100 Billion Dollars!

Last year, in the Pledge to America Republicans said if they gained control of the House they would lop $100 billion off the 2011 federal budget. Lo and behold they won. But the week they took office, they said that given that fiscal 2011 was already partly over so they would cut more like $60 billion. I never quite got this move as it seemed like they were ceding ground before the negotiations even started. And then they ceded even more. Last week, House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan came up with an even smaller number: just $35 billion in cuts.

When asked how the $35 billion in cuts fulfills their pledge of $100 billion, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor had this to say on Tuesday:

It fulfills the pledge because we said in a year’s time we were going to cut spending by $100 billion. As you know, we are five twelfths of the way through the fiscal year by the time the expiration occurs. We will be proposing this again in the next fiscal year, and if you look at it in an annualized basis, I assure you it will be over a $100 billion.

Apparently, the GOP freshmen didn’t buy this fuzzy math. Wednesday morning after the House Appropriations Committee revealed $40 billion in cuts the freshmen and Republican Study Committee, a group of fiscal conservatives, balked and demanded more. House Appropriations Chairman Hal Rogers went back to the cutting table and produced $76 billion in cuts. That still wasn’t good enough.

So, today Rogers announced they’d found the full $100 billion in cuts and they will move forward with this bill. The cuts include both defense and non-defense discretionary spending. And they’re going absolutely nowhere as the Senate will surely reinstate most of them. The big question, though, is if this rebellion shows that House Speaker John Boehner and his gang have little control over their conference. Boehner has mostly poo-poohed the idea of a government shut down. But if he cannot muster enough votes when the Senate bounces the 2011 budget back to them he may be dragged by his Tea Party wing into doing exactly that. Government funding runs out March 4 and, yes, a temporary measure can be passed extending the current level of funding while the debate plays out. But the longer this takes, the less months in the fiscal year, which ends in September, remain for cuts and the deeper the cuts will be — $100 billion spread over 12 months is not nearly as painful as $100 billion spread over six months. And at what point to the freshmen say uncle? To hear them tell it, not any time soon. “A lot of us freshmen don’t have a lot of knowledge about the way DC has operated,” Rep. Kristi Noem, a South Dakota Republican who beat Stephanie Herseth Sandlin in November told a roaring crowd at CPAC today, “and frankly we don’t really care.”

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Related Topics: Budgets, Congress, John Boehner, Republican Party, Senate, Tea Party
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  • afguy

    The big question, though, is if this rebellion shows that House Speaker John Boehner and his gang have little control over their conference.
    .
    Yes. Another episode of SATSQ.
    .
    They grabbed that tail – now they’re stuck with it.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    “A lot of us freshmen don’t have a lot of knowledge about the way DC has operated,” Rep. Kristi Noem, a South Dakota Republican who beat Stephanie Herseth Sandlin in November told a roaring crowd at CPAC today, “and frankly we don’t really care.”

    Ignorance sold as a virtue. And people wonder why the Palin threads generate so much traffic……

    These folks are not only idiots. they’re proud of it.

  • afguy

    Agreed..
    Even if they don’t like the “neighborhood”, it makes sense to at least get a “street map” to drive in it.
    .
    Even if the plan is to re-route some of them later on.

  • newfreedomblog

    “Rep. Kristi Noem, a South Dakota Republican who beat Stephanie Herseth Sandlin in November told a roaring crowd at CPAC today, “and frankly we don’t really care.”

    .
    So refreshing to hear some truth for a change coming out of Washington.
    .
    Instead of “But we’ll have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it”. So take that you bunch of wack-jobs!!
    .

  • shepherdwong

    Uh oh, “conservatives” are definitely going to say mean things about you now. You told the truth about Republican mendacity and general cluelessness and they absolutely hate that. Nice work, JNS.

  • newfreedomblog

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    I never quite got this move as it seemed like they were ceding ground before the negotiations even started.
    .
    JNS, how blatant a lie do they have to tell for you to call it a lie?
    .
    The trouble they’re gonna have with these freshman is they don’t get that these are all lies, little lies that are meant to enforce the Big Lie that Republicans oppose big government and deficits.
    .
    Every single republican house, republican senate, republican president has proposed an increased budget in every single year that one has been prepared.
    .
    What do they have to do to make the traditional media start pointing it out? During the campaign, when asked, they couldn’t answer, ever, the “what are you gonna cut?” question. And they were given a pass.
    .
    And now what’s gonna happen is these crazy, draconian cuts aren’t even gonna make it to a vote, and they will blame big government and tax and spend democrats for their not making the cuts.
    .
    And they will do what colbert told them to do at WH Correspondents Dinner. Write it down, and print it.

  • newfreedomblog

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Embracing austerity in the current situation– low interest rates, low inflation, high unemployment– is a recipe for economic disaster. See: http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_News/BTIMES/articles/brount/Article/
    -
    Paul Ryan, like Dick Cheney before him, doesn’t care about the deficit. His Roadmap, even though he gamed the system by having the CBO evaluate his spending proposals but not his tax proposals, projects deficits as far as the eye can see– well, until 2063, at least, with the debt continuing until 2080, when Ryan will be a frozen head in a lab waiting for some John Galt to reanimate him. See page 84-85 of the Roadmap here (long pdf): http://www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/UploadedFiles/Roadmap2Final2.pdf

    Of course, like the rest of the GOP, Ryan voted for Medicare Part D (deficit-financed, unlike the deficit-reducing health insurance reform Democrats enacted last year). And like the rest of the GOP, he just refused to allow tax rates to return to where they were the last time we had a functioning economy, in the 1990s.

    That’s because Republicans don’t have policy beliefs. Among the many items on the list of things they don’t care about is the deficit.

  • paulejb

    So the House and Senate will be engaged a game of chicken over spending. Which one will blink first?

  • newfreedomblog

    “And now what’s gonna happen is these crazy, draconian cuts aren’t even gonna make it to a vote, and they will blame big government and tax and spend democrats for their not making the cuts.”

    .
    You betcha!! Every single vote will be counted and tallied. Everyone who votes not to pass the cuts will be exposed for everyone to see.
    .
    Yes, odds are “they will blame big government and tax and spend democrats for their not making cuts”
    .
    Gee, that wasn’t so hard now was it?

  • Paul-no not that one

    Boehner can’t control his TPers? That’s not exactly news.
    .
    This week we already saw Hatch prostrate himself before them.
    .
    They (the TPers) have no incentive to compromise with leadership. Some, like Momma TPer Bachmann, brag about not wanting to deliver for their constituents so the old power of the purse doesn’t work.
    .
    No stick and no carrot. Oddly enough the minority of the republican party holds all the cards over the established majority.

  • newfreedomblog

    This is just too good to pass up.
    .

    “JNS, how blatant a lie do they have to tell for you to call it a lie?”

    .
    What lie? What part of “Republican Study Committee, a group of fiscal conservatives, balked and demanded more,” don’t you get?
    .
    The Pledge promised to cut $100 BILLION out of the current budget. Some Republicans balked, while others held steadfast to their pledge. I do not see any lies. Rather than pontificate on what hasn’t even happened yet, do please point out all those LIES that have not been told yet.

  • http://gum0nshoe.wordpress.com gumOnShoe

    The house always blinks first. And the president isn’t likely to OK anything that cuts anything to drastic either; or at least I would hope so. He has been rather flaky on standing up for anything he claims to believe in.

  • shepherdwong

    The Pledge promised to cut $100 BILLION out of the current budget.
    .
    And they’ll break that pledge just like they broke their promises to repeal “Obamacare” and focus on jobs. And you’re still too stupid and partisan to realize you’ve been had…again. Moron.

  • nflfoghorn

    But they’re part of Washington now; whether they like it or not, they’re viewed as “Washington insiders.” Did we elect a bunch of numbskulls??

  • newfreedomblog

    Yea, wongy. Go right ahead pal. Stupid and partisan has always been your name.
    .
    I on the other hand will gloat and clap loudly when the Tea Party elected do as they said they would do. Clean up the swamp that is Washington DC.

  • nflfoghorn

    Now, now, SW, it’s Thursday…. :)
    But I do see words being parsed and hairs being split.

  • shepherdwong

    JNS, how blatant a lie do they have to tell for you to call it a lie?
    .
    You do know that the “L-word” (like liberal opinion itself) is embargoed by the legacy political press, right? Too “uncivil” don’t you know.
    .
    Seriously, this is about as good as it’s going to get and it’s at least not “conservative” water-carrying. I’ll take it.

  • afguy

    Did we elect a bunch of numbskulls??
    .
    nfl, that’s a rhetorical question… right?

  • shepherdwong

    Sorry, nfl. At least I try to only poke the trolls and never feed them.

  • http://americadoneright.wordpress.com/ mcoville

    Lets ignore that a republican has suggested cuts of about $500 billion, http://talkandpolitics.wordpress.com/2011/02/08/sen-paul-making-waves/

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    The Pledge promised to cut $100 BILLION out of the current budget.
    .
    And it was a lie. They are not going to do it.
    .
    It’s also a trivial amount of money, having an inconsequential effect on the size of government or the interest bills being racked up by the continuation of Bush’s Gilded Age tax policies.

    This is an instance of the Big Lie in action. Just so you understand, that is why JNS is using a Mocking Headline, referring to a Famous Moment in a “Movie” involving a Villain with a Giant Space Laser.
    .
    JNS does have a quarrel with me; she is mocking this stupidity, making clear she knows it was all BS. But they reported on it straight, all the way through the election. For her to suddenly get all savvy on us is all too typical.

  • http://flounder73.wordpress.com pafro

    Sorta explains that teatard that was all upset that he didn’t get his sweet government healthcare the second his election was announced by the local jerkwater news.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “A lot of us freshmen don’t have a lot of knowledge about the way DC has operated,” Rep. Kristi Noem, a South Dakota Republican who beat Stephanie Herseth Sandlin in November told a roaring crowd at CPAC today, “and frankly we don’t really care.”
    .
    Wait..isn’t that the punch line to the old “Which is it? Are you ignorant or are you apathetic” joke?

  • newfreedomblog

    I don’t know what part of $100 Billion you consider to be chump change, but for me it is a start.
    .
    As Rome was not built in a day, so too will cutting out all of the exorbitant spending brought onto us by BOTH Republicans and Democrats over the past 10 years.

  • pintortwo

    The Republicans look ready to copy the Obama / Dem show of the last few years: Say you’re for something right up until the time that you can get it- then backtrack, allow it to fail and blame the other party.

  • shepherdwong

    And it was a lie. They are not going to do it.
    .
    It was a lie because they knew they weren’t going to do it when they told the Teatards they would. They also know that they have the most easily-fooled, authoritarian-following morons the world has ever assembled.

  • rdw56

    Rep. Kristi Noem, a South Dakota Republican who beat Stephanie Herseth Sandlin in November told a roaring crowd at CPAC today, “and frankly we don’t really care.”

    ************************************************

    Paul, get used to the name. She is very, very attractive, very smart and as you can see, sassy. Her career in politics will last as long as she wants it to last and will almost certainly include the Senate. Tim Johnson has had several health issues and will be 68 when his term expires in 2014.

  • rdw56

    And they know what to do with it. The TP wanted $100B and the TP gets what it wants. It’s not at all a bad thing the Senate try and put it back. What do you think is going to happen to Nelson, McCaskill and Casey when they vote to increase spending?

  • shepherdwong

    Say you’re for something right up until the time that you can get it- then backtrack, allow it to fail and blame the other party.

    You mean like HCR and DADT? And whatever examples you think you know, you have no idea what Obama’s/Democratic intentions were to begin with or what was actually possible. Centrist compromises are often aweful and the resulting policies are sometimes worse but Democrats, unlike Republicans, are at least trying to govern the nation. Your false-equivalencies are getting tiresome.
    .
    FYI, pathological non-partisanship, like all psychopathologies, is bad for the intellect.

  • rdw56

    he just refused to allow tax rates to return to where they were the last time we had a functioning economy, in the 1990s.

    ************************************

    Paul refused? Then shouldn’t Obama grow a pair? He had massive majorities. He can’t pass even a 1% tax increase on just millionaires and It’s Paul Ryan’s fault? No denying you’re a lib.

  • pintortwo

    That Rodgers is in a pickle. He’s got the Heritage Foundation knocking his plan (@ $100 billion in cuts) because..
    .
    “Chairman Rogers’s release does not specify the security/nonsecurity breakdown, meaning his proposal will likely include the original $16 billion in cuts to security spending,” (posted on HF’s blog).
    .
    HF can’t endorse any plan that would deny $16 billion from the MIC. All establishment infrastructure will rally against cuts to defense spending. Rodgers will have to be prepared to fight off attacks from his right. Unless, of course, this is all for show.

  • rdw56

    This house is obviously controlled by the tea party and has no incentive to cave to a liberal President. They have every reason NOT to.

    One almost wonders if this was calculated to show the power the TP has over such a large bloc of the House. Boehner understands the power of a strong bench. It all helps him to have very strong voices such as Backmann and Noem to his right attracting all of the MSM heat and allowing him to appear the centrist. Moreover as they become popular figures it enhances their chances to advance to the Senate. Both are attractive, bright and ambitious.

  • rdw56

    These folks are not only idiots. they’re proud of it

    ****************************************

    Allow me to explain it to you Paul since it’s clearly over your head. The people who sent her to DC don’t want her to become an “insider”. They don’t want her getting along. They want her to cut spending $100B. And if you had a clue you’d know she’s thrilled the sound bite is getting national attention. She could not afford to pay for such priceless publicity. It might even get her on Fox.

  • pintortwo

    Yes, exactly like HCR. Candidate Obama often promised to only sign reform that included a public option -it was even on his campaign website. This was a popular campaign theme among the Dems. Yet when the time came that they could get it (reform was passed via reconciliation, if you recall), they abandoned it and blamed the Rs.
    .
    Or like robust banking reform, green jobs programs, ending the wars overseas (or even cuts to defense spending), closing Gitmo, reaching out to the Muslim world, progressive tax structure.. all either abandoned or compromised to the point of near ineffectiveness.
    .
    Ineffectiveness should not be celebrated or mistaken for “trying”.

  • rdw56

    And it was a lie. They are not going to do it.

    *******************************************************

    Well, it appears they have done it. Or are on the verge of doing it. As long as they pass a bill with the cuts they’ve met the pledge. If and when the Senate takes some out that’s fine. There are nearly a dozen Democrats running below 50%. Let then vote for spending increases. They’ll help their re-election chances.

  • http://gum0nshoe.wordpress.com gumOnShoe

    I don’t think Boehner could ever really look like a centrist at this point. He won’t be given the option. He’ll either be a failure at maintaining his caucus or he’ll be viewed as Right of center & opposed to the Obama Administration (which has been drifting rightward with every day)…

  • afguy

    Don’t even know where to start on that, not even going to try…
    .
    But I now feel like I need a shower…
    .
    Best summary I’ve seen in a while on cold-blooded political calculus without a hint of any constructive legislative philosophy behind it.

  • newfreedomblog

    The Tea Party pressure will be massive. I have already sent out emails to those in my group to put the pressure on those Senators who will potentially vote to send it back to the House. Wait and see, my friends, wait and see.
    .
    Perhaps we will see more retiring from Washington politics, and a return of representation back to the people. Too bad our friends on the left are too meek and stupid to see the hand writing on the wall.

  • pintortwo

    We’ll see. I think, and my comment suggests this, that the biggest obstacle to enacting significant spending cuts (and it is possible, IMO) will come from the Republican party. Consider this (h/t mcoville @ 10):
    .
    Defying Republican orthodoxy, (Rand) Paul has called for steep cuts in defense spending. Picking a fight with the pro-Israel lobby, he is seeking an end to all foreign aid, including aid to the U.S. ally. -link
    .
    He is going to have to fight the establishment in his own party to cut spending in a meaningful yet responsible way.

  • newfreedomblog

    Please Phone these Six Members of Congress Right Now
    ACTION ALERT:
    .
    TPP has learned that the defunding of Obamacare is NOT in the Continuing Resolution currently in process!
    .
    We need you to call the GOP members of the House Rules Committee (where the first vote is expected in the next 24 hrs) immediately and urge them to support Rep. Steve King’s amendment to defund Obamacare.
    .
    The GOP members of the Rules Committee, and their office phone numbers are:
    .
    Pete Sessions, TX-32 (202) 225-2231
    .
    Virginia Foxx, NC-5 (202) 225-2071
    .
    Rob Bishop, UT-1 (202) 225-0453
    .
    Rob Woodall, GA-7 (202) 225-4272
    .
    Richard Nugent, FL-5 (202) 225-1002
    .
    Tim Scott, SC-1 (202) 225-3176
    .
    Daniel Webster, FL-8 (202) 225-2176
    .
    Keep the pressure on and hold the GOP to its promises!
    .
    Here’s what I say when I call,
    .
    “Hi I’d like to register my opinion on something. Please ask the Congressman to support Steve King’s amendment to defund Obamacare in the continuing resolution. Thank you.”
    .
    They may also ask for your name and address. There’s no need to dodge this question. Just answer politely and move on to the next call.
    .
    The goal is to have such a dramatic volume of calls on the subject that the message is clearly sent.
    .
    Thank you for all you do Tea Party Patriots!!

  • shepherdwong

    As long as they pass a bill with the cuts they’ve met the pledge.”
    .
    See: [t]hey also know that they have the most easily-fooled, authoritarian-following morons the world has ever assembled. They’re so reliable, they even fool themselves.

  • rdw56

    One can easily oppose Obama and still be a centrist, especially on spending. Boehner will be viewed as a centrist if he has the hard core TP on his right and the moderates to his left. He’s already there. The way the story broke he was going to deliver less than $100B and the TP refused it. He can’t pass anything without them. It’s a clear example of his right forcing a change in tactics.

  • shepherdwong

    Ineffectiveness should not be celebrated or mistaken for “trying”.
    .
    Neither should it be celebrated or mistaken for “lying”.

  • nflfoghorn

    Afguy – REEEEAL rhetorical. ;)

  • bobcn1

    ‘Ignorance sold as a virtue.’
    .
    Exactly. There are several cliches that just never seem to get old:
    .
    1. That ignorance of Washington somehow makes one virtuous (rather than merely ignorant).
    .
    2. That government needs to be ‘run like a business’ (rather than being run ‘like a government’).
    .
    3. That you can always make ‘across the board’ cuts (thereby avoiding having to actually determine the affects of the proposed cuts).
    .
    Anytime you hear a politician resort to one of these hack cliches watch out.

  • rdw56

    He is going to have to fight the establishment in his own party to cut spending in a meaningful yet responsible way

    ********************************************

    He has no power. He can advocate cuts in aid to Israel all he wants but he’s got a coalition of one. Fortunately he wants plenty of other cuts. He’ll vote to zero out NPR, PBS, NEH, Planned Parenthood, hi-speed train, etc.

  • freeinpa

    “”When asked how the $35 billion in cuts fulfills their pledge of $100 billion”
    .
    Now is this $35 billion the same cuts the Democrats were calling draconian?

  • rdw56

    Simple tactical politics. Put before the Senate a bill with $100B in spending cuts and let Senate democrats vote to increase spending. That’ll be a great record to run on in 2012. Ben Nelson has probably already lost but this would absolutely end his career.

  • afguy

    free,
    .
    It’s entirely possible for $35B in targeted cuts to be more draconian than $100B in “across the board” cuts.
    .
    Especially to the target.

  • shepherdwong

    The goal is to have such a dramatic volume of calls on the subject that the message is clearly sent.
    .
    Do you have to be a Teatard to call? I, for one, would like to do everything in my power to see the Republicans try to fulfill your every dystopian dream.

  • rdw56

    That ignorance of Washington somehow makes one virtuous (rather than merely ignorant).

    ***************************************************

    You are going to have a very hard time getting used to the Tea Party. They really are calling the shots in the House. There were promises made and if not kept the people who made them will get fired. It’s not a matter of not knowing how DC works but of not falling into the trap of working their way. Meaning $35B in cuts isn’t $100M in cuts.

  • shepherdwong

    Simple tactical politics.
    .
    Except Republicans didn’t pledge to use simple tactical politics to force Democrats to go on record for spending increases they pledged to cut $100 billion from the FY’11 budget. What a useful, authoritarian-following idiot you are.

  • pintortwo

    Yes rdw, you’re probably right (and I could have worded it better, he has no power to make cuts). But I think he realizes, and I suspect a number of other newbee House Rs too, that in order to make significant cuts to gov’t spending, “NPR, PBS, NEH, Planned Parenthood, hi-speed train” ain’t gonna do it, they have to consider defense.. or fail.

  • newfreedomblog

    Absolutely call, we need all the extra voices we can get!

  • rdw56

    Except Republicans didn’t pledge to use simple tactical politics to force Democrats to go on record for spending increases they pledged to cut $100 billion from the FY’11 budget.

    *************************************

    This really isn’t hard. The House can’t pass a budget by itself. They can pass their House budget and then reconcile it with the Senate Budget and then with the President for his agreement. Each party has a level of control but neither total control. Thus the responsibility of Boehner is to pass a budget with $100B in cuts and then negotiate in good faith to get it all or as much as possible passed. If he does that he’s met his promise.

    The tactical advantage is just fallout. You may have noticed they passed a bill to repeal HC in the House and sent it to the Senate. Ben Nelson had to tell 70% of Nebraskans who want HC repealed to piss off. As you might image they will be reminded of that vote frequently during the Nov 2012 elections, if he makes it that far. Voting for spending increase is just something else he can run on.

  • newfreedomblog

    Wongy’s new psychotic rants….
    .

    “What a useful, authoritarian-following idiot you are.”

    .
    Sit back and learn my little libtardo friend, we’ll show you what “authoritative” really means.
    .
    Any new Senators jumping ship lately? Any of them running scared?
    .
    Yea, us crazy authoritarian-followers. We sure just go blindly down the yellow brick road.
    .
    http://nomorecensorship.com/tag/democrat-william/
    .
    If anyone wants to understand what psychotic, authoritarian following really means. Watch this video.

  • bobcn1

    ‘You are going to have a very hard time getting used to the Tea Party.’
    .
    I think the teabaggers are going to have to get used to the fact that they don’t run Washington. The Democrats control the Senate. And they need to recognize that the nation chose a Democrat as President. Their footprint in Washington isn’t nearly as large as they would like to believe.
    .
    Unfortunately, I suspect some will attempt to force their will on the country by using hostage tactics in the House. They will threaten to harm the country with a shutdown if they don’t get their way. I fear that some are irresponsible enough to actually do it — no matter who gets hurt.

  • rdw56

    Paul can’t effect Israeli aid because he’s a coalition of one. But he is part of a large coalition for cutting spending. There he is important. Further, I can promise you, the cuts to NPR are small but it’s still real money and long past due. They will be cut. They might be zeroed out. There will also be cuts to the many dozen other liberal programs such as Planned Parenthood, Hi-speed rail, these bogus green-programs. etc.

  • rdw56

    they have to consider defense.. or fail.

    *****************************************

    I think they will consider defense at a minimum reducing the growth in spending.

  • rdw56

    the Democrats were calling draconian?

    ***************************

    classic liberal over-reach. They really don’t get the sensitivity over the deficit AND the fact huge majorities see it as a spending issue. This budget is about 24%of GDP. Historically it’s closer to 20%. This is a $600B increase and they want to suggest $35B is draconian. This is liberal politics 101 but their timing is very poor.

  • freeinpa

    “It’s entirely possible for $35B in targeted cuts to be more draconian than $100B in “across the board” cut”
    .
    What is entirely possible for the left is that ANY budget cut would be considered draconian. Then at the same time scream that conservatives lied about not cutting more.
    .
    We have heard many times in the past that cuts in the rater of growth were draconian cuts– not actual $ cuts just cuts in the rate of increase.

  • truevcu

    On a humorous note, please tell me I’m not the only one who hears Dr. Evil in their head when they read the post title :P

  • rdw56

    I think the teabaggers are going to have to get used to the fact that they don’t run Washington

    ***************************************************

    They don’t want to run Washington. They want to put Washington on budget. And they will succeed. The 24% of GDP budget is absurd. It will be rolled back to near 19.5% over time. Their advantage in the house is they control the minority party and in the Senate enough votes for a filibuster. Obama won’t pass another liberal bill. A showdown is unlikely. At a minimum they’ll pass continuing resolutions. If there were a showdown it would be much different. Boehner is not Newt and with the emergence of the New Media Obama can’t count on blaming the House and he is the one with the $1.5T deficit. A liberal congress passed this budget.

  • freeinpa

    Speaking of conservatives lying.. It seems that a few days back the left here was screaming just that about jobs losses from ObamaCare. Republicans were throwing out numbers like 650,000 and folks were calling them liars.
    .
    At the time I provided a calculation from the report the CBO did issue. They couched it in terms of percentage and I did the simple math to show it might be higher than that..

    Well it seems the Repubs did lie. The CBO in Congressional testimony today put the number at 800,000. Maybe it should be renamed “Job Killer Health Care”. I guess the bright side as Obama kicks people out of work they can have tax payer subsidized HC. But I have the feeling they would rather keep the job.

    Congressional Budget Office (CBO) Director Doug Elmendorf confirmed Thursday during a House Budget Committee hearing that President Barack Obama’s health care law will likely cost 800,000 jobs, the Weekly Standard reported.

    “[I]t’s been argued…that the new health care law will create jobs and increase labor force participation,” said House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan. “But if I recall from your analysis, it was quite the opposite. Is that not the case?”

    “Yes,” replied Elmendorf.

    Elmendorf agreed with Republican California Rep. John Campbell’s claim that the health care law would reduce employment by 800,000.

    “Yes,” Elmendorf said. “The way I would put it is that we do estimate, as you said, that…employment will be about 160 million by the end of the decade. Half a percent of that is 800,000.”

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/10/cbo-obamacare-would-reduce-an-estimated-800000-jobs/#ixzz1DakSNQ9f

  • pintortwo

    There will also be cuts to the many dozen other liberal programs such as Planned Parenthood, Hi-speed rail, these bogus green-programs. etc…. I think they will consider defense at a minimum reducing the growth in spending.
    .
    While I’m sure that this is what the R party wants, I don’t think it will work. Many of these “liberal programs” are popular and may not be so easy to cut. I’m sure many R reps would like to keep some of them for their constituents. Even if there is a will to ax these plans, there just isn’t enough there for the new Rs to fulfill their campaign pledges without employing real cuts to defense.
    .
    In fact, I doubt the TP will let them get away with NOT cutting defense and aid to foreign nations. We saw “liberal apathy” be a huge factor, along with an invigorated right, in this last election. The last thing the R party wants is for disappointed TPers to stay home next elections.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    This budget is about 24%of GDP.

    And everyone loves to ignore the abrupt drop in the GDP.
    .
    Recession? What recession? Lets lay off Government workers en-masse! That’s SURE to help, right?

  • rdw56

    That should tell you how powerful and independent. They are more powerful because they are independent. They exist to get spending under control. They have made it clear to the folks they helped elect if they don’t get it done they’ll replace them in 2012. They’ll go after the rest. Let’s face it, if you are a conservative in a red state and you lose the TP you are toast. So while Boehner himself is safe he gets his majority is not safe. He gets he has a job for life if he keeps the TP motivated and on his side.

    This is how they get the Nebraska seat and how the got Webb to retire. The Tea Party is nationals. Nelson is facing a well financed primary opponent running as a fiscal conservative and he might survive but it’s going to be an expensive and full time campaign. Then he’ll face a much better known and respect and funded Conservative inthe general. Last week he was down in the polls to two different opponents by 51% to 40% and 48% to 41%. That’s death. This was before he voted for HC and he’s going to vote for higher deficits.

    There are at least 6 other Senators in his situation the Tea Party is getting ready for. When you look at their financial commitments and the fact they’ll have bruising primaries meaning spending most of 2012 campaigning and then knowing these votes make losing more likely? Wow, not a good hand to play.

    Just flash forward to 2013. The GOP will keep the house easily with redistricting helping them add seats. The GOP can be 90% surge they have the Conrad, Webb and Nelson seats. That’s 50-50 and they have very solid shots at another 6 or 7.

  • rdw56

    everyone loves to ignore the abrupt drop in the GDP

    **********************************************

    Because the increase was due largely to spending increases such as the $800B stimulus, not a drop in GDP. Spending is far too high. That’s why there was no support for tax increases. This isn’t a tax problem it’s a spending problem.

  • rdw56

    Many of these “liberal programs” are popular and may not be so easy to cut.

    ****************************************

    Actually they’re not popular. NPR and PBS are DNC subsidaries impossible to defend in an age of 1,000 stations. The NEH is far from loved and Planned Parenthood is depised by many. All can be funded by private charities. They are just the beginning. There are dozens of liberal programs that will at a minimum be frozen. HI-Speed rail was supposed to go from near $15B to near $55B. It will be cut. It makes no sense in the USA.

  • shepherdwong

    Each party has a level of control but neither total control.
    .
    And you think Republicans didn’t understand that when they were pledging to cut $100 billion from the FY’11 budget? Didn’t you? Or are just a right-wing-authoritarian-follower who will support and defend Republicans who lie to you every day, no matter what?

  • rdw56

    The last thing the R party wants is for disappointed TPers to stay home next elections.

    **************************************************

    The old time GOP don’t care for the TP. Boehner and Ryan apparently were ready to sell $35B in cuts and told to try again and got closer to $100B and told to keep trying until you get there.

    A point I’ve been trying to make is the TP isn’t just putting the GOP in control they’re doing a make over on the GOP. This isn’t the same party as 2008. Mitch McConnel made mistakes in the 2010 primary process not recognizing the depth of emotion over spending. You can bet in 2012 there will be a lot of communication between the state tea party and the national tea party with their GOP counterparts. They both want to avoid a repeat of Delaware and Nevada.

    As far as post 2012 you can bet every house member now in office because they were supported by the TP only gets to keep their seat if they keep their religion. If there are strays the TP will unseat them. As far as the Senate McConnell is putting a clinic on Reid. Two Senators have retired due to TP pressure and there might be two more. At least 6 are going to have the hardest task of their careers and some will lose. The GOP will get the majority back and probably to 52-53-54. The Nelson-Webb and Conrad seats are all but lost. McCaskill and Casey are weak. Of those 53, 47 will be staunch conservatives and 3 will be fairly reliable. Scott Brown and the Maine Twins will be the moderates. Obama won’t be able to pass anything remotely liberal. It’s only after 2012 they really get total control.

    BTW: It’s more obvious than ever Obama made poor choices for the SCOTUS. Even if he wins in 2012 no one is planning on leaving before 2016. The only one with health issues is Ginsburg. If she were to leave for heath reason a pick like her or Kagan or Sotomayer would be filibustered, He’ll have to appoint a true moderate. Roberts and Alito are intellectual stars. Sotomayer and Kagan are mediocrities.

  • rdw56

    And you think Republicans didn’t understand that when they were pledging to cut $100 billion from the FY’11 budget

    **************************************************

    I think everyone understood but you. This isn’t remotely complicated. Obama promised to close Gitmo. He failed. He didn’t lie. We expect Boehner to try and cut $100B from the budget.

    You might not have known this but most5th graders so. He is speaker of the house. It’s not King John. It’s speaker John. We have this thing called co-equal branches and one of them has two houses. John is the leader of one house. That’s all he can do. He can’t control the Senate or Obama.

  • Paul-no not that one

    I think you might be over-estimated the juice the TPers have across the board but as far as ability to run the republican party I agree with you.

  • shepherdwong

    I think everyone understood but you. This isn’t remotely complicated. Obama promised to close Gitmo. He failed.
    .
    The obvious difference being that Obama couldn’t have possibly known what would happen to prevent him from closing Gitmo and, as you suggest, everyone beyond the 5th grade knew that Republicans were lying when they said they’d cut $100 billion from the FY’11 budget. The difference again being that you voted for people you knew were lying to you and everyone else to get themselves elected to public office and you support them still. This isn’t remotely complicated.

  • shepherdwong

    Wow, four lies in four sentences. Nice work.
    .
    The deficit is the direct product of the Bush wars, the Bush tax cuts and the bi-partisan economic recession. Here it is in a simple graph in case you’re just too ignorant or stupid to know what you’re talking about:
    .
    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036

  • rdw56

    You are arguing with yourself. The reason the GOP had it’s best election in 80 years is spending. At 24% of GDP it’s far too high. Plus the spending for the stimulus failed totally.

    This is why we have a tea party and why that tea party is calling the shots.

  • rdw56

    wong, you really don’t to get to upset over this. The fact is these people are going to be lying to people like me for a very long time because I’m going to be voting for them a very long time. It’s seems to bother you. I’m fine with it.

  • bobcn1

    ‘Plus the spending for the stimulus failed totally.’
    .
    That is popular right wing rhetoric. It is also not true.

  • shepherdwong

    The fact is these people are going to be lying to people like me for a very long time because I’m going to be voting for them a very long time. It’s seems to bother you. I’m fine with it.
    .
    Actually, that was my point in the first place. You’re a right-wing-authoritarian-following tool who will reliably vote for Republicans who lie to you constantly. The issue is that it doesn’t seem to bother you at all, you’re actually proud of it. I admit, that does bother me some.

  • shepherdwong

    You are arguing with yourself.
    .
    No, for some reason, I’m arguing with a right-wing-authoritarian-following liar and/or idiot (on a Thursday, no less).
    .
    The GOP had a great election result because of the jobless recession and Democrats’ control of the Congress and White House, not government spending.
    .
    The percentage of GDP isn’t too high for a terrible recession.
    .
    The stimulus saved the country from far, far worse than we got.
    .
    You have a Tea Party because of thirty years of traitorous anti-liberal, anti-Democratic and anti-government lies and because of the shellacking Republicans received at the hands of Democrats in 2006 and 2008. Made you guys really mad, didn’t it?
    .
    And now you’re up to ten lies in nine sentences. You’re improving your average at least.

  • rdw56

    It’s a really good time for them. We are pretty well divided ideologically. While there are 2x’s as many conservatives as liberals democrats have higher registrations. So it doesn’t take a huge independent bloc to play Kingmaker. And polls show the TP is somewhere near 20% – 25%. That’s not small.

    They’re also advantaged by being grass roots without a central leadership. There is no one to take over. It will remain grassroots. People like Michele Backman will be their star but only as long as she remains as she is. They’re not married to her. she is married to them. Yet they are national in that when they target specific candidates those candidates get money from all over. The DNC targeted Michele by generously funding her opponent. Because her base is national she swamped them.

    As you agree, they can drive the GOP. Well the GOP owns the house and it seems pretty obvious they’re going to get the Senate.

    Worse for you, and I think you’ll agree with me on this, this is a very conservative freshman class. Rubio, Toomey, Lee, Portman, Boozman, etc. All ran specifically on fiscal conservatism.

    I’m from PA. We elected a conservative Senator, Governor and picked up 5 seats and own both of the state houses. Sen Casey is a non-entity who only won in 2006 due to the climate. As you can imagine all of the ambitious conservatives in the state are looking to get the GOP nomination to meet Casey. Obviously if they get TP support they have a huge edge. For all practical purposes the GOP primary has become a ‘moderates need not apply’ process. There are at least two attractive GOP candidates positioning themselves and word is the TP is recruiting a primary opponent for Casey. I don’t see how Casey can defend his votes.

    Obama should still be considered the favorite but he’s going to have a GOP Congress and it will be the most conservative in history.

  • rdw56

    The stimulus saved the country from far, far worse than we got

    ***************************************************************

    The stimulus did no such thing. It bailed out a lot of state and local pension plans. The stimulus and the HC bill spooked business and they stopped hiring. Obama extended the recession just as the New Deal extended the depression. Look, the man never so much as took an econ course or worked in the private sector. One of the 1st things he did after getting elected was to trash the economy. The man is clueless economically. There is a reason he was perceived as anti-business.

  • rdw56

    The percentage of GDP isn’t too high for a terrible recession.

    ******************************

    Actually GDP didn’t fall very far and has recovered. It’s not GDP. Spending is outrageously high and it’s going to come down.

  • bobcn1

    ‘I guess the bright side as Obama kicks people out of work…

    CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf told the House Budget Committee on Thursday that the health care law will reduce employment by 0.5 percent by 2021 because some people will no longer have to work just to afford health insurance.

    “That means that if the reduction in the labor used was workers working the average number of hours in the economy and earning the average wage, that there would be a reduction of 800,000 workers,” Elmendorf said in an exchange with Rep. John Campbell (R-CA).

    Sometimes it amazes me just how dishonest some wingnuts are willing to be. When the CBO director states that people will finally have the ability to choose to retire without worrying about losing their employer provided health insurance, the wingnuts call it ‘kicking people out of work’.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “And polls show the TP is somewhere near 20% – 25%. That’s not small.”
    .
    That number includes many (most? Do you have a breakdown handy I do not) who were already voting republican so the impact is much smaller in a general election.
    .
    “People like Michele Backman will be their star but only as long as she remains as she is. They’re not married to her. she is married to them.”
    .
    This is an interesting point. Not so much as to Bachmann-I have followed her since she was in the Minnesota state house and she was TP before there was TP-but for many others. Scott Brown springs to mind.
    .
    “For all practical purposes the GOP primary has become a ‘moderates need not apply’ process.”
    .
    I agree, and not just in Pennsylvania, but I’m not sure that will be to the republicans favor. From Connecticut (O’Donnell) to Minnesota ( Emmer) to Alaska (Miller, although of course the seat stayed with the republican incumbent) the republican primary cost likely/to locked victories.
    .
    But no question the TP is running the republican party right now.
    .
    Also I agree with your take on Casey and BHO’s chances in 2012.

  • robbert5

    No you troll, it is tax revenue! Spending is not ourageously high other than that we are fighting 2 wars and are still paying for the lowest tax rates in the last 60 years!!!!!!! Having to keep the economy going by increased government spending doesn’t help nor does all the unemployment checks, but all this will become alot better when the repugs finally start to address job creation instead of deficits one can only hope.

  • rdw56

    That is popular right wing rhetoric. It is also not true.

    ************************************

    It is true. Most of the money that went to the states went into public pension funds. It just wasn’t stimulative. Plus as Obama eventually admitted there is no such thing as shovel ready. We’ve had a very poor, unbalanced recovery. At this point in 1983 we had 7% GDP growth and were adding 300k jobs per month.

  • rdw56

    That number includes many (most? Do you have a breakdown handy I do not) who were already voting republican so the impact is much smaller in a general election.

    *********************************************

    I don’t have a breakdown and I’m sure at least half are conservatives who are not so much interested in converting independents and are not swing voters but want to make sure the republicans we nominate and elect remain true to conservatism. For them this is about party discipline.

    It’s the other half that fascinates me. My “half” estimate is pure guess. My sense is a lot of people who call themselves independent do it more out of the frustration of being part of a party and then being disappointed. Or as in the case of those who are fiscally conservatives but moderate or liberal on social issues don’t want to be seen as a republican and based on the heirarchy of issues and quality of the candidate will swing from election to election.
    I think because the TP has been fairly limited to fiscal issues they are attracting some of these people.

    I think those who are generally conservative on all issues are 40% while liberal are 20%. Of the remaining 40% I’d bet a majority are fiscally conservative and socially liberal rather than the reverse. Meaning the ‘addressable market’ for the TP is as much as 60% of the population.

    I think McCain got 46% of the vote. The TP only has to attract 4.01% over and above the natural conservative base, meaning above already inclined to vote GOP.

    That’s why I think the TP is in a sweet spot. They get 5M swing voters in a national election to swing they can play kingmaker.

    It may be better than that. I still think normal is the 2000 and 2004 election cycle. Obama benefited from Bush fatigue and a bad GOP candidate.

  • rdw56

    Not so much as to Bachmann-I have followed her since she was in the Minnesota state house and she was TP before there was TP-but for many others. Scott Brown springs to mind.

    *********************************************************

    I think Michele is the real deal. Just that there are so many opportunists who will be what they think they need to be to get elected. They will find out if they get elected by the Tea Party and forget why the TP will come after them. In fact they’ll go after them harder than liberals. I respect an honest lib. You elect a lib and they act liberal not much to complain about there. Elect a fiscal conservative and he increases spending he must be made an example of. He has to go. The TP will make them public enemy #1.

    I think Scott Brown stays but this is where the TP scares me. I shared Rove’s rage over what happened in Del. It would have been somewhat understandable if they had a decent substitute. I am counting on two things happening and it might be too much to ask:

    #1 – the GOP work with the TP. When they recruit make sure the TP agrees. A hard primary benefits no one.

    #2 – The TP work with the GOP and recognize when they can’t win. I don’t have confidence on this one. My hope as far as Scott Brown is the TP is invisible in New England.

  • shepherdwong

    Don’t bother, he’s either a pathological liar or someone who fervently believes every single lie fed to him by his right-wing authority figures.

  • paulejb

    Paul Dirks@2,
    .
    The last 40 years of history of how Washington DC does things leaves very little to be desired. It is about time that a new broom sweeps the old ways out.
    .
    It is no longer a resume enhancer to be well acquainted with the special pleaders, the favor dispensers or those with bags of unidentifiable cash.

  • paulejb

    gumOnShoe@7.1,
    .
    Maybe not this time. 2012 will see a number of Democrats up for re-election in red states. Two of them have already thrown in the towel. Can’t see the others wanting to go on record as big spenders, can you?

  • paulejb

    shepherdwong@9.1,

    Wong, do you exist in a universe where everybody is a “moron” except you? That is truly sad, if true.

  • paulejb

    Paul-no…@11,
    .
    And just how well have those old Washington ways been doing? If memory serves, they gave us the “Louisiana Purchase,” the Nebraska Corn Husker Hustle,” and numerous other bribes and special favors to buy recalcitrant Democrat votes for the Obamacare abomination. This was all capped off with special favors for union Cadillac health plans. Who says that donations can’t get a Democrat to sit up and bark.

    It is time that the old ways of Washington DC be buried and forgotten.

  • rdw56

    BTW: Obama will be beatable if we get a good candidate. My choice is Jeb Bush. Obama really is an interesting case of being charismatic but not very good. His personal polls are well above his issues polls. He’s a very likeable guy and people want him to succeed.

    On the other hand he’s got a lot of tactical problems with the congressional make-up , budget issues, employment, debt and I think foreign policy will eventually become a problem.

    I’m a finance guy and amateur economist. There are a lot of solid signs of economic growth returning at a healthy rate but it’s still a bit unbalance among sectors and geographically. But there are problems such as energy, HC and more federal activism. Obama had finally figured out he needs to be a cheerleader and at least appear to be working with business. He’s been sitting on 4 free trade bills he started blocking as a Senator. He’s blocking drilling in the gulf and not advancing it anywhere. When you declare war on business. You lose. My own suspicion is that employment will remain sticky and a net negative.
    .
    The budget issue is critical. His recent move to the center is purely superficial. He’s got to cut spending. Since he’s increased funding for hi-speed trains from $7B to $57B I don’t think he’s got a clue as to what’s going on out there.

    The way I think it plays out is the pressure will be on spending and the deficit and because Democrats have the Senate they can’t portray as it as Obama versus Congress. They’ll try Obama versus the House but that’s weak. Reid sucks and he’s got a bad hand. He’s got 53 Senators but at least 6 will lose their jobs if they vote for spending or tax increases and another 6 have to wonder.

    So far, and it’s way too early, I think the GOP is doing well. Much of what they do will be designed to get these 6 to 12 Senators to take votes that might end their careers. The vote last week to repeal healthcare was doomed to fair but far from useless. The sole purpose was to force Democrats to vote again for HC. That’s going to hurt Bob Casey in PA and it can’t help Obama.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Firstly, thanks for the polite correction “I shared Rove’s rage over what happened in Del.”
    .
    Conn? Del? All those states are so small on the map!
    .
    “Or as in the case of those who are fiscally conservatives but moderate or liberal on social issues don’t want to be seen as a republican and based on the heirarchy of issues and quality of the candidate will swing from election to election.”
    .
    I think that’s a pretty good observation, although we likely disagree as to what fiscally conservative is, as do the voters.
    .
    Some are income tax driven some are balanced budget driven some are corporate tax driven some are long term some are short term. You get my point.
    .
    Of the two points you make at the end I think the first is likely. The second I’m not too sure about. After all the TP took credit for Brown’s victory. Which would suggest some strength in that part of the country.
    .
    Maine may be a good test.
    .
    We’ll have a lot more answers than questions next year.

  • paulejb

    robbert5,

    In case you have not been keeping score, the Obama administration has increased non defense discretionary spending by 24%. It went from $434 billion in the last year of the Bush administration to $537 billion in 2010. Just roll back the spending to 2008 levels and Voila! You have your $100 billion in cuts, n’est-ce pas?

  • shepherdwong

    Most of the money that went to the states went into public pension funds. It just wasn’t stimulative.
    .
    Most of the stimulus money went tax cuts, which “conservatives” claim are always stimulative, unless they’re being cut by a Democrat or benefit the working class (which are actually stimulative, unlike tax cuts for the rich). So now we know that you’re a hypocrite as well.
    .
    http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/15/stimulus-pie-chart/

  • paulejb

    shepherdwong@18.2,
    .
    Your assumption, that everyone around you is lying, is an indication pf severe paranoia.

  • paulejb

    shepherdwong@18.2,
    .
    Your assumption, that everyone around you is lying, is an indication of severe paranoia.

  • Paul-no not that one

    8.7 has more supposition than I feel comfortable arguing.
    .
    That said, the Bush brand is still too toxic -I think- for Jeb to make a move next year.
    .
    He won’t run.

  • shepherdwong

    Paul, everyone around me tells the truth most of the time. It’s the people around you who are constantly lying. Just like you.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Yeah. Got to watch out for all those greedy special interests like:

    http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/

  • shepherdwong

    Wong, do you exist in a universe where everybody is a “moron” except you?
    .
    I perceive that I exist in a universe with just enough morons to create a constant, pernicious gravitational force that pulls all of the rest of us inexorably toward your cramped, dark, murderous constellation. Yes, it’s quite sad.

  • rdw56

    we are fighting 2 wars and are still paying for the lowest tax rates in the last 60 year

    ***********************************************

    We are not fighting two wars. The current top tax rate is 35%.
    It was 28% under Reagan and I think 33% under Bush 1.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks
  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks
  • rdw56

    wong,

    You really need to chill. 1st -calling everyone who disagrees with you a liar is as childish as it is classless as it is stupid. 2nd – life is just too short.

    Do you really think any here gives a rat’s ass you think they’re a liar or not? Try to make an intelligent case for your side and grow out of the temper tantrum.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Or
    .
    http://www.epa.gov/

    All villians to the core……….

  • rdw56

    Something is wrong in this exchange. Bob, what’s your citation.

    You citation doesn’t make any sense. 800,000 workers leaving the workfroce doesn’t lower employment. It lowers the
    workforce.

    If I leave a job I have at home depot because I don’t need the HC all that means is I quit Home Depot. They’ll hire someone else. It has ZERO effect on employment.

    You didn’t doctor that clip did you?

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks
  • rdw56

    Slow down and read more carefully. I didn’t say most of the stimulus went to pension funds. I said most of the money that went to the states went to pension funds.

  • afguy

    shep,
    .
    Listen very carefully to commentary and you’ll see this has nothing to do with good government. It’s about winning.
    .
    Winning is about tax cuts and spending cuts. Period.
    .
    The discussion isn’t about seeking what’s best for the country. It’s warfare. Good campaign tactics have replaced good governmental policies. I see admiration for lying and shallow physical qualitifications for the candidates – it’s ALL about the winning.
    .
    Put simply – the ends justify the means when it comes to winning an election.
    .
    Karl Rove couldn’t have done it better.

  • rdw56

    After all the TP took credit for Brown’s victory. Which would suggest some strength in that part of the country.

    ******************

    Isn’t there an old adage, “victory has 1,000 fathers…. ” I don’t pretend to know New England well. I find Scot impressive in the way Obama is in terms of charisma and I think he’s much more of a natural. He’ll never be as conservative as I am and if he was we would not address him as “Senator”. Scott strikes me as a survivor who knows his state and in his case the TP doesn’t matter.

  • shepherdwong

    You’re right, I shouldn’t have overlooked that. If I’m going to expose one of your lies, I should expose them all:

    Most governors are still calculating how much they stand to get from the $787 billion stimulus package, which is expected to be approved by Congress late Friday. The majority of their allotments will go for Medicaid, education and infrastructure projects, but they will also have some funds to use at their own discretion.

    http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/13/news/economy/stimulus_states/index.htm

  • rdw56

    Great chart!

    Never saw that before. I’m such a econ/tax geek you’ll never guess the 1st thing I that stood out. “Now I know why so many conservatives admire Coolidge”.

  • shepherdwong

    Do you really think any here gives a rat’s ass you think they’re a liar or not?
    .
    Hey, I just call ‘em as I see ‘em, Sparky, just like you. The way I see it, you’re either a pathological liar or a willing idiot, having been presented with the actual facts of these matters. I’m putting you down as “tragically brainwashed right-wing-authoritarian-follower,” just to be kind.

  • rdw56

    The smallest allocation was infrastructure, medicare and education ARE PENSION FUNDS.

  • shepherdwong

    Winning is about tax cuts and spending cuts. Period.
    .
    It’s actually about beating liberals and Democrats. Period.
    .
    You give them too much credit, as if they have some sort of fixed set of values or concerns beyond their authoritarian compulsions and partisan bile.

  • rdw56

    That said, the Bush brand is still too toxic -I think- for Jeb to make a move next year

    **********************************************

    I think that’s vastly overstated. The people who hated GWB would never vote Red anyway. Jeb is a very different guy and quite capable. You probably weren’t aware but in 2000 most conservatives wanted Jeb not George. He did a fine job as Governor, is very smart, articulate and has a good personality.

    I don’t think he runs either but it has to do with family issues not his brother. Actually it’s almost shocking how different they are. Jeb is actually more like Bill Clinton. Not Bubba but the Bill the wonk. Jeb is an authentic wonk.

  • artraveler

    The Democrats need to be sure that the cuts are made visible to the American people in the states that will be hit. Cutting back NOAA and coastal protection means that the Republican south may be looking for local governments to handle another overdue Katrina-type storm. Maybe Florida, maybe South Carolina? Hopefully not NOLA again.

    The national Chamber of Commerce has a long list of generic drugs they want approved by an FDA that needs people but are going to take a hit instead. Tainted food and drugs anyone?

    Cutting back on medical clinics and helping the poor means that if a epidemic begins, it may not be detected in time but that probably isn’t an issue since they plan on a major cut an NIH. NIH researchers will do okay but the drugs they help develop will be in England or Germany or some other country that will hit out balance of payments and assure production jobs will be overseas also.

    Since almost every cut means people, I guess we can call it the Republican unemployment problem.

    Wait till Florida and Texas get the NASA cuts which will spread throughout the south through contractors and sub-contractors. Can’t keep the South riled up with anti-immigrant talk if the people are worrying about losing their jobs.

    The Republicans are right to see a budget problem-they cut the income to the government so much that the work that is necessary can’t be done. Taxes have NEVER been lower and yet they still scream.

    Start with your salaries. How about $30,000 or whatever the national average is as the salary for Congress? Cut out your medical and your pension and learn to live like the rest do.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “You probably weren’t aware but in 2000 most conservatives wanted Jeb not George.”
    .
    I was aware. You may recall Columba’s troubles in 1999 which ditched Jeb’s chances. After the “We are a nation of laws” arguments for the impeachment of Clinton that ended Jeb’s chance in 2000.
    .
    Jeb may be a talented politician-I say that in a good way-but he is cursed with terrible timing.

  • afguy

    This quotation from John Kenneth Galbraith is one of the best I’ve seen.

    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

    I hope that, at some point, they develop a degree of introspection about what they are actually saying and doing.

  • paulejb

    Paul Dirks@2.14, 2.15, @.16 & 2.17,
    .
    Just how much of Obama’s $3.69 trillion 2011 budget will your pet agencies be receiving? And are they too sacred to tighten their belts in a deficit crisis?

  • rdw56

    Some are income tax driven some are balanced budget driven some are corporate tax driven some are long term some are short term. You get my point.

    ************************************************

    I disagree but I may not have defined what I meant. I don’t mean conservative in a political sense. I mean in a budgetary sense, living within your means but not just balanced budgets. I think spending should be somewhere near 20% of GDP and spending choices should be how to best allocate that 20% not if it s/b 21% or 19%. Tax policy s/b designed how to best raise 20% revenues.

    As a political issue we know conservatives favor lower rates but I define fiscal conservatives as low spending / no deficits.

  • paulejb

    shepherdwong@9.20,
    .
    Did it never occur to you that you might be the problem? Maybe all those people whom you consider “morons” are in fact right while you are decidedly ill informed.

  • Paul-no not that one

    I’m not sure you did disagree but I appreciate you laying out your position.

  • paulejb

    shepherdwong@18.6,
    .
    But how do you know that you can trust the people around you, Wong? Maybe they are just setting you up. While you are concentrating on Rush, Beck and Palin, those people could be eating your lunch.
    .
    Remember Fox Mulder’s catch phrase “Trust no one.”

  • rdw56

    -I say that in a good way-but he is cursed with terrible timing.

    ****************************************************

    You are dead on about the timing but it was family issues. He had two very significant problems. His wife was uncomfortable in the spotlight and his daughter was at the time dealing with addiction issues. Not the matter of scandal but Jeb, as a Dad, was not wiling to expose his daughter to the MSM. They would have been horrific.

    The Clinton thing would not have hurt him at all.

  • paulejb

    shepherdwong@20,
    .
    Well, no. But that is a beneficial side effect. Liberal Democrat politicians insist on picking our wallets.

  • paulejb

    shepherdwong@20,
    .
    Well, no. But that is a beneficial side effect. Liberal Democrat politicians insist on picking our pockets.

  • rdw56

    wong,

    there’s no logic or intelligence here. There’s no coherent argument supporting your side. This is just name calling. It’s childish.

    You are calling it as you see it. That’s nice. Aside from you and your Mommy who cares how you see it? Explain WHY you see it that way and maybe you can have some influence.

  • rdw56

    You do realize this old lion of the left died almost invisibly after having been demolished intellectually by Reagan?

    It was JKG who made the intellectual attack from the left of Reagans economic and anti-communism policies explaining that we needed to learn how to get along with Russia and socialism because it was just as viable as the USA and Capitalism. He was a fan of 90% tax rates.

    Reagan beat the piss out of him. Think about how cool for a conservative. Galbraith was a Harvard Economist. He got his brains beat in by a Eureka econ grad.

  • Paul-no not that one

    I was speaking more to this-
    .
    http://www.sptimes.com/News/62299/State/Gov_Bush_says_his_wif.shtml
    .
    With regard to the tenor of the times. That’s is “No one is above the law”
    .
    It was minor and silly in today’s judgement (just as things that are blown up today will seem trivial in a few years if not months) but at the time that was the death blow for Jeb which brought W into the fore.

  • afguy

    rdw,
    .
    OK, you attacked the author. Nothing surprising there.
    .
    Care to comment on the validity of the quote?

  • freeinpa

    “will finally have the ability to choose to retire without worrying about losing their employer provided health insurance, the wingnuts call it ‘kicking people out of work”
    .
    I think th elie you are referring to is” if you like your insurance you can keep it”. That became a joike before Obama’s signature was dry on that awful bill.

  • freeinpa

    “Hey, I just call ‘em as I see ‘em, Sparky”
    .
    Hope your mandatory insurance plan includes an opthamologist

  • afguy

    I’d go easy on the “Reagan as an intellectual giant” bit…
    .
    Remember “supply-side economics”? David Stockman knew it was a joke. Your hero, who supposedly “destroyed” Galbraith, couldn’t figure that out.
    .
    “Star Wars” started out as a negotiating ploy against the Soviets. The technology didn’t exist. But HE thought it did and insisted it be funded.
    .
    20+ years later and heaven’s knows how much in funding, and it STILL isn’t a viable technology. It was never intended to defend against low-level attacks or weapons delivered in the back of trucks (today’s threats). The USSR no longer exists as our main threat. But I’m sure a few defense contractors have made a fortune off of the research and over-runs.
    .
    Your “intellectual giant” couldn’t figure out that they were selling military items to Iran out of the basement of the White House, even when the evidence was laid in front of him. IIRC, his defense was that he wasn’t being told and had to be portrayed as a lovable but confused old man.
    .
    Given the degree to which Alzheimer’s was affecting his activities toward the end of his administration, the “confused old man” part might not have been much of an act.
    .
    His subordinates and wife were nothing if not loyal and protective.

  • rdw56

    We”ll just have to disagree and leave it at that. This didn’t hurt Jeb at all among conservatives. You seem to be suggesting because Jeb’s wife did something illegal Jeb wasn’t in a position to criticize Clinton for doing so. That’s absurd.

    Jeb’s daughter got caught in some kind of prescription drug scam and it was a 2nd episode and the entire family had to deal with the issue. It wasn’t much of a choice for Jeb to know putting his family in the sights of the MSM at that time would be destructive to his family. He made the decision as a dad.

  • rdw56

    Sure, quintessential liberal. Petty and wrong. You have to remember JKG was a major economic advisor to FDR and Turman when tax rates were 90% and price controls were in effect. This was a time of shortages and rationing. Along comes Reagan and he blows everything JKG stood for his entire life right out of the water.

    Here is a quick story of Reagan’s huge advantage over Galbraith and Obama regarding economics. As a very successful actor in a 90% tax rate Reagan and all of his peers limited themselves to 6 months of work. When you get into the 90% tax bracket why go to work? Reagan didn’t. Bogard didn’t. None of them did. How friggin stupid is that? Having lived in the real world Reagan understood the corrosive impact of absurd tax rates.

  • http://milascurtains.wordpress.com milascurtains

    rdw56 – that’s not bad to want to cut 100 bln…in theory.
    But should they ynderstand – what they are cutting, or they need just Magic 100?
    Oh, I forgot, they “actually don’t care” .

    Now we see teenager’s mentality in GOP’s house.
    And please, don’t tell me, that Kristi is “sort of smart” – people with brains usually care – what they are and what they are doing.

    The ones with Brains, not sarah-christine-angel-kristi- Cowards.

  • bobcn1

    Here’s how the Weekly Standard (link) describes the CBO estimate: “CBO Director Says Obamacare Would Reduce Employment by 800,000 Workers”:
    .
    And here’s Fox’s version (link) that is titled “CBO Director: Obama Health Law Will Cost 800,000 Jobs”
    .
    And finally, here’s Politco’s version of the CBO estimate (link).

    CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf told the House Budget Committee on Thursday that the health care law will reduce employment by 0.5 percent by 2021 because some people will no longer have to work just to afford health insurance.

    .
    The Politico article goes on to describe how republicans have twisted the CBO report into “more bad news for American families”.
    .
    The republicans are lying to you. When people are given the freedom to leave jobs if they wish, because they no longer must work to afford health insurance, it is a good thing. It is not ‘costing’ the country jobs and it is not ‘bad news for American families’.

  • rdw56

    learn how to read you twit. It’s costing JOBS. It’s a very bad thing. You are as dumb as a rock.

  • rdw56

    what they are cutting,

    **************************************************

    NPR, PBS, NEH, HI-Speed train, Green energy garbage, ethanol subsidies, etc.,

  • bobcn1

    What part of ‘…because some people will no longer have to work just to afford health insurance’ do you not understand? Twit.

  • rdw56

    I didn’t attack JKG. I attacked his economics. There isn’t a suggestion about the man himself one way or the other.

  • rdw56

    Re: $100 Billion
    February 11, 2011 10:09 A.M.
    By Rich Lowry

    Don’t miss Andrew’s great piece, which he mentioned earlier, on how the revolt over the $100 billion built:

    Rep. Jim Jordan (R., Ohio) and other members of the Republican Study Committee promised to introduce an amendment that would tack on an additional $42 billion in cuts in order to hit $100 billion. Then came the first rumblings of a genuine revolt. On Tuesday evening, the House Appropriations Committee voted to move forward with a continuing resolution drafted using Ryan’s $58 billion in cuts. Even though the proposal passed the committee 27–22, two Republicans — Reps. Jeff Flake (R., Ariz.) and Cynthia Lummis (R., Wyo.) — cast “no” votes to protest the inadequacy of the cuts. In a further act of defiance, Flake filed a dissenting view in the committee’s report, a move that members of the majority party rarely make.

    rdw- Flake is almost certainly going to run for Senator.

  • rdw56

    couldn’t figure out that they were selling military items to Iran out of the basement of the White House, even when the evidence was laid in front of him. IIRC, his defense was that he wasn’t being told and had to be portrayed as a lovable but confused old man.
    ***********************

    Which, as you’ll recall, was quite effective. For all of the talk of impeachment all that happened is Oliver North became a hero, multi-millionaire and successful media figure. The wasn’t a single conviction. The only person to spend a day in jail was a protester.

  • rdw56

    20+ years later and heaven’s knows how much in funding, and it STILL isn’t a viable technology. It was never intended to defend against low-level attacks or weapons delivered in the back of trucks (today’s threats). The USSR no longer exists as our main threat. But I’m sure a few defense contractors have made a fortune off of the research and over-runs.

    *******************************************

    Great Story isn’t it? It keeps on giving. Neither Clinton nor Obama could kill it and now that NK and Iran have missile technology even the dolts in Europe support it now.

    BTW: You won’t know this but many consider Reagans finest hour when he nearly had a deal for missile reduction in Iceland when Gorby at the last minute insisted Reagan stop Star Wars. Liberals were not impressed but Gorby was. RR told him to cram it and walked away. Of course unlike Obama Reagan actually has real work experience including the President and negotiator for the SAG. He knew Gorby would be back. Sure enough within a year RR got his deal on his terms.

    All part of the lore. Think about how cool that is and the dilemma for the Historian. Even if liberals were mocking Star Wars the Soviets were terrified of it. It was a message to them, “you cannot compete, give it up”. And that’s how Reagan defeated the USSR without firing a shot freeing 300M from socialist tyranny.

    Star Wars is the best investment we’ve ever made. History is going to suck for you on this one.

  • rdw56

    Given the degree to which Alzheimer’s was affecting his activities toward the end of his administration, the “confused old man” part might not have been much of an act

    **********************************************

    Yeah, he must have been toast. Al he did at the end was the most prolific rewrite of the tax code in history lowering marginal rates to 28% and then negotiate the lastest missile reduction agreement in history. Gee, if he wasn’t senile he might have cured cancer.

  • rdw56

    Are Citizens United for George Allen? Well, These Citizens Are
    February 11, 2011 10:17 A.M.
    By Jim Geraghty

    Is it too early for endorsements in the now-open Senate seat in Virginia? Not for the Citizens United Political Victory Fund:

    Citizens United Political Victory Fund, the affiliated PAC of Citizens United, announced its endorsement of Governor George Allen in the Virginia Senate contest today. CUPVF contributed $5,000 to the Allen primary campaign to start the 2012 cycle.

    “Virginia will be the epicenter of the 2012 campaign,” said David N. Bossie, President of Citizens United. “George Allen is the true conservative in the race to take on the eventual Democrat nominee. Governor Allen has served the Commonwealth of Virginia with a steady conservative hand, and will bring those conservative values back to the United States Senate. Picking up the Virginia Senate seat is vital for Republicans to retake the majority in the United States Senate, and George Allen is the best candidate to achieve that goal.”

    CUPVF was a supporter in the 2010 primaries for the successful candidacies of Rand Paul, Pat Toomey, Marco Rubio, Kelly Ayotte, Rob Portman, Mark Kirk, and Roy Blunt. When CUPVF endorsed Paul and Rubio very early on, they were considered long shots.

    Citizens United is known for triggering the lawsuit that led to the Supreme Court case that dramatically changed the interpretation of the McCain-Feingold campaign-finance-reform law, eliminating restrictions on corporations and unions running political ads independently from candidates and their campaigns.

    The Republicans running for this seat include Allen and conservative activist Jamie Radtke.

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