Morning Must Reads: August 6

In the news: The Washington Post is sold; citizens are told to leave Yemen; a Obamacare deadline looms; and the mayhem sewn by Snowden appears to have been overstated.

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Mark Wilson / Getty Images

The early morning sun rises behind the US Capitol Building in Washington, DC.

480 comments
forgottenlord
forgottenlord

@ahandout 

The stupid thing won't load more comments, but I just want to say something:

When we say that a Mercedes costs more than a Corolla, we generally have statistics to prove that the Mercedes actually performs better than the Corolla.  But in every measurable way, Canada's health care system is better than the US's.  This isn't Mercedes vs Corolla, this is a Pinto dressed up as a Mercedes versus a Corolla.

nflfoghorn
nflfoghorn

You guys are suprised that I actually said something nice about Nixon.  Wow.

forgottenlord
forgottenlord

@ahandout 

I will give you this.  If we took the American Thinker's ideas about health care, the cost of health care and the per-capita expenditure on health care would fall.

But the average life expectancy would tumble.  The infant mortality rate would skyrocket.  The percentage of the working poor who die or become permanently disabled would skyrocket.  And the reason is that without even basic health insurance.  Poverty rates will skyrocket.  The percentage of elderly who are abused by swindlers would jump.

People

Will

Die

If you are willing to accept those consequences, then I respect your position.  But these are the consequences of those positions, and they are the other half of the ever present debate surrounding price controls: at what point is social welfare more important?

notsacredh
notsacredh

nfl, it's time to quit pounding D!ck. 

forgottenlord
forgottenlord

@nflfoghorn 

He did one thing wrong, therefore he is eternally bad and evil and everything he did was wrong.  Thus is their way

mantisdragon91
mantisdragon91

@paulejb The media also forgot to mention the Corruption Scandal in VA or the fact that the GOP Congress has yet do anything productive.

mantisdragon91
mantisdragon91

@paulejb 40,000 a year are dying now because they can't get insurance. Rightist Troll Paule shrugs.

mantisdragon91
mantisdragon91

@paulejb Death Panels are already here. Every time the insurance companies refuse to cover a procedure that is a Death Panel.

ahandout
ahandout

@forgottenlord @nflfoghorn  I see, so now you approve of the bombing of N. Viet Nam and the expansion of the war into Cambodia, Laos, Thailand.  The use of the IRS to punish his enemies, that enemies list.  The lying.  The failed policies of price controls.  That he abused his presidential powers...

Obama is very similar.

Then there is the fact that he was behind the use of the national guard at Kent State that lead to the shooting of 4 students. 

MrObvious
MrObvious

@ahandout @forgottenlord

One of the top causes of death is getting medical care.  People DO die.

So not doing something about a terminal illness or injury is less worse then doing something about it?

forgottenlord
forgottenlord

@ahandout

Yes, he did a lot of things.  But nobody talks about those things unless actually challenged, everyone just talks about Watergate.  The real truth is far more complicated and boiling it down to a simple event - or even a listing of every bad decision he ever made - does not really tell the whole story.  The US nearly got a Single Payer health care system under Nixon.  Nixon going to China may have been one of the biggest shifts in the very nature of the Cold War and had a huge impact on its path forward - breaking the Communist bloc and changing the very nature of the war.  For all the bad he did there was just as much good.

I could boil Bush down to Iraq or Katrina but it would be at the cost of recognizing the things he tried to do and the man he was - I think Bush tried to be a good guy and tried to do his best but was over his head and slowly realized that the people around him, the people he trusted, were slowly leading him to ruin and I think it astonished him as much as it astonished everyone else when his friends let him down.  His decisions and actions were complex in nature and motive.

You could try to boil down Obama to ObamaCare or to Benghazi or a dozen other Republican talking points but, again, you are doing it at the cost of recognizing who he was - and you fail that every single time.  Obama's one of the most honest guys ever to enter the White House, doing what he believes is right and trying to find a path forward.  He has run an absolutely astounding government as far as corruption and waste are concerned - not to say that there's none, but that it has been far lower as a percentage of spending than nearly any other President could ever lay claim to.  His scandals have been manufactured and once dug through have been proven to be anything but.  He's an idealist and an administrator but not a transformative that we once hoped.  He's complex and thoughtful and trying his best.

But you will never see it because you only see that which defines him as bad.  Just as you found a list of everything that makes Nixon bad.  That's who you are: someone who decides whether something is good or bad and then creates the evidence to support your argument and ignores all evidence to the contrary.  You are without thought or reason - existing only in the world of dogma to prove your belief and detached completely from reality.  You see only black and white and refuse to recognize the world of gray.  You have no dilemmas, no uncertainties, no qualms, no concerns: just anger, rage and certitude that you're always right.  Your arrogance will one day be your undoing if it hasn't already.  Until then, you will waste your time arguing with people you could never hope to match in wit or intelligence, certain in your own supremacy and ignorant of how stupid you sound.  Paulie is a troll, dismantled by logic he recognizes and capable of be outmaneuvered.  You are something quite different: you are a moron and I relish every opportunity to prove it again, and again, and again.  Thank you for making my life more enjoyable.

ahandout
ahandout

@nflfoghorn

Your public school history class won't tell you the story of Tricky D!ck Nixon.

That nickname sends you to pending.  That's what we called him.  But, we were much more informed and aware than kids today.

nflfoghorn
nflfoghorn

@ahandout @forgottenlord @nflfoghorn Keep it up and you'll get me to spit out something good about Eisenhower and Reagan.  Actually, I could say a lot of good things about Ike--'specially since I wasn't born yet.

notsacredh
notsacredh

Sometimes I really hate looking like a Klansman.

notsacredh
notsacredh

@MrObvious, the MIL was nodding her head each time he hit a GOP talking point. The guy was oblivious. I mentioned that I was going to be off the next couple of days to try to get him off of politics but he was wasn't getting the hint. He asked me what I had planned and I told him I was going to burn copies of the Bible and the Constitution.

notsacredh
notsacredh

@MrObvious, we were sitting in his office and he kept making stupid compliments to my MIl. He was saying how young she looked, what a nice outfit she had on and how nice her perfume smelled. He'd wink at me after each compliment. I asked him if he was trying to get in my pants.

notsacredh
notsacredh

@MrObvious, we went to go look at another car for my MIL after I got off work today and the salesman went off on liberals, socialists and atheists ruining the country. I told him I worked for the government too. We didn't buy the car.

notsacredh
notsacredh

@MrObvious, but the people that lose elections have no recourse. Oh sure, there's always winning the NEXT election, but what if you lose that too?

MrObvious
MrObvious

@forgottenlord @paulejb

 You cannot not replace the government.

Weird, I thought that is what elections are for. 'Wingers are sure a stupid breed.

forgottenlord
forgottenlord

@ahandout

The things the poor don't deserve from medicine make up a tiny fraction of the cost of health care.  They deserve basic care, they deserve to be able to find out if they have the common cold, influenza, bronchitis or pneumonia.  They deserve to find out if they have diabetes or cancer or HIV.  They deserve to receive treatments as appropriate for the above.  They deserve all of the basic immunizations.  They deserve to have their legs set and bones fixed.  They deserve to have basic mental health needs addressed.  They deserve prenatal care.  They deserve basic dental and vision care and the ability to see where they're going and eat their food.  And all of these things lead to more productive workers, a healthier society, a reduction in the spread of disease, and lower costs in the long run (an ounce of prevention or a pound of cure)

Plastic surgery, contact lenses, Lasik - those can be bonuses - things that improve quality of life but aren't necessary for basic health and prosperity.  But those are minor things, often not chargeable to your health insurance anyways.

ahandout
ahandout

@Ohiolib @ahandout @nflfoghorn @MrObvious @forgottenlord  Everybody dies.  You were born with a death sentence, sorry.

I have seen poor people survive multiple surgeries and live long lives, and the extremely rich die 6 short weeks after being diagnosed with cancer.  Nobody knows the number of days that they have. 

nflfoghorn
nflfoghorn

@ahandout @MrObvious @forgottenlord Your "facts" appear jaded at best and untrue at worst.  Getting a handle on health care saves $.  And even if it didn't, it at very least addresses the inadequacies in our health care system.  Of course you probably believe that only teh rich and famous deserve the best health care.

MrObvious
MrObvious

@ahandout @MrObvious @forgottenlord 

Personally I still believe it's the illness or accident that causes it. 

But maybe the issue isn't that healthcare leads to death - but that poor healthcare or mistakes does or even super bugs in hospitals due to a overuse of antibiotics?

Doing nothing will all but guarantee a much swifter death then doing something. I'm sure reasonable people will understand that, but hey - we can't all be reasonable.