From the Woodward Files: An Afghanistan Rationale

We hear a lot of rationales for the ongoing war in Afghanistan. One is is that we’re flushing out al Qaeda. Another is that we’re defending the stability of Pakistan. Then there’s the argument that we simply can’t accept defeat because it would have consequences beyond the immediate region–ones that would “resonate throughout the Islamic World,” as Bruce Riedel, the man who led President Obama’s first Afghanistan review in early 2009, put it last year.

I’ve never heard this position, similar to one that conservatives often made about Iraq a few years ago, invoked by the Obama White House. But according to Bob Woodward, it was at least a factor during the White House’s fall debate which led to an increase of 30,000 troops to the conflict. Woodward writes that, in early October, Obama’s top national security officials met to discuss American objectives. Woodward writes that Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who favored a robust troop escalation, argued for the imperative of winning for its own sake. “Gates said that they had to realize that Afghanistan carried a unique symbolism for the jihadist movement. ‘This was where the jihad was born’”–a reference to the mujahideen–including a young Osama bin Laden–who drove out the Soviets in the late 1980s. Woodward continues:

The logic went like this: A victory for the Taliban counted as a victory for al Qaeda, so the U.S. couldn’t walk away from Afghanistan….

[Deputy director of national intelligence] Peter Lavoy went back to his usual argument, “Were the Taliban perceived to be winning in Afghanistan, that would be a boost to militants worldwide.”

There’s little doubt that’s the case–Islamic radicals would be overjoyed to see the Taliban drive out the U.S. and take over Afghanistan. But victory for its own sake, as a matter of symbolism and propaganda, has never been an explicit part of Obama’s rationale. Perhaps Obama rejects this particular line of thought–I haven’t read the entire book yet. But it’s clear that some of his most senior advisors embrace it.

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  • afguy

    …consequences beyond the immediate region–ones that would “resonate throughout the Islamic World,”
    .
    Oh, God, another variation on the “Domino Effect”.
    .
    I guess this is an example of “Green Technology” in our foreign policy – re-cycling of old theories.

  • destor23

    At what point did the mission creep from “capture Bin Laden and his people” to “occupy the country?”

    If we had captured or killed bin Laden we would have been free, from a victory standpoint, to leave at any time.

  • centfan

    “I’ve never hear[d] this position, similar to one that conservatives often made about Iraq a few years ago, invoked by the Obama White House.”
    -
    Well that’s probably because the Obama White House knows the American people would never give him or any other President in the conceivable future all the tools required to “win” in Afghanistan, a “win” that could not be denied by friend or foe… Not 500,000 troops, not an invasion of Pakistan, not 3 trillion dollars to turn Kabul into Atlanta East.
    -
    What depth of this logic is still a mystery to you Michael? You cover politics day in and day out…

  • michaelfury

    Where in his book does Mr. Woodward discuss the natural gas pipelines, Mr. Crowley?

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/the-gas-must-flow/

  • afguy

    Our objectives in that part of the world have always been more or less of a “template” quality – there’s just a big blank where the objective is (with some cellophane to write on, to hide the erasures) so we can “alter” the goals as the domestic political situation warrants.

  • afguy

    Of course, the “unspoken” one is the “ELEPHANT in the room” – security for future O – I – L sources.
    .
    Shhhhh…. let’s just keep it between you and me… it’s supposed to be a secret.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “Islamic radicals would be overjoyed to see the Taliban drive out the U.S. and take over Afghanistan.”
    .
    So what? WGAS whether they are happy or not?
    .
    Worrying about “symbolism” might be the most disgusting reason yet for this waste of blood and treasure.

  • afguy

    P-NNTO,
    .
    “Symbolism” is serious stuff when it’s not THEIR a$$e$ getting shot at.
    .
    For the actually-deployed military fighting force, just trying to get home in one piece… not so much of a concern.
    .
    You think THIS might be part of the problem regarding suicides… that the troops realize that they are increasingly dying over political “symbolism”?

  • newfreedomblog

    The entire progressive agenda is to stop anything at all which looks like, sounds like, or even smells like neo-Colonialism.
    .
    Most progressives like Barack Obama abhor the thought that we as a country would invade another country, period. This leads them directly down the path most countries in the world have traveled through out history. They do not want their hands involved in any of this, and the real reason we have seen his policies in Afghanistan which make no military sense what-so-ever. Nor, can most Americans grasp what it is he is trying to do.
    .
    However, in this specific case and that of Iraq, we were fighting an enemy which are and continue to be a threat to our own national security. But, the rose colored glasses wearing progressives can only see it as more neo-Colonialism.
    .
    Invading another country is a nightmare to progressives. The nightmares of colonization of other third world countries like Kenya, Indonesia, India, and other Third World countries around the world will cause any good progressive to cringe. However, the War against Terrorism is not a neo-Colonial war, nothing at all like it. But, in the feeble minded progressive, they only see our occupation of these countries as more take over of third world countries in order to exploit the people and their resources for our own use.
    .
    This is evidenced by the previous statement made above by michaelfury. Michael is a full-blown progressive. He is anti-anything which may look like the old days of colonialism.
    .
    So progressives like Obama, and michaelfury rebel against anything which might look like, smell like, or even tastes like colonialism.
    .
    This is why under Obama, this war in Afghanistan will never succeed. We will continue to see our soldiers die because they lack the orders to go in and complete the mission as any prudent warrior would do in a battle, and then get out.
    .
    Obama has taken his community organizing theories, and put them on the battlefield. He is not interested in killing the enemy. He is more interested in organizing more progressives for his future one world order. The global governance which progressives pine for on a daily basis.

  • destor23

    I won’t tell a soul, afguy.

  • afguy

    We will continue to see our soldiers die because they lack the orders to go in and complete the mission as any prudent warrior would do in a battle, and then get out.
    .
    Got news for you, Rusty, old whatever…
    .
    Soldiers die even WITH orders… I have the suspicion even YOU can’t really express what the h*ll you think we are trying to do there now.. that is, define what YOU mean by “win”.
    .
    Another question… do you and Sister Sarah share the same writing coach?
    .
    Your “word salad” above seems to be heavy on celery, light on other vegetables with some actual nutritional content and taste.

  • newfreedomblog

    Because you are simply too stupid to understand big words does not mean I have to put it down in elementary language for you to understand, afguy.
    .
    Here is some plain English for you. Go jump in a lake.

  • afguy

    Here is some plain English for you. Go jump in a lake.
    .
    I can swim, Rusty, so that won’t be a problem for me.
    .
    Care to join me? The water’s a little cool but manageable.
    .
    Do you ever worry that, if you ever got into a fight and someone beat the sh!t out of you, there’s be nothing left but a pair of shoes?
    .
    There’s really not much to you character-wise, is there?

  • newfreedomblog

    “there’s be nothing left but a pair of shoes?
    .
    There’s really not much to you character-wise, is there?

    .
    You truly are in need of some type of mental health my friend, afguy. I would highly recommend it.

  • newfreedomblog

    Oh and if you are sane and somewhat normal, I would also recommend an English class, probably remedial English. That way when you attempt to insult someone, you don’t come off looking worse than the person who you are attempting to insult.
    .
    Just saying is all.

  • afguy

    Oh, I’m not worried about a character comparison with you, Rod-less.
    .
    Matter of fact, given the general reputation you have around here, I’d welcome it. Not much wide-spread support for an amoral loud-mouth among the Swampcritters, from what I’ve seen.
    .
    In fact, I’m pretty sure my cocker spaniel would come out ahead of you in a character poll… and he’s been dead about 5 years.

  • newfreedomblog

    Whatever, afguy. People like you are a dime a dozen around here.
    .
    Here’s a quarter, call someone who cares.

  • apr2563

    Neo-Colonialism is the new right wing meme. Ever since Gingrich attempted to tie President Obama to his father’s anti-colonialism, implying this was somehow unamerican, they have been on this rant.
    Somehow colonialism has now become a good thing.
    No logic, no historical perspective, just follow the craziest leader.
    .
    My remote touched down on Beck’s show yesterday. He was doing one of his blackboard lectures (which Jon Stewart so brilliantly mocks). He was illustrating how Obama’s mother was anti-colonial and his step father was a captalist. His mother sent him to Hawaii to get him away from his step-fathers beliefs. His grandparents insured he met up with some commies.
    .
    At this point my living room was filling with the Beck stench and I switched channels. He obviously never read Dreams from My Father or chose to ignore the facts.
    .
    Long live the colonialists like our founding fathers. The revolution was just a misbegotten war.

  • newfreedomblog

    Oh well heck, april2563, please do tell us your version or is it the libtard talking points version of Obama’s book, “Dreams FROM My Father”
    .
    Enlighten us april, put it all out there for everyone to comment.
    .
    Do you dispute that what Obama was writing about was what he took from the legacy of his father all wrapped up in a shiny little box of memories from some old communist / socialist anti-colonialist?

  • herby002

    7.8 – new,

    Did you read the book?

    You seem to know what’s in it, so april shouldn’t have to tell you what is in it.

    If you didn’t, you’re just spouting your handlers’ right-wing rhetoric without checking whether what they/you say is in the book is in the book.

    Did you read the book?

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    Since when is colonialism a good thing? The Founding Fathers were anti-colonial. Gandhi was anti-colonial.
    .
    Oh that’s right. The Newt-ster said Obama is anti-colonial, so colonialism must be good.

  • apr2563

    Thanks for asking the question herby002. I read it as a lyrical book of self discovery. The right has spent a lot of effort defining President Obama in order to delegitimize him. The only words they absorb is from their own echo chamber.

  • herby002

    8.1 – apr2563

    I’m still waiting for answers from him.

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