In the Arena

Overreading the Elections

The Weekly Standard’s reliably pedestrian Noemie Emerie has a fabulous piece –in the sense that, say, Pinocchio, is a fable–detailing the tsunami of bad news that will ensue for Democrats because of the American people’s rejection of health care legislation as manifested in the midterm elections of 2010. I agree, in a limited sense, that Democrats were hurt in 2010 because the public thought the President spent too much time on health care reform and not enough on the economy. But that’s a secondary reason: the real problem was the economy. Period.

Indeed, it seems the public view of the health care plan is somewhat different from what Republicans imagine–hat tip and happy new year to both Ezra Klein and Matt Yglesias. At first glance, it looks the way Noemie Emerie thinks it does: 43% favor the plan, 50% oppose it. But let’s look more closely at the opposition: 37% oppose it because it’s too liberal…but 13% oppose it because it’s not liberal enough. It could be argued, if one argued the way Emerie argues (that is, carelessly, from an armchair), that if the 2010 elections had been solely about the need for universal health care, the Democrats would have romped by a 56% to 37% majority.

Actually, I think the health care numbers would be significantly stronger but for the fabulous–again, in the Pinocchio sense–misinformation campaign run by the Republican Party, starting with the notion that it represents socialized medicine and continuing on with Palin’s Pinocchian “death panel” invention. As any of the 13% who oppose the bill because it’s not liberal enough can tell you, there isn’t even a smidgeon of socialism involved here. Not even a public option (a pink herring overplayed by both sides of the debate). And I suspect that, over time, as Americans learn the exact nature of the legislation, the popularity of ObamaRomneyCare will be as popular as it currently is in…Massachusetts. (Although, I hasten to add, the bill could be significantly improved by moving more people from Medicaid to health exchanges and, in states where an adequate market doesn’t exist, adding a public option.)

Oh, one other thing: Emerie cleverly calls the passage of health care a catastrophic success, a term she seems to think she has invented. Actually, no. Etymology is important here: “catastrophic success”  was a term of art invented by the Bush Jr. Administration to describe the quick overthrow of Saddam Hussein’s regime–too quick, allegedly, for the U.S. to respond with proper security and social services on the ground. Her definition stands as a pretty good description of that earlier debacle:

That’s what happens when you do something big, and it turns out quite badly…

I’d say the jury remains out–yes, even politically–on health care reform.

Related Topics: Uncategorized
  • Latest on Swampland

    The Phony War: Obama and Romney Are Debating Character, Not Policy

    More than five months from Election Day, the back-and-forth about Mitt Romney’s record at Bain already feels played out. Unfortunately, there’s good reason to expect the campaign continues in this vein indefinitely. Neither Barack Obama nor Mitt Romney are terribly interested in dwelling on policy platforms. Romney’s plan to slash spending and keep taxes low on the wealthy isn’t especially popular, at least not at any level of detail beyond a blithe promise to shrink the deficit. Meanwhile, Obama’s signature first-term achievements, like health care, the stimulus and Wall Street reform, are all unpopular or tricky to sell. (The Dodd-Frank bill is the most popular of these, but hyping it means offending wealthy donors.) So what we’re getting instead is a superficial duel about character–and, worse, one that’s based on the largely false premise that the better man can better “manage” the economy back to health.

    Obama Administration Blocks Global Health Fund To Fight Disease In Developing NationsHuffPost Politics

    Audacity of Dope: Tales of a Toking Teenage Obama

    We knew Barack Obama smoked weed in high school because he wrote about it in his books. What we didn’t know until Buzzfeed posted these choice nuggets (I’m so sorry) from David Maraniss’s new book on the President’s younger years, is the giggle-worthy details of his “Choom Gang” lifestyle, which are right out of a buddy stoner flick. Obama and his friends drove around the lush Hawaii countryside, hot-boxing their VW bus and re-upping with a long-haired pizza-tossing dealer named Ray, who Obama thanked in his yearbook “for all the good times.”

  • http://shortplaysaboutrealpeople.wordpress.com Michael Maiello

    My insurance rates go up next year. If that keeps happening as the plan phases in, then it’s a fail. But I’m on the “not left enough” side.

  • formerlyjames

    It’s even more complicated than Emerie presents on health care, that being, who votes? A big number is the Medicare crowd, and they felt threatened by universal care. With the remainder, the economy was important. The right wing propaganda campaign certainly played a major part, fueled by Palin and the shock jocks on the airwaves. Ultimately though, it all comes down to who did not vote. That is the prevailing difference.

  • nflfoghorn

    Can someone…ANYONE…challenge the right on defining the actual word “socialism”? Besides me??
    .
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

  • formerlyjames

    Those not threatened by health care, the economy, or the right wing, the disengaged, the complacent ones, are those who did not vote and to whom I refer.

  • gysgt213

    Michael. yes your rates are going to keep going up I’m afraid, because no real serious effort was made to roll them back and contain them.

  • shepherdwong

    …there isn’t even a smidgeon of socialism involved here. Not even a public option (a pink herring overplayed by both sides of the debate).
    .
    Really? I’d offer your colleague’s correction…

    The new insurance program intended to cover the most vulnerable Americans is not working very well. Under the Affordable Care Act, people with pre-existing conditions were supposed to immediately get new welcome coverage in “high-risk pools” run by states or the federal government. (These people are routinely turned away by private insurance companies or sold policies that exclude coverage for their pre-existing health problems.) Problems with the high-risk pools are making rollout pretty rough. Most people who would be eligible for these plans don’t know about them or are turned off by cost.

    …but you have one of your own:

    …the bill could be significantly improved by moving more people from Medicaid to health exchanges and, in states where an adequate market doesn’t exist, adding a public option.)

  • Joe Klein

    Interesting, Shep, that you didn’t point out the things that Kate wrote that ARE going right with the new plan like, for example, the increased participation of small business.

    And, of course, high risk pools are going to have higher rates–until the exchanges actually start in 2013 and include (a) the small businesses listed above (b) healthy younger people who don’t work for corporations that don’t provide health insurance and (c) healthy members of the working poor who are now being shuffled into Medicaid. And also (d) larger companies who want to join the exchanges, as proposed by Senator Ron Wyden (whom I hope is recovering nicely from his recent bout with cancer).

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    “Actually, I think the health care numbers would be significantly stronger but for the fabulous–again, in the Pinocchio sense–misinformation campaign run by the Republican Party, starting with the notion that it represents socialized medicine and continuing on with Palin’s Pinocchian ‘death panel’ invention.”

    Wouldn’t you also say this represents a failure on the media’s part to call b-s consistently? That misinformation can only be widely successful if the watchdog media does its job. That false equivalency and the failure to call a LAD (lying arse dog) by his/her rightful name…

    That said, I think it’s a sh!tty bill that will get no better until liberals have power (i.e. when snow monkeys emerge from my backside).

  • shepherdwong

    Interesting, Shep, that you didn’t point out the things that Kate wrote that ARE going right with the new plan like, for example, the increased participation of small business.
    .
    Sorry, Joe. I guess I’m just here for the spitballs. Obviously, I have no truck with the parts of the bill that are working well, just as I have no problem with your fetish for insurance exchanges. But the fact is, for moral, policy and political reasons, it was a mistake not to include the choice of a robust public plan alongside private insurance markets, especially with the inclusion of a personal mandate. You just, almost, admitted it.

  • sacredh

    “That said, I think it’s a sh!tty bill that will get no better until liberals have power (i.e. when snow monkeys emerge from my backside).”
    .
    I hope that you take pictures and provide a link to photobucket if that ever happens. SZ’s New Zealand photos were nice, but we’re talking internet fame here.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Considering who was in the room with the president when this bill was hashed out (the parasite class whose stocks boomed), this quote seems apt:

    “There are many forms and degrees of democracy but all include control of political and economic apparatus by the people, and not the reverse.”

    Bertram D. Wolfe

  • formerlyjames

    Speaking, as I did earlier, of those who aren’t threatened by things they should be, I can see their eyes glaze over and the complacency set in, with this esoteric, bs exchange.

  • stuartzechman

    Thanks so much for responding to commentary, Joe Klein, it is greatly appreciated.

  • Ike Jakson

    Don’t overwrite them then, Joe boy? Huh?

  • Ike Jakson

    Hey sacredh, you have a fine idea. Let’s have some pictures when it happens. I need a good laugh.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “I hope that you take pictures and provide a link to photobucket if that ever happens. SZ’s New Zealand photos were nice, but we’re talking internet fame here.”
    .
    I missed that.
    .
    It must have been my month offline.
    .
    I found photobucket independently (and didn’t go to New Zealand, so I have much less to post).

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Words the far right do no know the meaning of and misuse constantly:
    .
    Socialism
    .
    Elitism
    .
    Communism
    .
    Marxist
    .
    Fascist
    .
    Unconstitutional
    .
    Racist
    .
    Liberal
    .
    Progressive
    .
    Overall, most of the far rights posts are filled with random buzz words like the ones above among others which don’t often enough get called out.

  • sacredh

    I got a cellphone for Christmas with a camera. They probably all have them. I promised my wife that I’d carry it with me. God help us all. Who knows what I’m going to find that I think is worthy of taking a picture of. I’ll tell you what though, if a monkey ever flys out of my butt, everybody is going to see it. I hope it’s just a little monkey though. Wee little. Christ, I hope we don’t bond.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Thank god that monkey line glossed over the sh!t writing.
    .
    “That misinformation can only be widely successful if the watchdog media [fails to do] its job”

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Paging Stuart Zechman. If you’re not yet aware of it, Ian Welsh has a post up responding to your FDL riff.

  • apr2563

    Joe, you have to admit the traditional media followed every moment of tea party confrontations, from “death panels” and “socialist health care”.
    .
    That is what the public remembers. The over coverage of the tea party and hyperbole about its importance followed.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Apr,
    .
    Or as Ruby said in Cold Mountain:
    .
    “They call this war a cloud over the land. But they made the weather and then they stand in the rain and say ‘Sh!t, it’s raining!’”

  • liberalmeltdown

    I am all for health reform, and care also. Let’s turn this whole industry on it’s head and make it do what we want to.
    .
    You go first. Take that leap of faith and step into the brave new world where you tell doctors what that heart transplant is worth.
    .
    HEY come on down! We got hearts galore and we’re havin’ us a special! Bring in your trade in and we’ll fix er up! We’re wheelin’ and dealin’. Get a $10,000 rebate on Obama transplants until January 2012. After that you are on your own, because those mean Republicans are going to cut this program and kill people.
    .
    Won’t it be great when we have transplant incentives and television ads…

  • liberalmeltdown

    Yes, since the elections, historic as they were after two years of protests, let’s not place any weight on all that…In fact, here’s a rock over here, LOOK! SEE! Sparkles and glitter…Don’t look at that over there.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Meltdown,
    .
    Why do you hate America so much?
    .
    When Germans, Canadians, Swedes, Japanese, English, Irish… everybody in the developed world except for France has a higher portion of unionized labor, the goods and services they produce kick ass in quality. But, since you think Americans are scum, you believe that when we unionize, we tear down companies, lie around on the job, steal things… are nasty bastards.
    .
    When the rest of the world, starting with Germany in the 1890s, have had a national health system, they kick ass and have, despite a slightly lower per capitia income, longer lives than we do.
    .
    But you are sure that, since you believe that Americans are scum of the earth we will produce no good at all and ruin everybody’s lives.
    .
    Why do you hate Americans so much?
    .
    And, if Americans are such low lives, why don’t you go to Somalia, where the government doesn’t tax, the government doesn’t regulate and not only can you have as many unregistered guns as you want, you can have your own surface to air missile, too?

  • newfreedomblog

    “But, since you think Americans are scum, you believe that when we unionize, we tear down companies, lie around on the job, steal things… are nasty bastards.”

    .
    Since you are pointing out all of the great attributes of Union workers. Care to explain this sartor?
    .
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/23/chrysler-auto-workers-caught-camera-drinking-beer-smoking-pot-lunch-break/

  • 3xfire3

    Right Wing this. Right Wing that.
    Republican misinformation campaign. Bad Republicans. Good Liberal/Progressives.
    .
    WOW. You can sure tell this is a Left Wing Blog.
    Joe is the cheerleader. He puts down all Conservative journalists. Actually he is very jealous of many of them because they are so much more successful than he is.
    .
    Joe is a LW Partisan Hack as are most of the Liberal commenters here in the Swamp. The only rational posts are by the few Conservatives who post here.

  • 3xfire3

    Fly Over Country
    .
    Liberal/Progressives like to belittle the great unwashed, uneducated, ignorant masses that live in “Fly-Over Country”. Surly these uncivilized people are not the ones who should determine who governs our country.
    .
    The following is a “Letter to the Editor”, from a small Midwestern newspaper, by one of those ignorant, uneducated people in Fly Over Country.
    .
    Yes my L/P friends these are the people that you think do not measure up to your crowd. But then again it maybe your crowd that doesn’t measure up.
    .
    “Obama Is Not Up To The Job”
    .
    “Our world is witnessing the shrinking of an American president.
    .
    The stature built on promises of hope and change that would catapult all nations into a charged moment of united exhilaration extolled in Berlin by this self-proclaimed citizen of the world has fizzled in the light of reality. Like the Mighty Oz, the curtain has been parted to reveal a less-than imposing presence, just another politician who bedazzled the world with hype and outlandish promises.
    .
    Instead of a glowing star to follow, we were treated to a spectacular meteor that flashed brilliantly before evaporating amid the sheen of its own magnitude. It was a play with grand expectations that couldn’t be met by its performers. The sizzle far exceeded the steak.
    .
    Unfortunately, for Obama, election meant governing, a task for which he is ill prepared. His true political expertise lies in criticizing his rivals’ shortcomings and expounding Progressive ideas. Having never performed on the world stage, his candidacy was solely predicated on what he would do, not what he had done for no candidate had ever done so little. His promises were unthinkable, unattainable to the knowledgeable.
    .
    And, so we’re stuck with an inexperienced neophyte, having forgone vetting in favor of a glorious oration. The grandeur of adoring throngs gathered before Obama, unified in a chorus of “yes we can” is now a distant murmur as America ponders who the “we” included. It didn’t include me or the heart of America.”

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Dozens of autoworkers in Detroit were caught on camera drinking beer and smoking marijuana before heading to work at the Chrysler plant…”
    .

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/23/chrysler-auto-workers-caught-camera-drinking-beer-smoking-pot-lunch-break/#ixzz19VmCmCZc
    .
    So, you are saying that if the were non-union they would be so broke that they couldn’t afford beer and/or pot and that is why we should make sure that they don’t earn enough to support their families?
    .
    The United Auto Workers has 557,099 members.
    .
    http://detnews.com/article/20060413/AUTO01/604130375/UAW-loses-11–of-its-members
    .
    Five or so are caught by Faux News.
    .
    Well, if only 24 in half a million do these things then, obviously, the best way to get rid of alcohol and drug abuse in America is to put every single American in a union.
    .
    if you are saying something else, please present statistics.

    .

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Correction Liberal/Progressives like to belittle the… ignorant … that live [in the United States].
    .
    You are among them.
    .
    I was planning on belittling you, but, I decided I wanted to go buy coffee instead.

  • hippooath

    “Since you are pointing out all of the great attributes of Union workers. Care to explain this sartor?”
    .
    And union workers are the only one that drinks beer and smokes pot? Evil bstards.

  • 3xfire3

    Joe,
    .
    “the real problem was the economy. Period.”
    .
    How can you write such lies? You know better.
    .
    The Tea Party Movement didn’t come into existence simply because of the economy.
    .
    The Liberal policies of the Obama Administration and the Democrats in congress were the primary reason the Tea Party developed and that is a very major reason the Democrats lost so many seats in Congress.
    .
    You know this to be true. Stating it was the Economy period is a bold face lie.
    .
    You have proven once again that you are nothing but a Left Wing Hack. Add this to your continuous ranting against Conservative journalist and you have an Elitist that has nothing to be Elitist about.

  • shepherdwong

    The Liberal policies of the Obama Administration and the Democrats in congress were the primary reason the Tea Party developed and that is a very major reason the Democrats lost so many seats in Congress

    Preliminary CBS News exit polls show that these results were fueled primarily by a depressed turnout among Democratic base groups, independents leaning Republican and voter backlash against President Obama and his handling of the economy.

    But that’s what happens when your lies are actually the truth and your truths are all lies. You should stop projecting your indoctrinated insanity on the people beyond the world of right-wing epistemic closure. There is no “Tea Party,” just an ever-aggrieved, politically-treasonous Republican base, too dishonest and ashamed to call themselves Republicans, ginned-up, organized and funded by billionaire oligarchs who use your foolish, inculcated beliefs against you at every turn.
    .
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8300-503544_162-503544.html?keyword=exit+polls

  • perrywhite1

    “You should stop projecting your indoctrinated insanity on the people beyond the world of right-wing epistemic closure. There is no “Tea Party,” just an ever-aggrieved, politically-treasonous Republican base, too dishonest and ashamed to call themselves Republicans, ginned-up, organized and funded by billionaire oligarchs who use your foolish, inculcated beliefs against you at every turn.
    .
    Wow, I wish I’d said that!

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    AMEN! shouted an atheist from the crowd.

  • 3xfire3

    shepherdwong,
    .
    That’s the most foolish statement about the Tea Party I have heard. I’m trying to be kind and not call you insane but you make it very difficult.

  • perrywhite1

    You don’t need to insult him, Patrick. People outside the self-reinforcing right-wing noise machine see comments like that as prima facie stupid or crazy. We ignore them out of politeness — a concept right-wingers consider a weakness. There’s no point to engagement.

  • artraveler

    Then, if we disappoint you so much why don’t you go somewhere your brillance will be better appreciated or have they kicked you out?

  • shepherdwong

    I’m trying to be kind and not call you insane but you make it very difficult.
    .
    Go ahead, knock yourself out. Having a crazy person call you insane doesn’t usually mean very much, except when it’s because you’ve challenged their delusions.

  • liberalmeltdown

    “you believe that when we unionize, we tear down companies, lie around on the job, steal things… are nasty bastards.”
    .
    You’re a union member Pat? Is that local 13 Realtor’s Union? Or, are you just hitting the crack pipe too hard?
    .
    I don’t believe anything like that Pat, you must be projecting your own work ethic, since all you do all day long is blog BS on this site.
    .

  • shepherdwong

    We ignore them out of politeness — a concept right-wingers consider a weakness. There’s no point to engagement.
    .
    I disagree. Ask John Kerry if it becomes a functional weakness to ignore them. By all means, don’t argue with them, it just gives their dogma credibility relative to actual reality. But they and their ideas should be mocked and ridiculed without mercy. These lunatics and their lying, traitorous leaders are dragging the country down the corporatist rat hole because way too few people understand what’s happening, there being no well-functioning press to explain it to them. That’s why liberals need to be relentlessly “shrill” in the face of lying treason and indoctrinated insanity and why lying “conservatives” and enabling centrists don’t want them to be.

  • 3xfire3

    Shepherdwrong,
    .
    Man you are way out there.
    .
    Do you really believe that crazy stuff?
    .
    If you do you are not just a Liberal you are an Extreme Liberal certainly approaching Socialist or Marxist political beliefs.
    .
    I’m beginning to think all the Liberals on Swampland are extremist who call themselves liberals but in their hearts they are really closet Socialist or Marxist.
    .
    That would certainly explain why it is nearly impossible to have a real discussion with swampland Liberals.

  • liberalmeltdown

    A CBS news poll? CBS we put the bias in news. Give me a break.
    .
    According to the poll, 41% of likely voters now have a favorable opinion of the tea party disciples, compared with 35% for Democrats and 28% for Republicans.
    .
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/12/tea-party-more-popular-than-republicans-or-democrats.html

  • perrywhite1

    I’ll come to Shepherd’s defense despite my own philosophy of non-engagement, because he seems to be a good guy and I owe him that. I don’t disagree with his opinions in the slightest; I was simply debating with him about the tactics of dealing with trolls, who cannot be reasoned with. And then you chimed right in, 3xfire3, and make my point by showing why it’s “impossible to have a real discussion” — because you don’t want one. You just want to throw insults and try to shout down everyone who doesn’t march in lock-step with you.
    .
    And frankly, that’s a troll. A troll whose specifically un-American brand of propaganda has created a whole lot of people who:
    .
    * are dedicated to a vile, selfish ideology that hurts their fellow Americans deeply, including me and my entire extended family — two of whom are dead today because of lack of health care. (Yes, Virginia, there are death panels — and the insurance companies run them.)
    .
    * stick to the fiction that giving tax cuts to billionaires somehow, despite the concrete evidence of the last 10 years, creates jobs and not huge deficits that the middle class and their children and grand-children will have to pay.
    .
    * toss around words like “socialism” and “Marxism” without knowing what they mean, just because “isms” sound bad …
    .
    * … even though their own philosophy is the textbook definition of “Fascism,” wherein corporations run the government. You know, the government — “We the people” — which is the only possible counter-weight to the enormous power of corporations, but which you want to reduce to a size where you can strangle it in Grover Norquist’s bathtub.
    .
    And you do all this in the name of Jesus, whose philosophy you clearly do not share, since you never turn the other cheek and don’t love your neighbor. That’s what sissy liberals do, whose lack of Christianity — YOUR twisted version of Christianity — you constantly decry.
    .
    This unholy ideology is hurtful not just to liberals, but to you, too, if you make less than $250,000 a year, which you almost certainly do if you’re wasting time here instead of enjoying your winter house in Vail. Yet you and your kind constantly engage in class warfare against people in your own class, as you have for 30 years, and when we raise a feeble hand in protest, you shout “class warfare” like we invented it.
    .
    But having said all that, you know, I am a sissy liberal and I don’t like being a jerk, even to jerks who started the fight. So I’ll wish you a time-honored salutation for this holiday season, one whose inclusiveness is as American and egalitarian and democratic as can be — but one that you and your fellows have turned into yet another pointless, rhetorical way to divide the country you profess to love, and yet seem to hate everything about it since the 19th century. Here’s that greeting, big shot, and I hope your little head explodes at the sound of it:
    .
    “Season’s greetings.”

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “According to the poll, 41% of likely voters now have a favorable opinion of the tea party disciples, compared with 35% for Democrats and 28% for Republicans.”
    .
    Well only 28% of Republicans approve of the Tea Party while 35% of Democrats approve…
    .
    Do the math.
    .
    72% of Republicans hate that the Tea Party hijacked their party while 35% of Democrats believe that this hijacking of the Republican Party is great for helping Democrats win.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Psychiatric Meltdown,
    .
    You belong to the party which prides itself on crushing unions.
    .
    If I had a dollar for every union bashing remark from the far right, I would be able to quit my job.
    .
    Obviously this is not and could not be a union job.
    .
    If you ever had any experience in business, you would know that from the week before Christmas until at least the first business day after New Years for business to business work is dead.
    .
    So, I am on an unpaid vacation. (All commission jobs all vacations are unpaid).
    .
    We were, also, snowed in for the first time in five years.
    .
    Why are you online all day, Meltdown?

  • shepherdwong

    I’m beginning to think all the Liberals on Swampland are extremist who call themselves liberals but in their hearts they are really closet Socialist or Marxist.
    .
    That would certainly explain why it is nearly impossible to have a real discussion with swampland Liberals.

    .
    Well you nailed that one, pal. It is exactly your crazy, indoctrinated beliefs about liberals and Democrats – and just about everything related to politics and government policy – that makes it nearly impossible to have a real discussion with any Liberals. Just make sure you understand that it’s the people who feed you that lying slander on a daily basis who are to blame and that they have no concern at all for the fact that they are seriously corrupting your rational mind to the degree that you are completely unable to engage in such a discussion, at the very least.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Perry,
    .
    I am stating the obvious when I say that I take on Shep’s philosophy but take it further.
    .
    There was a severe – far worse than 3X – cyberbully who got so frustrated with me that he stopped posting after about a month.
    .
    Rusty finds me so difficult that he often ignores me – which is wonderful.
    .
    The only concern I have is when a legitimate conservative comes here I would not want them to think that I am not open to honest debate because I, absolutely, am open to honest debate.
    .
    Like, basically, everybody moderate or liberal here, I am critical of Democrats either being too far to the right or, sometimes, just being ineffective (like the watered down stimulus package – which cost our country and, therefore, in the elections cost Democrats – very dearly relative to a New Deal style stimulus package).
    .
    But, if I can give 3X a shove out the proverbial door, I’d love to be the bouncer to do so.

  • russpoter

    My rates going up 10%.

    Klein the Journolist and Clinton-dupe is as incompetent as OWEbama.

    REPEAL

    DEFEAT OWE-BAMA 11/6/2012

blog comments powered by Disqus