Boost for Obama? Health Reform’s First Insurance Rebates Go Out

  • Share
  • Read Later

Wednesday marked a milestone in the implementation of President Obama’s health reform law as insurance companies quietly doled out $1.1 billion to 12.8 million Americans in rebates.

The Affordable Care Act (ACA) aims to limit the amount of money insurers can collect in profit, while lowering the cost of health care for consumers and maintaining the same standards of coverage. To do this, the Administration created new federal standards for the Medical Loss Ratio, a tool long used by state governments to regulate insurers. As TIME’s Kate Pickert describes in detail, the ACA requires insurers to spend a certain percentage of what consumers pay them (either 80% or 85%, depending on the size of the market in which the insurer operates) on medical claims and quality improvement initiatives. The remainder can be used for administrative costs and profits. If insurers stray from that ratio, they will now have to send out rebates to cover the difference.

So how did the first ACA rebates turn out? According to the Department of Health and Human Services, most insured Americans–66.7 million people–did not get rebates. Those that did were mostly in the individual market or in a small group market. The average rebate per family was $151, with the highest rebate exceeding $800 for families in select markets in Georgia.

The rebates were smaller than some expected, in part because many insurance companies have already changed their practices, slashing administration costs or spending more on quality improvement in anticipation of the new MLR rules going into effect.

“The rebates were certainly smaller than what would have been reported last year,” says Tim Jost, a law professor at Washington and Lee University. “Last year there were no rebates, but the insurers filed supplemental blanks with the National Association Insurance Commission, and those blanks showed that if rebates had been paid it would have been around $1.9 billion dollars.”

Robert Zirkelbach, a spokesman for America’s Health Insurance Plans, a lobbying group, emphasizes that rising health insurance premiums are the result of increasing medical costs, not corporate profits. “Ninety-six percent of the increase in premiums over the past five years was due to an increased spending on health care services,” he says.

Jost agrees that health care services drive up premiums, but insurers still play a part. “The situation we’ve had for two years, three years, is that health care costs have not been going up very fast, and premiums have been going up much faster. Medical Loss Ratio is not a silver bullet, it’s not going to kill health care cost inflation. What it is going to do is, and is doing, is to align premium increases with health care cost increases.”

According to a recent study conducted by the consulting firm Towers-Watson, health care costs have grown 5.9% in the last year, while employees’ share of premiums increased 9.3%.

Future rebates will likely be smaller and doled out to fewer Americans as more insurers comply with the ACA’s MLR rules. But the new round of rebates has arrived at a convenient time for President Obama. While most of the larger provisions of the ACA like the individual mandate won’t kick in until 2014, the rebates are a tangible reminder to 12.8 million Americans that Obama’s signature domestic initiative is doing a little something for them. In an election year, that’s good news for the President.

76 comments
Sort: Newest | Oldest
john
john

 my best

friend's sister makes $84/hr on the computer. She has been fired from

work for eight months but last month her check was $20882 just working

on the computer for a few hours. Read more on this site http://LazyCash49.com

kumaran
kumaran

my friend's sister-in-law makes $89/hour on the internet. She has been fired from work for 8 months but last month her pay check was $12508 just working on the internet for a few hours. Read more on this site 

http://www.lazycash49.com

brooklin352
brooklin352

just as Lois

responded I am blown away that someone can get paid $6095 in 4 weeks on

the internet. have you seen this webpage

http://LazyCash49.com

ChowT
ChowT

Mitt Romney forgotton his written script in London calling the opposition Leader, Mr. Leader.

Yeah, Gopers, it is also the fault of Obama for the Gaffee committed by Mitt Romney.

Blame it all on Obama.

Mr. Leader. hahahahahahah

ChowT
ChowT

They called it leaving the scene of the crime.

Gopers left the scene of the crime committed during year 2000 - 2008.

Now they are blaming it All on Obama.

How convenient.

boltusain
boltusain

what Thomas said I'm impressed that someone can make $8245 in 1 month on the computer. did you read this web site http://LazyCash49.com

boltusain
boltusain

just as

Ernest replied I am blown away that a mom can get paid $5467 in 4 weeks

on the computer. have you seen this site

http://LazyCash49.com

Spahz
Spahz

Hi,

I would like to take this opportunity to respond to Mr. Zirkelbach's comments.

If, " that rising health insurance premiums are the result of increasing

medical costs, not corporate profits" is correct, then how come the

premiums have outpaced the cost by 3.4%?

At a $87 billion in total health care expenditures, that approximates $296M in pure profit.

What does that money fuel?  How is it being used?  Who is doing the

using.  It is my estimation that is being used to undercut the average

American worker.  A good indication of this can be found in the report

from by the consulting firm Towers-Watson.

From the report:

Total rewards is becoming a key driver in the

employee value proposition at companies as

employers use the significant changes to the U.S.

health care system as an opportunity to revisit

their entire reward portfolio.

Translated, we are going to get paid less because our employer has to spend more on healthcare.

How does this jibe with "AHIP advocates for public policies that expand access to affordable

health care coverage to all Americans through a competitive marketplace

that fosters choice, quality and innovation."?

As I see it, the efforts by your organization equate to an attack on American prosperity and growth.

Shame on you and your constituents.  Your organization, through it's

actions, appears to be nothing more then a ruse and a shill for those

who represent and act against the average American worker.

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

"If, " that rising health insurance premiums are the result of increasing medical costs, not corporate profits" is correct, then how come the premiums have outpaced the cost by 3.4%?"

You can thank Nancy Pukelosi, Harry "I lie" Reid, and Barry Soetoro-Obama.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ar...

In this one article you can get the truth as to why your healthcare insurance costs are going to go up, and go up significantly due to ObamaCare.  

Gruber was cited as the Democrat's, Nancy, Harry and Barry's, "go to guy" as to why their fellow Democrats in 2009 should vote "yes" to ObamaCare.  Republicans did not fall for the smoke and mirror routine.

MACV
MACV

Here are a few of the nations with some form of "Universal Health Care"

Norway, New Zealand, Japan, Germany, Belgium, United Kingdom, Kuwait, Sweden, Bahrain, Brunei, Canada, Netherlands, Austria, United Arab Emirates, Finland, Slovenia, Denmark, Luxembourg, France, Australia, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, Cyprus, 

Greece, Spain, South Korea, Iceland, Hong Kong, Singapore, Switzerland, Israel .... 

United States 2014? Not if the Republicans have their way .... what is wrong with Americans?

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

ERenger says:"You have one source that says the CPI for health care services was 4.3% as of June 2012.You have a different source that says Gruber estimates premiums on individual plans will increase by 19% to 30% by 2016."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes, and the point is, if costs are only going up by 4.3% a year, why are premiums going up by 19 - 30% or more since ObamaCare was put into place?

One thing and one thing only has changed, we now have more government regulations and TAXES through ObamaCare that are pushing premiums HIGHER.  

No other reason.  

Obama and the rest of the libloons stated that "costs for healthcare would come down, your healthcare insurance will be cheaper".  Not only did they all LIE about that, they also lied about the taxes we will all pay so they can implement socialized insurance for the millions they wanted to provide it to out of our pockets.  

I am not only paying for my insurance, I am also paying for those who either can't afford it, or are too lazy to go out and get it themselves.

ERenger
ERenger

LL seems to be one of the more math-challenged commenters. Either that or intentionally obtuse.

LL seems to have trouble understanding that if something increases in cost every year for 4 years, then it will cost more after 4 years than it does after only 1 year. 

A 4.3 percent increase per year is exactly an 18.3% increase by 2016. A 6% increase per year is a 26.2% increase by 2016. I've already made the point that the rate of increase in premiums will not exactly track the rate of increase in CPI for health care prices, but if LL thinks they should, then it looks to me like they are estimated to track pretty close:

18.3% to 26.2% by 2016 increase in CPI

versus

19% to 30% by 2016 increase estimated by LL's source

LL keeps saying that the premiums have gone up by 19 - 30% since Obamacare was enacted, but even his own sources do not confirm that, and it is patently untrue. His own source says that one person's estimate is an increase of 19 - 30% by 2016 --- it does not say that these increases have already taken place. They are estimates for the total increase for the next 4 years.

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

Good try ERenger, but unfortunately by the experts and those same experts who were at one time before the passage of ObamaCare touted that the cost of healthcare insurance WOULD DECREASE once ObamaCare was put into place.  

Now, after passage the story has changed.  Now the same pro-ObamaCare "expert" is saying he was WRONG.  That ObamaCare WILL raise the cost of healthcare insurance due SPECIFICALLY to ObamaCare regulations on average 19% to 30%.  

You Sir are simply blind, or stubborn, or stupid.  Take your pick, but it is one of those three choices.  Nothing else makes sense, and nothing else would explain why you continue to LIE.

Gruber before:

Gruber then: Obamacare will “for sure” reduce insurance costs

Before the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act became law, Gruber published a widely-cited analysis, using his Gruber Microsimulation Model, in which he asserted that in 2016, young people would save 13 percent, and older people 31 percent, on their insurance premiums. Gruber’s numbers were used to rebut an October 2009 analysis from PriceWaterhouseCoopers, which projected that non-group (a.k.a. individual-market) premiums would increase by 47 percent over the same period.

Gruber after:

Gruber now: Obamacare will increasepremiums by 19-30 percentAs states began the process of considering whether or not to set up the insurance exchanges mandated by the new health law, several retained Gruber as a consultant. In at least three cases—Wisconsin in August 2011, Minnesota in November 2011, andColorado in January 2012—Gruber reported that premiums in the individual market would increase, not decrease, as a result of Obamacare.In Wisconsin, Gruber reported that people purchasing insurance for themselves on the individual market would see, on average, premium increases of 30 percent by 2016, relative to what would have happened in the absence of Obamacare. In Minnesota, the law would increase premiums by 29 percent over the same period. Colorado was the least worst off, with premiums under the law rising by only 19 percent.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ar...

You are the one who is trying to mix the annual costs of HEALTHCARE which last year was 4.3%, but has been as high per this Mr Roger's article as being "5.9%", just to deliver care.  The 19 to 30% rise is for the PREMIUMS people will pay for their insurance, to pay for those healthcare costs.  

But, I am arguing with another liberal idiot, and nothing I say will make any sense to you as you are purely blinded by your devotion to Barack Hussein Obama.

Hollywooddeed
Hollywooddeed

That premiums were going higher has nothing to do with Obamacare. They have been going higher for years. Blame the for-profit free market that you love so much.

"Not only paying for my insurance, I am also paying, blah, blah, blah...". That's the purpose of the individual mandate, so you won't have to. Personal responsibility and all that. Get it?

ChowT
ChowT

Free enterprise and extreme capitalism are to be blamed.

Extremely greedy Gopers have to be blamed on the mess in healthcare.

Obama is doing a good job caring for the 99%.

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

By raising our healthcare insurance by as much as 19 to 30%, which I believe is a very conservative number?  

They can't even calculate what the rise in premiums will be when they finally start requiring pre-existing conditions into the costs.  They can't evaluate with a weak mandate how many people will simply say, "I'm not required, so I won't buy health insurance until I need it".  

Already this year healthcare insurance costs for some people have increased by as much as 20%.  If that trend continues by 2016 you will be priced out of healthcare insurance,  you simply will not be able to afford it.  Companies will start to drop healthcare insurance as a benefit and pay the tax which will be cheaper.  

This is nothing more than ONE BIG MESS.  One big Obama MESS.

Marry
Marry

my roomate's

half-sister makes $66 every hour on the internet. She has been without a

job for 7 months but last month her paycheck was $18803 just working on

the internet for a few hours. Read more on this site

http://LazyCash49.com

harrietburandt
harrietburandt

From the Congressional Budget Office:

What Is the Impact of Repealing the ACA on the Federal Budget?

Assuming that H.R. 6079 is enacted near the beginning of fiscal year

2013, CBO and JCT estimate that, on balance, the direct spending and

revenue effects of enacting that legislation would cause a net increase

in federal budget deficits of $109 billion over the 2013–2022 period.

Specifically, we estimate that H.R. 6079 would reduce direct spending by

$890 billion and reduce revenues by $1 trillion between 2013 and 2022,

thus adding $109 billion to federal budget deficits over that period.

 

MarineDaughter
MarineDaughter

My husband is self-employed so we have to buy our own health insurance.  My husband and sons are on a separate plan than I am and he recieved a check today for $380.00.  Yea!  But, where is mine from BCBS?  I pay almost $500.00/mo. just for my premium alone and rarely go to the doctor.  Calling them Monday!

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

More ObamaCare bad news for consumers.  

More than half of respondents (53%) plan to increase the percentage that employees contribute to the premiums.

39% plan to increase in-network deductibles.

About one in four employers plans to increase out-of-network deductibles (23%), andout-of-pocket maximums (22%) next year.

http://insurance.about.com/od/...

Obama did state you can keep your doctor and your health insurance plan. What he didn't tell you is YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD IT ANYMORE

ERenger
ERenger

This is nothing new and not attributable to Obamacare --- employers have been passing on increased healthcare costs to employees for a long time in the form of increased premiums and deductibles and out-of-pocket maximums. Do you expect employers to just absorb 100% of increased healthcare costs on their own and not pass any of it on to employees?

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

"But the new round of rebates has arrived at a convenient time for President Obama. While most of the larger provisions of the ACA like the individual mandate won’t kick in until 2014, the rebates are a tangible reminder to 12.8 million Americans that Obama’s signature domestic initiative is doing a little something for them. In an election year, that’s good news for the President."

Let me see, if I have this right you are saying 12.8 million Americans are going to rush right out and vote / thank Barry Soetoro-Obama because they get a rebate which may amount to about 151.00 dollars.  Is that right Mr Rogers?

But, when I do the math, I somehow come up with a very different story.  

In the article you say healthcare costs rose 5.9 percent last year.  That's about right, and what we have been seeing over the last 10+ years according to OECD.  And cost to the policy holder / individual went up by about 9.3 percent on average.  So I am paying over 15 percent more this year, than I did last year, is that right Mr Rogers?

But, I get about 151 dollars back because of some rebate if I am among the 12.8 million happy ObamaCare supporters.  That's fantastic.

But, when I do the math.  I pay 10,000 dollars on average per year for my insurance.  My costs have gone up by 15 percent +, so I paid out 1,500 dollars more this year than I did last year.  What has changed?  Nothing, I just got ObamaCare.  

So you are telling me that if I get back 151 dollars in a rebate, but I paid 1500 dollars more than I should or would have if ObamaCare was not enacted into law, that I will rush right out and give Barry Soetoro-Obama a big kiss for screwing me out of 1351 dollars?

Is that how I understand this Mr Rodgers?

bobell
bobell

Lessee, now.  Health care costs have been rising at the same rate since 2002.  And of course Obama is to blame for all of it -- Right, LL?

If ObamaCare survives and what's supposed to take effect does so, we should see the acceleration slow in a couple of years.  I'd like to see it start happening sooner, but I'm grateful it will happen at all.

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ar...

Young people especially those not eligible for the 26 and under clause in ObamaCare will be especially hit hard with increases to their healthcare insurance costs.

But over all, 19 - 30% is the increase most people are seeing to their premiums since ObamaCare was enacted into law.  

No matter how you slice and dice it, anytime you mandate care and insurance companies are required to provide the coverage the costs will go up.  That's common sense.  

But, believe in whatever you like.  Some people believe in fairytales, unicorns and trolls.

ERenger
ERenger

Whether I have common sense or not has no bearing on the fact that I obviously understand this stuff far better than you do. 

ERenger
ERenger

Again mixing cost of care and cost of coverage...

ERenger
ERenger

"Some people believe in fairytales, unicorns and trolls."

The existence of trolls is proven.

ERenger
ERenger

I think the rate of increase will begin to slow too as more people have access to preventive care and proper maintenance of chronic conditions. 

ERenger
ERenger

"So I am paying over 15 percent more this year, than I did last year, is that right Mr Rogers?"

No, that's not right.

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

Oh that's right, maybe it is 10 percent, whereas before ObamaCare I would have only paid 5.9 percent more.  

10 percent of 10,000 is still a 1,000 dollars more.  1,000 versus 151.00 dollar rebate.  Gee, which one would I choose?  

LOL

Oh and I want to thank Mr Rogers for posting this article. He proves what I said so long ago that ObamaCare WOULD necessarily cause my health insurance to SKYROCKET.

ERenger
ERenger

Premiums have gone up. I never said they haven't. They've gone up for years, and there is little reason to expect them to stop. 

Your lie was not that you claimed premiums have increased --- that is true. Your lie was comparing two totally different things over two completely separate time frames and trying to draw a conclusion that does not follow.

You have one source that says the CPI for health care services was 4.3% as of June 2012.

You have a different source that says Gruber estimates premiums on individual plans will increase by 19% to 30% by 2016.

Those two facts relate to two totally different things, and they cover two totally different time frames and cannot be compared.

So when you say:

"Healthcare costs are only 4.3% in 2011 per CPI. However overall cost of premiums have gone up 17 - 30%." 

You are making a misleading comparison that doesn't mean anything. 

If CPI keeps at 4.3% each year from now until 2016, how much will prices have risen by then? About 18%? If CPI is 6% for 4 years, then how much? Close to 30%? Do you suppose that CPI alone could account for an increase of between 19% and 30% in prices? 

Also, premiums do not necessarily track exactly with prices for services and neither do total costs. It's possible to have the CPI for an item increase and still have the total spent on that item go down, because consumers change the volume of what they purchase based on prices. It's possible to have total costs go up and not have a change in premiums, because there are other factors in an insurance plan that can be adjusted (deductible, copay, coinsurance, out-of-pocket maximum), not just premiums. It's also possible to have your premiums go up but the total you pay for healthcare go down at the same time, because higher premiums pay to cover additional services you had to pay for out of pocket before. 

If you are going to do an analysis of this, you are going to have to get a bit more sophisticated than just cherry-pickeing unrelated figures from miscellaneous blog posts and trying to compare things that don't compare.

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

I guess ERenger is exactly what he is, a lying Obama "truth" teller. In other words ObamaBots will lie no matter what

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

You are wrong and you lie. See, I can do it too. Now show a source that premiums have not gone up.

Thank you

ERenger
ERenger

"Healthcare costs are only 4.3% in 2011 per CPI. However overall cost of premiums have gone up 17 - 30%.

Those are facts, not opinions from the peanut gallery who support Barry Soetoro-Obama"

Actually, no. Those are not facts. The overall costs for insurance premiums have NOT gone up 17% to 30% during the time that healthcare costs have increased by 4.3%. You are making stuff up. It's a fake comparison --- a lie.

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

What part of "Gruber - Increase costs of healthcare insurance premiums by 17 - 30%" is difficult for you to understand, ERenger?

Healthcare costs are only 4.3% in 2011 per CPI. However overall cost of premiums have gone up 17 - 30%.

Those are facts, not opinions from the peanut gallery who support Barry Soetoro-Obama.

lynn580
lynn580

My individual plan went up 14 dollars per month last year and just renewed with an increase of only 5 dollars per month for the coming year. And as a woman a number of preventive services will now be provided with no cost to me.  My insurance company also included a letter which explained that they had adhered to the 80/20 ratio, therefore, I wouldn't be receiving a rebate.

ERenger
ERenger

LL, you are continuing to mix and match numbers that do not apply to eachother. There is a difference between the cost of care and premium costs. Get it straight, or your numbers will continue to be less than worthless. 

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

http://www.standard.net/storie...

Unfortunately, even using Mr Roger's very conservative numbers, the actual increases being seen today are astronomical.  Some cases as much as 17.8 percent as cited in this referenced article.

CPI cost for healthcare for June 2012 actually went down slightly at 4.3 percent, not the 5.9 percent cited by Mr Rogers.  

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ar...

Gruber now: Obamacare will increase premiums by 19-30 percent

I was being kind at only 10 percent.

ERenger
ERenger

"10 percent of 10,000 is still a 1,000 dollars more.  1,000 versus 151.00 dollar rebate.  Gee, which one would I choose?"

Just to be clear, this is where your logic is completely screwed up. The 10% increase does not apply to the 10,000 total cost of care. The 10,000 total cost of care is going up by 5.9%, the same way it has for many years, not 10%. 

Also, the rebate is not supposed to cover the increase in the cost of care, so I'm not sure where you got that idea or the impression that there should be some kind of choice between the rebate and the ongoing increase in healthcare costs. The rebate is extra money in consumers pocket, regardless of the rate of healthcare cost inflation --- they are totally unrelated. 

ERenger
ERenger

The 5.9% increase is the total cost of care per person, and as you pointed out, that is a typical increase for the past decade or more, so it is not attributable to Obamacare. 

The 10% increase is the amount that employers are asking their employees to contribute in premiums --- it's going from about $2,500 per year to about $2,700 per year. Employers are just passing some of the 5.9% increase on to their employees. That is not attributable to Obamacare either. 

Your math doesn't work out, and nothing you've pointed to with regards to increased costs is attributable to Obamacare. 

gysgt213
gysgt213

What are you complaining about again?  You got $151 you don't want because it is some how connected to Obama. And who is Mr. Rogers?

bobell
bobell

Careful,LL  If you damage your eyes you'll have to incur some medical expenses.

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

"What are you complaining about again?  You got $151 you don't want because it is some how connected to Obama. And who is Mr. Rogers?"

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If it is ok with you, I will simply roll my eyes on this one.  

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

"While most of the larger provisions of the ACA like the individual mandate won’t kick in until 2014, the rebates are a tangible reminder to 12.8 million Americans that Obama’s signature domestic initiative is doing a little something for them. In an election year, that’s good news for the President."

12.8 million happy Obama supporters because they got on average 151.00 dollar rebates.  Of course that was after paying nearly 10,000 dollars for the insurance to begin with, right Mr Rogers?

On top of that, they paid on average 5.9 percent more this year over last due to the continued increase in healthcare costs that ObamaCare has done absolutely nothing to stop or at least slow down.  Isn't that right Mr Rogers?  

Then somewhere there is a 4.6 percent increase just in my premium which can only be attributed to the passage and implementation of the ObamaCare regulations since the passage of ObamaCare.  That is over 10 percent increase in just one year, isn't that right Mr Rogers?  

So this year I did not get a raise, zilch.  But, I am paying on average 10 percent more for my healthcare insurance.  But, had ObamaCare not passed or was thrown out by the Supreme Court, my insurance costs would have only increased by the 5.9 percent.  Just because President Obama passed healthcare reform, and the Supreme Court upheld what we all knew was his tax on the middle class in order to provide more people with insurance who didn't have or didn't want healthcare insurance.  

But you say I should be happy, especially if I am among the 12.8 million who get a rebate of about 151.00 dollars.  But on average the cost of a good insurance policy is about 10,000 dollars.  Multiply that by 10 percent and I just paid in 1,000 dollars more.  I am still out 850.o0 dollars this year over last, and who do I have to thank for that increase Mr Rogers?

Who is getting screwed again here Mr Rogers?

LiberalLies2012
LiberalLies2012

"While most of the larger provisions of the ACA like the individual mandate won’t kick in until 2014, the rebates are a tangible reminder to 12.8 million Americans that Obama’s signature domestic initiative is doing a little something for them. In an election year, that’s good news for the President."

Let's see.  12.8 million people get a few bucks back from the enormous amount they paid in anyways.  Add on the 5.9% increase to the cost of providing healthcare, and an added 4% built in due to the passage of ObamaCare and we have for round figures, a 10% increase.  

If I pay on average 10,000 dollars for my healthcare insurance, I just paid an extra 1,000 dollars.  For basically nothing.  Just breathing.  So you have the nerve to say people who have paid an extra 1,000 dollars for their healthcare insurance will be happy to get back maybe 50 bucks?  That they will rush out to the polls to re-elect Obama due to his passage of ObamaCare?  Do I have that right?

RomneyRyan2012
RomneyRyan2012

Nanny State checks to buy votes...how original.

The Obama poodle Time applauds on cue....

Diecash1
Diecash1

Ignorant and derisive commentary from a wing nutter.....how original.  Or not.

Insurance companies being forced to spend premiums on medical expenses....imagine that!  It's truly terrible that they must refund premiums to policy holders if they don't meet these targets too.  Stupid PPACA!  [/snark]

It amazes me how fools like you can be against something like this to which virtually no one objects.  Perhaps you should consider facts, logic and reality before posting such drivel.

bobell
bobell

Diecash1 --Look at the name he posts  under -- Governor Ultrasound for Veep.  That says it all.

Diecash1
Diecash1

True, bobell, very true.  I try to look past screen names as we have a great variety of them here in the Swamp.  BTW, I think McDonnell would be an excellent choice for Mitten's VP.  Plenty of campaign fodder there.