Why Gitmo Will Never Close

President Obama wants to shut down the controversial prison but not the policies it has come to represent.

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Eugene Richards for TIME

The restraining chair and forced feeding apparatus on display in an empty room of the detainee hospital in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

This article appears in this week’s magazine. To subscribe to TIME, click here.

Barack Obama had been President for only one full day when, on Jan. 22, 2009, he acted on a central campaign promise. Arguing that the Founding Fathers would agree that America must “observe the core standards of conduct not just when it’s easy but also when it’s hard,” Obama signed an Executive Order to close the notorious military prison camp at Guantánamo Bay, where the Bush Administration had detained hundreds of men captured in combat and counterterrorism operations since 2001. With dozens of men imprisoned for years without charges brought against them, and in many cases having actually been cleared for release, Obama said closing Guantánamo would return America to the “moral high ground” it had yielded in its ruthless pursuit of al-Qaeda during the Bush years. “I can tell you that the wrong answer is to pretend like this problem will go away,” Obama said in May 2009. “I refuse to pass it on to somebody else. It is my responsibility to solve the problem.”

Four years later, with Guantánamo still open—and the site of widespread hunger strikes and other acts of disobedience by many of its 166 inmates—Obama is again trying to fulfill that responsibility. In a May 23 address about a range of his counter-terrorism policies, including drone strikes, Obama declared the start of a new push against the political obstacles that thwarted his first attempt to close the most infamous symbol of the U.S.’s post-9/11 war on terrorism. “[History] will cast a harsh judgment on this aspect of our fight against terrorism and those of us who fail to end it,” Obama said.

(MORE: President Obama Sides With His Guantánamo Bay Protesters)

But Obama will be hard-pressed to live up to his grand rhetoric. Opposition still runs high to the idea of releasing or bringing into U.S. prisons dozens of men widely considered dangerous terrorists even if many are not. Asked to gauge the probability that Obama can close Guantánamo before he leaves office, David Remes, a lawyer who represents 18 Guantánamo inmates replies, “Zero.” And even if Obama can shut down the site known colloquially as Gitmo, he hasn’t promised to end the practice of long-term incarceration without trial that along with interrogation techniques like waterboarding blighted the U.S.’s track record for treating prisoners in the so-called global war on terrorism. The prison camp on Cuba’s southern tip may or may not be shuttered during Obama’s watch, but Gitmo, in the metaphorical sense, may never really close.

Nor is America’s long war on terrorism about to end. Obama’s speech revealed a man “haunted” by the deaths of innocents in drone strikes and wrestling with the balance between national security and the Constitution’s integrity. But while he announced tighter standards for ordering drone strikes abroad (including an unspoken plan to partly shift the program from the CIA to the theoretically more accountable Pentagon) and spoke of a day when the war might be declared over, Obama is retaining broad powers to detain or kill suspected terrorists, to conduct aggressive surveillance and to use military force in foreign nations. “To do nothing in the face of terrorist networks would invite far more civilian casualties,” Obama said. “We must finish the work of defeating al-Qaeda and its associated forces.”

Hungry for Clarity

At last count, military medical personnel at Gitmo were force-feeding 35 of the more than 100 inmates who refuse to eat. Twice a day, those men are strapped into restraining chairs as tubes that run up their noses and down their throats fill their stomachs with a compound called Ensure, a supplement used by everyone from athletes to dieters. The U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights has called force-feeding a violation of international law, and the World Medical Association, of which the U.S. is a member, declared in 1991 that the practice is “never ethically acceptable” unless a prisoner consents or is unable to make a rational choice. (The WMA calls it “ethical to allow a determined hunger striker to die.”)

Although Remes says he suspects the inmates at Gitmo are aware of the President’s speech and that some may even have watched it on television, he doubts that the hunger strikes will end anytime soon. “Obama has no credibility with the detainees,” he says. “I bet they didn’t even look up from their chessboards.” Then, recalling that after recent scuffles with their guards, inmates were barred from congregating, he adds, “No, they’re not playing chess. They’re not even allowed to be together.”

(PHOTOS: At Guantánamo Bay, Visions of the War on Terror Still Linger)

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71 comments
cvdform
cvdform

So they want to defeat al-Quida but in the same' time supply al-Quida from weapons in Syria... do i miss some IQ to understand this????

TinaReneeGraves
TinaReneeGraves

As an indie author, I know dramatics when I see them. Comparing a feeding tube, a relatively mild procedure performed every single day in hospitals across the nation, to the guns, bullets, knives, and incendiary devices used against our people... our soldiers, infuriates me. I have to wonder why Time would have non-medical people believe they are in any way similar.

As one of the many proud Americans who was appalled when the first photographs of Guantánamo Bay was originally released, I'm not going to be able to feed into (no pun intended) the argument that inserting a feeding tube into a prisoner is the new water-boarding. In fact, it is exactly the opposite.

T. R. Graves, RN 

ursus
ursus

Imagine for a moment that we had it all to do over again.  Would we put a lot of dangerous terrorists in a prison in a country with which we have no diplomatic relations, a country with which we have had hostile relations for a couple of generations?  Of course, that has a front-end advantage.  No country with which we maintain diplomatic relations is going to permit us to stash a bunch of Afghans in a prison on their territory.  Cuba we didn't have to ask.  We haven't paid much attention to the other consequences of that situation.  What happens if Cuba decides to take back Gitmo?  Since we hold that bit of Cuba as the spoils of war, we would get no sympathy from the rest of the world.  Are we up for another war?  A conventional war with Cuba would be over in a week but there is little reason to think Cuba would fight a conventional war.  The Viet Cong didn't.  The Taliban doesn't.  

Which brings us back around the the original question.  If you have a bunch of dangerous people to incarcerate, is it a good idea to do it in a country with which you would have rotten diplomatic relations if you had any diplomatic relations with them at all?  The resistance to bringing them onshore is based on worries about security.  What makes us think that a prison in Cuba is secure?

RamonRoman
RamonRoman

You Americans, politicians and people alike, are absolute arrogant. Like this news starts and people like Sibir comments, they take for granted that Guantanamo is part of the USA. "Guantanamo will never be closed", screams one and the other analyzes it on the basis of the American Law. GUANTANAMO IS NOT A TERRITORY OF THE USA. It was leased or rented or whatever, by a dictator to the American government of the day. This means that whatever the political situation in the USA, someday there is going to be a politician like Jimmy Carter that is going to put an end to this illegal and abnormal situation and deliver GUANTANAMO to its rightful owners, the Cuban people. In which country of the World, leasing is ETERNAL? Are you insane?  No, you are not insane, only 100% arrogant, jingoists and take for granted that the world belongs to you. Why don't you open your arrogant eyes and realized that not even your houses belong to you. GUANTANAMO IS CUBAN'S AND YOU HAVE MADE A MORAL MESS WITH THIS SITUATION. This is one of the reason that your establishment, mainly, your Congress has keep a blockade of Cuba for more than 40 years, to try to impose another puppet dictator to lease Guantanamo for another many years until you grab it, to claim it as yours.

hectorl633
hectorl633

Not only should Gitmo be closed, but it should be returned to Cuba.

spiffyguy_po
spiffyguy_po

Total  B.S.   No one can overrule the Commander-in-Chief.   :-|

valentine.godoflove
valentine.godoflove

I KNOW THAT THE PEOPLE'S MEMORY IS VERY SHORT........SPECIALY LOW INFO VOTERS......IN THE BEGINNING OF THE AFGHAN WAR......2 SPECIAL OPERATIONS PEOPLE WERE NEGFOTIATING THE SURRENDER OF A FORT.......THE REBELS BROKE THE PARLEY BY KILLING ONE OF THE SPEC OPS PEOPLE AND THE OTHER ONE ESCAPED BY JUMPING OFF THE PARAPET......BATTLE RESUMED.......REBELS LOST.....ONE OF THEM WAS THE AMERICAN TALIBAN.......

THEY SHOULD ALL HAVE BEEN SHOT FOR VIOLATING THE TRUCE......BUT SOME WERE TAKEN TO GITMO.......

IT COST US $100,000 A YEAR PER PRISONER.........THEIR MISERABLE LIVES BEFORE AND TODAY ARE NOT WORTH A PLUGGED NICKEL......

WHO HAS THE BALLS.....TO EXECUTE THEM ALL AND SAVE US ......THE AMERICAN CITIZENS TAXPAYERS BILLIONS OF DOLLARS......HELL.....THEY GET BETTER TREATMENT THAN THE HOMELESS CITIZENS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

VALENTINE, WORLD.MILITARY.POLITICAL HISTORIAN....LOL

curt3rd
curt3rd

I thought he closed Gitmo down on day one.  Just another promise by Obama that he can not fulfill nor understand. 

I like how Time chooses to focus on closing Gitmo(which has been in the works for 5 years) instead of the multiple scandals currently going on in Washington right know.  Really, I dont see a single article on any of them. 

Emon Aman
Emon Aman

and they talk about capital punishment when thing like this exists.

Mohamed Maumoon
Mohamed Maumoon

Still obama has not fullfilled his promis which he made in the last term but youve voted him again.

Sibir_Russia
Sibir_Russia

MINISTRY OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION

 REPORT ON THE HUMAN RIGHTS SITUATION IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 

Contents

Introduction…………………………………………………...3

U.S. participation in the international treaties and conventions on human rights  .... 5

Manifestations of racial, ethnic and religious intolerance ........... 7

Excessive use of force by the police and racial profiling ........ 9

Immigration policy, human trafficking …………………12

Economic and social rights …………………...…16

Rights of children……………………............ 20

Voting Rights …………….................. 24

Freedom of speech and press, transparency of government ctivities…............ 28

Internet censorship ………………..…….…….31

Capital  punishment ………………………..34

The penitentiary system ……..……….…….36

Tracing dissidents and potential terrorists …......….40

Indiscriminate use of force in armed

conflict zones. Program of targeted killings …..............44

Abductions, CIA "black site" prisons, tortures…..........................….. 49

Prison in the territory of the US military base in

Guantanamo and indefinite detention ……...............................54

www.mid.ru/bdomp/ns-dgpch.nsf/8f29680344080938432569ea00361529/2ab49ff642baf0c244257aa000254663/$FILE/Report.doc

ToddGilbert
ToddGilbert

He could close it with the stroke of a pen. Just another empty promise from this empty president. We got the hope but no change. Meet the new boss same as the old boss. Until people wake up and vote for a third party. We will get thew same old crap in a new wrapper. 

TIMEafterTIME
TIMEafterTIME

"The third group consists of prisoners too dangerous to simply release—for reasons that could include a suspected organizational role in al-Qaeda, explosives training or in some cases an openly stated desire to kill Americans—but also impossible to put on trial, maybe because of evidence rendered inadmissible by torture; because the troops who captured them didn’t collect evidence; or because they supported al-Qaeda before the U.S. made that a crime for foreigners overseas."

Interesting. So taken to Gitmo on the basis of no evidence whatsoever, no evidence has ever emerged since, held on mere "suspicions", and the U.S. government has developed precogs à la Minority Report. I am unable to see why all of them can't be immediately released. The usual police work applied to detecting terror attacks in the U.S.

If they weren't radicals before they went in, it would be a fantastic moral achievement for them not to have become so by now. If I were them, I would utterly despise the country that had done this to me. Wouldn't that be a completely normal reaction? More than a decade of your life taken for your, held in such conditions, treated in such a way?

Guilty until proven innocent: the Anglo-American way.

Mary Jordan
Mary Jordan

United States of "America" Needs Gitmo. Terrorists are NOT the "American's Friends. There may be "Terrorists" ready to "KILL" More "Americans", you have to "Force" the "Information" out of the "Terrorists" even by "DEATH".

NewsDogReports
NewsDogReports

If he wanted to close it he would have already.... politicians will say anything to look good.

Al Burnop
Al Burnop

must shut it ! $900K a yr per prisoner vs 60K per at a supermax?? WTH ?????

D.w. Cook
D.w. Cook

Eugene Richards: your favorite photographers favorite photographer.

Jesús Eduardo
Jesús Eduardo

Rotshcilds behind all this and other schemes too. Prety much everything that has to do with the western "society."

rutnerh
rutnerh

Gitmo inmates may have been dangerous terrorists before capture but there multitudes of radical Islamists aka terrorists who in reality ar the true followers of Koranic teachings among them the 5 Pillars of Faith with the 6 th, jihad, largely ignored by the majority of lukewarm westernized Muslims. Mohammad in his 50 violent crusades with the sword and Bin Laden practiced all six. Thankfully most Muslims currently don't and now practice largely peacefu

Sibir_Russia
Sibir_Russia

Number of inmates in the United States increased by comparison with 1972 in 7,6 times . http://imgur.com/T6BFv 

Valentin KATASONOV"The American Gulag as the latest form of capitalism"

"In 1972 the U.S. had less than 300 thousand prisoners. In 1990 it was 1 million. Today the United States, where there are more than 2.3 million inmates, tops the list of countries by number of people in custody. This is about 25% of all those serving time in the world (the U.S. share of world population is 5%). The figure of 754 prisoners per 100 thousand of population makes the United States the world leader in the ratio of the number of prisoners to total population. As the American specialist publication «California Prison Focus» said, in the history of mankind there has never before been a society which held so many of its own people in jail. More people are imprisoned In the U.S. than in any other country - half a million more than in China, even though the population of China is five times more than that of the United States. The Soviet Gulag system of the 1930`s was on a much smaller scale than is the American gulag at the beginning of the XXI century."  

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2012/11/24/the-american-gulag-as-the-latest-form-of-capitalism-ii.html

RamonRoman
RamonRoman

@valentine.godoflove So you want to execute all of these prisoners because they engaged in something that you consider immoral in proceedings of war. Have you ever asked you historian, your politician and your vets of the Viet Nam war, what was the moral proceedings with Viet Cong soldier taken alive? As far as I read from that war, no prisoners were taken, they were all executed. Tortured and executed. So much for preaching about the way others proceeds with their external or internal wars. Mr Mac Cain and all his fellows pilots of war, rained Napalm and chemical weapons on the civilians and soldiers of Viet Nam, and when he was taken prisoner, he was treated in the same manner that the Americans have treated their prisoners in today's wars. Guantanamo somebody?  Mister Bush and all its entourage thought that the war in Iraq was going to be a walk in the park. Why? Because of arrogance. Because they think that the American Way is the only way in the world and again they thought that Afghanistan was going to be another cake walk in the park due to the fact that the communist government installed there was unbearable for those poor unfortunate people of the middle ages. And now, the recipe is about to come sour with Syria. The Americans never thought that much of the people and military of Syria, prefer a Secular government instead of a government of fanatic and human flesh eater Islamist. When are you going to open your eyes an act rationally and not support people that in the end are going to stab in the back? WILL YOU EVER LEARN?

Sibir_Russia
Sibir_Russia

Far more money from the American taxpayers go on the purpose of "democracy" around the world.This is only a small part of

  http://www.ned.org/where-we-work/eurasia/russia 

We in Russia don't want  money from the American taxpayers , democracy in Russia more than in the United States. 
this money could be useful for example her:

http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/ 

http://imgur.com/uqKBXhttp://imgur.com/GXyD5http://imgur.com/EZ9GB
http://imgur.com/zOQS9

Russia introduced a law on the registration of NGOs as "foreign agents" for those who receive grants from the U.S. state Department. The law on "foreign agents" copied from American.
Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/05/30/why-gitmo-will-never-close/#ixzz2UpXJbRVz

curt3rd
curt3rd

Since when has anything from Russia been reliable.  Their media is pretty much state run or you could say Putin run.

cvdform
cvdform

NO they prefer to shut the whole government down, except Gitmo.


Dont ask me to the sense from it because to me it is totaly insane.

cvdform
cvdform

@EdyPulgar  That is normal for Roma families in Romania. This video is recorderd there. It is no miracle no body wants the Roma's in there country.

cvdform
cvdform

@Sibir_Russia  It is no wonder with so many inmates that the government had to shutdown. Those inmates cost a fortune on security, food, medical help ect.


I think it is cheaper to put a wall arround the US and declare every one criminal and the US as a state prisson. Military can go home again and no one goes in or out. Well that point is not so far any more if we look to the information from Snowden and the absurd drone program. Even in communism time we got more freedoms then the citizens from the US now.

Sibir_Russia
Sibir_Russia

«founding fathers» of the U.S., the so-called WASPS (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) were ardent republicans who wanted to protect the country from the excesses of democracy, and decided that:

1) participation in elections would be restricted to white skinned property owners

2) to elect senators to the legislature from each state, and

3) the President and Vice President shall be elected by an electoral college.   

The first two constraints have long been removed. The third item is still in effect.

http://www.strategic-culture.org/pview/2012/11/13/the-usa-big-problem.html

Sibir_Russia
Sibir_Russia

Unlike the USA, the Russian President is elected by the people by direct vote. In the USA, people only participate in the elections.

Sibir_Russia
Sibir_Russia

@curt3rd 

Compared with the situation in the USA, election campaign in Russia is as pure as a drop of dew

Sibir_Russia
Sibir_Russia

@curt3rd 

Fred Weir, the long time correspondent for The Christian Science Monitor in Moscow, believes that the report is «well-documented» and «professionally written». Mainly it is based on U.S. non-governmental and academic sources and the issues raised «are quite familiar to any well-informed Americans»   State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland answering a question about the report, said that the text was not known to her, but the appearance of such studies are welcome, as the U.S. is an «open book» seeking to improve its society.   At a State Duma hearing on human rights in the U.S., an ambassador of this country well known as a theoretician and practitioner of human rights, Michael McFaul was invited. However, he did not attend, and that is very significant. Whilst hosting numerous comments on all issues in his blog and on Twitter, on this subject the Ambassador is silent. Did he lose his interest? Or did he not expect to hear anything new about the human rights situation in his own country? This suggests that either he is well aware of the existing violations and finds it simply shameful, or he does not want to hear anything about them, and this is hypocritical. The ability not to be able to see the wood for the trees is a characteristic feature of many generations of American politicians.  

Sibir_Russia
Sibir_Russia

@curt3rd 

"GOLOS" has the status of "foreign agent" in Russia

The list of grants of the USA on "democracy development in Russia"

All-Russian Public Organization for the Victims of Terrorism “Voice of Beslan” - $20,000

Center for Social and Labor Rights - $60,000

Memorial Centerfor the History of Political Repression Perm-36 - $50,000

Yuri Levada Analytical Center - $61,460

Instituteof Globalization and Social Movements - $22,125

Agency for Social Information (ASI) - $65,000

Mashr - $55,000

Centre de la Protection Internationale - $50,000

Ural Human Rights Group - $57,000

Civil Rights Defenders - $115,000

Dagestan Regional Social Organization “Informational – Analytical Center "Rakurs"” - $54,998

Etudes Sans Frontières - $15,832

Foundation “Independent Press Center” - $60,000

Foundation for the Support of Information Freedom Initiatives - $80,000

Human Rights Resource Center (HHRC) - $39,000

The Andrei Sakharov Foundation  - $75,000

Interregional Association of Human Rights Organizations “AGORA” - $100,000

Center for Information and Protection of Human Rights - $40,000

Center for the Development of Social Partnership - $50,000

Committee Against Torture (CAT) - $79,540

Council of Non-Governmental Organizations - $45,000

Center of Social and Educational Initiatives (CSEI) - $28,600

Kabardino-Balkar Republic Public Human Rights Center - $50,000

National Democratic Institute for International Affairs - $134,200

Non-Profit Partnership “Lawyers for a Civil Society” - $50,000

Media Lawyers Collegium - $27,008

Nonviolence International - $50,000

Ozersk City Socio-Ecological Public Organization “Planet of Hopes” - $45,852

Perm City Public Organization “Center for Civic Education and Human Rights” - $55,000

Pskov Regional Public Organization “Council of Soldiers’ Mothers” - $21,692

Regional Civic Institute Research and Information Center Memorial - $55,000

Regional Civic Organization in Defense of Democratic Rights and Liberties “GOLOS” - $65,000

Regional Human Rights Public Organization “Niiso” - $23,623

International Protection Center - $50,000

Chechen Committee for National Salvation - $75,000

Independent Council of Legal Expertise - $50,000

Information Research Center "PANORAMA" - $65,000

Moscow Group of Assistance in the Implementation of the Helsinki Accords - $50,000

Moscow Group of Assistance in the Implementation of the Helsinki Accords - $55,000

Regional Civic Initiative – The Right to Life and Human Dignity - $47,000

Regional Public Organization for Assistance in Observance of Human Rights “Hot Line” - $65,810

Center for Public Information (CPI) - $60,000

Information and Analysis Center ‘SOVA’ - $70,000

Rostov City Nonprofit Organization “Eko-logika” - $25,000

Rostov Regional Public Organization “League for Civil Rights Protection” - $40,000

Russian-Chechen Friendship Society - $49,980

St. Petersburg Human Rights Public Organization “League of Women Voters” - $45,000

St. Petersburg Public Organization “Environmental Human Rights Center ‘Bellona’” - $49,720

Soldiers’ Mothers of St. Petersburg - $85,000

Sverdlovsk Oblast Public Organization “Parity” - $30,984

Vladimir Oblast Intellectual Public Movement “Lebed” - $45,570

Yaroslavl Regional Public Organization in support of Civic Initiatives “Dialog” - $24,000

The grant listings posted here are from the 2010 Annual Report, published in August 2011.

 

curt3rd
curt3rd

The electoral college is elected by the people to represent the people idiot.

cvdform
cvdform

@curt3rd  Well there i dont agree with you. There is more reason not to trust Obama then Putin. Even by the own population from the US Obama is called a lier. 


Mr. Putin maybe a hardball politition but i cant say that he is unfair. The problem from the west countries is that Putin stands for his country, and the western polititions for there own pocket.

curt3rd
curt3rd

You keep cutting and pasting without reading it.  Also, I dont really trust anything coming from the Putin Press.

Sibir_Russia
Sibir_Russia

@curt3rd 

 Comment of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia on the situation around observers of the Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR) in Texas State           October 31, 2012

 Situation, which was formed around the ODIHR observer participation in the monitoring of the upcoming presidential elections in the state of Texas of the in the United States, causes the bewilderment. Threats of Texas Attorney General Greg Abbot to attract international observers to the criminal liability, if they get close to the polling stations, and the statement, which was supported by the Texas Governor Rick Perry, unfortunately, did not widely appreciate by the Warsaw Office usually strictly reacting to violations of their obligations as members of the OSCE by other countries, especially to the east from Vienna.

The United States State Department responded to this extremely sluggish. It loves to teach the rest of the world in the part of democracy and human rights, but when it comes to obvious defects of the American electoral system, it prefers to refer to domestic law often contrary to democratic principles and norms. There is another manifestation of «double standards». Requiring from some people of unconditional providing of unhindered access for international observers to the general elections and creation of the necessary conditions for them to work The United States consider themselves free from such «unnecessary formalities».

I recall that international observation is permitted only in four states (Missouri, New Mexico, North and South Dakota) and the District of Columbia. The electoral system itself is decentralized, fragmented and archaic. Election of the president is indirect, there is no federal authority to control the voting and a national register of voters. That is why in the United States the objective external monitoring demands and the Texas case is the additional confirmation.

It is no coincidence that Russia has long and consistently advocated for the holding of analysis of state election laws of the member states in the OSCE and the development of common rules for election observation for ODIHR. We believe that this would contribute to establishment of democratic norms throughout the OSCE without arbitrary exceptions.

http://www.mid.ru/bdomp/brp_4.nsf/e78a48070f128a7b43256999005bcbb3/44b5e005119f975444257aae004d292a!OpenDocument

curt3rd
curt3rd

Did you even read the article.  Texas has voting laws which are in place to make sure no outside influence such as theU.N,  OSCE or any othe forgein entity take place on American voting.

Sibir_Russia
Sibir_Russia

In the United States is elicited the facts of falsifications in the elections of the President.
Florida: mass falsification of the voting results 11 November 2012.
Voter Fraud: Obama Won 108% of Registered Voters in Ohio County
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/detail/voter-fraud-obama-won-108-of-registered-voters-in-ohio-county?f=must_reads
Breaking: Florida Showing Massive Voter Fraud
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/detail/breaking-florida-showing-massive-voter-fraud
The polling station district of St. Lucy, located in the National Museum of SEAL, gave a record for the district of turnout - 158.85% of the voters.
When an election observer Gertrude Walker asked about 141% turnout, she said: - "it is Possible, and there was something of the kind in the district of palm beach, but we have never seen this here." The statement of the vote counting in the parish of Saint Lucy, dated November 6, 2012
http://www.slcelections.com/Pdf%20Docs/2012%20General/GEMS%20SOVC%20REPORT.pdf

Sibir_Russia
Sibir_Russia

@curt3rd 

"US electoral system, or Freedom House up to its usual tricks" http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2012/01/26/us-electoral-system-freedom-house-up-to-its-usual-tricks.html 
What is the difference between a good teacher and a bad teacher? A good teacher is at least the one who is able to solve the task he gives to his students. That is why I have always been puzzled by the fact that while “introducing democracy” all over the world Americans are evading this natural teaching “do as I do” method. They say what is right and what is wrong in the electoral systems of other countries, what is democratic and what is not democratic and even who is the right and who is the wrong candidate, according to Washington. It would be much easier to say “Hey, guys! You see how perfectly it works in our country. Do as we do and you will be happy!” But they don’t say it. Thequestionis: why?   It is simply because the electoral system in the “stronghold of democracy” is far from matching the concept of “the rule of people”. If it is introduced in Ukraine or in Russia it will lead to a big scandaland to complaints that the government violates the main democratic principle – the winner is the candidate who gathers most of people’s votes. It would sound ridiculous, but this very principle, natural for the nations the US teaches “how to live”, is regarded as unnecessary in the US.   four times (!) in the history of the US the president was elected without receiving the majority (!) of votes of the American people. For example, George Bush Junior, who also liked to teach democracy to the Russian people, became the US president despite the fact that he gathered 500,000 votes less than his main rival Albert Gore. Bush received 50 460 110 (47.9%) votes, Gore - 51 003 926 (48,4%). Is it absurd? Yes, it is. But this is in compliance with the US legislation.   Although the results of opinion polls in the US have been reflecting for many years the wish of most of Americans to switch to direct presidential elections, the Congress consistently blocks any attempts to change the two-stage system.   Summing it up, the electoral system of the “stronghold of democracy” is so complicated and so undemocratic in letter and in spirit that many US citizens simply do not vote. They fairly believe that their declaration of will can be nothing but wasted time, because, firstly, there is a wide area for the so-called “administrative resource” in the US, and secondly – their votes do not mean a lot because in the long run those candidate wins who decides to invest his money in large businesses

Sibir_Russia
Sibir_Russia

@dakinsky@Sibir@curt3rd 

In Russia, democracy is the power of the majority in light of the interests and opinions of the minority. In the USA Vice versa. This democracy, as in the US,  Russia do not need.

curt3rd
curt3rd

The Constitution of Russia forbids arbitrary detention, torture and ill-treatment. Chapter 2, Article 21 of the constitution states, "No one may be subjected to torture, violence or any other harsh or humiliating treatment or punishment."[43][44] However Russian police are regularly observed practicing torture - including beatings, electric shocks, rape, asphyxiation - in interrogating arrested suspects.[10][11][12][45] In 2000, human rights Ombudsman Oleg Mironov estimated that 50% of prisoners with whom he spoke claimed to have been tortured. Amnesty International reported that Russian military forces in Chechnya engage in torture.[43]

In the most extreme cases, hundreds of innocent people from the street were arbitrary arrested, beaten, tortured, and raped by special police forces. Such incidents took place not only in Chechnya, but also in Russian towns of Blagoveshensk, Bezetsk, Nefteyugansk, and others.[46][47][48] On 2007 Radio Svoboda ("Radio Freedom", part of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty) reported that an unofficial movement "Russia the Beaten" was created in Moscow by human rights activists and journalists who "suffered from beatings in numerous Russian cities".[49]

Torture and humiliation are also widespread in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. The term dedovshchina refers to systematic abuse of new conscripts by more long-serving soldiers.[50] Many young men are killed or commit suicide every year because of it.[51] It is reported that some young male conscripts are forced to work as prostitutes for "outside clients".[52] Union of the Committees of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia works to protect rights of young soldiers