Political Rhetoric

Wait, what reports are you referring to?

Its all a twitter.

Katy,
This is possibly one of the most irresponsible pieces of “journalism” I’ve come across in quite some time. Rep. Gifford was a blue-dog and pro-life, yet you’re going to push this narrative that her death was the result of right-wing extremism. You have no idea what happened here! I f*cking knew this would happen as soon I saw the reports of her shooting this morning. Our country is awash in sickening and dangerous hyperbole and subversive partisanship. Shame on you, Katy, for feeding the fire.

If you follow the link Alex posted for Huffington Post’s live blog, you’ll see some — and links to others.

The problem Exiled is that this is the easy way to do news. You just manufacturer some and hope it sticks. Captain Honors story. Same thing.

Thanks, Katy. Alas, the next step from analysis here: the right-leaning media pundits and others (incl. Palin) inciting / implying violence. It will be ugly but needs thoughts. How will those guilty of this in the past react now? Will they renounce their past careless remarks or not? (I think 53 kept warning about fellow RW’s needing to reign in their own. He was right.)
http://www.newshounds.us/inciting_violence/
http://thechurchofjesuschrist.us/2010/10/does-glenn-beck-incites-violence/

Sadly, it’s true. It could come out tomorrow that Rep. Giffords was shot by a scorned lover (I’m just throwing this out as a hypothetical, no disrespect at all intended towards Giffords), but today’s headlines and insinuations will already be imprinted on people’s minds. You can’t walk something back like this.

Thanks Sarah for your comment. Are you going to defend her opponents target practice fund raiser also, too?

Well, okay, was it too hard to link it yourself?
Maybe type a few words of explanation, instead of just hopping on the Speculation Train?

“Our country is awash in sickening and dangerous hyperbole and subversive partisanship. Shame on you, Katy, for feeding the fire.”
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Yes it is and it’s all coming from the right-wing of the body politic. Nobody on the left is talking about “Second Amendment remedies,” and Joe Biden isn’t listing political enemies and literally putting a target on them for public consumption. I’ll wait and see what this nut job’s politics are but do you really want to be he’s not a Glenn Beck fan?
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You’d better get over the fact that the “conservative” movement has run off the rails of civil, rational conduct. It’s something else now, something extremely ugly and dangerous. Actually, “sickening and dangerous…subversive partisanship” sums it up nicely.

Exiled, please tone down your anger.

jpl9,
How witty. How clever.

While there is no evidence at this point to suggest that the shooting was politically motivated, Matt Yglesias points out that an anti-Giffords event was held in June with the billing: “Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly.”
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–Huffington Post

I agree with Exiled that we shouldn’t speculate until we get actual details.
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The basic reason being that if I do start shouting about right wingers and he turns out to be a scorned lover or a schizophrenic, I’ll look like an assh*le.

Just FYI, Exiled, I’m holding fire. I also agree that it is too soon for this sort of thing.
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They will have to go into the home of the murderer and see what motivated him.
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I do not know yet what that might be.

I f*cking knew this would happen as soon I saw the reports of her shooting this morning.

How exactly is it that you “knew”? Is it because, deep down, you realized, as Shep described above, that a faction of the right-wing is utterly nuts? It’s true. There has been entirely too much talk of BS such as “2nd amendment remedies” and other assorted crazy talk. You are correct, however, that it is entirely too soon to speculate at the motives of this particular nut job.
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As a conservative, don’t you think it’s past time to put the nuts back in the jar? Thinly veiled threats and incitements to violence (from the right) should not go unchallenged from the right. Time to clean house.

Shep,
Actually, I don’t really disagree with you, for the most part. I’m not saying that this guy is or isn’t anything. What I am saying, is that Katy’s little post is cowardly and irresponsible. She should either get some balls and make an accusation or put down her microphone. But, no, it’s easier to just make baseless insinuations, incense people further, and then sit back and watch the fireworks, all the while claiming plausible deniability. Her approach is not all that much different than Sarah Palin’s actually, who I find to be abrasive, myopic, and deceptive. I’m not going to defend Palin. I’m also not going to sit silently while others employ her same strategy all the while condemning her strategy. Hypocrites.

I’m holding fire, but here is Seattle PI’s story:
http://www.seattlepi.com/national/433043_giffords08.html

Shep,
Actually, I don’t really disagree with you, for the most part. I’m not saying that this guy is or isn’t anything. What I am saying, is that Katy’s little post is cowardly and irresponsible. She should either get some balls and make an accusation or put down her microphone. But, no, it’s easier to just make baseless insinuations, incense people further, and then sit back and watch the fireworks, all the while claiming plausible deniability. Her approach is not all that much different than Sarah Palin’s actually, who I find to be abrasive, myopic, and deceptive. I’m not going to defend Palin. I’m also not going to sit silently while others employ her same strategy all the while condemning her strategy. Hypocrites

Just so everyone knows:
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She IS alive, thankfully

Katy:
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May I suggest that you take the chart down and only indirectly refer to it as you do in your commentary.
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I would really appreciate doing it. Right now, it is far too inflammatory and you run the risk of becoming a mockery if the killer was not politically motivated…

Yeah, that makes sense, now that Palin has scrubbed her website of the offensive graphic.

Please add this to your reporting: http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171

Exiled, I don’t see an “accusation” here, just a strong implication. Yes, it may be a bit premature to make that suggestion but jilted lovers don’t usually shoot up a crowd full of Democrats at a shopping mall. And even if it turns out this guy isn’t doing his impression of Sarah Palin’s dirty work, he’s still living in the whole environment of “sickening and dangerous…subversive partisanship” state-sanctioned violence and gun fetishism. It can make sick people do sick things.

No matter who shot this poor woman, everyone should know that an ignorant person who wants to run for President posted an ad with gun sights on human beings. Thanks for reminding us just how stupid this woman is.

I appreciate the alterations, Ms Steinmetz.

Yes, thank you, Katy.

Yes, like a plot from a TV crime drama a jilted lover could have cleverly framed his murder to make this look like a politically motivated attack but that is likely pure fiction.

The inflamed rhetoric being broadcast by right wing radio, the over-the-top fearmongering by FOXNews commentators like Glen Beck, and graphic imagery coming from Tea Party candidates and Sarah Palin have aroused passions on all sides. Why wouldn’t a less than stable individual decide to become famous by carrying out their dark fantasies to take down Democrats?

Whoever this terrorist murderer is he must have professional training. He hit 18 people and 6 are already dead.

Thankfully, but it’s a shot to the head – those tend to mess people up.

I will add my thanks, too!

Gifford’s a pro-life, Blue Dog, former Republican. Not the most likely candidate for Tea Party angst.

Well, while we’re at it, let’s juxtapose Obama’s reaction to the vile crime at Ft. Hood with this one. Upon being told that American servicemen were shot at Ft. Hood, the Commander-in-Chief yukked it up on stage. Upon hearing about this vile crime, Obama issues a serious statement.
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Just like Katy Steinmetz, I am just pointing out facts.

Fox News is saying Federal judge John Roll is among the dead.

True, and she may not survive.
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She made it through surgery, she is responding to commands. Just heard on tv.
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I’m just kind of holding fire…

The shooter has been identified. See here:
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/jared-laughner-gabrielle-giffords-shooter_n_806229.html

I’ll hold my tongue until I know what motivated the killer, but Palin’s move does bring back memories of what happened shortly after the OKC bombing.
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She’s taking no chances…

I don’t seem to remember that he “yukked it up” spob. Maybe at this point you should post a link to the offending incident without opinions, so we can all judge for ourselves…

And while we’re talking about political rhetoric, what about our President, Barack Obama? He labeled the GOP the enemies of Latinos (yeah, that’s civil), and, by posting on the DailyKos website (remember that oh so civil and patriotic comment “screw ‘em).

That’s completely wrong, Exiled:

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We don’t know the reasons behind the shooting, but the fact that Giffords was opposed by the Tea Party is not in question.

This may be the murderer’s last Youtube video. If so, it looks like he has military training and suffers from a thought disorder.

Links?
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Obama didn’t do anything. You did it to yourselves. The Sotomayor rhetoric was not conducive to a good image, amongst them.
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GOPers are not going to get much credibility by talking out of both sides of their mouths.
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I would suggest that you talk to your peers, spob. They are the ones who continually reinforce the negative images that tarnishes all conservatives.
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This is not our problem. It’s yours…

“…the Commander-in-Chief yukked it up on stage….”
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As I recall, like this time, his statement was full of qualifications and with a very reverent tone asking people not to jump to conclusions.
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You make it sound like he put on a Saturday Night live skit rather than spoke as if he were reading a statement of condolence written by the attorneys who write warning labels on medicine.
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I believe he did the later then and, I suspect that he is doing the same now.

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He hears of it, then gives shout-outs. Like I said, interesting to juxtapose.

Why do you feel the need to concern troll on this particular blog? Do you not see that it’s bad form?
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FYI, Obama said that he used a poor choice of words when he made the “enemies” remark.

Oh, completely wrong? Really? Pro-life, Blue Dog, former Republican. All true. I didn’t say that she didn’t oppose the Tea Party, Cliff, I said that she’s not the most likely Tea Party target.

Well there it is—when you guys say it, it’s justified.

I saw those remarks.
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He used the word “enemies” and later said that he should have said “rivals” since Republicans were “enemies” of immigration reform.
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This is a false equivalence if I ever heard one.

Ummm. This is not good. This is edging in a direction I do not like…

If we’re going to talk about rhetoric, then things like Obama’s “enemies” comments are fair game.

Well, whoever made that screed is more than a few bricks short of a full load.

This guy’s a nut.

Oh, I remember, spob. This is one of those things that, in your opinion, was “yukking it up”. I watched and I didn’t see any problem. He was n the middle of a speech when he was informed.
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He finished the comments he was making at the time, then he addressed the massacre.
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I don’t have a problem with it…

Yes, she’s a Blue Dog, but you can’t say she’s an unlikely Tea Party target when she’s a Tea Party target.
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That’s why Steinmetz posted that image in the first place.
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The image isn’t relevant to the situation as it currently stands, but if you’re going to talk about Giffords’ political situation then you have to acknowledge that she was a Tea Party target.

I might remind you, spob, that bullets are not rhetoric. I think this is the wrong place, and totally inappropriate to boot, to foment that tired old faux outrage.
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But help yourself if your I mind to. It is a free country.
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Keep in mnd that the people who react negatively to your commentary have every bit as much right as you..

He probably suffers from schizophrenia.

“…it looks like he has military training and suffers from a thought disorder.”
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Clearly, cultivated and fed with violent, right-wing, anti-government rhetoric.

Another one of his videos.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/f/0/3L1lsLU-kUw

Exiled, according to Wikipedia and to Fox News, Giffords is pro-choice and has a 100% rating from NARAL.

I have a good friend that although on opposing sides can discuss issues. Hate speech blocks free speech and hurts democracy. Folks that use target practice against opponents or use throw away terms like death panels do not promote discussion. You might be for regressive taxation or progressive taxation but you need to be able to defend your view. IMO
We have no idea of the motives of the shooter but next time you hear throw away terms turn off the tv, radio or sign off that blog.

She is pro-gun rights.

“Immigration suit threats

Judge Roll in 2009, faced death threats after presiding over a $32 million civil-rights lawsuit. The lawsuit was filed by illegal immigrants against an Arizona rancher. After Judge Roll ruled the case would be certified, threats came from talk-radio shows which fueled controversy and spurred audiences into making threats against the judge[2].

The threats materialized after one show, Judge Roll’s name logged more than 200 phone calls as some callers threatened the judge and his family[2].

This resulted in the judge and his wife were under a protection detail for one month as Judge Roll was given twenty four hours a day, seven days a week security by the US Marshals Service. An US Attorney’s investigation ruled that four men were identified as threat makers, but no charges were filed[2].

In a July 9, 2009 interview with the Arizona Republic, Judge Roll described the time under high security as “unnerving and invasive. . . . By its nature it has to be,” Roll said. Roll also said, “It (the security) was handled very professionally by the Marshals Service.”[2]

At the end of the month, Roll said four key men had been identified as threat makers[2]. ”
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http://judgepedia.org/index.php/John_Roll
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Not a favorite of the Tea Party, either.

Cliff,
Obviously, as a Democrat, she’s a political target of the Tea Party. Just as George W. Bush was a political target of the Democrats. However, Clifford is not someone who anyone was whipping followers up into a freny over. She was a moderate. That was my only point.

Spob,
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You have not contradicted anything said by 53_3.
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This was like a condolence speech.
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Later ones included the remark to not to jump to any conclusions since it was not known if the shooter’s religion was the deciding factor. (Later it was know that it was).

“Obviously, as a Democrat, she’s a political target of the Tea Party. Just as George W. Bush was a political target of the Democrats. However, Clifford is not someone who anyone was whipping followers up into a freny over.”

“Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly.”

The right-wing whips their followers into a frenzy about everything (don’t you read this blog?). For the truly crazy ones, this sort of outcome is inevitable. And that’s only one of the reasons why their rhetoric is so dangerous.

you are balming the author for things that were not in the article.
Are you in the right place with your comments?
Does not look like

“But, no, it’s easier to just make baseless insinuations, incense people further, and then sit back and watch the fireworks, all the while claiming plausible deniability.”
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Incense? Interesting word? Are you worried that some crazy liberal will retaliate?
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After all the threats, killings, clearly against the left hand side of the isle have you seen any liberal retaliate in kind?
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How many necks have we stomped on, have we wanted to destroy some rightwing think tank, mace officers because they came for our latte?
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Incense. What exactly do you think will happen if it turns out to be an unstable rightwing wacko? That I or someone else from our political spectrum is going to go on a killing spree? That the union guys are going to break up a TP really with billie clubs?
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Or that we’re going to want the rightwing side of the isle to stop incensing people to compare me and others to traitors, anti-american communist fascists.
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So yeah – the worst anyone is going to get from me would be a STFU. That is about the only rightous anger while the respond in kind seems to be a loaded gun.

“…it looks like he has military training and suffers from a thought disorder.”
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Clearly, cultivated and fed with violent, right-wing, anti-government rhetoric.
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Most of us are exposed to the same mindless rhetoric every day and most of us don’t go out and shoot people. If he suffers from mental illness — conspiracy theories are a common symptom — it is more likely a chemical imbalance, but no one really knows the cause.

Here is what I just found:
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http://www.businessinsider.com/jared-lee-loughner-2011-1
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Apparently this man could, at least momentarily or superficially pass for totally sane.
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If I understand correctly, particularly if this man has medication, this is not at all unusual to behave sanely long enough for people to believe that he is sane.
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His reading material was not that unusual if you take an interest in political science.

Obviously this man is very mentally ill man.

One can come to two conclusions from the fact that this is the third right wing attack in a year.

First, there was the IRS building in Austin Texas.

Second there was the shootout in CA with the man incensed over a government takeover.

Now, conservatives, tell me which one you like better:

Thinly veiled threats of violence against the opposition by conservatives inspires psychotic people to violence.

Or

All psychotic people are already very politically conservative and would have attacked Democrats anyway?

If I were conservative, I would, absolutely, prefer the first and tell the extremist blowhards like Palin, the Fox news crowd and AM radio windbags to STFU and stick to real dialog.

My best guess is if real political debate about issues happened on these stations, psychotics would change the station, not go out and murder people.

Christ. The shooting.
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The comments here.
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Christ.

We reap what we sow.

Milas,

The post has since dramatically changed. Katy has backpedaled on her insinuations.

“Most of us are exposed to the same mindless rhetoric every day and most of us don’t go out and shoot people. If he suffers from mental illness — conspiracy theories are a common symptom — it is more likely a chemical imbalance, but no one really knows the cause.”
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The cause[s] are, no doubt, complex. The point that his paranoia was fed with anti-government conspiracies, which were then manifested in both his beliefs and his choice of actions. That sort of rhetoric has been ubiquitous from the right since Ronald Reagan declared that “government is the problem”, as he sought to run it. It has only intensified whenever Democrats hold power, culminated in the sheer toxic nonsense spewed even by to Republican politicians, including the previous Republican Vice Presidential candidate.
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What should be done with an illegal, foreign usurper of the office of President, who “pals around with terrorists.” These traitorously evil lies from the right must stop.

shepherdwong I don’t think there is any doubt that right-wing hate rhetoric has zero redeeming qualities. However, understanding the cause effect relationship between language and human action is not an easy task. In fact, understanding human behavior period, is not an easy task. Further information about the killer indicates that mein kampf, the communist manifesto and animal farm are his favorite books. Our right-wing friends will argue that makes him a liberal, I suppose. A girl who knew him in high school claims he was a radical leftist in school. However, she also said he withdrew from the world, lost all his friends and became a loner. Those are symptoms of someone moving toward a psychotic state. His theories about the gov’t controlling language and thought and intending to introduce a new currency, are just further evidence of someone suffering from a thought disorder. He likely hears voices in his head. For now, I think the best bet is to assume his body is producing too much dopamine and that is having a greater impact on his behavior than political rhetoric.

“For now, I think the best bet is to assume his body is producing too much dopamine and that is having a greater impact on his behavior than political rhetoric.”
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Derek, if you really want to understand cause and effect, trust me, an overabundance of dopamine, or any other chemical imbalance of the brain, doesn’t cause anyone to pick up a high-capacity semi-automatic weapon and gun down a Congresswoman and a crowd of Democrats. Open your eyes, man.

Can reasonable people finally all agree that it is not ok to show up at town hall meetings and political rallies brandishing weapons?

We don’t know what motivated the shooter. I appears he has some serious mental problems.
However, observers might not assume that he was motivated by right wing rhetoric, if it wasn’t heard everyday.
Whether it is Beck, Hannity, or almost anyone on Fox or right wing radio shows, the rhetoric heard is so inflammatory that one might automatically make the connection to violent acts.
The right wing leadership does nothing to tamp down the hate speech. It is their base. In fact, many encourage it. If the shooter was not inspired by these cultural vulgarians, some other will be.

Some nut job, leftist political activist named Nathan Thornburgh writing for the leftist political advocacy group named Time magazine asserts:

“Yet the idea that Arizona is under attack has been pushed hard enough that it’s very possible that whichever coward shot her (in the head, according to a Tucson paper) believed that the 40-year-old Democrat, who had been tarred by some as soft on immigration because she didn’t support SB1070, was contributing to larger-scale violence against Arizonans.”

Evidence provided by Thornburgh to support such an unsubstantiated, ludicrous allegation: In typical Time magazine fashion – NONE. What a surprise!

If rhetoric is the cause of action, which I think you are implying, why don’t we see more events like this? The country is awash in mindless, violent rhetoric.

If the shooter was not inspired by these cultural vulgarians, some other will be.
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Many already have been. But it’s politically incorrect for the media to do more than mention these incidents in passing. Only attacks commuted by extremist Muslims receive thorough comment and analysis.
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For example: If a shooter gets in a firefight with cops while on his way to the Tides Foundation to commit murder (because he believes Glenn Beck’s lies) the media barely has a peep to say about it.
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Hopefully this incident will finally change that, and we’ll start taking these incidents and the rhetoric that leads to them more seriously. Maybe those that rely on eliminationist rhetoric will finally receive the condemnation they deserve.

Rats! My fingers have been stuttering again. That was supposed to say: ‘Only attacks committed by…’

C’mon, Derek. This isn’t the fist act of violence and/or intimidation by right-wingers against a Democrat (for instance, her office was vandalized, along with 20 or so others, following her vote on the health care bill) and it won’t be the last. I’m afraid that the truth of it is just too shrill for our Village scribes so you can be forgiven for not knowing what’s going on here.

Textee,
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You are by far the most unwelcome voice of right wing mental illness not welcome right now.
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I’m not kidding when I say that you do write like Jared Lee Loughner.

Has the atheist left (aka the Democrat Party) looked at this guy’s youtube page? Evidently, he’s one of your own!

Like any “good” Democrat, he states: “No! I won’t trust in God!”

Here are the screen shots: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/256670/shooters-youtube-page-daniel-foster

Enjoy!

Thank you very much for responding to commentary, Katy Steinmetz, it is greatly appreciated.

You’re being very responsible in your commentary, 53_3. Thank you.

I will add my thanks, as well.

Your string of utterly pointless and stupid posts remains intact. You forgot your usual rant about the various networks too.

Notwithstanding the predictable, ludicrous, unsubstantiated allegations regarding the murders (e.g., “It’s Sarah Palin’s fault!”) from the usual suspects at Time magazine, ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, A-Mess-NBC, CNN, et al., actual evidence about the murderer is pouring in. Evidently, he’s an atheistic leftist (isn’t that redundant?) http://mobile.twitter.com/caitieparker#22979901883682816

Enjoy!

“WASHINGTON — A law enforcement official tells The Associated Press that the handgun used in a shooting that killed a federal judge and wounded a U.S. congresswoman in Tucson, Ariz., was purchased legally. U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was shot in the head Saturday morning during an event with voters outside a local grocery store. U.S. District Judge John Roll, and at least five others, were killed in the attack.

The official, who has been briefed on the investigation, spoke to the AP on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss details of the case. Officials have identified the shooter as 22-year-old Jared Loughner of Tucson. He is in custody. The Washington Post reported late Saturday that Loughner purchased the gun Nov. 30 from the Sportsman’s Warehouse in Tucson.”
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/gabrielle-giffords-shooter-gun_n_806297.html
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For anybody who does not support gun control and think of gun control advocates are a bunch nosy grandmas who wish to take away things from you for entertainment, do understand that, while some gun ownership by non-law enforcement non-military personnel, this is an example of who we all need to keep guns away from.
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If it means more paperwork and/or waiting time for you planning to go hunting or to just bring to a target range, too fking bad! If this is the price we pay for your convenience, it is not worth it.

“I’m afraid that the truth of it is just too shrill for our Village scribes so you can be forgiven for not knowing what’s going on here.”
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There is a difference between pretending you know what you are talking about and defending your position with some actual evidence. Speaking of which, where is yours?

Did you know that a wellknown anti liberal like Niel Boortz is also a atheist. A lot of libertarians are. Some of them are even against our many wars. Not because they’re peaceloving hippies, but because they do not recognize our political systems right to waste this countries resources abroad.
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That’s kind of the sentiment alot of the right had not to get involved in World War II.
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A little less dumb@ss gut and a little more thinking. Always a lot better in these situation.

Derek,
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“Those are symptoms of someone moving toward a psychotic state. His theories about the gov’t controlling language and thought and intending to introduce a new currency, are just further evidence of someone suffering from a thought disorder. He likely hears voices in his head. For now, I think the best bet is to assume his body is producing too much dopamine and that is having a greater impact on his behavior than political rhetoric.”
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Derek,
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Your analysis shows that you have a very good understanding of mental illness and you are right that this person in not commiting a political act but the act of a crazy person. People should not be trying to use the actions of this mentally ill person to score political points against the other political party.
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Like the guy that shoot Reagan, this guy was mentally ill and should not be used by either party to demonize the other party.
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Hateful comments are made by both sides of our body politics and here on the Swamp on a daily bases. Both sides are equally guilty. For every supposed evil comment made on FOX, there are similar comments made on MSNBC and other Networks and Media.
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It is a shame that so many Liberals on this site are so full of hate for those that have different political beliefs than they have. That is not a reason for hate.

Derek,
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“If rhetoric is the cause of action, which I think you are implying, why don’t we see more events like this? The country is awash in mindless, violent rhetoric.”
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“I’m afraid that the truth of it is just too shrill for our Village scribes so you can be forgiven for not knowing what’s going on here.”
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There is a difference between pretending you know what you are talking about and defending your position with some actual evidence. Speaking of which, where is yours?
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Derek, from many of the comments being made on Swampland regarding this shooting, it appears that we may have a substantial number of mentally ill people right here on this Blog.

http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/insurrection-timeline
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July 27, 2008—Jim Adkisson shoots and kills two people at a progressive church in Knoxville, Tennessee, wounding two. Adkisson calls it “a symbolic killing” because he really “wanted to kill…every Democrat in the Senate & House, the 100 people in Bernard Goldberg’s book,” but was unable to gain access to them.

September 22, 2008—The National Rifle Association launches its GunBanObama website, which predicts that Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, “if elected…would be the most anti-gun president in American history.” The website is part of a $15 million NRA campaign to discredit Obama.

December 9, 2008—FBI teams investigating the murder of white supremacist James Cumming, 29, a resident of Belfast, Maine, find supplies for a crude radiological dispersal dervice and other explosives in his home. Cumming’s wife, who shot him to death after being abused by him repeatedly, explains, “His intentions were to construct a dirty bomb and take it to Washington to kill President Obama. He was planning to hide it in the undercarriage of our moter home.”

February 20, 2009—FOX commentator Glenn Beck hosts a program that games a 2014 civil war scenario called “The Bubba Effect.” It involves citizen militias in the South and West taking up arms against the U.S. government.

March 3, 2009— FOX commentator Glenn Beck interviews NRA celebrity spokesman Chuck Norris. During the interview, Beck states that, “Somebody asked me this morning, they said, ‘you really believe that there’s going to be trouble in the future?’ And I said, ‘if this country starts to spiral out of control and, you know, and Mexico melts down or whatever, if it really starts to spiral out of control, before America allows a country to become a totalitarian country … Americans will, they just, they won’t stand for it. There will be parts of the country that will rise up.’ And they said, ‘where’s that going to come from?’ And I said, ‘Texas, it’s going to come from Texas.’”

March 21-22, 2009—Congresswoman Michele Bachmann (R-MN) states that she wants residents of her state to be “armed and dangerous on this issue of the energy tax because we need to fight back. Thomas Jefferson told us ‘having a revolution every now and then is a good thing,’ and the people—we the people—are going to have to fight back hard if we’re not going to lose our country.”

April 4, 2009—Neo-Nazi Richard Poplawski shoots and kills three police officers responding to a 911 call to his home in Pittsburgh. His friend Edward Perkovic tells reporters that Poplawski feared “the Obama gun ban that’s on its way” and “didn’t like our rights being infringed upon.” Perkovic also commented that Poplawski carried out the shooting because “if anyone tried to take his firearms, he was gonna’ stand by what his forefathers told him to do.”

April 25, 2009—Joshua Cartwright, 28, a member of the Florida National Guard, shoots and kills two Okaloosa County sheriff’s deputies attempting to arrest him on a domestic abuse charge. Cartwright is killed in an enusing gun battle with police. Cartwright’s wife reports that he was “severely disturbed” that Barack Obama had been elected president. Okaloosa County Sheriff Edward Spooner states that Cartrwight was “interested in militia groups and weapons training.”

May 2009—Data released by the U.S. Marshals Service indicates that threats to the nation’s judges and prosecutors have more than doubled in the past six years, from 592 in 2003 to 1,278 in 2008. Federal officials blame a number of parties, including the “sovereign citizen” movement—an unorganized grouping of tax protesters, white supremacists, and others who don’t respect federal authority.

May 21-22, 2009—We The People Chairman Bob Schultz hosts a gathering of 30 “freedom keepers” in Jekyll Island, Georgia. The meeting plays “a key role in launching the current resurgence of militias and the larger anti-government ‘Patriot’ movement.” One of the participants, former Texas militia leader Jon Roland, claims the federal government has “been engaging in warlike activity against the American people.”

May 31, 2009—Scott P. Roeder shoots and kills Dr. George Tiller, an abortion provider, in the foyer of Reformation Lutheran Church in Wichita, Kansas. The FBI lists Roeder as a member of the Montana Freemen, a radical anti-government group. In April 1996, he had been pulled over in Topeka, Kansas, for driving with a homemade license plate. Police found a military-style rifle, ammunition, a blasting cap, a fuse cord, a one-pound can of gunpowder, and two 9-volt batteries in his car.

June 10, 2009—James W. von Brunn, a convicted felon and a “hardcore Neo-Nazi,” walks into the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C. and shoots and kills a security guard. Von Brunn believed that Western civilization was going to be replaced with a “ONE WORLD ILLUMINATI GOVERNMENT” that would “confiscate private weapons” in order to accomplish its goals.

June 24, 2009—Hal Turner, a New Jersey resident and white supremacist blogger/radio host, is arrested again after calling for the murder of three Republican-appointed jurists on the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals who had issued a June 2 decision upholding handgun restrictions in Chicago. Writing on his blog, Turner says, “Let me be the first to say this plainly: these judges deserve to be killed,” and includes photographs, phone numbers, work addresses, and room numbers of the judges, as well as a map of Chicago’s federal courthouse which points out its “anti-truck bomb” pylons.

July 15, 2009—Katherine Crabill, a Republican candidate for the Virginia House of Delegates in the state’s 99th District makes headlines by calling on Americans to resist the course President Obama has set for the country. Appearing at a “Tea Party” rally, Crabill quotes a 1775 speech by Patrick Henry and then states, “We have a chance to fight this battle at the ballot box before we have to resort to the bullet box. But that’s the beauty of our Second Amendment right. I am glad for all of us who enjoy the use of firearms for hunting. But make no mistake. That was not the intent of the Founding Fathers. Our Second Amendment right was to guard against tyranny.” This thought is reinforced on Crabill’s campaign website, where she states the Second Amendment “was clearly intended for self defense as well as, and more specifically, to keep the government on notice of an armed citizenry.”

July 31, 2009—On WWJB-AM in Hernando County, Florida, talk radio host Bob Haa takes a call from a listener who mentions ammunition, target practice, and Barack Obama. Haa tells him not to waste his ammunition on targets, to save it for the administration. Haa is later visited by an agent for the Secret Service.

August 3, 2009—After being blamed for the murder of Dr. George Tiller, FOX commentator Glenn Beck cautions his listeners that “just one lunatic like Timothy McVeigh could ruin everything that everyone has worked so hard for.”

August 11, 2009—William Kostric is filmed openly carrying a handgun outside of President Obama’s health care reform town hall meeting in New Hampshire. Kostric holds a sign that reads, “IT IS TIME TO WATER THE TREE OF LIBERTY!” a reference to the following Thomas Jefferson quote: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

August 17, 2009—Chris Broughton openly carries a handgun and AR-15 semiautomatic assault rifle to a health care rally in Phoenix, Arizona. Simultaneously, President Obama addresses a VFW Convention across the street. In a video recorded that day, Broughton states, “What do you think we did in the revolution, in the American Revolution? The British weren’t stealing money from us for health care. They weren’t taxing us the way they are now back then. And what did we do? We forcefully kicked them out of our country, and we will forcefully resist people imposing their will on us through the strength of the majority with a vote.”

July 15, 2009—Katherine Crabill, a Republican candidate for the Virginia House of Delegates in the state’s 99th District makes headlines by calling on Americans to resist the course President Obama has set for the country. Appearing at a “Tea Party” rally, Crabill quotes a 1775 speech by Patrick Henry and then states, “We have a chance to fight this battle at the ballot box before we have to resort to the bullet box. But that’s the beauty of our Second Amendment right. I am glad for all of us who enjoy the use of firearms for hunting. But make no mistake. That was not the intent of the Founding Fathers. Our Second Amendment right was to guard against tyranny.” This thought is reinforced on Crabill’s campaign website, where she states the Second Amendment “was clearly intended for self defense as well as, and more specifically, to keep the government on notice of an armed citizenry.”

July 31, 2009—On WWJB-AM in Hernando County, Florida, talk radio host Bob Haa takes a call from a listener who mentions ammunition, target practice, and Barack Obama. Haa tells him not to waste his ammunition on targets, to save it for the administration. Haa is later visited by an agent for the Secret Service.

August 25, 2009—During a GOP barbecue in Twin Falls, Idaho, an audience member asks Rex Rammell, a candidate in the 2010 Idaho Republican Primary, a question about “Obama tags” during a discussion about state-issued tags for wolf hunting. Rammell responds, “The Obama tags? We’d buy some of those.” In a subsequent press release, he adds, “Anyone who understands the law knows I was just joking, because Idaho has no jurisdiction to issue hunting tags in Washington, D.C.”

August 26, 2009—At a secessionist rally on the state capitol steps in Austin, Texas, gubernatorial candidate Debra Medina states that, “We are aware that stepping off into secession may in fact be a bloody war. We are aware. We understand that the tree of freedom is occasionally watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.”

September 25-26, 2009—Kitty Werthmann, a speaker at the “How to Take Back America” Conference in St. Louis, tells her audience, “If we had our guns [during the time of the Nazis’ reign in Germany], we would have fought a bloody battle. So, keep your guns, and buy more guns, and buy ammunition. Take back America. Don’t let them take the country into Socialism. And I refer again, Hitler’s party was National Socialism. And that’s what we are having here right now, which is bordering on Marxism.”

September 28, 2009—Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA), the Chairman of the Second Amendment Task Force in the U.S. House of Representatives, calls House Speaker Nancy Pelosi a “domestic enemy of the Constitution” at a health care reform town hall meeting.

September 29, 2009—An editorial at the Newsmax website calls for a military coup to oust President Obama.

September 25-26, 2009—Kitty Werthmann, a speaker at the “How to Take Back America” Conference in St. Louis, tells her audience, “If we had our guns [during the time of the Nazis’ reign in Germany], we would have fought a bloody battle. So, keep your guns, and buy more guns, and buy ammunition. Take back America. Don’t let them take the country into Socialism. And I refer again, Hitler’s party was National Socialism. And that’s what we are having here right now, which is bordering on Marxism.”

September 28, 2009—Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA), the Chairman of the Second Amendment Task Force in the U.S. House of Representatives, calls House Speaker Nancy Pelosi a “domestic enemy of the Constitution” at a health care reform town hall meeting.

September 29, 2009—An editorial at the Newsmax website calls for a military coup to oust President Obama.

November 2009—Billboard is erected on I-70 in Lafayette County, Missouri, that promotes “a citizens guide to REVOLUTION.” It urges Missourians to “LIVE FREE OR DIE” and “PREPARE FOR WAR” with a corrupt government. The billboard is highlighted at the Lafayette County Republicans website.

November 11-22, 2009—More than 100 delegates from across the country attend a “Continental Congress” hosted by We The People. Attendees include Neo-Confederate secessionists, “Common Law Court” enthusiasts, adherents of the “Sovereign Citizens” movement, militia backers, and other radicals. Planned at an earlier May meeting in Jekyll Island, the Congress issues a document entitled the “Articles of Freedom” which declares that the federal government “now threatens our Life, Liberty and Property through usurpations of the Constitution.

January 2, 2010—More than 300 people attend a rally in Alamogordo, New Mexico, organized by the local Otero Tea Party Patriots and Second Amendment Task Force. The purpose of the rally is to protest health care reform, and many of the rally’s participants openly carry handguns and/or rifles. One attendee states that his handgun is a “very open threat” to the “socialist communists” in the Obama Administration. “The government fears the people, and a disarmed people are slaves,” he says. “Political power comes from the barrel of a gun … They’re pushing us to our limits.”

January 12, 2010—Charles Allan Dyer, 29, a former Marine with ties to Tea Parties and far-right-wing organizations like Oath Keepers, is arrested at his home on charges of raping a 7 year old-girl. Sheriff’s deputies find several firearms inside Dyer’s home and a Colt M-203 40mm grenade launcher, which was stolen from a military base in Fort Irwin, California, in 2006. Dyer had been an organizer of militia groups in Oklahoma and told one interviewer, “I’m going to use my training and become one of those domestic terrorists that you’re so afraid of from the [Department of Homeland Security (DHS)] reports.” In another video, Dyer states, “With DHS blatantly calling patriots, veterans, and constitutionalists a threat, all that I have to say is you’re damn right we’re a threat. We’re a threat to anyone that endangers our rights and the Constitution of this republic.”

January 12, 2010—Charles Allan Dyer, 29, a former Marine with ties to Tea Parties and far-right-wing organizations like Oath Keepers, is arrested at his home on charges of raping a 7 year old-girl. Sheriff’s deputies find several firearms inside Dyer’s home and a Colt M-203 40mm grenade launcher, which was stolen from a military base in Fort Irwin, California, in 2006. Dyer had been an organizer of militia groups in Oklahoma and told one interviewer, “I’m going to use my training and become one of those domestic terrorists that you’re so afraid of from the [Department of Homeland Security (DHS)] reports.” In another video, Dyer states, “With DHS blatantly calling patriots, veterans, and constitutionalists a threat, all that I have to say is you’re damn right we’re a threat. We’re a threat to anyone that endangers our rights and the Constitution of this republic.”

January 12, 2010—Charles Allan Dyer, 29, a former Marine with ties to Tea Parties and far-right-wing organizations like Oath Keepers, is arrested at his home on charges of raping a 7 year old-girl. Sheriff’s deputies find several firearms inside Dyer’s home and a Colt M-203 40mm grenade launcher, which was stolen from a military base in Fort Irwin, California, in 2006. Dyer had been an organizer of militia groups in Oklahoma and told one interviewer, “I’m going to use my training and become one of those domestic terrorists that you’re so afraid of from the [Department of Homeland Security (DHS)] reports.” In another video, Dyer states, “With DHS blatantly calling patriots, veterans, and constitutionalists a threat, all that I have to say is you’re damn right we’re a threat. We’re a threat to anyone that endangers our rights and the Constitution of this republic.”

February 13, 2010—An unidentified speaker at an event organized by the Lewis and Clark Tea Party Patriots in Asotin County, Washington, tells the audience, “How many of you have watched the movie “Lonesome Dove”? What happened to Jake when he ran with the wrong crowd? He got hung. And that’s what I want to do with [Democratic U.S. Senator] Patty Murray.”

February 18, 2010—Joseph Stack of Austin, Texas, flies a single-engine plane into an office building containing nearly 200 IRS employees, killing one and wounding 13. In a suicide note, Stack lays out his grievances with the federal tax agency, stating, “The law ‘requires’ a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that’s not ‘duress’ than what is. If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is … Violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer.”

March 2, 2010—FOX News commentator Bill O’Reilly, speaking about the McDonald v. Chicago case before the Supreme Court, declares that plaintiff Otis McDonald’s inability to own a handgun in Chicago amounts to “tyranny.” Predicting that four justices on the Court will side with the city of Chicago, O’Reilly states, “It’s interesting that in America today the far Left that wants the government to call the shots, not the folks. In the past, Right-Wing extremists like Hitler and Mussolini were in the forefront of state control. But with the exception of Burma, today’s totalitarians are primarily on the Left.”

March 19-22, 2010—During consideration of health care reform legislation by the U.S. House of Representatives, vandals attack Democratic offices in Pleasant Ridge, Ohio; Wichita, Kansas; Tuscon, Arizona; Niagra Falls, New York; and Rochester, New York. Mike Vanderboegh, the former leader of f the Alabama Constitutional Militia, takes credit for the violence after posting a blog on March 19 that states, “If we break the windows of hundreds, thousands, of Democratic party headquarters across this country, we might just make up enough of them to make defending ourselves at the muzzle of a rifle unnecessary.” Several Democratic members receive death threats, including Rep. Louise Slaughter (D-NY), who is told snipers will “kill the children of the members who voted YES”; Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI), who receives a message saying, “You’re dead; we know where you live; we’ll get you”; and Rep. Betsy Markey (D-CO), whose staffer is told by a caller, “Better hope I don’t run into you in a dark alley with a knife, a club or a gun.” House Minority Leader John Boehner, speaking about Rep. Steve Driehaus (D-OH), says he “may be a dead man.”

March 21, 2010—As the U.S. House of Representatives enters a final round of debate over a controversial health care reform bill, Conservative blogger Solomon “Solly” Forrell calls for the assassination of President Barack Obama on his Twitter account. In two separate postings, Forrel writes, “ASSASSINATION! America, we survived the #Assassinations of #Lincoln & #Kennedy. We’ll surely get over a bullet 2 #BarackObama’s head! … The next #American with a #Clear #Shot should drop #Obama like a bad habit.”

March 23, 2010—After Mike Troxel of the Lynchburg Tea Party and Nigel Coleman of the Danville Tea Party post the home address of the brother of Rep. Tom Perriello (D-VA) and urge supporters to “drop by,” someone deliberately cuts a propane gas line at the house. Rep. Perriello is targeted by the Tea Party activists because of his vote in favor of health care reform. Perriello’s brother and his wife have four children under the age of eight.

March 24, 2010—After voting for health care reform legislation, Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI) and Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) receive faxes with drawings of nooses.

March 25, 2010—Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-NY), who voted for health care reform legislation, receives a package containing white powder and an angry letter telling him to “drop dead .”

March 23, 2010—After Mike Troxel of the Lynchburg Tea Party and Nigel Coleman of the Danville Tea Party post the home address of the brother of Rep. Tom Perriello (D-VA) and urge supporters to “drop by,” someone deliberately cuts a propane gas line at the house. Rep. Perriello is targeted by the Tea Party activists because of his vote in favor of health care reform. Perriello’s brother and his wife have four children under the age of eight.

March 24, 2010—After voting for health care reform legislation, Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI) and Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) receive faxes with drawings of nooses.

March 25, 2010—Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-NY), who voted for health care reform legislation, receives a package containing white powder and an angry letter telling him to “drop dead .”

April 1, 2010—CNN commentator Erick Erickson, questioning the legality of the U.S. Census Bureau’s American Community Survey (ACS), makes the following comment on WMAC-AM radio: “We have become, or are becoming, enslaved by the government … I dare ‘em to try to come throw me in jail. I dare ‘em to. [I’ll] pull out my wife’s shotgun and see how that little ACS twerp likes being scared at the door. They’re not going on my property.”

April 6, 2010—Authorities charge Charles Alan Wilson of Selah, Washington, with threatening a federal official after Wilson makes several phone calls to the office of Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA). Wilson, a concealed handgun permit holder in Washington, was angry about Sen. Murray’s vote for health care reform legislation and told her she had “a target on her back.” He also told Murray, “Since you are going to put my life at risk, and some bureaucrat is going to determine my health care, your life is at risk, dear … I hope somebody puts a…bullet between your…eyes.”

April 7, 2010—Gregory Lee Giusti, 48, of San Francisco, California, is arrested for making threatening phone calls to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA). Giusti allegedly called Pelosi dozens of times, recited her home address, and told her that if she wanted to see it again, she should drop her support for health care reform legislation. Giusti had a “history of mental health problems” and his mother indicated he was influenced by “Fox News and all of those that are really radical

April 13, 2010—Reports surface that state Sen. Randy Brogdon (R-OK) and Rep. Charles Key (R-OK) have met with Oklahoma Tea Party groups to discuss the formation of a new “volunteer militia” to defend against what they see as improprer federal infringements on state sovereignty. Brogdon states that the Founding Fathers “were not referring to a turkey shoot or a quail hunt. They really weren’t even talking about us having the ability to protect ourselves against each other. The Second Amendment deals directly with the right of an individual to keep and bear arms to protect themselves from an overreaching federal government.” One Tea Party leader involved in these meetings, J.W. Berry of the Tulsa-based OKforTea group, has called for the Militia to “launch a thousand guerrilla attacks on the plans that these people have to ruin us and our country.”

May 15, 2010—Referring to a controversial new anti-immigration law in Arizona, FOX News personality Glenn Beck tells the 2010 NRA Convention, “Let’s talk a minute about a ‘well-regulated militia’ and why you might need one because the government isn’t doing their job. Let’s meet people in Texas, Arizona and California.”

May 27, 2010—The Washington Times publishes an editorial claiming that a United Nations treaty seeking to curb the international, illicit trade in smalls arms “would necessarily lead to confication of personal firearms” in the United States. The editorial goes on to say, “Not all insurgencies are bad. As U.S. history shows, one way to get rid of a despotic regime is to rise up against it. That threat is why authoritarian regimes such as Syria, Cuba, Rwanda, Vietnam, Zimbabwe, and Sierra Leone endorse gun control … Governments are a bigger threat to most people than their neighbors.”

May 30, 2010—Sharron Angle, a candidate for the Republican nomination for U.S. Senator in Nevada, tells the Reno Gazette-Journal that a recent increase in gun sales nationwide “tells me that the nation is arming. What are they arming for if it isn’t that they are so distrustful of government? They’re afraid they’ll have to fight for their liberty in more Second Amendment kinds of ways.” These comments echo ones made by Angle in January, when she told conservative radio show talk host Lars Larson, “You know, our Founding Fathers, they put that Second Amendment in there for a good reason and that was for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. And in fact Thomas Jefferson said it’s good for a country to have a revolution every 20 years. I hope that’s not where we’re going, but, you know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I’ll tell you the first thing we need to do is take [U.S. Senator from Nevada] Harry Reid out.”

June 9, 2010—Addressing the Obama administration and the Democratic-controlled Congress, FOX commentator Glenn Beck says, “Shoot me in the head if you try to change our government—I will stand against you. And so will millions of others.” Beck also compares American Progressives to Osama bin Laden and claims “they want to overthrow our entire system of government.”

July 11, 2010—Supporters of Tea Party candidate Joe Miller openly carry assault rifles and handguns during a community parade in Eagle River and Chugiak, Alaska, while young children march alongside them. Miller, who is running against Senator Lisa Murkowski in the Republican primary, was endorsed by former Alaska governor Sarah Palin, who described him as a “true Commonsense Constitutional Conservative.”

October 15, 2010—Conservative radio show host Glenn Beck lays out a hypothetical scenario on the air where the government is considering taking his children because he refused to have them receive a mandatory flu vaccine. Beck tells his audience that his response to the government would be “Meet Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson.”

November 4, 2010—On his radio show, conservative host Glenn Beck fantasizes about President Obama being decapitated during a trip to India, saying, “If anybody thinks he was a Muslim over here, well God forbid, they think he was a Muslim over there because he left his religion for Christianity, death sentence, behead him.” Beck then tells his listeners that “God forbid” this should happen, as there would be a “New World Order” overnight in the United States.

November 4, 2010—Fox News host Bill O’Reilly fantasizes about killing a Washington Post reporter while on the air, saying, “Does sharia law say we can behead Dana Milbank?” O’Reilly also tells co-host Megyn Kelly, “I think you and I should go and beat him up.”

November 9, 2010—U.S. Representative-Elect Allen West of Florida’s 22nd Congressional District hires conservative radio talk show host Joyce Kaufman as his Chief of Staff. On July 3, Kaufman told a crowd of Tea Party supporters, “I am convinced that the most important thing the Founding Fathers did to ensure me my First Amendments rights was they gave me a Second Amendment. And if ballots don’t work, bullets will.”

November 29, 2010—U.S. Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX), the ranking Republican on the House Energy and Commerce Committee, circulates a PowerPoint presentation to his colleagues in which he compares the Obama administration to the Nazi regime in Germany and likens himself to Gen. George Patton, bragging, “Put anything in my scope and I will shoot it.”

“Derek, from many of the comments being made on Swampland regarding this shooting, it appears that we may have a substantial number of mentally ill people right here on this Blog”
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Let me guess, pretend doc earl told you?

We’ve been told over and over again just how totalitarian and horrible we liberals are. Compared to socialists, fascists and all things nasty.
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The instant crazy hits the road it’s just induvidual crazies regardless who set them off.
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This will eventually be swept under the rug (once more) as just crazy people doing crazy stuff. Mark my word tho – if this guy turns out being a ‘leftie’ it will be forefront and kept in the limelight until hell freezes over. Just like the weather underground. Their acts are still a stain on all liberals for some reason.

Already, CNN’s Dana Bash was equating the right wing and liberals as equal offenders.
During the 60s there was the John Birch Society and there have always been militias. And, there was the SLA, the Weathermen, and the Black Panthers. Neither myself or my liberal friends defended the violence on the left.
Today, the violent rhetoric is dominated by the right and reinforced by right wing radio, Fox, and politicians who are too afraid to challenge the hate.

Why the F&%K is this even a political issue?
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Shut the hell up and respect that flag being flown and half staff and think about what YOU can do to correct this, you arrogant dipsh!ts!
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Oh wait, this is all about the ego’s of the dumb@ss posters on this blog (who don’t give a crap about the law or the country)…
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Nevermind.

“Why the F&%K is this even a political issue?
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Shut the hell up and respect that flag being flown and half staff and think about what YOU can do to correct this, you arrogant dipsh!ts!
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Oh wait, this is all about the ego’s of the dumb@ss posters on this blog (who don’t give a crap about the law or the country)…
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Nevermind.”
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If someone gets killed for political reasons; whether they’re a republican or democrat, it IS a political issue.
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At best this is just a confused crazy person why targeted ANY politician. Lets say because he felt that neither party represented America anymore.
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Lets say he’s a leftie that is disgusted by her for being a ‘blue dog’ democrat. It’s still political.
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Lets say he’s a rightie that killed her for being a democrat. It’s still political.
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Also – what the hell do ‘respect the flag being flow on half staff’ really mean? We’re showing no respect because we’re tired of the nature of the discourse, where we no longer can talk about the problems in our country without fear of someone using it as a reason to kill someone? I would consider it the greatest form of respect that we show absolutely no tolerance to anything that threatens our democratic process.
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Last – we don’t care about the law or the country? You are unreal. I don’t tolerate this kind of sh!t – how that is not about the law or the country is absolutely beyond me.
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And thank you for using your free speech rights to tell us to shut up.
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Now tell the crazies that too. They’re going to need it even more than we do, because we have absolutely no intention of killing anyone over our opinions.
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Like i told newfreedom when he wanted us to use this as a moment to reflect and pray…I told him that maybe he should tell the crazies to do that instead. They need to reflect over these acts. I don’t. I have no intention of using this event, or any other event as a reason to hurt anyone. See the difference?
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Get over your discomfort. This is not about you anyways.

3X,
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You get made fun of here.
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Notice that nobody has even vaguely implied doing any harm to you or the politicians you support.
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You are just extraordinarily inappropriate right now.
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What is known:
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The shooter had extremely severely disordered and even incoherent thinking.
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The shooter made references to some current events.
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The far right which you vehemently support have made thinly veiled threats against Democrats.
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The shooter targeted the congressman and, possibly, the federal judge as well.
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Can you see that if Bob Dole instead of Sarah Palin was the primary voice of the right that this would have been dramatically less likely to happen or are you so dense as to imagine that, coincidentally, all of the terrorism of the past thirty years has been right against left?

Apr,
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I wish I wrote that.
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That covered everything.
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No matter how hard any conservative tries, they will not find rhetoric even vaguely similar from the left.
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You’re a gift to this website.
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Thanks Apr.

Sasquatch!
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I have always referred to you as a very reasonable voice of self described libertarians.
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Then you look at a mass murder and assassination attempt of a congresswoman and pretend that it was just a coincidence that she was a congresswoman and that the other one murdered was a federal judge.
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What would you say if (and – let me state the obvious that I do not wish for this in the least) Rand Paul was shot and killed today by an insane person?
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Would you have said that it could have just as easily been Paul’s mailman, the pizza delivery guy or the lawyer walking his dog down the street or would you have every reason in the world to believe that this was political in nature?
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This isn’t about either reasonably clear headed people nor posters on some blog for political junkies (Swampland among many others, I mean).
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This is about public figures such as the many Apr brought up inciting the very unreasonable.
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You are neither a person with hundreds, thousands or millions of listeners/readers nor, it is safe to say, a mentally unhealthy dangerous person.
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FWIW, here in this relatively extremely tiny audience, you, despite having dramatically less responsibility than, say, Glenn Beck, have never been a part of the actual “lock and load” rhetoric.
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Like me, but more often than on the opposite side of the issue, have been a part of, literally suggesting that people be responsible, informed decisions and vote preferably the way that you believe.
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It’s not about you.

Sasquatch,
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About two or three times since you last posted I gave you a shout out as a reasonable libertarian.
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At this moment I feel like I just recommended a friend for a job only to see him show up an hour late, unshaven and a bad attitude from giving you that shout out.

Apr, what patrick said. Thanks for your comments / links. I’m amazed how you put up with daily crap RW trolls fling at you. I’m also amazed how the reporters here put up with it too …and am puzzled why they don’t delete the most egregious insults. As I wrote to hippooath in Jay’s last post, those here on the right tend to initiate anger more than the left or center. Why? Their R / TP brethren now have the House and they’ve had more R presidents than the D’s …and more chances to trash the economy, which W’s administration sure as hell did. Why are they p1ssed off at us (as proven by latest comments)? I don’t get it.

“Hateful comments are made by both sides of our body politics and here on the Swamp on a daily bases. Both sides are equally guilty. For every supposed evil comment made on FOX, there are similar comments made on MSNBC and other Networks and Media.”
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3X,
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Explain why all of the attacks the past 30 years have been against liberals and none have been against conservatives.
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You two options:
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First, people in that state of mind react to extreme rhetoric and the overwhelming majority of this extreme rhetoric is from the far right.
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Or
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The far right is the only place on the spectrum unstable people feel comfortable with.
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This is a time for you to, the next time you hear a right wing commentator go over the top, send in an email and say that, no matter how much you agree with them, you wish those statement were not made and that you would, yourself and persuade your friends to stop listening/watching unless the rhetoric calms down.
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Please send a link to Rachel Maddow or Keith Olberman saying that Republicans had a secret plot to murder handicapped children and the elderly the way Sarah Palin said of the secret death panels or admit that the left has been kind and gentle by comparison.

“Your analysis shows that you have a very good understanding of mental illness and you are right that this person in not commiting a political act but the act of a crazy person. People should not be trying to use the actions of this mentally ill person to score political points against the other political party.”
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Pure amateur, just have an interest in the topic. I was trying to guess at the nature of the terrorist before the information came out.
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By the way, I am open to any argument, supported by the facts. If someone can prove language, or logos, or reason, or whatever you want to call it, causes human beings to commit terrible acts, why would I deny the evidence, especially if I am truly committed to reason?
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My sense is Freud was saying human behavior operates primarily at a sub-logos level. The real forces at work take us back to caveman days, you might say, where sex and violence ruled the day, the domain of the propagandists and PR folk, for decades now. People who use the power of symbols to appeal to our base instincts.

But public relations normally moves the “Herd,” not a single being, possibly suffering from mental illness. It can only get women to take up smoking or something like that.

It also seems to me that the issue of talk therapy is in some question now, whether there is any efficacy to it at all. The best results today, for people with mental illness, seem to be coming from drugs that balance out chemical ratios. What if the self can be reduced to that? In fact, the body does seem to determine the person to a great extent.

Derek,
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Let me go OT with you:
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“It also seems to me that the issue of talk therapy is in some question now, whether there is any efficacy to it at all. The best results today, for people with mental illness, seem to be coming from drugs that balance out chemical ratios. What if the self can be reduced to that? In fact, the body does seem to determine the person to a great extent.”
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I have two relatives who are PhD psychologists.
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Psychiatrists, who only need four years of Psychology but a full medical degree as well are the only ones who can prescribe medications. Psychologist are talk only.
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Not having studied myself, I can not rattle off the list of illnesses best resolved exclusively by talk therapy, which ones can be resolved by medication only and which ones should have both as a general rule, but, I do know that there is a book named the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual which creates the standardized categorizing of mental illness and treatment. psychologists and psychiatrists must use this guide as a condition of their license.
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About twenty years ago there was a big controversy when the DSM removed homosexuality from mental disorders. The argument was that homosexuality did not inherently cause unhappiness and, in it’s own right never did harm to others and, therefore, was not a mental illness. The cynics reaction was that they took it off the list because gay activists demanded it and that there has never been successful treatment changing a homosexual to heterosexual. So, neither psychologists nor psychiatrists are allowed to treat anything not on the list.
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That’s just a point of reference.
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I, myself, read a great book for laypeople on Evolutionary psychology. More or less, it is normal psychology and why, as a product of evolution, we are prone to particular types of behavior after spending tens of thousands of years as hunters and gatherers and, prior to that, as primates.
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As for Jared Lee Loughner, the non-specific term “disordered thinking” very obviously applies. But, I do think it would be out of my range to specifically say that it is paranoid schizophrenia.

patricksartor I think they have been trying to change the word schizophrenia to something else for some time now, because of how many varieties there are. Most people think it has something to do with having multiple personalities.

The terrorist just seemed to have a lot of the attributes one associates with thought disorders and I was only guessing. My comment on the efficacy of talk therapy, as a cure, is something I’ve heard more often recently. However, there does seem to be agreement that a combination of the drugs and cognitive therapy, one addressing the positive symptoms and one the negative, seems to be the way to go. The big problem is getting the people who have the illness to cooperate, long-term. As you probably know, denial of the illness, is also a common symptom.

Thanks, stuart.
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I don’t think though that you fully understand my conduct over the years though.
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Being “responsible” is one thing, but at certain times, it is not what will effect change.
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Though sometimes I’ve “colored outside the lines, intentionally or not” (see a recent barrage directed at earljr1 on another thread), I am consistent in the practice of bringing immediate and harsh opposition to some of things posted on this thread.
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We have had deep discussions about this in the past, and you yourself once expressed fear and amazement after perusing one of rusty’s websites.
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Your commentary is generally the most useful on this thread in terms of depth of knowledge etc etc, yet, despite it’s high content, I doubt that it has had (nor did you ever intend it to, I think) any significant impact on reducing the level of hatred that has been projected here (or anywhere else in politics).
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You educate. You have time.
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I am trying to put a genie back in the bottle.
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The reason why that self-description is an accurate one is because hate speech and rhetoric, propagandization, and fear mongering have been allowed and accepted as mainstream discourse.
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And that is what really was an irresponsible thing to do.
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The American people allowed the GOP to open Pandora’s box, and that, despite the lessons to be learned from the OKC bombing…

PNNTO:
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You know why I’m not surprised, don’t you?

Patrick and decon: Thanks for your support. I really enjoy interacting with so many here. And, I learn something new every day.

I have two words for you, 3xfire3, just to refresh your incoherency:
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The OKC bombing…

Nevermind is right, sasquatch:
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Get your peers to STFU!
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Your image is not our problem. It is yours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is the kind of rhetoric that will lead someone to devalue a life enough to end it…

Looks like the far right has out-killed Al-Queda two years in a row…

I’m referring to the examples you present, to be specific.
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Sorry…

“Speaking of which, where is yours?”
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It’s in the writings you posted, his actions, the hospital and the morgue. And in the “country…awash in mindless, [anti-government] violent rhetoric.” If you can’t or won’t parse the evidence you yourself identify, don’t say it doesn’t exist.

a) This kook is a “left wing pothead” as on e former classmate described him. It is interesting that once again, the left uses a tragic situation in order to lie and propagandize and take away MORE freedoms and liberty and gain more control over the people. And the idiot sheriff of Pima Cty and you left wing anti-American bloggers here are quick to jump on the band wagon.
b) The daily Kos web site has more venom and violence advocated with political motivation than any other media outlet.
c) The media may be trying to solidify the left wing coup currently gripping the USA but the November elections tell a far different story of middle of mainstream America.

Never mind all the assassination talk and MOVIE when GWB was President.
And this is a typical Daily Kos poster (they have since santized their web site, WHY?
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=249273

This is the price we all pay when elected representatives of the people ignore the will of the people and the law of the land and mentally unstable whackjobs are ignored. Leftists are the most violent ones, as one can see when they review a list of crimes and tragedies over the last few decades. Less government is better. More jobs are better. And better education, rather than just more money thrown at education, is better for the mental health of America. The Democrat destruction of our economy and their abuse of the Constitution has created a deep divide and a serious situation for America. Hopefully the current COngress and the nest one, Purged of more leftists, will make progress towards restoring what we once had in this country.
The extreme vitriol and lies spewed by you leftists on this board and others doesn’t make for a better USA. But you all don’t really give a #$%^! As long as you came blame the right.

For those of you saying “we have no idea why he did it” and “it might not be political at all”. Take a gander at his youtube rants about the “Second Constitution” (basically anything added after the initial radification) and how that is our, that the country is being run unconstitutionally by allowed those “extra” amendments and that his duty as American is to fix that.

Thanks Tea Party for the “Second Amentment Solution” speeches.

Does he have a problem that transcend politics? Definitely! But he may never have acted on thenm without such televised “approval”.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/29/palin.noose/

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/

Obama says, If they bring a knife, we bring a gun”

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/

Peace loving lefties Palin hanging from a noose

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/29/palin.noose/

When extremism makes inroads, the roads lead to death and destruction. I think that our nation has been exposed to inane and insane rhetoric by extremists who are intent on pursuing their agenda (and lining their pockets) regardless of the consequences. The extremists are posing as politicians (Palin) and as news media (Fox news) and radio talk shows (Limbaugh) to name a few. They are not helping this nation solve its problems; they are creating more problems. Although Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, O’Reilly, etc. are not directly responsible their irresponsible comments and political rants have created a climate in which the less mentally stable have their views reinforced and are thereby encouraged to commit heinous acts such as what happened in Tucson. Palin may not have pulled the trigger, but she put the cross-hairs on Gifford.

Maybe Palin will be frightened to appear in public or at book signings as it’s possible someone on left, or even far right that disagrees with her, may take 2nd ammendment remedy? Naw, she loves the money/attention too much to be worried.

Great compilation. It shows how “crazy” the left is? Where is all the violence directed toward the right? I haven’t heard of any, but with false equivalencies Faux News & others will turn this into a “leftist” attack. If he belongs to the Tea Party, doesn’t that make them a terrorist organization?

In 2004 the DNC had a similar “target” map to Palins. In just the last 2 years Obama himself said, “If they bring a knife, we’ll bring a gun” and regarding the possible takeover in the House, “it will be hand-to-hand combat.” Curious no one is blaming them, though.

It couldn’t be that an unstable freak decided to target her. It must be Arizona’s fault. Just like the shootings at Columbine were Colorado’s fault, the Virginia shootings Virginia’s, etc. Or maybe they were all instigated by politics!!! Morons.

It’s a crazy S.O.B. not politics that did this. I really dislike what some politicians stand for, doesn’t mean I’m going to shoot them.

ALL of us, need to find a way ASAP, to put a lid, on C-R-A-Z-Y!

Strong language incites folks, alas!
Frenzied talk is both dangerous and crass.
Such awareness sure should
Get applied to Fort Hood,
But it doesn’t — Islam gets a pass.

if there is no louder mouthpiece for the sick demented liberal mind I give you obama in his own words at a campaign stop in philly:

they bring a knife to a fight we bring a gun.

and they say the right is full of hate. look at your leaders on the looney toon left and stfu!

oh yea one more thought: the only good liberal is a dead liberal because a dead liberal can tell no lies. how the liberal dies i don’t really care. i simply hope they don’t drain the national treasures on their way out.

Following the right-wing logic – we do not have proof or validated studies that Pakistani madrassas and Taliban are behind suicide bombings. So each suicide bombing could be just another individual nut case. So why do they support all the sacrifice of our blood and treasure in Afganistan?

Factions of republicans have used intimidation and incitement with a nod and wink from GOP (particularly in last couple years) for political gain. They may deny, but they know it.

Maybe you should consider “walking back” your factually inaccurate assertion that Giffords is pro-life. Representative Giffords has a 100% pro-choice rating from NARAL.

I f*cking knew this would happen as soon I saw the reports of her shooting this morning! You have no idea what happened here, yet you’re going to push this narrative that her shooting had nothing to do with the irresponsible rhetoric of ‘target lists’ or ‘not retreating … reloading’ or ‘getting on target … unseating Giffords … shooting an M16!’

Regardless of the effect in this specific case, responsible politicians need to reconsider their use of violent rhetoric when describing their specific opponents. They can easily state their case without implying that their opponents should be assassinated. It’s not asking that much.

Could one reason the shooting took place be that this mentally sick individual passed a gun background check?

Let me not infer too much about this possibility, and leave it to the much wiser pro-gun commenters to decide.

The fact is that the right wing HAS taken a turn for the darkside like we’ve not seen before. They have begun inciting violence and have created a huge gap in reasonable discourse among the citizens of this country. You can always tell a failed argument when they start invoking God as being ‘on our side’ like we see from the right today.
Whether this kid shot these people for political reasons or not, is, in some ways, less important than the fact that this discussion is way overdue. Look at your own obvious hate and anger over this. You are a perfect demonstration of right wing extremism.
I used to think that the only reason the right is even allowed to continue in our political arena is because they have a better propaganda machine than the left, but now I realize it is not a ‘better’ machine.
It is simply a dangerous machine.
Hopefully, this event will mark the beginning of the end for a political agenda that has lost its way. Perhaps the deaths and suffering involved in all of this will not have occurred in vain.

I hope you don’t walk around threatening to kill people in your normal course of life. It’s not nice and bad things can happen.

Thanks George, but for those who want to see where Palin got the idea for a congressionl “target” list, click on his link and you will see the Democratic map with a “bullseye” shown just like Palins. “Let him who is without sin, cast the first stone”.

Do I remember a Democratic member of congress shooting at a target with a pic of the Health care bill? Wrong party……etc. Did I just see in the Arizona press that fellow students described the shooter as a “pot head liberal”? Must be seeing things again.

Totally disgusted. The poor souls are not even cold in their coffins and this crap “the blame game” is in high gear.

…And hear is the punch line….I am a registered Independant and not a republican.

If you are too ignorant to consider someone posting online his hatred of the govt. and then shooting a Congresswoman & Federal Judge political than you are a fool. Perhaps the most ignorant person posting here. Being a libertarian doesn’t also come with it the right to spout stupidities. And I suppose Arizona having the most lax gun laws in the country had nothing to do with it. And as for patriotism, my family arrived here in 1651, helped write the documents those on the right twist to their own meanings and the other half of my parentage was here long before the whites! So as for libertarianism, why don’t you go back home you illegal, none of my ancestors checked YOU or YOUR kind in at the border!!!

All of the rhetoric isn’t coming from just one side and both sides can be really viscious.

http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/

A friend of mine , a world-class astrologer ,

said that the accused-shooter had MAJOR PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUES AROUND AUTHORITY FIGURES…. HE (THE ACCUSED) EVEN HAD ARGUMENTS WITH THE RULES OF GRAMMAR.

RECEIVED A NICE LETTER FROM THE VICTIM AND THE ACCUSED “COULD NOT HANDLE” THE CONTRADICTION : AND WENT BALLISTIC :

FURTHER EVIDENCE SUGGESTS THAT THE CONGRESSWOMAN WAS THE PRIMARY TARGET : 1ST SHOT POINT-BLANK :

AND THEN THE SHOOTER TOTALLY “LOST IT” :

INSANE:

(1) Evidence that Loughner was probably a democrat:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/jared-lee-loughner-suspected-gabrielle-giffords-shooter-school/story?id=12575278

“According to court documents released today, authorities discovered a safe in Loughner’s home with a thank you letter from Giffords for attending a Congress on Your Corner event in 2007 — the same kind of event Loughner allegedly assaulted Saturday.”

Strong evidence that Loughner was a disgruntled democrat nut. No conservative, tea party, or republican literature found in his safe. No evidence found that he attended republican or tea party political events.

(2) No evidence of from his friends that Loughner listened to talk radio or FOX News. No evidence from his friends that he was a tea party advocate. Plenty of evidence he listened to heavy metal music and smoked dope, both cultural influences of the left.

(3) The strongest evidence that Loughner was a leftist nut is his own YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

Note the flag burning video with Satanic music and lyrics. Flag burning and anti-Christian sentiments are indicative of the left. Right wingers don’t burn flags. Note the interest in leftist reading material such as “Mein Kampf” and “The Communist Manifesto”.

Congratulations to Sarah Palin and her ilk: 3 down, including a 9-year-old girl.

Wash as you may, there’s still blood on your hands.

“Yes it is and it’s all coming from the right-wing of the body politic. Nobody on the left is talking about “Second Amendment remedies,” and Joe Biden isn’t listing political enemies and literally putting a target on them for public consumption. I’ll wait and see what this nut job’s politics are but do you really want to be he’s not a Glenn Beck fan?” Shepardwong
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You could not be more wrong if you stated the sun rises in the East. Plus you have a short memory. No one complained When protesters were carrying signs at George Bush rallies calling for his assassination.
The left is just as guilty of spewing hate. Hows about we all get together and spew some love

And Katy you are irresponsible and foolish and bad combination for a journalist

It’s a link the the Huffington post – a very unbiased news agency that always verifies their sources and never selectively pushes their views. ( yes – sarcasm)

It also concentrates on its hatred towards Palin yet ignores statements of Jared’s friends that say he was actually quite liberal and leftist. Oh but lets not concentrate on those silly reported details. Lets have a link by Times, to a speculative opinionated new agency that cherry pick irrelevant facts and ignores substantial ones.

Why because someone how this is Palin and the Tea Party’s fault, even though evidence obviously points the other direction.

Of course, in real journalism, this would be pointed out. But spin gets you so much more attention. That’s why Google is also posting this as front page news – a blog. No wait, its a blog pointing to another blog.
Journalism is so dead!

And like any good t-bagger he’s pro-gun rights, distrusts/hates the federal govt. He must be a member of the t-baggers and if so doesn’t that make the t-baggers a terrorist organization?

The left has absolutely NO business lecturing the right about violent invective. The language used during the Bush years was of grave concern to any citizen. It was very violent. And let’s not forget the violence of Mr. Obama’s pastor…nor of Mr. Obama’s own rhetoric.
There are MANY other examples.

Again, you people on the left who are trying to pin it on Palin (I’m no fan myself), are out of line and need to shut up or face the huge backlash that is coming your way if you persist. You think that you took a shellacking in November…just keep it up and it will be double that in 2012.

Do not politicize this tragedy or you will pay a political price.

Trying to divine a cause for this tragedy is like trying to assign a cause for where lighting touches down.
The blame game should be insulting to both sides of the political spectrum. Other than the maniacal act of this criminal shooter, the other blatant irresponsibility I see is the pot-stirring of the all too numerous “journalists” who lack credentials to even instigate these discussions. PLEASE STICK TO REPORTING THE FACTS PLEASE!

Timing is everything. For those who opportunistically use these tragedies to make connections such as the Palin crosshairs map, please take the time to educate yourselves. In 2004, the Democratic side posted a map with bullseyes on a map in practically the identical way. You can google the key words and choose from the site of your choosing to verify.

As for the “journalists”, your continued salvos of unsubtantiated BS certainly pay you dividends. Just look at the number of posts on this one blog. This type of amateur “reporting” is unfortunately a price that we all pay for the new world of endless “news” channels.
So we will have to live with this opportunism. These opinions only muddy the water. The responsibility of distinguishing fact from drivel falls on each individual. The good news is that freedom of speech will trump everything. My worry is that clear thought and rationale will be carried off the cliff along with the wave of raving lemmings.

Katy Steinmetz’ own hysterical assertions are enough to incite violence. Where does it stop?

Yeah! You are stepping on our First Amendment Freedoms when you say we shouldn’t create an atmosphere of hate and use violent imagery in our rhetoric. Just because someone on the radio says “squash the cockroaches” doesn’t mean the genocide of machete hacking had anything to do with it.

Unless you can prove that this person voted Republican and was elected to office under the Republican ticket, then there is no way our spewing hate had any influence on this disturbed individual. Just because we told everyone to come join us at a shooting range and exercise our Second Amendment remedies if the election didn’t go our way doesn’t men we meant it.

…and you can’t prove otherwise so it must be true.

Well said.

Don’t blame Sarah. See: https://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/it-isnt-sarahs-fault/

Abusers of the 1st amendment like Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity,O’Reilly et al are equally as guilty as the trigger man in this case. The constant and relentless rhetoric of anger, fear, and government victimization sent this kid into a tizzy. Manipulating people with fear is the MO of the republican party. They did it with the phony “war on terror” and fear is why Bush got elected to a second term. This and the constant barrage of lies spread by Palin and the right led to this murder. Republicans as a whole need to be put on trial. It is amazing that Americans tolerate these 1st Amendment abuses. The 1st amendment that guarantees freedom of expression does not mean license for irresponsible ambitious politicians like Palin to spread hate and fear and government mis-trust.

Is this man not a “TERRORIST?”

If he had shot a serviceman, lit his under pants on fire aboard a plane, obtained and released supposed secret documents, the “right?” would have been all over him, but where are they now?

Sitting on their collective hands, that’s where.
It was a democratic (political party, not our American way of life) rally after all, everyone knows that it must have been some sort of subversive commies, hell bent on turning America into FRANCE or some other GOD awful place like that.

They were probably espousing the Health Care Reform Bill and how sick people may be able to receive the same medical care available to those who can afford to pay tens of thousands of dollars annually to be thrown off the insurance companies health care plans, when they have the gall to get sick.

The right wing talking points trying to deflect attention from the hateful, violent rhetoric spewing form the likes of Sarah Palin, Sharron Angle, and others are simply unbelievable.

If the shooter was brown and Muslim you would be calling for the next invasion of a middle eastern country and rounding up anyone who might be a sympathizer, while simultaneuosly demanding that every member of that community stand up and repudiate terrorism.

But the right wing, from politicians to pundits to their followers refuse to take any responsibility for throwing around veiled threats of violence, demonizing the president and his party, and talking as if armed insurrection was just around the corner.

Worse, you try to turn the tables and claim he was a leftist nutcase. I suppose if our centrist, technocratic president can be cast as a dangerous far left socialist anything is possible.

What does the Republican party do anymore other than release videos (press conferences) of their spiritual leaders (politicians) issuing fatwas against the immorality and criminality of the American government, in order to rouse the faithful zealots to take to the streets and use fear, intimidation and violence to acheive their political ends, all the while refusing to uphold their most basic duties and Senators and Congresspeople. What a disgrace!

Ms. Steinmetz is complicit in arming idiots with incendiary misinformation. Witness the paid partisan posting going on.

Whether or not Mama Barracuda was to blame for this, her Lock’n'Load shtick is another of her angles to draw attention to herself (though when actually filmed, many savvy hunters realized she’s a bit of a poser). It wouldn’t take much to set off an unstable person like this. I think the guy would be drawn by the anti-establishment, finger-pointing, blame-it-all-on-someone-else nature of Sarah, than any political association – people like this want to complain – they DON’T CARE about solutions because they’d rather stay miserable and blame it on others

Who will be next on Palin’s hit list?

I imagine Jared thought he was just implementing his “second amendment remedies” that Sharron Angle talked about during her recent campaign.

When a government rams things down the throats of the public against their will it inflames even normal, informed and wise citizens. That is made even more inflammatory by master baiters and sarcastic taunters like Maddow, etc. Slap with a glove, expect a challange!
But to blame rhetoric or guns for insanity is as ignorant as claiming knives created Jack the Ripper.

rraaww

Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”

…to his followers: “Get in Their Faces!”

… on ACORN agitators: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”

… to the community organizers “Hit Back Twice As Hard”

…on American business: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“

…. to the voters: “Republican victory would mean hand to hand combat”

…to the Democrtic supporer4s: “It’s time to Fight for it.”

…to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”

… “I’m itching for a fight.”

rhetoric or incitement? I guess it goes to intent.

Wonderful comment. Anyone discussing things with you is blessed.

Talk about setting a fire and showing back up as a fireman—
Has anyone other than me noticed that the original blog by Katy Steinmetz of
“Posted by Katy Steinmetz Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 2:37 pm”
has been revised as the heat has been turned up on her original comments?
The thought of underhanded manipulation comes to mind.
You folks should possibly consider where you really want to get your information from.

There probably won’t be anymore Palin/Teaparty Hitlists – when it gets this far out-of-control, Sarah usually responds (by staying quiet …. never by admitting any possible connection).

I’m more curious about what she’ll say at rallies after she cuts back on the “Lock’n'Load” rhetoric (it was getting “rawther boring” anyway). I guess she can still criticize and finger-point, but she’ll have to tone that down too – maybe even quit exaggerating/lying to rile up her supporters. Almost seems like she’ll have nothing to say… Hopefully she’ll start rallying support the usual way – by showing she’s got better ideas with detailed plans to SOLVE the concerns of the Tea Party.

The 1st Amendment can be abused, and with this case I doubt Sarah or the ACLU will push legality. I hope this creates a turning point for current, divisive politics – certain sectors claim patriotism, but push “Us vs. Them” and never consider “United We Stand, Divided We Fall” even when the country needs EVERYONES effort to solve major problems.

What a bunch of silly fools. Listen to yourselves.

Some of you just couldn’t wait to jump on this and pin it on those you oppose POLITICALLY like chickens jumping on a june bug. Why? Because you want to silence everyone’s voice but your own. How freaking democcratic of you. Guess who the real totalitarian acting ones are? YOU !!!

You’ve also got egg all over your faces, This guy is described by those who know him as a pot smoking ultra left winger. Not that those beliefs caused him to do what he did. Why is it so hard to accept that this guy was freaking mentally ill? Mental illness does not choose sides politically. It is an equal opprtunity disease. Lose the shameful bipartisan BS out of respect for those who lost loved ones.

As they lie about your leaders intentions , remind them of THEIR’S !!!

“Don’t you think we’re not keeping score, brother” – Chairman Obama

“Bring it on”- Obama Regime to The American People.

“Get ready for hand-to-hand combat with your fellow Americans” – Obama

“I want all Americans to get in each others faces! – Obama

“You bring a knife to a fight pal, we’ll bring a gun” – Obama

“Republicans are our enemies”–Obama

** Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”

** Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”

** Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“

** Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”

** Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”

** Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”

** Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”

“the Cambridge Police acted Stupidly” ” – Beer Summit Gaffe Leader

“God Damn America” – Barrack Hussein Obama’s Spiritual Advisor

“We should rip the heart right out of the chest of a former Vice President of The United States!”
– Left Wing Hate Hero And Agitator for Leftist Terrorism – Shultz

Most Divisive Administration In History.

Pure baloney. The guy is described by his classmates as a pot smoking uitraliberal. Oooooops!! Do you suppose he got those values from the right? Get real man and drop the finger pointing. It makes you look really, really unintelligent.

Lose the shameful bipartisan BS out of respect for those who lost loved ones.

Very well put.

Why did Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme try to assassinate President Gerald Ford? Why did John Hinckley, Jr. try to assassinate President Ronald Reagan. Why did Mark David Chapman assassinate John Lennon? Why was actress Rebecca Schaeffer murdered by obsessed fan Robert Bardo? By all accounts in the news so far, Jared Lee Loughner was an unhinged left-wing, pot smoking kook. Lots of pointless speculation and pointless attempts to assign blame. Who knows what goes on in the head of a deranged person?

Your blind, knee-jerk bias is so old, boring and passe it only bears the reading or hearing by yourself. I know you must revel in your own perceived intellegence and think of yourself as one of the betters among us whom we all should be blessed and enthrlled by hearing, but that 60′s crap won’t fly in a world where people are not captive to a loser prof or a cocktail peer “aren’t we all soooo smart” gab fest. Other people are smart, informed and think. Find one and learn something, including that you might be mistaken. Been there, did that.

And today it is all to clear that much like the nutball the flew his plain into the IRS building with his priate plane not but a few months ago. This NUTBALL was a leftist..

You SCUM bags have a lot of nerve!

Idiot not unlike the leftwing nut that flew his plane into the IRS building a couple months ago this jackass has now been proven to be a left wing nut like you.

Some of you people are acting just as crazy as the shooter. This guy was nuts! People who are nuts don’t act rationally to anything, trying to figure out what set him off is just as nuts but easier than your making it out to be. What set him off was “HE IS NUTS” that’s it. external influences aren’t causes of his behavior, internal crazy is. It’s as simple as that. Placing him in a group of right or left is as crazy as his actions.

“Is this man not a ‘TERRORIST?’”

Speaking of which…hearing the right-wingers claim this atrocity has nothing to do with the Tea Party or conservatives or the GOP is like hearing the Muslims claim that 9/11 has nothing to do with Islam. It kind of turns my stomach.

Despite their heated denials, we have, Ladies and Gentlemen, witnessed in the past few years the emergence of the American Taliban, newly fledged from their talk radio madrasahs — atavistic, paranoid, delusional, fanatical, armed (thanks to the 2nd Amendment and the NRA) to the teeth and, as we have just seen, homicidal.

It’s irrelevant what this particular nutjob’s politics are, it was the American Taliban — Tea Party, Talk Radio, anti-government Libertarians, the GOP — who incited him and, because of the very nature of their polemic, will incite others like him, including the thousands of right-wing dittoheads in their online echo chambers, who need only a means and opportunity. You know them well. They aren’t hard to spot.

Fortunately, many of them are just frothing-at-the-mouth geezers on meds and will soon pass into that good night. But some, like this shooter, didn’t get their meds in time. Alas, there are many more out there — stupid, angry, untreatable — ranting in the blogs about healthcare, socialism, “our freedoms,” the “libruls,” government, Obama — armed and ready to do the bidding of the mullahs of America’s right wing, financed by the Koch brothers and their ilk, America’s equivalent of the Bin Ladens. Scary thought.

I don’t think this guy had any political cause or association – he read Communist Manifesto, but also Mein Kampf (Hitler hated communists) – he was just an anti-establishment crazy person who turned into anti-everyone (he shot a 9-year old girl for God’s sake). Maybe we’ll learn if he shot Gibbons because she supported healthcare, but that little girl wasn’t involved with it.

No political association, but he still could have been influenced by/riled up by any group that was known to be (by media attention) LOUDLY anti-establishment.

His reading material wasn’t that odd? You idiot his favorite book is listed as the communist manifesto.

He and the IRS bombers were communist sympthisers…

More left wing lunacy…

OK, now just take you meds and go back to sleep.
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It doesn’t matter what this psycho’s politics were — and you have no idea what they were, any more than the right-wing echo chamber you let do your thinking.
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What matters is that it was your right wing — your Tea Party, your GOP, your anti-government Libertarian crackpots, your talk radio, facilitated by fascist fat-cats like the Koch brothers — who incited him.
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You have absolutely nothing to say on this matter, because you are part of the problem.

Oh look, someone’s throwing a lifebuoy to the right wing. Watch them eagerly and gratefully grabbing at it.

people, the civil way to have discourse is to do what the canadians do: disagree and do it with conviction and no threats. try it sometime.

@jabberwolf: “ignores statements of Jared’s friends that say he was actually quite liberal and leftist…”
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That may be the way you see the world, but no reports I’ve found remotely fit that picture. Perhaps you could enlighten us with your highly credible sources.

And to validate what you say, look how you’re being jumped by the knuckle-draggers. One with “he was really a left winger” according to his expert, a classmate.

Hey, Geniuses, it doesn’t matter what his politics are — and you don’t have a clue (nitwit classmates don;t count) — he was INCITED by your right-wing Tea Party, GOP and talk radio. Since you can’t slither yourselves out of this, any more than your NRA pals can slither out from the latest gun outrage, why don’t you all just slither back under your wet rocks? Or take your meds, turn over and go back to sleep.

You are of course correct but there is an AGENDA in this country by the ultraleft to silence the voice of those who are not marching lock step with them politically. It is packaged under the “Fairness Doctrine”. It is simply unacceptable to them that anyone other than liberals be allowed to voice their opinion.

Regardless of facts, the Fairness Doctrine ultraleftists will attempt to hijack any tragedy for their own selfish purposes. Is it not obvious that this shooter was mentally ill? Even if he wasn’t, it’s now known that he was, in fact, on the extreme left politically. That falls on deaf ears to the agenda driven zealots. Just understand what motivates them and that there is no reasoning with those who bow down at the throne of MoveOn.org.

Here’s a good op-ed that pretty well states the facts as they now appear:
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http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/editorial/bs-ed-giffords-shooting-20110110,0,6536410.story
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Some choice quotes: The editorial first concedes that “Mr. Loughner does not appear to have been connected in any way with the tea party, and it is unlikely that he was motivated by the poster Ms. Palin distributed during the fall campaign that depicted crosshairs over several targeted congressional districts, including Ms. Giffords’.”
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The article goes on, however, to examine the rhetoric of the tea party:
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“Putting crosshairs over congressional districts, in a world where threats against our elected representatives are on the rise, is not cute, and it is not funny. Former U.S. Senate candidate Sharron Angle blithely suggested that people would need to explore ‘Second Amendment remedies’ if their political leaders didn’t change course; what happened Saturday is, by logical extension, what that means.”
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This meshes pretty well with my feeling on the subject. Regardless Jared’s motives may be, some of the more violent rhetoric out of the extreme right now appears to be in very bad taste at best, ethically bankrupt at worst.
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Death threats against political officials ARE on the rise. In March, after approval of the health care law (which Ms. Giffords supported) the windows of her office in Tucson were broken or shot out in an act of vandalism. Is this the political environment you want to live in? Are threats and acts of terrorism going to be considered valid political tools?

Just wanted to say that if Limbaugh is again blaming heavy metal lyrics as a catalyst for Jared the nut, then why can’t media hate-speak do the same? The constant flinging of “RELOAD”, “take them out!”, and “Exercise 2nd amendment rights!” all over TV and radio, is just as much to blame.

Then there is Sarah Palin and her crosshairs website. If she had just admitted the site was in bad taste and offered to remove it, I would have had a lot more respect for her. But to deny it was a bad idea, and then deny it was a rifle scope, just make her look bad, or maybe she is just having trouble washing the blood off her hands.

Joseph Stack was anti-government, and in trouble with the IRS because he refused to pay his taxes. He felt taxation was against the constitution. Same old stuff spewed by the Tea Party every day.

The shooter wasn’t a leftist. He was a registered Independent but he had not voted. He isn’t talking but on his computer is a lot of visits and postings on white supremist and anti-jewish websites, plus his rantings go on and on about government brainwashing, can’t trust the government or the currency. . .buy gold! Gee, sounds like a Glenn Beck radio show!

A lot of Republicans are athiest, and a lot of Democrats are Christian. Some are even Muslim, or. . .gasp. . .pagan! Hard to believe, but its true.