What’s the Difference Between a “Rebel” and a “Civilian”?

U.N. Security Council resolution 1973 defines the mission in Libya as one to “protect civilians.” But at a White House press briefing yesterday with national security advisor Tom Donilon, one questioner (apparently Chip Reid of CBS), got at the tricky question of just what that means:

Q: …[I]s there a difference between a civilian and a rebel?

MR. DONILON:  Is there a difference between a civilian and rebel?… [T]he efforts of the United States and coalition partners with respect to protecting civilians is against regime military forces.  And that is the absolute crystal-clear instruction from the President to our forces, that there is an effort here to protect civilians.  And I don’t — in Benghazi — well, I’ll just say to protect civilians against regime military forces who are attacking them.  And that’s the focus of the effort; that’s the direction that the forces have from the Commander-in-Chief.

Q    Is there a difference?

MR. DONILON:  Is there a difference between a rebel and a — no, a civilian is a civilian.

Q    But if a rebel is standing in front of Libyan forces, is he to be protected by –

MR. DONILON:  Well, the point, though — I mean, the point is pretty clear, though, is that you have a civilian population under attack by regime forces.  And I’ve tried to be very clear about what the instructions are.  The coalition partners and others under United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 are empowered to use all necessary measures to protect civilians from military attack.

Q    So if a civilian with an AK-47 is facing off against Qaddafi forces, is he protected under 1973 and coalition forces?

MR. DONILON:  Well, but that’s — the focus, the activity of the coalition forces is against the military forces who are attacking civilians.  That’s the activity.  So that’s the best I can do.

Q    So the answer is no, civilians who take up arms against Qaddafi’s forces are not protected under 1973?

MR. DONILON:  Not protected?  No, I don’t — well, the civilians who are protecting themselves from the Qaddafi regime, is that the –

Q    They’re fighting the Qaddafi forces, aren’t they?  Are they –

MR. DONILON:  Is that the question?

Q    — protected by coalition forces in 1973?

Q    Doesn’t that mean you’re taking sides on behalf of a military force fighting the Qaddafi regime?

MR. DONILON:  We’re taking — this is not unclear either in the resolution, which I’ll reach for here, or in terms of the activities of the coalition forces.  The Qaddafi regime was threatening attack and attacking civilians and civilian-populated areas.  Those are the two terms in the Security Council resolution.  They were under threat of attack, and the goal is to take action to protect civilians and civilian-populated areas from attack by the Qaddafi regime.  That’s the –

Q    I didn’t understand — civilians — do you recognize the rebels as civilians?

MR. DONILON:  They are citizens of Libya, and they are civilians.

Q    They are?  They are?  They are civilians?

MR. DONILON:  They’re not military forces under the direction and control of Qaddafi.

Q    But they’re military forces –

MR. DONILON:  Yes, yes –

Q    We keep doing the circle, but let’s –

MR. CARNEY:  Chip, let’s give some other people a chance, okay?

Q    Okay, fine.  But if you can take that question because it hasn’t been answered.

MR. DONILON:  You know, Chip, seriously, I’ve been crystal clear on what the mission is of the coalition forces.  And that is to protect civilians and civilian areas.  You have a circumstance; the circumstance is that you have a city of 700,000 people that are — and other cities in Libya, by the way, that express their view with respect to the Qaddafi regime.  And the Qaddafi regime has chosen as a government, as the military force, as the — well, as a government and a military force to undertake attacks of those citizens and those civilian-populated areas.  That is exactly what was targeted.  And the purpose behind Resolution 1973 was to protect those people.

Now, Benghazi is the center of the opposition in Libya right now.  And indeed, as I said earlier, we’ve been in touch with people in Benghazi today and have seen statements come out of Benghazi today about the fact that these actions that we’ve taken have prevented catastrophe there.  That’s the purpose of the resolution.  These are citizens of Libya who have expressed their view with respect to Qaddafi and his government.

And in response to that, the government — who has control over the violence and force in a country — has chosen with artillery and air assets and other assets including regular military forces to go in and attack those cities and attack those citizens.  And the idea of 1973 in part was to protect those citizens and the civilian population areas from that exercise of violence.

Everyone clear on this point now?

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  • afguy

    Nice question…
    .
    And I haven’t seen “tap dancing” like that in quite a while.

  • nflfoghorn

    This isn’t a question the NSA had to answer. He could’ve said:
    .
    “We’re protecting civilians – those who do not take up arms one way or the other – against the existing regime. Anybody who wants to take up arms is on his/her own, regardless of cause or side, and I can’t address whether 1973 covers them or not in that situation.”
    .
    I sense Reid(?) is either a) exasperated that this administration is as tight-lipped on things as the last one or b) is bucking for Katie’s job whenever she gets ready to be the next Oprah.

  • http://shortplaysaboutrealpeople.wordpress.com Michael Maiello

    I guess I am clear. Resolution 1973 was issued under the “Responsibility To Protect” but in practice it means taking sides in a civil war. Now, one could make the rational argument that the US or NATO or the UN should be taking sides here. I would disagree with you, but it can be done. Either way, it’d be nice to have some honesty about what’s being done and under what authority.

  • allthingsinaname

    Well yes. How many Civilians joined the Rebels? Who are the Rebels and where did they come from? How long have they been there and how did they come to be as powerful as they seem to be? I am not sure one can separate the two, and I am not sure Gadhafi does either.

  • http://shortplaysaboutrealpeople.wordpress.com Michael Maiello

    I agree with you that it’s an easy sounding question with a really complicated answer. But I guess that’s the point of the question, isn’t it? The public’s being sold this war on the “responsibility to protect” so I think it’s important that people realize how much ambiguity is underneath it all.

  • afguy

    Civilian = not packing heat. Not shooting back at you.
    .
    OK, now the tricky part… because, once they are armed, how do you tell?
    .
    Without knowing the people involved (and I mean intimately) and barring any sort of distinct front lines, how do you separate the combatants (i.e. the loyalists from the rebels)?
    .
    How do you make this determination from a couple of hundred feet up, traveling several hundred MPH?

  • Ivy_B

    Sort of the same way they moved from protestors to rebels in the news coverage.

  • allthingsinaname

    No I do not think it was the point of the question. I think the point of the question was some Journalists trying to sound like he knew something.
    .
    He sounded like an idiot to me. Sometimes someone can ask such a stupid question that it just stumps a person.
    .

  • allthingsinaname

    Militia, Rebel, Civilian

  • nflfoghorn

    You and probably can’t. But I’m sure our resident trolls don’t see it that way – black or white or else, you know.

  • shepherdwong

    reb·el /n., adj. – noun verb, re·belled, re·bel·ling.
    .
    1. a person who refuses allegiance to, resists, or rises in arms against the government or ruler of his or her country.
    .
    2. a person who resists any authority, control, or tradition.

    Rebels, by definition, are not part of a government military organization so, yes, even after you pick up a gun you can still be a civilian and a rebel.
    .
    And just when you thought our Beltway-led political discourse couldn’t get any dumber, it always does.

  • theotherjimmyolson

    Chip Reid is a king sized pain in the butt. His question was answered, plain and simple. If the issue isn’t clear force is to be withheld. I see this as grandstanding eating up time at everyone else’s expense. War is not a board game. hopefully actions inconsistant with the charter will be dealt with. Beyond that, I think the resources involved could have been better used domestically.

  • 53_3

    According to the teabaggers, it depends on whose “side” you are on, and how many fruitcakes are still in the ol’ refrigerator upstairs…

  • 53_3

    Micheal:
    .
    You’re smart enough, why don’t you ask Sarah?

  • http://milascurtains.wordpress.com milascurtains

    It is so easy – to ask questions.
    But in general it all sounds like questioning Farthers, what America would be like in 21st Century.
    I think – questions also should be Responsible.

    You just can not pretend to get Responsible answer on irresponsible question.

  • shepherdwong

    If only they were as smart as they thought they were.

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