The Winners and Losers of Election 2012

Who's up and who's down after the arduous, expensive ordeal that was 2012.

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Philip Andrews / Reuters

Attendees celebrate during U.S. President Barack Obama's election night rally in Chicago, Nov. 6, 2012.

The candidates called it the most important election of our lifetime. This time the cliché seemed especially hollow. Yes, there were big issues at stake: the solvency of social programs, the prospect of tax reform, immigration, gay marriage, the size of the military and the proper role of government. But Barack Obama, Mitt Romney and their ceaselessly negative campaigns mostly litigated these issues in sound bites and platitudes. This was a long and petty election marked by Twitter flame wars and silly memes, glitter bombs and moon colonies, Big Bird and binders. But even small campaigns have winners and losers.

Loser: Project Orca. To erase the get-out-the-vote edge Democrats enjoyed in 2008, Romney’s campaign brain trust devised a Web application, code-named Project Orca, designed to track voting tallies in real time. The campaign touted it as a landmark innovation, and Romney boasted it would give the GOP “an unprecedented advantage on Election Day.” This vaunted project was an unmitigated disaster, as Romney volunteer John Ekdahl recounted, so rife with glitches that it may have suppressed Republican turnout instead of bolstering it.

Winner: Jim Messina. He crunched the data, set his sights on turning out a specific segment of the electorate and gambled that the decision to pound Mitt Romney over the summer would pay off. It did. As for Messina, he celebrated the triumph in classic Chicago fashion, with an air punch reminiscent of Michael Jordan’s series-winning buzzer beater over Craig Ehlo and the Cleveland Cavaliers.

(PHOTOS: The 2012 Presidential Election Year in Pictures)

Loser: The Iowa caucuses. Iowa’s first-in-the-nation status haunted the GOP all year. The Ames straw poll, a nonbinding popularity contest in which candidates ply voters with food and musical acts, elevated Michele Bachmann and cashiered Tim Pawlenty, one of the few plausible alternatives to Romney. The caucuses tugged all of the candidates to the right; Jon Huntsman didn’t even bother to contest it, convinced that his Mormonism and his moderate tone on science and social issues were nonstarters. Iowa is a lovely state, but its homogeneous, heavily conservative Republican electorate is not reflective of America’s changing character, and the pandering it demanded did lasting damage to the nominee of its party.

Winner: Women. This year’s most fought-over demographic, female voters were courted incessantly by both candidates. Fifty-five percent broke for Obama and were essential to his triumph; meanwhile, plenty of women notched important wins of their own. New Hampshire elected an all-female congressional delegation plus a new female governor, and thanks to wins by candidates like Tammy Baldwin, Deb Fischer and Elizabeth Warren, women now make up 20% of the Senate, their largest portion in history.

Loser: Swing-state voters. The two major-party campaigns and affiliated groups plowed more than half a billion dollars into a handful of states, gobsmacking voters —only a tiny sliver of whom were undecided — with a near saturation of advertising from which there was no escape. On the plus side of the ledger: their votes were the ones that mattered most.

Winner: Swing-state TV stations. All those ads were a boon to local TV stations in battleground markets, who cashed in big time on the deluge.

Loser: The Tea Party. The movement salvaged defeat from the jaws of victory in several congressional races by nominating extreme candidates. Even the winning candidates had asterisks: Ted Cruz coasted in conservative Texas, and Fischer nearly frittered away a victory in blood-red Nebraska. With the Tea Party’s approval ratings cratering, candidates who proudly flew its flag in 2010 quietly backtracked just two years later. To some extent, the Tea Party’s adherents have simply been subsumed by the GOP, ensuring that its precepts will survive. “Though the label itself had to be scrapped — it has been permanently soiled by images of mad-dog protesters waving don’t-tread-on-me flags — its ideology is the ideology of the right in 2012,” wrote Frank Rich. In other words, the brand is dead; long live the brand.

Winner: Presidential debates. Political scientists cautioned that for all the hoopla, history has shown that debates often don’t matter. This year they did. The succession of televised forums during the Republican primary gave a megaphone to underfunded candidates, vaulting one after another to the top of the polls on the strength of strong performances or, just as often, catchy slogans. (Remember “9-9-9″?) Newt Gingrich’s evisceration of John King just days before the South Carolina primary helped him best Romney in the Palmetto State, extending a race that was on the verge of wrapping up quickly for four more damaging months. Then in October, Romney’s strong debate performance in Denver helped erase much of Obama’s lead.

(MORE: What Happened at the Last Presidential Debate)

Loser: Live tweeting. A new tradition that became ubiquitous yet was almost never useful.

Winner: The Tax Policy Center. This nonprofit, nonpartisan think tank entered the national spotlight in August with its analysis that Romney’s vague economic plan was likely to alleviate the tax burden on high earners and increase it for everyone else. The wonky white paper took center stage during the first presidential debate, when Romney and Obama sparred over (and distorted) its conclusions.

Loser: Conservative megadonors. Conservative super PACs spent heavily in Senate contests and got thoroughly trounced. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce won 1 of 13 races it invested in; the Club for Growth, 2 of 6; FreedomWorks, just 2 of 16. American Crossroads and Crossroads GPS went a combined 3 for 17 in their races (many of which overlapped). But while the operatives staffing these groups still got paid, the benefactors didn’t fare as well. Whales like casino magnate Sheldon Adelson, Texas home builder Bob Perry, Chicago Cubs owner Joe Ricketts and industrialist Howard Simmons got soaked for paltry returns. Then again, at least one wrote it off as the price of doing business. “Paying bills,” said Adelson, who forked over $53 million during the campaign. “That’s how you spend money.”

Winner: Math. An obligatory hat tip to Nate Silver, whose model drew outsize and unreasonable scorn from conservatives (who didn’t like his projections) and pundits (who didn’t understand his methods and resented his certainty). Just as he drew too much scorn, he’ll now reap too much credit, as he was the first to say. Silver was hardly the only expert to nail his predictions, and even the RealClearPolitics polling averages correctly predicted the winner in 49 states.

Loser: Science. Not until Hurricane Sandy’s arrival did climate change rate more than a passing mention. Perhaps Romney’s biggest applause line during his convention speech was a jab at Obama’s 2008 promise to “slow the rise of the oceans.” The election was a reminder of how the Republican Party has repudiated settled science.

Winner: Latinos. Just 29% of Hispanics sided with Romney, an overwhelming rejection that carried Obama to victory and may finally force the conservative movement to modulate its tone toward the nation’s fastest-growing demographic group. Already, House Speaker John Boehner and Fox News host Sean Hannity have called for immigration reforms.

(MORE: Viewpoint: The Power of the Asian and Latino Vote)

Loser: The conservative media. Blinded to reality by their hopes of ousting Obama, Romney mouthpieces like Jennifer Rubin dutifully swallowed Republican spin, parroted debunked canards and dismissed empirical evidence — like hard polling data — that didn’t fit precooked conclusions. Karl Rove, Dick Morris, George Will, Michael Barone and others were all wildly off the mark with their rosy electoral predictions. And yet readers almost certainly won’t hold them accountable for their mistakes.

Winner: Chris Christie. His effusive embrace of President Obama in the wake of Sandy has squandered some of his goodwill among conservatives; it certainly makes him persona non grata in the Romney camp. But it burnished the New Jersey governor’s image as a straight shooter and added some bipartisan sheen for a looming re-election campaign, which could shape up as a showdown against superstar Newark mayor Cory Booker. Could it hamper Christie’s chances in a 2016 Republican primary? Sure. But his volcanic personality and moderate inklings made him a tough sell already, as he knew when he took a pass on the race this time around.

Loser: Reporters. Both presidential candidates took standoffish postures with the media, preferring to handpick softball interviews that were unlikely to produce damaging missteps. Romney rarely took questions from print reporters, whom he charged some $1,000 apiece for a seat in a remote filing center to cover his election-night festivities. Obama was little better, sitting down with ESPN, MTV and swing-state TV stations but eschewing day-to-day interaction with his traveling press corps. He also skipped the traditional postelection press conference. In lieu of interaction with the candidates, reporters were forced to settle for mind-numbing spin and operatives who declined to go on the record for even the most banal observations.

Winner: The status quo. Two billion dollars bought America the same President, the same obstructionist House and same sclerotic Senate it had already. The stretch from now until Jan. 1, when the U.S. is scheduled to topple over the so-called fiscal cliff, will be a critical test of whether this divided government can be any less dysfunctional than the last vintage. If it isn’t, the country could face severe consequences, and the 2012 elections may turn out to be critically important after all.

PHOTOS: Last Days on the Road with Obama

223 comments
SteveSchmitt
SteveSchmitt

BIGGEST WINNERS:  SOCIETAL LEECHES

BIGGEST LOSERS:  TAXPAYERS

T.P.Chia
T.P.Chia

The greatest loser is the WHITE ESTABLISHMENT.

President Obama was re-elected against the wishes of the majority of white voters.  The ideology, values and policies of the Republican Party were rejected by a coalition of African-Americans, Hispanics, Asian-Americans, moderate whites (male and female) and young voters.  This is the net result of an electoral revolution that has been shaping the American society since early 2000.

The American society has been changing socially, culturally and politically due to demographic transformation. The rise of  the electoral powers of non-white minorities has increasingly threatened the white establishment.  The conservative Republican Party is no longer playing a controlling role in American politics, and is getting weaker and less competitive in facing the Democratic Party's progressive liberalism. 

The non-white minorities and moderate whites will be the masters of a new America, politically speaking.

According to the 2010 sensus, white majority will end in 30 years, and non-white minorities will beccome America's new majority. The decline of the white establishment and Republican Party is inevitable.

carlee
carlee

Lets add three more names to the list of Tuesday night losers.

Ted Nuggent

Kid Rock

Hank Williams Jr

fitty_three
fitty_three

@ahandout:

What if things get better in the next four years?

quietamerican
quietamerican

I would like to urge Ms. Gonzalez to learn how to read and understand it too. Didn't you know that the whole country had seen this video, and rest of the job was completed by idiots like Trump. I honestly believe that you should get professional help and get the negative feelings out of your head.

EvaGonzalez
EvaGonzalez

THE BIGGEST LOSER WAS   OUR USA ! The evidence of voter farm is surfacing !

Obama wrote this biography of himself to promote his first book back in 1991. Again, this was written in 1991 before he was even thought of as a competitive politician. Barack Obama says it himself he was born in Kenya and raised in Hawaii. 

Either he lied (why?) or we are living through one of the truly greatest cover-ups & FRAUD of our time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3fd2qL0JAI&feature=endscreen&NR=1 ------

MrObvious
MrObvious

Loser - the specter of misery to come. Righties that warn us of the coming calamity and future destruction of America for caring about your fellow citizen.

notsacredh
notsacredh

Paul,nnto -"Well if sacred's bets were realized then I'd had him to the list of winners."

.

Pnnto, all monetary bets except one have been paid in full. The lone remaining bet will be paid off when he comes back from vacation. The other two bets have been settled (humilation bets). The friend that had to wear the bra wore it for 4 days and then I released him. The bet with the friend that had to go into the pharmacy and ask for the smallest condoms they made was commuted by me into him having to wear a suit and take his wife to a nice place for dinner. You wouldn't believe the points I scored with his wife when I suggested that as an alternative.

Hollywooddeed
Hollywooddeed

Loser: Low information, miserable, gloom and doom Republicans, who make stuff up to try to make everyone else miserable, too. It's not going to work.

outsider
outsider

This is a very sobering read:

This country is stuck in a hell of its own making that passes for everyday life at a moment when the world, for better and/or worse, is coming unstuck in all sorts of ways.

The United States remains a big, powerful, wealthy country that is slowly hollowing out, breaking down. Meanwhile, on planet Earth, the global economy is up for grabs. Another meltdown is possible, as the European, Chinese, Japanese, and Indian economies all continue to take hits. Power relations have been changing rapidly, from the rise of Brazil in what was once Washington's "backyard" to the Chinese miracle (and the military muscle that goes with it). A largely American system that long helped keep the Greater Middle East, the energy heartlands of the globe, under grim, autocratic control is unraveling with unknown consequences. Above all, from increasingly iceless Arctic waters to ever more extreme weather, rising sea levels, and the acidification of the oceans, this planet is undergoing a remarkably rapid transformation based largely on the release into the atmosphere of carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels.

Other than a few curious Republican comparisons of an American economy under the Democrats to “Greece,” a near obsessive focus on the death of Ambassador J. Christopher Stephens and three other Americans in Libya, and various denunciations of China as a currency manipulator, not a single one of these matters came up in any meaningful way in the election campaign. In other words, election 2012 boiled down to little more than a massive case of Washington-style denial. And don’t for a second think that that’s just an artifact of election year artifice.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-engelhardt/political-gridlock_b_2121688.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

DonQuixotic
DonQuixotic

 Home Depot: Housing Market is Healing

The company did not quantify the impact the storm on sales. Instead it pointed to what it said is an important turnaround in housing, which lifted sales 4.6% to $18 billion, and operating earnings up 23% to $1.1 billion. Earnings per share topped forecasts by 4 cents.

The strong results reflect "the start of the path toward the healing of the housing market," said CEO Frank Blake in a statement.

The rebound in home building is something that has already been noted in other reports, including new home sales, which hit a two-year high in September and home construction, which surged to a four-year high.Mortgage rates are near record lows, helped by the Federal Reserve buying mortgages in order to push rates lower.

That, along with an improvement in the labor market, a steady rise in home prices and a decline in foreclosures is helping lead a general recovery in housing.

DonQuixotic
DonQuixotic

 Labor Leaders to Press Obama On Tax Hikes for Wealthy

"Attending the meeting are leaders representing teachers, municipal employees, nurses, truck drivers, grocery store clerks, and factory floor workers, among others."

Or as the GOP call them, lazy good-for-nothing parasites.  America supports you guys, good luck.

curt3rd
curt3rd

All the numbers from the day he took office till know are worse.

curt3rd
curt3rd

The big loser here is the American people.  Keep spinning things any which way you like, but come four years from now we will be worst off. I hople I'm wrong but I'll most likely be saying told you so.

politicaljunkie
politicaljunkie

While Iowa's Republican electorate does not reflect "America's changing character," it's also not reflective of Iowa's electorate as a whole.  Recall that Iowa has gone for the Democrat in 5 of the last 6 presidential elections, and almost did in the sixth. 

outsider
outsider

Winner: the public's political intelligence:

Americans are prepared to blame Congressional Republicans any failure to avert the fiscal cliff, according to a poll on Tuesday.

While 51 percent of Americans don’t expect a deal, Democrats have substantially more faith than Republicans in the ability of President Barack Obama and Congressional Republicans to compromise, according to the Washington Post-Pew Research Center poll. Two-thirds of Republicans aren’t anticipating a deal, and only a quarter expect one. But a plurality of Democrats — 47 percent to 40 percent — expect Obama and the GOP to reach an agreement.

Congressional Republicans are likely to face the blame for any impact: 53 percent of Americans said the GOP would be at fault, compared with 29 percent who said the same of the president. Ten percent said both would be to blame. The gap is even bigger among independent voters, only 23 percent of whom would blame the president.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83773.html#ixzz2C8SUFhoQ

ahandout
ahandout

The Biggest Loser:  Freedom and the First Amendment.  The press is a propaganda machine for socialists.  

6000 government regulations from Obama.

EugenePesikov
EugenePesikov

@SteveSchmitt  Correction: 

Biggest Loser: Steve Schmitt 

Biggest Winner:Steve Schmitt 

how can that be? Obama won the election to serve his second term as president of the USofA which means, whether you like it or not (or care to admit it), everyone other than the SELECT group within the '1%' (mainly those who donated millions of their own wealth) lost. Since I'm pretty sure you're not apart of that 1% (I mean, how else would one explain your commenting on random Times articles), that pretty much means you you too, steve s, are a winner.

Congratulations! I'm sure you had no idea :) 

sandifjm
sandifjm

@carlee Don't forget Clint Eastwood.  And as far as other winners go, let's not forget the empty chair from the RNC.

ahandout
ahandout

@53_3 You gotta plan for that?  Barry is gonna pull a rabbit out of his hat, you'll see. 

sucorazon20101
sucorazon20101

@EvaGonzalez .....congratulations !!!!

You have made a fool of yourself officially !!

We declare you the winner of the coveted title : LOSER !!

ahandout
ahandout

@MrObvious  You can care about your fellow citizens all you want.  I believe in helping people succeed.  Believing that government is the best way to solve all problems is just stupid.  It ignores the facts.  Government programs are full of waste and fraud; they are used for political purposes.  Look at the case of Barry Obama.  In 2008 the media announced a new type of politician, a demi-god in Barrack Obama.  He was not another politician; he was full of hope and change, rainbows and fairey tales.  

Well, it turns out that Barry is just another Chicago thug who ran one of the most negative campaigns ever.  He went from promising to not take private political donations from special interests in 08 (a promise he broke) to spending a billion dollars in 2012.  

The government engineered the calamity of the mortgage crisis, and it will do it again.  You cannot have life without risk.  The government cannot protect you from failure.  It can stop you from success. 

notsacredh
notsacredh

Sue_N, naw, I'm just an opportunist. Besides, I owed her one. The friend that had to wear the bra didn't get off nearly as easy. I WANTED to punish him. I only let him off three days early because his wife pulled a stunt on him that earned him the three day's early reprieve. He was only allowed to take it off to shower. She called ME and told me that she took a few pictures of him wearing the bra while he was asleep. Knowing her, she'll use the pictures to get something she wants.

notsacredh
notsacredh

Piacevole, I was in such a good mood after the election that I was was going to release him from the bet anyway. When he asked me to stop in at his house after work I figured he was going to offer me money to let him out of it. His wife is a real sweetheart but Don is like me. Somebody has to die or get married before we'll put on a suit. We all came out winners, plus there's always the next election and other bets.

Piacevole
Piacevole

Ah, sacredh, the benign, the merciful!  That was, indeed, a very good commutation, and I'm sure it really did make points with his wife.

Probably more than a few with him, too.

DonQuixotic
DonQuixotic

@outsider2011 

Republicans do not care, at all, what direction the country is headed in so long as they're the ones at the wheel so they can bilk the ride for all it's worth.

ahandout
ahandout

@DonQuixotic What would you call it irony or idiocy, that PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS are demanding things from president Obama? 

fitty_three
fitty_three

@curt3rd  

"The numbers are awful!" ~ some guy or other, The Hitchhikers' Guide to The Galaxy

MrObvious
MrObvious

@curt3rd 

Except, that ALL those numbers are not worse. They're better.

DonQuixotic
DonQuixotic

@curt3rd 

No they're not.  Unemployment is down, the DOW is up, housing prices are up, the value of bonds are up, the value of our currency is up.  Do you make things up to see if people will believe you, or because you're too lazy to actually inform yourself?

ahandout
ahandout

@curt3rd  The liberals here would have you believe that things are better than 4 years ago.  The real unemployment rate is about 15% and we are 6 trillion dollars further in debt.  The average income has dropped $5000 for the middle class.  Millions unemployed and millions more on food stamps.

outsider
outsider

@curt3rd 

just like you're 4 years worse off since bush?

You're the one spinning buddy. 

DonQuixotic
DonQuixotic

@curt3rd 

Yes just like I'm sure you've been waiting for the past four years to say "I told you so".  Sorry, but things are only getting better no matter how much you want them to get worse so the GOP can have another spin at the wheel.

BluegrassBetty
BluegrassBetty

@outsider2011 It's about time the Congressional Republicans take the blams for gridlock.  The President has been willing to comprimise but those nutjobs in the GOP want it their way or no way.  If we go down, they are the ones to blame.

DonQuixotic
DonQuixotic

@outsider2011 

Yep.  No matter how many times Paul and ahandjob claim that the election was a reflection of people wanting "free stuff", it was one large rebuke of their constant demonizing of Democratic ideals and how the GOP operates through obstructionism.

sandifjm
sandifjm

@ahandout The fact that you're constantly on here amusing everyone with your ill-informed conspiracy theories, and paranoiac fantasies that have no basis in reality, would indicate that the first amendment is very much alive and well. You man now continue ranting.

DonQuixotic
DonQuixotic

@ahandout 

"Freedom and the First Amendment. The press is a propaganda machine for socialists."

Wow, you just contradicted yourself in two sentences.  Good job.  Then again, you don't even know what socialism is so I guess this is to be expected from you.

outsider
outsider

@ahandout 

I'd like to know exactly how freedom and the first amendment has been lost pls. 

MrObvious
MrObvious

@ahandout 

Freedom and the First Amendment

And here you are whining and bitching about the stuff you've lost - every day

6000 government regulations from Obama.

Except there was more under Bush...freedom we can believe in.

bobell
bobell

@Piacevole Am I to understand that sacred has been scoring with another man's wife?

Where do I sign up?

bobell
bobell

@MrObvious @curt3rd Well, to be accurate, it must be admitted that employment in the public sector is down. That's because many state legislatures have been making drastic cuts in the numbers of teachers, firefighters, police, etc.  Almost all these legislatures share one characteristic -- they have Republicans in charge.

Yeah, yeah, tax receipts are down in the states. That's why Obama and the Dems tried to include more funding for pay for these state employees in the stimulus and several proposed bills that the Republican Congress killed.

Plainly it's all Obama's fault.

bobell
bobell

@ahandout @curt3rd Funny how the income for the middle class has dropped while the income of the top one percent has skyrocketed. I wonder how that happened?

ahandout
ahandout

@DonQuixotic @ahandout  When you don't have accurate information or even a half assed desire to find out the truth of what your government is doing, you do not have freedom or a free press.  You have an ignorant populace that is fed propaganda.  Countries like Mexico, China, North Korea, Venezuela all depend on their press to keep their citizens ignorant and oppressed.  

In the US, the population is turning to a government that is more than willing to dole out a meager existence to them in exchange for their vote.  It's similar to the corrupt relationship between public employee labor unions and state assembly politicians.  

ahandout
ahandout

@outsider2011 @ahandout  Economic freedom:  no jobs, no future, the loss of the ability to own a home, a business, burden of debt on citizens born and unborn.  The ability to travel freely due to the high cost of transportation.  

The ability to access truth from our government.

DonQuixotic
DonQuixotic

@outsider2011 @ahandout 

Obama stole them, duh.  But wait, I thought Obama stole our Freedom with Obamacare.  Does that mean he's stolen our freedom twice?  Is that a double negative?  Are we more free now?

MrObvious
MrObvious

@outsider2011

Freedom - some people knows the meaning of it and can quantify it. Others use it like Smurfs. Throw it out as often as possible to avoid complicated nuanced opinions.

ahandout
ahandout

@MrObvious @ahandout  You really think a blog on Time compares with all the MSM, entertainment "news" shows, and all the other pop culture media that constantly bombards the uniformed with their message of progressive liberalism?  There is no press in the US anymore. 

ahandout
ahandout

@Sue_N @ahandout @MrObvious The government intervenes in many ways into ones life.  Do you do you own taxes?  Without tax software?  That's one example of the onerous bureaucracy that big government burdens its citizens with.  All the regulations and laws have an effect that hampers the entrepreneur.

You want a specific example:  Affirmative action.  What the government gives to some, it takes from someone else.

DonQuixotic
DonQuixotic

@outsider2011 @DonQuixotic 

Don't I know it.  I'm only 26; everyday looks more and more depressing, no matter how many gains Democrats make (particularly when they ignore things like climate change in an election year).

ahandout
ahandout

@bobell  Easy, four years of deficit spending that has crashed the dollar.  Four years of extremely high unemployment.  Employers having to cut salaries to stay in business. Remember it's the middle class where many of the unemployed are.

Sue_N
Sue_N

@bobell Also, corporate profits are through the roof, yet they keep laying off workers or cutting their hours.

But, you know, it's the rich folks we have to protect.

DonQuixotic
DonQuixotic

@ahandout @DonQuixotic 

The bitter hostility is at maximum.  Too bad you'll never appreciate how much you don't actually believe in free speech when you support Rupert Murdoch's empire.

Sue_N
Sue_N

@ahandout @PaulDirks @DonQuixotic The fact that our political media sucks has nothing to do with the government. It has to do with lazy reporters who are too afraid of losing their sacred "access" to the players to ask the hard questions.

There is nothing in the First Amendment that guarantess a competent press. If there were, Fox would have been shut down years ago.

ahandout
ahandout

If news and entertainment was about porn 24/7 I'm sure that they would have a large audience.  But, that doesn't mean that it would be good for society and democracy.  

ahandout
ahandout

@PaulDirks @ahandout @DonQuixotic  Freedom and the First Amendment both depend on a press corp that is at least curious enough to ask a few questions, not one that kisses the ass of their hero every chance it gets.  Like I said, if you only have propaganda, then you have ignorant citizens.  That's not great for a democracy. 

MrObvious
MrObvious

@ahandout

Cite you examples? How about you cite how we are encouraging freedom and liberty. Hell, you cannot even possess a Big Gulp in NYC. Tax the rich, share the wealth, the 1%, those are all socialist ideals. Then there is Obamacare, the nationalization of natural resources, the increase in confiscation of wealth...for starters.

First, only morons confuse the govs constitutional ability to tax with our rights before our gov to speak freely. Only Pavlov's puppy believe the hate radio swill that none taxed income somehow equal freedom.

As far as socialism, see taxes. It's what we do to pay for a functional country. If you want to keep 100 percent of your money with 100 percent of pirate like freedom - move to Somalia.

mtngoatjoe
mtngoatjoe

@ahandout @DonQuixotic The Bush tax cuts have concentrated more money with the 1% than any other program in modern history. Do you honestly believe that America will improve if we concentrate MORE money with the 1%? You speak of the President taking your freedom, yet you would lead us down the path of tyranny.

outsider
outsider

@ahandout @DonQuixotic 

No, they aren't - thus proving, once again - you don't have a clue what you're talking about. 

Here's a quick lesson - socialized medicine? That means everyone pays the GOV'T, not insurance companies, and the GOV'T in turn pays for your medical bills. 

It's taken off at source when you're paid, and you don't have a choice. 

What Obamacare does is PENALIZES you if you choose to shift the burden of paying for uninsured to those who had the forethought to purchase insurance in the first place. 

Party of fiscal responsibility my ass - fiscal responsibility would consist of broadening the base so that each person pays less - and making sure everyone participates. 

The role of gov't is not to encourage freedom and liberty - it is to enforce those two things. If your liberty were actually in peril , you'd be locked up for being an idiot and constantly railing against democratically elected officials. 

No big gulp in NY - while the obesity problem gobbles up those same healthcare dollars you're freaking out over (hypocrite) and taxing the wealthy so that they are affected in their every day lives the same way everyone else is - is a GOOD idea. Not a socialist idea. 

Please, just go back to school to learn the differences between capitalism, socialism, Marxism,  facsism, and communism - and stop proving how you are just echoing what you hear on TV

DonQuixotic
DonQuixotic

@ahandout @DonQuixotic 

So you have no examples of how we're becoming a Socialist State besides paying more taxes, when tax rates are at historic lows?  Obamacare isn't a nationalization of healthcare you maroon, it gives more business to privatized insurance companies.  Keep trying, we're still waiting.

PaulDirks
PaulDirks

@ahandout @DonQuixotic The press is a Capitalistic enterprise which is in the business of selling eyeballs to advertisers. If you don't like their product then maybe you need to consider if your actually in favor of Freedom and the First Amendment yourself. It sure doesn't sound like it.

ahandout
ahandout

@DonQuixotic @ahandout  Cite you examples?  How about you cite how we are encouraging freedom and liberty.  Hell, you cannot even possess a Big Gulp in NYC.  Tax the rich, share the wealth, the 1%, those are all socialist ideals.  Then there is Obamacare, the nationalization of natural resources, the increase in confiscation of wealth...for starters. 

DonQuixotic
DonQuixotic

@ahandout @DonQuixotic 

"When you don't have accurate information or even a half assed desire to find out the truth of what your government is doing, you do not have freedom or a free press."

OK, so you approve of what Private Manning did?

"You have an ignorant populace that is fed propaganda. Countries like Mexico, China, North Korea, Venezuela all depend on their press to keep their citizens ignorant and oppressed."

I love this perpetual idea you have that just because the press doesn't regurgitate the hate speech you're so accustomed to on Fox, they're biased and have no right to speak.  So much for your belief in the First Amendment.

Please cite me examples of how our government is turning into a Socialist State, short of "da librul media" meme.  Take your time, by all means.

ahandout
ahandout

@Piacevole  Well, I hate to point this out to you, but your president demagogues and demonizes constantly.  The saintly Obama is just a thug.  He didn't change the tone for the better, he is the most divisive politicians in the country.

ahandout
ahandout

@Sue_N @ahandout @outsider2011  Sue OPEC sets the price per barrel by manipulating the market.  However, not taking advantage of our own resources sends billions of dollars to those countries:  Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iraq.  Then there is the fact that the dollar has collapsed due to federal deficit spending which adds 40% to the cost of a barrel of oil and many other imports.  And Barrack Obama is directly responsible for that. 

I know how "stuff" works Sue.  How come you don't?  Ever take an economic class?  

Piacevole
Piacevole

Dear Mr. Handout. . . speaking of having a lot of time on one's hands, you would certainly seem to qualify.  Now, I'm retired, after having worked all my life, and I'll tell you this: In all the years that Bush II was in office, I did not ever, not ONCE, come even within very long range of saying about him the things that critters like you use for your stock-in-trade.  I didn't do that because whatever I thought of Mr. Bush, he was our President, and I knew I could survive him.   I didn't like Mr. Bush, but it would have been unseemly to say such things about the President of the United States.  You make a huge mistake in thinking that this somehow garners you any agreement, or even the most minimal respect, because anyone who really had self-respect wouldn't say such things about others.

How on earth do you cons think you're ever going to get elected by people for whom you have such contempt?  People just don't like to be dealt with that way, and if you guys keep it up, you'll learn, unavoidably, just what obscurity really is; the Republican party is in real danger of going the way of the Whigs, and the brighter Republicans have tumbled to this fact and are worrying, as well they should.

Sue_N
Sue_N

@ahandout @outsider2011 Wait, you're pissed because you can't afford to travel? How is that Obama's fault?

The price of gas in this country is decided by oil companies and speculators. Your problem is with them, and with the free market.

If you're bitching because of high airline prices, again, your problem is with the free market. The airline industry in this country was deregulated 30 years ago.And as the price of oil has risen, so have airline ticket prices. Those prices also reflect the cost of the ridiculous airline security theater we have in this country.

Seriously, please, learn how stuff works.

ahandout
ahandout

@DonQuixotic @ahandout @outsider2011  You have a job DQ?  You seem to have a awful lot of time on your hands.  Prospects for the future not looking up?  What does your Fearless Leader propose to do?  Raise taxes.  Why?  So that he can continue to mete out a miserable existence to the unemployed.  They are so grateful that they will vote for more.  Kind of a pitiful way to live, don't you think?

outsider
outsider

@ahandout @outsider2011 

How is economic freedom gone? do you use the roads, and live protected by the armed services? Your economic freedom is not in danger. Only your selfish impulse to take everything for yourself is. 

No jobs? Jobs have been growing for the past few months - after all the jobs lost under bush and his policies. 

Burden of debt because of Iraq, tax cuts and not paying for either of the wars - all of which is being reversed now, to alleviate the problem. 

The price of transportation is high for everyone in every country - how has Obama imperiled that? Again, you want roads to travel on, but you don't want to pay for them. 

The ability to access the truth from the gov't isn't imperiled either - you just don't like the truth, as evidenced from your continuing to echo the thoughts and statements from Fox news. 

Which other right wingers are starting to repudiate now. 

DonQuixotic
DonQuixotic

@ahandout @outsider2011 

I hate to break this to you but the economy has been steadily improving for the past four years.  Everything you list has not happened, and there are no economic indicators what-so-ever that give the impression they ever will happen.  What "truth" do you want from our Government?  Classified truth?  Go to wikileaks.

Piacevole
Piacevole

The "special information" about Petraeus is getting to be like yeast dough which hasn't been punched down lately, and is overflowing its bowl. 

It's really amazing how this one thread is unraveling a whole sweater, isn't it?  I really doubt that it's going to have any connection with Benghazi when it's all said and done, but a couple of military careers will never be the same.

TyPollard
TyPollard

@ahandout @TyPollard @PaulDirks @MrObvious 

They still are but you are off topic in your own thread. You were saying the 1st Amendment was a big loser. You demonstrate that you do not understand the 1st Amendment. You embody your Republican party's ignorance and lack of basic reasoning. In addition, news organizations have never been a gospel of truth but you just don't like what you hear so you label it propaganda without refuting any story in particular. How is it that YOU know the truth? Do you have special info about Bengazi or Petraeus?

Piacevole
Piacevole

Why is the mainstream media called the mainstream media?

Because it's the main stream, where the navigation is best because the water is deeper.  Because that's where most of the readers are.  And if that's where most of the readers are, well, in a democracy, what happens?  They and the MSM are mutually reflective and

THEREFORE

Mitt Romney et al., lost this election,  and very possibly several elections to come, due to their obsolete notions and the burgeoning demographics of the electorate: because they were, basically, fishing in a smaller pool, and intend to keep doing that.  With lousy bait, at that.

TyPollard
TyPollard

@PaulDirks @ahandout @MrObvious 

Stunning really. 

MSM are private sector actors expressing their 1st Amendment rights.

Not saying they do a good job but for very different reasons than ahandout thinks.

MrObvious
MrObvious

@ahandout

You really think a blog on Time compares with all the MSM, entertainment "news" shows, and all the other pop culture media that constantly bombards the uniformed with their message of progressive liberalism? There is no press in the US anymore.

The problem is that YOU are BLIND!

There are righties everywhere. Even and Huffpo - always bitching and moaning about their first amendment rights and that the world is coming to an end.

And you're completely blind to that our corporate media is going for the he she said false equivalence and the cute puppies and squirrels and completely detest investigate journalism. And more importantly you're blind because you're pissed that 'your message' didn't get out.

But it did; despite all of medias attempt to drown it in the bathtub. And people don't like what righties are selling.

It's not all that strange that so many tea party fanatics either lost their job or never had a chance to get one. Because Americans don't like fanatics.