In the Arena

The Shooter

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I’ve always thought that white supremacists were an incredibly powerful argument against white supremacy.

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kumaran
kumaran

my classmate's step-mother made $13686 past week. she is working on the laptop and bought a $547200 condo. All she did was get lucky and use the information exposed on this web page 

http://www.lazycash49.com

3xfire3
3xfire3

Yes the Left is so non-violent that Bush only received a little over 3,000 death threats a year.

There are crazies on both sides but the Left doesn't like to admit the truth.

53underscore3
53underscore3

I have no problem condemning those who would threaten the president or anyone else.

I'm also waiting for you to condemn this guy without any qualifications.

53underscore3
53underscore3

As expected, 3x isn't going to do it.

It's not unexpected given his sentiments yesterday.

jsfox
jsfox

Umm death threats? Really every President gets thousands of death rights it comes with the territory.

Next would you please tell me what a President getting death threats has do with with white supremacist being proof that maybe we whites are not all that supreme. Far from it.

Hansome
Hansome

It is frightening, not to say macabre, whan a remarkable resemblance Wade Page bears to similar nihilists such as corroded "comedian" Louis CK  amp;  jejune "journalist" Andrew Sullivan. Just look at those faces.

Hollywooddeed
Hollywooddeed

Post a picture of yourself and we'll do a comparison.

brooklin352
brooklin352

just as

Bobby responded I am alarmed that a mom able to profit $6240 in four

weeks on the computer. did you read this site link

http://LazyCash49.com

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

While this was hugely tragic, I am glad it did not start off the unending and useless debate about gun ownership.

If we all had guns then anyone who goes to shoot innocent folks anywhere, like a church or anywhere else, will be sure above all else, that they might kill people, but they will go down themselves in a hail of bullets and pay the ultimate price for their callous acts.

In effect, I am for easing gun ownership laws so that these mass murderers  copycats and other buffoons know that they are on a suicide mission. If you go to kill, you will be killed.

After a while the tales of the sophisticated victims in waiting and some gun totting lunatic becomes quite tiring. We all have our guns. Yes, shoot, you may, but you too will die. I think that will work better than this endless and ineffective debate.

You want to stop gun totting mass murderers. Improve the mental health system and ease gun laws.

http://blackrepublicanandmywor...

 

53underscore3
53underscore3

Why don't you just admit that you hate to see anyone disagree with your "no limits" approach to gun ownership?

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 I think your  observation was quite apparent in my vigorous defense of my position. This is merely a discussion. I have strong views as do you!!!!  However, one correction, I do not hate contrary views. I welcome and question them as is to be expected.  

53underscore3
53underscore3

And this one is a classic:

Since we are not the "sophisticated" gun hating Northerners...

C'mon, now, this isn't a "North vs. South" thing,  Bring this cwap to a halt.

53underscore3
53underscore3

Then question them without things like this:

"You sound a tad off."

"You've obviously never seen a gun discharge."

I have very strong opinions, and I try to base them in fact (I don't consider FOX a source), but unless I am tangling with a troll, I don't insult. 

I actually had this gun control debate with a friend on fb and we didn't have to go this way.  Try it.

jsfox
jsfox

If we all had guns then anyone who goes to shoot innocent folks anywhere, like a church or anywhere else, will be sure above all else, that they might kill people, but they will go down themselves in a hail of bullets and pay the ultimate price for their callous acts.

So says the PR Flack from the NRA.

This line of thinking is beyond dumb.

shepherdwong
shepherdwong

"...they will go down themselves in a hail of bullets..."

Yes, a hail of bullets in a crowded church, what could possibly go wrong? Why don't you say a few Hail Marys and pray for the return of your senses.

53underscore3
53underscore3

Some had guns from what I heard and one of them said he didn't open fire for fear of hitting others.

It's one of those emelentary things about indiscriminate flying fast moving chunks of lead that Mrs. B-V-L seems to think is my agenda alone.

Oh, well...

ARTraveler
ARTraveler

They all should be forced to watch the NCIS episode where one of the agents fires a gun in a cargo container.  Same physics as hitting a golf ball in a tile bathroom except the pieces are moving faster and are far more dangerous.  The "give everyone a gun" group has a fantasy that no one ever shoots the wrong person. The need to talk to real policemen.

 The first police to arrive at Virginia Tech were plain clothes cops. Now you have a shooter(s) in unknown clothing and a bunch of cops in plain clothes, all with guns in their hands.  What's the big plan?-Shoot them all then sort them out later?  That is what will happen and intelligent people know that. Unfortunately, like being in Congress, there is no IQ test for owning a gun.

shepherdwong
shepherdwong

"Before you get a concealed carry license, one of the things you learn, at least here in the South, deals with guns being shot in closed places."

Jebus. Maybe if you southern sh!tk!ckers had more brains than arrogance you wouldn't still be fighting the war you lost 150 years ago. Do you have any idea how often the police miss their close-combat targets? And I'd say they get slightly more training than you and your NRA-hole buddies.

That said, I'll put me and my Hi-Power up against anything you care to bring to my local in-door range, slim.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

You sound a tad off. Of course there are dangers involved if anyone ever discharges a weapon in an enclosed place.  Since we are not the "sophisticated" gun hating Northerners, one would hope that the congregants in that sort of horrible scenario will take cover in whatever way they can.

What option do you propose? We sit there and wait for some mad man to kill us in cold blood, or we take a risk and respond to his act of mindless violence before he kills us all.

Before you get a concealed carry license, one of the things you learn, at least here in the South, deals with guns being shot in closed places. You are trapped with very few options! one of the scenarios is with a shooter in an enclosed place.  This is why owning a gun and not practicing shooting well is a waste. When attacked by a gun man in an enclosed place, your only option as a gun owner/carrier is to defend yourself.

There will be lives lost, the gun man is there to kill as many as he wants to do,  and your shooting WILL endanger lives but if you are a good shot, chances are that you will save lives.  Is the better option to allow the shooter continue to take as many innocent lives as he pleases? To kill you too?

Your pontification and pointing out the obvious dangers of shooting indoors are banal. Since you obviously do not say Hail Mary's... might I suggest that you lay off the rum??? Gun violence is a horrible thing and people who choose to kill others in this way should be met with force.

I painted a real scenario and you came up with obvious dangers and no answer.  What do you propose instead of responding by firing back?  If someone opens fire and starts shooting at people in an enclosed room, I trust you will sit back and await your end at the hands of some lunatic???? 

People will die, the issue is what do you do in such a situation other than play victim and wait to get a bullet in the head??? The answer though not an easy one, or a pleasant one, is the only one. 

http://blackrepublicanandmywor...    

53underscore3
53underscore3

I suggest you try to be less indiscriminate than the flying lead objects whizzing around you claim are my agenda!

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

Oops, did not mean to insult. I was just trying to inject mirth into this awful situation.

53underscore3
53underscore3

Might I suggest that there is too much pre-emptive insulting going on here for me to want to swallow this even if it is narrower in one direction than the other?

Might I also point out that you seem to be bent on insulting anyone who doesn't believe, like you do, that there's no limits to gun ownership?

53underscore3
53underscore3

Nice single issue single perspective presentation.  Short on the evaluation of consequences (I'm a gun owner, too), though.

However, the GOP is decidedly not about improving any social safety network.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 Yes, I was sharing MY views not making a comparative analysis. I will be sure to ask for your preferred outline before I comment, next time.   NOT... :)

AfGuyReturns
AfGuyReturns

Not to shoot for fear of hitting someone, especially if you are a trained shot, and instead wait for your inevitable death at the hands of some madman, is madness itself.

And if you miss and kill someone else, THAT person is just as dead as if the original shooter had been the source of the bullet.

But... YOU'RE alive... and THAT's ALL that counts, isn't it? File the unintended victim under "oh, well sh!t happens".

After all, hitting the wrong person was just an "accident".  Not jail time for you, so no REAL harm. Not anyone YOU knew, so where's the problem?

But it's NOT you, or a friend of yours, and that's ALL that matters. 

How about an alternative... keeping weapons whose sole purpose is to dispense a LOT of rounds in a short time out of circulation so that these nutcases can't hurt as many bystanders?

53underscore3
53underscore3

You described insults as "mirth".  Go look. See your comment:

"Oops, did not mean to insult. I was just trying to inject mirth into this awful situation."

Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2012...

Maybe, Mrs. BVL, you need to start checking yourself.

53underscore3
53underscore3

Mrs. BVL:

Weren't you ever told to identity what you see before you shoot at?

I've been holding back a bit because you're not a typical right winger, but you are certainly plying the stock-in-trade of demonization, and ahem, "mirth" you always seem to use.

What minor stuff I've handed you, you earned the old fashioned way.  I suggest you stop with teh "mirth", ok? This is Swampland...

53underscore3
53underscore3

Thank you for yet another opening bout of mirth/insult. Do you just hate anyone who disagrees with you or what?

I own long guns.  I actually favor gun ownership but with the assault weapons ban.

I have a nephew dead from gun violence, and several others who have been in it, along with a few events I was in. I was offered a handgun by my brother.

I turned it down.

I survived.

What's your point?

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

From that remark 53 underscore, I can only assume that you have never seen a gun discharging ammunition, in real life. Also, any concealed carry holder who sits waiting to be shot in the head, by a trigger happy lunatic, without trying to stop the identified murderer on a rampage, should relinqish his license.

I KNOW it sounds gory and awful but the reality is that a gun man shooting folks in a room, has to be stopped. The potential casualties that could occur as opposed to the disaster that is certainly unfolding is the reason you go to a shooting range to train, at least weekly. Guns kill and ownership of a weapon creates responsibilty. The most important to me, is to know how to handle your guns.

Once a human starts acting like an animal, you are in the jungle. All that stands between you and death at the hands of some maniac, is your reflex, and gun. Call me unrealistic but I doubt that most gun holders, who are experienced in the horrors that gun violence can cause, would do nothing.

The bullets are flying, and in a minute or less, the next noise you hear could be your chest being blown open. So you wait for the cops assuming someone was able to reach them, and hope they show up before the maniac gets to your row or seat??? Wait to die an awful death??

Your objections are theoretical. In reality, it is an awful way to die. Waiting and knowing that some maniac is coming to take your life, in a very painful and senseless way.

There are times for restraint but when cornered, the best response is generally to React and contain the harm. Do your best to stem the number of casaulties and reduce the loss of lives at the hands of a determined copy cat. That mad man wants his name in the news, and since he is acting like an animal in the jungle, the response to him should be rapid and pointed.

Not to shoot for fear of hitting someone, especially if you are a trained shot, and instead wait for your inevitable death at the hands of some madman, is madness itself.

53underscore3
53underscore3

Just pointing out that things happen. You know. Things. P-fizziks and all that with indiscriminate fast moving flying objects?

Ahyuh.

I pretty sure that I'll either survive or I'll chaw my leg off and crawl away on the bloody stump depending on your "blessings"....

Pnnto
Pnnto

"I am glad it did not start off the unending and useless debate about gun ownership."

Followed by multiple paragraphs about gun ownership.

53underscore3
53underscore3

Hell, she's on the warpath too, along with more than a bit of blogwhoring...

53underscore3
53underscore3

You opened with it.

I'll stop if you will, it isn't really necessary.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

@53underscore3:disqus

 Oh boy, you know what. This is atrocious. I have no interest in exchanging silly barbs here or elsewhere. I can give as good as I get, but I comment to relax and discuss-- not to start preparing opening or closing arguments, or hammering anyone with acrid barbs. 

53underscore3
53underscore3

I know.  It's "mirth".  Right?

FYI your blogsite is of considerably higher quality than those that some of your peers put up.  Red, black and white gets tiring to look at.

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

 I am not on any warpath. This is just a discussion online with a bunch of folks with different lives and opinions.  This is hardly a place for war. It is for opinions and conversations and some laughter. War?? Blogwhoring??  You need to relax.

http://blackrepublicanandmywor...

sacredh
sacredh

"I’ve always thought that white supremacists were an incredibly powerful argument against white supremacy."

.

They're ignorant throwbacks. They're also scared beneath that false bravado. The world that they know is quickly leaving them behind and the world their children will inherit isn't the one that they once felt in control of.

pollardty
pollardty

Kevin-   

 

ignorent throwback?   -Check  

false bravado?   -Check  

world leaving him behind?   -Check   

white male control diminishing?   -Check   

sacredh, you are guilty of dogwhistle politics.

sacredh
sacredh

I sure am. Of course if the hounds keep comin' a runnin', I'll whistle with the best (or worst) of them.

Pnnto
Pnnto

Real racism (as opposed to those that use it for their purposes like Dog Whistling hucksters/politicians) is rooted in fear. 

Ohiolib
Ohiolib

Well put, Joe, I will give you that. 

nflfoghorn
nflfoghorn

I get the fact that sometimes you get a random person who snaps as the trade-off for living in a free society.   But was there any way to follow up on warning signs before the fact?

Benevolent Lawyer
Benevolent Lawyer

There are so so many hate groups online. I thought I was participating in a vigorous and interesting discussion on one occasion, only to find out that I was in a room with angry brothers from some Aryan nation faction.

There were some on that site who used such frightening rhetoric, and mortifying racist invective that I was not surprised when the site was shut down.

Those sad madmen. It is a horrible way to live. Spreading and stewing in hate. Truly awful!

Ohiolib
Ohiolib

What warning signs were there, in this case? I'm not following this story all that closely, but I haven't heard that this person had any blatant warning signs.

53underscore3
53underscore3

Membership in a hate group isn't considered a warning sign?

53underscore3
53underscore3

Wasn't meant to be that pointed, Ohiolib, it's more rhetorical.  The warning signs are right there.  And splcenter.org has been following this guy for 10 years!

53underscore3
53underscore3

I don't think that this really is the case here.  He belongs to a group that promotes the ideas that led to him deciding to shoot those people.  This is not one of those "off the wall" occurrences.

forgottenlord
forgottenlord

It's not that the warning signs weren't followed up on - he served 2 months in jail for Criminal Mischief (I'll ignore the DUI as I doubt it is remotely relevant), was demoted and discharged from the military with no ability to re-enlist.  The question I have is what could have been done here?  His worst crime was criminal mischief so on what grounds could he have been committed to a mental institution?