In the Arena

Facts Are Stupid — or Maybe Stubborn — Things

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It seems Paul Ryan has run into fact-checker hell after his fantastical convention speech on Wednesday night. I suspect that if Republicans have found a holy grail in President Obama’s “You didn’t build it” trope, then Democrats are finding similar succor in Mitt Romney pollster Neil Newhouse’s pronouncement that the campaign “will not let the fact checkers get in the way.”

The question is, How much can you actually get away with? Are you not telling the truth, or merely misleading the public, if you say the President walked away from his deficit-reduction commission — when you served on that commission and walked away from it? This applies to all the other neo-whoppers — the closed General Motors plant, the Medicare cuts that Ryan supported, the work requirement for welfare — that the Congressman attempted to retail on Wednesday.

Certainly, politics allows some hyperbole. But Romney and Ryan seem intent on crashing through previous borderlines. My guess is that the fact checkers will be on high alert when Romney takes the stage on Thursday night.

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erin wolfmann
erin wolfmann

Obama needs to check his own facts. The mainstream media won't report on anything Obama does wrong because they don't have the balls to do so. No one is perfect, but Obama is so far from perfect, or even credible, that he needs to be removed from office. Check on the fact that he buys votes by giving out free phones in poor neighborhoods and then tells them to vote for Obama. I have seen these booths the liberals setup and it is all a ploy to buy votes from people who just want something for free and don't want to work for it. Sad.

Glen Fiddich
Glen Fiddich

 

Am I the only one who has noticed the wing-nut Republikkkraps

have never tried to attack Obama's "character" the way they did with

Clinton? 

 

Then again, their nominee is a member of a white

supremacist polygamous cult that thinks 40 year-old-men marrying 13-year-old

girls is OK. 

 

So it's not a stretch that they would haul up an

actor who’s had a palimony suit and multiple baby-mammas .

 

The look on Ann Romney's face during Eastwood's

speech was PRICELESS. You'd think a drunk old uncle was spoiling her husband’s

funeral.

 

The only thing missing was Sarah Palin, talking

to an end table.

Glen Fiddich
Glen Fiddich

 

Am I the only one who has noticed the wing-nut Republikkkraps

have never tried to attack Obama's "character" the way they did with

Clinton? 

 

Then again, their nominee is a member of a white

supremacist polygamous cult that thinks 40 year-old-men marrying 13-year-old

girls is OK. 

 

So it's not a stretch that they would haul up an

actor who’s had a palimony suit and multiple baby-mammas .

 

The look on Ann Romney's face during Eastwood's

speech was PRICELESS. You'd think a drunk old uncle was spoiling her husband’s

funeral.

 

The only thing missing was Sarah Palin, talking

to an end table.

Glen Fiddich
Glen Fiddich

  Spin

it any way that makes you feel better: the fact is that Eastwood was

the best thing that could have happened to Obama in the GOP orgy of

self-adoration.

Mr. Obama couldn't BUY a gift like that!

Mitt "Don't Let Fact Checking Get In The Way" Romney in the White House? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!

Thanks, Eastwood!

GOBAMA 2012!!!

cpyddub
cpyddub

For the public record, straight from the source:

http://media.gm.com/media/us/e...

"Janesville was placed on standby capacity in May 2009 and will remain in that status."

There goes that narrative. Facts truly are stubborn things.

lysheen
lysheen

Maybe it's on purpose. Let's not forget, Mitt's 2011 taxes are coming to a theater near you soon.

Anything to not talk about himself is a win for Mitt. Private equity is about making money for investors, not contributing to the common wealth. Mitt is a business man who was passionate about making money for himself and his investors. If this meant laying off 1,000 workers and paying himself a million dollar bonus, then the mission was accomplished. To try and pretend private equity is anything else is disingenuous.

And let's not forget he scoffs at American voters and tells them, "2 years of taxes is all you people get".

Better to talk about Paul Ryan's lies than the tax scheming, job killing CEO that is Mitt Romney.

cpyddub
cpyddub

"The common wealth."

And yet you people bristle when referred to as collectivists, seeking to deny others their own achievements, embarrassed by your quoted sentiments that others didn't build that.

lysheen
lysheen

 Yes, "The common wealth". America used to be a functional society people were proud to be part of and contribute to. Now we have people like you who can only whine, "ME, ME, ME, MINE, MINE, MINE".

People like MLK and Gandhi are people whose contributions to "The common wealth" were mammoth. This is the difference between Democrats and Republicans today. We value those individuals who contribute to the greater good. You value people like Donald Trump. We measure success by value added to society. You measure success by your personal bank account.

You and your party DID NOT build this country. You take advantage of it's opportunity, and give back as little as possible. Aren't you proud to be an American?

politathiest
politathiest

anybody bend over to the blog about Rand Paul speech last night ? apparently all true libertarians are mad as hell and not going to vote for Romney anymore . quite interesting though is they are also c Rand Paul as a sellout . 5 to 10 percent at least of the vote going to Gary Johnson ......ouch that could leave a mark ! leave it to the GOP to stir up division within its own party

superlogi
superlogi

Here's a fact dumbass.  President's only create government jobs even though they may take credit for other jobs.  But assuming they do create jobs, how many have been created since Democrats took control of Congress in 2007?  Compare that to when Republicans took control of Congress in Clinton's Presidency.  Furthermore, there never has been a Democrat who didn't take credit for someone else's success.  In fact, even you journalists seem to be taking credit for it since you've gotten them elected.  The fact is, you write.  The government we hire is suppose to coordinate the public's needs.  It's what we hire them for.  We didn't hire them so we could work for them like so many journalists think.  Anyway, sooner or later, we will decide we don't want to work for government and we don't need idiots like you to think for us.  Have a wonderful day.  It may be one of the few you have left.

politathiest
politathiest

funny how when Reagan had a Democratic Congress to deal with , conservatives give all the credit to Reagan . but when Clinton gave and stuck to his guns gettin much of his economic plan implimented , all of the sudden it's not him but the Republican Congress that made everything happen. and it's the Conservatives that often blame the Democrats of rewriting history . .

superlogi
superlogi

You are mistaken.  Even Reagan didn't take credit for creating jobs.  In fact, on many occasions, he stated big government was an adversary to creating big jobs. 

PS  It took Clinton being dragged kicking and screaming to sign Welfare Reform into law three times before he finally signed it into law.  Do you think he pushed to reduce capital gains taxes or go against his base by signing NAFTA into law?  Furthermore, why would a Democrat, any Democrat reduce banking regulations by signing GLBA into law?  Think before you write.  And yes, Democrats do rewrite history as in how Franklin Roosevelt got us out of the Great Depression.

Piper190
Piper190

Let's add to this recent history as well- GDP and job growth has slowed dramatically since the Teabag Takeover of 2010.  Instead of blaming the tepid recovery on Obama, as superlogi has made perfectly clear that he does, the real blame according to logi's own "logic" should be that this slowdown is purely the fault and responsibility of the Republican Congress.

jimletchworth
jimletchworth

..thursday nite fact-checkers be damned!  there will be no facts from mitt...just more of his incessant whining.

rokinsteve
rokinsteve

There's only one reason for these whoppers.  Desperation.  They have done nothing 

for 4 years and have accomplished zero.  So all they have is Big Fat Lies. 

cpyddub
cpyddub

Had they merely done nothing and accomplished zero that would have been preferable to where we are.

It will take some doing climbing out of the active destruction and negative accomplishment of their rendering Detroit on a national, and international, scale.

Paul Dirks
Paul Dirks

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.... 

While GM already planned to close the plan before 2010, the financial collapse that fall moved things up. On Dec. 23, 2008, the plant ceased SUV production, leaving over 1,000 employees out of a job. The Janesville Gazette devoted virtually their entire paper to covering its last dayand a slideshow they produced of its workers saying goodbye to the plant is as wrenching as it gets.

While the vast majority of workers were ousted that day, the plant retained a small number —57 employees — to finish outstanding orders on trucks for Isuzu before the plant shut down entirely. Conservative commentators have cited the smaller operation, which ended in April 2009, as evidence Obama did bear responsibility for its closure, but it was understood to be a temporary operation from the start. Local news coverage made this clear.

cpyddub
cpyddub

You're presenting a, literally, talking points memo as some evidence of verification?

Straight from the horse's mouth:

http://media.gm.com/media/us/e..."Two other GM assembly plants in Spring Hill, Tenn. and Janesville, Wis. were also under consideration to build the future small car. Spring Hill will be placed in standby capacity status in Nov. 2009, as announced earlier this month. The plant could be brought online at some point in the future should GM require additional capacity due to increased market demand. Janesville was placed on standby capacity in May 2009 and will remain in that status."

While it's amusing to see those emotionally invested in Obama circling the wagons, as the inevitability becomes obvious the next few weeks it will get ugly as they turn on him, scapegoating him personally for the repeated failure which is their own shared worldview.

paulejb
paulejb

Joe Klein,

Barack Hussein Obama on the Janesville, Wi GM plant October 2008.

"Reports that the GM plant I visited in Janesville may shut down sooner than expected are a painful reminder of the tough economic times facing working families across this country," Obama said in a statement released by his Wisconsin campaign organization."This news is also a reminder that Washington needs to finally live up to its promise to help our automakers compete in our global economy. As president, I will lead an effort to retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and all across America."

http://www.uppermichiganssourc... A specific promise, Joe. It was a specific lie.

pollardty
pollardty

"lead an effort" is not the same as a specific promise.

paulejb
paulejb

pollardty,

Barack Hussein Obama hasn't lead anything in four years except maybe his golf swing.

pollardty
pollardty

pathetic...oops it's still Thursday.

D_Bob
D_Bob

"to retool plants LIKE the GM facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and all across America."

Again, not a specific promise.

Now, what about all those promises Romney has made. Anyone keeping track?

cpyddub
cpyddub

What the definition of the word "is" is.

How's that Gitmo closing coming along?

D_Bob
D_Bob

Here's a little thought experiment, Paul: one of Romney's main promises is that on 'Day One' he will "repeal" 'Obamacare.'

Now, the truth is, he will not have the power to do that as president.

So, first of all, he's already lying to you before he's even in office, about something that is already obvious to anyone paying attention.

And second, I can already declare his presidency a "failure" because he will not 'carry through' on a signature promise. Because he can't.

paulejb
paulejb

D_Bob,

Like all Obama's promises the carry through is lacking.

pollardty
pollardty

it really is shocking that this is the kind of drivel that they are trying to make hay with.   

So pathetic.

paulejb
paulejb

In the span of 24 hours liberal fact checkers have totally destroyed what little credibility that they may have had,

There is not one fact about the Janesville GM plant that they got right.

1. Obama said in February with government help  the plant would be around for 100 years.

2.  President Obama bailed out his union pals of the UAW with billions in taxpayer dollars.

3. The plant ceased production in 2009 while Obama was in the White House.

4. The plant is still closed.

End of story.

superlogi
superlogi

But, but, but, but.  Are you suggesting Mr. Hope and Change, was nothing more than a prop for a philosophy of government goo, all warm and snuggly until it absorbed everyone?  I'm absolutely horrified you would suggest such a thing.

MrObvious
MrObvious

The interesting part of course is that paulejb was against the bailout and the stimulus and against any type of intervention. Since Paul Ryan pulled a fast one paulejb as a good usefull parrot and tool have to throw the same garbage out over and over to make a worthless point while ignoring the fact that he'd be 100 percent against Obama doing anything about reopening that plant.

One thing you can always trust righties and especially paulejb is that they'll cover every single angle to attack Obama no matter what. Even if it means to contradict anything they say previously.

lysheen
lysheen

 He's a great parrot.

"Paule wanna cracker?"

*SQUAWK* "Barack Hussein...Muslim...

"Good bird"

paulejb
paulejb

MrObvious,

But there was an intervention, Ob. It cost taxpayers billions and rewarded Obama's pals in the UAW. The intervention just never reached Janesville as Obama promised it would if he were president.

"Reports that the GM plant I visited in Janesville may shut down sooner than expected are a painful reminder of the tough economic times facing working families across this country," Obama said in a statement released by his Wisconsin campaign organization."This news is also a reminder that Washington needs to finally live up to its promise to help our automakers compete in our global economy. As president, I will lead an effort to retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and all across America."

http://www.uppermichiganssourc...

MrObvious
MrObvious

paulejb

shorter

You are against all type of interventions, you simply want to attack Obama regardless and you would be livid if Obama tried.

That's you.

Paul Dirks
Paul Dirks

We've known that about paulie for awhile now. What's interesting is that Ryan and Romney are loudly complaining about Obama doing the exact same thing that they'd do under the same circumstances. They're complaining about Obama's conservatism. 

paulejb
paulejb

Paul Dirks,

The only thing that Barack Hussein Obama is interested in conserving is his own job.

D_Bob
D_Bob

Actually Ryan carefully said that the plant is still 'locked up' -- not 'closed.' If demand is sufficient, it is capable of reopening. The plant is not actually 'closed' as in empty, abandoned and/or sold. It is dormant.

Please let's get one thing straight: an unfulfilled promise is not a "lie." It is an unfulfilled promise; and we all recognize that conditions arise over which we have no control that lead promises to be unfulfilled. Otherwise, not only would every president in history be a 'liar,' but every parent who ever lived would be a 'liar' too.

And please show how Obama's words (quote them fully, please) gave a personal guarantee that that particular plant would be open (even you say 'around' -- ??) for 100 years.

paulejb
paulejb

D_Bob,

Janesville remains shuttered and Gitmo remains open. That's just two of Barack Obama's many unfulfilled promises.

lysheen
lysheen

- He saved our country from financial collapse

- Saved the auto industry

- Passed the affordable care act

- Created more jobs in 4 years than Bush did in 8

- Ended the Iraq war

- Killed Bin Laden

- Ran a perfect campaign in Libya that removed Gaddafi and didn't lose 1 American life

And he's just getting warmed up. Truth of the matter is, Obama wins in November, the economy recovers, and Obama goes down in a 2 way tie with Clinton as the greatest president ever.

nflfoghorn
nflfoghorn

It is impossible to top Topper.

paulejb
paulejb

nflfoghorn,

Now you're getting it, foggie!

superlogi
superlogi

Actually, most of us believe an unfulfilled promise is a lie.  It's simply a matter of semantics defined by progressives like yourself.  

D_Bob
D_Bob

Superlogi is an expert conservative marksman: skilled at missing the point, and then declaring whatever he manages to hit to be the target. 

You really can't handle critical thinking, can you? You really didn't get the point of the 'Disneyland' example at all, did you?

As they said of Rick Perry's efforts to put together a sentence, watching you struggle with understanding the point of an example is like watching a chimp fumbling with a locked suitcase.

And your charge that he has not fulfilled 'any' of his promises just goes to show that you are willfully ignoring the promises he has fulfilled.

You could certainly say that he has not fulfilled ALL of his promises, but that would not be as thrilling to say, would it?

How many of Romney's promises do you think that Romney can and will fulfill? Or have you even thought about that?

superlogi
superlogi

D_Bob, the buffoon in the White House has yet to fulfill any of his promises and they had nothing to do with somebody getting into an accident.  They had to do with the lack of his intellectual and experiential capacity to keep them.  On the other, some of them, he obviously had no intention of keeping which brings us back to his mendacity.

Wouldn't know what a chimp opening a suitcase looks like. However, if you want a metaphor for mendacity, the word is Obama.

MrObvious
MrObvious

Then every single politician lies if the can't fulfill everything they say.

It's simply splitting hairs to assume that what Obama said amounted to a promise to do anything.

D_Bob
D_Bob

"Daddy, you said you'd take us to Disneyland this weekend!"

"I'm sorry honey, you know your Mommy was in an accident and is in the hospital, and we can't go."

"You're a liar, Daddy! A liar!"

That pretty well sums up your petulance. 

paulejb
paulejb

"My guess is that the fact checkers will be on high alert when Romney takes the stage on Thursday night."

====================================

My guess is that liberal scribblers and talking heads have already concocted the lies they will tell even before Mitt Romney speaks, much as you did last night, Joe. That riff about "birthers" was quite a stretch even for you, Mr Klein.

MrObvious
MrObvious

It's alright, you haven't found one single fact about your guy you have managed to promptly excuse or ignore.

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

Obama in a campaign speech in 2008 that the Janesville auto plant would not shut down for a hundred years.

That is the promise Obama made. That was the point Ryan made, about yet another Obama broken promise.

What did Libtards hear? "It's Obama's fault"

Unreal

politathiest
politathiest

And the Iraq war was Gona cost $50 billion tops! Seems like every "promise conservs can think of that wasn't completely fillfilled, progressives can think of promises10 times worse the Gop caused. Another example ...they claim Solyndra cost 500 mill.....bushes interior dept heads gave away 10 billion at orgies parties . 100s billions no bid war contracts, trillions lost from financial dehregulatiin. Conservs point out pennies and ignore their "benjamins"......hypocrite

D_Bob
D_Bob

Seriously dude, please give the full quote from Obama here, and explain to me how he was specifically promising to keep that plant open for 100 years.

'Should' is not a promise. You have a very stretchy notion of promises.

How about this one: to "get bin Laden, dead or alive." Now, did Bush fail to fulfill that promise, or did he break it? Or was he "lying?"

An unfulfilled promise is the same as a lie?

rokinsteve
rokinsteve

D_Bob, Paulie is one of the Gee-O-Pee liars that will say anything

and twist any words.  You might as well be replying to a parrot. 

D_Bob
D_Bob

Oh yes, we know Paul. This is for the sake of others who are reading.

paulejb
paulejb

D_Bob,

"And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years."

http://www.cfr.org/us-election...

In Barack Obama's America a hundred years lasts about twelve months.

"Politifact Lies About Paul Ryan and the Janesville GM Plant"

http://mrctv.org/blog/politifa...

D_Bob
D_Bob

I BELIEVE that IF our government is there to support you....this plant will be here for another hundred years."

A statement of BELIEF, especially when it rests on some conditions (the 'IF'), is NOT a PROMISE, NOR is it a 'LIE' when it turns out not to be the case.

Well Paul, at the very least, you have to admit that the plant is still there. And also, as Ryan carefully allowed, it is under lock and key — and the truth is that it is capable of reopening, if the company deems the demand to be sufficient.

So how much of a 'lie' do we have here?