Jimmy Carter: A Sunday Interview

In a wide-ranging interview, the former president calls on Catholics to accept female priests, America to denounce the death penalty and Obama to stay out of the Syrian war

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Soe Zeya / Reuters

Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter delivers a speech in Yangon, Burma, on April 5, 2013.

Let’s get right to it. This week the Carter Center’s Mobilizing Faith for Women conference will ask the question, “Can religion be a force for women’s rights instead of a source of women’s oppression?” What’s your answer?

Well, religion can be, and I think there’s a slow, very slow, move around the world to give women equal rights in the eyes of God. What has been the case for many centuries is that the great religions, the major religions, have discriminated against women in a very abusive fashion and set an example for the rest of society to treat women as secondary citizens. In a marriage or in the workplace or wherever, they are discriminated against. And I think the great religions have set the example for that, by ordaining, in effect, that women are not equal to men in the eyes of God.

This has been done and still is done by the Catholic Church ever since the third century, when the Catholic Church ordained that a woman cannot be a priest for instance but a man can. A woman can be a nurse or a teacher but she can’t be a priest. This is wrong, I think. As you may or may not know, the Southern Baptist Convention back now about 13 years ago in Orlando, voted that women were inferior and had to be subservient to their husbands, and ordained that a woman could not be a deacon or a pastor or a chaplain or even a teacher in a classroom in some seminaries where men are in the classroom, boys are in the classroom. So my wife and I withdrew from the Southern Baptist Convention primarily because of that.

But I now go to a more moderate church in Plains, a small church, it’s part of the Cooperative Baptist fellowship, and we have a male and a female pastor, and we have women and have men who are deacons. My wife happens to be one of the deacons.

So some of the Baptists are making progress, along with Methodists. For instance the other large church in Plains is a Methodist church, and they have a man for the last eight years and the next pastor they get will be a woman. They’ve had a woman pastor before, before the Baptists did. And of course the Episcopalians and other denominations that are Protestant do permit women or encourage women to be bishops, as you know, and pastors.

In the Islamic world that varies widely depending on what the regime is in the capital. Sometimes they try to impose very strict law, misquoting I think the major points of the Qur’an, and they ordain that a woman is inferior inherently. Ten year old girls can be forced to marry against their wishes, and that women can be treated as slaves in a marriage, and that a woman can’t drive an automobile, some countries don’t let women vote, like Saudi Arabia.

Others are much more moderate. I would say Turkey is more moderate and Indonesia is more moderate. Some of the countries in which we’ve held elections these last couple years have been more moderate, like Libya and Tunisia, they are trying to reach out to women. Egypt is doing a little bit, not enough, so I think that this ordination, you might say of religious leaders, that women are inherently inferior before God, and also the turning of our society almost all over the world to much more dependence on violence, are the two things that shape the negative aspects of what we are trying to address in this conference.

The Carter Center and I personally are very deeply opposed to the death penalty. But when the United States government and its Constitution says that people can be put to death, that sets an example of extreme violence that very few other developed, industrialized nations would have. There is no country for instance in Europe that would permit the death penalty, but we do.

And I think the other thing is that the United States has been almost constantly at war now for the last 60 years ever since the Second World War. The United States has been almost constantly at war with somebody, and we are now talking about going to war in Syria, or maybe I guess Iran. And we are just coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and we were involved in all kinds of wars in the past, about 14 or 15 of them. The only time that we weren’t by the way, was when I was at president, and I was committed to strength and peace.

But anyway, I say that the emphasis of condoning of violence on the general population, and the denigration of women as inferior, those are the two things we are going to address in this conference.

What Scripture guides your work on women’s rights?

The one that I look on most is the Letter from Paul to the Galatians, when he says there is no difference in the eyes of God between a man and a woman, and between a slave and a master, or between a Jew and a Gentile, they are all created in the eyes of God equally. That’s a primary verse.

But there are a lot of them, for instance if you look at some of the verses I think in Romans, I can’t remember exactly, maybe Acts, or Romans in the 16th chapter, Paul delineates a lot of top leaders in the church and about a third of them are women. So I think in the original status of the Christian church, women played a very important role, even in the leadership role. And then after about the third century when men took over control of the Catholic Church, then they began to ordain that women had to play an inferior position, not be a priest.

How can mobilizing religious communities for women’s rights produce results?

To repeat myself in a way, I think that what the major religious leaders say is used by others who discriminate against women as justification for their human rights abuse. For instance if an employer, who might be otherwise enlightened, if he is a religious person and he sees that, he might be a Catholic, and a Catholic does not let women be priests, then why should he pay his women employees an equal pay [as men]?

In the United States that prevails all over. We have an average now of about 70% that a woman earns compared to a 100% that a man earns for doing the same job. And very few of the corporate boards have I think 50% women. Very few of them. And of course we have a very few percentage of women in our House of Representatives and in our Senate. We never yet had a woman president, but I think that’s going to come in the near future. But I think in general terms this is a very derogating thing.

It is much worse in some of the third world countries where genital cutting is condoned and girls are forced to marry when they are as young as 8 or 10 years old and they have no voice in who their husband might be or when they get married. And you see the extreme case with Al Qaeda and particularly with the Taliban in Afghanistan. So these are the kind of things that permeate society in a very general way and it afflicts almost every single community in America and almost throughout the world. There is a sense that women are not quite equal to men both politically and economically and in religious terms.

You mentioned Syria. What do you think President Obama, who is an avowed Christian, should be doing regarding the crisis in Syria?

Well, what I advocated 18 months ago was that we not go to war in Syria, but that we try to ordain an election and let both sides enter the election and let the Syrian people make a choice of who they want to be their president. As you know this is the position that the United Nations has taken, it is the position that the Arab League took early on, it is the position that Russia and China still take, and it is the position that our two Special Envoys, who I know quite well, [Former U.N. Secretary-General] Kofi Annan, and Lakhdar Brahimi, have tried to put forward.

But the United States has taken a position from the very beginning, 18 months, almost two years ago, that the first step in this process had to be Assad stepping down and he’s not about to step down. So we have blocked any other move toward a peaceful resolution until last month, when John Kerry met with the foreign minister of Russia, and they decided to have peace talks. But we have not been very enthusiastic about that and I doubt if they are going to take place.

I noticed the conference draws participants from all over the world and no one is coming from Syria or Iran. I’m wondering with respect to Iran, what do you think Iranians could learn from this conference?

In general the Shia religion, which is Iranian, has been more progressive on women’s rights than some of the Sunni countries.

But I don’t know that the Iranians would come to a conference that I sponsored or that is in the United States. I doubt it, but I would like very much to see our country and Iran heal wounds between us. As a matter of fact when the shah was overthrown by the Ayatollah Khomeini, I immediately established diplomatic relations with Iran, and that lasted until they captured, as you know, our hostages, who were diplomats.

Do you think there is such a thing as an Iranian moderate today?

Oh sure, I am sure there are. As a matter of fact you have seen the news reports that of the six candidates that the Ayatollah permitted to run, this was the most moderate who was chosen, and it’s because he knew the West and he had been making some reasonable statements at the conferences on the nuclear issue.

So I think the Ayatollah is very careful not to let any liberals or extreme moderates get on the voting list, but at least this was the most moderate, which shows that there are a lot of moderate voters in Iran, that when they had the choice between hardliners and so-called moderates, even if it is a comparative statement, they went for the moderate.

One last question. You mentioned hopefully we’ll get a woman president soon–

Yes.

What about Hillary Clinton in 2016?

I’m not going to comment on that. We supported Obama in the last election. Good luck to you.

Thank you so much, Mr. President.

Jimmy Carter was the 39th president of the United States. The Carter Center’s Mobilizing Faith for Women conference will be held in Atlanta from June 27 to June 29.

 

250 comments
jenny000
jenny000

Totally agree with Jim Carter.

candlelake
candlelake

Oppression comes in many forms and often the oppressed don’t even know they are being oppressed.

Thank you Jimmy Carter for addressing women’s rights in the world.President Carter basically states that women are equal in the eyes of God and that the world religions are making slow progress towards recognizing and ordaining this equality.Our Declaration of Independence asserts equality as a truth:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

axemole
axemole

I call on Mr. Carter to stay off drugs before opening his mouth.

amhayes
amhayes

I don't understand why Mr. Carter would single out Catholocism when his own denomination, Southern Baptist, doesn't not allow the ordination of women, as well as many other religions. I don't see how this can be compared to a Human Right's abuse either. I was really disappointed to read these remarks. I always respected Jimmy Carter, but I think there is another agenda in the works here stemming from the present administration and their current stance with the Catholic Church in regards to HHS mandate and Obama's pro-abortion agenda.

MSmouse
MSmouse

On what planet does Mr. Carter's idea make any sense at all? Can you imagine if an ex pro football player started dictating who should be starting in a pro basketball game? Golly, Mr. Carter... pride much??

Why does a non-Catholic think he has any right to tell the Catholic Church what it must do? Especially when he claims that he is giving rights in the eyes of God - as if he, Jiimy Carter, can change God's opinion!?!??!!?

Since when does an ex-president's opinion on "equal rights" trump our duty to God? Hint: truth does not change. A priest in the Catholic Church is male. This cannot change. It doesn't matter how many famous people chime in with their opinions, they cannot change what Jesus, Himself, established.

I seem to remember something about freedom of religion, somewhere... Doesn't that apply, even to former Presidents?

frjohn
frjohn

Since Mr. Carter is not a member of the Catholic Church or any other Church like the Orthodox and more traditional Protestants who do not ordain women, it is really none of his business to tell other religious groups what to believe and how to practice their beliefs. There are valid theological reasons why Catholics and Orthodox do not ordain women. The priest is an icon of Jesus Christ during the Eucharist. Jesus Christ was a man, therefor His icon must represent a man. However, women can be empowered in other ways besides the ordained ministry, serving on the Parish Council and managing the financial affairs of the parish, for example. It is a fallacy to believe that the ordained clergy are superior to the faithful.

trytoseeitmyway
trytoseeitmyway

Carter says, "there’s a slow, very slow, move around the world to give women equal rights in the eyes of God."  Boy, if there were anything I needed to hear to convince me that Jimmy Carter is not a theological resource, that one would be it.  Churches or people or movements can't possibly "give" rights or anything "in the eyes of God."  Only God's will is important, and He does not receive His will from His children.  

It would be possible to experience a growing understanding that women are seen equally with men in God's eyes.  That understanding would be important to have.  But that's not what Carter said.  He said there was a move to "give" women equal rights "in the eyes of God."  That's just dumb.  Which is what we might expect from a foolishly sanctimonious guy like Jimmy Carter.

Spiritual equality and "equal rights" aren't the same things either.  When does the Bible speak of our "rights" in God's eyes?  Isn't it our right to be condemned to hell, but for the grace of Jesus?  I don't think that equal rights in God's eyes is anything any of us want to claim!  I think we hope for equal mercy and equal grace and equal redemption by the blood of the Lamb.

But here I am trying to teach theology to an idiot on the Internet.  Sorry.



APOBEACHAIN
APOBEACHAIN

Southern Baptists do not ordain women even as Preachers, Most also think that Catholicism is a fake pagan religion. Jimmy did invite Pope JP11 to the White House - JFK had to contort his soul and mind to prove to Houston mostly Baptist Ministerial Alliance that no dogma of faith ir moral teaching would influence his Presidential decisions.  Just his "conscience." As in Christian POTUS Obama's. Changed times for sure.

noekvandiekaap
noekvandiekaap

Well then, how about turning God into a woman or at least giving him a wife. Then "He" would not have to send down the "Holy Ghost" to commit adultery with "Mary" in order to have a son?  Plus minus half the world 's population are women. Gee! That's an awful lot of spare ribs, hay?  Remove all males from religious office and replace them with women. They are better suited to religion. Religion is supposed to be love and gentleness - yin? Those testosterone loaded macho males are better suited to gridiron, and making war - yang?  Women, the "seedbeds" are naturally inclined to flee, hide and save life. Males are forever searching for nuclear devices in order to kill and, man, when that genie is let out of the bottle, the sapien specie will be gone within one hundred years.   Gentleman? - funny word, isn't it ? What the hell has the word "gentle" got to do with the word "man"?  -   Noek vanBiljon

Infinity
Infinity

I seriously don`t understand what your problem is.


Why can`t you just tell these harlots to behave, serve their husbands at home and be content with that?

Why do you play into their greed for more?


Just give them a good spanking on their buttocks and tell them to shut their pie-holes.

It is not more complicated than that.


Everyone knows that if you spare the rod, you`ll spoil the child.

Same thing with women. 


Spare the rod, spoil the wife.

So brethren, explain calmly to your wifes, sisters and daughters that you will not tollerate their bad manners anymore.


They are to be content with being wives, sisters and daughters. 

They are to be content serving their husbands, brothers and fathers in gratitude and obediance.


And they are to be thankful to God Almighty that He gave them life at all. 


Otherwise they will end up in Hell with that other discontent a s s h o l e, satan, who did not want to serve either.

There will not be one single feminist in Heaven, ever. They will all burn. Eternally.


So you are not doing anyone any favours by supporting this "Womens rights" c r a p.

A woman belongs in the home, were she is to serve her husband. Like The Church serves Christ. 

In gratitude and obediance.


It is as simple as that. So back to the kitchens and obey, or I promise you this Ladies: 

You will burn in eternal Hellfire.

For all time. Without any mercy, compassion or thought of your wellbeing, what so ever.


Have a nice day. 


rustygolfer
rustygolfer

It seems to me no one is listening to the good news John has preached. Repent!, get (your) life in order, the Kingdome is among you , and "I am not worthy to loose the straps of His sandals. If every one of us just work on that line less chit chat about what we think could and should be avoided. I find no fault in a woman desiring to be a Queen or a man finding himself in line to one day be King. Each has a roll in salvation. Lets all work at getting to Heaven 1st, then ask God why women weren't chosen to be Priest. Are we not told to be servants? the least being regarded as greater! did Christ desire to be equal with God the Father?.

Lets listen to Mary the blessed Mother, "and do everything He tells us, even if its just filling jars with water.

noekvandiekaap
noekvandiekaap

Gee whiz! Carter is my man! I don't believe in his God; but I sure believe in him! The problem starts with his God being a man? That is the excuse for the existence of Patriarchy or is it the other way round?  Either way it keeps women in subservience. Look at the way the Taliban treat women; all in the name of their God.   -   Noek vanBiljon     

OtisDog
OtisDog

I think the fullness of the situation has been missed by both Mr. Carter and the many comments I’ve read here.I have not read them all, but a good majority.

Mr. Carter is right in voicing that there is inequality among men and women in this world, and religion as a force of social order should address that.This is sound on moral and ethical grounds, and, depending on the religion, religious grounds.This is definitely so in the basic holy texts of Christianity.I’ll speak only as to his comments on Christianity from here.Where Mr. Carter falters is that he dictates what actions different Christian churches should take to address gender inequality.This disregards the doctrine and autonomy of the various religions. The call should have been made to Christian churches to make it their mission to rid society of the evil that is gender inequality and find ways to make a substantial impact in their congregations and communities. Let each church find a way to promote equality that is consistent with their theology. Churches and people have theological structures through which they view the world; they need to find a way to bridge their beliefs with actions that create an equal world. If people compromise their core integrity for a cause, they will probably not be committed to that cause.  I think it is appropriate for him to point out that many perceive women without the priesthood as women being lower than men, but it is not his place to dictate that as a solution to the larger problem.For some churches a solution is female priests.For other churches, female priesthood is completely incompatible with doctrine.Those churches surely can find a different way, and they should be asked to.

notLostInSpace
notLostInSpace

Glad to see the haters are all out there.  Means they have dropped their crayons long enough to right themselves a note for time  (no capital T and "right" are intended as the haters mostly have about a 4th grade edumacation).  What did Carter do:  first, orchestrated probably the most significant peace treaty since WW2 at Camp David;  second, was largely behind the classic deregulation efforts for air travel, trucks, rails that the Republican money folks so loved; third, suffered through an incredible economic calamity and threw himself deliberately under the bus by hiring Paul Volcker and instituting a high interest rate to put the brakes on the inflation monster that he inherited from the Nixon and Johnson "guns and butter" days (economy lessons that were not learned well when W decided he could fight unfinanced wars as well).   Ronnie Raygun gets the credit for fixing the economy but all he did was keep Volcker in office.  Not enough?  Rebuilt US credibility with South America by actually honoring our promise to return the Panama Canal.   Was honest enough to call a spade a spade ('lust in my heart'/Playboy interview and the malaise speech to cite two examples; none of the BS rah rah that we get from the right wing ("just say no to drugs", how is that working?).  A true gentleman.....let's see how the R's smoked him.....stole a copy of his briefing papers for one of the debates and rallied behind the purely selfish question ("Are you better off today than you were four years ago?".....this being when the tide truly changed in the US from us being a country that cared about others to a country where we only care about ourselves).  Here is a man that not only was a nuclear submariner (JC was a little too young for WW2 but ask what did Ronnie Raygun do during WW2?) but ran a successful business.   The right wing heckled JC for carrying his own bags, for Amy not being gorgeous, for his accent but this was a smart decent man, far better than any of the scumbags the Republicans have given us.  Carter was hobbled by the same problems of energy that we still freaking have today but he tried to start something to fix it.  If he was guilty of anything it is talking to Americans like they have some intelligence. 

MagdaleneLove
MagdaleneLove

If Jimmy would have been educated on the ways of the Catholic Church, he wouldn't have made such an uneducated remark about the Catholic Church. It would be a great thing for him to do; to know the ways of the largest Body of Christians, the original Body of Christians instituted by Christ himself. But, he doesn't. He shoots out his own prejudices against the Church, in defense of women. Women are not discriminated against in the Church. His point is ridiculous

algoldendomer
algoldendomer

Jimma, STFU, will ya?  Go build houses or sit on a rocker but you were a horrible president and we don't care what you have to say.  Your comments about Catholics and women priests are arrogant and misinformed - you're not a Catholic, you're not a Catholic bishop, you're not the Pope and, most importantly, you're not Jesus Christ.  It was the Lord who chose 12 male apostles - take it up with Him, Jimma.

garygnj
garygnj

Just curious since so many posters here describe Carter as the worst president ever.  What exactly did he do to earn that distinction? 

MannyL
MannyL

Jimmy Carter continues to be the moron of the century. 

vcommercio
vcommercio

carter!...i can't go on because i can't stop laughing.....now a "pundit on religion"?

paulejb
paulejb

Jimmy Carter - A peanut farmer with a peanut for a soul.

ardelion
ardelion

@amhayes Because anti-Catholicism is the one kind of bigotry for which Carter knows the chattering classes will not only forgive, but praise him.

JohnfromVegas
JohnfromVegas

@trytoseeitmywayThe bible doesn't speak to anyone's rights in God's eyes. The stories contained therin were written by people about their world from their own perspective and only to the extent that they could understand it. The Jewish God was a reinvention of existing mythology to explain what they couldn't. Jesus and Christianity was a further development to spread that tradition to the non-Jewish populations; and it only gained a secure foothold when Constantine needed to secure power in the expanding but unsettled Roman Empire. 


In that time when most disputes were settled on a battlefield, men (as a group) were more capable. It was a practical matter of security and logistics for women to stay out of battle to protect and raise the next generation. It was that ancient reality and the only reason for the gender roles thoughout history. They should have disappeared by now, except that we conflated the functional with the mythical and cannot easily separate them.

Today, in our modern society, men and women have many choices besides war and protecting progeny; they are no longer restricted to roles dictated by their physical attributes. Unfortunately, religion still maintains a vice-like grip on our collective psyche, slowing the process from moving forward. President Carter is absolutely on the mark to put women's inequality issues squarely on the shoulders of religious leaders. 

The good news is that the internet has been the driving force in speeding the progress to educate the masses. There's a reason why you are having a hard time teaching theology over the internet; it's because the "idiots" are using it for learning.

craziladi
craziladi

@JimClark88  umm I hope this is a troll...LOL! Otherwise parody "news" website strikes again!

trytoseeitmyway
trytoseeitmyway

@Infinity   I appreciate that this is intended as satire.  What you should appreciate is that it is highly offensive satire.

paulejb
paulejb

@OtisDog 

Catholic church and women - Priesthood limited to males

Islam and women - Honor killings.

Does Jimmy notice the difference?

grape_crush
grape_crush

 @OtisDog> Let each church find a way to promote equality that is consistent with their theology.

I disagree, but this is about the most coherent post in this thread that I disagree with. Thanks.


garygnj
garygnj

@notLostInSpace Thank you and great post! Just a couple of points.  I think George H. W. Bush might disagree with you about RR fixing the economy.

Secondly, it's not "edumacation"; it's "learnins"

notLostInSpace
notLostInSpace

@MagdaleneLove  You are freaking kidding right?  Catholics don't discriminate against women?  Huh? I suppose the CSA did not have any problems with blacks in 1862 either, as long as they knew their place on the plantation?

Mendol
Mendol

@garygnj Worst modern era president,  He had more failures than successes.  Especially the economy and the Iran Hostage Crisis.  Carter was a honest man and was exactly what this country needed after Nixon -- he was also exactly what the republicans needed. They smoked him in the 1980 election.  The people of the time certainly considered him a failure. 

speculation1956
speculation1956

@MannyL  I agree. He just said that Jesus does not no  what he was doing when he picked 12 apostles who were all men. Moron of the century is correct. 

WinstonSmith
WinstonSmith

@paulejb Senility is bad enough for anyone---but when it hits the Liberal mind---what's left?

garygnj
garygnj

@paulejb You seem pretty certain in your convictions in regard to Carter.  What made him such a bad president in your eyes?  I"m not interested in his religious views and/or opinion; just interested in exactly why you feel he was a terrible president.

trytoseeitmyway
trytoseeitmyway

Wow, how pedantic of you.  Just to be clear, Carter's comments were spoken from within the frame of belief in God and the Bible.  I get that you don't share that belief with him.  My remarks were intended for those who might.

Of course if you think that gender roles are irrelevant today, it just shows that you need to do some more learning yourself.  Perhaps spend more time on the Internet?  Just kidding.

notLostInSpace
notLostInSpace

@garygnj @notLostInSpace   "read my lips".......you are probably right about HW.  I remember laughing my butt off when HW said, while President, that his problems were due to Johnson, thus bypassing a good 20 years of Presidential responsibility, mostly Republican. 

greg.diligentmedia
greg.diligentmedia

@notLostInSpace @MagdaleneLove @notLostInSpace @MagdaleneLove You're as hideously uniformed as Carter is. You may as well say that Hollywood discriminated against men by only allowing a woman (Meryrl Streep) to play Margaret Thatcher. You may as well say that women were discriminated against by Hollywood only allowing a bloke (Daniel Day Lewis) to play Lincoln. You need - and Carter - to learn as to why the Catholic Church has male priests. Then, when you do, criticise the underlying doctrine (as I'm sure you will). But here's the point: the priest is male because Christ was male (if you agree with that bit). He has to be male because at Catholic Mass, which is the re-presented Sacrifice of Calvary, in unbloody manner, he acts according to his ordination to do so, In persona Christi (In the Person of Christ). He is Alter Christus (Another Christ). Why? Because at Catholic Mass we believe that the forms of bread and wine are transubstantiated (see Aquinas) into the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ (no, I haven't contradicted myself by saying "unbloody" earlier). This is the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross for all time. He "re-presents" this to the Father, for all ages. That's the atonement. He does so through the means of the priest. He does so through the means of the Alter Christus, acting In Persona Christi, the priest, who is, like He was for His 33 years on earth, a male. It would make absolutely no sense - if this dogma (yeah, that word still being used in 2013!) is believed - for a woman to act In Persona Christi, as Alter Christus. You understand that bit? The reason why Carter sees no problem in having female pastors in Protestant sects like those he favours is because they have no need to be Alter Christus, to act In Persona Christi. Because there is only a memorial of the Last Supper. There is no transubstantiation. They don't believe that a "communion wafer" and some wine can become Christ's body, blood, soul and divinity. Ergo: pastor can be a male or female. Sure, rub your eyes with disbelief that Catholics believe that that is precisely what happens at Mass. That bit makes sense. That people would find the dogma incredulous. But then, once you know what the dogma is, what Catholics actually believe, then you can't conclude that there is any "discrimination" going on. If Christ had been a woman, the Catholic Church would not allow male priests. Learn the dogma before you learn the lazy assumptions. There's actually more to criticise!

For the record: the Catholic Church teaches that the greatest human ever born of two human parents was a woman. The Catholic Church teaches that she was born without Original Sin (that's the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception - which most lazy onlookers think refers to the Virgin Birth; but no, it has naught to do with the actuality of Christ's birth and everything to do with the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary). The Church also teaches that Mary - so immaculate, so honoured by Catholics but not "worshipped (another lazy swipe, but kind of ironic actually) - was assumed body and soul straight to heaven and not left to corrupt here on earth, like every guy since Adam. In other words, the Church teaches that the only one of us - ever - who hasn't been so defiled by the world was...a woman. And the Catholic Church teaches that she is the Mother of God. A mere girl from Nazareth. How's that for discrimination?

Sure, call me out of step - but at least get to know the real reasons why I'm out of step. While you're at it, drop a line to Carter, let him know too. 

garygnj
garygnj

@Mendol @garygnj And yet he didn't get us into any overseas entanglements, and brokered a peace treaty that stands to this day between Israel and Egypt.  Wasn't the "malaise speech" simply telling Americans not to concentrate on being materialistic, self absorbed a-holes? He authorized a rescue mission for the Iran hostages and took the blame when the military failed. The Iranians hated him so much that they waited until Reagan was in office before letting the hostages go.   Has everybody forgotten 2000-20008 and the smirking dimwit who lied us into one war and started another that had (and has) no hope of a satisfactory ending?  It seems like a lot of people want to call Carter the worst president ever without really knowing why except for what they hear on AM talk radio.  I'm not saying he didn't have issues but he was certainly sincere and earnest in his attempts at moving the country forward.  That's more than anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty can say about Bush.

jenny000
jenny000

@greg.diligentmedia @notLostInSpace @MagdaleneLove 

Thomas Aquinos you mention above said that people who killed themselves  go to hell...

till the all male church management changed this teaching not long ago. Now, those people do not go to hell anymore... Hmmmmm, and Tomas Aquinos is stil  a Doctor of the Church...

frjohn
frjohn

@greg.diligentmedia @notLostInSpace @MagdaleneLove 

As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I agree with your theological explanation of why a woman cannot be ordained. However, I do believe that Roman Catholicism gives too much power to the priest. The people of God including women should have ultimate authority over the non-spiritual affairs of the Church at all levels including the selection of their Bishops.

notLostInSpace
notLostInSpace

@greg.diligentmedia @notLostInSpace @MagdaleneLove  Why don't you spend a little more time and talk about the women who hold important places in the Catholic church?  Truth is hard but your church is going to fail because they are running out of male priests, which will fuel a decline in money collection locations.  Their great hope being South America.  Of course they also have to deal with the financial issues from a few, well more than a few, personal issues of priests eh?  What does your dogma say about an adult male of authority forcing a boy to have sex?  I know one of these victims, and the priest who did it actually baptized my son, so don't tell me what you think I don't know.

more to think about if you truly think women get equality (which is the opposite of discrimination isn't it?)>

http://www.ted.com/conversations/5550/catholicism_opposes_the_equali.html

Catholicism opposes the equality of women

Catholicism opposes the equality of women. How can men, especially men with a wife, daughters or sons, be members of the catholic church and claim to believe in equality for women?

- Nuns/women are not allowed to own property; Priests/men can.
- Nuns take a vow of obedience. Priests do not.
- Women are not allowed to hold high office within the catholic church. Only men can be priests, pastors, bishops, cardinals or pope.

If actions speak louder than words, what is Catholicism saying about the value of women?

Fair and equal treatment is a requirement of ones perceived value; especially from authority figures.

If, "...we as men, good men, the large majority of men, we operate on the foundation of this whole collective socialization.", how can we be good men and indoctrinate our sons and daughters into an influential community that practices and perpetuates the inequality of women?

Mendol
Mendol

@garygnj @Mendol Bush may be considered the worst in time -- my focus is not modern history.  I was merely answering the question you asked as to why most people consider him the worst.  You obviously are not very objective here - I happen to admire Jimmy Carter as a man and a humanitarian -- however, J Carter was a micro-manager -- it caused him a lot of problems.  BTW a good friend of mine was a Marine chopper pilot on that rescue mission -- Carter deserved the blame.

paulejb
paulejb

@garygnj @Mendol 

After getting over his "inordinate fear of communism" Jimmy Boy was stunned when those devious commies invaded Afghanistan.