Public Workers Protest in Wisconsin

Updated, 8:50 p.m.

Thousands of Wisconsin’s union workers and supporters crowded into the state capitol in Madison for a second day to protest a bill that would strip key collective-bargaining rights from public employees. The measure, introduced last Friday by new Republican Governor Scott Walker, would take away public-worker unions’ ability to negotiate pensions, working conditions and benefits. State and local workers would have to foot more of the cost for their pensions–around 5.8 %–and more than twice that percentage of their health-care costs. Nearly all public workers–the bill exempts police, firefighters and state troopers–would be able to bargain only for salary, and any wage increases would be tied to the Consumer Price Index. (Raises beyond that capped figure would require a special referendum.) With Republicans now in control of the state legislature after November’s electoral victory, the measure is expected to pass as early as tomorrow. You can read the statehouse’s summary of the bill here.

There’s no question Wisconsin has a deficit problem. The state has a short-term budget shortfall of $137 million, and over the next two years the deficit balloons to more than $3.6 billion. Walker says the “budget repair bill” would save some $30 million this fiscal year, which ends June 30, and $300 million during the following two. “I’m just trying to balance my budget,” Walker told the New York Times. “To those who say why didn’t I negotiate on this? I don’t have anything to negotiate with. We don’t have anything to give. Like practically every other state in the country, we’re broke. And it’s time to pay up.” He says the measure will help avoid up to 6,000 layoffs.

The measure has infuriated the state’s 175,000 public-sector employees, who say they’re being scapegoated by a governor whose party has no love for unions.Other newly installed Republican governors, from Florida’s Rick Scott to Ohio’s John Kasich, have zeroed in on cutting state-employee rolls and rights as a way to close sagging budget gaps. But Walker’s plan, which guts entrenched rights, is perhaps the most dramatic. “It is up to us to fight for the right of workers to have a collective voice on the job,” said Wisconsin AFL-CIO president Phil Neuenfeldt. “This proposal is too extreme.”

[Update: In an interview with a Milwaukee TV station Wednesday afternoon, President Obama weighed in on the issue. "Making it harder for public employees to collectively bargain generally seems like more of an assault on unions," Obama said, according to quotes provided by the AFL-CIO. (A transcript is not yet available on the station's website.) "It's important not to vilify them or to suggest that somehow all these budget problems are due to public employees."]

The plan touched off eye-catching protests.

Police estimated Tuesday’s crowd at 13,000, and reports have the demonstrations swelling today, buoyed by an infusion of supporters. Among the masses were some 40% of Madison’s teachers, who coordinated a collective sick day that forced the state to shutter its second-largest school system. The crowd gathered outside the governor’s door chanted for a recall vote, and as a marathon 17-hour public hearing stretched into the early morning hours Wednesday, some of the protesters unrolled sleeping bags in the capitol rotunda. Parallels to the recent popular uprising in Egypt were apparently irresistible; a website popped up comparing Walker to ousted Egyptian autocrat Hosni Mubarak, and Washington Post columnist Harold Meyerson dubbed Walker “the cheesehead pharaoh of the Middle West.”

Some of the furor stemmed from reports that Walker threatened to call in the National Guard to tamp down protests, though as PolitiFact notes, those claims were misleading. In light of the backlash, Walker is meeting tonight with Republican lawmakers to explore potential changes to the bill, but so far he’s shown no signs of caving.

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  • paulejb

    Public employees are just going to have to come to grips with the fact that the government gravy train has derailed.
    .
    For 3 years, public employees have been exempt from the sacrifices with which their neighbors in the private sector have had to contend. Obama’s $862 billion political slush fund allowed the true disaster facing the States to be postponed, but now the chickens have come home to roost.
    .
    Public employees must now face the same dislocations that their lower paid fellow citizens in the private sector face.

  • Paul-no not that one

    PolitiFact says-
    .
    “None of those reports quoted Walker directly, so let’s see what he actually said at the news conference where he announced his proposals.”
    .
    And then links to the text of the bill rather than the news conference where they dispute the charge.
    .
    As further evidence they cite follow up (read:backside covering) comments from his staff.
    .
    Can he muscle this through? Of course. Frankly if he fails at this early point all the face saving in the world-
    .
    “Gov. Scott Walker said Wednesday he was responding to requests from Republican legislative leaders to make at least some changes to a bill that would strip public workers of most of their union rights.”
    .
    -won’t matter.

  • http://shortplaysaboutrealpeople.wordpress.com Michael Maiello

    Sure. But if states won’t pay wages and offer the benefits that qualified public employees demand, then states should have to do without. No governor has the right to tell people they can’t organize to negotiate for what they want.

  • filmnoia

    Howard Fineman made a good point tonight. The moves in NJ and WI are attempts to destroy the public employee unions. These unions are the foot soldiers who get out the vote on election day, usually for Dems. Sounds like a master plan concocted by Rove.

  • Paul-no not that one

    This is about long term change, nothing to do with the budget.

  • gysgt213

    Why doesn’t the Governor just disband the entire government. That will save bunches.

  • paulejb

    filmnoia@4,
    .
    “Sounds like a master plan concocted by Rove.”
    .
    Or maybe it’s just the road to sanity.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Because it has nothing to do with saving money.

  • paulejb

    Michael Maiello@1.1,
    .
    Public employees are currently paid more and have greater benefits, with few costs to themselves, than workers in the private sector.
    .
    The private sector had to downsize and get lean and mean. It’s now time for public employees to share the sacrifices.

  • gysgt213

    This all Obama’s fault anyway so who cares.

  • gysgt213

    “The private sector had to downsize and get lean and mean. It’s now time for public employees to share the sacrifices.”
    .
    HA HA.

  • http://bagergirl09.wordpress.com bagergirl09

    On average, when accounting for factors such as education level public employees earn 8% less than their private sector counterparts even after accounting for factors such as reduced health care costs and pension plans. http://www.epi.org/analysis_and_opinion/entry/public_sector_workers_earn_less/

  • ricardo4max

    selfish liberal neo communists. The Marxist community organizer and the Democrat party have nearly destroyed this country and the public employees unions have worked against the public for their own selfish motives. Congratulations to the Governor of Wisconsin for his courage and wisdom. ever notice how left wing whiners always demonstrate when they are in the minority and don’t get their way? I say tear gas and truncheons. It’s time to take back America.

  • gysgt213

    Yes. Let’s take back America from the American public workers who stole it and pay themselves in gold coins and live in mansion on top of government worker hill.

  • liberalmeltdown

    There shouldn’t be any public employee unions. If they don’t like the pay, they should find another job. Otherwise, you end up with a situation like California where the recalled Gov Davis gave away the state to public employee unions. Davis’ destroyed the State’s budget. He was in the pocket of public employee’s unions and we he got into office he paid them back big time.
    .
    See my post about CA teachers retiring with $100,000 a year pensions @ 6.0.
    .
    http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2011/02/16/do-you-feel-1-billion-safer-today/#comments

  • Paul-no not that one

    truncheon
    n truncheon [ˈtrantʃən]
    a short heavy stick, carried especially by British policemen.
    .
    Here we call them billy clubs. How is the austerity program, I mean programme, working out for you?
    .
    Your call for taking America back is a desire for another 1812 arse kicking?

  • paulejb

    gysgt213@1.3,
    .
    Find all this humorous, do you? It won’t be quite as funny when the Walker bill passes and the average Cheese Head’s give a collective yawn.
    .
    Public employee unions have worn out their welcome with their constant demands.

  • rwbbinla

    @6.. You’re funny! Stupid, but still funny.

  • paulejb

    bagergirl09@1.4,

    Try this on for size, sis…

    http://reason.org/news/show/public-sector-private-sector-salary

  • ricardo4max

    Good post Paul! And Michael the Governor does have the right when greedy selfish public employees threaten the safety and stability of the state government.
    And nice try at the public employees earn less b$. The pensions benefits and job security are not to be found in the private sector for comparables.

  • ricardo4max

    All the more reason why public unions should be busted. They pervert the democratic process. and to think liberals are always whining about fairness.

  • liberalmeltdown

    “Let’s take back America from the American public workers who stole it and pay themselves in gold coins and live in mansion on top of government worker hill.”

    .
    That’s a good idea.
    .

    You think we can afford to pay retired teachers $100,000 a year for 30 years? They can retire at 55.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Hmmm-
    .
    “Madison, Green Bay, Kenosha and other mid-sized Wisconsin cities would have to restructure their transit systems or lose some $45 million in federal aid under a bill quickly moving through the state Legislature, the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau warns.”
    .
    http://www.jsonline.com/newswatch/116359409.html

  • Paul-no not that one

    So if a newly elected r Governor with control of the the legislature were to fail/backdown at this point what would his cheerleaders here say?

  • ricardo4max

    Paul you have a difficult time with English, no? Are you a foreigner or just undereducated?

  • ricardo4max

    We would encourage him to continue in his quest to defeat liberals and liberalism a la Gov Christie!

  • paulejb

    Topic change, but this is too good to miss.
    .
    A PPP poll has match up between Obama and W at 48 – 44 among a sample of 600 “registered” voters.
    .
    In all likelihood, that means that Bush 43 would clean Obama’s clock with likely voters.

  • Paul-no not that one

    You are my favorite Limey!

  • paulejb

    ricardo4max@9.1,
    .
    Chris Cristie took on the Teacher’s unions big time and his approval rating is at 52% in the deep blue state of New Jersey.
    .
    Better yet, Christie’s counterpart in NY, Andrew Cuomo, who advocates similar policies of austerity with no new taxes is at 77% approval.
    .
    It’s a sad day for free loaders in America today.

  • filmnoia

    ricardo4max said -

    “All the more reason why public unions should be busted. They pervert the democratic process. and to think liberals are always whining about fairness.”

    Whether you are an individual or a member of a union, you have the right to go out and get involved in politics, which can mean getting out the vote. If you don’t buy that concept then you might feel more comfortable living in Somalia or Saudi Arabia.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Better the Bush who people know can’t run than the one who could.
    .
    Or so says Fox News
    .
    “On Wednesday, a new poll from Fox News reveals what many staunch conservatives consider their worst nightmare. Despite the wishes of many Republicans who hope that Jeb Bush, the former Florida Governor and Bush dynasty family member, will run for president, a new Fox News poll suggests that President Barack Obama would effectively crush the son of President George H.W. Bush and brother of President George W. Bush.
    .
    The poll in question indicates that Obama would trounce Bush by a 54-34% margin if the presidential election were held tomorrow”
    .
    http://www.examiner.com/us-headlines-in-national/sarah-palin-jeb-bush-would-be-crushed-by-obama-presidential-race-says-fox

  • http://tisias.wordpress.com tisias

    I think you are missing the point. There is a difference between an whining overpaid teacher who just needed a little extra cash to pad his new shore home, or a group of teachers/employees who are pissed off because they don’t have a contract.

    Unions exist because overall, companies want their products or services made with the highest profit margins and lowest costs. Unions exist because companies in that line of thought mistreat their workers, and they want to change that.

    I think basic health coverage, equivilent wage for equivilent results, and overall enough so that they can help put their kids through college isn’t too bad, no?

    Make no mistake however, the results, and the primary goal, is education of children (if we are talking about teachers) or the making of goods and services, and that must be the first priority, but not at the expense of the workers doing all the hard work.

    Food for thought: Ricardo do you even know what a union is and what its purpose is?

    Please, if you are going to criticize unions, at least know why you are criticizing them.

  • paulejb

    Back to topic.
    .
    The late teacher’s union leader Al Shanker famously [or infamously] said “When school children start paying union dues, that’s when I’ll start representing the interests of schoolchildren.”

  • paulejb

    Paul-no…@10.1,
    .
    The election is not tomorrow and the Republican candidate is yet to be named.
    .
    The real question is… What happens if Egypt turns into a version of Jimmy Carter’s Iran?

  • paulejb

    tisias@12,
    .
    The fact that unions are shrinking in the private sector and burgeoning in the public sector tells us all we need to know about labor unions.
    .
    A once noble idea has turned into a racket to exploit the tax payer. Union cash and volunteers buy whole state legislatures and the politicians repay them with taxpayers money.

  • liberalmeltdown

    That’s probably what it will take: Kids picketing for a good education. Or, maybe we should just pay them the $30,000 a year that districts like LA spend per student and shut the dams schools down. Contingent on them graduating from a private school or able to pass a GED test.

  • paulejb

    Want to see the problem with public schools and the solution?
    .
    http://eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=hdqGkUaGSU

    That’s what leadership looks like folks.

  • spob

    What does Obama’s statement cover? Should unions have the state deduct dues from their employees’ paychecks? Is he blind to the issue of unions using their clout to elect their bosses?
    .
    And what does Obama think about the teachers using students to demonstrate for them? Certainly, the asymmetry in the teacher-student relationship makes that a bit of an ethical problem, n’est-ce pas?
    .
    Given Obama’s penchant for commenting, let’s see him comment on the Wikileaks documentation showing that the Americans currently being held in Iran were in Iraq when seized, which, of course, in a more manly era was an act of war.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Ha-you go off topic to point out a poll that illustrates (without linking, we’ve been through that) an impossible match up and I link to a poll that shows a republican dream match up with results you don’t like and…
    .
    “The election is not tomorrow”
    .
    For a guy who repeatedly repeats how smart he is that’s kind of sad.
    .
    And by sad I mean predictable.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Looks like no worries.
    .
    “Republican leaders plan to soon pass a bill that would effectively strip collective bargaining rights from most public workers in Wisconsin, suggesting only modest changes to the proposal introduced by Gov. Scott Walker.”
    .
    http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_4e64e866-39d3-11e0-879e-001cc4c002e0.html
    .

    Governor One and Done (Wi Version) got this through his republican legislature.
    .
    The Wisconsin/Florida/New Jersey miracles will be something to behold.

  • paulejb

    Paul_no…@10.3,
    .
    Did I miss something? Is the election tomorrow? Who’s the Republican candidate Jeb Bush or Sarah Palin?
    .
    That is the only way that your scenario will work out,

  • 53_3

    spob:
    .
    Don’t be so stupid.
    .
    The hikers were in Iraq.
    .
    And “manly”? Are you talking, say, Viking-era manliness when we just ran around pillaging and chopping off heads manly?
    .
    Or are you talking “I have cajones and you can’t prove that I don’t” manly?
    .
    Is it Ronald Reagan “I won’t negotiate with terrorists, except when I have to buy them weapons to pay ransom for our hostages” manly?
    .
    We are not going to touch off a region wide war over this.
    .
    Repeat. Wash. Rinse.
    .
    We are not going to touch off a region wide war and tank a recovering economy over this.
    .
    Now go away

  • 53_3

    Those thugs in the SEIU and ACORN started it too, paulejb.
    .
    We coulda taken over da whole woild…

  • 53_3

    Well, paulejb, Ron Paul is the runt frunner, er, uh, front runner right now.
    .
    Sorry, my slinger fipped.
    .
    Yah! Go GOP!
    .
    Sort of…

  • formerlyjames

    I must admit that I don’t know, nor care about the problems in Wisconsin.

    I went through this thread and saw not a mention of the rallies in the middle east. which this resembles. Human rights. Right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. There are forces on the right wing that would deny that. They are the cause of the suppression in the middle east, and in our own country. We call it the Republican Party. The mentally deficient cousin in the basement is the Tea Party.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “Did I miss something?”
    .
    Yes.
    .
    But I respect you enough to want to believe that it is willful ignorance.
    .
    Not as sure that others will miss it though.

  • 53_3

    …and if a poll of 600 FOX inmates is “…too good to pass up…”, you certainly do not have very much low hanging fruit to grab hold of…

  • 53_3

    Ricardo is my favorite dictator!

  • rahonavis2

    Paul, you reference was from the reason foundation, a libertarian think tank. This is the first few lines of their own description of themselves.
    .
    .
    “Founded in 1968, Reason Foundation is a nonprofit organization advancing “free minds and free markets.”

    Reason Foundation advances a free society by developing, applying, and promoting libertarian principles, including individual liberty, free markets, and the rule of law.”
    .
    So hardly a impartial reference.

    .

    Within Reason’s own article it had to acknowledge that once education level was factored in the private sectors pay was higher. Again from your link.
    .
    .
    “Are Public Sector Workers Undercompensated?

    But according to a new study published by the Center for State & Local Government Excellence and the National Institute on Retirement Security, these aggregate compensation comparisons are misleading. The authors, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee economics professors Keith A. Bender and John S. Heywood, assert that state and local government workers are better educated and have more work experience, on average, than do private sector workers, so it is natural that their overall average compensation would be higher. “Thus,” they conclude, “the fact that public sector workers receive greater aver­age compensation than private sector workers should be no more surprising than the fact that those with more skills and education earn more.”

    Furthermore, after attempting to control for such variables, they find that state and local government workers actually earn less than their private sector counterparts. According to the analysis, state government workers earn an average of 11.4 percent less than private-sector workers of similar education and work experience and local government workers earn 12.0 percent less. Due to the greater benefits received by public sector workers, the gap narrows when these benefits are factored in, to 6.8 percent and 7.4 percent, respectively. (Even this appears to underestimate the cost of the benefits provided government workers, as discussed below.)

    The Difficulty of Compensation Comparisons

    As the report notes, it is difficult to do a real “apples-to-apples” comparison of public and private sector compensation because public sector job descriptions and duties may be very different from those in the private sector, and vice versa, so oftentimes there are no good positions to compare to in the other sector.”

    .
    .
    Now Reason then tries to dismiss this saying that not all degrees and universities are equal. While this is true, it does not mean that just because someone went to a second tier university they have no more education or qualifications than someone who just completed high school. They then try to say that private employees work more, but since they again compare straight averages, not directly equivalent jobs (i.e. say a first year public school teacher with a first year private boarding school teacher) the stats are questionable. Think about it, if you have only a GED you may need to have multiple jobs, and thus many more hours, to equal the salary of a single teacher who has a Bachelors degree plus a teaching degree, but are those two people really equivalent?

    .
    .
    Oh and if you think teachers are all overpaid and pulling in huge salaries this is from the bureau of labor statistics http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos318.htm#earnings

    “Median annual wages of kindergarten, elementary, middle, and secondary school teachers ranged from $47,100 to $51,180 in May 2008; the lowest 10 percent earned $30,970 to $34,280; the top 10 percent earned $75,190 to $80,970.

    According to the American Federation of Teachers, beginning teachers with a bachelor’s degree earned an average of $33,227 in the 2005-2006 school year.”
    .

    now compare that to a broker, another job that requires minimally a BA. Yes some people, especially those who want to move up go for a MA, but some teachers, especially those that want to move up get MA in education (I.e. my mother got a PhD in the subject while still working as a teacher and administrator).
    Again same site http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos122.htm#earnings

    The median annual wage-and-salary wages of securities, commodities, and financial services sales agents were $68,680 in May 2008. The middle half earned between $40,480 and $122,270.

    Median annual wages in the industries employing the largest numbers of securities, commodities, and financial services sales agents were:

    Other financial investment activities $94,960
    Security and commodity contracts intermediation and brokerage 85,580
    Management of companies and enterprises 81,940
    Activities related to credit intermediation 52,890
    Nondepository credit intermediation 47,760
    .
    .
    Take home, teachers are not really overpaid given the level of education. Also give the nature of the service they provide (teaching our children versus making money) which would you rather be higher paid, a broker or a teacher? I know my pick.

  • 53_3

    Since funds have been cut for mental health, there isn’t anywhere else to keep him but in the basement.

  • paulejb

    53_3@12.2,
    .
    But those purple t-shirts would become so dreadfully monotonous.

  • paulejb

    53_3@10.5,
    .
    Ron Paul is always in the lead until real votes are counted and then he fades back into obscurity except among the hard core anarchists.

  • paulejb

    Paul-no…@10.6,
    .
    So what did I miss?

  • 53_3

    Won’t matter, paulejb.
    .
    Let’s hope Sarah Palin wins!

  • 53_3

    Imagine what we coulda done though.
    .
    I mean after America, we would have had the whole galaxy at our knees!

  • paulejb

    formerlyjames@16.
    .
    You’re on the wrong thread. Scroll back to Joe Klein’s thread on “Rape and Revolution.”.
    .
    There you will get all the chatter you could wish for on the boyish antics of those revolutionary heroes. Two hundred of them against a lone women. Quite the heroic tale. You should be enthralled.

  • paulejb

    53_3@12.4,
    .
    Well, maybe not the whole galaxy but definitely downtown palookaville. You would have all fit right in in your purple t-shirts and Brooklyn accents.

  • 53_3

    paulejb:
    .
    Well, so you do admit all this ACORN and SEIU swill the GOP is serving really was a load of croutons!
    .
    Thanks, paulejb, as a memeber of SEIU, I’m relieved…

  • paulejb

    rahonavis@1.8,
    .
    Adding subjective criteria like education levels merely clouds the issue. The objective fact remains that public employees are cpmpensated more than private sector workers. The numbers are all there at the link I provided.

  • paulejb

    Paul-no…@9.3,
    .
    “The Wisconsin/Florida/New Jersey miracles will be something to behold.”
    .
    Indeed!
    .
    P.S. Don’t count out Andrew Cuomo in New York.

  • paulejb

    53_3@10.10,
    .
    “Let’s hope Sarah Palin wins.”
    .
    Okay

  • 53_3

    rahonavis:
    .
    He seems to have completely glossed over the first paragraph you wrote.
    .
    Excellent commentary, backed up with unbiased data…

  • 53_3

    Well, that’s one way to come to an agreement on something anyway…

  • paulejb

    53_3@12.6,
    .
    I am actually saying that the purple shirt crowd is likely to go the way of their forebears, the Brown Shirts of the 1930s. Now there is a cautionary tale.

  • paulejb

    53_3@10.12,
    .
    Done and Done.

  • 53_3

    Well, that’s a frivolous way to cheapen the atrocities of the Nazis in a slick sort of way.
    .
    You guys are very good at driving off religious and ethnic minority participation in the GOP.
    .
    Really good.
    .
    I’m sure that the Jewish community would like to hear you expound on this…

  • http://nationalsec.wordpress.com nationalsec

    Might be time for a recall of this state’s governor.

  • swissArmyBrainBETA

    nice work rahonavis. paul writes alright, but doesn’t seem to spend much time reading what he’s responding to. basically any time time u have a think tank w/ a highly specific agenda like that, all their conclusions are already necessarily foreordained. their “research” can never be treated as such, because all the employees are funded to support the institution’s position w/ all conclusions.

  • rahonavis2

    Paul, how does education cloud the issue, it is the issue. Do you believe that the chief of medicine at the Mayo clinic and the late shift janitor should earn the same? No, because they have different jobs dictated by their level of expertise and education. Comparing the mean salary of a public service worker, who have higher education qualifications and whose job demands those qualifications, with the mean for all private sector jobs (who don’t have the same level of education and whose jobs do not demand it) is disingenuous. Unless you believe that everyone, regardless of educational background, level of expertise or level of achievement, should be paid the same (i.e. communism, which I know you don’t subscribe too thanks to other posts) than you must admit that if the public sector is made up of people with higher qualifications, they should be paid more.

  • swissArmyBrainBETA

    well, public sector unions are definitely a scapegoat, but i always though letting them negotiate pensions was a recipe for disaster. it’s simply too easy for officials to meet immediate needs by promising these huge future benefits which will have to be dealt w/ by OTHERS. limiting it to salary means the cost will have to be dealt w/ immediately, by the ppl doing the negotiating.
    .
    everyone here claiming this is only about hurting democratic election prospects by hitting unions is dreaming. collective bargaining in the public sector has long been opposed on principal, and used to be an idea w/ very little support. although to be fair, the only principal referenced by conservatives on this site is that they hate unions.

  • apr2563

    liberalmelt: Your retired teacher was either lying or double dipping. Here are the facts:
    .
    The average monthly member-only benefit is $4329.
    .
    Employees contribute to their retirement fund.
    .
    •You contribute 8% of your creditable compensation. This is withheld from your paycheck.
    •Your employer contributes an amount equal to 8.25% of your creditable compensation.
    •The state of California contributes 2.017% of your creditable earnings. However, this amount is calculated from the fiscal year ending in the previous calendar year, not on your current compensation.
    .
    California State Teachers’ Retirement System (CalSTRS) participants do not pay into the Social Security system as California educators. Instead, they pay a higher percentage of their earnings into the CalSTRS fund. Therefore, they do not qualify for Social Security benefits at retirement, unless they are eligible due to a spouse’s earnings or earnings from another job on which they did pay Social Security taxes.
    .

    http://ctainvest.org/home/CalSTRS-CalPERS/about-calstrs/calstrs-retirement-benefit.aspx
    .
    I too can speak from personal experience. I have 2 family members who are retired teachers. Neither gets anywhere near the mythical $100,000 you wrote about.

  • apr2563

    Ah the good old days of no unions, no worker safety, no overtime, child labor, no vacations or holidays, 6 day work weeks…No middle class.

  • apr2563

    If you have ever been to Wisconsin you know that the Green Bay Packers rule. I spent some time in Green Bay and they are represented everywhere. If they are unhappy, the populus is unhappy.
    .
    http://www.workdayminnesota.org/index.php?news_6_4764
    .

    Members of the Super Bowl champion Green Bay Packers issued a statement in solidarity with Wisconsin workers seeking to retain their collective bargaining rights.
    “We know that it is team work on and off the field that makes the Packers and Wisconsin great,” the players said in a statement issued Tuesday. “As a publicly owned team we wouldn’t have been able to win the Super Bowl without the support of our fans.

    “It is the same dedication of our public workers every day that makes Wisconsin run. They are the teachers, nurses and child care workers who take care of us and our families. But now in an unprecedented political attack Governor Walker is trying to take away their right to have a voice and bargain at work.

    .
    When you drive through Green Bay and you suddenly come across Lambeau field in the middle of a distinctly middle class neighborhood you understand the players attachment to the people that own their team.

  • artraveler

    If it snows, I hope the governor knows how to drive a snowplow. He might want to take one home.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Thirdhand testimony so take it for what it’s worth.
    .
    A post from another board from 4:51 this morning.
    .
    “According to friends in Madison, the Capitol is blockaded as of 3 hours ago, restaurants are sending food through the blockade to feed the protesters, and people are boarding visitors from out of town for the long haul.
    .
    Looks like (edit: stuff) is getting serious.”

  • hippooath

    “Ron Paul is always in the lead until real votes are counted and then he fades back into obscurity except among the hard core anarchists.”
    .
    Libertarians are anarchists. Delivered by the same people who think socialism is the same as fascism, because some guy wrote a book over a summer. Frack every single historian that have spent decades milling over recorded history.

  • hippooath

    “I am actually saying that the purple shirt crowd is likely to go the way of their forebears, the Brown Shirts of the 1930s. Now there is a cautionary tale”
    .
    Very likely, if it wasn’t for the fact that unions were amongst the first victims of the nazi regime.
    .
    I guess clever only survived the first week then it fell into the pit of bullsh!t ideologues swim in daily.

  • bobcn1

    ‘Neither gets anywhere near the mythical $100,000 you wrote about.’
    .
    apr2563,
    Thank you for correcting the propaganda that is being pushed here.
    .
    Misrepresenting the pay and benefits of union members is part of the standard right wing (or corporatist) playbook. They resort to it every time they target an organized group of workers.
    .
    The earliest example of this that I remember was when Reagan went to war with the air traffic controllers union. His supporters (mostly political appointees) were traveling around the country telling people that controllers were making more than 100k (a huge amount in the early ’80s). The credulous press never bothered to inform the public that controller’s actual pay (which could be looked up by anyone — it’s the standard GS pay scale used by most federal employees) was actually about 1/3 of that.
    .
    Remember the ‘Auto Workers Make 70 Dollars An Hour’ lie that they trotted out several years ago? Same thing. Auto workers were making no where near that much. The inflated figure was intended to turn public sentiment against the union. It was completely dishonest and the people that concocted the phony figure knew it.
    .
    Now we’re hearing phony public service worker pension numbers. It’s the same kind of propaganda and it needs to be nipped in the bud.

  • nflfoghorn

    RE 1.8: The WI/FL/OH govs are all using the “Reason Foundation” playbook.
    Crook in FL cited a “Reason” white paper that said it would cost the state too much $ to maintain a high-speed rail system. Even though it wouldn’t have cost FL an extra dime to build it.
    (Just like it’s too hard to maintain an interstate highway system, huh?)

  • http://jimticket.wordpress.com jimticket

    I’ve worked in both private and public sectors. I was laid off during the last recession in 2003. I work as a Fed now and I hear a lot of complaining but what they don’t understand is that times are tough. When the company I worked for became unprofitable, they cut costs. It’s as simple as that. The Government needs to cut costs as well. Unfortunately for states like Wisconsin they don’t have many options because Medicaid spending is mostly mandated by the Feds so it and other programs are off the table. That means that the state employees have to take the hit. It’s isn’t necessarily right but until Washington and the states realize that entitlement spending is killing us, we’ll see more teachers, police, and firefighters taking the hit.

  • 53_3

    Shhhh.
    .
    Don’t tell anyone!
    .
    How about we raise taxes?
    .
    I paid a couple thousand last year. I only make 50k. I’ll be willing to pay $5000 a year if we can get upscale participation in rebuilding this country.
    .
    Oh:
    .
    Keep yer hands off my retirement….

  • 53_3

    Kinda “Egypt-ish” isn’t it?
    .
    Maybe those protests have captured the imagination of real Americans here?

  • shepherdwong

    Paul, how does education cloud the issue…
    .
    Because he’s a lying @sshat who has no idea what he’d talking about, just the bullet-point lies fed to him by his authoritarian masters. That’s why relevant facts “cloud the issue,” for him.
    .
    Don’t waste your time, there’s not an honest or inetellectually curious bone in his body.

  • afguy

    Dem Senators have walked out – no quorum.
    .
    Gov. is considering use of State Police to being them back for vote.

  • Far Infrared Saunas

    The problem is that the greed and corruption of those who are to blame for this recession have gone without consequences and accountability.

    You think what is going on in Egypt is a precursor to what is brewing in America maybe???

    Anyone that has ever watched Michael Moore’s propaganda movie “Capitalism” should know that this nation is reaching it’s boiling point.

    If you ask me, I believe we’re already “boiling” now, and it’s only a matter of a year or so before you see those accountable being held to the flames, so to speak.

    Far Infrared Saunas

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