Do Vice-Presidential Debates Matter?

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Mike Segar / Jason Reed / REUTERS

Vice President Joe Biden speaking in Charlotte, N.C., Sept 6, 2012, and Republican vice-presidential nominee Paul Ryan, speaking in Tampa, Fla., Aug. 29, 2012, are shown in this combination photo.

On last weekend’s Saturday Night Live Weekend Update, Seth Meyers said that the biggest winner after the first presidential debate was really the viewing public. “Is there anything more exciting than Joe Biden thinking it’s up to him to get the lead back?” he joked. “There’s like a 50% chance he’s going to come out at the next debate with his shirt off.” But while the first presidential debate appears to have given Mitt Romney his first polling lead in a year, there’s a much smaller chance that whatever happens at the vice presidential debate on Thursday will impact the election.

That’s not to say that the eight televised vice presidential debates in American history have been without effect. Take this exchange from 1976, during the first such debate between Republican Bob Dole and Democrat Walter Mondale:

DOLE: [Ford’s pardon of Nixon] is an appropriate topic, I guess, but it’s not a very good issue any more than the war in Vietnam would be or World War II, or World War I, or the war in Korea, all Democrat wars, all in this century. I figured up the other day, if we added up the killed and wounded in Democrat wars in this century, it’d be about 1.6 million Americans – enough to fill the city of Detroit …

MONDALE: Senator Dole has richly earned his reputation as a hatchet man tonight, by implying, and stating, that World War II and the Korean War were Democratic wars. Does he really mean to suggest to the American people that there was a partisan difference over our involvement in the war to fight Nazi Germany? I don’t think any reasonable American would accept that.

In a book on political communication, scholar Richard M. Perloff observes that Dole’s divisive claim and the solid response of Mondale, who would go on to outperform Ronald Reagan in the first presidential debate of 1984, helped propel the Jimmy Carter ticket.

And there are other examples. Researchers Diana Carlin and Peter Bicak posited that Lloyd Bentsen’s performance, including his famous dismissal of Dan Quayle as “no Jack Kennedy” in the 1988 debate, may have actually made Bentsen’s Democratic running mate Michael Dukakis look weak by comparison. And James Stockdale’s bad showing, as Ross Perot’s Independent running mate, made the team appear like a sideshow—and Perot a poor decision-maker–according to focus-group research summarized by University of Richmond professor Mari Boor Tonn for a project on the 1992 debates.

(PHOTOSPolitical Photos of the Week, Sept. 28 – Oct. 4

But vice presidential debates haven’t proven to be deciding factors when the whole race is taken into account. In his 1996 book Do Campaigns Matter?, Thomas Holbrook analyzed the impact of debates from 1984 to 1992 and found that “there is very little evidence that vice presidential debates do much at all to alter the political landscape.” None of the three he examined—George H.W. Bush v. Geraldine Ferraro; Quayle v. Bentsen; and Al Gore v. Quayle v. Stockdale—“produced a substantial aggregate effect.”

In 2008, viewers anticipated Sarah Palin to betray her ignorance or Joe Biden to gaffe it up. But little happened during the debate or in the polls afterward. The Real Clear Politics averages for Obama and McCain were at 49 and 43.3, respectively, on the morning of the vice presidential debate. Five days later, neither average had moved so much as a point. Despite the hype, sometimes debates are just good television. And Thursday’s matchup should, as Meyers notes, at least be entertaining.

63 comments
superlogi
superlogi

Well Katy, you've got about a 50% chance of getting it right.  But, in any case, I'm looking forward to the fellows' debating.  Hopefully, the VP will be using his own stuff in the debate, instead of someone else's.

Sue_N.
Sue_N.

I just want Biden to take his rosary out of his pocket, press the crucifix to Ryan's forehead and see if it burns.

superlogi
superlogi

You know, plagiarism is the highest form of deceit.  You're actually stealing someone else's thoughts and ideas by employing it.  So, if anyone goes to he!!, it will be Joey (five deferment) Biden.

Dan5404
Dan5404

Joe Biden is one of the best debaters in the business, with a wealth of knowledge about every issue gained through many years of experience.   Ryan is a big negative drag on Romney's campaign.  His plans and stances on several issues are very unpopular, especially with women and seniors.   He also liess a lot.     He was called by a reporter this week on the NRA ad that claims Obama is destroying the second amendment.  He admitted that Obama has done nothing to support that lie.  He finally walked out on the interviewer who pinned hin down on other issues he could not answer without damaging the ultra-right positions further.  Biden will do well.

bibleverse1
bibleverse1

Joe Bidens son went to war. None of Romneys or Ryans sons are going to serve in the armed forces. They will gladly send your sons and daughters to death but not their own.

superlogi
superlogi

But, Joey Biden having gotten five deferments (the last for an asthma attack in high school where he was a football standout), didn't serve.  Oh, and I should remind you, your messiah only goes to war by remote control. Oh, I almost forgot, what branch of the military did you serve in?

f_galton
f_galton

Both of Ryan's sons are currently in a top secret special-ops training program.

sacredh
sacredh

If there's any silver lining in Obama's recent decline in the polls, I hope that it makes people realize that we can't get complacent and take anything for granted. Vote November 6th and take a friend to vote.

sacredh
sacredh

"The CNN poll indicates a wide gender gap, with Romney leading by 14 points among men and Obama ahead by 22 points among women voters."

.

It's a bright statistic for Obama. More women than men vote in ohio.

sacredh
sacredh

Anyone that doesn't agree with 3xfire3 is dishonest and a fool. You have to see the world the way he does or else you're not intelligent enough to be taken seriously.

greatsouthernland56
greatsouthernland56

Just one more thing 73yearoldvet, calling me an ignorant fool is fine, whatever, but about 80% of the western world wants Obama back in  office and is truly worried about the Republican extremists getting back into power. 

OzarkGranny
OzarkGranny

Obama won the Noble Peace Prize for God's sakes, not because he actually accomplished anything, but because the world was relieved that the Republican belligerence was over.  That the rest of the world would be treated as partners not as bastard children.  That Africa and the Middle East might have the right to self determination and not be "shaped" as Romney likes say to suit America's agenda.   Here we go again with the neoCONS.  Cons being the operative word. 

73yearoldVet
73yearoldVet

Katy,

All you MSM types claimed that the Presidental debates really didn't matter much.

You were all wrong.

You will be wrong on the VP debate also.

Ryan will shine and Biden bomb.

formerlyjamesm
formerlyjamesm

It'll be entertainment for me.  Beyond that, it's interesting that Biden will be appealing for a second term, but Ryan will be appealing for his future beyond this election.  I reject the jerk Ryan, but I will be interested in how he does.  If he does as well as Romney did, I will bite my nails and fear for our future.  I hope Biden destroys him.

sacredh
sacredh

The only thing I expect is the unexpected. This is just a hunch, but if either Ryan or Biden really stumbles, I think it will be self-inflicted.

bdcstrong1
bdcstrong1

yes they do just ask in this race. Show the contrast in the parties and then let the people decide...

 OK, what is Obama’s plan for the next four years? All we get from the Obama administration are attacks on the Republicans and their plan, where is team Obama’s plan for the way FORWARD. I’ve heard it’s based on reducing the payroll tax for another year and borrow more money to invest in infrastructure along with more borrowed Federal money to put state teachers and police back on the public payrolls. Is that the Democratic plan, more of the same? Obama’s current plan has already increased the national debt by 5 Trillion; Food Stamp participation went from 32 to 46 Million; gas prices have doubled and unemployment is still at 7.8%... Sounds like it’s going to be more of the same of the "shovel ready show"… So how's that "Hope and Change" thing working for you!

greatsouthernland56
greatsouthernland56

From here in Australia we watch is awe and disbelief that one or any number of debates could actually sway voters when you know what Romney stands for ( nobody knows ). It beggars belief that about half of America is thinking of voting for him.

Please guys, you are grown-ups, stop scaring us. The rest of the western world thinks you are unbelievably lucky to have Obama as President. Stay the course and help him fix up the toxic mess that he inherited.It's a simplistic comparison I know, but the bush Iraq war probably cost about 1 trillion dollars, Obama's killing of Osama bin laden using Americas superior technology and superb Navy Seals cost how much? Vote back Obama and get your mojo back America.

OzarkGranny
OzarkGranny

I might be moving to Australia if Romney wins.  

sacredh
sacredh

All things must pass. Hopefully, Romney's bump in the polls is one of them.

73yearoldVet
73yearoldVet

Assy,

You are an ignorant fool.

We know what Mitt Romney stands for and he will make a really great president.Here a few facts for your edification.

Why I’m voting for Mitt Romney

Mitt Romney is one of the most highly qualified and experienced individuals to ever run for President.

Put aside all the Obama Campaign negative ads and let’s look at Truth and Facts.

What kind of man is Mitt Romney and why I’m voting for him.

· He attended Harvard Law and Harvard Business Schools concurrently earning advanced degrees in both Law and Business Management and graduating MCL.

· He has been a very successful Chief Executive of several companies and organizations in both the private and public sectors.

· He served for three years as President of the Salt Lake Olympics without pay and turned a probable major failure into a very successful Olympics.

· He served as an Intern in the Michigan Governor's office for 8 years gaining a good deal of experience and knowledge about government operations and management.

· He served as Governor of Massachusetts for 4 years without pay. When he came into office Massachusetts had many financial problems. Again through his leadership and management skills he was able to eliminate a 1.5 billion dollar State debt and at the end of his 4 years the state had a surplus of 2 billion dollars. He accomplished this turn-around while working with a state legislature that was 85% Democrats.

· As an Entrepreneur he started his own company Bain Capital and built it into one of the most successful Venture-Capital Investment Companies in the world. His first major business deal involved investing in a start-up office supply company with one store. That company, called Staples, now has over 2,000 stores and employs over 90,000 people.

· Romney and his company Bain Capital would go on to perform the same kinds of business miracles with companies like Domino's, Sealy, Brookstone, Weather Channel, Burger King, Warner Music Group, Dollarama, Home Depot and many others.

· According to the Wall Street Journal, 78% of the companies that Bain invested in and provided management expertise to became successful while 22% failed.

· The companies that failed were almost all companies that were in major financial trouble before Bain invested in them and tried to turn them into successful companies.

· He served as a Mormon missionary in France for 2 years.

· He served as bishop and stake president for his church for 10 years.

Since Barack Obama cannot run on his disastrous record his campaign has concentrated on demonizing Mitt Romney with half-truths and actual lies. These attempts to marginalize Romney’s extensive Management Expertise, Business, Government, Job Creation and Economic experience appear to be failing.

Our choice is between Mitt Romney, one of the most highly qualified and experienced individuals to ever run for President, and Barack Obama probably the least qualified, most inept, incompetent and least experienced individual to ever be elected President.

Barack Obama is not a bad person. He just doesn’t have the leadership skills, management expertise and experience in economics, business or job creation needed to heal our country. We need someone who has proven Executive Management experience in Business, the Economy, Economics and job creation.

That person is Mitt Romney.The polls are increasingly showing that the American people understand why we need Romney.

Dan5404
Dan5404

We have looked at the facts and Romney has none.  He plans wonderful tax cuts but can't tell us how he will pay for them except vague promises about cutting tax loopholes.  Which ones?  How much will that reduce his 5 trillion dollar plan?   He talks tough against China on trade while they have much more financial leverage than we do.  He also is a big outsourcerof jobs to China.  He talks about using military might to "shape" the  Middle East.  That's a great way to get along in the world.  Whose budget will he use to pay for military action?  Ours is still trying to pay for his party starting two unfunded wars.   Will his sons join up to face death like other Anerican young people?   His policies and that of the GOP platform are totally anti-women and anti-middle class.  Social Security, Medicare and health care in general would be in grave danger under the GOP.  He and Ryan are very dangerous for America's future.  They need to lose, big time.

OzarkGranny
OzarkGranny

Here is the problem with Romney.  Bain owned all these companies: Staples, Burger King, Home Depot, etc ... not a single well paying job.  A job you could raise a family on, a job with health insurance benefits ... not a single one.  Compare that to your generation Mr. 73 yearoldVet. After the war, you got a  job in factory.  Made enough to raise your family, buy a home  AND retire.  Had health care to take care of yourself and your kids.   Maybe you owned your own business: a stationary store, a hardware store, a mom and pop restaurant   You know the kind that kept main street America going.  Those well paying factory jobs, Romney closed down those factories, and put those mom and pops out of business with his discount chains.   No way will I every vote for Romney.  NO WAY!  Romney and the 1% are the problem not the solution.

73yearoldVet
73yearoldVet

Assy,

We know what Mitt Romney stands for and he will make a really great president.

Here a few facts for your edification.

Why I’m voting for Mitt Romney

 

Mitt Romney is one of the most highly qualified and experienced individuals to ever run for President.

 

Put aside all the Obama Campaign negative ads and let’s look at Truth and Facts.

 

What kind of man is Mitt Romney and why I’m voting for him.

 

·       He attended Harvard Law and Harvard Business Schools concurrently earning advanced degrees in both Law and Business Management and graduating MCL.

 

·       He has been a very successful Chief Executive of several companies and organizations in both the private and public sectors.

 

·       He served for three years as President of the Salt Lake Olympics without pay and turned a probable major failure into a very successful Olympics.

 

·       He served as an Intern in the Michigan Governor's office for 8 years gaining a good deal of experience and knowledge about government operations and management.

 

·       He served as Governor of Massachusetts for 4 years without pay. When he came into office Massachusetts had many financial problems. Again through his leadership and management skills he was able to eliminate a 1.5 billion dollar State debt and at the end of his 4 years the state had a surplus of 2 billion dollars. He accomplished this turn-around while working with a state legislature that was 85% Democrats.

 

·       As an Entrepreneur he started his own company Bain Capital and built it into one of the most successful Venture-Capital Investment Companies in the world. His first major business deal involved investing in a start-up office supply company with one store. That company, called Staples, now has over 2,000 stores and employs over 90,000 people.

 

·       Romney and his company Bain Capital would go on to perform the same kinds of business miracles with companies like Domino's, Sealy, Brookstone, Weather Channel, Burger King, Warner Music Group, Dollarama, Home Depot and many others.

 

·       According to the Wall Street Journal, 78% of the companies that Bain invested in and provided management expertise to became successful while 22% failed.

 

·       The companies that failed were almost all companies that were in major financial trouble before Bain invested in them and tried to turn them into successful companies.

 

·       He served as a Mormon missionary in France for 2 years.

 

·       He served as bishop and stake president for his church for 10 years.

 

Since Barack Obama cannot run on his disastrous record his campaign has concentrated on demonizing Mitt Romney with half-truths and actual lies. These attempts to marginalize Romney’s extensive Management Expertise, Business, Government, Job Creation and Economic experience appear to be failing.

 

Our choice is between Mitt Romney, one of the most highly qualified and experienced individuals to ever run for President, and Barack Obama probably the least qualified, most inept, incompetent and least experienced individual to ever be elected President.

 

Barack Obama is not a bad person. He just doesn’t have the leadership skills, management expertise and experience in economics, business or job creation needed to heal our country. We need someone who has proven Executive Management experience in Business, the Economy, Economics and job creation.

 

That person is Mitt Romney.

The polls are increasingly showing that the American people understand why we need Romney.

 

bibleverse1
bibleverse1

The good people of Massachusetts only didnt agree.

Dan5404
Dan5404

He actually wasn't such a good governor.  Democrats controlled the legislature and he was mostly a figurehead taking credit for things they had already decided.  He brags about not raising taxes, but he instead raised oretty much every state fee, which IS a tax increase.  He just didn't want a tax increase showing on his resume because he always wanted to run for president.  He is unfit for the job.

greatsouthernland56
greatsouthernland56

So tell me, if this man is qualified and such great leader why does he keep changing his mind on so many things. Business and running a country are two entirely different things. Reagan, Clinton and Truman were never businessmen and yet were Americas most popular and succesful Presidents. Nobody seems to know what he stands for. His utterly insane trickle down/ make the rich richer economics (if he does believe it) is the most discredited concept in current political reality.

Truth and facts? like I politely suggested, give Fox/ Rush limbaugh and his like the flick, clearly these people hate America.

I suggest, that one day Romney said to his family, I want to be president. Yeah dad you'd be great. Thats it. He wants to be the president. He hasn't yet figured out what he will bring to the table.

God save us all.

73yearoldVet
73yearoldVet

Assy,

We know what Romney stands for and here a small sample of the reasons he will make a great President.

Why I’m voting for Mitt Romney

 

Mitt Romney is one of the most highly qualified and experienced individuals to ever run for President.

 

Put aside all the Obama Campaign negative ads and let’s look at Truth and Facts.

 

What kind of man is Mitt Romney and why I’m voting for him.

 

·       He attended Harvard Law and Harvard Business Schools concurrently earning advanced degrees in both Law and Business Management and graduating Magna Cum Laude.

 

·       He has been a very successful Chief Executive of several companies and organizations in both the private and public sectors.

 

·       He served for three years as President of the Salt Lake Olympics without pay and turned a probable major failure into a very successful Olympics.

 

·       He served as an Intern in the Michigan Governor's office for 8 years gaining a good deal of experience and knowledge about government operations and management.

 

·       He served as Governor of Massachusetts for 4 years without pay. When he came into office Massachusetts had many financial problems. Again through his leadership and management skills he was able to eliminate a $1.5 billion State debt and at the end of his 4 years the state had a surplus of $2 billion. He accomplished this turn-around while working with a state legislature that was 85% Democrats.

 

·       As an Entrepreneur he started his own company Bain Capital and built it into one of the most successful Venture-Capital Investment Companies in the world. His first major business deal involved investing in a start-up office supply company with one store. That company, called Staples, now has over 2,000 stores and employs over 90,000 people.

 

·       Romney and his company Bain Capital would go on to perform the same kinds of business miracles with companies like Domino's, Sealy, Brookstone, Weather Channel, Burger King, Warner Music Group, Dollarama, Home Depot and many others.

 

·       According to the Wall Street Journal, 78% of the companies that Bain invested in and provided management expertise to became successful while 22% failed.

 

·       The companies that failed were almost all companies that were in major financial trouble before Bain invested in them and tried to turn them into successful companies.

 

·       He served as a Mormon missionary in France for 2 years.

 

·       He served as bishop and stake president for his church for 10 years.

 

Since Barack Obama cannot run on his disastrous record his campaign has concentrated on demonizing Mitt Romney with half-truths and actual lies. These attempts to marginalize Romney’s extensive Management Expertise, Business, Government, Job Creation and Economic experience appear to be failing.

 

Our choice is between Mitt Romney, one of the most highly qualified and experienced individuals to ever run for President, and Barack Obama probably the least qualified and least experienced individual to ever be elected President.

 

Barack Obama is not a bad person. He just doesn’t have the leadership skills, management expertise and experience in economics, business or job creation needed to heal our country. We need someone who has proven Executive Management experience in Business, the Economy, Economics and job creation.

 

That person is Mitt Romney.

 

sacredh
sacredh

"Please guys, you are grown-ups, stop scaring us."

.

lol. Stop scaring you? I wish we'd stop scaring ourselves. About half the country wants the other half of us to wear scarlet letters.

Katie K. Mercer
Katie K. Mercer

@mantisdragon91:disqus Vote November 6th and take a friend to vote. Love my job, since I've been bringing in $82h… I sit at home, music playing while I work in front of my new iMac that I got now that I'm making it online…..NDOQESB.Tk

paulejb
paulejb

Diecash1,

Clicked on your link, Die. Got this: About 98,700,000 results (0.23 seconds)

Where did you get your numbers?

Diecash1
Diecash1

Right at the link, PJ. Pretty simple.

Li Wright
Li Wright

To me, none of these debates matter.  It goes back to the 1960 Debate with Kennedy and Nixon, I believe the first one and we've continued until then.  I think the best determiner is the platform.  The candidate's and the party's platform.  And the republicans are just too too extreme, although Mitts is running away from it.  That was his plan.  Start out as a right-wing conservative and move to the center.  I'm not sure why Obama's people didn't see this coming.

sacredh
sacredh

"Do Vice-Presidential Debates Matter?"

.

I think that depends on what we can reasonably expect from them. Can a strong debate performance from Ryan help to continue the slide Obama is seeing in the polls? Can a strong debate performance from Biden slow or even stop the slide? If Biden blows this debate, I think the slide continues and adds to Obama's poll problems. Mitt got a bigger bounce out of the first debate than I expected. It has to be bigger than even the Romney people had reason to hope for.

.

If Ryan does poorly it will at least deflect some of the talk away from Obama until Barack's next debate with Mitt. If Ryan comes across as a scold, he's going to get quite a bit of bad press. I don't expect that though. What I wonder is if the Romney camp is prepping him to be cautious and to play it safe. "Do no harm" seems like a winning play in my book.

ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®©
ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®©

It won't matter, sacredh.

Given that the right-wing Republican party is committed to cutting the social safety net, as is the right-wing Democratic party.

Given that the right-wing Republican party is committed to blowing up foreigners for corporate profits, as is the right-wing Democratic party.

Given that the right-wing Republican party is committed to shredding the Constitution in the name of the "War on Terror", as is the right-wing Democratic

party.

Given that the right-wing Republican party is committed to protecting and enriching the banksters who destroyed the economy, as is the right-wing

Democratic

party.

We've already established what is going on here.  Now we're just haggling about the price.

We're all going to lose.  Again.

~

sacredh
sacredh

I'm not all that pessimistic. As the first debate clearly showed, a strong performance can swing the polls. Obama turned inwhat was probably his worst debate ever. Romney turned in his best by far. I really don't expect to see either on the 16th. I've watched the pendulum swing for decades. It gets to the point where one side says it can't get any worse and then it swings the other way. I don't see any reason why history isn't going to repeat itself again.

.

We all say that "this time" it's different. It really isn't in any absolute way. I still think Obama will pull this election out, but if he doesn't, then the republicans will over-reach again and then they'll get their clocks cleaned in the 2014 midterms when many more republican seats will be up for grabs in the senate. it will seem like a long two years, but it will pass.

jmac
jmac

sacredh, that wasn't his worst debate ever.  His worst debate was when the commentator finally hit him with hard questions in the primary with Hillary and Edwards after SNL made fun of the press coddling him and he curled up on the stage in a ball.  Hillary had been pummeled  for 20 debates and took it like a man.  Obama melted.  On stage.  Then he told a reporter, "I guess I should have known I wouldn't be treated like the other candidates."  Clearly implying it was racist.   

He went on to be handed the Democratic nomination and beat McCain - a moderate and a beloved war hero/prisoner of war.    

Ivy_B
Ivy_B

However, if Obama doesn't win, the SCOTUS will have more super right wingers which will destroy the country beyond my lifetime.

sacredh
sacredh

La_Randy, it may be an outlier, but the trend has been for Romney since the debate.I'n not going to give it much concern until after the next debate. If Obama blows the next debate, then I might start worrying. I'm surprised how much difference the first debate did make. I'm extremely doubtful that Romney is going to do as well next time.

.

What I do think is funny is how much disdain the rightwing had for the polls when Obama was safely ahead. They said they were nonsense but now that they're swinging Mitt's way, they're dead on. That's riduculous. The polls are what they are. The ones that leaned republican before the swing still lean republican and the ones that leaned democratic before the debate still show the same bias.

.

If they swing back toward Obama, they'll go right back to claiming that they don't mean anything. They won't mean anything to them or be honest until they say that Romney has the lead.

La_Randy
La_Randy

The Pew poll may be an outlier. The republican meme has been to equate this with a mandate for Romney. Doubtful.

Jen Canfield
Jen Canfield

I really hope Joe Biden talks about Paul Ryan's stance and previous remarks on women's rights. He has said some terrifying things. And as a women he scares me. Granted I'm a die hard liberal, but I think if you're a woman living in the 21st century you would have to be NUTS to vote for Romeny/Ryan. GTFO out of my uterus. 

http://thinkprogress.org/healt...

paulejb
paulejb

Jen Canfield,

We would be happy to GTFO of your uterous, Jen, but you keep insisting we pay for your birth control.

Dan5404
Dan5404

Perhaps you people that want to control women can all get together with your billionaire PAC money friends and patriotic spirit and build and volunteer to work in orphanages for all the children resulting from lack of means and education about their own bodies.   That would solve all the problems and put billionaire money to a better use than trying to buy the American free election system and perpetuate their massive profits.

ProfessorPolecat
ProfessorPolecat

Guys like you are exactly why republicans can't get the female vote.

paulejb
paulejb

ProfessorPolecat,

I don't think so, Polecat. I suspect women are more than just their lady bits which is all Democrats seem to think that they are.

OzarkGranny
OzarkGranny

I get it.  Let's have millions more unwanted children on welfare, supported by your tax dollars.  Very consistent with all your other nonsense.  

paulejb
paulejb

OzarkGranny,

You could always say no, Granny. That works every time without fail.

Ivy_B
Ivy_B

Actually, although he loudly supports "life" he doesn't want to support any children on welfare. Out of womb, out of mind.

OzarkGranny
OzarkGranny

We have to pay for your Viagra Paulie. Oh, I forgot, it's a medical condition.

paulejb
paulejb

OzarkGranny,

Who says that you must pay for Viagra? Is it also a mandate under ObamaCare?

mantisdragon91
mantisdragon91

 If we can pay for Viagra for tools like you we can pay for her birth control

filmnoia
filmnoia

Why would the creep even need Viagra ? I doubt that he has a willing partner to share it with.