Morning Must Reads: Exile

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apr2563
apr2563

Whenever I look at the moon it reminds me of the moment over four decades ago when I realized that even though we were farther away from earth than two humans had ever been, we were not alone.

Virtually the entire world took that memorable journey with us. I know I am joined by millions of others in mourning the passing of a true American hero and the best pilot I ever knew. My friend Neil took the small step but giant leap that changed the world and will forever be remembered as a landmark moment in human history.

View this image ›In this July 20, 1969 photo, Apollo 11 astronauts Neil Armstrong and Edwin E. "Buzz" Aldrin, the first men to land on the moon, plant the U.S. flag on the lunar surface. Photo was made by a 16mm movie camera inside the lunar module, shooting at one frame per second. Image by Anonymous / AP

I had truly hoped that in 2019, we would be standing together along with our colleague Mike Collins to commemorate the 50th Anniversary of our moon landing. Regrettably, this is not to be. Neil will most certainly be there with us in spirit.

View this image ›Apollo 11 crew: Michael Collins, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin. Via: baynews9.com

On behalf of the Aldrin family, we extend our deepest condolences to Carol and the entire Armstrong family. I will miss my friend Neil as I know our fellow citizens and people around world will miss this foremost aviation and space pioneer.

View this image ›Buzz Aldrin on the moon, photo by Neil Armstrong. Image by NEIL ARMSTRONG / AP

May he Rest in PeaceBUZZ ALDRIN

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LatestFirstGunner + Buzz Aldrin On Neil Armstrong's D... about 15 minutes ago× RIP, Astronaut Armstrong. You belong to the ages now. :-(

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apr2563
apr2563

Thank you Paul that was lovely.  So many questions.  You now have put me officially in tears.  After the horrors of 1968, Armstrong and the other astronauts gave us such a lift and so much hope.

Here is what Buzz Aldrin had to say:

Buzz Aldrin On Neil Armstrong's Death

apr2563
apr2563

Whenever I look at the moon it reminds me of the moment over four decades ago when I realized that even though we were farther away from earth than two humans had ever been, we were not alone.

Virtually the entire world took that memorable journey with us. I know I am joined by millions of others in mourning the passing of a true American hero and the best pilot I ever knew. My friend Neil took the small step but giant leap that changed the world and will forever be remembered as a landmark moment in human history.

View this image ›In this July 20, 1969 photo, Apollo 11 astronauts Neil Armstrong and Edwin E. "Buzz" Aldrin, the first men to land on the moon, plant the U.S. flag on the lunar surface. Photo was made by a 16mm movie camera inside the lunar module, shooting at one frame per second. Image by Anonymous / AP

I had truly hoped that in 2019, we would be standing together along with our colleague Mike Collins to commemorate the 50th Anniversary of our moon landing. Regrettably, this is not to be. Neil will most certainly be there with us in spirit.

View this image ›Apollo 11 crew: Michael Collins, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin. Via: baynews9.com

On behalf of the Aldrin family, we extend our deepest condolences to Carol and the entire Armstrong family. I will miss my friend Neil as I know our fellow citizens and people around world will miss this foremost aviation and space pioneer.

View this image ›Buzz Aldrin on the moon, photo by Neil Armstrong. Image by NEIL ARMSTRONG / AP

May he Rest in PeaceBUZZ ALDRIN

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LatestFirstGunner + Buzz Aldrin On Neil Armstrong's D... about 15 minutes ago× RIP, Astronaut Armstrong. You belong to the ages now. :-(

tonis3a half hour ago

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apr2563
apr2563

Armstrong's family said, "While we mourn the loss of a very good man, we also celebrate his remarkable life and hope that it serves as an example to young people around the world to work hard to make their dreams come true, to be willing to explore and push the limits, and to selflessly serve a cause greater than themselves.

"For those who may ask what they can do to honor Neil, we have a simple request: Honor his example of service, accomplishment and modesty, and the next time you walk outside on a clear night and see the moon smiling down at you, think of Neil Armstrong and give him a wink."

apr2563
apr2563

Neal Armstrong has died.  One small step..One giant leap.  His explorations continue.

MrObvious
MrObvious

Wow

sad day

apr2563
apr2563

Sure is.  If you were watching the day he made that step it was thrilling.  I remember calling my kids into the living room to watch the event.  They were only 5 and 6 but it was a day we could be proud to witness. There had been so much sadness in our country between Vietnam and assassinations. The moon landing was a day for celebraton. So many "government" people steeped in science worked to bring that day to America.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

In 2009, the NYT in a series of articles affirmed that 36 million Americans

relied on food stamps. More than 24 million of them were white, 8

million were African American and 6 million were Hispanic of any race.

This entire wanting "free things" discussion and welfare seems to create

an illusion that in terms of SHEER DOLLARS spent, that the black

community gets more welfare than whites. This is false. Percentage wise,

there are more blacks and Hispanics on welfare. (Hey, do not demonize

the poor) But numbers wise, there are tens of millions more whites on

welfare than blacks. 

In an interesting article (1991), Barbara Ehrenreich in her TIME piece titled, Welfare: A White Secret points out that 61 percent of the people

receiving welfare in the United States are white, yet welfare is

commonly thought of as a program for black people. She asks, "If the

Lakers were 61 percent white and on a winning streak, would we be

calling them a `black team'?"

The author also stated, “So

our confession stands: white folks have been gobbling up the welfare

budget while blaming someone else. But it's worse than that. If we look

at Social Security, which is another form of welfare, although it is

often mistaken for an individual insurance program, then whites are the

ones who are crowding the trough.

We receive almost twice as much per

capita, for an aggregate advantage to our race of 10 billion dollars a year --

much more than the 3.9 billion dollar advantage African Americans gain from

their disproportionate share of welfare. One sad reason: whites live an

average of six years longer than African Americans, meaning that young

black workers help subsidize a huge and growing ‘overclass of white

retirees.’ In this same article she goes on to say “Whites, near poor

and middle class, need help too -- as do the many African Americans,

Hispanics and ‘others’ who do not qualify for aid but need it

nonetheless.”

Yes, blacks make up only 12 percent of the population, so why are they 33 percent of the welfare population? Because,

Ehrenreich says, of a variety of social factors, including the obvious

fact that blacks are more likely than whites to be poor. And

remember, welfare is a program for poor people so it would be peculiar

indeed if blacks were not a disproportionately large part of the welfare

population.

This poverty is the result of many factors, but

surely it is a better explanation for black reliance on welfare than is

any racial stereotype about black "addiction to the dole." But, as

Ehrenreich emphasizes, you would never know that listening to some of

the political rhetoric in this country over the past decade.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11...

 

apr2563
apr2563

The right doesn't use a dog whistle any more, they yell as loud as they can.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

Well, since Obama was elected, quite a number of white folks now think this is a post racial era.  It has been interesting to watch but really sad too.

Paul Dirks
Paul Dirks

One of the interesting things that the folks who insist that 'Jesus said nothing about government" are missing can be summed up in one word: Democracy. In Roman times, the notion that individuals could be accountable for the actions of their government was fairly unthinkable. Now it's a reality. We as Americans are individually accountable for the actions of the government. The decisions to go to war AND to feed the poor flow down into our hands. Our responsibility is to participate.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

I gave liberal and PoliT below a bunch of passages in the Bible that admonishes Christians and directs them to help the poor.

 LiberalLies response was that the passages I provided were from the old testament, as though the Old Testament is not  a part of the Bible???

 For example, Christians pay tithes and that is an Old Testament injunction, they read Psalms too, and that is also an Old Testament prayer. Even, Christ's  coming was prophesied in the Old Testament.

However, Liberalliar and others of his ilk quote "Christianity" to support Romney even though Far Righties have always thought of Mormonism as a cult, and know that the Mormon church helps Mormons and are not very well known for helping the poor all over the world as Christians are.  Yet, when it comes to helping the poor, Liberalliar cites imaginary non Biblical reasons to explain why the poor should not get help from the State.

"The biographies of Jesus depict him repeatedly reaching out to those at the bottom of the social pyramid--poor people, women, Samaritans, lepers, children, prostitutes and tax collectors. Jesus was also eager to accept people who were well-placed, but he made clear that all, regardless of social position, needed to repent. For this reason, he invited the rich young man to sell all of his possessions and give the proceeds to the poor. (Matthew 19:16-30, Luke 18:18-30, Mark 10:17-31)"

The demonizing of the poor is sad and cowardly, and now it is being used as a political tool to fire up the anti-intellectual Republican base. I am Christian,  and I know that defense of the poor and provision of assistance to them by others, and expecting the authorities to AID the poor is a central TENET of the CHRISTIAN FAITH. Well, the old South used the Bible to support slavery, so Liberalliar and others like him, we can be sure are the sort that would willingly have supported such vicious injustices against other men--and claim that Christ told them to do so. He did not!

The Far Righties like liberaliar frantically reject anything that contradicts their racist beliefs about  poverty, and even deny the Bible with regard to this central issue. Well, as Reinhold Niebuhr  stated “Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but

in doubt."

http://blackrepublicanandmywor...

MrObvious
MrObvious

That's an excellent point too. But I'd like to know where in the bible Jesus said don't give unto your government so they can give unto you.

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

Where does it say you should?

MrObvious
MrObvious

Again, Jesus don't mind telling anyone what he think is right and wrong.

You're building your entire case against government based on the fallacy that if Jesus didn't say anything it meant he'd be against anything other then  induviduals showing charity.

And that's just silly.

politathiest
politathiest

Gods original intent for a Jewish "community" summed up nicely, feel free to distribute to other topics!

Leviticus 25:8-50 — Jubilee: Israel’s agricultural economy revolved around a 49-year cycle which ended in the 50th year of Jubilee. At this time, liberty was proclaimed throughout the land. Indentured servants were released, debts were canceled, and land rights were redistributed to their original recipients with every family receiving back their own share in the inheritance of the land that God had given them. “Here, if ever, is the ultimate relativization of private property. On average, each person or family had at least a once-in-a-lifetime chance to start afresh, no matter how irresponsibly they had handled their finances or how far into debt they had fallen” (Craig Blomberg, Neither Poverty nor Riches, 45) and no matter what sort of misfortune or natural disaster had befallen them. As one might imagine, such wide-ranging debt cancellation and land redistribution would have had an enormous leveling effect on class divisions within Israel’s economy. Even when land rights consolidated into the hands of a few, Jubilee decentralized the nation’s wealth on a regular basis, which placed a limit on the amount of debt that one could incur as well as the wealth that one could accumulate over long periods of time. Although the year of Jubilee is no longer applicable in any strict legal sense, this portion of God’s law remains relevant for Christians today because Jesus defined his own gospel ministry according to the socioeconomic priorities of Jubilee (Luke 4:16-21). See Leviticus theme essay Jubilee and Jesus.

Leviticus 25:14-17 — Property rights could only be sold for temporary periods of time because the land ultimately belonged to God (Leviticus 25:23) and was therefore redistributed, family by family, once every 50 years. As the “real landlord,” God held Israel accountable for everything they did with the land. “This is what lies behind the detailed laws in the Torah concerning the use of land, preservation of people’s share in it, justice and compassion in sharing its produce, protection of those who work on it, special provision for those who become poor and have to sell it, and all the other specific economic mechanisms designed to sustain an equitable distribution and enjoyment of the resources God has given to his people” (Christopher Wright, Knowing Jesus through the Old Testament, 225). Likewise, Christians are called to live in conscious recognition of the fact that God owns everything and we are his stewards. This means that if any of our brothers and sisters’ basic needs our not being met, we have the fundamental responsibility to redistribute our own personal resources in reflection of the fact that all our belongings don’t really belong to us but to God, who calls us to use them with equity and love. See Leviticus theme essay Jubilee and Jesus and Numbers theme essay Supporting Ministers and Missionaries.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

On Political Rulers and Poverty:

Many biblical texts call on political

rulers to use their power to deliver the

needy and oppressed (see Psalm 82:3-4,

Proverbs 29:4, Jeremiah 22:2-3, 23:5, Daniel

4:27). Psalm 72 describes the role of the

king in advancing economic justice:

“Mayhe judge your people with righteousness,

and your poor with justice. ... For he delivers

the needy when they call, the poor and

those who have no helper” (Psalm 72:2,

12).

When selfish, powerful people deprive

others of their rightful access to productive

resources, the state must use its power to

intervene. When individuals and institutions

in the community do not or cannot

provide basic necessities for “those who

have no helper,” government has a God given

responsibility to save lives.

politathiest
politathiest

Where does the bible talk about unbriddled capitalism, or democracy or nationalism. Where does Jesus say blessed are the rich GOP.

42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

Love Your Enemies 43 "You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 First, Scripture harshly warns

those who acquire wealth by exploiting the

poor. “You who make iniquitous decrees . . .

that widows may be your spoil, and that you

may make the orphans your prey! What will

you do on the day of punishment?” (Isaiah

10:1-4; see also Isaiah 3:14-15, Amos 2:7,

Micah 2:1-5).

Secondly, God’s anger is also

aroused by people who have plenty, yet

neglect the needy. In Ezekiel 16:46, God

remarks on the destruction of the city of

Sodom: “This was the guilt of your sister

Sodom: she and her daughters had pride,

excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did

not aid the poor and needy” (see also Luke

16:19-31). In God’s eyes, ignoring the needs

of the poorest is as grievous as idolatry and

sexual abominations.

The biblical record demonstrates that

ultimately, God judges societies by how

they treat the people who are most vulnerable.

That is how much God cares for the

poor.

politathiest
politathiest

here's more...and many more after this..

Where is support for hording, where does it say we should support a system of gross consumerism and extreme wealth disparity, where the scripture that promotes the sentiment of "its mine, you can't have any". If we are a Christian nation with a majority of leaders that claim Christianity.... Why is government so despised? Corrupt... Sure....inefficient....can be. Have the corruption and inefficiency costs of all those slacker government workers cost many Trillions as the banking industry and their credit default swaps. I hear no condimnation there, just GOP saying, take away what little esha they have and letem do it again....they promise to behave!

1 Timothy 6:17-19 New International Version (NIV)

17 Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18 Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. 19 In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.

1 Timothy 6:6-11 New International Version (NIV)

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Final Charge to Timothy

11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

The Bible on Government and the poor

If government and other sectors

of society fail to uphold justice, God’s

people are to hold them accountable. The

prophets confronted political leaders who

oppressed the poor and failed to protect

the vulnerable. Isaiah 10:1-2, for example,

warns against rulers who use crooked laws

to “make the orphans your prey” (see

also Jeremiah 5:26-28, 22:13-17, Ezekiel

22:23-30, Micah 7:3).

The prophets also confronted business leaders engaged in

immoral and exploitative practices that

hurt poor families (see Nehemiah 5:1-13,

Jeremiah 22:13, Hosea 12:7-8, Amos 8:4-6,

and Micah 2:1-2, 6:10-12).

JESUS likewise spoke out against respected religious leaders

who kept the letter of the law but neglected

justice and mercy, and who out of greed

would “devour widow’s houses” (Matthew

23:23, Luke 20:46-47). Promoting justice

means protecting the vulnerable from those

who abuse political, economic or religious

power, as well as bringing victims of

injustice to the attention of those with the

power to defend their cause.

politathiest
politathiest

Liblies,

Wrong, wrong, wrong. The gospel is ALL about community. It's not about the individual alone. You just can't give an honest admittal that the first Christian community was communistic in structure as well as sentiment. Not only did Acts describe this as I've listed AGAIN BELOW but Act 2 describes the same thing as well as showing the Holy Spirit enforcing this strucure. Are you Mormon, do you not accept Jesus as part of Godhead (that would make him and Holy spirit on same page)? The disciples and Paul also repeated this sentiment.... Or aren't they to be taken seriously? "bear one another burdens" ...this is plural not singular. Acts 4 is not unclear in this being a community structure. Stephen was put in charge in Acts to "distribute resourses" fairly.....AGAIN...community. I'm sorry if you can't handle Act 2 amp; 4 and mayny, many other scriptures that show this ain't just about you, but as below, there they are. Are you like Jefferson and cut out the parts of the bible you don't like?

Here's a few more....community and sharing. Now were in the NT scriptures do you get approval of supporting a system based on greed. And MULTIPLE, showing community and sharing. It would be great if churches could handle all issues of poverty, but as depression showed, they can't deal with "disribution" and aid on a national level . I'm sorry your Chritianity is so self centered in its approach... But the preponderance of scripture says otherwise!

1 Peter 4:9

Cheerfully share your home with those who need a meal or a place to stay.

Hebrews 13:2

Don't forget to show hospitality to strangers,for some who have done this have entertained angelswithout realizing it

John 13:34-35

So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. Your love for one another will proveto the world that you are my disciples."

Romans 12:9-10

Don't just pretend to love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong. Hold tightly to what is good. Love each other with genuine affection, and take delight in honoring each other.

Philippians 2:4

Don't look out only for your own interests, but take an interest in others, too.

All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

You are as stupid and nuts as Bene. Enjoy each other

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

JESUS likewise spoke out against respected religious leaders

who kept the letter of the law but neglected

justice and mercy, and who out of greed

would “devour widow’s houses” (Matthew

23:23, Luke 20:46-47). Promoting justice

means protecting the vulnerable from those

who abuse political, economic or religious

power, as well as bringing victims of

injustice to the attention of those with the

power to defend their cause.

http://blackrepublicanandmywor...

Steve0T
Steve0T

LOL< says the semi-literate Teabagger scum.

Self-awareness is not really your strong suit, sport. 

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 SteveO, do not waste your emotions on LiberatLiar. He thrives on getting folks aggravated. Do not take him seriously. He is a FarRight old dude who has certain sexual preferences that he believes he cannot give vent to, because of his religion or whatever else. So, he is totally frustrated. He is just the local clown here. 

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

Ob'd says:

No he wouldn't. Jesus would not in any way shape and form care if a government took care of their own citizens. His entire life and story was to heal the sick, clothe the naked and feed the hungry. It would be idiotic to think that Jesus would object to a government doing that any more than he would a induvidual. Where do you get your drivel from? Have you ever read the bible?

And considering that he would find it very hard for anyone to follow in his footstep that didn't first give all is worldly belongings away, he'd find your statement fully perplexing.

His distain for hording money and possessions is clear throughout the new testament. Only righties seems to have skipped over that part and made religion into a money hording prospect.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please show in the Bible in Christ's own words that he said he "didn't care in any shape or form if a government took care of their own citizens".  

His entire gospels were for the individual.  How the individual should emulate his example.  He did not "command" that you should give all you have or any part of what you have to anyone.  He only ASKED that you follow his example. His example of CHARITY and good will towards others.  No social justice, no green jobs, no idols  or other GODs before him.  

He "called" upon those disciples to follow him.  To be his shepherds in the new religion we know today as Christianity.  A tax collector, a rich man (Treasurer or Banker), and fishermen.  As we know the occupations of some, we don't know the occupations of the others.  

Those he "called" he asked that they give up everything and follow him.  A mathetes.  To learn, and then to spread his gospels, his teachings.  They did and dropped what they were doing instantly and followed the Lamb.  They gave up all their worldly possessions, but they were never "commanded" to do so.  They did so willingly of their own free will.  The same as we are also urged to do, but not "required" or commanded to do as you so erroneously profess.  

Christ didn't set up a commune.  He didn't set up a Kabutz.  He went around the country preaching the gospels to all who would hear.  No communist "community", no socialist Utopia.  He revealed the "Father" and the Holy Spirit so that when you opened your mind and heart you would know and understand.  

It was those who followed him who set up the Churches across the land where today we know Christianity can be found in every corner of the Earth.  

But it is still your choice as an individual even today to be a Christian.  No one, not even God is forcing you to believe.  You can believe in a brass Monkey if you so choose.  But if you believe that any government is going to give you your rights, your freedom, your ability to believe as you choose then you will be sorely disappointed.  If you believe that same government is also going to take care of all your needs, you are also wrong.  For that same government shall take it away from you as fast as it gives.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 

The Bible on Government and the poor

If government and other sectors

of society fail to uphold justice, God’s

people are to hold them accountable. The

prophets confronted political leaders who

oppressed the poor and failed to protect

the vulnerable. Isaiah 10:1-2, for example,

warns against rulers who use crooked laws

to “make the orphans your prey” (see

also Jeremiah 5:26-28, 22:13-17, Ezekiel

22:23-30, Micah 7:3).

The prophets also confronted business leaders engaged in

immoral and exploitative practices that

hurt poor families (see Nehemiah 5:1-13,

Jeremiah 22:13, Hosea 12:7-8, Amos 8:4-6,

and Micah 2:1-2, 6:10-12).

JESUS likewise spoke out against respected religious leaderswho kept the letter of the law but neglectedjustice and mercy, and who out of greedwould “devour widow’s houses” (Matthew23:23, Luke 20:46-47). Promoting justicemeans protecting the vulnerable from thosewho abuse political, economic or religiouspower, as well as bringing victims ofinjustice to the attention of those with thepower to defend their cause.

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

Charity

MrObvious
MrObvious

Christ doesn't say anything t all about government

BINGO

Here is how it works; if Jesus found it wrong he'd also point that out. If you look in the bible Jesus does not shy away from telling right from wrong - if Jesus objected against government what so ever he would also say so. Same with abortion and homosexuality. Yet most of his animus was against money.

When people struck you, turn thy other cheek. In order to follow him or go to heaven, give away your possessions, feed the hungry, clothe the naked and heal the sick.

Give unto Ceasar, he didn't care if government put you in bonds (slavery) asked you to pay taxes etc. If he found taxing objectional then he'd say that too.

Where do you get the notion from that he'd object to a government doing all the things he did himself and found so important?

The three of you are communist and are just trying to justify it by the Bible and Christ which says nothing as I have proven

You're an idiot plain and simple. I don't advocate for the government to own and distribute production. I don't advocate for the government to do everything for everyone including paying everyone.

How about you make your own argument for yourself instead of pretending you know what I stand for since I've never it. Never.

It's pathetic and sad that you continue that kind of fallacy.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

Barbara Ehrenreich in her TIME piece titled, Welfare: A White Secret (12/16/91), stated “So

our confession stands: white folks have been gobbling up the welfare

budget while blaming someone else. But it's worse than that. If we look

at Social Security, which is another form of welfare, although it is

often mistaken for an individual insurance program, then whites are the

ones who are crowding the trough. We receive almost twice as much per

capita, for an aggregate advantage to our race of $10 billion a year --

much more than the $3.9 billion advantage African Americans gain from

their disproportionate share of welfare.

One sad reason: whites live an

average of six years longer than African Americans, meaning that young

black workers help subsidize a huge and growing ‘overclass of white

retirees.’ In this same article she goes on to say “Whites, near poor

and middle class, need help too -- as do the many African Americans,

Hispanics and ‘others’ who do not qualify for aid but need it

nonetheless.”

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

Bullcrap Ob'd. Christ doesn't say anything t all about government. Only the INDIVIDUAL.

The three of you are communist and are just trying to justify it by the Bible and Christ which says nothing as I have proven

MrObvious
MrObvious

Rod

Do you think the word 'charity' explains the lack of the one thing you keep avoiding - that Jesus nor God ever said that a government could not take care of its people?

Sorry, but you cannot find anything in the bible that says that God wants you to starve to death on your own or that the only ones that can help you are induvidual strangers. Charity is a noble and good thing, but Jesus does not object to anyone or anything doing that very noble thing. As far as Jesus was concerned government could do what they pleased.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 Many biblical texts call on political

rulers to use their power to deliver the

needy and oppressed (see Psalm 82:3-4,

Proverbs 29:4, Jeremiah 22:2-3, 23:5, Daniel

4:27). Psalm 72 describes the role of the

king in advancing economic justice: “May

he judge your people with righteousness,

and your poor with justice. ... For he delivers

the needy when they call, the poor and

those who have no helper” (Psalm 72:2,

12).

When selfish, powerful people deprive

others of their rightful access to productive

resources, the state must use its power to

intervene. When individuals and institutions

in the community do not or cannot

provide basic necessities for “those who

have no helper,” government has a Godgiven

responsibility to save lives.

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

Old Testament, not what we discussed so far as Christ is concerned

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 Anyway, on religion,  you are supporting a man whose religion focuses on wealth for his religious sect, and does not promote a compassionate society. A man who believes he is almost a god, and who some in the Mormon religion believe that he is INDEED God. 

I really do not think you have any standing to argue with anyone over religion in politics. You have no moral basis to share the Bible (as you think it is) with anyone. Romney is not a Christian, and believes your Christ was a man delivered through sexual intercourse... so where do your beliefs and his intersect? Are you now Mormon? I have asked you that before. You seem intent on kowtowing to Romney as he ushers in the new Mormon Theocracy as prophesied by the Prophet (Joesph Smith).

I think you are uniquely UNQUALIFIED for this discourse. 

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

I think you are "uniquely" not only unqualified, but prove beyond a shadow of a doubt you are NUTS

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 I do not know where Christ discussed the Government in terms of giving???? Where is it in the Bible??? Liberal--You are extrapolating things that you feel! Please provide Biblical support for your analogies. I am Christian, and a student of the Bible and I absolutely reject your averments, and find the basis for your argument to be unsupported by anything in the Word of God!! 

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

As you and the others have proven you cannot find anywhere the government has the role to "save the poor by taxing or taking their property to spread the wealth to those who do not have anything".

Now go away

MrObvious
MrObvious

Jesus animus against money is pretty darn out there. He definately had nothing good to say about people who horded possessions and riches.

MrObvious
MrObvious

Show me instead where he said that he didn't want to government to care about anyone?

See, your entire post falls on the one thing you do not prove, that there is anywhere in the bible where Jesus shows that he cared about the governments of its time or that he wanted it to stay out of people lives.

But it is still your choice as an individual even today to be a Christian.

You are absolutely correct. But what does that have to do with Jesus objecting to a government caring about people?

Now where did I EVER state that I believe that a government should take care of all your needs? That's a fallacy, you're creating an argument based on something I never stated even once.

politathiest
politathiest

Benev,

The Rock center piece last night was very complimentary to Mormonism. Only touched on few problems. No conserv can complain about anti rigious bias based on that piece. There was one potential bad side effect . They played up Mormons high level in many corporations and how they try and bring up other Mormons behind them. Add to that, showing many Mormans excited about Romney and how they feel part of the main stream and excepted now. I bet in the back of the minds of the most fundamentalists they were thinking something like, "oh my God, with all that power and wealth and renewed enthusiam, they could spread Luke wildfire and end up controli.g the economy, ...we can't let that happen". It will be interesting.g to see what the final fundamentalist turnout will be!

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 Ha! I guess I am just being as objective as I can.  

Hmmmm.... I was also amazed when I saw the rationale adduced by some Mormons about wealth and why the church thinks it is so critical to be rich. Yes, they have a separate Social Safety net for Mormons only, but the Mormon religion might be the only "mainstream" religion that endorses wealth in the manner it does. Wealth for wealth itself is endorsed.

Charity, yes, give to Mormons. But the other "unsaved" non Mormon souls, I see no mention of  helping them in any of the Mormon letters or the books. 

Also, the entire racist nonsense about Black men being cursed is beyond stunning--and even after Slavery, Civil Rights etc. , it was not until the 70's that the Mormon's decided Blacks were not cursed. BUT, it still remains the view, though not discussed openly, among many Mormons even the non fundamentalists. Romney was a highly placed member and bishop of this white Supremacist movement in the Mormon church-- the entire period of racial hatred and anti-Black movement in the Mormon church.

And there is no record or indication that he ever spoke against it.  

I know some devout Mormons that live close by, and until recently, they spoke openly about their beliefs about wealth, the white horse prophesies and Romney, a theocratic State etc.  Now, silence.. *tweet tweet* no such convos..

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

From the Bible on the poor despite the nonsense LiberalLies was spouting:

"If one of your countrymen becomes poor and sells some of his property,

his nearest relative is to come and redeem what his countryman has sold.

. . . If one of your countrymen becomes poor and is unable to support

himself among you, help him as you would an alien or a temporary

resident, so he can continue to live among you. . . . If one of your

countrymen becomes poor among you and sells himself to you, do not make

him work as a slave." Leviticus 25:25, 35, 39

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

If Obama had this sort of politically entwined religious church-- in which the founder advocated for a Theocracy, and ran for President of the USA under that banner, the news cycle would be crazy. But Romney, who is seen as the white horse savior and the god who is to install the Theocracy-- has the temerity to make birther remarks?? 

This is crazy!!

politathiest
politathiest

Benevolent,

I do not want to demonize any religion as that is the job of conservs. Like Christianity at points in time, Mormonism has many skelletons in the closet, racism and polygamy being the most obvious. There is significant differences that puts it outside traditioal Christianity in many respects. Part of there problem is the racism issue wasn't adressed until 1978 and its roots are stuck in their scripture.

Earlier I pointed out that for years, Evangelical fundamentalists demonized and called Mormanism, satanic and thoroughly Unchristian. NOW, radical "christian" fundies like Laura Ingram are accusing "lefties" of digging up dirt on Mormanism. What total two-faced Hypoctacy.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

Yes, I am not demonizing the church either.  The issue I have with the far Right fundamentalist Christians is that for many years, we (the Evangelical) Christians have been told that Mormonism is not Christianity. The Mormons themselves attest to this fact because they believe our religion is incomplete.

Now they know that many Fundamentalist Far Righties are worried about Romney's religion, some of the so called Christian leaders are saying Mormonism is Christianity. The Far Right Christian leadership see Romney as a better option than Obama because they are racist, even though they deny this view, or do not recognize their racial fears in their utterances.

However, in some States, the Evangelical base is not buying the Mormonism is Christianity sell. So the Republican establishment is VIGOROUSLY selling the "Hate Obama" line instead. If they do not sell that hate, they believe many Evangelicals will not vote for Romney, and many would not vote at all.