Why a Pacific War Is Possible: The Dangerous Hatred Between China and Japan

Memories of massacres, sex slaves and millions dead

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Kyodo / Reuters

Three of the disputed East China Sea islands, called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China, in a photo taken in September 2012

From the long-distance perspective of an American, Asia looks like one of the world’s most peaceful places. And it is — for the moment. But when Vice President Joe Biden arrived in Tokyo on Monday, he stepped into what has suddenly become a dangerous diplomatic crisis between China and Japan. On the surface, it’s a dull dispute over a string of uninhabited Pacific islands. Underneath, as I realized on a recent visit to China, it’s a story reaching back some 75 years that involves war, brutality, rape and historical reckoning. And now threatens to drag in the U.S.

The immediate cause of the crisis is Beijing’s recent declaration of an air-defense zone over the disputed islands, a string of rocks about 200 miles southeast of China’s coast, not far from Taiwan. No one will ever vacation on the islands, but there’s a good incentive to claim them, given that they sit in an area of the Pacific that may contain enough oil to fuel China for 45 years.

Far more than a story about energy, however, this is a story about national pride and historical grievance. The showdown over the islands — whose very name the two countries disagree about: China calls them the Diaoyu and Japan the Senkaku — touches one of the most sensitive nerves in Chinese culture: the Japanese occupation of China from 1937 to ’45.

“It may be hard for you to understand,” an expert at Beijing’s Academy of Military Science told me in October, echoing several others to whom I spoke. “The nationalist feeling, the emotion toward Japan, is very strong.”

(MORE: Forget Trade Talks, Biden Is in East Asia to Stop a Potential War)

It’s true that China has been flexing its muscles in recent years, by many accounts “bullying” regional neighbors like the Philippines and Vietnam. That’s one reason for the Obama Administration’s “pivot to Asia” strategy. But the rivalry between Beijing and Tokyo is much deeper, and darker.

Americans tend to think of World War II’s Pacific theater as a fight between the U.S. and Japan in places like Midway and Okinawa, lasting from 1942 to the atomic bombs of 1945. But for China, practically speaking, there was no “world” war — only a brutal invasion and occupation by Japan that began more than four years before Pearl Harbor. That fight cost 20 million Chinese lives, and included some of the worst atrocities of the entire war in the now infamous city of Nanjing, where up to 300,000 Chinese were massacred.

Few people with clear memories of those years are still alive today. But China has not forgotten. One Beijing-based American blogger calls the subject of Japan’s wartime conduct “radioactive … capable of eliciting such white-hot rage from seemingly normal people.” A few years ago, TIME’s then Beijing correspondent Matthew Forney captured how that rage is sustained:

Chinese kids can be forgiven for thinking Japan is a nation of “devils,” a slur used without embarrassment in polite Chinese society. They were raised to feel that way, and not just through cartoons. Starting in elementary school children learn reading, writing and the “Education in National Humiliation.” This last curriculum teaches that Japanese “bandits” brutalized China throughout the 1930s and would do so today given half a chance. Although European colonial powers receive their share of censure, the main goal is keeping memories of Japanese conquest fresh. Thousands of students each day, for instance, take class trips to the Anti-Japanese War Museum in Beijing to view grainy photos of war atrocities—women raped and disemboweled, corpses of children stacked like cordwood. As one 15-year-old girl in a blue and yellow school uniform, Ji Jilan, emerged from a recent visit to the gallery, she told a TIME correspondent: “After seeing this, I hate Japanese more than ever.”

Compounding the anger is a sense that Japan has never truly never reckoned with its atrocities the way Germany did after World War II. Japanese officials have issued statements of remorse over the years, but it’s typical to hear the Chinese say Japan has never really admitted to, or apologized for, its actions. China especially resents Japan’s lack of public contrition about the thousands of sex slaves known as “comfort women.”

(MORE: China’s Restriction on Airspace Over Disputed Islets Could Lead to War)

Japanese officials inflame these wartime wounds every time they visit a notorious shrine to the country’s war dead that includes 14 wartime leaders convicted as war criminals by an allied tribunal; a government-linked Chinese newspaper recently described one such visit as an “attempt to deny and glorify the militarism and history of aggression.” Further stoking China’s paranoia is Japan’s recent move away from its postwar pacifist stance and toward a more potent military: “It is one of the greatest concerns for China if Japan tries to revise its constitution and have a normal military force,” said the military-academy expert.

Japan’s recent militarization is driven, in part, because the feeling is mutual: polling shows that the animus in Japan toward China runs about as high as it does on the other side of the East China Sea. The “unfavorable feelings” of each side toward the other runs poisonously above 90%. It’s certainly hard to argue that China has done anything to Japan comparable to the 1937–45 occupation. But one scholar on Sino-Japanese relations argues the animus is about envy and anxiety toward the roaring Chinese dragon:

… with its economic miracle stunted and political reform stagnating, many Japanese politicians played to nationalist groups in order to boost national confidence and win popular votes. While pacifism and the Japanese feeling of war guilt used to keep anti-Chinese nationalism marginal, the old culture has gradually faded, much due to people’s anxiety about an increasingly powerful and assertive China in East Asia.

How does all this affect the U.S.? In part because a conflict between Asia’s two great economic powers could be a disaster for the global economy; but also because of America’s security treaty with Japan, which, in return for basing rights, guarantees the U.S. will defend Japan against attack. And while Washington has not taken an official position on the sovereignty of the disputed islands, it does, somewhat confusingly, consider them covered by the security pact — a fact not appreciated by China, which is already wary about America’s intentions in the region.

“It just seems absurd that the U.S. would commit itself to the defense of a few small islands that it has no position about,” the military-academy expert told me. Most Americans would likely agree — if they even understood what the fuss was about to begin with.

MORE: China and Japan May Not Like Each Other, but They Need Each Other

176 comments
mrdromologist
mrdromologist

To all the xenophobes in this comments section on both the Chinese and Japanese side of the equation: I'd just like to take this moment to tell you all to your faces that you're disgusting. Because of the cultural environment you help maintain, destruction will flare again and again, that innocent people will die because of the example that people like you set, because you feel that you have to obsess over the past so as to make yourselves look and feel like a big man. And leaders on both sides of the conflict, who don't care about anything resembling "justice" but about maintaining their own power base, will absolutely see in your hatred a golden opportunity to justify whatever atrocities they may have in mind.

You can go droning on and on about how "X are devils," "Y has to pay," but at the end of the day, you are part of the problem when you cannot let go of history. You are condemning your children, your grandchildren, and their children to a future of war and horror when you spew your racist garbage. Get your head out your asses.

Butter333
Butter333

All that needs to be said has been said. Japan has not yet paid the price for it's crimes and refuses to even acknowledge them. They've stained world history.

RobertNguyen
RobertNguyen

War is inevitable due to the deep hatred for Japan from the Chinese people. 

Chinese generals want to settle the scores with Japan, but little that they know that their dangerous behaviors in Asia have caused a great roar against their country. The economy will tank as the people of the world realized that they can no longer support the militaristic, expansionism China who does not good from bad; looking forward instead of backward to the dark days of history. Japan is and will scrub the Article 9 of their Constitution and rearm and at the end of this China - watch out !!!

OldFenrir
OldFenrir

I completely agree with the below statement. After all, wasn't it the U.S government that allowed monsters, such as Hiro Ishi, to escape? Remember the comfort women camps, the Unit 731 camps in Manchuria? Remember those 10 year old girls, vivisected alive, without any anaesthetics, who were seen as subhumans? I would honestly love to see China get back at the Japanese people. Japan is filled with anime-obsessed, perverts, who have a tiny little defence force, with obsolescent F-15s from the 1970s... They would be no match for China. Japan is a parasite, which demonizes its only ally, the United States in its own school system. Karma can be a bitch.


Read more: China-Japan Hatred Could Lead to Conflict | TIME.com http://swampland.time.com/2013/12/02/why-a-pacific-war-is-possible-china-and-japan-despise-each-other/#ixzz2rPMoO9GU

AuricGoldfinger
AuricGoldfinger

unlike Germany which apologized for it's wartime atrocities, and made reparations. Japan never has, in fact in you ever look at their government issued school textbooks, it whitewashes alot of history and denies any of the artocities they committed, eg: Pearl Harbor was done in self defense etc etc... pure lies!
Edit (in 6 minutes)


Read more: China-Japan Hatred Could Lead to Conflict | TIME.com http://swampland.time.com/2013/12/02/why-a-pacific-war-is-possible-china-and-japan-despise-each-other/#ixzz2r5wVXsET

ThisAngryAmerican
ThisAngryAmerican

The chinese are small and petty people, and they wonder why the world doesn't respect them, and hold Japan up higher. Their worse nightmare is about to happen. Japan will scrap Article 9 of their constitution and rearm. 


My money is on Japan because for the past 75 years, the Japanese have done more to contribute to the world than the chinese have. The only thing the chinese done is becoming the poster child for corruption, theft, tainted milk, glow in the dark meat, bad constructions that killed more people than the earth quake, I could go on. These are godless people with very little concept of good and bad. If china does go to war with Japan, they surely will lose. This is not the 13th century anymore. The small and petty people need to wake up and be something positive if not for themselves.

SteveWalser
SteveWalser

Given that the Chinese government continues to stoke anti Japanese animus of the most vile sort among its populace, if I were Japanese I would be doing everything I could to ensure Japan engaged in a serious and rapid build up of its armed forces.

I traveled extensively in China and was shocked by the venomous characterization of the Japanese promoted by state TV and how eagerly it was lapped up by the general public. Many Chinese citizens told me how much they hated the Japanese. 

War is coming. By design or by accident is not known but the Japanese should operate under the assumption that war is coming and they may be on their own when it comes. The Chinese strategy will be to separate the Americans from the Japanese and take on the Japanese alone. Given the "leadership" Americans are now electing, they may well succeed.

CesarBorgia
CesarBorgia

Can the US get back to full employment by selling arms to both sides?

GuoLiang
GuoLiang

History or not, it's basically a non-issue over a few tiny rocks. For nationalists on both sides, let me share a bit of wisdom I've learned from living in the West (I am Chinese-American).


Our enemy is not each other, it is the left-wing, liberal forces of the West that would destroy both Asian countries from the inside out. The most dangerous thing is not each other's armies, but the ideological pressures from the West. When your country is full of traitors calling for multiculturalism and feminism under the guise of "tolerance" or "equality", then you will realize just how trivial our national rivalry has been. 

daved87
daved87

Well if you're interested in the truth to why it's so controversial..

Japan signed those islands over to China back in 1945 when it accepted the Potsdam declaration (and through that the Cairo declaration).

The specific clauses being -
Japan shall be stripped of all islands she has seized or occupied in the Pacific since the beginning of World War I in 1914.

and

All the territories Japan has taken from China such as Manchuria (Dongbei), Formosa (Taiwan), and the Pescadores (Penghu), shall be restored to the Republic of China.


Technically, this shouldn't even be a controversy.. It's not our fault Japan lost the war (well actually...heh)

jksomma
jksomma

Ok a few small islands.  What happens when (not if) mainland China invades Taiwan?

TonyBarnes
TonyBarnes

when will china stop being cry babies? they should really be talking about MAO and the 80 million people of China that he killed. they should see a comparison between what they did to tibet and what japan did to them. The CCP is one of the biggest mass killers in history. Japan was punished for its sins. When will the CCP be punished. Forced abortions, labor camps. the rape of Tibet, all brought to you buy the CCP. I hope japan sinks there navy and destroys their ai rforce. Its time to free Tibet and the world of the CCP

Not-JelloBiafra
Not-JelloBiafra

Be very afraid Japan. Very afraid. They still remember what you did to their people. Patience is a tree with bitter roots that bears sweet fruits. 

RobertNguyen
RobertNguyen

Japan with its technology know how and wealth does not need the US to defend itself against the Chinese. bring it on and we shall see who shall prevail. The new Chinese AC carrier will be sunk in the first 15 minutes of air sea battle...

CesarBorgia
CesarBorgia

In the next 20 years, China will have the largest economy in the world. Japan will remember what happened the last time it started a war with the largest economy in the world and ask for support from the US before starting any belligerence. Much like Austria-Hungary did with the German Empire in 1914.



SanMan
SanMan

I feel there's some Euro-centrism at work when the author asserts that "WW2 Europeans good, WW2 Asians bad"

Sorry, but Merkel has recently been quite vocal in condemning "multiculturalism" as a dead concept, and calling for tougher laws on immigrants. Germany may have apologized to mend ties with fellow NATO member countries, but how far has it really gone in apologizing to the Russians and mending ties with them, is the real question. The Germans also have the benefit of NATO, which the Japanese don't have. If an Eastern NATO is formed, then Japan would have more scope for reinforcing ties with its neighbors.

bin.sunch
bin.sunch

The Japanese cabinets members are just some pets for the American government, but, what's the taste of the American leaders, aren't they ugly beings?

Yuan
Yuan

No one complained when Japanese declared much bigger air-defense zone, nor felt disturbed when US Aircraft carrier was within 200 miles from China shoreline. One should think what if you ware a Chinese.

RobertNguyen
RobertNguyen

The situation is extremely dangerous due to the naked aggressive behavior of China of not only toward Japan but also to the whole Asia continent. Unless and util China controls it ambition and self realizes its limitation the world peace is in clear and present danger.

China literally issues a command to the 7th Fleet to get out of these waters and this fact is not acceptable.

ianjones2004
ianjones2004

This article does not go far enough to explain the current problem. This has more to do than just what happened in WWII or over some small islands. This is about China making its territorial and military ambitions clear and they involve more than some small Japanese Islands. They involve East Asia, the South China Sea, parts of India, and more. China is making all sorts of claims of ownership which they say is theirs based on what they think they owned way back in the 1400s. 


Japan, South Korea, the Philippines,  Vietnam, India, and others have all had major disputes with the Chinese in the last four years over territory. Even Australia and Russia (who is seemly on friendly grounds with China) are nervous about China's territorial ambitions.  Some Chinese military officials have made it clear that their intention is to drive the U.S. military out of Asia and thus control the sea lanes in the next 20 years. This would threaten U.S. economic interests in Asia not to mention threaten U.S. national security in the Pacific. 


Let us also not forget who runs China. The CCP is not democratic but an authoritarian government. Only 10% of the population has any political, and thus legal rights. That 10% practically rules the country like in the Chinese aristocracy of old. Political dissent, religious freedom, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press are not protected. The Asian nations, especially the  democratic ones, fear that China will crush their freedoms and turn them into subject states. This is not fantasy, because some in the CCP openly talks about returning to the days when China ruled Asia by forcing other Asian peoples to bring tribute to Beijing, to grovel before their emperor, and declare their loyalty and inferior status to the Middle Kingdom.  


No doubt there are many honest and wonderful Chinese people, for I have meet many of them and have a great respect for their culture and traditions. However, I have no respect for the the CCP. The CCP complains about Japanese imperialism and their atrocities from WWII committed on the Chinese to hide the fact that they, the CCP, oppress the Chinese people today. The CCP killed more Chinese than the Japanese ever did. Mao alone is responsible for millions more dead Chinese than anything the most racist and crazed Japanese, European or American imperialist could ever have dreamed of much less accomplish.


You know it is silly to blame the Japanese of today for the atrocities committed 70 plus years ago. The Japanese people paid for their mistakes. As an American, who had a grandfather who severed on Tinian as a mechanic for B-29s in WWII, I know they did. We firebombed their cities and dropped two atomic bombs on them. They paid the price. It is un-American to judge and continue to punish the children and grandchildren of a people for past atrocities, more important Japan now has a democratic government, and respect freedom and liberty.  This Chinese obsession for revenge, for hatred, will cost them the same way it has cost the Japanese, the Germans, even us Americans in the past.  


Who is the CCP to demand anyone apologize for anything. When will they apologize to their own people? There is a big difference between the government of Japan and China today. Japan has changed from the militaristic government of the past, but China is still run by the CCP....they have not changed. I know who I will side with...I hope the rest of my fellow Americans do as well. 

AuricGoldfinger
AuricGoldfinger

@SteveWalserunlike Germany which apologized for it's wartime atrocities, and made reparations. Japan never has, in fact in you ever look at their government issued school textbooks, it whitewashes alot of history and denies any of the artocities they committed, eg: Pearl Harbor was done in self defense etc etc... pure lies!

daniel_guibord
daniel_guibord

@GuoLiang


I agree with you 100%; particularly on the multiculturalism question.

Multiculturalism is totally destroying the Americans, Canadians, French, Germans, Italians, British and all other European people who allowed multiculturalism to take root in their countries.

The vast majority of traitors are easily recognizable, typically they are idealists (e.g., Tony Blair - former Prime minister of the U.K.) and/or of communist ideology disguised as “left-wing”.

Thank you for reading me,

Daniel Guibord

ChoiSiuYan
ChoiSiuYan

@jksomma I born in HK and study the Chinese history in HK. By then HK was under UK's administration. What the view point learned from the Chinese history is the same as that from Taiwan, the Republic of China, that is the legal government of China is in Taiwan. Obviously Taiwan is part of China. Even China sent army to Taiwan to start the war, we can only say that it is a civil war of China, in no way that you can say that it is invasion. I used to work in an international company. It had office in Taiwan also. When I discussed about Taiwan separatism with a colleague in Taiwan, he said even the goddess (tian hou liang liang 天后娘娘) that they are worshiping come from China, how can they deny that they are not Chinese.

ImJustAGuy
ImJustAGuy

@jksomma - Taiwan will become China's 16th province and Barack Obama will go on a coast-to-coast campaign trying to convince Americans the ACA is actually good for them. 

duduong
duduong

@TonyBarnes 

Congratulations on your amazing achievement of having more lies than sentences in one paragraph.

Before I begin the corrections, let me mention first that CCP lifted 600 million people out of abject poverty, a miserable existence that is barely better than death. That was 80% of the world's total accomplishment.

CCP is not the world's biggest killer; Stalin is, and Hitler is a close second.

Japan is not punished for its sins. For example, its emperor, the equivalent of Hitler, got to stay on the throne. Even soldiers from Unit 731, which killed hundreds of thousands of civilians and POWs in cruel "experiments", were simply let off the hook by American occupiers so as to transfer the "expertise".

Mao did not kill 80 millions; 5-6 millions died in Culture Revolution, and 30 millions perished in famines exacerbated by his policies, but an earlier famine under Japanese occupation in 1942 killed similar numbers.

No one raped Tibet. Dalai was bought and armed by CIA in the late 50's and became a traitor. Those CIA records are now de-classified and any US citizen can request a copy.

Confucius taught Chinese to judge by the actions, not names. American rednecks, however, define good as themselves, so by definition they can do no wrong, including rapes, murders and theft. They forget that the United States itself was founded on genocide of the Indians and subsequent mass land theft. They forget that it was the US that perpetuated numerous foreign coups, subversion and assassinations since WWII. They forget that it was the US which invaded other nations repeatedly, often on false premise. They forget that it was the US that tortured prisoners and simply defined it away. For Americans to point fingers at China is supreme hypocrisy to begin with. To do so with false evidences is, well, TonyBarnesian.

leon1376
leon1376

@RobertNguyen I'm impressed! You sound like quite the naval strategist. Exactly how is Japan going to sink the Liaoning "in the first 15 minutes"? Explain it carefully and use small words so we can understand you better. Keep in mind that even as we speak, China is building two more carriers that are bigger and faster. You'll have to sink those in the second and third 15 minutes as well. Admiral Spruance won the Battle of Midway because he had two things going for him: luck and Captain Miles Browning. Sure will be interesting to hear how you plan on sinking three Chinese aircraft carriers, plus destroyers and subs and J-20 stealth fighters. You better hurry and come up with something because in 10 years, the Chinese will probably have a battle station on the moon with particle beam weapons. Fry you like an ant under a magnifying glass. 

ChinaMan88
ChinaMan88

@RobertNguyen yeah right, the entire Japan territory is within range of inter-continental ballistic missiles from China. Without the US, Japan would surrender in 3 days.


Even North Korea has the missiles to completely destroy Japan.

tucobenedictopacificojmramirez
tucobenedictopacificojmramirez

The Chinese economy has a large bubble.

Chinese ghosts cities is a tried and failed economic plot.

Just look at the USSR prior to falling.

The6yare building ghosts cities to keep up their economy.

Why?

Because the Chinese do not make anything on there own worth anything.

Everything they labor is designed in the west and put together in China.

An economy like that cannot survive very long.

In fact the building bubble in China will cause a  massive economic crash for China and perhaps the world given we are almost dependent on cheaply made Chinese products.



PatriotEngineerAnalyst
PatriotEngineerAnalyst

@Yuan 


China's Navy, including her aircraft carrier, is welcome to sail 200 miles, or closer, to the USA.


Why?


200 miles from the American coastline is called "international waters," and international law says there is FREEDOM of navigation in this zone, just like there is freedom of navigation within 200 miles of most parts of China.


Over the past decade, China has created unnecessary volatility in the East and South China Sea.  They have routinely bullied smaller nations (Republic of the Philippines and Vietnam) using military force.  China also unilaterally declared that nearly ALL of the South China Sea belongs to China.


Using an analogy, it would be the same as the USA declaring the entire Caribbean Sea belongs to the USA.


It is apparent China wants to control the Strait of Malacca, where 70% of the world's commerce traverses.  Trust me, it will NEVER happen!

bin.sunch
bin.sunch

@RobertNguyen your comment is totally absurd. You hardly any idea about the history between China and Japan, and if you are an American, you even have no idea the pain suffered by the solders and their relatives in the pearl harbour attack.

ChinaMan88
ChinaMan88

@ianjones2004 your comment is extremely funny, given that America is the most militaristic country on earth since the end of WW2.


Democracy is useless if normal citizens don't have control over what their government does. The invasion of Iraq, invasion of Afghanistan, are really atrocities committed by the current US government. Some idiot guy takes down two of your towers, and you take out their whole country. Wow.


It doesn't matter if a country is a dictatorship or not, as long as the guys in power know what they are doing. 


If the guys in power are evil, whether a country is communist or democratic makes no difference.

Phillrr
Phillrr

You've made some excellent points to which I would add the official policy of the CCP of "victimhood" results in convenient nationalism trotted out when convenient, to conceal their own excesses...and unfortunately results in xenophobia. This in turn fuels such international disputes as now exist and heightens the danger of military mistakes that could cost the world dearly.

Like Mandela, Xi should be the bigger person and lead national forgiveness in order to reconcile with China's neighbours. Great danger awaits China, Japan and the rest of the world unless he does.

Yuan
Yuan

Yeah the CCP is nasty and we all don't like it. However the tight containment of China is a fact that 1.4 billion people live without respect. Just put yourself in the shoes of a Chinese. Would you live with the status quo? The world have to learn to live with and respect a strong China and appreciate it. Besides, CCP would not control China forever. It's for the sake of Chinese people. If you were Jews, what would you feel to see Herman chancellor visit and pay tribute to Church with Hitler's tomb? That's exactly what Japanese have been doing, again and again.

TonyBarnes
TonyBarnes

@duduong  while it may or may not be true the that the CCP lifted 600 million out of poverty, what you are overlooking is the forced abortions and death in the labor camps. how many hundreds of millions  of chinese chilren did the CCP  kill?  It was the CCP that attacked tibet and india. ibet There is no nation on earth without sin. It is strange that you can talk about ours but refuse to admit to your own. the soldiers that attacked tibet and india were serving their nation as soliders do . just like the japans soliders.  honoring there service is not a sin. The west does not hate you. we have seen changes for the better out of China but you have a long way to go. If you had free access to the internet you will see the estimated number of chinese killed by the CCP is form 60 to 120 million.  The truth will set you free.


erik136
erik136

The following is the top 10 leaders who killed the most 'internal' civivilans

1. Mao Zedong of China (49 to 78 million)

2. Stalin of the USSR (23 million)

3. Hitlerof Germany (17 million)

4. Leopold II of Belguim (2 to 15 million)

5. Tojo of Japan (5 million)

6. Ismail Pasha of Turkey (2.5 million)

7. Pol Pot of Cambodia (1.7 million)

8. Kim II Sung of North Korea (1.6 million)

9. Mengistu Mariam of Ethiopaia (400,000 to 1.5 million)

10. Yak Ubu Gowon of Nigeria (1.1 million)

RickSander
RickSander

@leon1376 Hey, just saying.  The naval code breakers probably had the biggest impact on the US victory at Midway.

ChinaMan88
ChinaMan88

@tucobenedictopacificojmramirez LOL, doesn't matter China has been the world's strongest country for many centuries, and history has shown every time it goes through a dark period (getting invaded) it comes back stronger and BIGGER.


China is a much bigger country than Japan and in the long run it will always be a stronger and bigger country. Japan is only a tiny country, similar to Britain and France, these countries are returning to their "normal" place in the world.


RickSander
RickSander

@PatriotEngineerAnalyst @Yuan Depending on how you read the law, it's actually 12 or possibly 24 miles, not 200.  200 is for economic use by the country bordering the water.  12 is for transit.  There are some exceptions.   Cheeers.

ChinaMan88
ChinaMan88

@PatriotEngineerAnalyst @Yuan Not sure what you're on about, Malaysia/Singapore/Indonesia are all controlled by wealthy chinese. They already own the Straits of Malacca, along with the entire South East Asia.


The Chinese people are already climbing up the ranks in most western countries, dominating the housing sector and propping up real estate prices.


In history, China rarely invaded by force. China invaded via its people.

RobertNguyen
RobertNguyen

@bin.sunch @RobertNguyen Where the hell have you been? Without modern Japan - China would have have still been in the stone age riding bicycles. Your Chinese pridesand hatreds for everyone else is old antic. WWII was over in 1945...

SanMan
SanMan

bin.sunch, your memory of history between China and Japan seems to neglect how Japan has bankrolled China with tens of billions in development loans. Post-war Japan has been a very responsible actor in the region, and cannot be compared with pre-war Japan.

SanMan
SanMan

How come you didn't feel enough respect for yourself to refuse the tens of billions of dollars in development loans that post-WW2 Japan has given you? When those were offered, you accepted them from evil Japan right away. Now that you don't need their development loans anymore, then suddenly your memory conveniently recalls Japan as Hitler. That's rather hypocritical. Soviets also felt traumatized by German aggression in WW2, but it didn't justify the Soviet backlash through expansionist hegemony over all of Eastern Europe afterwards. Why are you to trying to pursue a similar path of folly like theirs? Will you now also pretend to me that Philippines and Vietnam invaded you in WW2 and killed your people? Come on, you're now getting into fights with everybody - all your neighbors - and not just Japan.

leon1376
leon1376

@RickSander @leon1376 Agreed, Rick, but only to a point. A good analogy might be that of an NFL coach. His job is to put his players in a position where they can win the game. But despite all his best efforts, they often lose. The codebreakers put the American fleet in the neighborhood but Spruance could still have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. On the way to the Japanese fleet, the torpedo bombers, dive bombers, and fighter escorts became separated. It was a matter of sheer luck that the torpedo bombers drew down the Japanese CAP and let the dive bombers pick their targets with impunity. That, plus the fact that Miles Browning was a gold-plated lunatic. Halsey knew how to handle him but Spruance was a battleship guy and regarded Browning as something of a rattlesnake - with a bad temper. If Browning had not prevailed, the Battle of Midway might have had a different outcome. Remember, we lost one of our carriers as well. It could just as easily been two, or all three. 

ChoiSiuYan
ChoiSiuYan

@TonyBarnes @ChinaMan88 @PatriotEngineerAnalyst @Yuan Tibet under china since Yuan dynasty. At the dawn of the Qing dynasty Tibet declare independent by the persuasion of Britain. The Republic of China never admit it. When PRC take over China, China took back the control of Tibet. Tibet belongs to China long before USA became independent from Britain. About the war with India, it was India who started the invasion. Please read the history book "India's China War" written by Neville Maxwell. 

RobertNguyen
RobertNguyen

@ChinaMan88 @RobertNguyen @bin.sunch Its time for Tibetan to pay revenge to the Chinese takeover their country. Tibetan - burn your enemies, do not burn yourself in futile protests...

ChinaMan88
ChinaMan88

@RobertNguyen @bin.sunch 7 decades is not that long ago, espescially considering the Chinese never enacted revenge themselves. America did the atomic bombing but that wasn't China.

Japan never paid the full price of their atrocities.


Remember WW1? Germany was humiliated and never felt it should be over. They started WW2.