Christians for Gay Marriage Launch “Not All Like That” Campaign

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They call themselves the NALT Christians, and Wednesday morning they quietly launched a video campaign with a controversial message: there is nothing anti-Biblical or inherently sinful about being gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender.

NALT stands for “Not All Like That”—Christians who say “We are not all anti-gay”—and the NALT Christian Project aims to give LGBT-affirming Christians a platform to tell the world, and especially young gay people, that you can be a Christian and still support equal rights for gays. Modeled after Dan Savage’s It Gets Better Project, the NALT Project lets anyone upload a video to share why he or she is a Christian and supports gay rights.

The project began when Wayne Besen and Evan Hurst of Truth Wins Out, which works to counter anti-gay religious extremism, collaborated with John Shore, a California pastor with the Progressive Christian Alliance. Frustrated that many people think Christians who oppose homosexuality and gay marriage like Tony Perkins, Maggie Gallagher and Pat Robertson speak for all Bible followers, they reached out to Savage to see how they might create a platform like It Gets Better to help affirming Christians speak up. “People feel they have to make a choice between their faith and their sexuality, and for some people that is devastating,” Besen says. “Actually you don’t have to make a choice.”

NALT launched Wednesday morning with thirty videos, mostly from allies. Supporters of the project now include Auburn Theological Seminary, Covenant Network of Presbyterians, Methodists in New Directions, and The Evangelical Network. Young evangelicals are one of NALT’s main target audiences. “Young people are very uncomfortable when they see these finger-wagging evangelicals who don’t seem to have much in common with the Jesus they believe in,” Besen explains.

Shore’s own conversion experience is one many evangelicals might understand. He was sitting at his desk in a law office 16 years ago when, “suddenly and out of nowhere,” as he says, he felt the Holy Spirit’s presence and he fell to his knees in prayer. The next Sunday he knew he needed to go to church, so he drove to nearby First Presbyterian Church of San Diego, and he and his wife began attending.

But six years later, the Shores hit a problem: they wanted to volunteer as deacons, but a church leader asked them to sign a paper agreeing that no one who is in a same-gender relationship should have a position of church authority. “I thought the lady was joking,” John recalls. “The idea that becoming a Christian meant that I was supposed to suddenly have an understanding that my LGBT friends were suddenly immoral was repugnant to me. It wasn’t reasonable to me that it would be integral to Christian theology.” His wife, Catherine, put it even more strongly: “If this is an inextricable part of the Christian experience, I’m out,” she told him. “Somebody’s misread something.”

That moment pushed the Shores to a new level of commitment to equality. They joined an Episcopal church and started studying the Bible to learn what it actually says about homosexuality. Of the more than 31,000 passages in the Bible, Shore says, homosexuality is only discussed in six or seven, and Jesus never demands his followers sacrifice compassion. “It actually is more Biblical if you make affirmation of LGBT people part of your understanding of the word of God,” he says. Plus, he argues, theology follows sociology. “It changed when it came to slavery, it changed when it came to women’s suffrage, it will change with this issue.”

The test for NALT is how many NALT Christians are out there, and how many of them will submit videos of support. Many Christians believe the Bible teaches homosexuality is a sin and are not comfortable with newer interpretative methods that make room for marriage equality. “We have a disagreement with some people about what is best for people with same sex attraction,” says Peter Sprigg, senior fellow at the Family Research Council. “We as Christians promote unconditional love—it is the liberal side that promotes conditional love that will not accept our love unless it accompanied by support for a particular political agenda.”

Shore however is hoping for volume. “Every video is a drop of water in the bucket to wash away this false Christianity that’s been out there,” he says. “It’s time for this project.”

207 comments
Rocky2
Rocky2

       Universal GAYety is Coming !

     Gays are found throughout history. For the first time ever - finally - they're almost worldwide! Wow!
     This global gaydom is even foretold in the Bible - predicted by Jesus (see "days of Lot" in Luke 17 and compare with Genesis 19).
     And the Hebrew prophet Zechariah (14th chapter) says that during the same gay "days" ALL nations will come against Israel and fulfill the "days of Noah" at the same time (see Luke 17 again) - a short time of anti-Jewish genocide found in Zechariah 13:8 when two-thirds of all Jews will die.
     In other words, when "gay days" have become universal, all hell will break loose!
     Shockingly, the same "days" will lead to and trigger the "end of days" - and when they begin, human government will quickly wind down in just a few short years. For the first time in history there won't be enough time for anyone to expect to live long enough to be able to attend college, have kids and grand-kids, save for and enjoy retirement, etc.
     One final thought. The more we see gays "coming out," the sooner Jesus will be "coming down"!

goldencrown2013
goldencrown2013

dang yo agains??here we ares talking abouts thr truth rights??/wells thens let the truth bve knowns okays?now here it is okays?no body goes 2 god the father except through jesus the christ who willingly died for us alls becuase of whats peaoples??becuase of alll of our sins...wells who here on earth has not sinned huhs?can anybody answer thats huhs?check it outd okays?cause the truth will set u free and free indeeds okays?the bible says okays??thats we have alls falling shorts of the glory of god...so answer this okays??who worthy of life itself ..if we have all falling short of the glory of god huhs?somebosy open ur eyes on this and speak ups okays?cause i really want 2 hear a non-sinner in this okays?wells noi body can go 2 god the father except through gods beloved son who was offered ups okays?>as the ultimate sacrifice for  whats peaplkes?for whats ?thats right if u knows okays..for us ....dang man im tired of talking this blaming game yo .straight ups and for real u knows rights??jjust man up and talk the truth.if u gay .then u aint having it ur way okays?becuase thats just simply going against gods will u may knows rights?wells u aint having it ur way.if u truthfullys do not want 2 acknowledge for who.u are really suppose 2 bes u knows?so indeeds peoples as it is okays?just open ur eyes okays?wells im outs nows.may god bless alls okays?in jesus's name thats i b praysings ins for sure 2 bes in jesus's name it is amens and amens .peace n god bless peace!!

CrossWinds
CrossWinds

Christians should not hate gays or any sinner. But their actions we cannot condone, for we represent a higher power, and are called to a ministry of reconciliation with God.........churches that condone homosexuality are not being faithful to God first...........

If you continue in your sin we can only point out the eternal fate that awaits you.....

......James 5:20
let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins......

prophronjohnson
prophronjohnson

Proverbs 28:13 He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

The only sexual behavoiur acceptable to God is sex between a man and his wife. Pre-marrital sex is sin as well as homosexual sex is sin. And gays getting married doesn't legitimize their immoral sex acts.

Leviticus 20:13

If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Repent and forsake sin! Jesus paid for humanity's forgiveness with his blood but it isn't individually applied unless there is repentance from sin and real faith placed on Jesus Christ as the Lord of Lords and the king of kings; God in the flesh -- the highest authority. If a person claims Jesus as their Lord then loyal obedience to Him is expected.

eMatters2
eMatters2

We are supposed to take this seriously when they use Dan Savage as a sponsor?  Dan Savage is a hateful, vile person.  In a spectacular irony, he infamously led to the coining of the term “Santorum” to describe the disgusting byproducts of a gay sex act: "the frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the by-product of anal sex."

He was trying to get back at former Senator Santorum for labeling homosexual acts as sinful, but Savage didn’t realize the net result of his name-calling.  After all, it is Savage’s disgusting byproduct that is the problem. Assigning someone else’s name to your filthy output doesn’t demean them, it demeans you.  What self-mockery!

So any "Christian" movement that is unequally yoked with a Christ-hating bully like Savage should be ignored.

Apparently the wolves got warm and took off their sheep's clothing, because the NALT "Christians" aren't even trying here.

Rationalist
Rationalist

A true born again Bible believing Christ following Christian will do believe what God says is right in His Word. If a gay person turns to Christ for forgiveness in true repentance, they will not want to return to the gay lifestyle - it will be the old life, as 2 Cor. 5:17 says "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come".

If anyone still willingly persists in (name the sin) after they've "come to Christ", with no conviction by the Holy Spirit that what they are doing is wrong, they have every reason in the world to question the authenticity of their salvation.

Rationalist
Rationalist

Here's the real agenda -

Demanding tolerance gave way to demanding equality which gave way to demanding recognition which is now giving way to demanding superiority.

So much for the Stonewall excuse that all they wanted was to be "left alone"...

Gay fascists won't be satisfied until they've silenced every opposition - especially true born again Bible believing Christians...

Examine evidence where Christianity is being intimidated through bullying, threats, intimidation, laws or lawsuits - Christian business owners who are approached by gay couples trying to force them into compromising their beliefs and then suing them when they won't...gays picketing churches who's ministers preach that homosexuality is a sin - does that sound like "tolerance" ?

It's happening more and more - so it's not just about marriage equality anymore - it's about eradicating any ideology that disagrees with homosexuality.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10: “Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”

KeithDiggs
KeithDiggs

Romans 1:22-32

King James Version (KJV)

22 Professing themselves to be WISE, they became FOOLS,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also GAVE THEM UP to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto VILE AFFECTIONS: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is UNSEEMLY, and receiving IN themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a REPROBATE mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are WORTHY OF DEATH not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10

  (NIV)

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will NOT inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED:  Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers NOR MEN WHO HAVE SEX WITH MEN  

10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.  


PERIOD.

swamptime
swamptime

Let's face this right now:  

The human leaders of most organized religions think that sex is dirty and that sex must be controlled; that sex should only be used for procreation and not for pleasure.  This is about *controlling* people for the benefit of those human leaders of organized religion. 

ScooterVanNeuter
ScooterVanNeuter

Are these the same "Christians" that also promote the Christian "swingers" movement?

Anyone can call themselves a Christian in an attempt to further their cause. Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light, and evil is usually wrapped in something sweet.

AhContraire
AhContraire

Are homosexual acts really the same as being left-handed or right-handed?
Are homosexual acts really the same as having black skin color or white skin color?
Are homosexual acts really the same as having curly hair or straight hair?

Or, are homosexual acts really the same as being UNCLEAN or CLEAN?

That is, Doesn't the medical community recommend that you, "Wash your hands after you go to the bathroom."?

Yet, now there are some in the medical community that now say it's OK to "Sleep with the waste that gets flushed down in the toilet?"and that it's possible to live a perfectly normal life.


And for you who are not males
And for those who think lesbians are least likely to get AIDS, the CDC says that HPV is on the rise from unclean practices.
http://www.cdc.gov/hpv/

And for you medical students:
That orifice, where #2 objects are expelled from, is meant to have objects pass in one direction only and very very infrequently. Certainly not in two directions and certainly not at high speed, nor with high repetitions. Yet if this happens, then that skin has a tendency to tear easily, hence, blood to feces contact, which is a medically dangerous contact.

The orifice where #2 objects are expelled was "born that way", just in case you didn't
know.

delta5297
delta5297

Even if one thinks that the Bible does say that homosexuality is a sin, it shouldn't matter. The Bible also says "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" and yet we allow the practice of other religions in America besides Christianity. Should the first Commandment take precedence over the First Amendment?

SteveHill
SteveHill

Pure hypocrisy.  You cannot be gay and a Christian: the two are mutually exclusive.  Nor is it just an Old Testament problem.  St Paul says (Romans 1) that gays "deserve death".  I am an atheist and have many gay friends.  One of the many reasons I am an atheist is because I have no time for anybody who thinks St Paul might have a point.

ChingmakWChang
ChingmakWChang

@TIME : The greatest mistake ever, the christian make in this century will be this!

ChingmakWChang
ChingmakWChang

@BrenLizHen @TIME Is it in the part of Christians to make unethical ethical? immoral moral? Christians must not misinterpret Bible.

united_we_stand
united_we_stand

Gay rights advocates assert if the Church does not approve their lifestyle it is persecuting them. The Church does not approve fantasizing about anyone other then your spouse. The Church does not approve lying but everyone does from time to time. The Church says we are all sinners, so anyone can make the claim of being hated on and persecuted for who they are by the Church. Christians may have personal opinions which sins are worse but no Christian can authoritatively say that someone who is homosexual is more immoral then anyone else if sexual preferences is the only information they have. 

LenSimpson
LenSimpson

People don't choose this lifestyle , it is in their genes. Minds that are narrow, and  shallow, do not understand this.

ChingmakWChang
ChingmakWChang

The greatest and the dangerous mistake of the CHRISTIANS of this century will be 'this'! 

Gay and Lesbian is not biblical, it is not godly. it is immoral and unhygienic. those friends who are ministering to them must make those Gay realize the purpose of a true human being; and get them repented. 

DotVardsveen
DotVardsveen

It's hard to believe people say they are Christians and say the Bible doesn't say anything against the gay and lesbian lifestyle. It most certainly does in the OT and the NT. I have known and worked with gay people and I enjoyed being around them and working with them but the lifestyle will not allow a relationship with the One and Only God of this world. I know the majority of people don't agree with this but it is true. I have to question this group of people being "Christians".

MissH
MissH

Better late than never, I suppose.  The blatant persecution of gay people by so called "loving", "moral", religious people is a disgusting thing I've witnessed for years.  On behalf of me and my wonderful gay friends and neighbors, thanks a bunch to the Christians who are nice, and to the rest of them - grow up you pathetic, moronic, bigots.

jrp77sen
jrp77sen

@eMatters2 Dan savage is a hateful, vile person? That totally explains why he has whole program set up called the "Trevor Project" that prevents suicides from LGBT youth who are exposed to people like you and your ignorance. He has done more for youth who are struggling than you ever will.

C'mon now.

LeahPetersen
LeahPetersen

@Rationalist Bullying and threats, intimidation and lawsuits? Until the average Christian has to live in fear of being beaten, assaulted, and even killed for being Christian, until they live in secrecy and shame and have to hide their faith in order to be treated as an equal human beings, then your point is weak at best, moot to anyone who isn't filtering life through the lens of thins-is-what-I-want-to-think-facts-be-damned.

No one's trying to make you gay, they just DO want to be left alone to live by their feelings and beliefs, just like you do.

But not being annoyed or frustrated or even disgusted by people around you is not a right that you're now being denied. Your desire to have the world the way you prefer does not trump their right to equal protection under law.

Sorry if you misunderstood.

LeahPetersen
LeahPetersen

@KeithDiggs Paul also said that women should be silent and listen to their husbands and hold no position of authority over a man. So what are you doing about this abomination of women voting and holding public office?

Possibly you should look into that one about the straw and the rafter. It's easy to condemn someone else's sin.

neilinphilly
neilinphilly

@swamptime Umm...quite the contrary. Generally evangelicals not only believe that sex is for procreation but recreation. Catholics believe that it's only for procreation. Paul the Apostle writes about it in 1 Corinthians 7:1-5 that a man and woman are not to abstain from sexual intimacy except in a time of prayer. 

georgeolds
georgeolds

@AhContraire 1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. Yes.

4. "To him that esteemeth a thing unclean, to him it is unclean. Let each be persuaded in their own mind. Call NOTHING that I have created unclean."

5. Marriage has nothing to do with going to the bathroom. Gay people don't "sleep with waste". (Your delusions are showing again.)

6. "That orifice" is used for sexual purposes by far many more heterosexuals than homosexuals.

7. Enjoy your liestyle.

8. Have a nice day.

georgeolds
georgeolds

@delta5297 RE: " Should the first Commandment take precedence over the First Amendment?"

Only to religionists and theocrats.

Good post.

georgeolds
georgeolds

@SteveHill Paul said a lot of stupid things that thinking people reject today.

But your opening sentence is incorrect. Many  gay people are members of Christian faiths, and several Christian faiths perform same-sex marriages.

georgeolds
georgeolds

@united_we_stand Your first sentence is not true. Re: your 2nd sentence, since gay couples are getting married, they ARE having sex with their spouse.

BLMBaH
BLMBaH

@LenSimpson Must've missed the earth shattering news from the medical community discovering the homosexual genome encoded on human DNA.  Can't find it anywhere.  Not on google, bing, or even JAMA.  Must be nice to have yourself convinced of lies, misinformation, and believing the very narrative/talking pts. that you repeat incessantly over and over again.  You are a pathetic fool to believe "it is in their genes".

MissH
MissH

@ChingmakWChang - The biggest mistake Christians make is thinking they have a right to tell other adults how to behave based on their own personal religious convictions.  You want to be a decent person?  Go help poor people all over the world, and quit telling other people what to do.

swamptime
swamptime

@DotVardsveen  "the [gay] lifestyle will not allow a relationship with the One and Only God of this world."

So some sinners can have a relationship with the One and Only God, and some can't?  Which sinners can have a relationship with the One and Only God?

georgeolds
georgeolds

@DotVardsveen It isn't a lifestyle. And you are very much mistaken if you actually believe that being gay "will not allow a relationship with" God. There are millions of LGBTQ people of faith - which is WHY "the majority of people don't agree with" you.

Fritzle
Fritzle

@MissH I'm used to the intolerance levelled at "pathetic, moronic bigots" like me.  This comment is itself bigotted.  But so many "enlightened" people hold it.  I myself held it -- until I pastored a gay church.  That experience made me take another look at what the bible says about homosexuality.  I had to eat humble pie and admit that maybe the bible knows more than I do -- or my hyper-sexed culture does -- about the true nature of love.   

AhContraire
AhContraire

@georgeolds@AhContraireYou are going to have to face the new facts and the new logic here as it appears some in the LGBT are in DENIAL with this "wash your hands after you go to the bathroom" argument.

Face the facts. The left-right handedness and the black-white skin color arguments are now officially void with the unclean and clean argument.

Do not be surprised there will be VIDEO EDUCATION of WHAT MEDICALLY UNCLEAN IS and the PHYSICAL and BIOLOGICAL PROPERTIES of the #2 ORIFICE and why it was "born that way".

I suggest you explore these alternatives::

Rabbis to match homosexuals, lesbians - New Web initiative to help religious gays find partner for procreation purposes – as long as they promise to try to change their sexual orientation
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4112336,00.html


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/09/03/israeli-rabbi-sets-up-orthodox-jewish-gay-men-with-orthodox-jewish-lesbians/

AhContraire
AhContraire

@georgeolds@AhContraire

#4 CLEAN and UNCLEAN in CONTEXT:

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. Let not then your good be evil spoken of: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. - Romans 14: 14-17


In other words, it's talking about FOOD, not HUMAN WASTE.


AhContraire
AhContraire

@georgeolds@AhContraire

#4 Well, who is calling human waste UNCLEAN? Is it me? Or is it every medical group, restaurant, food service, grocery store, school, hospital and so on?

By the way, Why are there hand washing sinks in bathrooms?

#5 "Gay people don't "sleep with waste."
So how did AIDS become an epidemic? And more so in gay men than others. And why is HPV and oral cancer on the rise according to the CDC? Why did Michael Douglas say that oral sex caused him oral cancer?

#6 The "just-because-everyone-else-is-doing-it" argument does not make sleeping with the waste in the toilet any less medically dangerous.


#7 Why does the homosexual lifestyle advertise, "it gets better"?

#8 Thanks for taking the time to reply!


Rationalist
Rationalist

@georgeolds@SteveHill

"For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to
him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

 You've just proven what the Bible  says is true - your foolish heart is indeed darkened to the point where you don't know the difference between good or evil...

robertkchacon
robertkchacon

@MissH @ChingmakWChang You just told other people what to do! Christians have a right to preach whatever they feel fit, just as any other group. They have the right to make laws according to those beliefs. Just as you have the right to oppose!

georgeolds
georgeolds

@Fritzle The Bible doesn't say ANYTHING about homosexuality as we know it today. Heck, the very word "homosexuality" wasn't even coined until about 100 years ago. There are only 2 passages that refer to same-sex sex - Leviticus and Romans.

Leviticus says many things that we ignore today - and that is largely because the Holiness Code was written for priests of the Levite tribe. But I doubt anyone would take seriously its telling us to put disobedient children and non-virgin brides to death, nor that we should deny communion to the disabled. Most people disagree that eating shrimp and lobster is "an abomination".

And in the NT, only Paul had any words to say, and they are seen as condemnations of homosexual lust, homosexual rape, and homosexual temple prostitution, none of which is what we understand of loving, committed, adult, consenting human relations today among gay people.

Christ was silent on the topic. If I were you, I'd take the hint and do likewise.

Besides, America isn't a theocracy. It isn't governed by the Bible.

If you actually "pastored a gay church", you sure don't seem to know much about the Biblical scholarship about the topic.

MissH
MissH

@Fritzle- It's not bigoted to call a bigot a bigot.  The American Psychiatric Association and every single reputable professional organization of psychiatric professionals around the world agrees that in the words of the APA - "evidence supports the conclusion that homosexuality is a normal expression of human sexuality that is not chosen, that gay and lesbian people form stable, committed relationships that are equivalent to heterosexual relationships in essential respects..."  Did you get that part?  One more time - "homosexuality is a normal expression of human sexuality".  That is the fact of the matter.  Some humans are gay, and it's always been that way and always will be, and that's normal.  If you want to support your common and tiresome prejudice by trusting a 2000 year old book written by bronze-age sheep herders to have better information than the very best, most thorough and rigorous science the modern world has to offer, that's fine with me.  But you're pathetic and moronic for willfully ignoring facts.  And I'm afraid you'll just have to suck it up when people like me point this out.  

nedlum
nedlum

@AhContraire @georgeoldsYeah, that's not context. The context is Peter wondering whether to let a Roman Centurion into the church, receiving a vision of trafe food, endorsed by God, then allowing the Roman into the church. 

Metaphor. Do you speak it? 

AhContraire
AhContraire

@georgeolds
Spread by Unprotected Sex?
That means you imply dangerous sex, correct?
So, why is unprotected sex,  'dangerous'?


The orifice where #2 objects are expelled has a far thinner skin than the orifice where babies come from. The orifice where babies come from also produces secretions to minimize friction during baby making aka known as love making, which is very unlike the previously mentioned orifice.

That orifice, where #2 objects are expelled from, is meant to have objects pass in one direction only and pass very very infrequently. And certainly not in two directions and certainly not at high speed, nor with high repetitions. Yet if this happens, then that thin skin has a tendency to tear easily, hence, blood to feces contact, which is a medically dangerous contact.

The orifice where #2 objects are expelled was "born that way", just in case you didn't know.

georgeolds
georgeolds

@AhContraire Not sure why YOU are discussing human waste on a thread about marriage in the first place.

AIDS became an epidemic because the Human Immunodeficiency Virus was spread by way of unprotected sex. Which has nothing to do with human waste. (You could look this up.)

georgeolds
georgeolds

@robertkchacon No, she simply repeated what Jesus told people to do.

No one has the "right to make laws according to [religious] beliefs - per the 1st Amendment.

georgeolds
georgeolds

@robertkchacon RE: " Christ said we are not to condemn  or deny ones dignity or assume his relationship with Christ."

You do precisely that.

Re: "He said we must follow the Law"

Caesar's law. (I.E. the secular law - which is what marriage is.)

You're a crappy 'preacher'.

Your posts have been anything BUT "civil". All they are is condemnatory, judgmental sanctimonious faux-pious claptrap.

Re: "And of course you are welcome to your belief. I obviously think you are wrong. "

Ditto right back at you. (See how this works yet?)

robertkchacon
robertkchacon

@georgeolds @robertkchacon @Fritzle So what if he didnt?? He didnt come to point out every sin whether is was around or not. (and theft was around which is what I was referring to by Wall St.) He said we must follow the Law and that included statements against homosexuality. Furthermore his Apostles and bible writers did speak for Him and they did speak against homosexuality. 

I never said we are not to judge sin. Christ said we are not to condemn  or deny ones dignity or assume his relationship with Christ. But we are most certainly called to be able distinguish righteousness from sin and preach about it. I condemn no ones dignity or assume his righteousness in Christ. But Christ clearly taught us to speak out against what is sin. That is all I am doing. I

And of course you are welcome to your belief. I obviously think you are wrong. And I also think denying a child a mother and a father is wrong.


But I do like your "Have a nice lifestyle" Clever, whether i agree or not, its funny and keeps the discussion civil . thanks!

georgeolds
georgeolds

@robertkchacon  @Fritzle Wall street wasn't around in the Bronze Age. Gay people were. If it was a concern to Him, He would have mentioned it. But He didn't.

If you actually believe He doesn't want us to judge others, then why do you do it? You're hardly 'qualified'.

Sorry, you're welcome to your beliefs, but mine do not teach me that committing to another person in marriage IS "sinful behavior".

Have a nice lifestyle, Robert.

robertkchacon
robertkchacon

@georgeolds @Fritzle Sir, you are simply wrong. It is a myth that the homosexual condemnations were only about some arcane temple rituals and rape. They were clearly about consenting adults choosing their own sex over heterosexual relationships. I dont need to give you a scripture passage. Theyve been cited in this post already.  And as a devout Jew Christ supported these restrictions on homosexuality. He may not have said explicitly "homosexuality is a sin" but then he never said Wall St. market manipulation is a sin either. His Apostles tell us what He wanted us to know, and the Apostles through the bible are clear - homosexuality is against Gods will.  Christ did want us to love EVERYONE and not judge others. But that does not mean we cannot identify sinful behavior and admonish it. 

robertkchacon
robertkchacon

@MissH  Who cares what APA has to say?  The APA is a homosexual infiltrated joke of a professional organization that abandons scientific methodology for political correctness. There is nothing scientifically rigorous about the conclusions on homosexuality produced by the APA. Just consider that first statement you quote.  "Homosexuality is a normal expression of human sexuality ... equivalent in essential respects" .  What about THE essential nature of sexuality.  Homosexual sex reproduces  nothing.  Yes, heterosexual sex is also about mutual physical pleasure and bonding. But that bonding is for one major purpose...stable parenting of children. Who cares if two homosexuals stay married  or not? If  they choose to adopt, they deny a child the right to a mother and a father.  That alone makes homosexuality and resulting relationships anything but "normal". In any event , "normal" has nothing to do with morality. The  APAs assessment of homosexuality has nothing to do with morality.  One can be completely normal psychologically and be perfectly detestable human being! Science has NOTHING to say about what is right and wrong. I am not saying any of this justifies ANY bigotry or hatred. But, it also doesnt justify the bigotry and hatred coming from those who support gay rights toward those of us who oppose gay "marriage" and the right to gay adoptions.  Its easy for you to yell "pathetic moron" at people who oppose you.  Fine, Im a pathetic moron. But if being a pathetic moron means I am concerned about children having both a mother and a father, then bring it on...I am a MORON! And yes, that means, I am very concerned about straight parents who divorce , and single people, straight or gay, who adopt children.  No fault divorce has done nothing but destroy the family. So enough with the name calling and vitriol. Can we start having a civil debate on this issue?