Morning Must Reads: Unions

“Ezra Klein talks to former SEIU cheif Andy Stern”
.
Shouldn’t this have been titled “Skateboarder Klein gives labor a lap dance?”

Did anyone mention that WI governor Scott Walker is lying?

Walker contends he clearly “campaigned on” his union bargaining plan.
.
But Walker, who offered many specific proposals during the campaign, did not go public with even the bare-bones of his multi-faceted plans to sharply curb collective bargaining rights. He could not point to any statements where he did. We could find none either.
.
While Walker often talked about employees paying more for pensions and health care, in his budget-repair bill he connected it to collective bargaining changes that were far different from his campaign rhetoric in terms of how far his plan goes and the way it would be accomplished.
.
We rate his statement False.

How is dropping a decision to enforce a law setting “a dangerous precedent”?

Being a pundit means you never have to say you’re sorry.

You spend enough time talking to Cokie Roberts and Joe Klein about what Real Murkins think, you forget that people want a living wage and to live their lives out with dignity, and pretty soon you’re talking about the popularity of measures that poll just a few points above the crazification factor.

(title of the post: “If Halperin and Politico say you’re losing, you’re winning”)

An account of the Ohio lockout.

We slowly started up the stairs, and as the first of our group got to the top we were greeted by security. This was in an outdoor area; it was on the way from the parking garage to the outdoor entrance of the building. Yet we were stopped on a single flight of outdoor concrete steps and told we would have to turn back. When we got to the top of the stairs there was another delay as troopers told us no one was allowed to go in. More phone calls, this time around fifteen minutes.

Finally State Representative Teresa Fedor, the most fabulous person in the world, showed up, opened the doors, and told the troopers “This is the people’s house. Lobbyists use this door. Arrest me if you want.”

Dangerous precedent? Good grief you would think it had never happened before.

Back in 1996, Justice Department officials wrote a letter to Sen. Orrin Hatch explaining why they declined to defend another statute. As they explained in the letter, the Solicitor General has declined to defend laws passed by Congress in the past — including in 1946, 1963, 1979, 1980, 1983, 1988, 1990 and 1992.

In fact, when he was the nation’s solicitor general, now-Chief Justice John Roberts, declined to defend federal laws which set a preference for awarding broadcast licenses to entities with a certain level of minority ownership.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/as_doj_declines_to_defend_doma_congress_could_step_in.php

“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

Taking a step back, this is quite a negotiating strategy, isn’t it? The opening bid was, “Give us everything we want.” This was followed by, “Give us everything we want, or we’ll shut down the government.”
.
The new line is, “OK, let’s compromise. Give us everything we want on a prorated basis, or we’ll shut down the government.”
.
To call this a “compromise” is to strip the word of all meaning.
.
Let’s also note that the House Republicans’ figure is itself arbitrary. It’s not as if the GOP has identified $4 billion in waste they want to eliminate — they simply chose a number they thought sounded nice. There is no seriousness of thought or purpose here. Republicans haven’t even said what would be cut by $4 billion — they’re starting with a dubious answer, hoping to figure out the question later.

The effects of the media’s bias toward the sensational.

…the truth is that the public is being left with a lopsided view of the judiciary’s read on the law.

You could argue that if the Supreme Court will ultimately decide the fate of the law in any case, it doesn’t matter much if the public has a distorted picture of its legal predicament. But of course this does matter, because it’s unfolding in a political context. If people have an exaggerated sense of the law’s alleged unconstitutionality, it could contribute to the law’s unpopularity, which could in turn make the push for partial repeal or defunding of the law easier. That in turn could make it more likely that the law’s implementation could grow more chaotic. That could impact real people, and it’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility that it could impact the law’s fate before the highest court.

Again, it’s not hard to see why decisions against the Affordable Care Act are deemed more newsworthy. But it’s still unfortunate that the public is being left with a highly-distorted impression of what’s happening.

It’ll create jobs. Well it’ll destroy some first but it will magically create jobs later.

“The Housing Bubble and Negative Equity are a Major Predictor of State Budget Gaps, Not Unions.”

Amidst all the public debate about how states are being bled dry by militant public unions, you wouldn’t know that we just had a major housing bubble across the country followed by a financial system near-collapse and the most prolonged downturn since the Great Depression. Chris Hayes addressed this opportunism, the ignoring of the housing crisis to push long-standing right-wing priorities…

(with charts)

Freak,
.
Just admit, you hateall unions and all forms of democracy.
.
Your constant whining about people defending their first amendment rights to lawful assembly through the formation of unions is really annoyingly repetitive.

It’ll create jobs. Well it’ll destroy some first but it will magically create jobs later.
.
Not only that, but enacting the GOP’s budget slashing agenda in full – giving them everything they want – [could throw us back into a recession]:

The Republican plan to slash government spending by $61bn in 2011 could reduce US economic growth by 1.5 to 2 percentage points in the second and third quarters of the year, a Goldman Sachs economist has warned.
.
The note from Alec Phillips, a forecaster based in Washington, was seized in the ongoing US budget fight by Democrats as validating their argument that the legislation approved by the Republican-led House of Representatives last Saturday would do significant damage to the US recovery.

Let’s clear something up about this decision. It does not stop enforcement. The law will still be enforced until such time that SCOTUS finds it unconstitutional.

All it means that the DOJ will not defend the law based on section 3 suits. Two of which were pending appeal in the courts.

Congress is still free to mount a defense DOMA if they so choose.

Grap_crush,
.
Amazing as usual.
.
Thanks for the past few posts.
.
As you know, like many others, I write the most responses to things I disagree with and forget to add an occasional thank you.
.
So, thank you.
.
Unfounded, unreasonable talking points driven and indirectly or directly Rupert Murdoch funded or Koch brother’s funded wingnut troll attack begins in 5, 4, 3…..

“Remember the German economic boom of 2010?”

Germany’s economic growth surged in the middle of last year, causing commentators both there and here to proclaim that American stimulus had failed and German austerity had worked. Germany’s announced budget cuts, the commentators said, had given private companies enough confidence in the government to begin spending their own money again.
.
Well, it turns out the German boom didn’t last long. With its modest stimulus winding down, Germany’s growth slowed sharply late last year, and its economic output still has not recovered to its prerecession peak. Output in the United States — where the stimulus program has been bigger and longer lasting — has recovered. This country would now need to suffer through a double-dip recession for its gross domestic product to be in the same condition as Germany’s.
.
Yet many members of Congress continue to insist that budget cuts are the path to prosperity. The only question in Washington seems to be how deeply to cut federal spending this year. [...]
.
…no matter how morally satisfying austerity may be, it’s the wrong answer. Hoover’s austere instincts worsened the Depression. Roosevelt’s postelection reversal helped, but he also prolonged the Depression by raising taxes and cutting spending in 1937. Only the giant stimulus program known as World War II finally ended the Depression. When the private sector is hesitant to spend, the government has to — or no one will.
.
Our recent crisis serves up the same lesson. Germany isn’t even the best example. Its response to the crisis has had some successful features, like an hours-reduction program to minimize layoffs, and Germany’s turn to austerity has not been radical. Britain’s has been radical, with a tax increase having already taken effect and deep spending cuts coming. Partly as a result, Britain’s economy is now in worse shape than Germany’s.

To be fair, it’s probably unfair to disguise yourself as someone you’re not so you can pull info out of your interviewee. No matter how reprehensible his act(s) may be.
.
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/media/content/society-professional-journalists-criticizes-prank-call-editor-fooling-wisconsin-gov-scott-wa

The Onion for dessert.

“National Museum Of The Middle Class Opens In Schaumburg, IL”

Frankly, I think they’re selling us a load of baloney,” said laid-off textile worker Elsie Johnson, who visited the museum Tuesday with her five asthmatic children. “They expect us to believe the government used to help pay for college? Come on. The funniest exhibit I saw was ‘Visiting The Family Doctor.’ Imagine being able to choose your own doctor and see him without a four-hour wait in the emergency room. Gimme a friggin’ break!”

While some were incredulous, others described the Museum of the Middle Class as “a trip down memory lane.” William Harrison, a retired social worker with middle-class heritage, said he was moved to tears by several of the exhibits.

How do you run a church [albeit a dubious one] from a jail cell?
.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/02/24/texas.polygamist.jeffs/index.html?hpt=T2

Thanks, Grape_Crush, for continuing to post your informative and interesting links. They are the highlights of the MMRs.
.
BTW, I’m new as a commenter. I have been following this blog for years, but I rarely have time to log in and comments during the day when most of the action takes place. Lately, it seems that the blog has gotten overrun by very aggressive trolls, and several thoughtful commenters are turning away. Not a good trend.

The wisdom of a great American, relevant in our own time:

Fellow-Citizens of the Senate and House of Representatives:
.
In my present position I could scarcely be justified were I to omit raising a warning voice against this approach of returning despotism.
.
It is not needed nor fitting here that a general argument should be made in favor of popular institutions, but there is one point, with its connections, not so hackneyed as most others, to which I ask a brief attention. It is the effort to place capital on an equal footing with, if not above, labor in the structure of government. It is assumed that labor is available only in connection with capital; that nobody labors unless somebody else, owning capital, somehow by the use of it induces him to labor.
.
Now there is no such relation between capital and labor as assumed, nor is there any such thing as a free man being fixed for life in the condition of a hired laborer. Both these assumptions are false, and all inferences from them are groundless.
.
Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. Capital has its rights, which are as worthy of protection as any other rights. Nor is it denied that there is, and probably always will be, a relation between labor and capital producing mutual benefits. The error is in assuming that the whole labor of community exists within that relation. A few men own capital, and that few avoid labor themselves, and with their capital hire or buy another few to labor for them.
.
Again, as has already been said, there is not of necessity any such thing as the free hired laborer being fixed to that condition for life. Many independent men everywhere in these States a few years back in their lives were hired laborers. The prudent, penniless beginner in the world labors for wages awhile, saves a surplus with which to buy tools or land for himself, then labors on his own account another while, and at length hires another new beginner to help him. This is the just and generous and prosperous system which opens the way to all, gives hope to all, and consequent energy and progress and improvement of condition to all. No men living are more worthy to be trusted than those who toil up from poverty; none less inclined to take or touch aught which they have not honestly earned. Let them beware of surrendering a political power which they already possess, and which if surrendered will surely be used to close the door of advancement against such as they and to fix new disabilities and burdens upon them till all of liberty shall be lost.

.
http://www.infoplease.com/t/hist/state-of-the-union/73.html

President Abraham Lincoln (Republican), State of the Union, December 3, 1861.

This one’s simple, even for you, NFL. We are a nation of laws. If a law is bad, or needs to be changed, it is done through a legislative process, not at the president’s whim. When the president (or Chancellor, or Premier, or King) decides to disregard laws that they do not like, you end up with a Hitler, Stalin, Chavez, Quadaffi, or some other type of dictator/tyrant. Of course, it is looking more and more like Obama would fit quite well in that list. Or at least he’d like to.

And before you start citing all the times Republicans have done it, don’t bother. They were wrong too.

That’s the difference between an independent conservative and a liberal. I’ll be glad to point out and/or criticize and when anyone on my side is wrong, whereas liberals will immediately begin to defend anyone on their side, regardless of what they have done (depends on the meaning of the word “is” (Clinton), dosn’t matter that he was an Exalted Cyclops in the Klan (Byrd), etc.etc,etc) . Unless, of course, there are liberal talking points mandating that they be thrown under the liberal bus. Then it’s game-on for bashing fellow liberals too.

American -

You obviously don’t understand this move either.

First there are numerous cases of SCOTUS finding that a law written by Congress does not meet the Constitutional test. So it not only Congresses job to overturn a law.

Second enforcement does not stop, the law is still on the books. It just means the DOJ will not defend one section of it in the pending appeals. This move is certainly not without precedent.

In the end all this means is the the Constitutional question regarding DOMA will be heard probably sooner rather than later by SCOTUS.

Finally Congress is certainly free to defend it in the courts of they so choose.

awb, the DOJ has twice defended DOMA and lost in the Second Circuit. It is at the discretion of the DOJ to not argue a case they feel they cannot win. This has happened before, and will happen again, and is part of the design of the justice system.
.
Nothing unseemly or unconstitutional about it, unless you’re looking to score partisan points.

The Democratic Party is not your father’s Party, it is not the party of the middle class. It’s usefulness to stop the GOP from raping the country has come to and end.
.
There is a peep here and there, but in general I do not hear from them; gutless wonders.

Lincoln was a commie?
.
/snark

‘What MM and jsfox said, awb.

Grape is good indeed, Bluesuede – welcome.
.
My guess is that other posters grew weary of excessive postings based loosely on facts. Now since today is Thursday, on this day of the week some of us have made a vow to not be snarky and accept the other side’s witticisms at face value.

Someone here said before–
Never let a good crisis go to waste.

Welcome to the swamp blueswede04.
.
nfl, if I couldn’t be snarky I couldn’t post. OT, but I’m soooo glad I was on midnight last night. They found a body at work on the afternoon shift. By the time I got there it had been taken away.

BTW, I’m new as a commenter.
.
Thanks for the compliment (and thanks to everyone else,) but it’s unnecessary. Just return the favor and let everyone know what you think is interesting/amusing…
.
…and welcome to Swampland; please keep your arms and legs inside the ride at all times and wait until the car comes to a complete stop before releasing your seatbelt.

grape_crush, add my thanks to the others for your posts and links.

When Boehrner took over as House leader, he made a comment that his first priority was “jobs, jobs, jobs”. Stupid us, we thought he meant creating jobs.

No, first they had to do their change the country into theocracy thing and now their job-killing, America destroying, ceding leadership to any other country but us, deficit reduction of the things Republicans can’t stand because they are helpful to the average citizen bill.

Nice name! We can play that funny name game also. We learned from the pros-clear skies to pollute teh skies, etc.

Thanks for this, grape crush, I read this yesterday and hoped someone would drag it over to the Swamp. Leonhardt is coming close to overtaking Krugman and Stiglitz as the most compelling economic writer working today – tellingly, all of them are in rough agreement with one another. Now, how will our friends in the ‘clear water” school of Economics attempt to explain away this contrast in nation’s fortunes? On the face of it, these results appear to bear out fairly accurately what Keynsian economic theory would predict would happen; but I am guessing the Party of Magical Thinking is busily working up their counter-narrative somewhere in the halls of the Hoover Institute even as we write.

Easy on the cycnicism there, allthings. Can yuo really say that the Democrats are not trying to stop the Republicans from doing their worst? Even though the Stimulus was not what we might have hoped, we are doing siginificantly better than, ay Germany or Britain (see above) and the folks in Wisconsin might disagree. Hyperbole does not become us.

67% Disapprove of Legislators Fleeing Wisconsin to Avoid Vote
.
Half of America’s voters favor public sector unions for government workers, but they strongly oppose the tactic by Wisconsin state senators to flee their state to prevent a vote that would limit the rights of such unions.
.
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that only 25% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of this tactic, while 67% disapprove. State legislators in Indiana have used the same approach to avoid a vote in their state. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
.
Sizable majorities of Republicans and voters not affiliated with either major party reject such a strategy. Democrats are fairly evenly divided, with 48% approving and 44% disapproving.
.
Voters continue to be closely divided over the question of public employee unions themselves. Fifty percent (50%) at least somewhat favor such unions, while 44% oppose them. These figures include 25% who Strongly Favor the unions and 25% who are Strongly Opposed.
.
Last month in a survey of American Adults as opposed to Likely Voters, 45% supported public employee unions, while 45% opposed them. Support for the unions was down from 53% in May of last year. .
Eighty-one percent (81%) of Democrats now favor public employee unions, while 66% of Republicans and 54% of unaffiliated voters oppose them.
.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/february_2011/67_disapprove_of_legislators_fleeing_wisconsin_to_avoid_vote

What else ya got?

Obama’s Leadership Ratings Fall To A New Low
.
President Obama’s job approval ratings have taken a dive this week in the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll, and the number of voters who give him favorable ratings for leadership has fallen to its lowest level since he took office in January 2009.
.
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that just 37% of Likely U.S. Voters now say the president is doing a good or excellent job as a leader. Forty percent (40%) rate his performance as poor. (To see survey question wording, click here.)
.
Last month, right after the president’s State of the Union speech, 47% of voters viewed his leadership positively. At that time, the number who gave Obama poor marks (33%) fell to its lowest level since September 2009.
.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/february_2011/obama_s_leadership_ratings_fall_to_a_new_low

More toilet paper available on aisles 15 and 16.

It strikes me that as the GOP moves to the right, extreme right I must say, The Democratic Party responds by moving right to fill the void.. We are witnessing things being discussed that 30 years ago would have never even approached national politics. We are in short headed in the wrong direction.
.
While we sit hear and argue with the likes of Rusty and Free, we are accomplishing nothing. The real fight is over the direction of the Democratic Party, not the l GOP.
.
People attack my cynicism all the while I witness everyone else’s. The fight is not stopping the GOP, the fight is what are we doing? The GOP should be trying to stop us.
.
Just saying.

afguy,
.
I’m always amazed at how Liberals can’t handle the truth. They always want to shoot the messenger.
.
Even Nate Silver, the admitted liberal pollster, know on the payroll of the Liberal NYT, in his last poll reviews from the 2010 elections, rated Rasmussen in the top 15% of polling organizations for accuracy.
.
His last evaluation showed Rasmussen with a 3% error rate and stated, it was his belief that their polling method tended to give a right lean of about 3%.
.
The top polling organization had an error rate of a little over 1%. That means Rasmussen was off 2% from the top polling organization.
.
For you and other Liberals to keep claiming Rasmussen’s polls are inaccurate only shows your ignorance and inability to face reality.
.
Keep up the ignorance. You will help your Great Leader and the Democrat Party lose in 2012.

Public employee unions coughed up $171 million for Democrats in 2010 alone. Can anyone say conflict of interest. Democrat politicians, who are supposed to represent the public, are wholly owned subsidiaries of the public sector unions.

Agreed. More, better Democrats.

“How is dropping a decision to enforce a law setting “a dangerous precedent”?
.
Seriously? If you have to ask how not enforcing a law is a dangerous precedent, you are pretty clueless. But its really not the first law Obama/Holder have stopped enforcing a lot of laws.

The truth is while we lowered the tax rate for the wealthy, That is made it cheaper for them to access the services of the Government, we are lowering the pay and benefits of those who provide those services.
.
If that is not a tax on those individuals I would like to know what is?
.
Where is my Party?

blueswede04@2.2,

I am fairly new here too, swede. I must say that libs here are about the most whiny bunch that I have ever come across. They spend more time complaining about other posters than they do on the issues. It’s like being back in grade school.

nflfoghorn@3,

It is not the place of the Executive Branch to choose which laws not to enforce. What if a future Justice Department decided to ignore anti-discrimination laws?

“you forget that people want a living wage and to live their lives out with dignity,”
.
And flat screen TVs,cell phones, ipods, Xboxes. The standard of living of the “poor” here far exceeds anywhere in the world. While there are still plenty of people who need help lets not pretend that it’s Calcutta as the Dems like to pretend. BTW much of the problem of homeless and no HC are the direct result of their policies, but you won’t catch Cokie talking about that

allthings…@19,
.
“Where is my party?”
.
It would appear that they have fled the state. It’s anyone’s guess as to what they are doing.

You do realize that you just whined about people whining?

…the most whiny bunch that I have ever come across. They spend more time complaining about other posters…
.
Then, by your own criteria (complaining about other commenters), you’re a whinger, paulejb.
.
Too funny.

Not “more, better Democrats,” but “more liberal Democrats.”
.
More Democrats the likes of Ben Nelson or Mary Landrieu to ally legislatively with the White House make the situation worse for the better (liberal) Democrats, and for the country as a whole.

Not Rasmussen again.

Just a reminder before you strain yourselves with hyperbolic plaints about the alleged threat to unions and democracy.
.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2011/02/20/why_fdr_warned_against_public_unions_250811.html

Not Rasmussen again.
.
They’re a consistently unreliable outlier, according to Nate Silver:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/rasmussen-polls-were-biased-and-inaccurate-quinnipiac-surveyusa-performed-strongly/
.
Rasmussen’s polls have come under heavy criticism throughout this election cycle, including from FiveThirtyEight. We have critiqued the firm for its cavalier attitude toward polling convention. Rasmussen, for instance, generally conducts all of its interviews during a single, 4-hour window; speaks with the first person it reaches on the phone rather than using a random selection process; does not call cellphones; does not call back respondents whom it misses initially; and uses a computer script rather than live interviewers to conduct its surveys. These are cost-saving measures which contribute to very low response rates and may lead to biased samples.
.
Rasmussen also weights their surveys based on preordained assumptions about the party identification of voters in each state, a relatively unusual practice that many polling firms consider dubious since party identification (unlike characteristics like age and gender) is often quite fluid.

The Governator has a message for paulejb:
.

stuartzechman@14.5,
.
“…better [liberal] Democrats”
.
Isn’t that an oxymoron?

“The Republican plan to slash government spending by $61bn in 2011 could reduce US economic growth by 1.5 to 2 percentage points in the second and third quarters of the year, a Goldman Sachs economist has warned”
.
As the left does its typical victory lap without a clue why looks look at this revelation. GDP is around $14.87 trillion. Let’s take off 1,5% in 3Q and 2.0% in 4Q. In dollars that comes to $22 billion in 3Q and $30 billion in 4Q or total $ 52 billion less than what the deficit would be cut. Which if one were not fallowing liberal logic it would reduce GDP, not turn GDP negative. This is the same stupidity that the left uses with budget “cuts”. If the increase is 8% and is “cut” to 5% they view it as catastrophic.
.
I have not seen the full analysis yet but there is no mention of the benefits of those cuts like reduce burrowing costs.
.
But it also piques one interest about the stimulus. If $61 billion in cuts drags GDP by 1.5-2% wouldn’t that imply that GDP growth from $786 billion should have been12 times that? Or was the stimulus just a waste of money? It seems you can’t have it both ways.
.
Also, not much has been discussed about other assumptions. Like the assumptions GS used when they were predicting 3+% growth back when th economy was tanking.

I would imagine you could show correlation to the amount of daily whining by the left to the housing bubble. From 2000 to 2008 the whining and articles and commentary about Republicans went up exponentially. One can easily correlate that to the housing bubble and budget gap as well. So I guess the cause of the housing bubble and the state budget gap.

More fun with numbers

On the contrary, I would argue that we are seeing things that were discussed 30 years ago, in the campaign of Ronald Reagan, although this generation of true believers is taking things to levels that perhaps even he might have had a problem with. As for the Democratic Party, it has always been the home of quite of few conservatives, from the classic old southern lions like Stennis to northern ethnic pols like Ed King and Frank Rizzo (the original Richard Daley, for that matter). The Democratic Party has always been, and for the foreseeable future will continue to be, a center-left coalition that, for the most part, reflects the populations of the states they represent. Your problem is less with the make up of the democratic Party and more with the make up of the United States of America, in which real liberals simply do not exist in what you might call critical mass numbers. Certain precincts of New York, California, Massachusetts, yes. But to the extent that the balance of power is in places like, well, Wisconsin that are fundamentally polarized between the center and the right, the Democratic Party can only be where it is. That may change in the coming years as the older genration gets slowly replaced by a more open minded younger gneeration, but the change is going to be slow. in the meantime, man up and deal with the situation on the ground.

grape_crush@2,
.
What’s the point of concessions from public sector unions if the next time that Democrats gain power they give them all back to their true masters?
.
Both FDR and George Meany spoke of the danger of collective bargaining with public sector unions.

The Al-Queda Democratic party. First we have the state senators from the fine states of WI and IN colluding with public unions to bomb the taxpayer before they “cut & run” to a cave across state lines.
.
Now we have a White House that has lied about transparency and lobbyist since well forever.

What we have is a party that is not only dishonest but are cowards.

Caught between their boss’ anti-lobbyist rhetoric and the reality of governing, President Barack Obama’s aides often steer meetings with lobbyists to a complex just off the White House grounds — and several of the lobbyists involved say they believe the choice of venue is no accident.

It allows the Obama administration to keep these lobbyist meetings shielded from public view — and out of Secret Service logs kept on visitors to the White House and later released to the public.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/50081.html#ixzz1Eu6kEr5Y

pintertwo@9.2,
.
That would be the new mayor of Chicago, pintor.

You have but then you have lied about pretty much everything that has transpired in WI while you were aided and abetted by false publications that you felt compelled to repeat.
.
Repeating lies don’t make them true and you calling someone a liar is comical but then liberals are a laughable lot.

“man up and deal with the situation on the ground.”
.
That is it man up? What load of crap is that? Deal with the situation on the ground? Why I want to CHANGE the situation on the ground; that is how it should be dealt with. Not accepted but, changed.
.
Don’t give me that Man up crap again It has nothing to do with being manly.

What’s the point of concessions…
.
What does that have to do with Walker lying?
.
I mean, nice try at changing the topic, but that’s too obvious.
.
You have but then you..
.
The Governator has a message for freewelcher:
.

gentlemen@2.8, 2.9 & 2.10,
.
I am not complaining, gentlemen. I am merely making an observation. How can I complain when libs always meet the low expectations I have for them.

“No men living are more worthy to be trusted than those who toil up from povert”
.
Somehow I don;t think Lincoln meant that those who “toil up” were meant to be the recipient of wealth re-distribution through confiscating funds from working tax payers. I also doubt if he thought those shuffling papers at the DMV were the people toiling up from poverty but those who performed manual labor like blacksmiths or farmers.
.
Lincoln was also someone who was “home schooled”, something not highly regarded by the teachers union

@2.11 Paulejb
.
What is the point of having unions if they are not allowed to bargain on behalf of their members? That is by definition what unions do.
.
Most countries in Europe, including Sweden, have strong public unions. It doesn’t seem to be affecting educational outcomes negatively.

afguy@17,
.
If you don’t like Rasmussen, try Quinnipiac.
.
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1318.xml?RealeaseID=1560

blueswede@2.15,
.
Your argument is with FDR and George Meany. They saw the inevitable conflicts of interest if public sector unions were to bargain with the people that they put in office.
.
There is no doubt that the states in dire straits financially are the ones controlled by public sector unions. There is a limit to how much you can abuse the taxpayer.

Since when are Union members NOT part of the public?

nflfoghorn@12,

More to the point. How do you run a State from hiding in another State?

Paul Dirks@18.1,
.
When they use their power over elected officials to bilk the taxpayers who earn less than they do.

This is the threat that the unions and Team Donkey fear:

Between 1961 and 2008, spending per student in the U.S. increased 263 percent (adjusted for inflation). Are students today 263 percent smarter or better educated than they were in 1961?

In 1979, Jimmy Carter established the U.S. Department of Education. President Ronald Reagan’s subsequent effort to close that ill-conceived bureaucracy was vigorously opposed by Democrats.

The department’s mission was, ostensibly, to promote student achievement in preparation for global competitiveness. Yet since its formation 32 years ago, student achievement compared to other nations has declined. In fact, according to a 2009 OECD Programme for International Student Assessment, which ranks students among 64 developed nations, the U.S. ranked 17th in reading, 23rd in science, and 30th in math.

Unions clearly understand the strategic import of the battle now underway in Wisconsin. “If we lose in Wisconsin, it’s going to be a domino effect,” proclaimed Teamster John Hennelly. “This is just the opening salvo in a war.”

Democrats also know this battle is critical to the perpetuation of political dynasties.

PatriotPost

So today its “when aren’t they part of the public”
.
Yesterday grape nuts and others were pushing the laughable lie that the unions could not contribute to campaigns.
.
Everyday the arguments getting thinner and more laughable.

“Where is my Party?”
.
Getting their Bin Laden on. Threatening the US taxpayers while hiding in a cave!

Actually, i think the difference between the US educational system and the European one is more a matter of population. No country in Europe has the population that the US does. Ergo it’s cheaper to educate there, and have a higher educated population as a result. The US has more people, which you would think would mean more tax money to be used – but the money isn’t there because of tax breaks (how does the top 1% of the population making 24% of all the money in the economy make sense?) and defense spending. Not that there shouldn’t be defense spending; it’s just that the Europeans spend less on defense than the US does.
It’s how you allocate your resources.

patricksartor@1.1,
.
All unions do not hold the power that public sector unions do.
.
http://townhall.com/columnists/michaelbarone/2011/02/24/public_unions_force_taxpayers_to_fund_dems/page/2

It’s interesting that Republicans say we can not spend ourselves out of a recesssion. And yet that is exactly what happened to end the Depression. RWers argue that it was’t a jobs program that ended the Depression, but it was WWII. But WWII was the biggest jobs program the federal government had ever instigated. My BIL made a comment a few months back that war is good for the economy. While that may have been true in the past, it no longer is. The reason is because prior to WWII this country wasn’t in a constant state of “war readiness” the way we are today. When the private sector isn’t willing or is unable to invest in putting people to work, it is the government to get the ball rolling, eventually those government jobs will lead to increased demand and private sector jobs appear out of a necessity.

@free: There is a slight difference between being poor and living beneath the poverty level. I know a lot of poor and many of them don’t even have substantial housing, let along flat screen tvs, ipods, etc. I also know a lot of people who live below the poverty line–which for a family of four is somewhere in the neighborhood of $30,000. In fact, my job actually has me below the federal poverty line, but I wouldn’t call myself poor. For some being poor is a state of mind; if you think you are poor you will always “be poor” no matter how much money you have. For others, money isn’t an issue as long as you can pay your bills and maybe go to see a movie a couple times a year.

“It’s how you allocate your resources.”
.
Agreed. In addition, I think a big part of the problem is the way education is financed in this country. In the Ohio town where i live, schools in Posh District A have all the resources and amenities they could dream of, and schools in Rundown District B make do with crumbs. They shouldn’t be held to the same standard, but they are, and federal funding is not nearly enough to correct the inbalance. I don’t see how anybody can argue that this system provides “equal opportunity” for all.

Support by Republicans for efforts to limit the power of public employee unions is lukewarm, according to a new USA TODAY/Gallup Poll, as several Republican governors push such efforts in Wisconsin, Ohio, New Jersey, Iowa and other states.

About half of Republicans support reducing pay, benefits or collective-bargaining rights of government employees. By contrast, Democrats and independents strongly oppose such moves. The only income group supporting limits on union rights were those earning $90,000 or more a year, the poll found.

“The public doesn’t accept the idea of the public sector unions as being the big villains in the story,” says economist Dean Baker

.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-02-24-wisconsinpoll24_ST_N.htm
.

MADISON, Wis. — Americans strongly oppose laws taking away the collective bargaining power of public employee unions, according to a new USA TODAY/Gallup Poll. The poll found 61% would oppose a law in their state similar to such a proposal in Wisconsin, compared with 33% who would favor such a law.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-02-22-poll-public-unions-wisconsin_N.htm
.
There is not a great difference between private sector and public sector unions in both pay and benefits nor in the way the public perceives them.
.
It comes down to the difference between being liberal and being conservative.
.
Liberals will tell you that if given a chance to earn $25 or get $15 in government support, all people capable of doing so would chase down the opportunity to earn the $25 while conservatives would tell you that people would rather do nothing or fake illness for $5 in aid rather than work for $50.
.
Liberals will tell you that, on average and any organization representing the whole group in elections at least 90% of all workers would gladly do a job well for $25 per hour than do a job poorly for $40 per hour. Conservatives would tell you the opposite. Conservatives will tell you that people prefer to do a job poorly.
.
Statistics when you look around the world and see that Germans, the best industrial power of the developed world has union members on the board of directors and all other developed countries have, far more generous unemployment and welfare benefits than the US yet similar percentages of people living on such benefits all lean very strongly towards confirming liberal thinking and disproving conservative thinking.
.
Eventually people will see past the smoke and mirrors of today’s right wing and vote out the Koch brothers and Rupert Murdoch employees using government as a personal toy the Tea Party and far right politicians.
.
Am eager to see that day come.

Stuart, more better Democrats = more liberal Democrats. Obviously.

From NFL’s article @ 2.1:
.

But the Society of Professional Journalists has nevertheless criticized the action of Ian Murphy, the editor of the Buffalo Beast website in New York, for lying to Walker when he called and claimed to be David Koch, a billionaire businessman and campaign donor. Murphy engaged Walker in an informal conversation in which the governor compared his stand — which he has said publicly is aimed at balancing the state’s budget — to Ronald Reagan’s stand against the federal air traffic controllers’ union.

.
I do agree with the journalist’s association and NFL that it was an unfair way of doing things but bringing it to people’s attention that this Tea Party “grassroots movement” is astroturf created by Koch industries was good.
.
He should have found a less deceptive way of proving this.

“Your argument is with FDR and George Meany.”
.
Resurrecting words and even concepts of days gone by and twisting them around is a new right wing art form.
.
You wouldn’t ask Sir Isac Newton about the specifics of going to the moon despite his very obvious brilliance and you wouldn’t ask FDR about the impact of public sector unions which formed ten to twenty five years after his death.
.
FDR isn’t a deity.
.
The only deity in the White House was Ronald Reagan. JFK worship and respect for FDR don’t even come close.
.
FDR was, also, incredibly wrong and, clearly immoral for the concentration of the Japanese Americans into camps and not taking far more action to support Civil Rights. No self respecting person who calls themselves Liberal or progressive would say that FDR was right in either of those matters, either.
.
You know, the Great Gipper, nine months out of the white house flapped his arms and flew from California to Berlin. Then he huffed and he puffed and he blew down the Berlin Wall.
.
Two years after that, the Great Gipper stamped his feet in California so hard that it caused an earthquake that shook in Moscow and smashed down the Kremlin .

“It is not the place of the Executive Branch to choose which laws not to enforce.”
.
The law is face repeal.
.
A fair comparison would be if Mississippi should have enforced Jim Crow laws when they were being appealed before the Supreme Court. But that is a loaded example.

Yet another load of twaddle for Pennsylvania. First, I don’t believe the 263% cost increase fro a second. Second, although each student may not be 263% smarter, a much higher percentage is in school – in the mill town that I grew up in (back in the ’70s), roughly half of the high school teens did not granduate – all too many quit and went to ework for corning or Hasbro or whoever. Today, those kids stay in school – there are no jobs at the plants for the adults much less the teens. Plus, in order to be competitive today, a student has to learn much more , how to do minimal programming of a computer, among other things. There is also the matter of the fact that school systems these have to actually pay a living wage much more frequently than they used to – school systems can no longer exploit an educated woman who is desperate to get out of the house, which all too many did back in the day.

Finally, and this leads to a whole huge topic, the students of this generation are much more “sorted out”. The student population of a well to do suburb is wildly different from the student population of those mill towns and rural communities. Crushed under the weight of declining employment possibilities, families in many cases do not provide the support to their kids that they once did. The job of schools in many, many districts is far more difficult than it was in 1960.

To some extent, however, what’s the point? Republicans refuse to believe what science tells them anyway (that we are running out of fossil fuels and overheating the earth), they refuse to believe the evidence of economic woe caused by their policies, their budget approach defies math and God knows they have not the smallest understanding of history. As for English, well, ladies and gentlemen, if the trolls are any indication, it is dying a horrible death.

pushing the laughable lie that the unions could not contribute to campaigns.
.
Nope, that’s not what I posted. You’re wrong again, freewelcher.
.
Oh, and Dr. Cox has a special message for you, freeper:
.

the above was a response to 20.1

A politician changing his stance of how to solve a problem is hardly a lie although you would declare it so. Again you stating your lies over and over doesn’t make them true. What does it have to do with this? It is not changing the subject it merely points out that any opinion you post may be a lie. Your judgment is nothing but one of a whining sniveling liberal who is not getting his way and being called out on the fact that while you quickly point out what you think is a lie, it is your MO.

“There is a slight difference between being poor and living beneath the poverty level.”
.
I would agree. The problem is the left uses them both as props when tey want to push a new spending program.

Um correction:
.
the law is facing repeal.
.
Writing while working can cause grammatical errors.

How about a correlation in terms of IQ points the intelligence of commentary to the unemployment rate.
.
There were some bright criticisms of the Bush administration, but, after Obama came into office, the intelligence the commentary plummeted.
.
So, right wing stupid comments are the cause of unemployment.

“Somehow I don;t think Lincoln meant that those who “toil up” were meant to be the recipient of wealth re-distribution through confiscating funds from working tax payers”
.
Lincoln introduced the first income tax known to conservatives as, ” forced wealth redistribution”.
.
I think, as usual, you are totally wrong, Freak.

Once upon a time there were News Sources:
.
CBS, NBC, ABC, Time Magazine, The Wall Street Journal and many local, privately and independently owned newspapers.
.
Liberals shouted these news sources were far too right wing and conservatives shouted that they were far too left wing.
.
Then came the consolidation of AM radio stations and, a few years later, Fox “News”.
.
Now there is the mainstream reality and the right wing reality, down to polls.
.
Places like this blog the two worlds clash.
.
From the mainstream side, liberals, a few moderates and a few old fashioned reasonable conservatives together have dozens of ideas of what is going on in the world.
.
On the other side, a Republican Party/Tea Party/Rupert Murdoch/ Koch Brothers talking points own the day.
.
With Rasmussen polls, the right now has it’s own statistics for their alternate universe.
.
Is a few weeks shy of 40 too young to be nostalgic for “the good ole days”?
.
Damn, when I was 25, outside some people who listened to those new guys on AM radio, Republicans had to debate with facts.
.
That was way back in 1996. Things were different then. The cell phones were much larger and didn’t have internet compatibility….(outside of that, the typical changes in the music scene and a few social media websites, I don’t see much of a difference between 1996 and now.)

“Threatening the US taxpayers while hiding in a cave!”
.
They are just with Dick Cheney at “ an undisclosed location“

What is the truth about the accuracy of the Rasmussen Polls?
.
Maybe it’s time that Liberals accept the truth and facts and stop lying about the Rasmussen Polls.
.
The following is an analysis of the accuracy of all the major polling organizations by Nate Silvers. Nate is a self-admitted liberal and is known as probably the best poll analysis in the country. Nate is now employed by the NYT.
.
Nate rates each polling organization based on PIE [pollsters induced errors].
.
The top polling organization was the Field Poll with a PIE rating of +1.05%.
.
Gallup’s PIE rating was +1.66%.
.
Rasmussen’s PIE rating was +1.74%.
.
Zogby’s PIE rating was +2.39%
.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/search/label/pollster%20ratings

Again grape nuts you repeating your lies doesn’t make them the truth. You believing unions don’t contribute to campaigns makes you only a liar but gullible and pretty dumb
.

“Currently, $10 of each active member’s NEA dues is allocated to these special accounts. The more than $20 million collected each year is then disbursed to state affiliates and political issue campaigns – such as last year’s SQ 744 in Oklahoma. A portion of the money also pays for state and national media buys to support the union’s agenda.”

When they use their power over elected officials to bilk the taxpayers who earn less than they do.

It’s attitudes like this that make me think that the right’s cultural war is now a class war.

It’s as if corporations don’t donate heavily to political candidates and don’t spend millions to lobby for for changes in laws that will help their businesses, and don’t get huge concessions in forms of tax breaks and other incentives that they don’t force from the position of having the money to leverage it.

But if an organization that represents the middle class does it they need to be repressed.Civil servants aren’t welfare recipients who don’t contribute to society, they perform vital services so society is stable enough so business can flourish. Does anybody really think that business can thrive in a world where the government doesn’t have an entrenched civil bureaucracy? Only people who have simplified world views believe it.

freeper: Sometimes your stupidity is too egregious to ignore. Lincoln was home schooled? Can you tell us why?

I think they pay our rw friends to post their bogus polls here.

If you doubt income inequality take a look at the charts included in this article. I wish I could copy them to this site. They are worth a long look.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph
.
How Rich Are the Superrich?
.
A huge share of the nation’s economic growth over the past 30 years has gone to the top one-hundredth of one percent, who now make an average of $27 million per household. The average income for the bottom 90 percent of us? $31,244.
.
A Harvard business prof and a behavioral economist recently asked more than 5,000 Americans how they thought wealth is distributed in the United States. Most thought that it’s more balanced than it actually is. Asked to choose their ideal distribution of wealth, 92% picked one that was even more equitable. (see chart)
.

Why Washington is closer to Wall Street than Main Street.
Median Net Worth of American Families: $120,000
Median Net Worth of Congress Members: $912,000
(See Charts)
.
Other Charts:
Who’s Winning
Average Pay CEOs/Workers
Millionaire’s Tax Rate Then and Now
Share of Federal Tax Revenue
How much income have you given up for the top 1 percent?

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/huckabee-eliminate-government-unions-and-slash-entitlements-for-poor-public-servants-like-me.php?ref=fpb
.
Ole Huck says:
.
Eliminate Government Unions And Slash Entitlements For Poor Public Servants Like Me

1981: Ronald Reagan Supports Solidarity Union and Right to Strike
.

For the crazy reactionary right wing file:
.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/rick-santorum-the-crusades-get-a-bad-rap.php?ref=fpb
.
Rick Santorum: The Crusades Get A Bad Rap!
.

Referring to the “American left,” Santorum observed: “They hate Western civilization at the core. That’s the problem.” Sanoturm also suggested that American involvement in the Middle East is part of our “core American values.”

The Crusades were religiously sanctioned military campaigns waged in Europe during the Middle Ages and pre-dated the emergence of the United States by a few centuries. The original goal was to recapture Jerusalem from Muslim rule, though along the way the Roman Catholic forces massacred thousands of Jews, among others.

.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/02/hey-the-crusades-werent-that-bad.html

Enflamed by hate-filled sermons, Crusaders massacred Jewish communities in Europe on their way to the Middle East and sacked and murdered some of the Christian communities they found in the Levant as well. The victory of the First Crusade culminated in the mass murder of all non-Christians in Jerusalem and brought to a temporary end the Jewish presence in the city.

PS grape_crush. Nice reference to The Princess Bride, always appreciated.

Think any infinitely wise RW trolls will note the irony of St. Ron supporting Solidarity vs. firing the air traffic controllers?

Thanks apr.
.
I saw this related report recently:
.
http://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.21.1.3
.
Interesting, but not as easily digestible as your link. From the conclusion:
.
“(T)he progressivity of the U.S. federal tax system at the top of the income distribution has declined dramatically… This dramatic drop in progressivity at the upper end of the income distribution is due primarily to a drop in corporate taxes and to a lesser extent estate and gift taxes, both of which fall on capital income, combined with a sharp change in the composition of top incomes away from capital income and toward labor income. The reduction in top marginal individual income tax rates has contributed only marginally to the decline of progressivity of the federal tax system, because with various deductions and exemptions, along with favored treatment for capital gains, the average tax rate paid by those with very high income levels has changed much less over time than the top marginal rates…
.
..the most dramatic changes in federal tax system progressivity almost always take place within the top 1 percent of income earners, with relatively small changes occurring below the top percentile. For example, many of the recent tax provisions that are currently hotly debated in Congress, such as whether there should be a permanent reduction in tax rates for capital gains and dividends, or whether the estate tax should be repealed, affect primarily the top percentile of the distribution—or even just an upper slice of the top percentile. This pattern strongly suggests that, in contrast to the standard political economy model, the progressivity of the current tax system is not being shaped by the self-interest of the median voter.”
.
———-
.
..this is why the wealthy invest in think-tanks.

One can hope but not likely.