Interactive: Look For Patterns In Last Night’s GOP Votes Against Debt Deal

A guide to the 144 House members who opposed the deal to end the shutdown and raise the U.S. Treasury debt ceiling

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After weeks of turmoil and the threat of an economic cataclysm, 144 House Republicans voted against the bill last night to raise the debt ceiling and reopen the government. The vote marked the fourth time in the current Congress that a bill passed the House without the support of a majority of GOP members.

There are some clear patterns among these 144 members. House Republicans who won their 2012 election by more than 60 percent were disproportionately likely to vote against the bill. Freshmen members were also more likely than average to vote no.

The following map charts the 231 Republican lawmakers who cast an up-or-down vote on the bill. Use the buttons above the map to see how the vote divided along various characteristics, and mouse over a dot to see the individual lawmaker.

Of course, there’s no way to know how many of those 144 lawmakers would have voted “no” were they the deciding vote. And President Obama himself famously voted against raising the debt ceiling as a Senator in 2006. More than anything else, the roll call for last night’s bill is a handy gloss on the schism that the Republican Party faces among itself members–a common side effect of controlling the chamber.

29 comments
j45ashton
j45ashton

What's really striking about the extreme right-wing fringe is how bitter and angry these people are.  Really, when I watch them there's no mistaking that their attitudes seem to suggest violence.  If asked about this, I'm sure they'd go on some rant about how they're justified because the democrats or liberals or moderate Republicans are robbing America of it greatness, its character, its spirit and blah, blah, blah.  If things were so bad, why wouldn't all of us being up in arms advocating revolution?  They're the sane ones, right?  The rest of us are screwed up.  No there's something else going on with these people.  Something about their personal lives that makes them bitter, frustrated and so angry.  I have no doubt we may see more demonstrations and acts like we saw at the Veterans Rally which got hijacked by the speakers and by people who picked up & toted the barricades and threw them against the White House fence.  What's really disgusting to me is that guys like Ted Cruz are just around to mop up the gravy.  He gets people angry, worked up, ready to do something...and then he leaves.  Ted 'The Instigator' Cruz.  He'll be around to soak up his notion of the gravy.  The rest of you followers will just get the beans.


bravo
bravo

No Republican politician can claim with a straight face that he or she supports reducing government spending, when Reagan presided over the greatest expansion of government since World War II, and Bush fought 2 wars without paying for them while increasing Medicare drug coverage without paying for that.  They cynically protested that deficit spending must be cut in the face of our most recent financial disaster (the so-called Great Recession, brought to us by the wrongheaded Republican notion that financial markets don't need government oversight), when government stimulation of the economy is exactly what is needed when private sector activity shrinks.  Thank goodness the Federal Reserve Chairman understands this, or we would all be in bread lines and soup kitchens.  The idea that Republicans understand economics better than Democrats is a sham. As for the Chinese, they will be buying U.S. bonds long after all of us are dead.  Their propaganda outburst that the dollar is unreliable begs the question, what other currency could take its place?  Perhaps they would prefer the Euro, or is the threat of the demise of the European Union too much?  Perhaps they would prefer their own currency be used as the world's reserve currency, or is the thought of reliance on a government-run economy too much for the rest of the world? 

reallife
reallife

So we've got to get rid of 87 more rinos... we're making progress. We'll see how many are left after the next shellacking.

Maxwells
Maxwells

China, the largest holder of US debt understands that you don't pay back old loans by creating new loans, as the US debt  climbs the ability to secure new loans will end, and the Administrations fiscal policy of 'kick the can' will also end, the US can not continue to spend more money then it takes in, no one can.

 "Chinese agency downgrades US credit rating" 

17 October 2013

 "

"The fundamental situation that the debt growth rate significantly outpaces that of fiscal income and gross domestic product remains unchanged," Dagong said in the statement, adding Washington's solvency was vulnerable as old debts were still repaid through raising new debts.

"Hence the government is still approaching the verge of default crisis, a situation that cannot be substantially alleviated in the foreseeable future," it said.

www.france24.com/en/20131017-chinese-agency-downgrades-us-credit-rating

abbottro
abbottro

It would be a blessing if Texas seceded. I don't know a single Texan who doesn't want out and I totally support that idea.

cent-fan
cent-fan

It would be very intellectually stimulating and damned funny to see a group of think tankers study the procedures, logistics, and benefits of letting Texas secede from the US.  Consider the amount of federal direct disaster relief, farm programs, oil company welfare programs, urban support programs, school programs, environmental impact programs, healthcare programs, and military infrastructure support programs that would disappear off the US books.  The only downside would be a much larger border to protect to keep the Texas undesirables out.

  I suppose Texas will keep the oil money, but unless the oil companies move out of Dallas and Houston and become US "citizens" again I would think they wouldn't be getting the Federal tax breaks and Federal oil exploration assistance anymore.

  Once we get the procedure down we can help New Mexico and Arizona design their national flags and money... as a parting gift.

j45ashton
j45ashton

Democrat & Republican alike are concerned about the debt.  It has to come down.

There can be rational discussion about how to lower it.  Through cuts, increased revenue, eliminating loopholes, whatever will work.

But there's a subtext to the discussion on the Republican side that will have to stop if we're ever going to get out of the debt mess together. 

Looking at the map above, those ready to send the country into default are mostly are in Texas, then Tennessee, Northern Georgia, Southern North Carolina & South Carolina.  It's like fighting the civil war all over again.  The war is 148 years over now.  We're an integrated society becoming more integrated every day.  Immigration reform is going to happen at some point.  We will become even more of an open, heterogeneous mix.  We're made up of just about every major religion and each is constitutionally protected.  Religious freedom, freedom of choice is constitutionally guaranteed.  There should be no more fighting under the covers about these things.  They are settled.

38% of those on some form of gov't assistance is now white, 39% Black, 15% Hispanic.  People are hurting across the boards.

It's time to forget all the subtext and have a rational discussion about what needs to be done.  Like any business, pros & cons of all approaches need to be discussed objectively and decisions made.  Any further demagoguery should shine immediate spotlights on those politicians who are trying to hurt the country in favor of their prejudices rather than help it. 




mantisdragon91
mantisdragon91

And everyone of their districts should be denied federal funds or services until a new representatives is elected. Since they obviously don't want the government to function properly, their voters need to learn exactly what it is the Government has been doing for them all these years.

MrObvious
MrObvious

Well - there we have it. A map of the people who think default is a good thing for us. Not surprising is of course that most of them are in states that take more of federal dollars then ones that add. If you're living on uncle sams credit card I guess it's easy to be delusional about what happens when the economy crashes.

DeweySayenoff
DeweySayenoff

@j45ashton I know this explanation is going to sound over the top and "out there", and even "hateful", but it's really not.  This is a sincere attempt to explain why people would be utterly irrational in how they vote.

The simplest explanation is that the rightists ha've gerrymandered their districts so tightly that even if they sacrificed virgins in public in a YouTube video in front of a band of Satan's minions, their constituents would still vote for them.   Let's face it, when a person can be elected to congress on 3800 votes in a state with 3.2 million people, they don't give a damn about anything but whatever they feel like doing.  It's not like they're going to be voted out of office for being a complete moron.

The other explanation that goes along with this, and explains why 3800 people would vote for a flake like that.  There is compelling evidence through their behavior which suggests these voters (and the people they support) are, in fact, delusional.

To be clear, "delusional" in this context means unwilling to accept reality as it is.  It's not that they're unable to do that.  They just plain don't want to.  They have suckled at the cold, hateful, shriveled teat of rightist propaganda for so long, they only trust "their sources" (which only cater to their points of view whether that point of view is true or not) and reject, vilify or denounce other points of view which usually are usually more factual and/or unbiased.  The fallacy they are victim to is called "poisoning the well" - This is the deliberate undermining of the validity of all other sources and making their victims believe all other "sources of information" are unreliable or fake while promoting the biased and usually patently false viewpoints of the sources rightists "trust".

If one rejects truth for fiction in the way they look at the world, they become "delusional" - which is to say they believe things that are not true and reject things that are true.

The rightists have been turning politics into religion by tying politics to religious views for 40 years (ever since Roe vs. Wade).  This viewpoint caters to the hatreds, biases, intolerance, prejudices and viewpoints of the most extremist rightists, and was done for two reasons: 1. To rile up the voter base and get them out to vote for the anointed ones by the powers that be.  And 2: To act as a smoke screen to cover up the sympathetic looting of the middle class and poor by the wealthy and powerful in the country.  (This isn't exclusive to the rightists, by the way.  It's the millionaires on the left versus the billionaires on the right fighting over what's left of OUR pocket change, but the propaganda over the last 40 years has turned the entire right into delusional zombies without a clue and they raised a generation of brainless zombies who think the propaganda are GOALS - which they never actually were).

The end result is a bevy of complete idiots (IQ >20) like Cruz (et al.) who swallowed the campaign promises of the past hook, line and sinker and don't have the intellectual ability to see it for the BS it was in the first place, and who voted to destroy the country's economy (and take the rest of the world with it) because they don't like the fact a black man in the white house championed really flawed "reform" that, even if as flawed as it is, will vote against saving hundreds of thousands of lives of our fellow American Citizen's lives.

Delusional rightists is the problem.  It was caused by rightist campaign rhetoric and propaganda over the last 40 years.  People who aren't as smart as they used to be bought into that BS and we arrive at this point where functional morons (in a politically incorrect psychological terminology way) refuse to accept truth and prefer lies that make them feel better.

This explains how 144 people who are clinically delusional were voted into congress and why we have arrived at the situation we find ourselves to be in today.  I find myself torn between shooting these folks for the traitors they are or simply committing them to mental institutions until their grasp on reality is functional again.  The bleeding heart liberal in me says the latter.  The patriot rightist in me says the former.  In a compromise between the two, how about we punt these morons to their well deserved obscurity and vote in people who actually have a grasp on reality.

Of course to do that, the powers that be need to be understand that if they want to have any chance at retaining any power at all, they need to be sure not to piss off "we the people".  Because if "we the people" take the reigns into our mouths, we can do whatever the hell we want to without any "powers that be" making us do otherwise.

Personally, I'd prefer we be moderate in our choices, but once the "revolution" starts (and I think it will soon), there's no telling whether the powers that be will survive it or not, let alone direct it to their benefit.  It wouldn't break my heart at ALL if the Powers that Be lose their power to "we the people".

DeweySayenoff
DeweySayenoff

@reallife -laughs-

If by 'RINO' you refer to the tp traitors, I'm with you.  They understand governnance about as much as a toddler understands quantum mechanics.

But if you think "RINO" are those who voted in favor of screwing over their fellow Americans and consigning millions to death because they had no affordable health care, then you ARE the problem and the sooner the rest of this country is rid of your political influence, the better.

DeweySayenoff
DeweySayenoff

@MaxwellWilliams I'm all for reducing the U.S. debt.  The question is HOW and WHEN.

How isn't entitlements.  And I can prove that.  Entitlements is money paid to individuals for living expenses.  Think about that from an economists point of view.  THEY SPEND THAT MONEY.

Now, think about what that means to a capitalist economy.  A capitalist economy ONLY OPERATES ON SPENDING.  It has no other means of functioning at all. People spend money that goes to businesses or other people (who usually spend the money).  Those businesses then use that money to pay to run their business, pay their employees and for profit.  The more demand (in the form of spending) for that business, the more likely that business will hire more people to meet that demand.  That means more jobs.  That means more income for people.  That means more SPENDING, which means more demand, which means more hiring to meet demand, which means more money being spend, which means more demand which means more hiring.

Let's look at tax revenue for a moment.  No spending means low demand for products and services, which means fewer jobs, which means less money to spend, which means less spending, which means LOW DEMAND, which means less job growth.  Low job growth means low tax revenue, which means higher deficits because more people are out of work and need government assistance.  This is what we have now.

In the end, "entitlement" programs actually help stimulate economies, provided people spend money.  The fact that businesses are flush with cash proves that people ARE spending money.  It's the "job creators" (you know, the wealthy the tax cuts have benefited most and the middle class the least), who aren't creating jobs they can afford to create.

The only way to generate spending is to put money in the pockets of those who spend enough money in enough places to stimulate job growth - the working poor and middle class.  So cut the taxes to zero if we have to on the lower 80% of income earners and raise them on the top 20% of income earners to offset that deficit.  Or just raise them on the top 20% to pay for the deficit, if you want to be a purist.  THEY HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY FOR IT!  They control 95% of the nation's wealth!  They will know no deprivation, no hardship, no loss in lifestyle or standard of living even if we tripled their income taxes!

And if they left the U.S., GREAT!  We need to get rid of the waste of humanity they are and dump them on some other country to leech off of THEM for a while so we can get to the business of rebuilding OUR economy the way it should be - fairly distributed among those who work for a living.

If we do that, the Chinese will have nothing to bitch about because then we can afford to pay our debts and our credit will actually be worthy of the ratings it earns.

abbottro
abbottro

@cent-fan New Mexico is so hispanic and getting more so every day that it won't happen. The shrinking non-hispanic population voted in Steve Pierce whom I have met. When he found out I wasn't a voter he literally turned his back on me which told me what the guy was all about. I have to say their Gov is an R but also a woman and a decent person and yep, got a lot of the hispanic votes because she is decent and it comes across which is more than I can say for the prior Gov who was a D. 

I can see Texas seceding for real but not NM. Not sure about AZ but they sure ARE getting a reputation that's a fact..

ARTRaveler
ARTRaveler

@cent-fan And let Mexico reclaim all three as former Mexican territory taken from them by force.  And those military bases relocate to other states as needed but are shutdown  in Texas.  Texas is a net beggar nation, getting back more tax money then they pay in already. 

LeahPetersen
LeahPetersen

@j45ashtonSo many people seem to be under the delusion that the "debt ceiling" had anything to do with raising or lowering our national debt. It was simply providing the funds to pay bills we had ALREADY ACCRUED and that were APPROVED BY CONGRESS.

Lowering our national debt is an entirely different thing. That would require lowering and eventually eliminating our budget deficit, something that, since the 70s, only happens under Democratic Presidents and is subsequently destroyed by Republican administrations. Here's a handy chart. Interestingly, the current rate of increase was not started by Obama, or even Bush II, but by Reagan and Bush I. Clinton fixed that but as soon as he was out, the Republicans ran it right back up.

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

reallife
reallife

Fine with me - Don't expect my taxes either - Where do I sign up?

allthingsinaname
allthingsinaname

@mantisdragon91  

Well now you sound just like the GOP, let them eat cake attitude. You know of course they believe the same thing.

2006bmwk1200r
2006bmwk1200r

@MrObvious But maybe default is a good thing, given the fact that there would be no debt if the Congress would have the Treasury print debt-free interest-free U.S. Bank Notes to replace the debt-based Federal Reserve Notes printed at the direction of private bankers.  Read U.S. Representative Louis McFadden's charges of treason against the Federal Reserve and government officials.  John F Kennedy died an American hero for printing U.S. Bank Notes to replace Federal Reserve Notes, stated secret societies are repugnant to America, and is the only real American President in well over a hundred years.

j45ashton
j45ashton

@DeweySayenoff @j45ashton Dewey, I'm on board right up until the last 3 paragraphs. 

Agree about the gerrymandering.  The extreme gerrymandering that took place after 2010 looks like part of an orchestrated campaign for Republicans to retain power (as opposed to offering policies that really help the middle class),

Agree about the delusion.  We've seen this time & again at this site where right-wingers make statements claiming fact, and a little research proves that they're 100% wrong.  I feel as you do that  they live in a non-factual world  bolstered by Fox News and right-wing talk radio.

 On the personal side, I know a couple of guys who are tea party types.  I know them well.  Since high school.  I know how they've struggled & how their lives styles have had to change over the years.  For them taxes are payments they've been forced to make that they see as coming close to forcing their lifestyles downward.  They see taxes as money that helps other people, not themselves.  They see themselves somewhat as victims who should be more successful, having to struggle because of forces beyond their control.  And yes, they are very bitter about parts of their lives.

These are the stories I know.  Within the tea party I'm sure their are other stories that are different.

ddmcd1974
ddmcd1974

@DeweySayenoff @MaxwellWilliams The question is why does anyone have to support others?  Why? Just because its nice to help mankind.  Just like you don't believe God created the world why do I need to believe in creating money to give to some other dbag who I dont know.  

Openminded1
Openminded1

@abbottro @cent-fan Arizona can leave with texass and new mexico and form a new country. Call it north mexico. make spanish the primary language.