Welcome to the Emergency Room. Papers Please.

Arizona, which passed a controversial immigration bill last year, is again debating measures to discourage undocumented immigrants from living in the state.

A series of new bills, championed by Republican Senate President Russell Pearce, would make it illegal for such people to drive in Arizona. It would also require businesses to use the federal system called E-Verify to check the immigration status of potential employees. In addition, schools would be required to contact federal immigration officials if students can’t provide proof of legal status. One bill would also attempt to deny automatic citizenship to children born in the Arizona to illegal immigrants.

Another would take the immigration battle all the way into the emergency room. If passed, the measure would require hospital personnel to verify immigration status of each person before they are admitted. If a person could not prove he or she was in the country legally, the hospital would be required to report that to federal immigration officials. If the person needed emergency care, the hospital would still be required to provide it under the rules spelled out in the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, which makes it illegal to deny care to anyone on the basis of his or her ability to pay.

According to the Arizona Republic, this last proposal has the state’s health care workforce worried. Doctors, nurses and hospital administrators could be on the hook legally if they did not check immigration status and report those who appeared to be undocumented. Some are also concerned that Medicaid funding – partially paid by the state – could be withheld from providers and facilities that don’t check immigration status and report offenders. This “compliance burden” could tax already swamped medical workers. There are also concerns about the threat to public health if illegal immigrants with communicable diseases stay away from emergency rooms for fear of being deported.

All of these measures are far from becoming law and have only passed through one legislative committee. Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer has not yet weighed in and the full Arizona Senate and House have not yet voted on the proposed bills. Even if they did pass, some could also, as with last year’s Arizona immigration bill, face constitutional challenges. Several Republicans on the committee that approved the new immigration bills voted against them. There is a lot of resistance in Arizona to enacting more controversial immigration measures, due to the effect they could have on the state economy. Last year’s law prompted some to call for boycotts.

Related Topics: Health Care
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  • hernandezusa

    “Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, which makes it illegal to deny care to anyone on the basis of his or her ability to pay”

    ~ Correct, but it was meant for U.S Citizens and those legally here.

  • hernandezusa

    Why is protecting U.S. Citizens interests and tax money “controversial “?

    What is “controversial” is that fact our Government is the refusing to do their LEGAL duties and protect this nation.

    ER’s in many states were there is a illegal population are financially strained to point of breaking. Which means money and services are being diverted from the poorest Americans and our LEGAL residents.

  • Ivy_B

    The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)[1] is a U.S. Act of Congress passed in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA). It requires hospitals and ambulance services to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions. As a result of the act, patients needing emergency treatment can be discharged only under their own informed consent or when their condition requires transfer to a hospital better equipped to administer the treatment.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

  • afguy

    Your concern for the “poorest Americans” is duly noted.

  • deconstructiva

    Kate, thanks for pointing out that ER’s still have to provide treatment no matter what. Hope you provide more thoughts / details later on all these liability angles: what happens if facts / papers get mixed up, what happens when an illegal one dies / ID mixups, etc. (even if you won’t reply directly to us anymore in comments, sigh). In a twisted way this is reminiscent of 1971 movie “The Hospital” (with George C. Scott and Diana Rigg, written by Paddy Chayefsky, who later wrote “Network”. He won Oscars for both scripts). There’s a scene where the admissions director mindlessly wanders thru the suffering patients-filled waiting room asking, “Do you carry Blue Cross? Blue Shield?” She later finds a dead doctor there, literally, because he wouldn’t give her his BC number. But of course, dying patients and paranoid paperwork over legal status are not funny, but equally insane. Thanks for your thoughts, Kate.

  • Jonathan Evans

    No, actually it wasn’t.

  • brittanicus01

    States should are striving to set-up their own immigration laws, now when it became more discernible that the Federal government is living up to its own policies or completing the border fence amongst other things. Arizona was the first to distinguish this as their great State was first to be overrun by non-English speaking aliens, scrambling for support from Public services. In Contrast is the Sanctuary State of California; the Grand Canyon State never had the financial resources to honor the unfunded federal mandates. Foreign nationals slipped through the border bringing their unborn babies with them, to become a major burden on frontier States, because the courts had said we must monetary pander to anybody who steps on our soil. That’s why the Border States schools are heavily populated with the offspring of illegal aliens, relieving their own countries from educating them; bringing even more poverty to America.

    In border States and throughout the country, almost unfunded mandated laws that emergency rooms must give health treatment to anybody who walks through the doors regardless whether they can pay or not; over 60 hospitals and clinics closed their doors, because of insufficient funds to cover the enormous costs in California and Nevada. Judges in the last decade have warned the California prison system that they need to alleviate overcrowding, which is full of illegal alien gangs and some of the most dangerous criminals spawned from the Hispanic countries. Southwestern States have been crippled by the unparalleled migration costing legal citizens and permanent residents hundreds of billions of dollars every year. The new arrivals are nothing like 20th century immigrants coming through Ellis Island, NY or Galveston, Texas as no Social Services existed back then.

    Today–impoverished illegal aliens are gutting the welfare system; bringing record numbers of deadly criminals and terrorist from further afield. Business interests in many States have brought politicians, so the border still remains open to some extent, as with silent corruption of underfunding the 2006 Secure Fencing Act within months of being enacted. Keeping the border open and over-stretching the limited resources of US agents patrol ling this war zone is an incessant nightmare. Continually harassed by rock throwing thugs or as now guns aimed at these relentless border protectors; have now been overrun by drug cartels that kill without conscience. The border region once a place of desolate enjoyment, with the sound of high winging birds is now no place for American environmentalist, as large areas of territory are covered with the remnants of human waste, the dregs left by illegal nationals slipping through barriers in some places; barricaded with just a few strands of rusty barbed wire or in locations where no fence exists.

    There is no quick fix to this silent invasion that has taken at least two decades, to bring millions of foreigners across our borders or arriving by jet with no intentions of returning to Europe, Asia other continents. Now we must go the distance by joining the TEA Party. We can hold both the Democrats-Liberals and Republicans accountable for the years of abandonment, spending taxpayers money on millions of foreign nationals instead of our infrastructure and the well being of real Americans of every color, race or religion. Arizona’s political leadership finally had devoured enough rhetoric from the powers in Washington, stating that the destitute, uneducated was for the greater good of each States economies; except that illegal aliens was just eroding the safety-net and prospective retirement for senior Americans.

    Finally, one decent State not mired in political regression or union interference, who have quietly been catering to illegal immigrants in their midst, so to fortify their dwindling numbers have large numbers in their membership. Assessed their rising financial damage Arizona State Senator Pierce and his Republican retinue authored their own immigration laws, as the federal government just refused to do so. Now undaunted by being sued by Obama’s Department of Justice Czar in the Washington, has shown other States that the DOJ is a lost cause. He is like a mentor for all States who like so many less aggressive. As the political statesman in Washington mull over their own paramount issues, like funding two foreign wars and their satellite military bases, along monolithic spending to satisfy the industrial base and bailout financial institutions. Less qualified to handle large flows of illegal immigrants, have tested their leadership by enacting its own enforcement laws, such as Utah, Georgia, Texas and many other States in far corners of the US. Those States that remains indifferent to The People’s need for relief from supporting illegal foreign families, will be doomed to higher taxes, spiraling crime and the attenuate of their states treasuries. Every State that wants to defend and protect its legal inhabitants needs to mandate nationwide policing laws E-Verify, 287 (G) and Secure Communities to safeguard America’s people.

    NO copyright, ever. Distribute freely.

  • stuartzechman

    Thanks for the hard information, Ivy_B.

  • jtn1026

    ERs all over the country (I work in one) are strained to the financial breaking point because of UNINSURED patients, regardless of where they were born or whether they have a green card. I’m sure a few undocumented people come through my ER. I know a lot of indigent, uninsured people come through, and the costs of their care get shifted to those who have insurance. There is a reason, though, that they put in the provision that ERs can’t turn people away, and it’s not bleeding-heart liberalism. The reason is that, as KP pointed out, there is a public health issue involved. That undocumented alien who is turned away from the ER (or just doesn’t go there in the first place for fear of deportation), or the uninsured citizen who can’t pay, may infect others. Lots of others.

  • lepidusxvi

    …and the award for most evil state goes to….
    .
    Seriously making people choose between death and staying in the country?
    .
    This will work awesome. I cannot imagine what happens the first time a child of a white Arizona family catches polio or cholera or something after the entire illegal immigrant population stops going to see doctors.
    .
    I’ll give them creativity points though. Outlawing “anchor babies” is against the constitution they all claim to love so much, so instead they just guarantee a higher mortality rate among those babies by forcing their mothers to try and give birth at home without professional help.
    .
    It’s both constitutional and evil, I’m sure it gets passed in Arizona.

  • fhmadvocat

    You are so full of hogwash. Illegal immigrants come here looking to work! If employers did not offer them work, they would not stay. If you want to blame someone, blame those who hire them.

    Oh, by the way, many illegals have phony social security numbers and thus, when they work, they actually pay taxes. That is a lot easier than collecting a welfare check.

  • fhmadvocat

    Hey where is rdw56 to tell me how Conservatives are for less regulation? After all, aren’t all these new laws additional regulation of hospitals? Why are these evil Liberal Republicans in Arizona out to get illegal immigrants?

  • apr2563

    How easily some lay aside their purported beliefs in Judeo-Christianity.

  • conversets

    Fine. If I were da prez, I would immediately freeze all federal transportation, education, and healthcare funds slated to go to AZ until such time that Pearce, Brewer, and all the other AZ dittoheads come to their senses and stop acting like whiney little children.

  • shepherdwong

    …A series of new bills, championed by Republican Senate President Russell Pearce…
    .
    It’s become a party of psychopaths. Seriously.

  • http://chilidog99.wordpress.com chilidog99

    ==============
    “One bill would also attempt to deny automatic citizenship to children born in the Arizona to illegal immigrants.”
    =============

    The state of Arizona does not have the power to unilaterally change the United States Constitution. This bill will never pass.

  • http://chilidog99.wordpress.com chilidog99

    You have to remember that Pearce is LDS. Up untill the 70′s LDS doctrine was quite racist and did not consider Mexicans to be the same as whites.

  • kbanginmotown

    (laughing) afguy: Brilliant! The “snark” font works wonderfully!

  • square1

    The state of Arizona does not have the power to unilaterally change the United States Constitution.
    .
    Correct.
    .
    This bill will never pass.
    .
    Don’t jump to conclusions.

  • kbanginmotown

    jnt1026: Excellent point. Sadly, bigotry and unintended consequences mix all to well..

  • apr2563

    You know, I was refreshing my memories of George Romney the other day. I was struck how bravely he stood with the Civil Rights movement. If only his son had his guts.

  • http://chilidog99.wordpress.com chilidog99

    So what? if it passes, it will be struck down in the first court challenge. All appeals will be upheld. SCOTUS won’t bother to grant cert.

  • http://chilidog99.wordpress.com chilidog99

    Just an interesting note, George Romney was born in Mexico.

  • square1

    You remain correct. I simply have no confidence that the Arizona legislature will restrict itself to only passing bills that are arguably constitutional.

  • 3xfire3

    brittanicus01 & hernandezusa,
    .
    Thank you for your thoughtful and informative comments.
    .
    As you can see our Liberal friends on this blog are not interested in being informed or looking at actual factual information. They are in a dream world of their own and believe their distorted views of reality will make the world a better place. They don’t realize the truth which is that illegal immigration is harming our poorest citizens the most and making their difficult lives even more difficult.
    .
    It does no good to try and reason with these Liberals. It’s their way or the highway. Through their welfare systems they have destroyed the black families in our Intercitys, destroyed the work ethics of our poorest citizens, destroyed the education system of our poorest citizens and are currently destroying our country with more crazy Liberal programs.
    .
    Don’t be discouraged from posting comments on this blog. You are right and they are wrong.

  • http://chilidog99.wordpress.com chilidog99

    Think of it as a jobs bill. . . . for lawyers.

  • virginiagentleman

    Whenever I see someone comment that the government is “refusing to do their (sic) LEGAL duties and protect this nation,” it makes me to want to ask a few questions. This time, I think I’ll see if hernandezusa or someone else can answer them for me:
    .
    What exactly is the government failing to do? I assume you mean limit access to the country by people without the legal right to be (or stay) here. But what constitutes a “failure” rate? In reality, it appears that the rate of illegal immigration has declined during the Obama years, but that may be a result of fewer economic opportunities in the US than the Administration’s border security efforts. But if the rate is declining, how is that “failure?”
    .
    If you claim that it’s the existing total of undocumented people in the country that represents a failure, what would be an acceptable total? How low does the total have to go to satisfy you?
    .
    How do you plan to reach this goal? What are you going to do? More importantly, how much money are you willing to spend to do it?
    .
    Are you willing to raise taxes to do it?

  • blueswede04

    Sources? Links? This is a very long opinion piece with no actual information.

  • moderatelyinterested

    Chilidog-

    Here is a link to the LDS Church’s position on immigration http://newsroom.lds.org/article/church-supports-principles-of-utah-compact-on-immigration. Pearce may be LDS, but he certainly doesn’t speak for the Church nor represent LDS policy.
    .
    Also, what basis do you have to say that “LDS doctrine…did not consider Mexicans to be the same as whites.” And please don’t cite the well-known change that gave the priesthood to black males in 1978. That had nothing to do with Mexicans.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Who says political correctness has run amok. It seems no one blinks as long as the racism is directed against Hispanics or Muslims.
    .
    Note for anyone who says, that it’s not about race but only about being “illegal” , how do you suppose the laws restricting immigration got put in place in the first place?

  • allthingsinaname

    Immigrants are not the problem, never have been, never will be.

  • http://tisias.wordpress.com tisias

    I understand the perspective, and the fear that illegal immegrants degrade our country through their culture and association with gang violence, and allegedly usurpering our manual labor jobs. But this rationalization is nothing new.

    The Irish anybody? Eastern Europeans? The Germans? Anyone remember the atrocities committed against the Chinese immigrants in California, or the Japanese concentration camps? And more recently Muslims, or anyone who even looks remotely associated with them?

    So when a proposal like the DREAM Act comes along offering a way to integrate these people into functioning successful Americans, we don’t have the spine to push for it.

    Remember, these Mexican immigrants are not going to slow or stop their flow across the border. It’s up to our leaders to solve the problems facing including them into our country.

  • http://tisias.wordpress.com tisias

    sorry 3x,
    things aren’t always as black and white as deluded dream world

    we all have our perfect ideas of how the world should work

    when we rationalize bad logic and hurtful decisions, then we do much more harm than any good intentions could make up for

    its called being quixotic

  • http://tisias.wordpress.com tisias

    that’s libertarians
    of all the conservatives in the Republican coalition, they are the ones I actually have the most respect for
    at least they stick to their promise of 1 thing only: less government in our lives

    no granted I don’t always agree with them, but at least their philosophy isn’t based on the pseudo-stop-big-government while protecting family values at the cost of individual rights granted by the Constitution and “promoting freedoms”

  • textee

    If the millions and millions of illegal aliens in this country demanded that Time magazine give each of them a subscription to Time magazine for life and at no cost to the illegals, would Time magazine comply? If not, why not?

    Why would hospitals provide unlimited health care for life to illegal aliens when said illegals will never pay a penny for the costs of such care?

    How stupid would you have to be to think that said hospitals should provide unlimited health care for life to illegals who will not pay a penny for such care?

  • 3xfire3

    blueswede04,
    .
    Sources? Links? This is a very long opinion piece with no actual information..
    .
    It’s not opinion. It’s facts. If you had any smarts or real knowledge you would know these facts from all the evidence that has been published and that we see around us every day.
    .
    The only point that you could actually call opinion is the last one about Liberal programs destroying our country. That is my opinion but it becomes more obviously true every day.

    .

  • afguy

    That is my opinion but it becomes more obviously true every day.
    .
    What? Obviously true that it’s YOUR opinion?
    .
    I whole-heartedly agree with that observation. I bow to your intellect with that insight.

  • http://tisias.wordpress.com tisias

    and a wasteful bill… for taxpayers

  • m0mentom0ri

    “If not, why not?”
    .
    Because you won’t die if you’re denied a copy of Time magazine.
    .
    But hey, if its any comfort, textee, you’re crazier than Rusty.

  • liberalmeltdown

    “If the person needed emergency care, the hospital would still be required to provide it under the rules spelled out in the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act, which makes it illegal to deny care to anyone on the basis of his or her ability to pay.”
    .
    And the truth comes out about health care. Woot there it is.

  • liberalmeltdown

    Under the “Who’s Dying Now” file…
    .
    http://projects.latimes.com/hospitals/emergency-rooms/
    .
    California’s dwindling emergency rooms

    Scores of California hospitals have shut down their emergency rooms or closed entirely in the last decade.

    Emergency room physicians say the closures have led to long waits, diverted ambulances and, in the most extreme cases, patient deaths. The closures also mean that patients in need of emergency care may need to travel farther, delaying access to treatment.
    .
    .
    So American citizens are dying because of illegal aliens abusing the emergency rooms.
    .
    But immigrants aren’t a problem, huh? NO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE THE PROBLEM.

  • http://summerale.wordpress.com summer ale

    Wait….what? Nowhere in that article was “immigrant,” “illegal,” or “alien” even mentioned. Quite a jump you made there. Do you by any chance play hopscotch?

    Emergency rooms are closing, this is true. But it couldn’t possibly have anything to do with our messed-up health care/insurance situation, could it?

  • 3xfire3

    afguy,
    .
    “I whole-heartedly agree with that observation. I bow to your intellect with that insight.”
    .
    You should in that you have none of your own.

    .

  • nflfoghorn

    Oh great and powerful XXX, let me crown thy wondrous insight. Please bend over.

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  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    “overrun”
    “pander to anybody ”
    “rock throwing thugs ”
    “the most dangerous criminals spawned from the Hispanic countries”

    To 3x these phrases constitute “facts”.
    .
    Does that mean that if I refer to him as a “racist scumbag” that it’s also a fact?

  • robbert5

    Textee,

    it is not unlimited care, ppl will be discharged as soon as the direct danger to life has been resolved. That is what ER is for. The after care will not be there for them, i.e. cancer treatment will not be followed up etc.. Having said that though, this is the most expensive care possible and does add up in the total cost for the hospitals and eventually the taxpayer.

  • robbert5

    Nowhere in the article was there hint of a connection between the closing of the ER’s and illegal immigrants’ use of these ER’s.
    ..
    Please back up your opinions with facts.

  • allthingsinaname

    They demonized the Courts, the Government, the Military, Unions, Teachers, the poor, Immigrants, They are in short a bunch of malcontents .
    .
    Yet you still argue with these fools. Why?

  • afguy

    robert5,
    .
    You forget the RW mantra…
    .
    “I opine… therefore, I am…. right.”
    .
    Facts and links are for us liberal wusses, NOT for elderly TP hangers-on.

  • chohkmah

    Frankly, it’s like trying to suppress a virus…
    .
    It’s (this sort of fear-mongering, malignant misinformation) custom designed to spread as fast and as wide as possible, and utterly infect as many people as it can. People who do not have the proper immunity (facts) to inoculate against it.
    .
    So it’s an uphill battle, a losing battle, perhaps. Merely trying to buy enough time that the autoimmune function (people’s higher brain functions) kick on…
    .
    Why?
    .
    Because to not combat it is to leave the whole system to rot.

  • chohkmah

    “It’s not opinion. It’s facts. If you had any smarts or real knowledge you would know these facts from all the evidence that has been published and that we see around us every day.
    .
    The only point that you could actually call opinion is the last one about Liberal programs destroying our country. That is my opinion but it becomes more obviously true every day.”

    x3 ~

    You’ll have to forgive us if the “it’s true cuz I say so” line of reasoning is less that resoundingly convincing.

    Don’t take it personally, it’s just that the primitive neural cluster you call a brain is completely divorced from what the rest of us perceive as reality.

  • earljr1

    Perhaps a better analogy,chohkmah, would be a comparison to an autoimmune disorder. When your immune system can no longer differentiate between antigens that inter the body and your own tissue, it attacks naturally existing body tissues. Autoimmune disorder can destroy your organs and will ultimately kill its host, if left unchecked.
    Our emergency rooms are currently maxed out. If we do not take steps to screen the number of people clamoring for treatment in these facilities, the whole system will break.
    The ER serves a vital role in our communities and save thousands of lives annually. To lose this valuable entity should be unthinkable to all of us.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Oddly enough, the last Congress addressed that problem quite directly but the Right is screaming bloody murder because the solution was to make sure more people carried insurance rather than turn more people away. What kind of “solution” doesn’t inflict pain on lowlifes?

  • shepherdwong

    Our emergency rooms are currently maxed out. If we do not take steps to screen the number of people clamoring for treatment in these facilities, the whole system will break.
    .
    If you give them access to primary care they’ll “screen” themselves and save the country a bundle in the process. Exactly what “Obamacare,” that you constantly and foolishly criticize, is intended to do.
    .
    You been lobbying your doctor’s association for a single-payer system that would provide better access or do just b!tch and complain in a purely partisan fashion about a system that’s been going to hell for a generation?

  • earljr1

    If you are referring to Obamacare, paul, that legislation(?) still leaves millions uninsured, the cost continues to escalate and overall, is but a band aide on a gaping wound. Back to the drawing boards on this ill fated nightmare.
    Illegal access to our ER’s is tantamount to clogged mitral valve….unless cleared, it will eventually kill the system.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Let people die in the streets now so they won’t be dying in the streets later. Brilliant!

  • earljr1

    No, sheperd, we have been lobbying for some time now (Docs4PatientCare.org) and SHOULD have been listened to before Obamacare was ramrodded through (victory at any cost)
    The current system is not broken but we concur, it is in need of a major tune up. A one payer system is definitely something we could consider, but we think it is essential to remove the insurance companies from their role of allocating health care. Physicians should determine course of treatment, not insurance companies.
    Paul, consider what you just said. If the system breaks, MANY people will die simply for want of care. Are YOU (and your family) prepared to make that sacrifice?

  • 3xfire3

    PD,
    .
    Funny, I don’t remember making any of these comments. It must have been in your dreams PD.
    .
    You are real piece of work.

  • shepherdwong

    A one payer system is definitely something we could consider, but we think it is essential to remove the insurance companies from their role of allocating health care.
    .
    That makes you a liberal, health care policy wise. And Obama didn’t put insurance companies in charge of the health care system, he just tried to make the current system more robust and effective than he found it. But doctors have sure been a major force for keeping the system under insurance industry control.

    The AMA strongly disagrees with an article arguing for a single-payer health care system published in the Aug. 13 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), which is editorially independent from the AMA, and has long-standing policy opposing a single-payer health care system. A JAMA editorial accompanying the single-payer opinion piece encourages the exploration and discussion of various new solutions.

    http://allnurses-central.com/world-news-current/american-medical-association-59615.html

  • earljr1

    “He tried to make the system more robust and effective than he found it” If that is true, sheperd, then he failed, miserably! His collusion with the insurance industry and big Pharma, strengthened their hand, escalated costs and is essentially removing the patients doctor from the decision making process. Are you comfortable with this, sheperd? If you, or a family member needs extensive treatment, or surgery, who do you want making that call?
    Obamacare is one short step away from rationed care and this is a far cry from the first rate medicine you have received to this point. Remember, almost 85% of Americans are happy with their health care and a whopping 96% said they both liked and trusted their doctor.

  • shepherdwong

    His collusion with the insurance industry and big Pharma, strengthened their hand, escalated costs and is essentially removing the patients doctor from the decision making process.
    .
    Please stop with your ridiculous lies and stupidity, it just confirms the suspicion that you can’t possibly be a practicing doctor (and if that’s not a lie, I feel truly concerned for anyone unfortunate to be treated by you). You have no clue what you’re talking about.
    .
    The ACA has been estimated to greatly reduce costs and the patient protections in the bill do exact the opposite of what you claim: they put more decision-making power in the hands of patients and their doctors, rather than with the insurance companies. If your complaint is that it keeps it an insurance-based system then your complaint is with the AMA, big pharma and the insurance giants. They created the current system and made sure it stayed this way. Obama isn’t a potentate and he was never going to be able take away the golden goose from those powerful lobbies. He couldn’t even get a crappy public option passed, for Christ’s sake.

  • earljr1

    You have swallowed the koolaid, shepperd and will be one of those screaming bloody murder in the very near future. Screaming because your doctor stopped accepting Medicare and you are finding difficulty in locating anyone who will treat your irritable self (you must be a real joy to be around)
    Time will tell who is right here and I look forward to coming back with an “I told you so”.
    But then again, that will start a whole NEW argument with you, so why bother.

  • allthingsinaname

    But you are not combating it, you have joined it. It is the same frigging argument over and over again the only ones listing are those arguing.
    ,
    Call it what it is and move on. They are fools, full of hate and discontent, unchristian and, anti-government. They have no plan and, are for the destruction of the society as it has been built.
    .
    Weather they are genuine in their beliefs we will never know.
    .
    Virus, spam, whatever it propagates through the general public like this.

  • shepherdwong

    If I’m going to take them at all, I’ll take my predictions of the future from people who can at least understand observable reality up to the present day, thanks just the same.

  • troubador222

    I was thinking yesterday that the entire right wing political platform is really based on seeing what group they can denigrate next. They even do it to members of their own political party. Eventually the groups of people to hate and blame for everything will grow so large, they will damage their own political clout. It’s really happening now. At the moment, they have disproportionate political power. That will correct itself too.

  • 3xfire3

    troubador,
    .
    You are a very foolish person with no understanding of reality. You make stupid untrue statements about those who have different political views than you do without understanding their views which are shared by a large majority of American citizens.
    .
    The 2010 election showed what our citizens think of you and your deranged views and policies. 2012 will send you back to the desert for another 40 years.
    .
    From your comments I would guess you are either quite young or a mindless Ideologue.

  • 3xfire3

    shepwrong,
    .
    “If I’m going to take them at all, I’ll take my predictions of the future from people who can at least understand observable reality up to the present day, thanks just the same.”
    .
    How one person can be so consistently wrong is simply amazing. You are obviously a very angry and unhappy person. The future does not look good for your political views. They were soundly rejected in 2010 and will go down in flames in 2012.
    .
    Your negative view of the world is not a healthy frame of mind. Your distorted views of our country and its citizens are not reality. What happened in your life to make you such a bitter, hateful and irrational person?
    .

  • liberalmeltdown

    In reply to 17, my last comment is in moderation? I guess they are still reading it?
    .
    There are so many illegals in California that DUI checkpoints have become Illegals driving without a license checkpoints.
    .
    http://www.alternet.org/immigration/145665/california_cops_exploit_dui_checkpoints_to_bring_in_money_for_cities,_police
    .
    Cities where Hispanics represent a majority of the population are seizing cars at three times the rate of cities with small minority populations. In South Gate, a Los Angeles County city where Hispanics make up 92 percent of the population, police confiscated an average of 86 vehicles per operation last fiscal year.

  • liberalmeltdown

    Emergency rooms in LA have closed down from illegal aliens not paying for care.
    .

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150750,00.html

    Sixty percent of the county’s uninsured patients are not U.S. citizens. More than half are here illegally. About 2 million undocumented aliens in Los Angeles County alone are crowding emergency rooms because they can’t afford to see a doctor.

  • liberalmeltdown

    More replies to 17

    http://www.businessinsider.com/why-california-is-the-next-greece-2010-05#california-has-americas-fewest-7-emergency-rooms-per-one-million-people-6
    16 Reasons Why California Is The Next Greece

    California has America’s fewest — 7 — emergency rooms per one million people

    Source: LA Times
    A national report card released last month by the American College of Emergency Physicians gave California a failing grade for access to emergency care. The state ranks last in emergency departments per capita, with only seven per 1 million people, compared with the national average of 20. And it ranks 43rd in the country for Medi-Cal reimbursement

  • liberalmeltdown

    http://antonovich.lacounty.gov/Pages/Press%20Releases/09/May/Washington%20DC%20050509.htm

    May 5, 2009—Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich is in Washington D.C. this week on the Board’s annual legislative meeting with members of the California Congressional delegation and federal agencies. Antonovich will speak with Federal officials on the devastating impact illegal immigration continues to have on Los Angeles County.

    Annually the cost of illegal immigration to Los Angeles County taxpayers exceeds over one billion dollars, which includes $350 million for public safety, $400 million for healthcare, and $500 million in welfare and food stamp allocations. Twenty-four percent of the County’s total allotment of welfare and food stamp benefits goes directly to the children of illegal aliens born in the United States.

    Illegal immigration continues to have a devastating impact on Los Angeles County taxpayers,” said Antonovich. “The total cost for illegal immigrants to County taxpayers exceeds $1 billion a year – not including the millions of dollars for education.”

  • troubador222

    Time will tell wont it.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks
  • 3xfire3

    “From your comments I would guess you are either quite young or a mindless Ideologue.”
    .
    You did not answer the question. Are you young or a mindless ideologue?

  • Ivy_B

    Thank you. I would not have bothered had you not posted the link. At least there are now term limits.

  • ohiolibb

    Well, there is always the freewelcher option: Let them die.

  • liberalmeltdown

    27, typical response. You can’t dispute the numbers, so you cite some attack wiki post on Antonovich. Like ALL the Democrats in CA aren’t self serving sellouts to Public Employee Unions.
    .
    You have to be living under a rock, or in Delaware to not know that the Southwest US has been invaded. How do you think that whole cities have completely changed demographics since the 1986 amnesty? Whole cities are 92% hispanic; the majority of which are from Mexico. They aren’t legal; that’s for sure. How do you think, if you do, that Hispanics will soon be the majority in CA? Illegal immigration.
    .
    Liberal media refuses to print the truth. So, they lie and coverup. The LA Times is the biggest rag in the country and nothing but a shill for Democrats.
    .
    I posted several articles that show that So. California is over run with illegal aliens. You want more? Maybe I’ll take a video of downtown LA, where you can buy a fake Driver’s license and they advertise it with a sign right on the sidewalk.
    .
    You have 5,000 poor people coming from Mexico everyday. They have nothing, so who do you think pays for every social service that they use? Not them.
    .
    Sound familiar?
    .

    II. The Barbarians Arrive: The Fourth and Fifth Centuries CE

    Increasing pressure from peoples outside the Empire, the so-called barbarians, had compelled the Romans in later antiquity to let more and more foreigners inside their state. Since most of these spoke a language based on Common Germanic, the Romans referred to them collectively as Germans, even though they actually represented a wide array of nations and cultures. These newly adopted resident aliens were assigned to work farms or conscripted into the Roman army in numbers so large that the late Latin word for “soldier” came to be barbarus (“barbarian”). And where these barbarians met resistance, they sneaked or pushed their way inside the Empire, and in such a profusion that Rome was fast turning into a nation of immigrants.

    Not that things hadn’t actually been that way for centuries, only by late antiquity it was undeniable that, in spite of being called “Roman,” the Empire was, in fact, a multicultural enterprise. The pretense of a “Roman” Rome had worn so thin it was impossible to maintain the illusion, for instance, that everyone in the Empire could speak—or even wanted to speak—Latin, the Romans’ native tongue. Furthermore, it had been ages since any emperor had even bothered to pretend his lineage could be traced back to some ancestor who had arrived with Aeneas in Italy, an invented history which was beginning to look rather silly when Spaniards and North Africans had been steering the Empire for decades.

    The stark truth was that by the fifth century CE—and indeed for many years before that—a succession of dynamic and capable foreigners coming from all ends of the Empire had kept Rome on its feet and these men were as “Roman” as anyone born or bred in the capital. Barbarians were, and had been for a long time, guarding and feeding the Empire, which made it all the more difficult to claim they shouldn’t also be running it. While three centuries earlier the Roman satirist Juvenal had lamented, “I can’t stand a Greek Rome,” now Rome wasn’t merely Greek. It was Dacian and Egyptian and Syrian and, most of all, ever more German by the day.

    Thus, the sort of change which Rome had undergone—and which implies per se a certain trajectory into the future—was all too clear: from a local stronghold in Italy, to a multinational power, to the only superpower in the known world, to a globalized conglomerate of many different peoples. Even if Romans still held the title to the Empire and affected superiority over the barbarians managing their domain, Roman possession of the lands around the Mediterranean Sea was, for the most part, only on paper. The reality was that the state was jointly owned, a participatory experiment which was by then maintained with the sweat and blood of many races—and there were even more who would have liked to sign up as “Roman” but they couldn’t get in.

    This begs the question, then, why so many foreigners lived—and even more wanted to live—in Rome. Why did barbarians in such numbers press to invade an empire in which they were treated as second-class citizens no matter how hard they worked and collaborated? The answer is easy. The Roman Empire in that day was a far safer place to live and offered much better accommodations than the wild world outside its borders.

  • piper1

    3X,
    .
    Not to speak for troupador or anything, but there is no question in your fact-free, rambling diatribe to answer, you senile old coot. Get off my lawn!

  • liberalmeltdown

    That’s so stupid, that it doesn’t even deserve to be posted.

  • liberalmeltdown

    First: They are Mexican citizens; therefore, they are the responsibility of MEXICO. You don’t see Mexico or any other country taking care of US citizens.
    .
    Second: Nobody wants them to die.
    .
    Third: They shouldn’t be here in the first place.
    .
    Fourth: They should advocate for change in their own government, not ours.

  • sacredh

    August 24th of this year will be the 1601st anniversary of the fall of Rome. I felt compelled to mention that piece of trivia. It doesn’t seem a day over 1600 years.

  • 3xfire3

    liberalmeltdown,
    .
    But, but did you not hear. Our Liberal friends said that illegal [sorry I meant to say undocumented immigrants] are not the problem. Thousands of Liberals can’t be wrong can they?
    .
    The Loony Left doesn’t give a dam about our poor American citizens. Their concern is only for the illegals.

  • ohiolibb

    Except, LM, that’s the freewelcher solution. When it was pointed out to freewelcher that kicking the seriously and mentally ill off medicaid would cause people to die, he responded by saying “first, people die”. See 7.2 and 7.3.
    -
    http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2011/02/22/what-wisconsin-has-wrought-labor-unrest-spreads/
    -
    then again,m when you rub shoulders with racists like rustyblog and 2/3rock, I suppose a little deadly neglect is just par for the course.

  • 3xfire3

    piper1,
    .
    “Not to speak for troupador or anything, but there is no question in your fact-free, rambling diatribe to answer, you senile old coot. Get off my lawn!”
    .
    My comments were a legitimate response to the untrue BS that troupador posted.
    .
    Don’t speak for troup speak for yourself. Which are you, young or a mindless Ideologue or perhaps just an Idiot? You must be one or the other to agree with troup’s post.

  • 3xfire3

    Liberalmeltdown,
    .
    Notice how quiet all the Liberals are when presented with facts that don’t support their distorted political views. Not a peep out of any of them.
    .
    I thought for sure Patrick could Google some LW Media Source and find some distorted information that would show that the County Supervisor for L. A. doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
    .
    Facts can be so troubling for our friend on the Left.

  • paulejb

    Question…
    .
    Has anyone here ever shown up at an emergency room and not been asked to identify themselves?

  • paulejb

    Illegal aliens…

    Admit them to the hospital, give them the best treatment possible, and bill the government of the country where they originated for the total cost. If they refuse to pay, deduct the payment from the foreign aid provided by Uncle Sucker.

  • paulejb

    sacredh,
    .
    The Eastern Roman Empire lasted until 1453. In that year. Constantinople fell to the Ottomans. So the Roman Empire survived until 558 years ago.

  • 3xfire3

    Too logical.
    .
    We have complete Idiots like Ohiolibb and shepwrong who don’t believe in logic. It just gets in the way of their distorted world views.

  • 3xfire3

    From the comments made by many Liberals on this site it is obvious that they don’t really believe in Democracy. It’s their way or the highway. If you do not believe as they do you are evil.
    .
    Fortunately the vast majority of Americans sees them as total loons and will never vote them into power.
    .
    Where most Americans see our country as Exceptional and one that has helped more people around the world than any country in history, Liberals see it as a country that is not exceptionally good. They see it as a country that has many evil citizens and one that has done many evil things to its citizens and to other people around the world.
    .
    They claim to love their country but if that’s love one would have to ask how them how they define hate.

  • apr2563

    “Jesus answered, ‘If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.’”
    -Matthew 19:21

    “He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.”
    -Proverbs 14:31

    “The righteous care about justice for the poor, but the wicked have no such concern.”
    -Proverbs 29:7

    “Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court, for the LORD will take up their case and will plunder those who plunder them.”
    -Proverbs 22:22-23

    “Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.’”
    -Matthew 19:23-24

  • ohiolibb

    Since when is pointing out lies and hate illogical? Oh yeah, when it makes the trolls look bad.

  • paulejb

    ohiolibb@31.22.

    Snappy retort, Libb, but you did not answer the question. Can you do nothing but lash out with knee jerk reactions when confronted by a question?

  • sacredh

    Rome was sacked and burned on August 24th, 410 AD. I was talking about Rome itself. The empire lasted in fragments much longer, but Rome fell on that date. I only mentioned it because I was reading a book last night that mentioned the date. The book is “Ghost Country” by Patrick Lee. It’s been good from page one. It’s a mix of Dan Brown and Arthur C. Clarke.

  • ohiolibb

    The question wasn’t asked here. But nice try. And I’ve long since given up on reasoning with the sort of conservative slimeballs and idiots who frequent the swamp. You get called libtard, traitor, or evil. It’s actually more productive to mock them. Then at least you get a laugh.

  • sacredh

    Be careful bringing Jesus into the conversation. He’s a registered republican and I hear his dad is some kind of big shot in their party. He could make Carl Rove look like a piker if he wanted to.

  • ohiolibb

    Whoa, whoa, there. You can’t actually cite the bible. That’s just not fair to the nuts jobs. It’s not their fault they only know what beck and limbaugh tell them.

  • troubador222

    I was merely exercising my 1st Amendment rights 3x and I stand by my opinion. If it’s not gays, its Hispanics, Muslims and now teachers and public employees. There is always some group to demonize and blame and the real problems get ignored. I don’t dispute the fact that illegal immigration is a problem and we need to address it. I dont dispute the fact that the Federal Government has not done what it should. That includes both parties. But it’s also a fact that most illegals come here looking for work. Now that work is hard to find, illegal immigration is at the lowest levels in years.

    . I contend that denying emergency medical care to people based on their immigration status is unethical, immoral and dangerous from a public health stand point.

    .
    As to your comments meant to draw me into name calling, which seem to be designed to steer the conversation away from civil debate, I am not going to address them, other than to say when a pro asks a question in writing, he usually ends the sentence with a question mark.

  • troubador222

    This was meant as an comment replying to 3x at my comments at 22

  • robbert5

    FOX news????
    ..
    Really???
    ..

    ..
    And you expect a reply to that????

  • robbert5

    I fail to see what this has to do with the topic other than just to make a racist point.

  • robbert5

    Again, no direct relation to the ongoing topic….I understand, you are a racist.

  • robbert5

    No 3x, we are just tired having to reply to stupidity!

  • paulejb

    ohiolibb@31.4,
    .
    Or perhaps, you really can’t provide an answer because you are stumped by the question.

  • paulejb

    sacredh@29.3,
    .
    The last Western Roman Emperor, Romulus Augustus, reigned from October 475 till September 476. He was then deposed by Odoacer a German chieftain. That ended the Western Roman Empire. The Eastern Roman Empire lasted for another 1000 years.

  • liberalmeltdown

    No, in fact they ask for insurance. And, whenever I have been pulled over the police ask for my papers! I think they are racists.

  • liberalmeltdown

    I guess you went to church today.
    .
    Isn’t it terrible what Mexico does to its citizens, April?

  • liberalmeltdown

    3x, liberals never let facts get int their way. There have been at least 70 emergency rooms closed in LA County in the last few years due to illegals abusing the Emergency Room for health care, not paying, leaving California, not to mention LA County dead last in available Emergency Rooms per capita.
    .
    I was just joking about going to Tijuana, and I realized it’s come to me. I can get anything in downtown LA without crossing the border.

  • 3xfire3

    Apr,
    .
    Thanks for proving my point.
    .
    As you are aware a study has been done titled
    “Who Really Cares”.
    .
    In this study it showed:
    .
    1. Conservatives donate substantially more of their person money to charities, as a percentage of their income, than do Liberals.
    .
    2. Conservatives volunteer substantially more of their personal time to help others than do liberals.
    .
    3. Conservatives donate blood to help other substantially more often than Liberals do.
    .
    Liberals talk a good game but do little personally to help people in need. Liberals solution to any problems is to have the government provide the help to those in need. They certainly don’t want to get their own hands dirty helping the poor.
    .
    Liberals have the nerve to claim that Conservatives are against the poor. The facts show just the opposite. It appears that liberalism as defined by most of the Liberals on this site is one big lie.
    .
    We have hate mongers like Ohiolibb come on to this site and spread their garbage demonizing Conservatives. As the above study shows Conservatives are the compassionate ones and actually do the work to help the poor. Not Liberals.

  • liberalmeltdown

    No, I expect the typical knee jerk reply.
    .
    It’s a local station. I’ll tell the local illegal immigrant advocate Tony Valdez that he’s full of it because he works for FOX, other than that the story above is true.

  • liberalmeltdown

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1625006/posts

    L.A. FOX 11 Tony Valdez – “You killed people to take this country for yourselves” (Audio #289)
    John and Ken show ^ | 5-1-06 | dfu

    Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 6:26:27 PM by doug from upland

    Local Fox News in Los Angeles, Channel 11, had an incredible exchange in a segment with John and Ken. J & K were chastizing the press for not showing the other side about all the costs of illegal aliens.

    There was a difference of opinion between FOX personnel and John and Ken about the effect of the boycott.

    And then there was an amazing statement, actually a monologue for news reporter Tony Valdez. Rather than posing a question to John and Ken, he launched into the whole Reconquista argument, talking about Manifest Destiny and U.S. invasion of Mexico in 1846. He talked about how this country took this part of the world by force and how they do that in Iraq and Iran.

    And then this news reporter, news reporter mind you, said, “You took this country. You killed people to take this country for yourselves.”

  • liberalmeltdown

    Let’s see what our illegal friends think about their new homeland…
    Here’s a poll you will NEVER EVER see in a liberal publication like the LA Times:
    .
    A ‘Hispanic Homeland’ could be written off as the work of extremists were it not for wide-spread support by Mexicans. A June 2002 Zogby poll of Mexicans found that a substantial majority of Mexican citizens believe that southwestern America is rightfully the territory of Mexico and that Mexicans do not need the permission of the U.S. to enter. The poll, a people search of appropriate persons, found that 58 percent of Mexicans agree with the statement, “The territory of the United States’ southwest rightfully belongs to Mexico.” Zogby said 28 percent disagreed, while another 14 percent said they weren’t sure.

    .
    http://www.illegalaliens.us/aztlan.htm
    .
    .
    Somehow this isn’t controversial.
    More on the new Aztlan nation as taught in the California School System:
    http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html
    .
    The MEChA Clubs on each of the Santa Barbara high school campuses are not the only ones. MEChA groups exist on 90 percent of the public high school, college and university campuses in the Southwestern United States.

    Antonio Villaraigosa, LA Mayor is a former member of MEChA.

  • liberalmeltdown

    All very true 3x. Liberals think that a corrupt, inefficient government program is better for the poor than having a charity that is much more efficient and effective and staffed with people that actually care.
    .
    I guess charitable volunteers should strike and demand lucrative pensions.

  • 3xfire3

    troubador,
    .
    You don’t know what you don’t know.
    You make assumptions that are wrong.
    .
    I have no problem with illegal immigrants as individuals. As I have said on this site before, if I were in their situation I would be climbing the fence if that’s what it takes to provide for my family.
    .
    My complaint is with our government that does little to really solve this problem. Politicians that put their heads in the sand because they are cowards to do the work necessary to solve the problem.
    .
    No one in need of emergency help should be turned away from an emergency room.
    .
    The lack of action by our government both democrats and Republicans is the problem.
    .
    It is a fact that illegal immigration causes harms to our poorest citizens. This is not because the illegals are bad people. They are almost all good people who live in a bad country. When we are flooded by illegal immigration it drives wages down and takes jobs opportunities away from our poorest citizens. Good jobs such as construction and manufacturing.
    .
    I live in a small town of 17,000. Nearly 20% of our citizens are Hispanic. They are almost all second and third generation in the USA. They go to my church and are some of my best friends and that of my children and grandchildren. They are great people and great citizens and they make our community a better place.
    .
    We as a country do not have the resources to absorb the quantity of illegal immigrants that are coming across our border.

  • ohiolibb

    Really, 3x? I’m the hatemonger when you’re calling liberals evil? Methinks the adage about taking the board out of your own before out the splinter in others’ is applicable here. Then again, you never managed to back up some of your previous claims, so I shouldn’t expect you to do anything else now.

  • ohiolibb

    Well, paul, you’re seeing things that aren’t there. That’s apparently why you both believe that the question was asked here (it wasn’t) and why you, like 3x, take every disagreement as a personal attack. If that’s not enough, I’ll give you a more thorough explanation when you stop eating babies.

  • liberalmeltdown

    Immigration is one thing. Millions of illegals in a few years is not immigration; it’s an invasion. When the demographics of a city go to 90% Hispanic in a few years from 20, 30, 40%, it’s not immigration. The majority by far are unskilled workers. I don’t know if you have noticed but there aren’t jobs for them. So they have, or more likely already had a baby. The anchor baby makes them eligible for everything from welfare to food stamps.

  • earljr1

    Oh, the irony, april. An avowed atheist using the bible trying to illustrate a point.
    The bible also tells us, april, “Which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he has sufficient to finish it?” Luke 14.28
    We simply can no longer absorb the cost of treating people who enter this country illegally. Doing so means delaying treatment to those who are often in crisis and sometimes near death. If it were your son lying on that gurney in a crisis mode, would you feel quite so magnanimous? I think not.

  • troubador222

    3x, it sounds like we agree then on the core issue. (About emergency room treatment). I still stand by my statement though about the right targeting groups. I base that on listening to what is said and written by the right. Also being a Liberal, I fond my self and people who believe like I do often demonized as being anti American, which I take personally. When I hear someone is going to “take their country back” from me, I get defensive, considering it is my country which I love very much.

    .
    I will admit I have never been in LA, but I have been in the Central Valley area of California and also spent some time in Arizona, New Mexico and Nevada. Being from South Florida, I did not find things much different there than here. In Florida, we have large populations of people from all over Latin America, who are citizens. Good citizens I might add. Our newest Senator is of Hispanic heritage. Marco Rubio. Our former Governor Jeb Bush is married to a lady who I believe comes from South America. Any place you go in the Eastern US that has a large agricultural you find illegal immigrants working there. The large majority of them are doing jobs. Jobs that a lot of US citizens dont want to do. (When I was younger I tried picking oranges. It’s not very much fun. Its long hours based on payment by weight picked and people do not get wealthy doing it. Although the labor contractors who manage the laborers often do, but thats a whole different issue.)

    .
    I can tell you that here in Florida, it is very evident that there are not as many illegals here as there were before the crash. There is little work. Also agriculture in this area has taken a hit this year due to some early freezes, so that has added to the difference.

    .
    As an anecdotal aside, growing up in the citrus belt of Florida, it was always a joke how illegals were treated. At the end of the picking season, there would be large raids all through the area and the workers would be sent home, most to Mexico. A free trip I might add. That was par for the course fro most of my life. There has never been a good policy in place to deal with the problem and what policies have been there have always been governed by the economic realities of the labor required to get the crops in.

  • liberalmeltdown

    I know you weren’t replying to me, but I hope you don’t mind if I reply. You sound rational. Not trying to be a smart@@@, just saying that it is refreshing.
    .
    We used to have a very good policy. YOU DO NOT HIRE ILLEGALS…
    .
    I graduated HS in 74. It was a terrible economy. No jobs. I worked side by side with MIGRANT WORKERS. Note the difference. THEY had green cards. THEY were not illegals. THEY obeyed the rules. I stacked boxes of oranges right along side them. So much for jobs that Americans won’t do.

    .
    Florida is California 30-40 years ago. The elementary school my toe headed step son attended is 96 % non English speaking. I lived about half a block away. When an illegal gang member from a neighboring city shot my neighbor dead and wounded his son (they were Hispanic) in his front yard and drove away shooting down the street in the direction of the elementary school, we decided it was time to find another place to live. That was NOT the only incident that contributed to our decision. Being the only toe head blond in his school, our son was picked on by the majority, because he was different. So, don’t kid yourself; there are racists in all races.
    .
    I know, have known and will continue to know many Hispanics. What a shock. I grew up here.
    .
    Turning to labor. You seem to think that illegals, (used to be documented migrant workers) only pick crops in California. Oh no. When the housing market was booming, they did everything from framing to concrete, because one contractor would get greedy and hire illegals and outbid all the others…slippery slope.
    .
    There is NO agriculture in Los Angeles or the surrounding 70-80 mile radius to speak of anymore. Yet millions of illegal aliens live here. They ain’t pickin’ fruit.

  • jeriv

    @jtn1026: The funny/sad part is that if the illegal immigrant with the highly contagious and deadly disease doesn’t go to the ER because he fears being deported, and @hernandezusa’s family is one of those impacted by the sudden “unexplained” appearance of the disease ravaging his part of the woods, in his mind it will all be the government’s fault.
    .
    @hernandezusa would never agree or admit that he had anything to do with the fact that the guy who probably cuts his lawns (who was here illegaly regardless of whether they enforce the laws more stringently or not) didn’t get treatment due to @hernandezusa’s insistence that illegal immigrants shouldn’t get treated at the ER unless they then get deported. Yep, that deranged lunatic gardener was an evil lawbreaking fiend.
    .
    This whole ER medical treatment situation is in some ways sort of similar to the way those anti-vaccine nazis get other kids (and their own) killed due to their own kids never getting vaccines and then spreading what used to be controlled deadly diseases. Not the parent’s fault that all those kids died, of course. It’s the government’s fault…
    .
    freaks…

  • 3xfire3

    robbert5,
    .
    Oh yes I’m a “Racist” because I express concern for the poorest of our American citizens.
    .
    robbert, you are an idiot.
    .
    I have a multicultural family. My son in-law is black. I have 3 bi-racial granddaughters and 2 Hispanic grandchildren and 6 white grandchildren. I live in a small town of 17,000 with about 20% Hispanics who are almost all second and third generation American citizens.
    .
    Many of my best friends and church members are Americans of Hispanic ancestry.
    .
    Like so many brain dead liberals on the swamp you use the term Racist too often and don’t know the facts.

  • 3xfire3

    robbert5,
    .
    “No 3x, we are just tired having to reply to stupidity!”
    .
    Talk about being stupid. Only an idiot would can facts stupidity. As Forest Gump would say “you are the stupid one.”

  • 3xfire3

    ohiolibb,
    .
    “Really, 3x? I’m the hatemonger when you’re calling liberals evil?”
    .
    I don’t ever remember saying Liberals were Evil. Are you able to show one of my comments where I made that statement?
    If this is something you believe I have said in the past, could you show me a few examples?

  • 3xfire3

    I volunteer each Wednesday at a local soup kitchen. I work in the kitchen helping to prepare the food and then on the serving line. I get along very well with the people who come to eat at this location. In 2009 I was honored to be selected as the “Volunteer of the Year”.
    .
    I also work in the “Food Pantry” at our church where I fill food boxes and help pass out food to the poor of our community.
    .
    Now I know I’m just a selfish, old, uncaring, conservative, but I would really like to know what volunteer work some of you Liberals here on the Swamp are doing to help the poor in you communities.
    .
    Any of you that are doing volunteer work can simply leave a reply for me after this post.
    .
    It should be very interesting to see what volunteer work you are all doing to help the poor. Perhaps I will get some new ideas as to how I personally can do more good in my community.
    .
    I will assume that any Swamp liberal that doesn’t reply is not doing any volunteer work to help the poor.

  • earljr1

    I seriously doubt you will get any response, 3xfire. The liberals on this site are, for the most part, “takers”, instead of givers.
    They boast of their compassion for the poor, but few will lift a hand to help them.
    It is one thing to complain loudly, as they are prone to do, but another thing to actively engage in a helpful manner.
    Keep up the good work….this country needs more just like you…..doers, instead of talkers.

  • hippooath

    3x,
    .
    Age is irrelevant if it’s not followed by a sense of reality. Your constant rubberstamp of every single reality divorced rightwing opinion because it’s essentially ‘not liberal’ isn’t exactly a sharp logical scalpel. More like a a rubber club and a square peg hammered into a round smaller hole.
    .
    I’ve written this before, if your is wisdom is not self evident than no amount of bragging about it will change the lack of it.

  • ohiolibb

    3x. My apologies. I misread one of your earlier comments. You did not claim that liberals were evil.

  • troubador222

    3x, there were quite a few people here working in construction too who were likely illegals. It’s a two edged sword concerning the construction business. On one had, they filled a niche for labor that was in huge demand at the time. (And most of them work very hard, in my experience. I am in land surveying and spent a lot of years during the boom doing new construction surveying in residential market) On the other, because they are willing to work for cash in many cases and for lower wages, they tend to bring down the pay in the skilled labor market. It’s really classic supply and demand.

    .
    It is a complex problem. And yes there are gangs here in areas where illegals live. But there are also gangs in middle class areas consisting of white kids who were born here. Matter of fact there have been several horrible gang murders in my city committed by white gang members, one where two young men were tortured and then set on fire by middle class kids. My wife works in an area hospital and during the years we had many illegals here there was a large upswing in wounds treated there, but the vast majority of that violence was young men inflicting it on other young men in situations where they lived in overcrowded conditions and alcohol was usually a factor.

    My thoughts on the whole issue is I agree about securing the border, not only because of the movement of undocumented workers, but also the drug smuggling and illegal arms shipments, but also from a National Security standpoint. It just does not make sense in this day and age to have a border where anyone can cross. But I also think we have to deal with the people who are here without rounding them up or doing anything draconian like that. Some sort of path to citizenship is needed, and you can call that amnesty if you want, but I believe doing anything else is contrary to our values of freedom, as expressed in our Constitution. And if we want to make steps toward dealing with the problem, we are going to have to find a way to pay for it. Whats the answer? Higher taxes? Redistribution of existing resources? Perhaps both. It’s not going to be free. I’m not going to pretend to have an easy answer, because I dont see an easy answer.

    I do know if we continue just screaming at each other, the problem is never going to be solved.

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