TIME/CNN Poll: Obama Leads Romney in Florida

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Pablo Martinez Monsivais / AP

President Barack Obama speaks at a campaign event at Rollins College in Orlando, Fla, Aug. 2, 2012.

President Barack Obama has opened a narrow lead in Florida as Republicans gather in Tampa this week to nominate Mitt Romney, according to a new TIME/CNN/ORC poll. The survey also found the two candidates locked in a near tie in North Carolina ahead of the Democratic convention there next week.

Obama holds a 50%-46% over Romney among likely voters in Florida. In North Carolina, the two candidates are locked in a virtual dead heat, with Romney up 48%-47%. In both states, the poll, conducted from Aug. 22 to Aug. 26, has a margin of error of 3 percentage points.

Obama’s edge in Florida is bolstered by women voters, among whom he’s beating Romney 54%-42%, and by nonwhite voters, with whom he boasts a 70%-29% advantage. There are signs the incumbent is stitching together the same demographic coalitions that helped him capture Florida’s 29 electoral votes four years ago. Obama holds an eight-point lead among urban voters and a 13-point margin (54%-41%) with voters under 50. He also racks up 58% of self-identified “moderates” and manages to siphon off nearly one quarter of self-identified conservatives. In the sprawling, diverse Sunshine State, the President performs best in the Miami region, where he garners the support of 63% of respondents.

Romney holds a sizable advantage among white voters in Florida, 56%-38%, and in particular white men, with whom he leads 58%-37%. Despite Romney’s decision to select Paul Ryan, the architect of a plan to refashion Medicare into a voucher system, as his running mate, the GOP candidate holds a two-point lead among voters over 50, including a 51%-45% edge with those over 65. Romney has also piled up a 25-point cushion in northern Florida, the state’s most conservative region, and a 53%-45% edge among respondents earning more than $50,000 per year. The two candidates are virtually deadlocked among self-identified independent voters in this fall’s biggest battleground. In a state where Republican officials have been aggressively seeking out ineligible voters to purge from the rolls, Obama’s overall lead among registered voters swells to nine points.

Obama’s demographic advantage among nonwhite voters is keeping him competitive in North Carolina, a conservative state where he pulled off an upset four years ago. The President has the support of 84% of such voters in the TIME/CNN survey, along with 60% of respondents who reside in urban areas and 56% of those making under $50,000. Obama also garners 59% of the Tar Heel State’s self-described moderates. His strongest geographic regions are the eastern swath of the state and the affluent Raleigh region, a high-tech hub dotted with universities.

But a week before Democrats arrive at their national convention in Charlotte, there are signs that Obama faces an uphill battle to keep the state in his column. Romney boasts a 53%-40% lead among self-described independent voters. His 30-point lead among white voters includes a 12-point edge among white women, and he has amassed leads of 15% and 12%, respectively, among suburban and rural voters. Among respondents earning more than $50,000 per year, the Republican challenger has a 7-point lead, and he has opened a 15-point cushion among voters 50 and older.

In Florida, a total of 1,020 respondents, including 895 registered voters and 776 likely voters, were interviewed by telephone by ORC International from Aug. 22 to Aug. 26. In North Carolina, 1,019 respondents were surveyed on the same days, including 905 registered voters and 766 likely voters. The poll’s margin of error for both states is +/- 3 percentage points.

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Yeshuratnam
Yeshuratnam

The Poll result may not be accurate. Obama's previous slogan 'Change'has changed the country into deep economic recession and mammoth unemployment. The new slogan 'forward' is to move forward to destruction. This is quite obvious from international events. Taking advantage of Obama's weakness, Putin wants to revive the former Soviet union. Obama gave several billions of dollars to Mursi's Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood regime in Egypt has established close ties with Beijing and Tehran. Egypt is now emerging as another Iran and Mursi a new Khomeini. Obama's impotence can be seen from the bloodbath that is going on in Syria. Cameron and Sarkozy intervened at the right moment in Libya and saved thousands of lives. But Obama is totally indifferent to what is happening in Syria. If he is not prepared for direct intervention, he could have assisted Turkey and the rebels to topple Assad. As in the case of his hesitation to kill bin Laden, a Muslim leader next only to Mohammed the Prophet, Obama is not taking a bold decision to remove Assad, an arch enemy of the US. Second term for Obama will be disastrous for America and the world.  

expressionsofawoman1
expressionsofawoman1

What an amazing amount of pure DODO that was thrown in our faces LAST NIGHT AT THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION. I have gone through hundreds of ISSUES SOME REPUBLICANS have voted for in congress and not one vote so far THAT I HAVE REVIEWED benefited the poor or the middle class. Almost every vote ....rather they Voted -Yes or Voted - No benefited the RICH. ITS SEEMS LIKE THEY VOTE BY HOW MUCH LOBBYIST GIVE THEM FINANCIALLY. (THIS I FOUND TO BE TRUE ON BOTH SIDES BUT MORE ON THE REPUBLICANS SIDE) - Republicans think that we will just look at advertisements and listen to them talk and NO ONE in this Country they think are smart enough to LOOK at What they voted ON. Guess What.... Republicans in case you didnt know it....The Poor and The Middle class can Read and we understand what we read. We WILL VOTE ON WHAT YOU AND THE DEMOCRATS HAVE DONE FOR THIS COUNTRY.......PRESIDENT OBAMA MAY HAVE NOT UPHELD EVERYTHING HE PROMISED YETTTTTT....HOWEVER, THIS COUNTRY WAS IN A TERRIBLE MESS WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE AND WHAT WAS HANDED DOWN TO HIM TOOK EIGHT YEARS BY BUSH TO GET THERE.....AND IT WILL TAKE EIGHT YEARS OR MORE TO COME OUT OF THIS.....SO, WHEN YOU HAVE TO DECIDE ON THE TWO.... MY VOTE IS FOR SOMEONE WHO AT LEAST ATTEMPTS TO SHOW HE CARES AND HE DOES THIS BY THE BILLS THAT ARE PASSED!. WHEN I LOOK AT ROMNEY AND LISTEN TO HIM - I DONT FEEL SAFE....WHEN I LOOK AT ROMNEY AND LISTEN TO HIM - I DON'T FEEL LOVED...I FEEL WOW IF THIS MAN GETS IN OFFICE AMERICA YOU THINK WE HAVE A LARGE AMOUNT OF HOMELESS NOWWWWWW JUST WAIT! HE MADE A COMMENT ABOUT PEOPLE ON WELFARE SLICKLY REFERRING TO BLACK AMERICAN....HAS THIS MAN EVER READ THE STATS----DUMMY THERE ARE MORE WHITE FAMILIES RECEIVING WELFARE THAN BLACK AND HISPANICS....EVERYONE ON WELFARE AREN'T USERS OF DRUGS OR IGNORANT.... THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE WORKED ALL OF THEIR LIVES WHO ARE NOW GOING THROUGH A FINANCIAL TRIAL..... AND NEED SOME OF THE ASSITANCE FROM THE MONEY THE IRS TOOK OUT OF THEIR PAYCHECKS AND YOU WANT TO CALL THEM IN A SLICK KIND OF WAY......LAZYYYYYY GOOD FOR NOTHINGS......ROMNEY .....PEOPLE IN TODAY'S SOCIETY ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR WHO IS MORE LIKELY TO CONSIDER OF ALLLLLLL AMERICA NOT JUST THE RICH PART OF AMERICA AND THAT WOULD BE PRESIDENT OBAMA. REPUBLICANS YOU CAN NO LONGER PEEEEE ON US AND TRY TO CONVINCE US THAT WHAT WE SEE AND SMELL IS NOT PEEEEE BUT RAIN.

Guest
Guest

What an amazing amount of pure DODO that was thrown in our faces LAST NIGHT AT THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION. I have gone through hundreds of ISSUES SOME REPUBLICANS have voted for in congress and not one vote so far THAT I HAVE REVIEWED benefited the poor or the middle class. Almost every vote ....rather they Voted -Yes or Voted - No benefited the RICH. ITS SEEMS LIKE THEY VOTE BY HOW MUCH LOBBYIST GIVE THEM FINANCIALLY. (THIS I FOUND TO BE TRUE ON BOTH SIDES BUT MORE ON THE REPUBLICANS SIDE) - Republicans think that we will just look at advertisements and listen to them talk and NO ONE in this Country they think are smart enough to LOOK at What they voted ON. Guess What.... Republicans in case you didnt know it....The Poor and The Middle class can Read and we understand what we read. We WILL VOTE ON WHAT YOU AND THE DEMOCRATS HAVE DONE FOR THIS COUNTRY.......PRESIDENT OBAMA MAY HAVE NOT UPHELD EVERYTHING HE PROMISED YETTTTTT....HOWEVER, THIS COUNTRY WAS IN A TERRIBLE MESS WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE AND WHAT WAS HANDED DOWN TO HIM TOOK EIGHT YEARS BY BUSH TO GET THERE.....AND IT WILL TAKE EIGHT YEARS OR MORE TO COME OUT OF THIS.....SO, WHEN YOU HAVE TO DECIDE ON THE TWO.... MY VOTE IS FOR SOMEONE WHO AT LEAST ATTEMPTS TO SHOW HE CARES AND HE DOES THIS BY THE BILLS THAT ARE PASSED!. WHEN I LOOK AT ROMNEY AND LISTEN TO HIM - I DONT FEEL SAFE....WHEN I LOOK AT ROMNEY AND LISTEN TO HIM - I DON'T FEEL LOVED...I FEEL WOW IF THIS MAN GETS IN OFFICE AMERICA YOU THINK WE HAVE A LARGE AMOUNT OF HOMELESS NOWWWWWW JUST WAIT! HE MADE A COMMENT ABOUT PEOPLE ON WELFARE SLICKLY REFERRING TO BLACK AMERICAN....HAS THIS MAN EVER READ THE STATS----DUMMY THERE ARE MORE WHITE FAMILIES RECEIVING WELFARE THAN BLACK AND HISPANICS....EVERYONE ON WELFARE AREN'T USERS OF DRUGS OR IGNORANT.... THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE WORKED ALL OF THEIR LIVES WHO ARE NOW GOING THROUGH A FINANCIAL TRIAL..... AND NEED SOME OF THE ASSITANCE FROM THE MONEY THE IRS TOOK OUT OF THEIR PAYCHECKS AND YOU WANT TO CALL THEM IN A SLICK KIND OF WAY......LAZYYYYYY GOOD FOR NOTHINGS......ROMNEY .....PEOPLE IN TODAY'S SOCIETY ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR WHO IS MORE LIKELY TO CONSIDER OF ALLLLLLL AMERICA NOT JUST THE RICH PART OF AMERICA AND THAT WOULD BE PRESIDENT OBAMA. REPUBLICANS YOU CAN NO LONGER PEEEEE ON US AND TRY TO CONVINCE US THAT WHAT WE SEE AND SMELL IS NOT PEEEEE BUT RAIN.

Guest
Guest

What an amazing amount of pure DODO that was thrown in our faces LAST NIGHT AT THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION. I have gone through hundreds of ISSUES SOME REPUBLICANS have voted for in congress and not one vote so far THAT I HAVE REVIEWED benefited the poor or the middle class. Almost every vote ....rather they Voted -Yes or Voted - No benefited the RICH. ITS SEEMS LIKE THEY VOTE BY HOW MUCH LOBBYIST GIVE THEM FINANCIALLY. (THIS I FOUND TO BE TRUE ON BOTH SIDES BUT MORE ON THE REPUBLICANS SIDE) - Republicans think that we will just look at advertisements and listen to them talk and NO ONE in this Country they think are smart enough to LOOK at What they voted ON. Guess What.... Republicans in case you didnt know it....The Poor and The Middle class can Read and we understand what we read. We WILL VOTE ON WHAT YOU AND THE DEMOCRATS HAVE DONE FOR THIS COUNTRY.......PRESIDENT OBAMA MAY HAVE NOT UPHELD EVERYTHING HE PROMISED YETTTTTT....HOWEVER, THIS COUNTRY WAS IN A TERRIBLE MESS WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE AND WHAT WAS HANDED DOWN TO HIM TOOK EIGHT YEARS BY BUSH TO GET THERE.....AND IT WILL TAKE EIGHT YEARS OR MORE TO COME OUT OF THIS.....SO, WHEN YOU HAVE TO DECIDE ON THE TWO.... MY VOTE IS FOR SOMEONE WHO AT LEAST ATTEMPTS TO SHOW HE CARES AND HE DOES THIS BY THE BILLS THAT ARE PASSED!. WHEN I LOOK AT ROMNEY AND LISTEN TO HIM - I DONT FEEL SAFE....WHEN I LOOK AT ROMNEY AND LISTEN TO HIM - I DON'T FEEL LOVED...I FEEL WOW IF THIS MAN GETS IN OFFICE AMERICA YOU THINK WE HAVE A LARGE AMOUNT OF HOMELESS NOWWWWWW JUST WAIT! HE MADE A COMMENT ABOUT PEOPLE ON WELFARE SLICKLY REFERRING TO BLACK AMERICAN....HAS THIS MAN EVER READ THE STATS----DUMMY THERE ARE MORE WHITE FAMILIES RECEIVING WELFARE THAN BLACK AND HISPANICS....EVERYONE ON WELFARE AREN'T USERS OF DRUGS OR IGNORANT.... THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE WORKED ALL OF THEIR LIVES WHO ARE NOW GOING THROUGH A FINANCIAL TRIAL..... AND NEED SOME OF THE ASSITANCE FROM THE MONEY THE IRS TOOK OUT OF THEIR PAYCHECKS AND YOU WANT TO CALL THEM IN A SLICK KIND OF WAY......LAZYYYYYY GOOD FOR NOTHINGS......ROMNEY .....PEOPLE IN TODAY'S SOCIETY ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR WHO IS MORE LIKELY TO CONSIDER OF ALLLLLLL AMERICA NOT JUST THE RICH PART OF AMERICA AND THAT WOULD BE PRESIDENT OBAMA. REPUBLICANS YOU CAN NO LONGER PEEEEE ON US AND TRY TO CONVINCE US THAT WHAT WE SEE AND SMELL IS NOT PEEEEE BUT RAIN.

expressionsofawoman1
expressionsofawoman1

What an amazing amount of pure DODO that was thrown in our faces LAST NIGHT AT THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION. I have gone through hundreds of ISSUES SOME REPUBLICANS have voted for in congress and not one vote so far THAT I HAVE REVIEWED benefited the poor or the middle class. Almost every vote ....rather they Voted -Yes or Voted - No benefited the RICH. ITS SEEMS LIKE THEY VOTE BY HOW MUCH LOBBYIST GIVE THEM FINANCIALLY. (THIS I FOUND TO BE TRUE ON BOTH SIDES BUT MORE ON THE REPUBLICANS SIDE) - Republicans think that we will just look at advertisements and listen to them talk and NO ONE in this Country they think are smart enough to LOOK at What they voted ON. Guess What.... Republicans in case you didnt know it....The Poor and The Middle class can Read and we understand what we read. We WILL VOTE ON WHAT YOU AND THE DEMOCRATS HAVE DONE FOR THIS COUNTRY.......PRESIDENT OBAMA MAY HAVE NOT UPHELD EVERYTHING HE PROMISED YETTTTTT....HOWEVER, THIS COUNTRY WAS IN A TERRIBLE MESS WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE AND WHAT WAS HANDED DOWN TO HIM TOOK EIGHT YEARS BY BUSH TO GET THERE.....AND IT WILL TAKE EIGHT YEARS OR MORE TO COME OUT OF THIS.....SO, WHEN YOU HAVE TO DECIDE ON THE TWO.... MY VOTE IS FOR SOMEONE WHO AT LEAST ATTEMPTS TO SHOW HE CARES AND HE DOES THIS BY THE BILLS THAT ARE PASSED!. WHEN I LOOK AT ROMNEY AND LISTEN TO HIM - I DONT FEEL SAFE....WHEN I LOOK AT ROMNEY AND LISTEN TO HIM - I DON'T FEEL LOVED...I FEEL WOW IF THIS MAN GETS IN OFFICE AMERICA YOU THINK WE HAVE A LARGE AMOUNT OF HOMELESS NOWWWWWW JUST WAIT! HE MADE A COMMENT ABOUT PEOPLE ON WELFARE SLICKLY REFERRING TO BLACK AMERICAN....HAS THIS MAN EVER READ THE STATS----DUMMY THERE ARE MORE WHITE FAMILIES RECEIVING WELFARE THAN BLACK AND HISPANICS....EVERYONE ON WELFARE AREN'T USERS OF DRUGS OR IGNORANT.... THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE WORKED ALL OF THEIR LIVES WHO ARE NOW GOING THROUGH A FINANCIAL TRIAL..... AND NEED SOME OF THE ASSITANCE FROM THE MONEY THE IRS TOOK OUT OF THEIR PAYCHECKS AND YOU WANT TO CALL THEM IN A SLICK KIND OF WAY......LAZYYYYYY GOOD FOR NOTHINGS......ROMNEY .....PEOPLE IN TODAY'S SOCIETY ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR WHO IS MORE LIKELY TO CONSIDER OF ALLLLLLL AMERICA NOT JUST THE RICH PART OF AMERICA AND THAT WOULD BE PRESIDENT OBAMA. REPUBLICANS YOU CAN NO LONGER PEEEEE ON US AND TRY TO CONVINCE US THAT WHAT WE SEE AND SMELL IS NOT PEEEEE BUT RAIN.

superlogi
superlogi

If the CNN/TIME poll wouldn't have shown Barry in the lead, I'd be worried for Mitt's chances.  Fortunately, they've never let me down.

LK312
LK312

Unfortunately, none of these polls can really factor in the as-yet-to-be-determined restrictions in many swing states related to new voter i.d. laws and reduced early voting (either hrs per day, number of days or both).  I'm pretty sure that the Democrats are waiting until after the conventions and the return of the SCOTUS from recess to really go after the restrictions in the courts.  Expect them to argue several things, including the lack of sufficient time for implementation after any final ruling that goes against them, so that at least if they lose, it won't take effect until the next election.   

The unpredictability of the voter i.d. and early voting restrictions may be just as important as any margin of error in the current polls and more than enough to give voters and Dems a false sense that Obama will win easily in November.

forgottenlord
forgottenlord

Penn has a strong 3rd party candidate that pulls more R's than D's, Ohio's restrictions stand on shakier legal grounds (some have already been overturned), and Florida's attempts look like they'll affect double digit numbers at best (that's whole people).  If both home states are written off, which I think they are, Romney needs both Virginia and North Carolina and both have a strong possibility of going Obama and he needs at least one of Colorado and Iowa which I don't think he has (I don't think he has either).  So on the VERY off-chance that Republicans successfully steal Ohio (the only one I think they have a plausible chance at stealing), that still doesn't help the Republicans enough.

sacredh
sacredh

Not necessarily easily, but still win. Romney's path is an unlikely one. He has to come from behind in most of the swing states. I think it's more likely that Romney wins the popular vote and loses the electoral vote than it is for Obama to lose the election outright.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 Sacred, what makes you so confident, and how did you come up with this worst case scenario. At this time, I think it is anyone's "game". Romney has a TON of money. I am worried about the impact it could have on swing states. Although, I think and believe Obama as an incumbent, and a well liked one,  has a good chance to win. 

sacredh
sacredh

Nate Silver's FiveThirtyEight site. Nate is really good at statistical analysis. Romney has some huge leads in quite a few red states. Obama's margin is much smaller in many of the blue states. In the swing states though, Obama is leading in most of them even if the margin is fairly narrow. Obama only has to pick up a couple of the swing states. Romney almost has to run the table. I don't think Romney can do it.

Ohiolib
Ohiolib

If so, maybe we can actually get the electoral college reformed. God knows we need to. 

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

I think it is irrational that the Democrats appear to be waiting for a ruling in the voter I.D laws. They do not have a STRONG contingency plan in case it does not work out in their favor. They do not seem to have one, and worse still, it does not appear that they are vigorously pursuing efforts to obtain government issued I.d.'s for their constituents. 

I do not think  SCOTUS  will give them any concession-- I mean regarding postponing the effective date of the law. Did you see how SCOTUS hammered the Dems in the 2000 Bush v. Gore case? I do not think they will say the law should take effect next election. With Scalia and the other anti-Obama judges?? Hmmm... They are NUTS, and want Obama to lose.

So good luck to the Dems with expecting justice, regarding political matters from SCOTUS. It could happen, but it is a loooooooong shot!!

The Dems had better start getting I.D's for their constituents otherwise, those folks will NOT be allowed to vote . If they do not vote, then the Republicans will steal the States. Therefore, it is imperative for the Dems to do everything to get their constituents the proper I.d. per the law.

anaveragecitizen
anaveragecitizen

  Americans we should be doing something about the way our Government  opperates, especially when it comes to our voting choices.  REALLY! Who wants to be left with only two canidates to pick from.  Lets be honest here, Who do you think gets to decide which canadates get media coverage and which ones don't. If each canidate had equal media coverage ect. you can bet your backside that there would be more than the two sucky choices we have in front of us now. GO RON PAUL!!

forgottenlord
forgottenlord

Other polls have said similar things in the past.  I'll wait until we can solidly say this isn't an outlier before I start celebrating.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

Yes, I have to agree. I visit Conservative websites and their anger all over the country, including in Florida, could affect this election. No need to live in a bubble, a lot of work still needs to be done for Obama to win. The work continues!! 

However, as I keep asking, why is Mitt Romney saying he is Christian, and all the Evangelicals who have been screaming at us in church that Mormonism is the devil's religion, are suddenly quiet???

 And WHY has the Mormon church changed its website COMPLETELY-- to talk up Jesus to the skies --when they had stated on that same site some years ago that Christianity was an incomplete andf inferior Religion, unlike the book of Mormon.

And WHY have they deleted, from the website and other sites, the fundamental reason they are called LATTER DAY SAINTS??? Because, according to the book of Mormon, Christ has already come again, and fought the American Indians in Arizona. They say they have the swords and shield he left after he conquered the American Indians. Why is this now gone from the site?? Black faces on the site? bwahahaha... this is so funny-- it is crazy.

EVERYONE is entitled to believe anything, or believe nothing. This is a free country. However,  I have a BIG  problem with DELIBERATE  misrepresentation of  the TENETS OF ONE'S RELIGION for POLITICAL REASONS.

And I am irritated at many on the Christian Right, who are pretending that they have not SCREAMED for years, that Mormonism is a cult that disdains the Christian Jesus.

Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon religion said Christianity was incomplete and inferior, and the Garden of Eden was actually, according to him, in Missouri. And Father God lives on a planet near  the planet Kolob, with his wife.  So why have these facts been scrubbed off the BYU site, the Mormon webpage, and so many other online documents?

Wow!!!

forgottenlord
forgottenlord

I don't care.  Mormonism is one of the few religions I can respect.  They're one of the few religions that have gone out of their way to evolve with the times (and what really infuriates me is that people still rag on them about the policies they got rid of as they evolved) while at the same time, there are a lot of interesting ideas they add to the moral framework (such as a life without vice).  Compared to the Catholic Church, they're freaking saints.

So what if they've got weird ideas about Christ?  Does that really speak to the spirit of the religion?  Is that the central element that defines it?  Is Christianity really about Christ?  Or is it about Christ's teachings?  Religions are about spirituality and morality they push far before they are about the stories they tell.

I don't care whether a religion is a cult or not.  It doesn't matter whether it's Evangelicals or Mormons or Scientologists or Church of the Spaghetti Monster or Atheism - what you worship is irrelevant to what you believe (philosophically and morally speaking) and how you behave.

My problems with religious nut jobs is their need to shove their beliefs down our throats.  It's their inability to distinguish the Laws of God and the Laws of State and their inability to accept that everyone should have a right to sin and that their own bibles say that.

So let them not mention he's Mormon.  And who knows - it could be that they finally saw a Mormon and realized "well he's just a human being like the rest of us" - well, robot, but you get my point.  There was a fun article where someone was watching a primary debate with an evangelical and she spent the entire debate trying to figure out which one was the Mormon.  I like to think they stopped talking about it because they couldn't figure out who the sinner was on sight - and if they can't say that he's the weird different guy in 5 seconds, they stop worrying about it (which is why they still talk about the Muslim guy running against Romney).  Y'know, if Assad was running for POTUS (crimes against humanity aside), they'd probably stop worrying about Islam as well.

forgottenlord
forgottenlord

First: typing in all caps is the fastest way to lose someone's interest.  The only reason I didn't completely ignore you was because your other posts on this thread seem to provide extensive time and thought.

Second, I disagree with you about the level of hypocrisy that's there.  I don't really have a problem with the Mormon church deciding to modify what they use to sell themselves especially as they come under increasing scrutiny.  Even if it wasn't about the fact that they have a member who's gotten huge coverage now, simple marketing would say that these are things worth downplaying because they are kooky and would turn people off of your religion quickly.  Advertise the parts that people might actually find at the very least sensible if not outright appealing.

Technically, the Mormon church is a denomination of Christianity.  Christianity is, by its very definition, any religion that worships Christ.  Some sects of Christianity are more unusual than others and much further off base.  That doesn't make them less Christian any more than Obama is non-Christian just because he's Kenyan.

It makes even less sense for you to presume that such large numbers of people should stop supporting a particular candidate just because of his religion.  There is no test required of any Presidential Candidate that says the must believe the tenents of a central Christian religion and the entire concept of Religious Freedom started because the Evangelicals and Catholics had problems tolerating each other's interpretation of the bible - agreeing to disagree and found a nation that did not try to dictate either variation.  Can't you respect that a different religion believes different things?  And is there no value to the point I made that the question of whether Christ was reborn or the Garden of Eden was in Minnesota is far less important than the ethics and philosophies that the Mormon church preaches?  Should Isalmic and Judaic candidates be rejected on site simply because they do not recognize Jesus as the messiah?  Can't you respect what they do preach?

And really, does any of this matter that much?  It always amazes me how much effort people put in to worrying about other people's religion and other people's beliefs and saying how wrong they are.  Should you focus on what you believe, explain what you believe and explain why you believe it and let people decide whether to come to you?  Isn't the essence of a free and democratic society the idea that we spend our time presenting our beliefs and convincing others that it is worth implementing?  Shouldn't issues of heaven and hell and what they believe to be evil and not evil be up to the individual - so long as, in the process of conducting their efforts, they do not harm others?

How can we clarify the proper yard stick as to what is a cult and what is a religion?  After all, there was a time when Christianity was this crazy guy who claimed to be the son of God and his 12 disciples who were travelling around the Holy Land talking about a different way of living.  Whether he was or wasn't is irrelevant - when did it turn from a cult to a religion?  When Ceasar embraced it?  Would Mitt Romney being elected President vindicate Mormonism?

And quite frankly, it's not surprising that the Church would support Mitt Romney over Obama.  The Church focuses on Social issues and generally sides with the general position of the Republicans on those issues (with exception to helping the poor). In those respects, they generally agree with the Mormons.  So why wouldn't they support the guy who espouses their platform over the guy they disagree with?  The importance of where the Garden of Eden was doesn't really matter that much compared to whether you love your fellow man and follow the golden rule and belief that all life is sacred.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

f##ForgottenL: I DO NOT CARE WHETHER YOU RESPECT  THE MORMON RELIGION OR NOT. IF YOU HAD READ MY ENTIRE COMMENT, I MADE IT CLEAR THAT E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN RELIGIOUS BELIEF, ATHEISTS INCLUDED!!!!!!!!!!

HOWEVER, I AM RE-AFFIRMING MY INITIAL POSITION, IN MY ORIGINAL COMMENT THAT NO DENOMINATION SHOULD CHANGE OR HIDE THE POSITION AND BASIC TENETS OF THEIR SECT OR  FAITH,  FOR POLITICAL GAIN, AND OTHER PURPOSES, AS ROMNEY HAS DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS, OF WHICH I AM ONE, SHOULD NOT RALLY IN SUPPORT OF A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE FOR POLITICAL REASONS. SUCH ACTS ARE BLATANTLY HYPOCRITICAL, AND IN CONTRAST WITH THE CORE  BASIS OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH. 

I DO NOT CARE IN THE LEAST-IF YOU HAVE ANY, MANY OR NO RELIGIOUS BELIEFS-THAT IS YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE. HOWEVER, I WILL POINT OUT AS I PLEASE, THE FACT THAT THE MORMON RELIGION IS NOT CHRISTIANITY, ESPECIALLY WITH REGARD TO ITS PORTRAYAL IN THE POLITICAL DISCOURSE IN THIS ELECTION CYCLE.

 

I WILL CONTINUE TO CONDEMN THE ACTS OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH, A CHURCH THAT ENGAGED IN AN UNDERHANDED CAMPAIGN OF CALUMNY AGAINST PRESIDENT OBAMA, AND HAS (TO DATE) NOT OFFICIALLY ACKNOWLEDGED HIS CHRISTIAN FAITH, BUT IS NOW SUPPORTING MITT ROMNEY, A MORMON,  THE SAME MORMON RELIGION THEY HAD LONG STATED WAS ANTI-CHRISTIAN AND TOXIC.

THE ACTION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAR RIGHT AND EVANGELICALS, IS IMPROPER, UNJUSTIFIED AND INEQUITABLE. THERE IS LITTLE RATIONALE FOR THE POSITION THEY HAVE ELECTED TO TAKE IN THIS ELECTION, IN THEIR SUPPORT OF ROMNEY.

FURTHERMORE,  I WILL CONTINUE TO POINT OUT THE DIFFERENCES THAT EXIST BETWEEN CHRISTIANITY AND MORMONISM, AND WILL NOT RELENT IN DESCRIBING THE POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC PRACTICES OF THE MORMON CHURCH-- AND WILL EXPOSE THE PRACTICES AND BELIEFS  THEY HAVE CHOSEN TO OBFUSCATE FOR POLITICAL GAIN, TO BENEFIT MITT ROMNEY. 

WHEN YOU SEE MY POSTS ON MORMONISM, CHRISTIANITY AND ROMNEY, SCROLL PAST THEM- BECAUSE I WILL CONTINUE TO ADDRESS AND ANALYZE RELATED POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS OF MORMON FAITH AND THE ACTIONS OF THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT, WITH UNRELENTING V-I-G-O-R AND Z-E-A-L.

rokinsteve
rokinsteve

I've studyed philosophy and religion in my spare time for over 40 years and I'm sure glad I skipped Mormonism.  It reads like bad science fiction.  And I agree with you that the evangelicals are holding their tongues hoping Mitt gets elected. 

nflfoghorn
nflfoghorn

Hey, if you want more SF Scientology's HQ is in Clearwater, across the bay from Tampa.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 It is so hypocritical since many shrill Evangelicals  are very anti-Mormon. God help these fake Far Right Freaks. They make the rest of us Christians look bad.

nflfoghorn
nflfoghorn

All things being relative, even RCP shows that if FL and OH go BO's way the election is his.  Momney has to run the table on swing states electoral vote-wise.  If he loses even one of the five,* show's over.  

______

*OH, FL, MI, PA and VA for the sake of my argument.

forgottenlord
forgottenlord

BTW: anyone find it hilarious that Mark Halpern wrote a summary of the feelings in Chicago and seemed almost shocked that they came to the conclusion that we've pretty much all independently come to here in Swamp?

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

Hey forgotten,

I can't link to respond to your other  remark.  So I have responded here. I will do this fast because I have a few miles to run, and have to leave in a few.   

 Okay, let me repeat my point.  The issue you are focusing on is religious tolerance, which is not the point I am making. This is the reason I declared in the body of my original remark that  anyone was free to believe or not believe whatsoever they chose! The issue you have focused on, which is religious tolerance is a good one, but it is completely unrelated to the thrust or basis for my posts on this issue.

Supporting the Republican platform is different from a complete shift of the Evangelical Far Right to supporting a Romney, and consequently, changing their political views for POLITICAL reasons.  Support the Social issues in the Republican party, but do not lie and lie in order to explain a shift in position, as shift that is starkly partisan, and not motivated in the least by any iota of religious tolerance by the Far Right!! That is my position. And it will not change.   

I will continue to point out the stark differences between the Mormon Church and Christianity with unrelenting frequency, and will also continue to address the hypocrisy of the Christian Right, as long as they seek to justify their partisan support with reasons that are totally fabricated and false.

Again, let me restate that this issue is not whether the Church agrees with the positions of the Republican party on social issues. The issue is that they have shifted their position radically, in support of a Republican candidate based on an assertion of a religious position, a position that is totally partisan and based on more insidious motives.  

 I do not if you are Christian (I do not care what anyone believes or does not, as I stated, atheists have a right to their own views too) ,  or whether you have heard or read the Evangelical position of the issue.  But, Christ is considered the Son of God, in my faith. He was not a man who became God. He is not dwelling in human form on a planet either. The church needs to be CONSISTENT in its

positions. If they support the Republican Party on SOCIAL ISSUES, that is different from supporting a candidate based on a fabricated premise that is patently false.

So, I will continue to rebut the new claims by my Evangelical brethren that Mormonism is Christianity, not because Mormonism is not a religion in its own right, but because the Evangelical shift, to me, is partisan, hypocritical and unsupportable.

If  Obama were a Mormon, and at the top of the Republican ticket, I doubt that the Evangelicals would support him, and  suddenly claim that his religion was now a Christian denomination.   

ForgottenL, your point is so noted, and I do not agree with you, and probably will not ever do so.  I will just end it here, at least for me.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 Halperin is a Far Right wing Republican. You know, the guy who called Obama a d***k on Morning Joe.  Yes, that was the word he used. :(

sacredh
sacredh

The bubble that somehow rises to the top in the bathtub?

anon76returns
anon76returns

Halperin lives and breathes in the bubble.  Thinking outside of the bubble is definitely shocking to him.

sacredh
sacredh

Who is Mark Halprin?

forgottenlord
forgottenlord

He doesn't need Michigan or Penn

My 5 trade Colorado for Michigan, and North Carolina for Pennsylvania.  I assume he's already lost Penn and both home states.  Really, if Ohio goes, the other 3 are already gone anyways.

Really, it comes down to Virginia, Florida and Ohio (with NC as the wildcard) - but by that point, it might already be over if he doesn't carry one of WI, Colorado, Michigan or Iowa.  Assuming New Hampshire and Nevada are written off - which I think they are.

He can afford to lose Florida (and Nevada and NH), but then he can only lose Iowa (for a win) or Colorado (for a tie).  OR he can lose Ohio or Virginia but he absolutely has to carry both of the others and both home states.  I don't see that scenario happening.

Basically, he's still got a number of paths to victory, but they're all longshots.

sacredh
sacredh

Sorry I posted before I read the whole thread. I feel basically the same. I'm not including PA because I don't think it's in play.

deconstructiva
deconstructiva

I'd add WI and NC to the mix, but OH and FL definitely are the game changers ...again.

nflfoghorn
nflfoghorn

If they say the same in late October, you're in.

Ohiolib
Ohiolib

No wonder R's are worried about non-WASPs voting. 

Yamanoor Srihari
Yamanoor Srihari

I think letting Romney talk more and more is the key here. He is boring as scat, and the debates are going to be an uphill battle for him - if he throws in any stupid platitudes or pulls more birther jokes, that will be the end of it...that said, if Obama wants to be elected again, he needs to campaign much, much harder, as if he has everything to lose. He should think of everything from Wi, to Ohio, NC and Florida as his to lose. 

Walter Prout
Walter Prout

In the end, It won't matter who wins the election !

AMERICA and it's citizens will suffer and the damage that's already done is irreversible!

Were no longer on a Roller-coaster ride to hell, it's a Non-Stop Train Wreak without any stops ! 

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 You need to drink less coffee, and stay out of the sun. You are way too hyper.

Walter Prout
Walter Prout

Do you really have something INTELLIGENT to voice here ?

Or are you one of them TROLLING ARSEKISSERS ?

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 Walter, since you are the PRESIDENT of the TROLLING ARSEKISSERS  you are asking about, and chief messenger of the  Nutty doomsday prophets, I am amazed you do not know that I am not one of your members. bwahahaha 

And emm your intelligence is evidenced in the invective you just spewed without reason on "Outsider2011". I see no reason for the vulgarity. Wow!!  

I think you need to put down the pills, and get off the ledge, there is no need to jump. It is not the end of the world. It is an election, you know, a democratic process.  Gossshhhhhh :)

enoughisenough218
enoughisenough218

I read one of your prior posts and I do not believe that you are either benevolent or a lawyer.  I do believe you are well under age 55; it shows in your posts.  It is very evident, despite your posting to the contrary, that you have not read Obama's Healthcare act; nor have you read the Romney/Ryan plan.  Most importantly, if your are under 55, your vote for Obama will do nothing but require you to continue to pay into a failed program from which you will never benefit.  You and your friends should be screaming in the streets for what this administration has done and continues to do to you. 

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

##Enoughisenough218:- I have had ENOUGH of your Rants (pun intended), Jeez, you need to loosen up, you sound a tad unhinged . 

Anyway, I will humor myself by responding to your remark, a remark  I would ordinarily have considered absolutely asinine, and unworthy of any modicum of attention from me.

 Firstly, today, most of my posts have been light hearted and fun, I have had a nice day. Consequently, your rush to judgment and your wild conjecture, probably based on your perusal of a few of my mirth filled comments, is indicative of your lack of intellectual depth, or maybe it shows a mental limitation of sorts. Either way,  your comment is inane.  

Secondly, your remarks about my profession are baseless and unwarranted. Suffice it to say that I am not in the habit of proving the extent of my intellectual achievements- to nameless pseudonyms on a webpage.

I am grateful that I was blessed with the intellectual ability and discipline  to pursue a profession that I love, and I have worked very hard to get the ALL the advanced law degrees I possess.

However, I doubt that you know, or will ever have an opportunity to interact in real time with anyone as lettered as I am. And if that last sentence sounds malevolent, it was intended to be!

Lastly, you sound like the typical Far Right wing angry ogre who has lost sight of the fact that the issues at stake in this election,  are based on differences in ideology. People like you have converted this election into a war against the president of this country, an attack against minorities like women, a constant stoking of racial divides and a monastic dedication to lashing out at other folks, in the manner you have done to me in your comment.

Confucius  said about folks like me  "He with whom neither slander that gradually soaks into the mind, nor statements that startle like a wound in the flesh, are successful may be called intelligent indeed."

Get lost.   :)

forgottenlord
forgottenlord

I hesitate to ask this because I don't want to put that much energy into a debate  right now, but I'm curious because your statement gives no hints: why?

Walter Prout
Walter Prout

Sorry, YOU, don't deserve an answer !

Now, your going to come back with some stupid remark that everyone likes and that's your point to all this, right ?

The way I see it, I have a voice to say what I feel and if you don't like it, STFU REMF !

outsider2011
outsider2011

 Someone needs a nap

Walter Prout
Walter Prout

10 likes for such a stupid remark to my comment, What an ARSEHOLE !

STFU REMF !

nflfoghorn
nflfoghorn

Dude - there's this new drug called Xanax....

Walter Prout
Walter Prout

Interesting !

Studies have shown that people who take more naps, like you say, are more Intelligent then the ones who don't !

So, what's you excuse ? Or are you just TROLLING ?

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 Your comment sounded hysterical. So our suggestions are meant to help you calm down, and think rationally. This is not the doomsday Church. It is Swampland.

LogicLoop
LogicLoop

 I would be interested to hear what he thinks to solution is though? Should we just give up and go wait for the sweet embrace of death?

nflfoghorn
nflfoghorn

Sounds like he had a come-to-Jesus moment and expects the world to end any day now.

MrObvious
MrObvious

Walter

Lets be honest here - you don't like what's going on politically and I agree.

But you're asking for a self fulfilling prophecy where all inaction changes nothing.

Pick a party and work to change it the way you like it to be. That's all I can say.

LogicLoop
LogicLoop

That isnt totally true, ive seen many discussions on this board (minus ones involving rusty or paulie) that are substantive and broadened my viewpoint. Also, you posted that on a message board,  I was giving you a chance to expound on your statement. If it doesnt matter why engage us at all?

Walter Prout
Walter Prout

Why should it matter to you or anyone else what I say ?

Frankly, you could care less if what I say is the Truth or a Lie because your going to believe whatever you want to believe in, MORON !