Could the Senate Flip in 2012?

In the last three out of five elections one or both of the chambers of Congress has flipped. Are the waves over? And even if they are, could Dems lose the Senate in 2012 anyway?

On the face of it, Democrats have a tough cycle ahead of them. They hold the Senate with 53 seats right now, meaning Republicans only need to flip four to capture the majority – not an impossibly steep order.  Of the 33 seats up next November Democrats hold 23. The non-partisan Cook Political Report already rates six of those — Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Virginia and West Virginia — toss up. Another three — Florida, Missouri and Ohio – are in trouble. Five of these eight vulnerable seats are in states President Obama lost in 2008, rendering his coattails very short. Senate Dems have gotten off to sluggish starts in recruitment and fundraising. Thus far only two Democrats, North Dakota’s Kent Conrad and Joe Lieberman of Connecticut (who is an Independent who caucuses with the Dems), have announced their retirements. But Jim Webb in Virginia is mum on his plans for reelection and there’s speculation that Nebraska’s Ben Nelson may not run again – both tough states for Dems in 2012.

Republicans, on the other hand, have recruited some pretty good candidates already. The expected announcement of Montana-at-large Rep. Dennis Rehberg this week that he’ll seek the GOP nomination to challenge Senator Jon Tester throws the state into the toss up column from likely Democrat. Former Senator George Allen is running for his old seat in Virginia, State Senate President Mike Haridopolos is looking to challenge Senator Bill Nelson in Florida, and Jon Bruning, the Nebraska Attorney General, has announced he’s challenging Ben Nelson. “Republicans are enjoying something of a recruiting boom, which is not surprising after 2010,” says Jennifer Duffy, who tracks Senate races for the non-partisan Cook Political Report. “Democrats seem to be having a harder time, but it’s still early.”

Early it is, and the GOP still has the primary season to get through. “Republican primaries cost them Senate seats last cycle, and there’s no question it could happen again,” says Eric Schultz, a spokesman for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. “Time after time, Republicans nominated unelectable candidates. It’s far too early for Republicans to declare any victories. Just ask [former Delaware GOP Senatorial hopeful] Mike Castle.”

There are also a few GOP seats in play, though Dems have yet to recruit any top tier challengers. Scott Brown is facing reelection in deep blue Massachusetts and John Ensign is trying to ride out a sex scandal in Nevada. Both are states Obama won in 2008 and, with the right Democratic recruiting, could help take in 2012. Also, Jon Kyl in whispered to be considering retirement in Arizona, which would be a tempting target for Democrats who’ve been trying to flip Arizona, with its enormous Latino population, for the last three elections. “The 2012 map offers Senate Democrats opportunities to win Republican seats and we expect to do so by defining our opponents early, and keeping a focus on getting people back to work,” Schultz says.

A lot will also depend on the atmosphere: 10% unemployment would be bad for Dems, but what would 8% unemployment mean? Will war and revolution have spread across the Middle East? Or will we be mostly out of Iraq and halfway out of Afghanistan? And how will voters feel about health care by then? Where will the Tea Party be? The most important factor – climate – is the most impossible to predict. Republicans are betting on an a similar electoral field to 2010. “Senate Democrats lost seven seats last cycle, while failing to win a single Republican seat, because their big government agenda is out-of-step with the views of many Americans, and particularly independent voters,” says Brian Walsh, a spokesman for the National Republican Senatorial Committee. “And clearly they haven’t learned a thing because all we’re hearing from President Obama and Democratic leaders in Congress is more of the same – more government, more regulation and more spending.” Whereas Democrats argue that polls show the center is already coming back to Obama while the right remains gripped in a struggle for the soul of the Party. And then there’s the chance that there’s simply no wave this year. “There’s a decent chance, though, that 2012 could really be a ‘normal’ election that produces little changes,” Duffy notes. “Overall, the political climate matters most, but neither party has a lot of control over that.”

We are still 22 months away and much can change in that time. After the 2008 election some observers were predicting permanent Democratic majorities and in early 2009 others were looking at the spate of GOP retirements in swing states as a sign that Dems might even expand their power in 2010. So, predicting now that the Senate will flip in 2012 is about as useful as an astrologer mapping their stars. That said, Dems were aware enough of the distinct possibility that last week’s Senate rules changes were particularly sensitive to the minority – just in case that’s where they find themselves in 22 months’ time.

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Related Topics: 2012 campaign, 2012 Election, Barack Obama, Congress, Democratic Party, Republican Party, Senate
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  • imaryma

    The U.S. Senate – will it flip
    In 2012 – do we care?
    ‘Cause civil bipartisanship
    Will echo through the chamber air.
    Majority / minority
    Party line will be in the past.
    There will be tranquil harmony.
    Real progress will be made at last.
    All Senators will shun the tricks
    That most of them once used to do.
    Work good and not play politics.
    A miracle – could this be true!

    Demoublican – how ’bout that!
    Or maybe a Republicrat!

  • paulejb

    The DSCC needs to raise twice the money to defend Democrat seats that Republicans do just to come out even. A daunting task for the party which has lost the confidence of the voters.

  • deconstructiva

    Jay, thanks for this, esp. last two sentences. With little filibuster reform it may not matter which party holds a slim majority; not much will get done. But it’s still going to be the economy and especially jobs. How will the House and Senate R’s help create them? Or not? There’s your ’12 election.
    .
    However, Jay, would you please do us commentariat a favor? Please quote the correct unemployment numbers: 16-ish% U-6 total out of full-time work, NOT the U-3. Yes, the BLS also stresses the lower numbers. Hmm, wonder why, rosier job picture? (okay, that’s rhetorical) I’ve asked your colleagues to quote the right numbers. I once suggested to Katy that the media and BLS’s misdirection with lower U-numbers would make a good cover story. It might even prod Congress to get off its ass and do something. Take the lead, Jay, please (you too, Katy). The two of you could do great stuff shining the light here …which could affect the jobs and thus really swing the ’12 Senate race. Thanks for your thoughts.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    You’re way behind the curve, Jay: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/48510.html

    Determined to be the website with the most and fastest coverage of presidential politics and in responding to reports, such as one in The New York Times on Sunday that said the 2012 election may be the most over-covered presidential contest yet, POLITICO announced that it has decided to skip the 2012 election cycle entirely and to concentrate its resources on 2016.

    “The 2016 presidential race begins today,” POLITICO Executive Editor Jim VandeHei said in a webcast press conference from the company’s headquarters at a secret address — 1100 Wilson Blvd. in Arlington, Va. Asked whether the lack of candidates would be a problem, VandeHei insisted that “candidates play a less and less significant role in American politics, especially at the presidential level. By the time we have finished covering the political consultants and advisers, then throw in a poll or two, there is really no need to talk to the candidates themselves. Our best scientific evidence is that, while the candidates may still have some vestigial role in 2012, by 2016 they will largely have disappeared, except for purely symbolic activities like posing for pictures [while] coming out of church with their families.” By 2020, VandeHei said, even those will be fabricated.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    Maybe the unemployed, who have been abandoned by both parties, will take a cue from the Middle East and throw both the bums out?

  • http://americadoneright.wordpress.com/ mcoville

    23 Dems up for re-election…. ya, the GOP will gain control of the senate, hands down.

    The real question is… Will they take over the White House.

  • square1

    In theory, the GOP is primed for a historical butt-whooping.

    The majority of the country gave up on the GOP during the Bush years. Unfortunately, the Democrats gave back much of those gains in the past two years by refusing to draw bright-line distinctions between the two parties.

    What we are left with is a smaller but more motivated GOP base and a larger but jaded and unmotivated Democratic base.

    Whether, over the next two years, the Democrats can inspire their more numerous supporters to come out to vote is the key question.

    Unfortunately for the Dems, the Senate is where liberal policy goes to die. It is extremely unlikely that Reid will accomplish anything noteworthy in the next two years.

    In fact, at this point I foresee Democrats losing seats in the Senate and gaining seats in the House.

  • rdw56

    I foresee Democrats losing seats in the Senate and gaining seats in the House.

    ***************************************************

    Dems will absolutely lose the Senate and thanks to GOP control of the redistricting process and the transfer of seats from Blue to Red states means democratic gains in the House will be minimal at best. It’s probable if Boehner is able to cap spending the GOP will gain house seats.

  • rdw56

    Unfortunately, the Democrats gave back much of those gains in the past two years by refusing to draw bright-line distinctions between the two parties

    **********************************************

    Are you out of your mind? This is the most liberal President since Wilson. You lost because of his far left liberalism and you are going to lose the Senate for the same reason. People like Ben Nelson and Jim Webb are toast. Also note the so called clever SOTU wasn’t clever at all. Time can put Obama on it’s cover with Reagan but until he learns to think and speak like Reagan it won’t matter. Obama was able to pass liberal legislation because he owned Congress but he never convinced the public his legislation was necessary. People don’t want it and much of it is being reversed. The decision in Florida on HC is much worse than Time is reporting and the Congress is going to start cutting funding for liberal programs like NPR drastically. It’s win/win for Boehner. He just ended public financing for Presidential campaigns because Obama is the last guy to support it.
    Well how do you defend funding NPR and PBS today when nerves are frazzled over $1T deficits? Boehner is going to be constantly hammering tax and spend liberals. Go ahead, in an age of 300 channels explain why the people have to fund liberal TV / radio outlets.

    BTW: high speed trains is a total loser. They’re far too expensive and served only a small slice of the population. People in DC, NY and Philly will support it. Guess what? You already have their vote.

  • rdw56

    If the GOP nominates an authentically good candidate along the lines of John Thune they’ll defeat Obama but the fact is Obama has been good for conservatives ideologically. While he’s passed liberal legislation he hasn’t sold it and much will be reversed. Moreover there’s going to be serious talk of a balanced budget amendment and other limits on spending. You see more of this at the state level where virtually every new governor ran on spending restraint and tax cuts. As far as national security and defense he reversed every policy he has as a Senator and has endorsed every action of GWBs. If anything with his policy on drones and the surge in Afghanistan, including attacks on Pakistan, Obama has moved to the right of Bush. The GOP will absolutely get the Senate back but most interesting is the fact the GOP membership is far more conservative than in any other Congress. Right now there are 42 solid conservatives for a filibuster. They don’t need Scott Brown or the Maine twins to block legislation. The next Congress will have 47 very conservative Senators

  • sacredh

    “In fact, at this point I foresee Democrats losing seats in the Senate and gaining seats in the House”
    .
    I think this the most likely scenario too. I’ll go one step further and say that at this point, Obama gets re-elected also.

  • Ivy_B

    Thanks, Elvis. In spite of its being Politico, that’s exactly what I was going to post when I read this.

  • square1

    I don’t know whether you actually believe this analysis or whether you think it serves some point to spin absolute nonsense. In any event, I am more than happy for Republicans to engage in delusional fantasies.
    .
    It is both a blessing and a curse for Republicans that they cannot help themselves but to perpetually advocate for their own cause. It is a blessing because their constant spin helps them shape conventional wisdom in their favor. It is a curse because they are incapable of engaging in objective analysis.
    .
    The idea that Obama represents “far left liberalism” is absurd on its face. I defy you — or any other Republican in these comments — to provide an accurate definition of liberalism and then provide specific policy examples that show that Obama is significantly further to the left than other presidents in the past 100 years.
    .
    It is easy to make blanket, conclusory statements like “Obama wants a government takeover of health care”.
    .
    What is difficult, if not impossible, is to point to specific provisions of the ACA law and make an intelligent argument that such provisions are significantly more “liberal” than policies supported by Bob Dole, Mitt Romney, or Richard Nixon.
    .
    So, go ahead. Accuse Obama of being an ultra-liberal or whatever. It may confuse some low-information voters and get you some votes. I will grant you that. But it will also make you look like a clown here at Swampland. People here actually know what was in the legislation that was passed over the past two years.

  • rdw56

    I will grant you that. But it will also make you look like a clown here at Swampland.

    ******************************************

    has there been any point in time where I’ve hidden my contempt for the liberal columnists at Time and the people who post here?

    Obama is ansolutely, positively far left liberal. His instincts are pure marxist. He hates profits. He’s also a politician not a king. Politics is the art of the possible. If it were possible for him to raise taxes on the rich back to 70% he would do so in a heartbeat. If it were possible for him to totally socialize healthcare he would do that.

    It’s our fortune he over-reached and got his head handed to him last November and the GOP now has a chance to undo much of the damage. It’s our fortune Reagan was such an amazing communicator that he was able to explain and convince a solid majority of the people of the limits of govt and the dangers of too large a govt. It’s our fortune Obama can sell anything.

  • rdw56

    Senate Vote to Spotlight Swing-State Dems

    Sen. Mitch McConnell has apparently succeeded in forcing a Senate vote on the repeal of Obamacare, which he has offered as an amendment to the Federal Aviation Administration reauthorization bill. Harry Reid says the vote will take place between 5 and 6 p.m. tomorrow, eastern time.

    The Hill reports that heavy pressures are being brought to bear on Democrats who are up for re-election next year:

    The Tea Party group FreedomWorks is calling on activists to flood the office phones of Sens. Nelson, Tester, Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), Jim Webb (D-Va.), Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), Bob Casey Jr. (D-Pa.), Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) and Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.) to call on them to vote for the repeal amendment. …

    “There are a number of Democrats up for reelection in 2012 who need to hear from the American people right now,” [Senator Jim] DeMint wrote in an e-mail to supporters Tuesday, singling out Ben Nelson, Tester, Webb, McCaskill and Manchin. “They may not want to listen, but it’s important that they know you will repeal them at the ballot box if they don’t help us repeal the bill.”

    All 47 Republicans are expected to vote for repeal. The Democrats say they are confident all 53 of their members will vote No, but here is a prediction: at least two will be given permission to defect in order to preserve their chances in 2012. In Missouri, for example, where Claire McCaskill is up next year, a ballot initiative to exempt the state from Obamacare’s individual mandate passed with more than 70 percent of the vote.

  • rdw56

    regarding 11.

    Get used to this. McConnell has enough skill to force voter after vote after vote on red state democrats to either save their skins or support Obama. Bob Casey is a weak candidate who got lucky in 2006 and will face stiff opposition in his primary and in the general election. I think his support for the stimulus has already doomed him but if he gets these votes wrong he’s liable to be defeated in the primary.

    It’s not just McConnel either. Boehner is going to send a series of funding bills for specific issues. If Bob Casey votes to fund NPR or PBS or the NEH he’s toast. PA is a very fiscally conservative state with the deficit by far the top issue and the spending side seen as the entire problem. With Bill Toomey playing a lead role in the budget process and hammering Casey constantly for supporting all of the spending Casey is going to have a hard time fundraising.

  • rdw56

    to provide an accurate definition of liberalism and then provide specific policy examples that show that Obama is significantly further to the left than other presidents in the past 100 years.

    ************************************************
    I’ll give you two short but telling examples regarding foreign policy. His embrace of Hugo Chavez is one example of his cartoonish leftism. Obama almost certainly considers morons like Chavez, Castro, Che to be heroes. Then there’s his buffoonish handling of his 1st real foreign policy test in Honduras where he did exactly as Chavez wanted him to do while abusing the elected Honduras govt as well as their judiciary. His position was absolutely ridiculous and he ended up beating a full retreat. The Hondurans stood up to him, told his to piss off and that’s exactly what he did.

    I could also use Israel as a good example including that
    braindead speech in Cairo. The simple bastard didn’t know the jews might be listening. He’s polls in Israel were less than 10% after the speech and Netanyahu abused him. Obama was doing just as the left wanted him to do and he failed miserably. Just as with Honduras Obama beat a full retreat after having been told to piss off.

  • rdw56

    One reason why Obama can’t sell leftism. This is a story that’s all over the internet but would never be printed by Time or aired by ABC.

    *****************************************************

    Annals of Government Medicine
    Share9 Share Post Print
    February 1, 2011 Posted by John at 8:43 PM

    Today’s report comes from Cuba, whose health care system is widely praised by liberals. That praise is based on bogus statistics produced by Castro’s government, but on a best-case scenario, it had better not get cold:

    Cuba handed lengthy prison terms to 13 workers at a mental hospital where 26 patients died in a cold snap a year ago that embarrassed a government that prides itself on its health care. …

    According to the official account, 26 patients died when temperatures on the tropical island plunged to 3.9 degrees Celsius (39 degrees Fahrenheit) beginning on January 9, 2010. …

    Hospital employees told the press at the time that the patients were undernourished and had no blankets because the hospital’s supplies had been stolen by people who worked there.

    Clinical evaluations of the victims found signs of malnutrition, a high incidence of anemia and vitamin deficiencies, according to the official report, which said the hospital received enough food for 2,458 patients when there were only 1,484 patients, the official report said. It added that an absence of controls “favored the misappropriation of resources destined fundamentally for the nourishment of the patients, as well as for clothing and bedding for their protection.”

    Mental hospitals where the patients have no blankets and are malnourished because unaccountable government employees stole their food to sell it on the black market–that’s government medicine in action

    ***********************************************************

    Anyone who reads the national review or any conservative blog or watches cable to listens to talk radio knows Fidel Castro is a turd and Cuba approaching a gulag. Socialism has been so totally trashed Obama can’t even make the case to raise taxes on millionaires 1%. That Che was a vile piece of crap is now so well known even lefties have stopped praising him.

    This is why the loss of Times ‘gatekeeper’ role has been so devastating to the left and Obama can’t pass the liberal legislation the left expected.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    It must be a terrible burden for you to spend so much time with people you hate?

  • cynicalprogressive

    Nelson won’t have to worry about Harodopolis. He’ll break his no new taxes pledge and the teabaggers will never forgive him. and good riddance to the pretty boy, I say.

  • ramitxc

    If he could actually balance the budget without raising taxes, he’d be hard to beat, especially since that’s something his competitors can’t claim they’ve done. But yeah, I’m not putting any faith in that right now. Been burned by “No New Taxes” Republicans too many times before…..

  • rdw56

    I don’t hate you. The way to understand political debate is as Krauthammer explained. Liberals think conservatives are evil while conservatives think liberals are stupid. It’s far more likely I am hated here. I like the times. Obama is the 1st guy since LBJ to try to Preside from the left and the pushback has been fantastic. We have more GOP congressmen than at any time since Hoover and they are very conservative. Obama has proven to be a shallow and useless communicator. Rasmussen had daily polling records form 2010 showing the more Obama talked about HC the lower the support. HC support actually rose everytime he ignored it for a week or more.

    I am a conservative more than a republican. Further I am a Reagan conservative. When you elect a liberal President and have large majorities in congress and you cannot raise taxes 1% on millionaires I can claim total victory. Even with historic deficits Obama could not raise taxes to Clinton levels. On an ideological score that’s total capitulation.

    Look at the Time cover of Obama posing with his good buddy Ronald Reagan. I’m surprised Joe didn’t have to check himself into a clinic over that one. As a conservative watching a liberal rag try to boost Obama by associating him with Ronald Reagan is pure joy. You have to laugh at the Chutzpa and the pure desperation. The MSM has gone from Lincoln to FDR and now to Reagan. Anyway you look at it liberalism is in full retreat. Look at national security and defense. Obama is to the right of Bush. Hollywood has done 2 dozen movies trashing Bush and accomplished nothing. They were all duds and it had to cost them $1B.

    Not only do we have a congress about to defund liberal welfare clients like PBS and NPR but we have a judiciary about to toss the entire HC bill and almost certainly revise many prior commerce clause rulings cutting federal power.

    This is a good time to be a conservative interested in politics, the media and the law.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    “has there been any point in time where I’ve hidden my contempt for the liberal columnists at Time and the people who post here?”
    .
    Glad to hear you don’t hate us. I suppose there is a difference between hate and contempt.

  • cynicalprogressive

    He’ll raise taxes, and you know it. They always do. And even if he does, the teabaggers will find a reason. He doesn’t hate brown people enough because he won’t pass an immigration bill….he doesn’t hate Obama enough. Face it, he can’t win.

  • ramitxc

    And what if he doesn’t raise taxes? And who knows, maybe they will pass a good immigration bill. And isn’t he sponsoring one of those bills to opt out of Obamacare? I’m pretty sure if he gets all of those things through, he can run circles around the guys in the primary.

  • rdw56

    Glad to hear you don’t hate us. I suppose there is a difference between hate and contempt.

    ******************************************

    I have contempt for your political ideology. I think socialism is the worst thing that’s ever happened to civilization. What was done under socialism in Asia is pure evil and then while Hitler was anti-communist he was left wing in terms of his totalitarian instincts. Modern conservatism is anti-totalitarian. Liberalism is very pro-totalitarian.

    Of course I have contempt for how Time reports news which is also why I come here. Time is an advocacy group who might as well be paid by the DNC. As a conservative interested in what the left is thinking this blog is perfect. You have a fetish about Sarah Palin and are livid about all things concerning Israel and National Security. But I don’t hate or even dislike Joe Klein. I honestly think the MSM has become so incompetent that are unable to advance their own causes. Joe is the quintessential liberal elitist. His sneering at Krauthammer is proof of his self-awareness of his own ineptitude and CK’s success. Joe gets he can’t hide the fact he was a supporter of the Iraqi invasion. Joe gets he can’t deny he trashed Petraeus and the surge. Joe gets trashing CK for being in a wheelchair was moronic. While I find his elitism annoying I consider him harmless and often buffoonish. CK is authentically influencial. He’s sharp, witty and often insightful. Joe is a very good writer but totally predictable. He isn’t stupid by any stretch. But he is very liberal. That makes him a poor judge of reality but a good representative of liberalism.

  • rdw56

    Ben is already on life support. The Tea Party want’s an authentic conservative and will fund a candidate in both the primary and the general election to oppose him. Because of this they’ll attract good candidates. McConnell is going to force hard vote after hard vote with the goal of putting at least 10 Senators in harms way.

  • rdw56

    Nelson: ‘Time to Change the Mandate’
    February 2, 2011 11:52 A.M.
    By Andrew Stiles

    Sen. Ben Nelson (D., Neb.) thinks the time has come to get rid of the individual mandate in the Democratic health-care law. Politico reports:

    Speaking to more than 150 insurance brokers, Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) called the individual mandate “the biggest sticking point” in the health reform law.

    “It’s time to change the mandate,” Nelson told members of the National Association of Insurance and Financial Advisors (NAIFA), gathered in Washington for their “Day on the Hill” event. “People don’t like mandates. I don’t think it’s a good idea.”

    Nelson supports the health reform law but has also emerged as a leader in exploring options to the individual mandate, a health reform provision now ruled unconstitutional by two federal judges.

    Nelson, who is up for reelection in 2012 (and polling rather poorly at the moment), will likely come under a lot of pressure to support legislation introduced by Sens. Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.) and John Barrasso (R., Wyo.) that would allow states to ‘opt out’ of reform provisions like the individual mandate — even though Graham has clearly stated that the bill’s ultimate goal is to undo Obamacare.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    Wrong. We in PA don’t see the deficit as the top issue. It jobs, you twit. However, even if it were the deficit that mattered the most to us here (or at least everybody I talk to) it wouldn’t be the spending side. Bush made a mistake when he cut taxes during war time. Fiscally, that just didn’t seem like the right thing to do. And Obama made a mistake when he extended the tax cuts and gave new ones (the payroll tax deduction). The stimulus didn’t work because it was mainly tax deductions.
    .
    All of these tax cuts and republicans call for even more is indicative of what is wrong with America today–the greed that has swept into our society. The republicans just may win in 2012, but someday the vast majority of Americans will see the republican party for the do-nothing, corporatist party they’ve been since at least 1980 and be done with republican ideas. That will happen within the next couple of election cycles so take my advice and enjoy the power while you can.

  • cynicalprogressive

    @ramitxc – Repealing health care? This guy’s just begging for love from the teabaggers.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    Well, lets see, your “article” states that the hospital received more than enough food and supplies to feed and care for the 1,000+ patients. But that food and supplies never got to the patients because the employees stole it. This seems like an indictment against the guilty hospitals workers who are thieves, not an indictment against socialized medicine.
    .
    BTW, Fidel Castro is no longer in charge of Cuba. He had to step down due to health reasons. His brother Raule (sp) is now leader of the government there. This happened over 2 years ago. For somebody so “knowledgeable” about politics, I’d have thought you would know that.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    Why would you call me a socialist? Have you ever seen me advocate for the nationalization of any industries, let alone all industries? With all due respect, I think you have liberalism confused with socialism. If you do some research I think you will find they are quite different from each other.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    @rdw, you sure are intellectually dishonest. Yes, two federal judges have rules that the mandate is unconstitutional. However, two others rules that it is not unconstitutional. And 12 (I believe, though I may be wrong) others didn’t see enough merits in the case to even hear it. So, your side seems to be down 14:2.

  • ramitxc

    @cynicalprogressive Either that or he’s with most of America on the issue. At least that part’s a fact.

  • rdw56

    you sure are intellectually dishonest

    ******************************************

    no idea what you are taking about 15.5 was written by the politico not me. As far as the score, 14-1 ensures this is going to the supreme court and several sharp court watchers think the Florida decision has the potential to be devastating. Consider the Roberts court on Guns and Campaign finance reform. They were very broad reversals. Well they could very well give an equally sharp reversal on the commerce clause which has clearly been used in ways not intended. Kennedy is always a wildcard but is more of an originalist than given credit. There is an excellent chance the Roberts court rules Obamacare unconstitutional AND redefines the commerce clause far more narrowly restricting the powers of the federal govt.

    At a minimum Obama is playing with fire. Several conservative legal analysts think this could be more devastating to liberalism at the federal level than any 3 decisions rended by Roberts.

  • rdw56

    Nelson is at 39% and 41% in two different polls. It’s rare for an incumbent to come back from such a deficit. The Tea Party has already decided he’s got to go and with their national fundraising base and the ability to bring in stars like Palin and Backmann means Nelson will face a very well funded opponent in the primary and then an even better opponent in the general election. A number of analysts are predicting he’s going to retire unless his polling data improves soon.

  • rdw56

    wanted to add. Roberts, Alito, Scalia and Roberts are 4 sure votes to roll back the commerce clause. Kennedy is said to lean in that direction. I think Kagan was involved in passing the bill and will be forced to recuse herself.

    If Kennedy sides with Scalia it will be devastating for Obama and liberalism and likely to generate a series of lawsuits to reverse prior rulings further restricting the federal govt. This is a much bigger deal than Time is reporting. It doesn’t matter how many judges now support Obama. The Florida ruling ensures the Supremes will get involved.

  • rdw56

    I didn’t say Fidel was in charge. I said he was a turd and Cuba a disaster under socialism. What do you suppose it means when the hospital staff steals food in a socialist paradise? You should also know they don’t have much in the way of medicine either.

    BTW: They’re all socialist turds. one of the reasons Fidel had to ‘retire’ is the vaunted cuban healthcare system almost killed him. They had to bring a doctor in from Spain to undo the damage a cuban doctor did. Only a liberal could be so stupid as to believe socialists could deliver healthcare.

  • rdw56

    I am enjoying the run and you are right jobs are ahead of the deficit as a worry but it doesn’t change the fact the focus is on economics and Obama’s stimulus didn’t work a lick while pissing away a ton of money. The focus is absolutely positively on spending. Both candidates for governor promised not to raise taxes but to cut spending. All 5 new congressmen made the same promise.

    There won’t be any tax increases in red states or near red states and we’ll see the increases by Illinois as a disaster for business and employment. It will not generate the revenue they expect. IN fact the timing by many of these governors is quite good as the economy is coming back and tax collections are starting to rebound. Many are going to be able to deliver on promises to balance their budgets and even deliver tax cuts. Both NJ and VA cut spending and had higher than expected revenues. Both are promising more spending cuts and after cutting some debt will use the revenue increases sure to continue to cut taxes.

    High tax states simply cannot compete. PA has it’s problems but they’re not near as bad as in NJ or NY. Corbett has a solid shot at real spending cuts especially for education and with revenues growing merely needs to freeze spending once he gets to his run rate.

  • diecash1

    @ramitxc — Are you contending that the majority of Americans want the ACA repealed? Perhaps you could cite your source for this dubious claim. As demonstrated by numerous polls on the question, most Americans want the law left in place.

  • rdw56

    I don’t have liberalism confused with socialism and actually I think you are more likely to become fascists than socialist. The fact is socialism has become shorthand for liberalism carried to it’s natural extent. Liberals are by definition totalitarian friendly. You want federal control of everything form Heathcare to the media to energy to wages and prices. The fact is socialism has become so toxic liberals can’t even talk about it but it’s their natural home.

  • patti321

    As it apparently doesn’t make a difference which party runs the U.S. with both being blasted out of office, I think a more important question is: When are WE Americans going to put Referendums on the Ballot to Enact, Repeal or Re-Enact laws that are beneficial to the U.S.? It is clear that D.C. corrupts even the best who try to do their job, and also that they do not understand that WE can also behave like Tunisia or Egypt, if necessary. WE’d rather that the FED would Follow the Laws & do their jobs without looking for handouts. But I believe that Americans are coming to the end of their rope(s). What truly amazes me is the clear lack of respect that our Politicians have for us & the law. So in case they can’t see the handwriting on the wall, the FOX will soon be removed from the HenHouse. WE can and will change the system to resemble what the founding fathers fought so bravely to create.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    Yes, as someone who is part Jewish I always thought I would end up as a fascist because I really hate that part of myself.

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