In the Arena

Enter the Mujaheddin

Jerusalem

It is very easy to overplay the news that some Al Qaeda sympathizers have joined the ranks of the Libyan rebels–as Drudge, who leads with it, does this morning–but that doesn’t diminish the irony: the same sort of Islamic extremists who were our “freedom-fighters” against the Russian puppet regime in Afghanistan (and later became the Taliban) are now our “freedom-fighters” against Gaddafi. That’s not to say they’ll form the post-Gaddafi government, but they may demand a role in what comes next–the point is, who knows?

This has been a quiet first day for me in the Holy Land–it’s the Jewish Sabbath–but I’ve got to say, sitting here with rebellions bubbling in two adjacent countries, Syria and Jordan, as well as in Yemen, Bahrain and an incredibly important, but unresolved situation in Egypt, our Libya intervention doesn’t make any more sense here than it did back home. Indeed, if a major Sunni people-power movement develops in Syria, it will be news to rival Tahrir Square–news that would shake both Iran and, especially, Lebanese Hizballah, who count the Assad government as a crucial ally, a movement that could precipitate a major Sunni-Shia confrontation in the region.

I’ll be spending the next few days talking to Israeli and Palestinian politicians to see what they think about all this.

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  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    In Libya, there was a clear geographic line of control, a declared intent & demonstrated ability by the state to attack & kill its almost-entirely-civilian opposition, and will from the international & regional organizations for an intervention. Qaddafi’s forces were bearing down on Benghazi. The international intervention likely saved thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of lives.
    -
    Are you arguing that the US should never act for humanitarian ends? That’s a perfectly defensible view, just wondering where you are on this.
    -
    The best grounds for criticism, that I can see, of the mission so far is the Bush-Sr.-in-Somalia-style lack of consulation with Congress, and the uncertainty of the endgame. As to the latter, I don’t see a Bush-Sr.-in-Iraq-style indefinite NFZ as a terrible result.

  • pintortwo

    Thank you, Mr Klein, for your continued posts form Jerusalem.
    .
    I think it’s entirely possible that this…
    .
    the same sort of Islamic extremists who were our “freedom-fighters” against the Russian puppet regime in Afghanistan (and later became the Taliban) are now our “freedom-fighters” against Gaddafi
    .
    …is the reason for our intervention in Libya, as opposed to humanitarian concerns.
    .
    I argue that we should be wary that the “endgame” is forward bases and maritime position in the Mediterranean Sea from which to exert leverage over N Africa and to flank the uncertain future government of Egypt. In which case events are happening without sufficient debate or national awareness– as with the build-up to the Iraqi invasion.

  • earljr1

    Yes, indeed, the conflict widens and it should be apparent to all this conflagration has all the earmarks of a Muslim civil war. Sunni vs. Shiite and our taking sides will only exacerbate the problem and create further enmity with the west.

    Quoting Winston Churchill:

    “This is one of those cases in which the imagination is baffled by the facts.”

  • bacotawordpress

    Well, all of my expertise in international affairs has been obtained from news magazines, blogs and NPR but … it looks to me like it was important that we make sure that Qaddafi loses power.

    The appeal of Islamic extremism in the Arabic world is that their own governments are broken and they argue that is the fault of the west. Al Qaeda’s “solution” is to attack the west. (That was the appeal of Khomeini as well, that he could stand up against western backed authoritarian governments.)

    The Libyan regime is by far the worst of all. If Qaddafi had survived the defection of even his own ministers, refusing even minimal reforms and butchering people who opposed him, with the US just issuing noble statements about “Democracy”, I’m afraid that the Arab world would conclude that Islamic fundamentalism is the only alternative they have.

    Remember too that Qaddafi is everything we claimed Saddam Hussein was — brutal, totaletarian, involved in terrorist attacks that killed Americans, interfering in the affairs of his neighbors, and at one time actively seeking WMD (though he came clean, that’s true).

    I think it’s also very important that we didn’t just decide to invade Libya to replace their regime. This is a popular uprisin. There are some tribal politics that we probably don’t grasp and there is a fine line between “uprising” and “civil war”, but it’s pretty clear which side we want to win.

    And as to why we intervene in Libya but not, say, Bahrain — Qaddafi is an order of magnitude worse than any other regime in the area. It’s very interesting that this intervention was actually called for by the Arab League. This is a group of western backed authoritarian governments all worried about their own popular protest movements.

    On balance, I think we had more to lose by watching Qaddafi win than by making sure he loses.

  • newfreedomblog

    Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Geraldine Ferraro is dead at 76
    .
    http://www.tmz.com/2011/03/26/geraldine-ferraro-dead-dies-female-vice-president/
    .

  • 53_3

    Just a figure of speech, I’m sure…

  • 53_3

    Better tell your friends in Israel to make a better effort at reaching out.
    .
    They can’t hunker down behind those walls, pound the Palestinians, pass racially motivated laws against their own citizens whose only fault was to be there in ’48 and not be Jewish.
    .
    I’m somewhat sorry for the rather sharp jab in the gut, but you the waves of change are lapping at Israeli shores, and they may not be as coddling of Israeli conduct as they have in the past.
    .
    Just look at Egypt and Turkey…

  • 53_3

    Of course, the alternate solution might be to blast a giant hole in that side of the planet. I’m sure Avigdor the Avenging Angel will want to be the first thumb on the red button.
    .
    Hecks, wont hurt us any, the whole planet might wobble a bit, but who cares about that?

  • Paul-no not that one

    Where the heck is NEO?
    .
    Posts involving Israeli and Palestinian politics are like the Bat Signal for him.

  • apr2563

    Joe, how can I take anyone seriously who still accesses Matt Drudge’s web site?

  • apr2563

    Joe, since you state you are having a slow day, may I suggest you read and respond to your post on Bob Herbert. You might find it interesting.

  • apr2563

    For a change Joe, why not check this site instead or in addition to Drudge and Politico. It will take you out of the Village, beltway, echo chamber.
    .
    http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/
    or
    http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/
    .
    There are many more that might broaden your captive mind.

  • sacredh

    It doesn’t hurt to see what the enemas are up to.

  • paulejb

    Joe Klein,

    “It’s very easy to overplay the news that some Al Qaeda sympathizers have joined the ranks of the Libyan rebels…”
    .
    Really, Joe? Would this be overplaying the news too?
    .
    http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/al-qaeda-snatched-missiles-in-libya/story-e6frfku0-1226028543204#ixzz1Hffm5oRa

  • paulejb

    Joe Klein,

    The good news is that Uncle Sucker wants to arm the Libyan rebels. You can find a link to that on Drudge also.
    .
    Haven’t we been there, done that and gotten Al Qaeda as our reward?

  • paulejb

    Joe Klein,
    .
    More from Drudge.
    .
    This is too cool.
    .
    http://www.drudgereport.com/flash7.html
    .
    A new concept for freedom of the press from the Obama administration.

  • troubador222

    As I understand it, only 1% of the population of Libya is Shia. I really dont see that leading to a protracted civil war over that issue,

  • troubador222

    This is what I found researching the percentage.

    .
    http://www.ahlulbaytportal.com/en.php/page,8594A8797.html?PHPSESSID=8633eb9ab5c49751d812adc7ab2eedd5

    .
    It is a society in which several tribes make up the majority and tribal differences could lead to a civil war. But I dont think a 1% population could sustain the effort of a civil war very long.

  • liberalmeltdown

    Joe Klein, you can use april’s sites and earn as much posting here as she does.

  • 53_3

    How much do you get, liberal?

  • apr2563

    Wow, I wish I was paid for comments here. What a great idea. He really thinks I am a member of the Professional Left.

  • 53_3

    I hate to say it, apr, but 2/3rds went down on liberal in public with a leeeetle sweet talk at 12.1 on ‘God Bless America-Jazeera’.
    .
    I’m stunned. I had no idea they were engaging in blog secks…

  • apr2563

    53_3: Ewwww! Hopefully one of them gets paid for their services.

  • formerlyjames

    liberalmelt’s posts just get weirder and weirder.

  • formerlyjames

    The President will address it all tomorrow night. That is an ominous sign to me. I cringe. We are not out to remove Kadaffi, just to support the rebels. Who are intent on killing him. I get it now. We are not nation building, just supporting those who would do that. I get it now. The likelihood of Muslim fanatics in the mix just makes it all more interesting. Are there antiquities and cultures to blow up? We will find out no doubt.

  • liberalmeltdown

    13.2, “Wow, I wish I was paid for comments here. What a great idea. He really thinks I am a member of the Professional Left.”
    .
    No delusional Libtard would be paid anything.
    .
    Go back and read it again.
    .

  • liberalmeltdown

    Ah the meltdown. It just didn’t stop at the midterm election.
    .
    http://willandersonradio.com/2011/03/the-fallout-from-the-left-over-lybia-continues/
    .

    This morning it comes from the Chicago Tribune’s John Kass. He writes, “He hasn’t been clear on the war at all.

    “Before he ordered the strikes against Gadhafi, he’d argued that the Libyan dictator had to go, that driving him from power was the important thing.

    “Then that argument changed, and Obama and his advisers said we had to save the people of Libya from a bloody civil war. So it became a humanitarian mission. Sort of.

    “Naturally, members of Congress are shrieking, since he attacked without asking their permission. Liberal U.S. Rep. Dennis Kucinich, the Ohio Democrat, brought up a quote from the past:

    ‘The president does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.’

    And who said it? Barack Obama, to The Boston Globe in 2007.”

  • apr2563

    Your right liberalmeltdown, I did miss the irony in your comment.
    Right now I am busy trying to erase the image of you and 2/3rds in flagrante delicto. Ewwww!

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