Rubio and Immigration Reform: Will He Stick or Scoot?

The question on many Washington minds is whether Sen. Marco Rubio really wants an immigration reform bill to pass.

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Kevin Lamarque / REUTERS

Senator Marco Rubio of Florida speaks at CPAC at National Harbor, Maryland March 14, 2013.

The Senate’s bipartisan Gang of Eight may release an immigration reform bill this week, but the question on many Washington minds is whether Marco Rubio, the most conservative member of the gang, really wants the legislation to pass. He has defied his Tea Party base by backing reform, including a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants, but he has also demanded hearings, “triggers,” and a slew of other conditions he insists must be met for him to support the final bill. He’s still on the reform bus, but he’s left himself a Florida Turnpike worth of exit ramps.

My cover story about Rubio’s personal and political journey on immigration issues anticipated this drama over the senator’s “impeccably nuanced positions.” He is a child of Cuban immigrants—his grandfather was undocumented for awhile, and I quoted his mother begging him not to harm the undocumented of today—but he is also a child of the conservative movement that sunk immigration reform in 2007. He’s clearly thinking about the White House in 2016, and it’s not yet clear whether helping to broker a bipartisan immigration deal will help his candidacy in a party that hates President Obama but needs Hispanics. As I wrote two months ago: “This shrewd political operator will have to decide how far he’s willing to bend to get a deal done with Obama, or whether he’s content just to get credit for trying.”

(PHOTOS: Marco Rubio, Republican Savior)

The bill’s opponents seem convinced that Rubio’s tough-talk demands—tight border security and an employment verification system first, an arduous path to citizenship later, and no law without a thorough and deliberate process—are just bones he’s throwing to his supporters on the right before his inevitable support for amnesty. By contrast, immigration advocates are clearly afraid that he intends to scuttle reform and then blame Obama and Big Labor for moving the bill too far to the left.

I think he’s keeping his options open. He’s a political animal. He’d like to support a bill, but it will depend what the bill looks like and what the politics look like. To understand his options, it helps to think about the potential outcomes:

1) Supporting a Bill That Passes. Rubio is a real-deal political talent, but as a city councilor, state legislator and now U.S. senator, he’s got a thin legislative record. Now he’s probably the most important player working on a big bipartisan deal. Brokering a reform bill that helped fix the nation’s immigration problems and the GOP’s Latino problems would be a huge achievement for a freshman. It could disappoint grass-roots conservatives who tend to dominate Republican primaries, but so far Rubio has gotten sympathetic hearings from Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and other talkers who helped rally the base against reform in the past. And GOP elites are desperate to get the immigration issue off the table; they’ll be deeply grateful to Rubio if he can help make that happen.

2) Opposing a Bill That Fails. The media love bipartisan gangs, but even if the Senate negotiators reach a consensus, it’s not clear that immigration reform, especially a path to citizenship, can pass the Republican-controlled House. So Rubio might be tempted to get off the legislative train before it derails, and perhaps even get credit for killing the bill. He could always argue that Obama was too squishy on enforcement, or too union-friendly on guest workers, or whatever; he’d be a hero to the base for standing up to the sharia socialist, and he could still get some mainstream-media credit for supporting reform as long as he did. Advocates warn that if Rubio scuttles the bill, he’ll become as unpopular with non-Cuban Hispanics as Mitt Romney was, but that doesn’t seem plausible. If 2016 rolls around without reform, Republican elites will still be desperate to solve their problems with Hispanic voters; wouldn’t a bilingual Hispanic-American who took 55% of the Hispanic vote in a swing state be an attractive nominee?

3) Supporting a Bill That Fails. Rubio may be the key senator when it comes to reform, but he’d rather not help pass a bill that stalls in the House. He’d get no achievement to put on his resume, he’d look impotent, and he’d be linked to an Obama initiative rejected by the Republican base. This could conceivably make him an even more attractive candidate for 2016, when the problem would still be lingering and Republican elites would be even more desperate for a pro-reform, Hispanic-friendly nominee. But it would be embarrassing. Rubio doesn’t want the limb sawed off while he’s still on it.

4) Opposing a Bill That Passes. This would probably be the most humiliating political outcome for Rubio. He’d seem irrelevant. He’d look like he was in thrall to his right-wing base. Everyone would wonder what all the hype was about. Republicans would feel less desperate to appeal to Hispanics, and to the extent they still cared, they’d probably have other pro-reform candidates who could run in 2016. Since Rubio is nothing if not politically savvy, it’s safe to say that this is an unlikely outcome. He’s probably not going to come out against reform unless he’s sure it’s not going to happen.

Just writing this down, I was struck how the Beltway conventional wisdom—which holds that immigration is a no-lose proposition for Rubio—seems just about right. No matter what happens to reform, he’s showing some center-right bipartisan chops, while continuing to reach out to partisan Republican leaders. No matter what happens to reform, in 2016 he’s going to be attractive to the conservative base as well as party elites who want to win over Hispanics. Face it: He’s a contender.

So what’s he going to do? If I had to guess, he’ll probably listen to his mom.

MORE: Immigration Reform: The Coming Fight Over The Low-Skilled Worker Visa

111 comments
mirosas79
mirosas79

The U.S. as you may have forgotten is a refuge for immigrants fleeing some type of oppression, religious, political, economical. The fore fathers like the new immigrants crossing the border, saw opportunity and new begining.

The U.S. has always had this issue in its hands and its always come up on top. Look at Italians in the begining of the 20th century, they were once regarded as craftsmen, honest hard working people... but were branded by the actions of a few, as no good thugs, escaping the arm of the law in Italy at that time of Fascist regime .

Those few were your Mafias during prohibition and could be equally compared tho the Mexican Narcos. As they too were ruthless and blood thirsty individuals during their criminal acitivities.

I guess there is a "Mexicanphobia" like there was once an "Italianphobia"

Yet, to think it was an Italian, close friend to Jefferson, credited with the quote, "All men are created equal"

What is happening today is all to similar to what this great nation was experiencing at the end of the 19th and begining of the 20th century.

This is a country of IMMIGRANTS and will continue to be...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_laws_concerning_immigration_and_naturalization_in_the_United_States

kyan1998
kyan1998

I give Rubio an A for effort but an F for understanding U.S. history and the immigration issue. He has completely misunderstood the failures of the 1986 immigration bill passed by Reagan. Back then, the amnesty came first, then the enforcement. The Gang of Eight claim that this bill will require enforcement before illegal immigrants can get a path to citizenship, but that's not what's most important to the amnesty supporters. What's most important to them is getting legal status and the ability to work right away. Yes, they want citizenship, but that's a secondary concern. They want to come out of the shadows today!

Enforcement must come first for this proposal have any legs. Securing the border is important, but workplace verification and the exit/entry system are more important. New reports indicate Rubio will require E-Verify to be used by all businesses in 5 years. That's too long. DHS has said they can handle the increased volume in less than 2 years, so why 5 years? With regard to the entry/exit system, it sounds like Rubio will require the exit system to monitor visa overstayers be completed at all air and sea ports. So, he openly admits the border with Mexico is not secure, but he doesn't recommend requiring the exit system at the land ports across that very border. It makes no sense!

He's giving the amnesty supporters everything they want (legal status, the ability to work, and a path to citizenship). Business is getting everything it wants (a guest worker program). The Unions are getting everything they want (amnesty and a guest worker program with job portability and a potential path to citizenship). The pro-enforcement folks get more promises - just like 1986.

Ronnie_Matrix
Ronnie_Matrix

@TIME @TIMEPolitics With or Without congressman Marco Rubio, compressive reforms will be achieved. This is a critical issue in Washington.

white_eagle_cross
white_eagle_cross

In agreement with Manchurian, I believe Rubio will be instrumental in providing back door amnesty for illegal aliens. 

While this will allow him temporary attachment for limited ingratiating polishing within progressive spin circles to shine, it’ll quickly lose its luster among conservatives, and the devaluing flaws, will detach acceptability.Here then Rubio may be a presidential candidate, even selected as RNC Nominee, but he’ll suffer a Romney defeat.Selah

I truly believe if existing laws had been enforced, and were recommitted to enforcement this day, any necessary amendments could be written on a 3" x 5" index card.

Manchurian and like legions of evil apparatchiks, currently in the seats of power, in the U.S.A. and around the world, are busy in usury, contriving and conniving, for their "New World Order" (NWO) aspirations. The urgency is brought about due to the window of opportunity which closes quickly at the highest degree when an ultimate tipping point for good or evil is reached.

The mechanism chosen by the Wicked, for "change" and "transformation" into their NWO (anti God and His Christ) is the electronic medium within the www of modernity; Red Dragon/image of the Beast.It is in this way, and this way only, the "Days of Noah," within the microcosm of Christ, was foretold by Jesus, would in macrocosm repeat, history and prophecy, in this our time at the end.This knowing alone should give non-believers pause, and believers’ greater resolve to hold fast.Selah

What generally is the inner working of the “change” and “transformation” is as is in agreement with and professed by the Wicked:

“Change” is the incremental detachment of people’s core principles allowing and providing their individual God given rights unto life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, to include ownership of property, while proportionately supplanting their core principles with death, bondage, sorrows, and desolation.

“Transformation” is realized/actualized amazingly, when people in agreement willingly profess with their lips, “Who is like unto the Beast!”For those thinking not me… the Lord God made known unto His Holy Apostle John, that the delusion to come over the whole world shall be so great that barely the “elect” shall escape it.Selah

My friends in a final solution and/or consummation of the age; Divine Providence, there will be no hiding places, for all will have skin in the game.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.Amen

p.s. What profit it a man if they should gain the whole world and lose their very soul?The Lord God made it known that the afterlife in Heaven shall be so much the more in grandeur then this our earthly dwelling as not even to be comparable.Selah

JoelWischkaemper
JoelWischkaemper

Senator Leahy of Vermont got up in front of the world and told us all.. my dairy industry needs the illegal aliens to maintain the dairy industry.  Just like that.. amazing.  Pay the wages and get an American Citizens, and that thug didn't know that.. or didn't care.  In any case, he told Rubio to buzz off and if he skips, I think we will do the right thing.  What is going to happen is already set by the Democratic Party.. there is no point in his being their.

McCain, by the way, thinks all the illegal aliens in this country are nanny's and care takers.  Between Senator Leahy, Senator Schumer and Senator McCain, the American People didn't have a chance with the Senate.  What is going to be important.. critical in fact.. is what happens in the House of Representatives effort.  Keep in mind too.. and Obama knows it well..  every day the President stalls, things get harder to do, and look a lot worse for a very crummy Congress and President. 

Desertpirate
Desertpirate

I don't know which is worse, the fact that Rubio is a coward who refuses to actually go out and meet the people in California, Arizona, Texas, Illinois and Michigan who would 'benefit' from immigration reform, or the fact that an Anglo-centric media that doesn't know a tostada from a medianoche or a mariachi from a son thinks that Rubio somehow will somehow pull in Latinos for the Republican Party. Until Rubio can come up with a real answer as to how a Cuban, a group of whom that if they set one toe on American soil are granted asylum in this country while Mexicans are profiled, persecuted and reviled here, is qualified to speak for Latinos, 70% of whom are Mexican, on this topic. Again, while refusing to meet them directly and instead speaking only to a mainstream media that is ignorant about latin diversity.

drudown
drudown

As a threshold matter, people on both sides of the partisan divide should dispassionately accept several facts, cultural realities and commercially reasonable alternatives to juxtapose against the merits of any past, present or future Immigration "reform". First, the protections that the concurrent jurisdiction of the State (i.e., Federal and Several States) affords to the People requires tax revenue to administrate. Whether these services and benefits relate to Fire, EMT, Police, Education, Judges, Doctors, Lawyers, Patrol, et al....these are Privileges and Immunities of Citizenship. There are roughly 4 million in line already. Let's call it 5 million. Living in the US is not just a dream for foreign nationals, their brethren's immersion constitutes the very fabric of our society. We are a nation of immigrants in every sense. America IS European, Asian, Hispanic, African, Austr./NZ...all at once: but there is an ordered precedent and "amnesty" requires a cost/benefit that cannot be reconciled as long as a "no new taxes" obstruction exists. Here, our elected officials in Congress of both parties seem inexplicably and unapologetically prepared to invite ongoing, exponentially costly obligations while saying: "no new revenues, ever"...a policy that is obviously incongruous and, indeed, mutually exclusive with the proposed Immigration "reform". Aside from the fact such a massive dilution of the People's voting rights seemingly has no authority under the United States Constitution, the conspicuous fact it immediately requires (what else) additional, "nanny state" concerns about the "newly created" underclass of foreign nationals tends to underscore how it turns the GOP's purported principles on its head. Wait. Can it be, that my once party GOP, is too chicken to build an actual fortified border but will allow the "amnesty" en mass for artists formerly known as people with passports from other nations and families that lived in other sovereigns. Sweet lip service to fiscal prudence, now laid out like a ______...wide open for garbage...disposal that also requires revenue. 

O Angel, what can the People do.

The People should at least have the option of voting on any such Constitutional amendment, for that it what it is. So, tell me, "strict construction," where, where...is your express language and Supreme Court precedent based thereon for this colossal Equal Protection Clause subverting monstrosity?


I see a class being treated differently, amidst widespread hypocrisy.

MikeJones
MikeJones

just the NAME hispanic..and latino makes my skin crawl.....YUK....GET OUT!!!!

MikeJones
MikeJones

Let in 50 Million Chinese while you are at it? Anything goes with these bought and paid for CROOOOKS!!!

MikeJones
MikeJones

All Lies...positioning and LIES is Rubio's Middle Name.....he is a CROOK...do not believe a word

this paid off shyster says.....now he shows how STUPID he is being involved in this LOSER ISSUE..supporting

Criminal aliens....not a big starter with AMERICANS....this guy is an ANUS.

drudown
drudown

New 'Classes' Of Future Amnesty Illegal Immigrants From Asia, Africa and Europe Mobilizing For Next 'Reform', AP Reports

dee
dee

BWT there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant, there are undocumented people, there are people who immigrated illegally to the US, there is illegal immigration, but people cannot be illegal.  If someone was driving with a driving ticket they would not be called an illegal driver, anyone who drank when they were underage is not called an illegal drinker and so on.  

People don't worry too much about immigration, illegal or otherwise when the people immigrating tend to look like them, but if they are different, in this case browner, then suddenly the people themselves become illegal and the source of all that is wrong in the US, when all the scientific research into the subject shows otherwise.

dee
dee

There is a tendency to assume that members within minority groups (and occasionally this is expanded to all minorities) in the states all have the same views on certain issues, that the same issues are important to the one example of this would be the Hispanic community and immigration.  I find it hard to believe that Hispanics are 1) single issue voters and 2) that all Hispanics would have the same view about immigration.


As for the first view (that Hispanics are single issue voters) I am curious to see if for the republicans just showing that they are working on immigration will be enough to bring more Hispanics on board, I have my doubts, but we shall see.

On the second issue, from what I understand Mr. Rubio is Cuban and for Cubans the immigration issue is very different from that of other Hispanics, indeed very different from that of other groups in the Caribbean and south America.  Cubans have benefited from a rule that once they step foot (wet foot/dry foot policy) in the US, they are eligible to become US citizens.  So they never really have to worry about the whole illegal immigration issues.  

 So it is entirely possible that Mr. Rubio does not really care that much about immigration even though it is important to many Hispanics, because as a Cuban, he and his family never really had to worry about that issue, they were given a pathway to citizenship that most other immigrant groups don't have.

So immigration policy would make very little difference for Cuban Americans, however for other Hispanic groups the immigration issue is very different.   Hispanics as a minority group are very diverse and their views, needs and thoughts about immigration I am sure are equally diverse.

BajaRat
BajaRat

Stick a fork in Rubio. He's done.

If the GOP gets behind an amnesty they are finished because invaders will never vote for them and neither will patriotic conservatives. I say build a wall and deport every last one of those border-jumpers. NOW!

DaveFrancis
DaveFrancis

NOW is the time to build an exact replica along the U.S. border, THE FENCES that goes through San Diego into the coastal waters of California? It has a marked success rate of not only stopping illegal aliens, but the movement of drugs into California.The original design was based on Rep. Duncan Hunters the Secure Fence, a bill signed into law in 2006. The $57.7 million project is one section in the massive expansion of border infrastructure approved by Congress. In 2005, Hunter (R-CA) introduced legislation calling for the construction of a reinforced fence along the entire U.S.-Mexico border, citing crime statistics as measures of San Diego-Tijuana fence's successes. So after productively adding an amendment to a House-passed the bill that ultimately stalled in House-Senate negotiations, Hunter's amendment was later incorporated into H.R. 6061, the 200 Secure Fence Act signed by former President Bush.

THE law cited (1) systematic surveillance of the international land andmaritime borders of the United States through more effective useof personnel and technology, such as unmanned aerial vehicles,ground-based sensors, satellites, radar coverage, and cameras;and(2) physical infrastructure enhancements to prevent unlawfulentry by aliens into the United States and facilitate access to the international land and maritime borders by United StatesCustoms and Border Protection, such as additional checkpoints, all weather access roads, and vehicle barriers. (b) Operational Control Defined.--In this section, the term ``operational control'' means the prevention of all unlawful entries into the United States, including entries by terrorists, other unlawful aliens, instruments of terrorism, narcotics, and other contraband.

IT was Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-Tex.) who attached S.Amdt 2466 to the measure in order to noiselessly gut the SFA's spending requirement. Conservatives labeled Hutchison as a traitor after she slipped an amendment into the federal budget bill that passed in May 2006 that some say efficiently killed the border fence."The Hutchinson amendment stated… “nothing in this paragraph shall require the secretary of homeland security to install fencing, physical barriers, roads, lighting and, cameras and sensors in a particular location along the international border of the United States, if the secretary determines that the use or placement of such resources is not the most appropriate means to achieve and maintain operation control over the international border at such location.”

 

DaveFrancis
DaveFrancis

NOW is the time to revise the 2006 Secure Fence Act with no amendments, to cut a defense swathe from Brownsville, Texas to hook up with the San Diego fences. A double layer prison type reinforced chain link fence for the interior, coordinated with a double track way between, for the accelerated movement of Border Patrol vehicles and would force illegal border crossers to scale two barriers instead of one. For the exterior fencing, a solid, concrete and steel fence separating us from our Southern neighbor. Both the inside fences would be at least 15 foot high, and adorned with flesh eating concertina barbed wire An major obstacle to any drug traffickers or illegal aliens or any individual or thing, to slip into America. We have a porous border of almost 2,000 miles long with precious little passable protection. And yet there's plenty of money for the legalization of an underestimated 11 million illegal aliens in the oncoming Comprehensive Reform bill.Members of Congress who care more about protecting their own seats than the 23 million America's jobs are a wretched disgrace to their oaths. Texas U.S. Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) was a sponsor of Hutchinson’s totally negligent amendment that she inserted into the already approved $555 billion Omnibus Spending Bill at the last minute.

SO before any more time passes, bombard your Senators and House Congressional Representatives demanding the real, fences, not the sieve type thing (singular) that appears mostly in built up areas that is currently in operation. A double layer fence approved by Congress of appropriated funds that Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchinson cannot compromise this time. That whoever illegally arrives there in the future is greeted with an almost impregnable structure that stretches into the horizon, and the only way through the fences is at the legal ports of access. It should be a formidable task to climb it, with all Seeing Eye of powerful cameras on rising platforms way above the open range, deserts, rivers and lakes. Inside the two parallel barriers a “No man’s land” within the fences perimeters intermittent electronic sensors that is able to locate people on either side of the tracks who manage to scale the concertina razor wire on the top of the fences. But with time as an essential element, soon detected would bring the rapid arrival of federal agents. If amended thousands of able bodied construction workers out of work, who had to compete with foreign nationals and lost to cheap labor, should be hired by the U.S government to construct the fence. No foreign national should have the opportunity to gain any form of “Green Card” or legal status, until the last steel piling is settled into the ground. You can petition your Washington representatives at (202) 224-3121 to insist on a federal ID card for all Americans issued to impede illegal aliens, taking American jobs, to cut down on voter fraud, credit theft and available to buy a handgun for protection. Learn more at NumbersUSA and American Patrol that serves the people to enlighten them on the truth not lies about illegal immigration.Read the real news reports at American Patrol, not the bogus propaganda from the Liberal press. ITS A MUST READ THE AMERICAN PATROL DAILY REPORT

 

DaveFrancis
DaveFrancis

A TV crew from ARD, Germany, spent yesterday getting a briefing on the situation on the U.S.-Mexico border from American Border Patrol. After a briefing by Glenn Spencer, head of American Patrol web site, the Germans filmed a demonstration of the Sonic Barrier, a system that could finally solve the border problem. Spencer took the reporter and cameraman on an aerial tour of the border, including a flight over what is known as the "Amnesty Trail."Then a Danish Broadcasting TV crew flew along the border across Arizona and reporter Peter Keldorff asked as we flitted along the border east of Douglas. “Why didn't they finish the fence? It's silly to build a fence if all you have to do is walk around it," he added.

"AFTER getting a complete picture of the border situation, I can honestly say these people were truly stunned," Spencer said. Producer Juergen asked why American TV doesn't visit ABP. He told him ABP is blacked out "because we know too much." During the SONIC BARRIER test a group of four people were detected 400 feet from the sensor line --- during a fairly brisk wind. Spencer explained that if the Sonic Barrier was installed along the border that leads to the Amnesty Trail, it could be shut down. Spencer said reporter Stuchlik seemed befuddled at the failure of our government to secure the border when the technology to do so was available?

A new innovation is being used to check statistics of how many illegal aliens are reported crossing the border, when the left says the numbers have dropped. In actual fact according to this new state of the art camera unit, that had been used in Afghanistan the numbers of foreign nationals are intensifying. It just goes to show that the word of a new Comprehensive reform policy for illegal immigrants is drawing hundreds of thousands towards the border regions.

 

sacredh
sacredh

Rubio's options are getting his @ss kicked in the primary elections or in the general election.

24AheadDotCom
24AheadDotCom

No big surprise that this article is just about process and personality, like if TigerBeat covered politics.

If you want to know how Rubio's plans would *fail miserably*, see my discussion:

http://24ahead.com/s/marco-rubio

That includes a FAQ and several detailed posts showing how his plans would harm the U.S.

MikeJones
MikeJones

SELF DEPORT would be a DREAM come true......Romney was definitely correct...now we are

faced with criminal aliens being coddled by dopey senators who need voted OUT.

MikeJones
MikeJones

We can give 1 WEEK notice..nationwide..televized etc...HAVE your papers WITH you at all times

or face deportation....then start arresting anyone who looks like an illegal alien from mexico.

If they have PAPERS or Birth certificate...No Problem...otherwise get loaded into Livestock Trailers

and Boxcars headed to their mexican Daddy..el Presidente de meheeko....

deepellum2mt
deepellum2mt

@Desertpirate be careful there. If you think Rubio can't pull Hispanic votes because he's Cuban, then by that logic Obama shouldn't have pulled black votes, because he is quite literally almost 100% culturally white. People don't care about where you trace your DNA from. They care about packaging and appearance. It's instinctive to like people, especially those who are in public positions of power, who look like you (whether you're white, black, or brown). It's also instinctive to like people who *sound* like you as well, two things Rubio already has down.

tkulaga
tkulaga

@aztecian He is Jeb's puppet. The good thing is Latino's can't trust him and the majority of voters are not going to vote for a Cuban POTUS.

dee
dee

@drudown 

As one of those people that stood in line for a very, very long time after bringing myself into the states on my own merits (and of course I can't speak for any other immigrant), I think that there needs to be a way to legalize those already here (most of which are already working and paying taxes).  The entire immigration system, not just that part dealing with illegal immigration needs some serious reform.  

 Many immigrants  both legal and illegal (myself included before I held a green card) pay taxes in various forms from sales taxes to income taxes.  Just to put things in perspective, when I lived in Italy an American relative came to stay, she got sick, we took her to the hospital where she was treated for free, courtesy of the Italian tax payers.

What a different America we are in now from the one that had this inscribed on a plaque at the statue of liberty"

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Smith1980
Smith1980

@MikeJones This immigration reform will happen and I will laugh at you so hard!!!! Just wait, now it is just a matter of time. LOL!

drudown
drudown

@dee 

I find it disconcerting that the Media is not more self-conscious of the Constitutional dimensions for such purported "reform". Your points are particularly instructive insofar you expressly refer to this "immigration issue" and even ask how "minority groups such as Hispanics" think or feel they need through immigration policy. Let's back up a second and ask "under what precedent is such 'reform' even to be based'?" The law does not account for any particular group's ethnicity or "race" when State Action is implicated. How can anyone purport to reconcile this "reform" with the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment? Why should entire classes of any race get preferential treatment with regards to funds, programs and causes?

Oh, I forgot. 

The GOP lost and is looking for a way to create a newer, more malleable voting bloc.

RickInIndy
RickInIndy

@MikeJones And last time I heard, Romney lost an by a considerable margin. Sucker got it all backwards.

RickInIndy
RickInIndy

@MikeJones and last time I heard Romney lost by a considerable margin. The sucker got it all wrong.

melonheadx13
melonheadx13

@MikeJones dopey is right.  they bitch about 12 million low skill immigrants then they propose to allow 200,000 low wage immigrants into the usa on a visa allowing them temporary legal status and a path to citizenship while also letting them immediately quit the job they came to do and undercut wages for the rest of the low skill immigrants.  it's insanity.

the other insanity would be the german vacation of rounding them all up and sending them home in cattle cars.  that would hardly cost anything.

TyPollard
TyPollard

@MikeJones 

I nominate YOU for head of minority out reach in the latino/hispanic community!

Desertpirate
Desertpirate

@deepellum2mt @Desertpirate I didn't say Rubio can't pull Latino votes. I said that if he continues down his current course of pandering to an Anglo-centric media that does not understand that Latin-Americans in this country are not a homogenous group culturally while never taking his message to the people he purports to help, he has zero chance of capturing a significant portion of the Mexican vote. Mexicans in general don't trust Cubans because they have gotten historically and continue to get a free ride and sympathy in matters of immigration. They also tend to be more to the left in many of the economic issues facing this country. So while Rubio stands up and looks pretty for a bunch of cameras cementing himself as a presidential candidate for the Republican Party, he fails to reach out directly to the constituents he theoretically is supposed to deliver. Chew on this: Latinos of Mexican origins make up about 70% of the total Latin American population of the United States. I can assure you that in Miami, a city where Spanish is the first language for more than half the households there, Mexicans or Mexican-Americans do not even make up 7% of the population there. Considering how they have permiated so deeply in so many other urban areas in this country, it should warrant consideration that they still avoid Miami, a city with less language barriers in theory, like the plague. Rubio is a coward because he knows that if he actually tried to go out on the streets and meet with Mexicans, he'll either lose his base support or he'll be outed as a fraud who has little real support among the majority of working class Latinos.

marsattacks64
marsattacks64

@deepellum2mt @Desertpirate No, Desertpirate had it right.  Rubio may appeal to a majority of Cubans but not to most other Latinos.  I think a lot of us see it as insulting.  Throw them a Hispanic bone and they'll jump on the bandwagon.

drudown
drudown

@dee @drudown 

Wait, you just said the "majority" of illegal immigrants are "paying taxes"?

That is contrary to common sense at two levels. And seemingly untrue. at both at the employment tax and personal tax level. 

Yes or no.

24AheadDotCom
24AheadDotCom

My page isn't leaning towards a conservative POV, unless one defines "factually correct" as conservative.


Here's a simple test: if someone purports to tell you the correct legal term for something and does not mention the U.S. Code - the main body of laws of the U.S. - they're full of it.


My post (link above) relies on the U.S. Code.


The Time post doesn't even mention the U.S. Code.

dee
dee

@drudown @dee  

Although I am not Hispanic, I am an immigrant to the US, having gone through the process I can see that reform is needed and long overdue.  These laws would not help one class, or race however they would disproportionally affect certain groups such as Asians and Hispanics simply because their numbers are larger.

 Entire classes of different races (including whites) get preferential treatment with regards to funds, programs and causes in many areas of American life.  Entire groups of Americans have better access to health care, good education, higher education, legal protections, and enjoy preferential treatment when it comes to taxes loans etc.  For example if you are married, you get tax breaks that you don't if you are not.  If you have children, you get tax breaks that you don't if you don't have offspring.  Children who's parents went to a specific college, get preferential treatment when it comes to getting into that college, some racial groups are denied loans, or given unfavorable loan terms even though their credit rating is identical to that of people in another race, if your parents are rich, you will go to a better school, if you are single you tend to get worse healthcare than if you are in a relationship.  and so on.


One person's preferential treatment is another person's legal protection against discrimination.  For example, if you do a study that shows that if the name on a resume sounds black, and you find that the call backs for that resume are significantly decreased than for EXACTLY the same resume with a white name, then procedures that address that problem might seem preferential, if they are not looked at in context.

Desertpirate
Desertpirate

@melonheadx13 @sacredh Marco Rubio: Cobarde in Cheif

sacredh
sacredh

I'd vote for Santorum before I would for Rubio. I'd also vote for our cat before I'd vote for either one of them.

drudown
drudown

@dee @drudown 

Time out.

Let's analyze my contention methodically. 

Issue: would providing amnesty to stipulated violations of Immigration law be different treatment under the law?

Rule: under the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment, similarly situated persons must be treated the same under law. 

Application: here, to provide amnesty to a specific class of persons within the concurrent jurisdiction of the Federal government and Several States would unfairly treat a definable class of persons with more favorable treatment. Conspicuously, it would be rewarding the very persons that knowingly violated the spirit and intent of the statutory scheme with a preemptive pardon, i.e., thereby subverting Due Process of law as well in one fell swoop.