How Gay Marriage Won

The gay and lesbian community has gone from Stonewall to the altar in two generations

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Cover Photographs by Peter Hapak for TIME

Eager to be eyewitnesses to history, people camped for days in the dismal cold, shivering in the slanting shadow of the Capitol dome, to claim tickets for the Supreme Court’s historic oral arguments on same-sex marriage. Some hoped that the Justices would extend marriage rights; others prayed that they would not. When at last the doors of the white marble temple swung open on March 26 for the first of two sessions devoted to the subject, the lucky ones found seats in time to hear Justice Anthony Kennedy — author of two important earlier decisions in favor of gay rights and likely a key vote this time as well — turn the tables on the attorney defending the traditionalist view. Charles Cooper was extolling heterosexual marriage as the best arrangement in which to raise children when Kennedy interjected: What about the roughly 40,000 children of gay and lesbian couples living in California? “They want their parents to have full recognition and full status,” Kennedy said. “The voice of those children is important in this case, don’t you think?” Nearly as ominous for the folks against change was the fact that Chief Justice John Roberts plunged into a discussion of simply dismissing the California case. That would let stand a lower-court ruling, and same-sex couples could add America’s most populous state to the growing list of jurisdictions where they can be lawfully hitched.

A court still stinging from controversies over Obamacare, campaign financing and the 2000 presidential election may be leery of removing an issue from voters’ control. Yet no matter what the Justices decide after withdrawing behind their velvet curtain, the courtroom debate — and the period leading up to it — made clear that we have all been eyewitnesses to history. In recent days, weeks and months, the verdict on same-sex marriage has been rendered by rapidly shifting public opinion and by the spectacle of swing-vote politicians scrambling to keep up with it. With stunning speed, a concept dismissed even by most gay-rights leaders just 20 years ago is now embraced by half or more of all Americans, with support among young voters running as high as 4 to 1. Beginning with the Netherlands in 2001, countries from Argentina to Belgium to Canada — along with nine states and the District of Columbia — have extended marriage rights to lesbian and gay couples.

Gay Marriage

Peter Hapak for TIME

True, most of the remaining states have passed laws or constitutional amendments reserving marriage for opposite-sex partners. And Brian Brown, president of the National Organization for Marriage, declares that the fight to defend the traditional definition is only beginning. “Our opponents know this, which is why they are hoping the Supreme Court will cut short a debate they know they will ultimately lose if the political process and democracy are allowed to run their course,” he said.

(MOREBehind TIME’s Cover Photos — Portraits of the Gay Marriage Revolution)

But that confidence is rare even among the traditionalists. Exit polls in November showed that 83% of voters believe that same-sex marriage will be legal nationwide in the next five to 10 years, according to a bipartisan analysis of the data. Like a dam that springs a little leak that turns into a trickle and then bursts into a flood, the wall of public opinion is crumbling. That’s not to say we’ve reached the end of shunning, homophobia or anti-gay violence. It does, however, suggest that Americans who are allowed by law to fall in love, share their lives and raise children together will, in the not too distant future, be allowed to get married.

Through 2008, no major presidential nominee favored same-sex marriage. But in 2012, the newly converted supporter Barack Obama sailed to an easy victory over Mitt Romney, himself an avowed fan of Modern Family — a hit TV show in which a devoted gay couple negotiates the perils of parenthood with deadpan hilarity. When even a conservative Mormon Republican can delight in a sympathetic portrayal of same-sex parenthood, a working consensus is likely at hand.

Down the ballot, elected leaders who once faithfully pledged to protect tradition have lined up to announce their conversions. Republican Senator Rob Portman of Ohio said he changed his mind after learning that his son is gay. Red-state Democrats Claire McCaskill of Missouri and Jon Tester of Montana, both skilled political tightrope walkers, also switched, as did Virginia’s Mark Warner. They joined Hillary Clinton and her husband, the former President who signed the Defense of Marriage Act into law during his 1996 re-election bid but is now calling on the Supreme Court to undo his mistake.

(MORE: Watching Kennedy: The Court’s Swing Voter Offers Clues to a Gay-Marriage Ruling)

Such switchers have plenty of company among their fellow citizens. According to a recent survey by the Pew Research Center, 1 in 7 American adults say their initial opposition to same-sex marriage has turned to support. The picture of a nation of immovable factions dug into ideological trenches is belied by this increasingly uncontroversial controversy. Yesterday’s impossible now looks like tomorrow’s inevitable. The marriage license is the last defensible distinction between the rights of gay and straight couples, Cooper told the Justices as he steeled himself to defend that line. But most generals will tell you that when you’re down to your last trench, you are likely to lose the battle.

What’s most striking about this seismic social shift — as rapid and unpredictable as any turn in public opinion on record — is that it happened with very little planning. In fact, there was a lot of resistance from the top. Neither political party gave a hint of support before last year, nor was marriage part of the so-called homosexual agenda so worrisome to social-conservative leaders. For decades, prominent gay-rights activists dismissed the right to marry as a quixotic, even dangerous, cause and gave no support to the men and women at the grassroots who launched the uphill movement.

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1409 comments
gremlint
gremlint

Why would the state want to grant marriage licenses to homosexual couples? What BENEFIT TO SOCIETY could be so great as to warrant such recognition and reward?

THERE IS NONE. Homosexual unions are relatively worthless to society.

The state has no obligation to bronze you a medal for being in love — no matter how narcissistic you are. Marriage is not a soup kitchen for lovers.

The long-established definition of marriage is the union between a man and a woman — a husband and a wife. For those who want to CHANGE that definition, the onus is on them to explain what the FUNDAMENTAL PURPOSE of this "new and improved" marriage would be.

Something is fundamental when it forms a NECESSARY base or core. A fundamental purpose of marriage is one that necessitates the existence of the institution — especially when only marriage fulfills that purpose.

What is the fundamental purpose of marriage?

Why does the state care about the unions of couples?

In their extreme self-centeredness, homosexual activists (and their fawning acolytes) are utterly clueless about such crucial questions.

cloudninegirl
cloudninegirl

I am sick about what's happening in America. Everyday it gets worse, and I admit I have despaired because evil is winning. Good people fight and fight and fight to keep evil from advancing, but it seems to do no good these days. I honestly can't remember the last time good won over evil in this country. My goal now is to keep God on the throne, no matter what I see and hear. HE IS ALL-POWERFUL and can defeat any evil spreading through America if he wants to. I will continue to fight evil, but I will also respect God's will and wait for him to bring change. If the liberal agenda has truly broken our beautiful America once and for all, and she is forever doomed to reap what the liberals have sown, then I KNOW THAT GOD WILL PROTECT ME NO MATTER WHAT, BECAUSE I AM HIS. God will protect his people, even when evil rules and reigns. Remember that, and do not despair when you see evil win. Know that evil never really wins in the end. Keep following God and keep looking to him - honor God, obey his Word, and praise him. Remember too to keep fighting evil when you can, BUT don't dwell on it and let it consume you with anger and bitterness. If you let evil make you bitter and angry, then evil has not only won in America, but it has won in your heart too. Life really IS beautiful, and no matter how evil advances in this world, there is STILL beauty all around you. It is in the smile of a child, the laughter of a friend, the kindness of a stranger, and the warm sun on your face. REMEMBER THE BEAUTY IN LIFE, FOR IT IS A GIFT FROM GOD.

MSKIABS
MSKIABS

there is also homosexuality in the animal kingdom. So if it is so unnatural, than why does it appear so much?


MSKIABS
MSKIABS

for those over religious people who think gay marriage is punishable by god:

you beleive that your god created all men, right?  The god you worship then also created homosexuals. But, you say homosexuals shall be tortured by god because of their views. So, the god you worship creates certain people just to punish and torture them. then, you beleive in evil, YOU practically worship the DEVIL. your beleifs contradict themselves.

(And this was said by a 12 year old, so go suck on Jesus' ****!)

MccartBrenda
MccartBrenda


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OneTwoThreeSmile
OneTwoThreeSmile

It's really interesting. I'm a 90's baby. I'm growing up in this new age of technology and social media. I can tell you- most kids don't care about sexuality anymore, and if they do, they just keep it to themselves. Most Christians I know who are my age are friends with gay kids. I'm a gay Christian myself. Many of us are tired of seeing all the adults fight and make terrible decisions because we're the ones who are going to be living in this world in the next 30-50 years while all of you are dead or dying.

Normal gay people don't want to force their views down anybody's throats. They just want to go out on dates and hold hands in public without being harassed or treated like a subhuman species. And honestly, if you saw the sexual behavior of straight teenage high school boys nowadays, you would NOT be saying that homosexuality is promiscuous. Maybe you should figure out what your kids are getting into when you're not watching before figuring out what somebody ELSE is doing, gay or not.

Fact is, when you raise a child their entire life and learn that they've been hiding a part of it from you because they're afraid you'll hurt them and hate them and throw them away, that your child has been living in fear of you because they think you don't wish happiness for them, that they think you won't be at their prom, wedding, baby shower, all of it because of their orientation, it breaks your heart.

When God blesses you with a happy, healthy child, it's everything you can do to make sure they know you love them. Parents of gay children: don't turn your back on them. They need you now more than ever in a world that doesn't want them in it.

JerryDouglasSheppard
JerryDouglasSheppard

Actually it is far more than 60%, since homosexuality is a choice. Homosexuals are not born that way. If people argue that they are, then I would love to see the evidence for that. Two people of the same gender coming together in the bonds of marriage is by definition "unnatural." It is a moral issue that will affect everybody. Just think about a gay couple having children. Who are these dear children going to call mom and who are they going to call dad? When the poor children has either two dads or two moms. It is moral confusion. It is also rebellion against God's natural order of things (see Genesis 2:18-25; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; 1 Timothy 1:9-10; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13). According to history, many of the great empires of the past such as the Roman Empire, the Greek Empire, and the Babylonian Empire, etc were marked by rampant homosexuality, bestiality, and pedophilia just prior to their fall. North America is now ripe for God's judgment as well, for Canada and the USA are no different than these empires of the past in our foolishly wide acceptance of homosexuality. As the old cliche puts it, "Those who fail to learn from the past are destined to repeat it." And that is exactly what we are doing. Now having said that. Yes, God does LOVE GAY PEOPLE as much as He loves Straight people. He loves gay people so much that He doesn't want them to stay that way. For such people Christ came to die for. THEY CAN CHANGE. Wake up people!

jamiat33
jamiat33

In-sahAllah in the hereafter you will see that homosexuality is a lost in this life as well as the hereafter.--Homosexual Marriage will never win

anniemarieECWI
anniemarieECWI

There are many people, including myself, who believe that gay people should have the same rights as straight people. I believe these rights should extend to the legal privileges of marriage. If a man loves another man, he should be able to inherit his partners' belongings if he were to die suddenly. He should be able to hold his hand in the hospital room when his life is on the line. Two lesbians spending their lives together shouldn't have to be on separate insurance plans. However, I believe that a change is needed in terminology to legitimize the rights of same-sex couples; when gay men or lesbians join together under the law, don't call it marriage.


The gay marriage impetus maintains that it is unfair to intermingle law with religion, that it isn't right to force one single moral code upon the entire citizenry. They say that arguing that God didn't create Adam and Steve is a religious belief and cannot be used to justify condemning same-sex marriage. However, what they meant was that Adam and Eve or Steve or the Bible in general isn't legal reason to condemn same-sex relationships. Marriage is a religious term. Marriage is based on religion. Marriage has a religious definition that long ago was inducted into the United States law. The Bible created a definition for marriage. Obviously, many people disagree with this definition. So, another word that has the definition so many people desire needs to be created, and then anyone can enjoy a legal partnership that has all the benefits of traditional marriage. However, changing the definition of a word that is based on a religion by which one simply wish not to be governed is hypocritical and unlawful.


God loves all people regardless of the labels of gay, straight, bisexual and transgender. He created us in His image with the intention of giving us the gift of strong minds and kind hearts, hoping that we would one day learn to treat all humans respectfully. However, God didn't make marriage between two men or two women. Call it something other than marriage, and there is no problem. If religion should not interfere with a person's rights, then a person should not demand rights under a sacred religious word. No person should ever feel entitled to changing the definition of a word of religion unless he or she wishes to have religion be entitled to the same governing abilities.


This is an issue of equality under the law, not of marriage.

DavidBorsani
DavidBorsani

So Happy the Retardicans lost and Obama is on our side!  Gay Rights are coming to a town near you.  God Bless the USA!   The constitution is on our side.  Equality, liberty and Justice for all! 

KingratRat
KingratRat

The thought of Gay marriage just sickens me to my core, it equates to seeing human and animal sex, it is wrong, it is just wrong.If gay marriage is so right, then we might as well through out the Bible, the Koran, and any other religious edict, for as people, we are lost and we will pay for are Transgressions as a whole.The Idea of America, the land of the free and the brave started out as a nice dream, but then there was that slavery thing, and then we killed most of the Indians and now we have gay marriage.Someone once said that America was blesses, who and what would bless America, surely not God.

KingratRat
KingratRat

The thought of Gay marriage just sickens me to my core, it equates to seeing human and animal sex, it is wrong, it is just wrong.

If gay marriage is so right, then we might as well through out the Bible, the Koran, and any other religious edict, for as people, we are lost and we will pay for are Transgressions as a whole.

The Idea of America, the land of the free and the brave started out as a nice dream, but then there was that slavery thing, and then we killed most of the Indians and now we have gay marriage.

Someone once said that America was blesses, who and what would bless America, surely not God.

Libtards-UNITE
Libtards-UNITE

I like the pictures of the girls kissing much more.

Annoymous
Annoymous

I would like to point out the age approval gap, and that I think this article is sooo, true simply because of age. what most homophobes forget is that sooner or later everyone dies. As a 16 year old, personally see where the future generation is headed, and right now it is so "like, I don't care-people do what they do". Us, the young people the future, we DON'T care. Its your life, do what you want, we may have our preferences but you can have yours. There are exceptions to everything, young people both in favor and against, but the majority, don't think its our business. Relevant only in that Marriage is in fact a religious thing and has been forever, but now its also a state thing and as such needs to be separated from our traditional (American) catholic views. After all thousands of people in the Middle East have HORRIBLE laws for there women. They even have multiple wives, all of which (better be) against everything we are taught here in the U.S again, OLDER PEOPLE ARE OUTDATED, we don't wear out fits from the 60's, why are we still supporting views and thoughts from it? SO I agree with this article, the Gay rights movement doesn't need to lift a finger, time will uncover everything.

GospelLifeNow
GospelLifeNow

On what do you base your morality, biology, emotion, or the created order? 

A time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They'll follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. (2 Tim 4:3)

demonicyin11
demonicyin11

Now don’t get me wrong, some gays probably do throw it in your face. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen two straight people going at it in a hallway where they seriously would need a room though. BAM!!! Thrown in my face but in reality I’m not a huge baby about it because I DON’T CARE. The point is homosexuals won’t ruin marriage and peoples’ ignorance is hurting me. I’m a veteran of both Iraq and Afghanistan, and I’ve almost been kicked out 3 times yet have been the Best Warrior of my unit. Why? Because I am awesome and what I do in the bedroom has no effect on how I contribute to society. The marriage thing…it is about the benefits that go with it…duh. We are like…all raised to go to school, get a job and someday get married. Hey look, that is traditional!!! I would like to someday marry a girl…since I was 5 and do you know how horrifying that is as a child to know that when you grow up in a world so opposed to it. I don’t know how many times I’ve been beat up for it and for what? Ignorance? Guess what peeps, you have NO idea who I am and if they legalize “gay” marriage you will also NEVER know if I get married. So, what does it really matter?

demonicyin11
demonicyin11

You know, this is freaking hilarious. Let me tell you what I want. I don’t want to force my homosexual ways on anyone. I want to be myself. I don’t flaunt my gayness around, I act exactly the way straight people do in public with their significant others. I don’t want “gay” marriage. I want to be able to marry the person I love because I freaking deploy all the time serving my country, giving up my freedoms for others, and just want to know my significant other is taken care of. Wow, that seems normal doesn’t it? You know, all the wants and needs of an individual is exactly the same up to the point of who it is with, whether they are same-sex or hetero. That is what I find so hilarious is ONE, minor difference. The argument that gay families will make more gay people… You do realize I come from a heterosexual family right? You want to protect the traditional sense of marriage, here is an idea. 1) How about you start fighting against divorce. 2) Maybe shows like the Bachelor or shows that display how insane brides are up to the wedding shouldn’t be aired on television. You want to talk about a mockery of marriage. 3) How about you tell me how valid and traditional marriages are that are done in Vegas between two people that got hitched in a drunken night. Yep, that holds down the sanctity of marriage firmly.

MarkFulton
MarkFulton

The cover of the April 9th issue is offensive to me. Whenever I witness homosexual behavior it causes an innate feeling of disgust. To get a sense of what I mean watch the Louisville bench as they witness Kevin Ware break his leg. At my core level I feel these actions are wrong. Court decisions and/or public opinion will never change this.

RyanMeade
RyanMeade

Maybe we  should just have a referendum vote on this issue nationwide, since public opinion seems to be so heavily in favor of it.  Oh yeah, they've already done that is some states.  Most notably, blue state California, which passed prop 8 by a landslide.

Jane112233
Jane112233

I'd like to point out that the decision has not yet been made. I think it is presumptuous for Time to assume that most people support this view. Same-sex marriage was defeated in more states than it has won. It is legal for same-sex marriage in only 9 states. Now, the decision will be made... not by the American people... but by non-elected Supreme Court justices. Facts are pesky things.

PhilJeffries
PhilJeffries

Gay marriage is an insult to real marriage (man and a woman). The thing that annoys me the most is the LGBT consistently shoving their beliefs down our throats expecting society to accept the beliefs of a minority group exhibiting deviant behavior. I also despise band wagoners jumping on this gay marriage fad to seem 'cool' and 'edgy' (Kony 2012 anyone?). Honestly if gay marriage gets passed then what's next? I'll make the extreme example of another deviant behavior called pedophilia (which I by no means agree with) to prove the point. If it can be proven that a minor truly loves an adult then why can't they get married? I'll probably get labelled a bigot for this by gay marriage supporters, who pretty much label anyone who disagrees with their point of view as such. This is despite me never actually holding anything against gays as people. I have beliefs and gay marriage conflicts with them.

gremlint
gremlint

1. Sexual orientation is psychological.

2. Animal behavior is irrelevant to questions about complex human psychology — because the minds of non-primates are incapable of "homosexual orientation" that overwhelms the instinct to procreate.

3. It is utterly ridiculous anthropomorphism to conclude that sexual acts in animals with primitive cognition are somehow proof of homosexual orientation.

4. Even if there were "gay iguanas", animal behavior is irrelevant to the issue of marriage.


Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@JerryDouglasSheppard 

Another problem I have with the "It's a choice" angle.... why is it that faith based recovery centers for gays always fail... why is it that gays cant be turned straight? And above all what is so far up the butts of the religious that they cannot see their own failures?

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@JerryDouglasSheppard 

What if I think your God and Holy Book are useless garbage with less wisdom found within than a Crackerjack Box?

PutresVigil
PutresVigil

"If people argue that they are, then I would love to see the evidence for that."

Science doesn't work that way. There are people who claim to become homosexual but, in all likelihood, they are sexual addicts or (in the case of bisexuals) simply discovering the other side of their sexuality. CT scans show homosexual men have brain structure similar to women (and homosexual women have brain structure similar to men) . As for proof beyond any shadow of doubt, again, that isn't how psychology or science works. Science works within the confines of what we do know rather than what might be true and all evidence points to this being natural. If someone claims to be depressed we don't automatically assume they are lying and kick them out of the office, we speak to them, learn their history, and go from there. Modern psychology has come to the consensus that, for most homosexuals as we understand them, they will be that way forever.

Now for you; why don't you prove your interpretation of your Bible is right. If you interpretation is correct then why do so many biblical scholars disagree with you then? Almost no bible scholar agrees that the Bible ever references homosexuality in it's modern form - they are referencing pagan practices of the time. You claim great empires fall due to homosexuality but as far as I am concerned, unless you have peer reviewed evidence that such is the case then I am declaring that point a hoc ergo proctor hoc logical fallacy at best. And don't argue that infallibility of scripture as it is written nonsense either - if you believe that you are either a Calvinist, a fool, or a hypocrite. You can't have both free will and God subsuming the free will of prophets and using them like big typewriters; that is logically untenable. 

In addition, if that is the way it works, why are there so many churches? Wouldn't a perfect, simple to understand truth that is clear cut have only one church? Why so many bible scholars and theologians? Why does a supposedly perfect-as-it-is text need apologists to explain it? Why can I write something more clearly than God can? Isn't your God perfect? Why am I a superior writer to your God?

I happen to be a homosexual male myself. I am hardly fit to be lumped with pedophiles and animal abusers as I have always craved romantic closeness and love, not mere gratification. I have longed for cuddling, nuzzling, and the softer side of human connection from another who is capable of giving it in return - it is not my fault I am who I am and I have longed for my own gender for as long as I can remember back. If that makes me evil then it is an evil I am not responsible and (if you are correct) I will go to hell with clean conscience, knowing that I was not in the wrong. Better to be excommunicated than live in violation of good. I doubt that is the case, though - I am betting that the altar of human greatness at which you worship is is just another false idol.

Joseph.
Joseph.

@JerryDouglasSheppard As far as i can tell, it is not a sin to share love, and homosexuals should be able to pursue happiness, like the Declaration of Independence states. The Roman empire fell, not because of homosexuality. it fell because of hate and separation, between the rich and the poor. If there was something to cause this country to fall, it shall be the hate and separation of it's people. The Greek fell because of wars that rampaged through it's cities and the Babylonians were taxed with constant war and conquering, all due to greed. Christ died for our sins, and once again, love is not a sin, but hate, and anger, is.

buffalo.barnes102
buffalo.barnes102

@jamiat33 A strange statement from a religion that thrives on young boys and I would say "abuses" women, but you people take it to a whole new and sickening level. You don't have a leg to stand on, SweetPea.

MarkPommier
MarkPommier

@anniemarieECWI Wrong on all counts! Congratulations! Marriage is NOT religious. It must exist in secular society to ensure that estates remain in families. It is the STATE that confirms or denies marriage, not the religious whackjobs. The STATE allows clergy to marry, so long as they fill out the proper paperwork.

Yet you spout about hijacking a stupid word....a word that you've hijacked.

Hadrewsky
Hadrewsky

@KingratRat 

Throwing out the Bible would be the best damned thing to happen to the West... Get rid of the Koran and we achieve world peace

DavidBorsani
DavidBorsani

@KingratRat Wah  Wah Wah.  Oh Please.  Ye who have no sin cast the first stone.  Stop Judging!  I have been Married to my partner for 11 years and it has no affect on your life.  I deserve all the rights that the straights have.  Get over it! 

PutresVigil
PutresVigil

@GospelLifeNow Another false teacher and worshiper of the flesh. Ironic, that you quote the very thing that warns the world against your very actions here. Truth has nothing to fear from the light - only arrogance and fabricated, flaccid traditions born of that arrogance hide there. Your mind is so polluted by the wisdom of the ages and tradition that you will never see the truth. I do pity you, false teacher.

collioure
collioure

@MarkFulton

Well, most homosexual behavior is hard-wired at birth. So it’s as natural for homosexuals to seek someone of the same sex as it is for you to seek someone of the opposite sex.

PutresVigil
PutresVigil

@Jane112233 Facts seem especially pesky for your type, it seems. The Supreme Court Justices decide on things that the people can't decide on. Since we have maniacs claiming this will end the world and enough blue collar mouth breathers believe this unsubstantiated tripe, they will now be the grown ups and decide, for us. You can't trust We The People on certain things - unless you thin Segregation was a great idea, of course.

collioure
collioure

@Jane112233

Jane, I'm afraid the Constitution + Bill of Rights do not recognize differences between men and women. This is clearly an equal rights matter and all of us are equal before the law. Hence there is no reason two individuals of the same sex may not marry in the same way as one of each sex. I think it's really that simple.I understand the Court does not want to make a sweeping ruling before its time (as it did on abortion), but I expect lopsided decisions in both of these cases.

pretendods2
pretendods2

@Jane112233 yeah the title is very misleading and it really shouldn't say that it has won when it hasn't even been decided yet. the hearing's not till June and yet articles like these are acting like it's already won. just bc people are for it or against it doesn't mean it's won or lost. it's still being decided by the Supreme Court and until a decision is made shouldn't just assume things.

PutresVigil
PutresVigil

"Interracial marriage is an insult to real marriage (same colored man and a same colored woman). The thing that annoys me the most is the Civil Rights activists consistently shoving their beliefs down our throats expecting society to accept the beliefs of a minority group exhibiting deviant behavior. I also despise band wagoners jumping on this interracial marriage fad to seem 'cool' and 'far out' (Rock and Roll, anyone?). Honestly if interracial marriage gets passed then what's next? I'll make the extreme example of another deviant behavior called homosexuality (which I by no means agree with) to prove the point. If it can be proven that a man truly loves another man then why can't they get married? I'll probably get labelled a bigot for this by interracial marriage supporters, who pretty much label anyone who disagrees with their point of view as such. This is despite me never actually holding anything against blacks as people. I have beliefs and interracial marriage conflicts with them."

- Phil Jeffries of Fifty Years Ago 

Make no mistake people - no peaceful Ku Klux Klansmen who simply espoused verbally and never actively, physically harmed the focus of his anger ever felt he was a bigot; these men merely felt that they were goodly gentlemen who were defending the Godly traditional values of their Southern Baptist upbringing. This is the same fight.

pio1992
pio1992

@PhilJeffries There is a very simple answer to your concern with pedophilia. Marriage (at least the one LGBT communities are fighting  for) is a civil contract. The law indicates that a contract can only be stablished between to CONSENTING and CAPABLE adults (over 18 in most countries). The law determines that minors are, by definition, incapable, and as such can not join in the contract of marriage, because they lack such a characteristic. That eliminates the possibility that concerns you, but as most lawyers may agree leaves this contract open to even same sex couples, if the can prove to be consenting and capable.

pretendods2
pretendods2

@PhilJeffries whereas two gay people together doesn't hurt not one single person but people are acting like it does and acting like pedophilia is something to be compared to with them when it isn't. so yeah. you want to bring pedophilia into it then fine but i know exactly how different it is.

pretendods2
pretendods2

@PhilJeffries well first off it's not an insult to marriage but besides that you also called it deviant when there is nothing deviant about it and are comparing it to pedophelia which sounds alot like that youre holding something against them to me. and secondly if you truly think the courts will allow that then i'd love for you to take a bunch of pedophiles together and bring them to court to try and make a case and i guarantee it wouldn't get very far. pedophilia can hurt a child both physically and emotionally. and for your information a child can truly love an adult but problem is it can hurt physically like in the case of my half sister when an adult male took advantage of her when she was around 12 or 13 and several other girls.

JerryDouglasSheppard
JerryDouglasSheppard

@Joseph. @JerryDouglasSheppard It seems to me you don not understand the differences between "love" mentioned in the Bible. The Greek word "agape" which means "unconditional love." Yes, God loves the homosexual just as much as he loves everyone else, but that in no way means God's love approves of such sins as homosexuality. The apostle Paul gives this insight about "love," "Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth" (1 Corinthians 13:6, NIV). This of course applies to the Greek word "eros" which speaks of "romantic love." For a man to share this kind of romantic love (that is strictly reserved between a man and a woman) with another man is wrong in God's eyes, "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable" (Leviticus 18:22, NIV). Now Joseph as for your supposed history lesson on the Roman, Greek, and Babylonian Empires, and what you said about their causes in their fall is fallacious. For one, I never said that Rome fell because of homosexuality. What I said was it was one of the signs among many that marked its end. Joseph, you are not being honest with the facts of history. Either that, or you are ignorant of the history of these great empires. You really need to hit the history books and read the facts my friend. I could spoon feed you the facts of what were the causes of each of these Empires to fall. But I neither have the time to do that, and besides, I find it far more effective if you are honest enough to face the facts, to read the truth about what history reveals about the end of each of these Empires. Now as for "hate, and anger" being sinful. Yes and no, depending on the context you are implying. For example, "hating" another human being made in the image of God is sinful. However, hating their sin, whether it be "murder, stealing, cheating, etc." is NOT sinful. Because God hates the sin, but loves the sinner. Now as for "anger," it is NOT sinful to be angry at injustices inflicted upon others. For example, it made me righteously "angry" when I heard in recent News stories of a few young teenage girls being brutally gang raped. And so it should make anyone with half a heart "angry" at such sin committed against these precious teenage girls. Now being "angry" at someone due to jealousy is sinful. I'm sure more examples of sinful anger could be given, but I'm sure you get the point.

AlyaHassan
AlyaHassan

get your facts right before attacking a religion of abusing women!!

AmosMoses
AmosMoses

@pio1992  

Would the law allow two siblings of consenting age to enter into this LGBT Marriage civil contract?

AmosMoses
AmosMoses

@pretendods2@PhilJeffries 

Homosexuality is ipso facto deviant behavior. 

 de·vi·ant [dee-vee-uhnt]  1. deviating or departing from the norm; 

norm [nawrm]  1. a standard, model, or pattern. 2. general level or average:

MSKIABS
MSKIABS

@brahms @collioure @MarkFulton 

because over religous people  make them feel ashamed not to live that life.Then, when they realize that so many other homosexuals are starting to be accepted, they show their true selves in hopes of also being acceoted for who they are.

PutresVigil
PutresVigil

@brahms@collioure@MarkFultonPeople who come out later in life are, likely, living in environments where homosexuality is considered disgusting. Alternately, they have been sold a bill of lies by snake oil salesmen who claim they can cure homosexuality and try it out (or worse yet, try to force a heterosexual relationship only to wind up harming their wife and kids in the process when it does eventually explode).

 I once met a white supremist who felt disgust at the sight of black people and white people together (regardless of gender, usually male female, and just as infuriating/dosgusting). I worked security with the guy. If we ruled based off that then women wouldn't be working and blacks would still be segregated. I am disgusted by brussel sprouts - the fact that they are natural or good for you will never change this, either. 

As for born/innate, there may not be a genetic factor alone or perhaps at all - it maybe a hormonal factor in the womb that alters brain development as well (see "Homosexuality as a Consequence of Epigenetically Canalized Sexual Development" and accompanying study, William R. Rice, Urban Friberg, and Sergey Gavrilets - as a bonus, they actually reference your Identical Twin study).

collioure
collioure

@brahms @collioure @MarkFulton 

I don't know and I really don't care.

We need to forget about singling out homosexuals and lesbians.  They're God's creatures just as much as are you and I, and they should have the same rights.

brahms
brahms

@pio1992 Two homosexuals entering into legal contract is punished by law in some states.

pio1992
pio1992

Thats calles incest, and it is penalized by law, wich means the object of the contrarct would be illegal, which in turn would make it nule or invalid.

AmosMoses
AmosMoses

@pretendods2 

They are not treated like social outcasts.  Where is this destination the you want society to move forward to?  What is your utopia?

pretendods2
pretendods2

@AmosMoses @pretendods2 @PhilJeffries and you think that's all the perfect reason to not allow them to marry and just basically treat them like social outcasts? good to know while you stay in your backwards beliefs the rest of society will move forward no matter what the Supreme Court rules. the rest of society will still move forward

AmosMoses
AmosMoses

@pretendods2 @AmosMoses @PhilJeffries  

It is not my fault that homosexuality is deviant behavior - I did not make up the definition for the word deviant.  Homosexuality is by definition deviant behavior - they are only 3.4% of the population.

BruceLignell
BruceLignell

@AmosMoses @pretendods2 @PhilJeffries So because you Choose to Follow a book of Myths to lead your life as a sheep you see your life as Normal, I see this as being a Deviat. Your Book Says to Judge Not Lest you be Judged......But the Truth in your book reads as nothing but Deviant behavior as you put it. 

pretendods2
pretendods2

@AmosMoses @pretendods2 @PhilJeffries it might not be a behaviour or orientation but it still remains that you are coming up with the same arguments that they had for interracial marriage. and just bc so few people do it does not make it deviant behaviour. you only make it seem deviant bc you don't want to accept other people's differences whether it harms you or not.

pretendods2
pretendods2

@AmosMoses @pretendods2 @PhilJeffries wooooow bravo bc so few people do it that means we must outcast them and treat them like animals (exaggerating i already know) and should not condone it in the slightest even though they can't help who they love and shouldn't treat them like everyone else to marry who they love and seperate them from the rest of the society. oh yes that is the most perfect reason to do all this. thank you for showing the wonderful light.

AmosMoses
AmosMoses

@pretendods2@AmosMoses@PhilJeffries 

You don't understand. 
1. Being black is  not a behavior or orientation.
2. Homosexuality is a deviant behavior because so few people do it.

A Gallup report published in October 2012 by the Williams Institute reported that 3.4% of US adults identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender.

pretendods2
pretendods2

@AmosMoses @pretendods2 @PhilJeffries oh i'm sorry were you saying something that some people back in the day said about interracial marriage? i wasn't really listening. it is not a fact it is deviant behaviour. it's only that way to you and people like you bc you don't want to accept the fact that they are people like you and deserve the same rights as you to marry the one they love.