Morning Must Reads: Limit

“…it is a limit on the ability top [sic] pay obligations already incurred”
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You mean TO pay?

I suppose it doesn’t get much more “un-civil” than this: Dem Rep to unions: Time to get ‘bloody’
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“A Democratic Congressman from Massachusetts is raising the stakes in the nation’s fight over the future of public employee unions, saying emails aren’t enough to show support and that it is time to “get a little bloody.”
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“I’m proud to be here with people who understand that it’s more than just sending an email to get you going. Every once and awhile you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary,” Rep. Mike Capuano (D-Ma.) told a crowd in Boston on Tuesday rallying in solidarity for Wisconsin union members.”

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Now we shall wait and see if the media comes down just as hard on this guy and others who have expressed similar statements as they did with the Tea Party a few months back.
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Don’t hold your breath.

Scott Walker get’s punked

Dueling Dimwits : Democrats, Republicans in Budget Standoff as Shutdown Looms
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“Congressional Republicans and Democrats are preparing dueling plans to avert a U.S. government shutdown early next month as both sides refuse to budge so far in their standoff over spending cuts.
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Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada said he will bring up a temporary spending measure next week to keep the government operating at current levels into early April and buy time for talks on a longer-term plan.
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Democrats oppose the House Republicans’ spending plan, passed Feb. 19, saying its $61 billion in cuts will harm the economy and the nation’s security. The White House says President Barack Obama would veto the measure, which would fund the government through Sept. 30.”

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Pass it already. Let the Dems in the Senate either reject it, or pass it. Then let Obambi veto it as he says he will. I say call his bluff.

Hmm embed didn’t work.

So here the web site;

http://www.rumproast.com/index.php/site/comments/koch_on_the_line_gov._scott_walker_punked/

PRINCETON, NJ — Residents of Hawaii gave native son President Barack Obama the highest average 2010 job approval rating (66%) of any of the 50 states, surpassed only by the 84% Obama received in the District of Columbia. Obama’s lowest average state approval rating in 2010 was 28% in Wyoming.
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Surprise, surprise!!
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DC and Hawaii: Other States Saying “No Thanks”
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Obama’s overall average approval rating in 2010 was 47%, down 11 percentage points from the 58% he recorded in his first calendar year in office. For purposes of this state-by-state analysis, Obama’s average is calculated for the calendar year, and is therefore slightly different than the yearly average calculated beginning with his inauguration on January 20, 2009.

When Will It Hit $100 / Barrel? Predictions are oil will be at minimum $125 / barrel or $4.00 / gallon gas by this summer
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Can you afford it? Can this economy afford it?

Priorities? GOP Governors Shift Burden To Poor, Middle Class To Pay For Tax Breaks For Rich, Corporations

State budgets across the country are in disarray as a weak economy, the end of tens of billions in Recovery Act funds, and a GOP-led House that is pushing for deep cuts to many programs that benefit state and local governments set the stage for massive in shortfalls over the next two years. Instead of making the tough choices necessary to help their states weather the current crisis with some semblance of the social safety net and basic government services intact, Republican governors are instead using it as an opportunity to advance several longtime GOP projects: union busting, draconian cuts to social programs, and massive corporate tax breaks. These misplaced priorities mean that the poor and middle class will shoulder the burden of fiscal austerity, even as the rich and corporations are asked to contribute even less. Here’s a detailed look at how the GOP’s war on the poor and middle class is playing out at the state level…

Plutocracy Now: What Wisconsin Is Really About

American politicians don’t care much about voters with moderate incomes. Princeton political scientist Larry Bartels studied the voting behavior of US senators in the early ’90s and discovered that they respond far more to the desires of high-income groups than to anyone else. By itself, that’s not a surprise. He also found that Republicans don’t respond at all to the desires of voters with modest incomes. Maybe that’s not a surprise, either. But this should be: Bartels found that Democratic senators don’t respond to the desires of these voters, either. At all.
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It doesn’t take a multivariate correlation to conclude that these two things are tightly related: If politicians care almost exclusively about the concerns of the rich, it makes sense that over the past decades they’ve enacted policies that have ended up benefiting the rich. And if you’re not rich yourself, this is a problem. First and foremost, it’s an economic problem because it’s siphoned vast sums of money from the pockets of most Americans into those of the ultrawealthy. At the same time, relentless concentration of wealth and power among the rich is deeply corrosive in a democracy, and this makes it a profoundly political problem as well.

The New Army: Obama recruits an army of community organizers to carry his ‘movement forward for years to come’
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Gee, a whole gaggle of libtards calling themselves “Obama’s Army”. How sweet. How exactly is this any different than in 2008 when all of the Obamabots were out in force?
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Something tells me this army is not as strong as it once was.

Google Collecting Social Security Numbers: Of Your Children – Doesn’t get any worse than this, does it?
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“Doodle-4-Google” is so much more than an art contest. Sure, the game, which received 33,000 entries last year, celebrates “the creativity of young people” by having them send in a drawing under the theme “What I’d like to do someday …” But, there’s another component, as well. It also helps Google collect some very personal data on students K through 12.

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With this information your children can be tracked the rest of their lives. Hmmmmm.
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Continued from yesterday. (One of the reasons we made the Political Lagoon blog was that conversations sometimes want to extend beyond the life of a post’s commentary.)
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shepherdwong:
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Meanwhile, the political press which can’t tell the story of the class war, which is the story here, even as it is being revealed to the public through unmistakable actions by Republicans, falls further into failure and irrelevance. So, oddly, the more damage Republicans do, the better it will be for the Republic. Perhaps I need to apologize the liberals who decided to stay home and sit on their hands the last election…if they can convince me this was their diabolical strategy all along.

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The helplessness of an electorate who have to choose between two collections of bums is what is manifest here.
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(Boy, am I suddenly worried about two grammar issues. Is “electorate” a “who” or a “that” and should I use “has” or “have”?)
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People who say “Well, they voted these people in so TS for them.” are, as shepherdwong notes here, missing the point. And the Republicans are among those missing the point! People don’t want their paychecks shrinking, their lives organized around how they can survive getting sick, unable to move because their life savings just went negative.
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More simply, they are tired of being the targets of a class war, and are turning to their only possible source of relief–the government–to make things better.
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We know they can do that–look at Glass-Steagall, the FDA, Clean Air, Clean Water acts–but they aren’t. Moreover, our press is not reporting on what is really going on here.
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PNNTO put it this way, yesterday:
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I was struck by the quote from Sen Johnson, though-
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“What we are facing is an American public that is really on the Republican side in their desire, on a macro basis, to cut spending, balance the budget and show real fiscal restraint.”
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“Macro basis” Sounds like what I was suggesting about voters wanting cuts, with no more detail than that.
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As to reporting policy versus politics we all were given the best example I can think of during the health care period.
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People didn’t vote for budget cuts. They voted for things to get better. The Republicans have been saying (and the press has been validating the claim that) deficits are making things worse.
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But they are quickly going to see that budget cuts, especially the budget cuts the GOP wants are going to make things considerably worse than they already are.

Only In Chicago!!
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During yesterdays election for Mayor of Chicago, seems some poll workers were really “happy”.
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Also, a little voter intimidation, Chicago-style!!

Interesting…
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Part of the bill that Walker was rushing to pass would grant the governor the ability to sell off the state’s power plants WITH NO BIDS.
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http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/part-budget-fix-gov-walker-would-rath
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SOMEONE has already started advertizing for new plant managers at a number of the state’s power plants.
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Now let’s see… what family is the MAIN backer of governor Walker and is HEAVILY involved in energy issues?
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Cough…Koch…cough.

“Scott Walker, ran on a platform of restricting some public employees’ collective bargaining rights, and to the apparent astonishment of Wisconsinites who seemingly weren’t paying attention, he’s making good on his campaign promise in a manner exactly consistent with his entire career history.”

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http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/burtlikko/2011/02/22/on-wisconsin/
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Even the idol of all Democrats understood:
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“The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. … I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place [in the public sector]. A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government”.

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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/02/19/the_ghost_of_fdr_is_smiling_on_wisconsins_governor_108962.html
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People didn’t vote for budget cuts. They voted for things to get better. The Republicans have been saying (and the press has been validating the claim that) deficits are making things worse.”

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Bull-crap. People are sick and tired of being taken advantage of by special interest groups and those who are out for only themselves. People woke up in 2010, and made the changes, historical changes, to most all State Houses and Governorships across this nation. Now those elected are going to be held accountable to make these tough decisions.

“State budgets across the country are in disarray as a weak economy, the end of tens of billions in Recovery Act fund”
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And there you have it. The “stimulus” funds were used so that the Democratic governors did not have to make any hard decisions in last years budgets. They in affect “ran away” so they didn’t have to make the tough choice. Now when the cash cow has been drained somebody has to play the gorwn up. As evidence by the Demos in WI and IN we know its not going to be the Democrats. Don’t face the fact that taxpayer have been spent into oblivion blame the rich who carry the overwhelming majority of the tax burden for every sniveling want of the left.

“Bartels found that Democratic senators don’t respond to the desires of these voters, either. At all.”
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A surprise to those only on the left. And yet they tells us time and time again they are for the little guy. When in truth, every policy the left dreams up, harms this group they claim to care so much about. It raises the question, does the left just lie about their concern or are they just ignorant about the affects of any policy they enact?

Rusty,
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We don’t worship our politicians… that’s your schtick.
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We don’t assign messiah tags to elected officials or bow down to organizations, pieces of metal, or promise undying fielty to financial beliefs.
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That’s the GOP way.
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You’re projecting again…

“sell off the state’s power plants WITH NO BIDS.”
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If there are NO BIDS– How do you know who won it!!!!

Are you saying it’s BO’s fault? Just like $4/gal gas was W’s?

Thanks for the links, jsfox…here are the calls:

“We don’t worship our politicians… that’s your schtick”
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No you just smear the one on the right and ignore the ones on the left because they no matter how corrupt are corrupt to your liking.

How do you know we’re not paying thru the nose if there’s no competitive bidding?

Part 2:

A surprise to those only on the left.
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Considering it was written in a left-leaning magazine by a center-left writer, it’s not much of a surprise, is it?

Simple, free. You designate who gets it and transfer the property to them as a purchase, once they’ve paid the proposed cost (whatever it is).
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I’ve included the text of the provision below – read it yourself.

16.896 Sale or contractual operation of state−owned heating, cooling, and power plants. (1) Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).

We’re not the ones that keep referring to various pols as a “god” or idol”.

“SOMEONE has already started advertizing for new plant managers at a number of the state’s power plants.”

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Is that “SOMEONE” George Soros? See, other people can play the game too.

But, then if having an informed discussion had been the goal of your post, you could have read that yourself.

[Some takeaways]:

Koch: We’ll back you any way we can. What we were thinking about the crowd was, uh, was planting some troublemakers.
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Walker: You know, well, the only problem with that —because we thought about that. The problem—the, my only gut reaction to that is right now the lawmakers I’ve talked to have just completely had it with them, the public is not really fond of this […]
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…
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Walker: [...] I went on “Morning Joe” this morning. I like it because I just like being combative with those guys, but, uh. You know they’re off the deep end.
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Koch: Joe—Joe’s a good guy. He’s one of us.
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Walker: Yeah, he’s all right. He was fair to me…[bashes NY Senator Chuck Schumer, who was also on the program.]
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Koch: Beautiful; beautiful. You gotta love that Mika Brzezinski; she’s a real piece of a**.
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Walker: Oh yeah.

How the bill reads:
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<blockquote"the department may sell any state−owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state.”
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A few semantics which I am sure will be changed. My God, you and the left are sounding like conspirators. Glenn Beck would be proud of you.

You know, rusty, if you keep trying to walk through life with your eyes covered all of the time, you’re gonna trip over something sooner or later.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/feb/22/scott-walker/wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-says-he-campaigned-his-/
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Politifact WI:
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Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker says he campaigned on his budget repair plan, including curtailing collective bargaining
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False

“Nothing says “lively debate” like a SWAT vehicle and a heavy police presence.”

Unless the members of the State Highway Patrol have gone rogue and are occupying the statehouse, someone gave them an order to lock the doors. Presumably, Ohio Department of Public Safety Director and Kasich appointee Thomas Charles did.
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Since the statehouse is huge, and the building was all but empty, I’m wondering why Governor Kasich’s appointee kept 5200 constituents standing out in 26 degree cold with no objections from the bold and brave lawmakers who make up the conservative caucus.[...]
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…Janitors, teachers, firefighters and clerks are, of course, terrifying. Maybe that was the reason for the lock-out. If they had been able to feel their hands and feet they may have rioted.

Walker needs some different photos for PR purposes. I haven’t seen one yet where he looks like there’s a soul or conscience behind those eyes.
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“Governor Deadeyes” indeed.

“Considering it was written in a left-leaning magazine by a center-left writer, it’s not much of a surprise, is it?”
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And his response was “it should be” meaning he and the left-leaning (now that’s funny) magazine did not expect it. Because if it isn’t a surprise then the left has just been lying to themselves again!

I take it then that your only counter-argument is that he doesn’t HAVE to sell them no-bid, NOT that he doesn’t have the authority under that legislation to do so?
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And what is it that you are “sure will be changed”? THAT’s the legislation that he was trying to force a vote on, NOT some initial draft of same.
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Weak, Rusty, VERY weak.

“We’re not the ones that keep referring to various pols as a “god” or idol”.”
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Exactly when and how does the right refer to various pols as god or idol except to mock the reverence that the left holds the Democratic clowns.

So in reading this all, this isn’t the real David Koch, right? Someone from a leftist site who supposedly called Gov Walker impersonating David Koch, correct?
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Then you want us to believe this is really Gov Walker on the other end? Seriously?
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Something smells really fishy here. Very fishy fishy.

Let’s see, how can someone online, on a rag-site create controversy?
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Oh I know, put together a call, tape it and make it sound like it is two people talking about how to screw liberals.
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Brilliant!!
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Only problem is the credibility of the person putting this supposed “sting” together. LOL
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Who is worse than Andrew Breitbart? Murphy at the Beast.
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Comedy gold.

“…Janitors, teachers, firefighters and clerks are, of course, terrifying”.
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Yes because there never has been anyone beaten or killed bu union thugs. Now you just sound stupid in addition to dishonest

on the first day of The New York Daily News strike, trucks were attacked with stones and sticks. One union member was immediately arrested for transporting Molotov cocktails. Strikers followed replacement laborers and threatened them with baseball bats. Strikers then started threatening newsstands with arson, or stole all copies of the Daily News and burned them in front of the newsstands. Independent sources estimated over a thousand reports of threats. The newspaper recorded over two thousand legal violations. The Police Department, recorded more than 500 incidents. 50 strikers were arrested. Bombings of delivery trucks became common, with 11 strikers arrested on one day in October.
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Teamsters Orestes Espinosa, Angel Mielgo, Werner Haechler, Benigno Rojas, and Adrian Paez beat, kicked, and stabbed a UPS worker (Rod Carter) who refused to strike, after Carter received a threatening phone call from the home of Anthony Cannestro, Sr., president of Teamsters Local 769

Just a taste

“It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government.” –former AFL-CIO President George Meany (1894-1980)

Rusty,
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You wouldn’t recognize something “fishy” if it fell right off the hook for you.
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Is it my imagination or have you subtly critized Walker, Beck AND Breitbart in the same topic?
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Careful, Rusty, you’ll anger the GOP Trinity.
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Penance is needed on your part.

“Ian Larry Murphy (born October 31, 1978) is an American artist, satirist and gonzo journalist. Murphy is best known for his controversial columns that appear in The BEAST, most notably, an undercover report from the Creation Museum, for which he posed as a reporter afflicted with “Asperger’s Syndrome by Proxy.”[1] Murphy’s work has also been featured on AlterNet[2] and The Daily Beast.[3]“

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Murphy_(writer)
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I wonder if Rachel Maddow will pick this one up? I sure hope she does. Are you a rube, Rachel? Are you going to get duped once again?
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Rachel Maddow getting duped by prank site, “Christwire.org”.
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http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2011/02/rachel-maddow-d.html

As always there is a double standard. If this price fixing, which is what this is, was conducted by corporations, there would be arrests and trials for collusion and corruption. In government it’s called “collective bargaining”.

“[Public-sector] unions are government organized as an interest group to lobby itself to do what it always wants to do anyway — grow. These unions use dues extracted from members to elect their members’ employers. And governments, not disciplined by the need to make a profit, extract government employees’ salaries from taxpayers. Government sits on both sides of the table in cozy ‘negotiations’ with unions.” –columnist George Will

WaPo hack and former Dubya speechwriter gets it wrong again.

On the Washington Post opinion pages you can make up anything you like as long as you are using it in an argument against working people. Therefore we get columnist Michael Gerson telling readers that:

“…public employee unions have the unique power to help pick pliant negotiating partners – by using compulsory dues to elect friendly politicians.”

Nope, that is not true in this country. Unions are prohibited from using dues to pay for campaign contributions. (If Mr. Gerson knows of any violations of the law, I’m sure that there are many ambitious prosecutors who would be happy to hear his evidence.) Unions do make contributions to political campaigns, but these are from voluntary contributions that workers make to their union’s PAC. They are not from their union dues.

Tactics of the left. 1. Call them Racists. if that doesn’t work, then smear them with totally unfounded bogus stuff.
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2. Create a fictional situation call it satire, but then promote it as truth. (Jon Stewart and atheist Bill Maher).
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3. When all else fails, send in the Union thugs to start beating people up and intimidate them. (Worked for SEIU and ACORN), why not in Madison?

“Comedy gold.”
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I can’t wait until 5p or so. Rusty’s a lot more entertaining when he’s tipsy.

ACORN? Union? Beating up? Intimidating?
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You forgot “socialists”, “Nazis” and “Marxists”, Rusty.

Yeah, at that point, the “invective” becomes a little more “freeflowing” and unhinged.
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More of “performance art” at that point.

“Tactics of the left. 1. Call them Racists.”
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When the shoe fits.
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You see Rusty, some of us have decent memories. We remember you saying…

Screw the Senors is the new Democrat Party meme. Let her die and DIE QUICKLY!!
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Unless you are a big Labor Union, ACORN, welfare Blacks or Trial Lawyers Association, then forget it.

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I’m still waiting for your explanation of how ‘welfare Blacks’ is not a racist term.
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For the sober, that was a quote from Rusty/NewFreedomBlog from January 2010. Add GEORGE SOROS! to the list and it’s pretty much the same nutcase drunken babbling as he’s doing now.

They say those terms are overused now afguy, didn’t you get the memo? Especially the Nazi / Hitler smears.
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http://newsbusters.org/blogs/scott-whitlock/2011/02/17/fox-news-highlights-nazi-hitler-signs-wisconsin-pension-debate-netwo

I take it that we have now backed off of the subject of Walker’s legislative proposal?
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So bad that even the trolls couldn’t bring themselves to weigh in on its behalf?

“Looking at Walker’s reflection in the political fun-house mirror makes it abundantly clear that the governor has a more ambitious agenda than merely closing a modest budget gap.”

One old trick is to suggest a thought experiment that asks readers to consider the mirror image of what is going on. In this case, you’d be asked what the reaction would be from Republicans and business interests if a newly elected Democratic governor and legislature proposed to deal with a budget deficit by first raising unemployment benefits and then pushing through a big corporate tax increase for all but the Democratic-leaning tech sector. For good measure, the package would also contain a ban on corporations making political donations without getting the permission of each shareholder, lest they use their power to repeal the tax increase and push the budget out of balance.

This is analogous, of course, to what Gov. Scott Walker has proposed for dealing with Wisconsin’s budget gap: the tax breaks for businesses, the benefit cuts for all state employees except Republican-leaning police and firefighters, the automatic decertification of all public-sector unions and the stripping of their right to bargain anything but wages.

Newsbusters? As a credible source? Seriously, Rusty?
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And to think there are others who think you aren’t funny earlier in the day…

Two words, Freepy:
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Ray. Gun

And the hits keep coming. Th eleft is not going to like politicians with political courage to finally deal with a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Democratic Party

PROVIDENCE — The school district plans to send out dismissal notices to every one of its 1,926 teachers, an unprecedented move that has union leaders up in arms.

In a letter sent to all teachers Tuesday, Supt. Tom Brady wrote that the Providence School Board on Thursday will vote on a resolution to dismiss every teacher, effective the last day of school.

In an e-mail sent to all teachers and School Department staff, Brady said, “We are forced to take this precautionary action by the March 1 deadline given the dire budget outline for the 2011-2012 school year in which we are projecting a near $40 million deficit for the district,” Brady wrote. “Since the full extent of the potential cuts to the school budget have yet to be determined, issuing a dismissal letter to all teachers was necessary to give the mayor, the School Board and the district maximum flexibility to consider every cost savings option, including reductions in staff.” State law requires that teachers be notified about potential changes to their employment status by March 1.

“To be clear about what this means,” Brady wrote, “this action gives the School Board the right to dismiss teachers as necessary, but not all teachers will actually be dismissed at the end of the school year.”
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http://www.projo.com/news/content/providence_teacher_layoffs_02-23-11_MCML6R3_v17.1a1cc6d.html

“As a credible source? Seriousl”
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The left here uses TalkingPoints Memo, WaPo, Think Progress and assorted other Soros backed manure producers. Hard to see the difference except one set you agree with and one you don’t. We even had grape nuts here today refer to Rolling Stone as “left-leaning”. Talk about comedy!

Glad to see you fully support potentially ruining the lives of innocent people, all for the sake of “politics.”

“, the benefit cuts for all state employees except Republican-leaning police and firefighters,”
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Another canard of the left. There are 314 fire and police unions in the state. Four of them endorsed Walker

Repeating the lies doesn’t make it true just shows how desperate the eft is and how out of step they are with a growing number of states now dealing with the problem of bloated public unions.

“Soros backed”
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OMG GEORGE SOROS!
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I guess George Soros is Racist Rusty’s new ‘welfare Blacks’.

“Glad to see you fully support potentially ruining the lives of innocent people, all for the sake of “politics”
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That’s funny and pathetic. Uncontrolled spending to pay under performing teachers not held to any performance standards has hit a point where politicians have to make a tough decision. Innocent people, hardly. These innocent people thought nothing but themselves for decades as salaries and benefits soared while results dropped. Notice how you consider this group of special interests innocent and yet no concern for te taxpayer paying thier ever rising costs with less money because of their taxes going up to meet the demands.

We even had grape nuts here today refer to Rolling Stone as “left-leaning”.
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Wrong again, freeper.

jay, I vote for that … has.
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That said, I don’t know how the real story will be told. Things are indeed going to get worse and people don’t understand how we got to this point, let alone the worse. One problem is that as usual the press gives the extremes the microphone, so most of what one hears – even on NPR – is the extreme position.
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In PA, for example, the governor is going to let the Medicaid program shut down on the 28th. That will send people without insurance to the very expensive BC/BS catastrophic program and to the emergency room for regular care. That obviously costs more, but it is spread around in such a way that it is relatively invisible. As I recall, that emergency room last resort is another Reagan legacy.

Working wonders to solve the unemployment problem.

It’s the equivalent to OMG Koch!

Walker: An interesting idea that was brought up to me by my chief of staff, we won’t do it until tomorrow, is putting out an appeal to the Democratic leader. I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders—talk, not negotiate and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn—but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them will come back and sit down in the state assembly. They can recess it… the reason for that, we’re verifying it this afternoon, legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day, and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have quorum because it’s turned out that way. So we’re double checking that. If you heard I was going to talk to them that’s the only reason why. We’d only do it if they came back to the capitol with all 14 of them. My sense is, hell. I’ll talk. If they want to yell at me for an hour, I’m used to that. I can deal with that. But I’m not negotiating.

Interesting, eh what?

These innocent people thought nothing but themselves for decades..

Do you suppose Freep actually knows any teachers or is he discussing the voices in his head?
Next up he’ll be discussing at length just how horrble farmers and truck drivers are for having the audacity to want to keep their jobs.

Another canard…
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Either freeper is unwilling to engage in the thought experiment or, lacking the capacity for rational thinking, unable to engage…how pathetic and sadly typical of certain voices coming from the right wing.
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In any case, he chooses to throw up chaff instead of recognizing that, if the roles were reversed, he’d be claiming that it was the end of American democracy.

“Working wonders to solve the unemployment problem.”
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Maybe the left will finally take note that the idiocy of spend spend spend has consequences–not likely. Better to completely bankrupt the state and the people supporting these entitlement recipients. The make them face reality. I guess that right since liberals are largely delusional about the reality of “fairness”

Not to mention seeking the authority for a no-bid “selloff” of the state’s power plants.
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“Concern for the public” is just oozing out of all of “Governor Deadeyes’” proposals.

Remember when Sarah Palin got punked by those guys from Canada?
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Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker’s office has confirmed that it fell for a prank call from a liberal blogger who was apparently posing as David Koch. A blogger at buffalobeast.com posted audio of a call he claimed was with Walker earlier on Wednesday. At time of writing, buffalobeast.com appears to be down.

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http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/walker_office_confirms_governor_fell_for_koch_pran.php

“It’s the equivalent to OMG Koch!”
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I’m confused, Freepy.
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Are you saying that the rightwing paranoia about George Soros is equivalent to leftwing paranoia about the Koch Bros?
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Or are you saying that the Koch Bros pose as big a threat to our democracy as does George Soros?
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In which way do you mean that George Soros and the Koch Bros are ‘equivalent’?

“Do you suppose Freep actually knows any teachers or is he discussing the voices in his head?”
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3 nephews are teachers.When I bring up the overpaid tenured system of teachers. They laugh and agree. They love the concept somebody will pay them more than they could make in the private sector, retire early with outrageous benefits and nearly impossible to fire.
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“just how horrble farmers and truck drivers are for having the audacity to want to keep their jobs.”
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Nobody is arguing that “qualified” people keep jobs at what markets rates are. Something that NEVER enters your arguments accountability and qualified. But you seem to have issues with people who earn their money keep any of it

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The arguments get thinner even the supposed high brow Paul Dirks has run out of excuses and has turned to denigration

“Not to mention seeking the authority for a no-bid “selloff” of the state’s power plants.”
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Please show us one of these that has been done and what does it cost the taxpayers? Unlike the public unions that cost billions!

So are your nephews good teachers?
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If so then why do you think the others you’re smearing with that broad brush, aren’t?

The failing results are well documented . And in any group there are good and bad but you have the union standing in the way of any improvement. Yet you whine about collective bargaining.
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Nephews 1 is good 1 bad 1 is a gym teacher. SInce gym is now that nay one won’t feel bad it is hard to think of gym teachers of anything more than cheerleader. He is a coach and that is why he is there and he makes no bones about it which is fair enough for me… Broad brush? I guess it’s not unlike you paint conservatives with a broad brush of being extremist, out to throw the poor into the streets kill old people and every other canard the left throws up when they are caught wasting tax payer money for another entitlement scheme.

“Either freeper is unwilling to engage in the thought experiment”
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Grape nuts you gave a 2 paragraph answer that said nothing about the facts challenging the veracity of your claim. I didn’t expect any different.

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ANd we are not talking about the end of democracy. We are talking about cutting a death grip of a group that is unaccountable, takes no responsibility for what they do and take an ever increasing amount of taxpayer money.
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You, Dirks and the rest of the left brain thrusts (gag) cannot defend them on the merits but go towards pathetic excuses of “more unemployment”, “it’s not fair”, “balancing the budget on the backs of teachers”and “governor has ulterior motives”.
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Somehow defending the interests of taxpayers and staving off financial ruin for the state hardly seems like an ulterior motive—except to the left.

Breaking News…

The Obama Justice Department has decided that part of the Defense of Marriage Act is unconstitutional and will not defend it in court.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/obama_doj_say_part_of_doma_is_unconstitutional_will_not_defend_it_in_court.php

“Are you saying that the rightwing paranoia about George Soros is equivalent to leftwing paranoia about the Koch Bros”
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Paranoia is your word. One is as real as the other only you conveniently mock one and ignore the other. But hypocrisy is part and parcel to liberalism

I would wager dollars to donuts that the good Congressman is refering to past struggles wherein union leaders and supporters were beaten and even shot by those employed by big business to bring them down.
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How times have changed. No longer does big business need to hire goons to bust up unions, all they have to do is buy politicians.

Isn’t it nice that the Chief Law Enforcement Officer refuses to follow the law but gladly sides with criminals! Who would have thought we live under a dictatorship?

I get the feeling that all this is going to back-fire on the Repubs come 2012. Of course, a lot can change… I think voters are legitimately concerned with spending but are getting disillusioned by R governors and on the Hill.
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Per govs- I suspect many don’t like what’s going on in WI– they didn’t expect an assault on public workers and collective bargaining. And don’t like the personal attacks on teachers*.
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Per House reps- I think there is a growing feeling that they are not serious about spending. Earmarks are roughly $16.5 billion per year total (link)– not going to cut it- and many of those programs are popular, plus we’ll see job losses. And they are not addressing the areas necessary to significantly impact govt spending- Defense (overseas construction and new weaponry) and Medicare costs (D, no ability to negotiate with drug and device manufacturers). It makes them look dishonest.
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* For some completely anecdotal support… My father is a life-long Republican voter. He watches FOX often, loves Cavuto and O’Reilly (thinks Beck is a nut). He is very put-off by Walker’s attempt to end collective bargaining. He told me a story about the owner of a co he used to contract for who gutted his sales force when their union didn’t include collective bargaining in its new contract. And he thinks the assault on teachers (suggesting they are lazy, overpaid) is despicable.

Please show us one of these that has been done and what does it cost the taxpayers?
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Which part of “it was in the proposal” did you not get?
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It was stopped when there ceased to be a quorum to vote on it.
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The part many are having trouble with is the lack of transparency as to who was going to be the recipient of this “largesse”. And what the price would be, since he was going to have the authority to set that too.
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Given that one of his prime backers as a TP’er would be the Koch brothers, and given their deep involvement in the energy industry, you can understand why we might be concerned as to who would be the primary beneficiary – the state of WI or them.

“Isn’t it nice that the Chief Law Enforcement Officer refuses to follow the law but gladly sides with criminals! Who would have thought we live under a dictatorship?”
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Freeinpa,
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you profess being a guy that want everything to be constitutional. What is constitutional about the defense of marriage act that makes this administration unlawful?

The government should stop letting speculators (who have no intention of refining crude oil) buy crude oil with very little money down. This drives up the price of oil. Only refineries should be able to purchase oil. I am glad that you agree Rusty that more government regulation in this regard is necessary. I knew you were smarter than a box of rocks.

“”Are you saying that the rightwing paranoia about George Soros is equivalent to leftwing paranoia about the Koch Bros”
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Paranoia is your word. One is as real as the other only you conveniently mock one and ignore the other. But hypocrisy is part and parcel to liberalism”
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Redefining what is really is. Left, hypocrits…right not. It’s the same, but not the ‘same’.

…you gave a 2 paragraph answer that said nothing about the facts challenging the veracity of your claim.
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1) I didn’t make a claim.
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2) Your twisting of one part of what is being said does not invalidate what is being said.
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3) You’re still avoiding the subject. Coward that you are, you will continue doing so.

Did you know free that it is illegal for unions to use membership dues as campaign contrabutions. Membership dues are used to maintain the union. Dues are also used in the stipends that workers get when they happen to find it necessary to go on strike.
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Obviously you not only have never been in a union, but don’t know anybody who has been. I’ve never been in a union either, but my father was, as was my stepfather and they both took me with them when their unions were on strike–which only happened a few times in 18 years. Oh yeah, and when I was in the 7th grade we students marched with the teachers when they went on strike.

I think Congress passed a law

The very same people who didn’t see the writing on the wall until late 2006 are the same people who drag around ‘the american people’ now. They never learned – just look at the pledge. The same vanilla BS as the stuff they’ve always ‘cared’ for.
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2010 for most righties was some kind of right to cram their agenda through. Not to go back to work and figure out how to grow the economy.
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Instead they’re dismantling as much as possible and jumping on the already savaged middle class and I don’t think regular working people had that in mind.
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Ideologues always use the word ‘the american people’ and ‘november’ as if it deflects any kind of overreach, but people don’t want the same. People want jobs and having more unemployed people in the labor pool isn’t exactly what I would think most Americans voted for.

My feeling exactly. There’s the size of the demonstrations for vs against, and the polls by Gallup and Nate Silver’s analysis at 538.
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They are going to rapidly wear out their welcome. They have claimed for years that they are not involved in class warfare, but in reality, the battle is joined.
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All one has to do is peruse the posts by our right wing commentators..

Hippoath:
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Remember that McCain never, ever, uttered the words ‘middle class’ during his entire presidential campaign?

“Did you know free that it is illegal for unions to use membership dues as campaign contrabutions. Membership dues are used to maintain the union. Dues are also used in the stipends that workers get when they happen to find it necessary to go on strike.”

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And erieangel still believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and UNICORNS!!!

Actually, it’s not for the sake of politics that freeinpa is sacrificing, it’s for the sake of his own pocketbook that he’s sacrificing all those middle class teachers…

Or are you saying that the Koch Bros pose as big a threat to our democracy as does George Soros?”

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One simple word that even Mori-the-Moron could understand.
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YES

One only wonders when the good folks on the left begin to take up arms like they are doing in Libya? I’m thinking not long.

Your father seems like a reasonable man but the results regarding the teachers show that the system has failed. Ever increasing money with falling results. No accountability and nothing short of a long tedious expensive process exists to remove the truly bad. Is it an over reaction? Maybe, but the union by essentially thumbing their noses at taxpayers has forced us to this point. To believe that collective bargaining has nothing to do with costs or budgets is simply untrue and possibly naive.
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But your point of it may be solved by defense and Medicare D is missing the point. Defense is actually a duty of the government and will make up a much smaller piece of the budget than entitlements going forward. That is not to say there is excess there, but to your point that’s not where the money is.
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Then next response for the left is higher taxes. Corporations are not paying their “fair share”. Well US corporation pay the 2nd highest rate in the world and taxing international profits will put US tax policy at odds with nearly every other country.

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From the federal level to the state, city and county is in budget distress and our debt grows. If the left won’t acknowledge that spending is out of control now they never will. And that is one major factor that will favor Repubs in 2012

Someone with inside knowledge was expecting that bill to be passed and was expecting to make money off of a change in power plant ownership or management.
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They even went so far as to solicit resumes for new plant managers before the bill had even been voted on.

“There’s the size of the demonstrations for vs against,”
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Since the vast majority of the “us” were union, it points more to the fact that they are more prone to ignore the jobs they are paid and are just professional rabble rousers.
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But what is even more interesting is that the Governors are trying to enact the business of the people while the Dems practice “cut & run”. Who hates government now?

Why do you ask? You worried?

“It was stopped when there ceased to be a quorum to vote on it.”
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So you are complaining about something that doesn’t exist but are not concerned that legislators are practicing “cut & run” on the taxpayer dime.

You gotta love the liberal mind!

Free, lets be honest about Soros and the Kochs. There is no comparison.
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Soros became politically active during the ’04 election cycle as he thought it was imperative that GWB didn’t get re-elected (economically and ethically due to the invasions). He donated $2.5 mil to Move-On and gave money to a few other groups that supported Dem candidates. He also donated heavily to Dem-orientated 527s at that time while publicly declaring that Bush needed to be defeated. But that’s about it.
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The Kochs started and funded think-tanks dedicated to their agenda (as a top energy co), they are the top donator to political campaigns of all energy groups (beating out Exxon Mobile) they started and funded a number of Tea Party groups while denying involvement. They lavish money on many righty-advocacy groups. They are the no. 2 donator to Gov Walker (and have plants in WI). They gave $1 million to the Rep Governors Association. They sit on the boards of a handful of conservative advocacy groups. They hold training seminars and coordinate with journalists on how to advocate. They have met with Justices Scalia and Thomas to discuss current topics (an egregious violation of the Sup Court’s apolitical stance).
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The Kochs are the epitome of elites wielding power and influence to shape events to their personal agenda. Soros hasn’t had much political impact. His is valuable for the right– as a target and in order to denigrate straw-man-progressiveness.

Free, you’ve got a really bad case of argumentis anemia at the moment.
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Step up your game.

“it’s for the sake of his own pocketbook that he’s sacrificing all those middle class teachers…”
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Since I don’t live in any of the states this is currently occurring it has no affect on my pocketbook which means you are talking out your a$s once again.
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But how exactly are they being sacrificed? They have been collecting a taxpayer paid free ride for decades without any accountability and certainly better results regardless of the amount spent.

Your father is obviously of the old breed of republcan, though how he manages to maintain his sanity and his long held believes while watching Faux News is totally awesome.

Jay, I’m with Ivy_B, “electorate that has” is the best formulation.
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This situation in WI has hit me really hard, so I’ve been thinking about this a lot. Seems to me that the village has some assumptions that are never really questioned: the more money raised/spent in elections the better; we all know that rich people have more money to spend on elections; therefore it’s no surprise that their wants and needs are primary. And, I don’t think that either party would argue with those assumptions. Maybe there are one or two left, who feel uncomfortable about that, but they acquiesce.
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We need to argue, somehow. I don’t think that most people in WI knew that by electing Walker, they were electing the Koch brothers’ pull-string talking points doll (I use the Koch brothers only as an over-arching example of the corrosive use of limitless money on politics). If he had honestly campaigned that he was all about union busting and privatizing everything that moved, and further bleeding the treasury for tax giveaways to the rich, he may not have been elected.
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What I find distressing, along with the he-said/she-said media coverage, is that there is almost no coverage in the mainstream, that points out how radical this program is. Not only have we lost (already) all perspective that this really should be about getting people jobs (not hacking and cutting at the few who are still employed to get at the 20% of the wealth that the rich don’t have yet). The media seems to be fixated upon turning those that have already lost (in jobs and in real salary), against those few that remain in the middle class.
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The really fascinating (and sad) part of this, is that the Democratic party is not strongly coming out for the unions in these cases. The silence is deafening. Even though the unions are among the last large-scale organizers for the Democrats at election time. I’ve given up on them truly caring about the middle class but you’d think they’d respond to their own interests.

“1) I didn’t make a claim.
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2) Your twisting of one part of what is being said does not invalidate what is being said.
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3) You’re still avoiding the subject. Coward that you are, you will continue doing so.”
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Well you did make a claim. You stated the governor had other agenda items and used as proof a goof ball article from some nut job source which made the same idiot statement you have made over the past week about the police and firemen.
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You say twist I say expose and it does invalidate what it said since it was a lie. You know what you do daily.
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And I am not avoiding any subject. You are called on your lies and the canards you raise about this them you obfuscate about what you said. And THAT is the subject. You have bothing but lies and speciious accusations to try and support a pathetic claim.Which makes you a liar, coward and pathetic–You win you got the trifecta of liberal stupidity today

“Free, lets be honest about Soros and the Kochs. There is no comparison.
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Soros became politically active during the ’04 election cycle as he thought it was imperative that GWB didn’t get re-elected (economically and ethically due to the invasions). He donated $2.5 mil to Move-On and gave money to a few other groups that supported Dem candidates. He also donated heavily to Dem-orientated 527s at that time while publicly declaring that Bush needed to be defeated. But that’s about it”
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Sorry pintortwo in you attempt to be honest you are dishonest. Its’ not over for Soros. It has been over 2 years since Bush left office and Soros has continued.

The rest of what you say after that statement is not worth much because you obviously are incorrect in your initial premise.

“Did you know free that it is illegal for unions to use membership dues as campaign contrabutions. Membership dues are used to maintain the union”
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HAHAHAHAHAHAH Good one.

It is also illegal to be in this country illegally. That doesn’t seem to stop them or the Dems from supporting them and not the citizens of this country

Free,
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I’ve seen beached bass do less flailing than you are doing right now.
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Start thinking for yourself. Or, alternately, contact TP HQ and get a better set of “talking points”.
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The ones you are using right now suck!

“Nope, that is not true in this country. Unions are prohibited from using dues to pay for campaign contributions”
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You are as delusional as your friend in 19.1

I need to have some automated reply for every post you have that states” just because you keep saying it doesn’t make it true. Your just lying to yourself

The SEIU (Service Employees International Union) may find itself the subject of an investigation by the Department of Labor and Department of Justice for doing just that.

The mighty Service Employees International Union (SEIU) plans to spend some $150 million in this year’s election, most of it to get Barack Obama and other Democrats elected. Where’d they get that much money?

That’s a question the Departments of Labor and Justice are being asked to investigate by the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation. Specifically, the labor watchdog group wants Justice to query a new SEIU policy that appears to coerce local workers into funding the parent union’s national political priorities.

The union adopted a new amendment to its constitution at last month’s SEIU convention, requiring that every local contribute an amount equal to $6 per member per year to the union’s national political action committee.

Isn’t it the province of the far-right to talk about 2nd Ammendment remodies?

“Redefining what is really is. Left, hypocrits…right not. It’s the same, but not the ‘same’.”
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Ah your words not mine again. And defining the meaning of is is has become the stock and trade of the left.

Thanks for the responses.
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To believe that collective bargaining has nothing to do with costs or budgets is simply untrue and possibly naive.
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I agree. But I’m talking about perceptions. I think many are starting to believe that Walker’s actions (and others) are less concerned with budgets and more concerned with union-busting. With good reason IMO.
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Defense is actually a duty of the government and will make up a much smaller piece of the budget than entitlements going forward
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Defense is a duty, spending $382 billion on weapons is shameful. Plus many, including myself, don’t think construction of hundreds of military bases and too-high-tech-for-locals-to-operate infrastructure on Afghani rubble has little to do with defense– they have no military and no way to get here.
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Per entitlements, we’ve had this disagreement before. SS and Medicare are trust accounts (deductions from paychecks to be returned one day) and not discretionary funds– they shouldn’t be part of this discussion. We can debate necessary adjustments to both programs but we’re not going to see the people allow the government to keep those deductions.
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To achieve the $100 billion pledge, I think Defense spending and HC costs need to be addressed. Yet as of now the Rs remain silent, possibly to their detriment.

“Start thinking for yourself. Or, alternately, contact TP HQ and get a better set of “talking points”.”
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Says the knee jerk left. Amazing how nearly every one of the left here give identical responses on every topic even to the smear cracks. So when wil you start to think for yourself because you got the talking points.
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And on cue the left has slipped into denigration because once again their position is BANKRUPT. You grape nuts and other of the bat crap crazy crowd has rn out of excuses and now races to the bottom with mindless smears,.

Which bothers you the most, free?
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The mention of “talking points” or the request that you start to think for yourself?

“I think Congress passed a law”
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They did so with HC – but there are those that claim that HC is not constitutional.
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Besides, I thought the Supreme court had a final word on if it’s constitutional or not.
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So please – since you always point at the constitution as support, where exactly does it lay out what defines a marriage.

“I agree. But I’m talking about perceptions.”
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Yes but perceptions aren’t reality. ANd those perceptions are being fed by the unions, Dems, Obama and the MSM. And you may be right that Walker has set sail on this path and its a game of chicken. But maybe the question that needs to be asked is “should government employees be in unions”. George Meany and FDR seemed to think no!
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“Defense is a duty, spending $382 billion on weapons is shameful.”
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I would like to say you are wrong but I can”t. There is certainly some rationalization that needs t be done, no question.
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“Per entitlements, we’ve had this disagreement before. SS and Medicare are trust accounts (deductions from paychecks to be returned one day) and not discretionary funds– they shouldn’t be part of this discussion.”
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As originally set -up, yes I would agree with you. They were not set up to be retirement and medical plans for a substantial part of the population. To ignore them is a one way ticket to bankrupting our grand children and country.
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“To achieve the $100 billion pledge, I think Defense spending and HC costs need to be addressed. Yet as of now the Rs remain silent, possibly to their detriment.”
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Again agreed. But they also know that Obama and the Dems want a campaign slogan bot to solve the problem. When they complain that about 1.5% cut of a budget is draconian, you lose that argument. Obama’s budget was pitiful, unserious and completely dishonest..
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It has been over 2 years since Bush left office and Soros has continued.
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Continued talking and writing, not spending his considerable wealth to fund liberal advocacy groups.
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The rest of what you say after that statement is not worth much because you obviously are incorrect
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Really? Look at both wikis for political activism.
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Soros (link):
“Soros gave $3 million to the Center for American Progress, $2.5 million to MoveOn.org, and $20 million[47] to America Coming Together. These groups worked to support Democrats in the 2004 election. On September 28, 2004 he dedicated more money to the campaign and kicked off his own multi-state tour with a speech: Why We Must Not Re-elect President Bush[48] delivered at the National Press Club in Washington, DC…
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Soros was not a large donor to US political causes until the 2004 presidential election, but according to the Center for Responsive Politics, during the 2003-2004 election cycle, Soros donated $23,581,000 to various 527 groups dedicated to defeating President Bush.”
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The Kochs (link):
“Americans for Prosperity is an advocacy group that was founded in 2004 by the Koch brothers,[1] and is funded by them;[15] [1] it is the political arm of the Americans for Prosperity Foundation, of which David Koch is chairman of the Board of Trustees[15][16]. Americans for Prosperity created Patients United Now, which advocated against a single-payer system during the 2009-2010 healthcare reform debate.
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Citizens for a Sound Economy was co-founded by David Koch in the 1980s,[15] and, according to the Center for Public Integrity, the Koch Brothers funded it with $7.9 million between 1986 and 1993.[1]. In 1990, they created the spinoff group, Citizens for the Environment.[1]
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Charles and David Koch also have been involved and have provided funding to a number of other think tanks and advocacy organizations: They provided initial funding for the Cato Institute,[15] they are key donors to the Federalist Society,[15] and also support the Mercatus Center, the Institute for Humane Studies, the Institute for Justice, the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, the Institute for Energy Research, the Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment, Heritage Foundation, the Manhattan Institute, the George C. Marshall Institute, the Reason Foundation and the American Enterprise Institute.[17][18]
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As of 2011, David Koch sits on the board of directors of the Cato institute,[19] the Reason Foundation and Aspen Institute.[16]
…
For the 2012 election cycle, the Koch brothers plan to raise $88 million dollars.[21]
…
During the 2010 election cycle, Americans for Prosperity claims to have spent $40 million dollars.[15] Koch groups were the largest oil and gas industry donors to Congressmen and women on the House Energy and Commerce Committee, which is responsible for legislation affecting the industry…[15] Of the six Republican members who were elected to Congress for the first time, Americans for Prosperity supported five of their campaigns.[15] Of twelve Republicans newly appointed to the Committee, nine signed a pledge distributed by Americans for Prosperity to oppose greenhouse gas regulation.[15]
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..from 2005 to 2008, Koch Industries and the foundations under its control donated $5.7 million on political campaigns and $38 million on direct lobbying to support fossil fuel industries. ..between 1997 and 2008, Koch Industries donated nearly $48 million to climate change skeptic groups,[24] exceeding even the donations of ExxonMobil, and nearly $10 million to the Mercatus Center, $3.3 million to the Heritage Foundation, over $5 million to the Cato Institute (all 1997-2008), and $5 million to Americans for Prosperity (2005-2008).[25] Koch Industries and its subsidiaries spent more than $20 million on lobbying in 2008 and $12.3 million in 2009, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan research group.[26][27]
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The Claude R. Lambe Foundation has donated to the American Energy Alliance, an offshoot of the Institute for Energy Research.
…
Charles and David Koch have organized seminars. In June 2010, an event was held in Aspen, Colorado, titled “Understanding and Addressing Threats to American Free Enterprise and Prosperity”. The seminar program says “past meetings have featured such notable leaders as Supreme Court Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas; Governors Bobby Jindal and Haley Barbour; commentators John Stossel, Charles Krauthammer, Glenn Beck, and Rush Limbaugh; Senators Jim DeMint and Tom Coburn; and Representatives Paul Ryan, Mike Pence, and Tom Price. ”
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(forgive the length)

“The mention of “talking points” or the request that you start to think for yourself?”
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Neither since a came from someone who never had an original cogent thought!

Maybe someone should point out to Begala that if every state got back only what they put in– there is no need for the middleman known as the federal government.

George Stephanopoulos on Wednesday highlighted Paul Begala, his old friend from the Clinton White House, while critiquing Senator Rand Paul and the state of Kentucky. Without mentioning his personal connection, the Good Morning America host chided, “You know, in the Daily Beast yesterday, Paul Begala, pointed out that Kentucky gets more from the federal government than they give out.”

Yep, Kentucky would be MUCH worse off…
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And interstate trucking between the deep South and Michigan/Ohio would probably come much to a halt because they couldn’t maintain their part of the Interstate Highway system.
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I imagine there are a number of “have not” states between the “haves” that would cause an inordinate amount of grief for the others should their infrastructure be neglected.
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It ain’t just “a matter of “every man or state for themselves”, free…
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You admitted that yourself a week or so ago, when discussing the “commerce clause”.
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Want to revisit that?
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Or are you just flinging sh!t recreationally right now (yeah, I know, rhetorical question…)

But, then without the Federal government, we wouldn’t even have an Eisenhower Interstate Highway System.
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Or an Internet.
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Or a space program.
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Or communications satellites.
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Or weather satellites.
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Or a whole list of other things.

..I messed up. I left out this from Soros’ link:
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“After Bush’s re-election, Soros and other donors backed a new political fundraising group called Democracy Alliance, which supports progressive causes and the formation of a stronger progressive infrastructure in America.[51]”
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The referenced WaPo article calls the Democracy Alliance “An alliance of nearly a hundred of the nation’s wealthiest donors… directing more than $50 million in the past nine months to liberal think tanks and advocacy groups…”
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Still, IMO, no comparison.

Oh, yeah, forgot another few good ones.
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GPS
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Cellphones
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Modern air-traffic control system

So you agree old Snuffalopagus and the “Forehead” were just bashing Repubs again or are you and they for not addressing the needs of states that don’t agree with your crap

free,
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How about asking a simple question without all of the name-calling and contorted insults? I’m still trying to figure out what point it is that you are making or question you are asking.

Now that you are done with mouseketeer roll call I notice 2 thing s you don’t you attribute to the federal government; defense and freedom for you to spew the crap you do

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Right those are punch lines for you

Oh, OK, so you really had no point to make. The insults WERE the point.
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Sorry… thought there was something concete in there.
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My mistake.

“Ah your words not mine again. And defining the meaning of is is has become the stock and trade of the left.”
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Just wondering, what exactly exempts you from being the same of ‘us’ when you do exactly the same things that you accuse ‘us’ of? Do you have some kind of magic trinket or ‘get out of hypocritical doublespeak’ kind of card?
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I’m wondering. Our stock and trade as you write seems to be exactly the tools you use. You say we smear Conservatives while you have these smurf moments of smearing liberals.
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Is it physical, mental or you knowing that you’re doing what we supposedly do, but since you’re a rightie it makes you exempt or special?

Oh, BTW, free, I spent 20 years in the AF defending your right to sit here today and sound like an absolutely unprincipled RW a$$.

I thought I did?
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Once again you have 2 Democrat operatives just bashing a Republican because he is trying to reign in excess government spending and address the deficit. And how do they do that? By saying Kentucky takes in more than it pays? Which means what? If you don;t agree to spend more the state should not get more than it pays in? That’s exactly how we ended up where we are.
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The only conclusion otherwise is that a state only takes in what it pays in why have the middle man known as the federal government who then takes out their bureaucratic fee. The state could then collect it themselves and then use it without the federal government haircut or regulation that accompanies federal monies.
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Both position are silly so the only purpose is to denigrate a conservative. That’s the point!

“They did so with HC”
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I missed the part of the constitution that says the President gets to decide what is or isn’t constitutional. Just another in the string of laws this president ignores

For the record, I have little use for either Begalia or Stephanopolos. I consider them both 3rd Way, Beltway retreads.

“sound like an absolutely unprincipled RW a$$.”
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And exactly what have I said here that is unprincipled in this discussion? Or do you think that 20 years gives you a right then just to smear anyone you disagree with even though you have by your own admission any clue about what I was saying.

I do think that Rand Paul has his head up his a$$ if he thinks that cutting federal spending for the states won’t have a BIG effect on Kentucky’s infrastructure.
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But then, I doubt he has a clue where our part of the state is. He’s from the middle (Lexington, Frankfort, Louisville). They think we’re over in Missouri somewhere.

Draw a line 100 miles on BOTH sides of I-65 down the middle of the state.
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THAT’s Kentucky to those clowns. The rest is just backfill.

Have the AWOL Senators been sighted yet? Where are their paychecks being sent? Have their staffs been dismissed? Can the governor declare their seats vacant and call special elections? Can anybody answer these questions?

re: Soros and the Koch brothers.

My guess is that right wing billionaires can beat up left wing billionaires.

Has Scott Walker installed caller ID on his phone to make sure that, next time, it really IS David Koch he’s talking to?
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Has he endorsed and cashed his most recent check as a paid representative of Koch Industries?
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Can anybody answer these questions?

Another question…
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Has David Koch re-evaluated the “energy footprint/efficiency” of the “dim bulb” he paid to have installed in the Wisconsin Governor’s mansion?
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Has he arranged a “secret password” with the WI Governor so that the recent phone clusterf*ck doesn’t re-occur?
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Can anybody answer these questions?

But remember, Kasich thinks police are idiots. Could be dangerous.
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For the right wing reactionary crazy file:
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/22/AR2011022207040.html?wpisrc=nl_politics
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Oxcy Rush doesn’t want to take nutrition advise from the “uncomely” Michelle O’bama. But, remember, he also didn’t follow Nancy Reagan’s advise to “just say no”.
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http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/lepage-dismisses-dangers-of-chemical-bpa-worst-case-is-some-women-may-have-little-beards.php?ref=fpb
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Another funny Republican governor:
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LePage Dismisses Dangers Of Chemical BPA: ‘Worst Case Is Some Women May Have Little Beards’

More for the crazy right wing theocrat reactionary file
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http://mediamatters.org/blog/201102230027
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It is time to drive public schools out of business by driving them into an open marketplace where they must directly compete with schools not run by the government or staffed by members of parasitic public employees’ unions.
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In addition to being less expensive and better than public schools at teaching math and reading, Catholic schools — like any private schools — can also teach students that there is a God, that the Ten Commandments are true and must be followed, that the Founding Fathers believed in both and that, ultimately, American freedom depends on fidelity to our Judeo-Christian heritage even more than it depends on proficiency in reading and math.
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And Jeffrey is adamant that private schools not be regulated by states in any way: “the state shall not regulate the private schools, period.” That means no oversight to make sure private schools are successfully educating children. Or to make sure they’re providing safe conditions and sanitary facilities. Nothing. What could possibly go wrong?

Seems you spend a lot of time reading the “crazies” but then I guess like water you seek you own level