Census Day

Jay Newton-Small:
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Looking at the winning states, I see Texas, Arizona, Nevada, Florida…
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If these are gains in mostly Hispanic districts, does that necessarily mean good news for the GOP?

Hispanic gains should help Dems but a lot will depend on how these new districts are apportioned and, unfortunately for Dems, they lost huge in state legislature elections last November.

Thanks so much for responding to commentary, Jay Newton-Small, it is greatly appreciated.
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Did you see Weigel’s retweet of Ben Smith’s Larry Littlefield quote?

This seems right: “It seems that most of the growth is in Blue portions of Red states.”

That might mean Delay-style gerrymandering would be necessary to carve out GOP gains.

Yeah, Hispanic gains in Texas is why Texas is pink and not Dark Red, like the deep South. South Texas is blue. Republicans win Texas by 10 points not 35 or larger. Those population gains vote for democrats 60 to 40 ratio. GW knew how important republicans winning the Hispanic vote was, however, this current lot seem to try and alienate Hispanics (pun intended) with every breath they can gasp.

Good luck trying to spin it is
“good news” for republicans.
Hispanics will vote for democrats the same way blacks do.
The republican party is the party for scared uneducated white people. That is their strong hold. The Mexicans are coming to get them, one baby at a time. lol

Did you see Weigel’s retweet of Ben Smith’s Larry Littlefield quote?
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Pfft. Whatever. Everyone already knew about that by like 11:30.
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(Kidding, just never thought I’d see something too meta/nerdy even for me. I’m going outside. Thanks, though, for raising the point, it is important).

Margins aside this makes Texas seem pretty Red.
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http://www.thegreenpapers.com/G10/TX

Well I have been down here for over 35 years waiting for TX to swing. It hasn’t happened. I thought that relocation of people from the north would help but……….?
TX is a huge State and the Repubs know how to reapportion to their advantage. With the last election I’ll never see TX blue.

The population shift shows people fleeing the high tax liberal states for low tax, job producing states. I am sure that liberals will deny the facts, but that is what is happening.
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You can’t deny the fact that Texas has lured 160 California companies this year alone. Californians hates business, like the good liberals they are, so the businesses leave and go to Texas. A place where they give incentives for business.

I always thought that it was that the republicans were winning the evolutionary race over the democrats.
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Silly me…

U didn’t get the textbook memo, fitty. Earth’s only 6000 years old!

Take a look for yourself:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_USA_highlighting_states_with_no_income_tax_on_wages.svg
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Texas, the biggest winner, Arizona and Florida match what you have to say, but, none of the other gainers or losers do.
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Contrary to right wing belief, if people move, they move to where their post tax income is the highest. So, in places like Alaska where they can’t earn crap, nobody wants to earn $0 for the happiness of not paying tax on it. They’ll stay in a taxing state and earn money.

“…Californians hates business [sic], like the good liberals they are, so the businesses leave and go to Texas. A place where they give incentives for business”
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Are you saying states giving businesses giveaways is a good thing and “librul” states don’t get it??

foghorn:
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Oooooh nnnnnooooooeeeesss! I forgot all about God’s* plan…
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*according to Pat Robertson…

Of course, California is a terrible place for business:

http://www.google.com/contact/
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Our headquarters are located in the heart of Silicon Valley.
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Google Inc.
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1600 Amphitheatre Parkway
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Mountain View, CA 94043
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Phone: +1 650-253-0000
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Fax: +1 650-253-0001

All that hatred for business is just awful for those people.

And they’ll go to jail to fight for that right. Right, Mr. DeLay?

It usually has to do with the cost of living, housing, wages etc, These things are controlled by the available land and demand, not by the taxes.

“Michigan 10.0: Do state tax incentives create real jobs, or just ribbon-cutting ceremonies?

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Richard Short was just the start of it.

In March, the Flint businessman appeared with a beaming Gov. Jennifer Granholm at a Lansing news conference, where she announced Short had been awarded $9.1 million in business tax credits to create more than 700 jobs in economically hard-hit Flint.

Hours later, Short was arrested on a parole violation. When it was discovered Short was a convicted embezzler, the state quickly revoked his tax-credit award.
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The Short incident, election-year politics and several critical research studies are combining to force the most serious debate about state tax incentives in years.

House and Senate committees are reviewing the programs. And Republican gubernatorial candidates seeking to replace Granholm, a Democrat, are vowing a major overhaul of incentives
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Studies done by the Mackinac Center and others have found only about 30 percent of jobs promised in MEGA deals have been created.”
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BTW: It is, unfortunately, not only Republicans who get caught up in this game. Jennifer Granholm is a Democrat.
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The thing missing from this model: small businesses started by local people employ a dramatic majority of people while huge companies are a small part of the nation’s economy. Great colleges among other things create a local population who start businesses.

Boeing is hiring here, too, stuart, big time…
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http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/11/19/1430732/boeing-hiring-machinists.html
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They plan on ramping up bigtime — they have 8,000* total planes on backorder. They want to go from the current 32/month for 737′s at Renton alone to 48 in a couple years. They 747 has 850 planes on backorder. 737 is 3250.
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*includes the 787 dreamliner

All,
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Exactly.
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Taxes exist as a very low spot on a long list of things people consider.

People should note that we have a 9%+ sales tax and fairly high business taxation structure, too…

“..9%+ sales tax ..”
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NYC and NY state sales taxes combined are only 8.6.
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I guess conservatives believe that millions of Washington State residents must be flying to NYC to buy jeans and T shirts since the TAXES aren’t quite as high.
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Of course nobody cares about the price of anything, so long as it is tax, free or taxed less, right?

“They’ll stay in a taxing state and earn money”
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They’ll stay in a taxing state and take entitlements.

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Fixed it for you

OT, I’ve always pronounced that MackiNACK, not MackiNAW

Those evil economic development commissions! Giving away taxpayer $ without even blinking…then getting taxpayers kicked in the teeth.
Several examples in North FL alone.

Yeah Google is still here. I hope that they can employ the thousands of construction workers out of work and the truck drivers and shipping company employees that will soon be out of work once Governor Moonbeam institutes his job killing plan laid out in AB32. Not to mention cement and concrete workers and anybody that works for an industry that produces so much as a puff of smoke other than from Marijuana. Here’s a few companies that left and why:
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The list includes the following, among others:
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Abraxis Health (Los Angeles), Apple Computer, Assurant Inc. (Orange County), Automobile Club of Southern California, Bazz Houston Co. (Garden Grove), Beckman Coulter (Brea), BPI Labs (Sacramento), CalPortland Cement (Riverside County), Checks To-Go, Creators Syndicate (L.A.), DaVita Inc. (L.A.), Digital Domain (Venice), Ditech (Costa Mesa), DuPont Fabros Technology (Santa Clara), eBay (San Jose), Edwards Lifesciences (Irvine), Facebook (Palo Alto), FallLine Corporation (Huntington Beach), Fidelity National Financial (Santa Barbara), First American Corp.(Santa Ana), Fluor Corp. (Aliso Viejo), Hilton Hotels Corp. (Beverly Hills), Intel Corporation (Santa Clara), Intuit (Mountain View), J.C. Penny (Sacramento), Knight Protective Industries, Kulicke & Soffa Industries, Inc. (Irvine), Lennox Hearth Products Inc. (Orange), MiaSolA (Silicon Valley), Patmont Motor Werks, Inc., Pixel Magic (Toluca Lake), Premier Inc. (San Diego), Pro Cal of South Gate, Red Truck Fire & Safety Company (Fresno), Simple Tech (Santa Ana), Solar World (Camarillo), Special Devices Inc. (Moorpark), StarKist, Stasis Engineering (Sonoma County), Tapmatic (Orange County), Telmar Network Technology Inc. (Irvine), Terremark (Santa Clara), Terumo Cardiovascular Systems (Orange County), Toyota (Fremont), True Games Interactive (Irvine), Twentieth Century Props of L.A., U.S. Airways (Orange County), US Press (L.A.), USAA Insurance (Sacramento), Yahoo.

Specific reasons given for relocating vary but, in general, they all demonstrate dissatisfaction with the business climate in California:

* Bazz Huston Co. “has slowly been building a workforce of about 35 people in Tijuana. The company said it expects to move more jobs to Mexico, citing cost and regulatory difficulties in California.
* BPI Labs relocated to Evanston, Wyoming, a move the company’s owner called “very successful,” saying, “It felt good and I’ve never looked back.”
* Workers comp rates in Utah help make Checks To-Go financially healthier.
* Creators Syndicate said Los Angeles operates like a “banana republic.”
* FallLine Corporation said they were being “hammered” with multiple government regulator fees in California.
* Fidelity National Bank referred to California’s “oppressive” business environment.
* Intuit of Mountain View created a customer support office with 110 people outside of California because of lower operating costs.
* Knight Protective Industries moved to Oregon “where 4-day work weeks were permitted by the state” and wanted by their employees.
* Lennox Hearth Products Inc., moved to Tennessee “to reduce costs and increase operating inefficiencies.”
* Patmont Motor Werks Inc. (GoPed manufacturer) left California after being hit by California regulators for hundreds of thousands of dollars in small fines, even though his company has a stellar record.
* Red Truck Fire & Safety Company left California “because of California’s myriad fees and regulations” that amounted to “death by a thousand cuts.”
* Solar World moved to Oregon after the state offered property tax abatement and business energy tax credits.
* Stasis Engineering moved to West Virginia where there is “a friendlier business climate.”
* Tapmatic’s owners were “fed up with the onerous business environment.”
* Twentieth Century Props of LA. went out of business as film-making moved to lower-cost states.
* US Press shifted work to Portland, “where union rules were almost rational.”
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“The list will undoubtedly grow as Sacramento considers more measures that will increase corporate taxes, increase workers’ comp costs, increase regulatory reporting requirements (along with higher fines for minor infractions), increase gasoline and diesel-fuel taxes, increase water rates, increase electric-power rates, and increase assorted fees that will cause services to become more expensive.”

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Keep in mind that the list from which the foregoing was taken named over 100 companies that have taken flight from California. It reads like a Who’s Who of corporate America in California, and it appears that there is no end in sight to the exodus of firms from the “Golden State” to escape the oppressive regulatory and tax climate that harasses California businesses.

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This trend is one of the major reasons for the state’s high rate of unemployment, which was 12.5% in January, with the Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario metro area at 15%.

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Furthermore, don’t forget, these moves also mean the loss of many of the high earning individuals who pay most of the state’s income taxes.

All this is somehow the fault of a man who isn’t even in office yet?!? What about the actor who you shoehorned in? Blameless?

“What city has the most billionaires living in its city limits?
New York City has the most billionaires, with Mayor Mike Bloomberg topping the list. ”
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http://www.chacha.com/question/what-city-has-the-most-billionaires-living-in-its-city-limits
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Correction, people stay in the high tax states and pay federal income taxes to support the Red States and, of course, any Freak In PA.
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I’d like it if every federal dollar came with a note on the project. In rural PA signs could read “Repaving of I-80 brought to you by those Marxist socialists fascist in NYC” or, “Pothole fixed by those lefty loonies of San Francisco” or the food Stamps Freak in pa gets coming with a note saying, “With Special thanks to those corrupt lefty thugs of Chicago who’s taxes make this possible.”
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If you live on a government check, go to the cheapo land in the Red States to stretch out the best bang for your buck.

Yet California hasn’t lost even one congressional seat.
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Don’t tell me Meltdown, the people stay in California for the chance to hang out with you, right?

Arnold is a moron. A democrat with an R at the end of his name. He was elected to cut taxes, and caved to the liberal legislature and state employee’s unions.
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Arnold has morphed into a Global warming fanatic, like all the other liberals in California. It’s the only thing he believes in.
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Jerry Brown has long been an anti-growth, anti-business nutjob. As attorney general, he sued counties to prevent them from producing pollution; stop construction. That’s Govenor Moonbeam.
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1818399/posts
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No, it’s not just Governor Moonbeam’s fault. It’s the fault of the insane state legislature and the morons that continue to re-elect them. When Californians are asked, the legislature receives an approval rating under 10%, yet the liberal automatons go to the polls and dutifully punch that D next to the name year after year after year.
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http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/24/local/la-me-poll25-2010mar25

First time in 80 years that the State hasn’t added Congressional seats after a census.

“I’d like it if every federal dollar came with a note on the project. In rural PA signs could read “Repaving of I-80 brought to you by those Marxist socialists fascist in NYC” or, “Pothole fixed by those lefty loonies of San Francisco” or the food Stamps Freak in pa gets coming with a note saying, “With Special thanks to those corrupt lefty thugs of Chicago who’s taxes make this possible.”
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No the paving, pothole is done by overpriced unions which cost the federal, state and local governments 30% more than they would pay without the good old “prevailing wage crap”. The prevailing wage is what someone will work for and not mandated by the government. So all of those poor unemployed you keep insisting you care about remain unemployed why billions are wasted transferring wealth to political allies. BTW wasn’t the purpose of the gasoline tax for roads? Another budget busted!
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“If you live on a government check, go to the cheapo land in the Red States to stretch out the best bang for your buck.”
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Nope, I am one of those greedy “wealthy” you keep attacking while you desperately try to become one. Typical liberal hypocrite.

Let’s not forget all those wonderful actors and producers who support everyone else paying higher wages but run to cheaper locals to shoot movies for the almighty profit. Like that overstuffed gasbag Michael Moore who criticizes corporate execs. but rides in a limo and shoots his pathetic work outside the US to save money.

But what is another liberal hypocrite among the millions of other liberal hypocrites.

Why isn’t it socialism when corporations get “free” government money?

Republicans, we haven’t had a “free market” in years, It is just wage earners money being re-distributed to the rich and corporations.

In a “true” free market, all states would quit all the tax hand-outs and let the market for the quality of people and the quality of life prevail.

But that isn’t the Republican mantra!

Liberal Hypocrites < Conservative Hypocrites

They also tip less, apparently

NY has lost a seat in every census since 1950. People leave because they can to avoid high costs and high taxes.
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Oregon raised its income tax on the top 2% and collected 1/3 less revenue than projected. Seems that “shared sacrifice” will fall on those the left keeps insisting it wants to help.
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This is a replay of Maryland in 2008 with its “millionaires tax”. Roughly 1/3 of the millionaires vanished.

Somebody give liberals a quarter so they can call and get a clue

“Nope, I am one of those greedy “wealthy” you keep attacking…”
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Freak, if you stopped using meth you’d realize that there is nothing anti-wealthy here in Swampland.
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BTW: Nine dollars in the piggy bank you have upstairs in your bedroom does not make you wealthy.

“NY has lost a seat in every census since 1950. People leave because they can to avoid high costs and high RENTS.”
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Rents in NYC are the second highest in the US after San Francisco.
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OTOH: NYC wages are the highest in the country. That’s why NY State losses are small.
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“New York will lose two congressional seats due to the continuing shift of population away from the Northeast and Midwest to the South and West, federal officials declared Tuesday.

While New York’s population grew 2.1% to 19.4 million from 18.9 million in 2000, other states like Texas and Arizona grew at a much more dramatic pace, the official 2010 census showed.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/12/21/2010-12-21_census_headcount_means_two_fewer_house_seats_for_new_york_as_sun_belt_population.html#ixzz18mfbVL8o
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Strangely enough, where the taxes are highest and the rents are, also, the highest, in New York City, the population continues to grow.
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STATEMENT BY MAYOR BLOOMBERG ON NEW YORK CITY’S RISING POPULATION

“Today’s update of census data indicates that – despite the continued national economic downturn that’s causing many cities around the country to shrink – New York City’s population continues to grow to record highs. Since 2000, the City’s population has grown by more than 383,000 people and is close to 8.4 million people, with each borough growing by at least 3.5 percent. That’s great news for our City’s economy and a tribute to everyone who is working to improve our city’s quality of life and help New Yorkers live longer. The next official population count for New York City will come from the 2010 census effort currently underway, and we’re urging all New Yorkers to stand up and be counted.”
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http://activerain.com/blogsview/1562397/new-york-city-s-rising-population-2010-census-
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Suburban and rural (purple and red parts) of New York State is where the relative population declines are coming from.

Not surprisingly, meltdown man, your list is BS. I just checked three companies on your list and, yes, Facebook and Intuit are still in Palo Alto and Intel is still in Mountain View. And if “20th Century Properties of Los Angeles” moves out of california, I shall be quite surprised. So your facts are, as ususal, worng.

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Moreover, if people move out of California, is that a bad thing? At 35 million, the state is well over its “carrying capacity” from an environmental standpoint. There is, quite simply, not nearly enough water to support the population they currently have; which is why they have to drain lakes and rivers thorughout the state in order to meet the demand. To the extent that businesses are having problems coming up against the very real limits of what the very beautiful yet also fragile California environment can support, that is not necessarily a bad thing. The problem is not leftist bureaucrats so much as it is Mother Nature.

“…to shoot movies for the almighty profit….”
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Did you notice, Freak, that no liberal here writes like that?
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Liberals and centrists here don’t say that profits are bad. Profits keep paychecks rolling out.
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Tax cuts loopholes give free money back to businesses who don’t do anything additional in terms of hiring nor in providing better service to their consumers.
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So, tax breaks and wasteful contracts for military goods never going to be used are not liked here, but, have you seen anybody write against Bloomberg? The founders of Google? The founder of Face Book?
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No.
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You just rage when a liberal makes a profit and belies your belief that the right knows anything about economics.

Patrick,
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It’s my theory that freeinpa hasn’t gotten a spanking yet. That’s how he gets attention. He’s just not going to quit until his nether side gets firmly and deliciously paddled.
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Remember:
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He’s a teabagger…

“First time in 80 years that the State hasn’t added Congressional seats after a census.”
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Oh, I see.
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If California is not in the process of absorbing the entire population of the United States, then it must be the Democrats fault.
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If the government does not cut taxes down from 90% to 0% and, eventually, to negative numbers giving checks to businesses and the wealthy, it must be a left wing conspiracy.
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Your logic is weak.
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California will only grow so big.
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Some people love Christmas in New York, New England snow and so many other things that this country has to offer that California will only grow to a certain size and stop.
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Two close relatives of mine briefly in California and didn’t like it.
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One, while in grad school, was in the SF area and moved out.
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The other spent one year in San Diego and didn’t like it at all.

“It’s my theory that freeinpa hasn’t gotten a spanking yet. That’s how he gets attention. He’s just not going to quit until his nether side gets firmly and deliciously paddled.
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Remember:
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He’s a teabagger.”
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The Teabagger troll Motto “Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me.”
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Yeah, that’s probably it.

Forgot about their mantra.
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I think freeinpa is like a cat:
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He licks his own cajones and we get the hairballs…

Art,
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That is pure evidence that, if the Tea Party is nothing more than a successful PR campaign by the Koch brothers.
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If they hated seeing tax dollars wasted, then they would be protesting these big corporate giveaways.
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But, strangely, they remain totally silent as our tax dollars get sent from middle income and working people to the wealthiest businesses for delivering almost nothing.

New York’s loss of population is all upstate, particularly Buffalo but also Rochester, Syracuse and the smaller towns in between. To a great extent, it is simply the estern end of the devastated industrial landscape that extends from Wisconsin to Schenectedy. Meanwhile, across the lakes, sits a place called Canada, enjoying realtive proseprity and even 10% poplation growth. Could it be that Canadian firms, freed from the burden of providing health care to their workers, have a competitive advantage that makes the crucial difference?

It sounds like these people are going from the red spots in New York State to the blue spots (cities) in Red states.
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Or, maybe, like one of my relatives who had her wedding in Upstate New York (marrying a man from Canada she’s been with for years) is moving to Canada.

5.7 free, you would have to give liberals $.50 because the state would tax half.
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5.12, oh no, we missed the chance to have your relatives on the welfare rolls in CA. How sad.

I get your point, but the Auto Club of SoCal should not be on that list. We were incorrectly included on a business relocation website. We never moved jobs out of state. Our HQ and Administrative Offices remain in Southern California. Marie Montgomery Nordhues, Auto Club of Southern California

Patrick:
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I know you’ve noticed, but these people have to gain succour from things other than facts.
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They depend on generalizations and mischaracterizations (i.e. we and our families are all collectively on welfare even though we both work and our families probably work as much – or more – than they do).
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They have to manufacture the targets of their ire…

I GOTS IT!
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Red (GOP) + Blue (DEM) = Purple (bruise)
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Wow, that was simple. Now I understand politics…

thud…

Heavens. 30+ comments in reply to the brain fart at 3.0.
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Is it Thursday yet?

nfl: I’m glad you’re aware that there’s a difference in pronunciation in the lower 47.
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Just a reminder. Mackinac does *not* rhyme with Cadillac…

If I start calling certain GM cars ChevroLET’S then we got problems
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Down here in FL we have a town outsida Tampa named Lutz [pronounced "loots" not "luts"]. Where do we come up with these?

Blame it on that darn Darwin.
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BTW LOL on your Macknac ref – I responded in kind.

“…[T]he Auto Club of SoCal should not be on that list. We were incorrectly included on a business relocation website. We never moved jobs out of state. Our HQ and Administrative Offices remain in Southern California”
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And, like Flox, you will never see the words
“we regret the error”
come from a neocon’s mouth.

As another poster pointed out, your list is full of crap. I don’t know where you clipped this B.S. from, but you might consider finding a different information source — one that doesn’t lie to you. I drive by several of the businesses in your list every day on my way to work. I can assure you that they are still successfully conducting their business from California.
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The propaganda source that prepared you list for you is playing you for a chump.

K-Bang FTW.
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A question to the two partisan hit squads. If, as is patently obvious, you think the opposing team is ignorant, why in the world do you choose to engage one another? There are many ways to grow an intellect, but that is hardly at the top of the list.

“Purple (bruise)”
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LOL

Just a reminder. Mackinac does *not* rhyme with Cadillac…
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Heh. Try ‘Michilimackinac’ or ‘Tahquamenon’ or ‘Schoenherr’. Or even ‘Lake Orion’.
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You can always tell when the newscaster isn’t from around here when they mispronounce that last one.

grape:
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say ‘Puyallup’.

“Freak, if you stopped using meth you’d realize that there is nothing anti-wealthy here in Swampland”
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That sentence confirms you have no ability to read English or (my vote) you are a complete idiot. You see by just saying something over and over is not fact.

NFL, Delay did not get in trouble for the gerrymandering of 2003 (assuming that’s what you meant). The Supreme Court has never ruled that political-based gerrymandering is illegal, only that doing it based off race/ethnicity is.

And guys, don’t act like Democrats don’t gerrymander when they get the chance. Come on. A brief look at modern Texas political history will show you that Democrats, back when they had uniform control over the state, did the same thing. Once the Republicans took power in 2003, they had quite a time doing the same thing.

“Liberals and centrists here don’t say that profits are bad. Profits keep paychecks rolling out”
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really? More confirmation of your inability to read. Greedy HC insurance companies, Greedy Wall Street bankers, evil oil companies. Who talks like that – conservatives?
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Liberals only like profits to the point that they can be taxed. If a HC comapny makes $1.01 and is taxed $1.00 liberals stand and cheer that penny. But if they make $1.00 and is taxed $0.18% they are greedy. That’s how liberals love profits. And paychecks just aqs long as they are for unionized workers

“Delay-style gerrymandering”
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Is that opposed to the benevolent, fair gerrymandering that the Democrats in Texas did throughout Texas history until…oh…seven years ago?

“It’s my theory that freeinpa hasn’t gotten a spanking yet. That’s how he gets attention. He’s just not going to quit until his nether side gets firmly and deliciously paddled.”
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You need to seek professional help and medication to deal with your mother or repressed sexual issues. You continually post about spanking so you must long for the day mom spanked you or by spanking you refer to why your right hand has carpel tunnel and failing eyesight

Okay Freak,
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Please send a quote from anybody here against: the founders of Google, The founder of Facebook, the founders of Time Magazine, Investors in IBM, Investors in Ford…. or, for that matter even one thing about people making a profit from anything other than an inflated government contract but not including when some billionaires like Koch use their money to get free profits through tax breaks.
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Please!
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Either that or just admit that nobody here opposes honest profits from good products and services when providing reasonable wages.
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BTW: Walmart doesn’t count. Not because they make profits, but, because they use every stunt in the book to suppress wages as well as many illegal union busting techniques.
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If you can’t find one, STFU.

Okay Freak,
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Please send a quote from anybody here against: the founders of Google, The founder of Facebook, the founders of Time Magazine, Investors in IBM, Investors in Ford…. or, for that matter even one thing about people making a profit from anything other than an inflated government contract but not including when some billionaires like Koch use their money to get free profits through tax breaks.
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Please!
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Either that or just admit that nobody here opposes honest profits from good products and services when providing reasonable wages.
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BTW: Walmart doesn’t count. Not because they make profits, but, because they use every stunt in the book to suppress wages as well as many illegal union busting techniques.
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If you can’t find one, STFU.
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Oh, I know!
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Ask Freak in Pa for a single example of when anybody on the left saying that profits from producing quality goods while providing reasonable wages and I know what your response will be:
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“You’re wearing a tin foil hat”.
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(I never got what that was supposed to mean. It must be something they do on The Glenn Beck show.)

say ‘Puyallup’.
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pew-AL-up? I imagine that the ‘y’ throws things off for people.

OK well, that makes all the difference then. Only 99 companies on that list. I sure hope that the Autoclub of S California is going to hire millions of out of work Californians. Just make sure that your employees don’t exhale; it’s carbon dioxide you know, and it’s deadly to the liberal brain.
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http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/blog/2010/12/thank-you-california.html
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Some speculate taxes are pushing businesses from California, and that certainly could be drawing them to Texas, where we enjoy one of the most business-friendly tax environments in the nation. Sen. Bob Dutton of California in January warned this trend would continue: “If we don’t change our ways, California will continue to watch jobs flee to business friendly states like Texas while our recovery lags the rest of the nation.”
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http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/publius-forum/2010/08/ebay-adobe-ea-games-many-others-leaving-california-for-utah-over-confiscatory-tax-rate.html
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Cost of Living Sucks; Everyone Leaving California
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http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/business/Cost-of-Living-Sucks-Everyone-Leaving-California.html
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Even the green companies are leaving:
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http://jan.ocregister.com/2010/10/13/14-companies-added-to-leaving-california-list/47020/

“5.12, oh no, we missed the chance to have your relatives on the welfare rolls in CA. How sad.”
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That would be a corporate attorney who is working for one of the largest law firms in the Northeast and a PhD psychologist who lived in SF.
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Yeah, you should see the psychologist… professionally.

5.0, eBay is still in San Jose. Nice try.

So, Meltdown, you hate the taxes, you hate the cost of living, you hate the state government, you hate your liberal neighbors…
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So what kind of a moron are you that you live in a place that makes you so damn misserable?
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Taxes and cost of living in NYC, including Queens, is high, but, I love it here so much that it worth the money.
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That’s why I am here.
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If you want to move, I can find a moving company and, since I am in the business, even a realtor named Kim who has a license to practice in CA to help you move. Better yet, you can move out of the US to a place where the taxes are incredibly low and the government doesn’t put any restrictions on guns: Somalia.
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Somalia = The Wingnut Paradise (except for the fact that they are black people).

It’s because they are so predictable. Like I predicted.

You predicted that many on the list of companies you said were leaving California weren’t leaving California?
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You predicted that being shown an actual map would tell you that your theory about people moving away from taxes rather than moving towards a better standard of living where taxes are a very small factor?
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You predicted that your whining about your state would make you look like a moron since you are free to move whenever you want?
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You predicted that we are all hard working, educated people who mostly out earn you in addition to know far more than you?
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So, you just like being an a-hole?

Freak in pa, the man without honor’s response to when anybody here said profits were anything but wonderful so long as they were from a business that was not fleecing the government, was providing a high quality product and was paying it’s worker’s well.
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With year after year of archives, Freak’s response is:
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eBay Picks Utah for $334 Million Data Center
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http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2008/12/16/ebay-picks-utah-for-334-million-data-center/
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They could have built this in California, but Utah gave them tax incentives.

“The state Office of Economic Development offered eBay $27.3 million in tax incentives over 10 years to build the facility in Utah, according to the Salt Lake Tribune…
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The data center is expected to create about 50 jobs with wages averaging $49,200 a year, about 50 percent above the Salt Lake County annual median wage.”
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You’ve proven it for a fact: The Utah State Government is run by idiots.
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$49,200 X 50 = $2,496,000.
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For ten years.
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$2,496,000 X 10 = $24.96 Million.
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State incentive $27.3 Million.
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Job gains – total salaries = gain for Utah.
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$24.96 M – $27.3 M = Negative $2.34 Million.
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So, if the state took $27.3 Million dollars and threw it out of a helicopter over Salt Lake City, the state would be, over a ten year period, $2.34 Million richer.
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Corporate Welfare.

Welcome to the http://extconnect.com !
Welcome to extConnect ! We are looking forward to see that you can benefit from this world for your potential business or your keeping contact with your family and friends.Let you discover social network’s evolution and make your dream flying!

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Freeper does this make you feel good all over?
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Money, money, money!

Actually NY getting hollowed out fits a predictable and much predicted pattern of high taxes, unionism and high regulation impacting the lower wage industrial sector 1st and then the service sector. It’s a slow but steady process that has also taken hold in CA where high regulation, high energy costs & high taxes have removed the shine from the golden state. For the 1st time since it became a state it didn’t add a legislative seat from the census and was lucky not to lose one. Texas, which wisely remains apart from the national grid, has lower energy costs, regulation and taxes and gained 4 legislative seats. This pattern will remain intact for the next decade and we’ll see another 6 to10 seat pickup for the GOP.

Jay:
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In case you’re still monitoring this thread, the population figure you quote: “308,745,538 million” is off by a factor of 10^6. You don’t need the word “million”. thxkbai

nfl:
Lutz is “loots”? Oh, boy.
Then again, the city of “Lima” is pronounced differently in Peru and Ohio.
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grape:
Good ones!
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53: Puyallup?
Is that what a toddler does in his diaper?
“Billy, you done pu-y’all-up your pants agin.”
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One more quiz (inspired by grape):
Does Livernois (Avenue) rhyme with Illinois?
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Poor Patrick,
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Your lack of Real World experience prevents you from seeing the forest. You can only comprehend a few trees. California is losing many businesses to other states that are much more business friendly. That’s a Real World fact. You can dwell on a few trees in your debate with freeinpa, but you lose the debate because you can’t see the forest.
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Some day when you are able to get outside of your bubble maybe you will have the wisdom to understand reality. Maybe.
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Apr is just beyond all hope.

Contrary to right wing belief, if people move, they move to where their post tax income is the highest.

***********************************************

That’s not contrary to RW belief. That IS RW belief. That’s one reason why so many retirees migrate south. The cost of living and thus salaries vary all over the country but they’re not static. Tax policy is one of many items that drove behavior. While Philly is still a top 10 city people have been flocking to the burbs in droves since the 50′s. A number of libs are still pissed at Ike for the interstate system. The economic center of PA shifted from Philly to King of Prussia about 15 years ago and while Philly will always be an anchor all of the counties outside Philly have been growing faster for decades and will continue to grow faster.

If you live as I do less than 20 miles from Sales Tax free Delaware you do all of your high priced shopping there. The border inside Delaware is loaded with malls filled with PA shoppers. I save $18 if I buy a $300 TV. Booze, go to DE or MD. Gas, go to NJ. My pop has a shore house in NJ. He hasn’t bought gasoline in PA in 20 years.

We know in the year ended September 2010 CA lost nearly10,000 jobs a month and Texas gained 10,000 a month. There are other issues at play bit over time tax policy matters and what’s happened over the last few years is many blue states have raised taxes even more creating more of a differencial. This is one reason why Obama has been floating a plan to help Michigan but buying large sections of major cities such as Flint and Detroit, razing all of the buildings, roads, etc and turning them into farm or park land.

Philly is a much better managed city and has stablized it’s population for the most part because they’ve lowered their wage taxes and some business taxes. They also have a number of partnerships whereby their larger corporations contribute to a variety of permanent trusts controlled privately for the benefit of cultural institutions like the art museum. Comcast and Verizon are generous and the city doesn’t harass them with nuisance taxes. Much of the city has been quietly privatized such as Rittenhouse Sq which is a beautiful intercity park now managed by a private trust funded by it’s neighbors rather than by city workers.

Ed Rendell was a two term Mayor before he was governor and he’s the guy who initiated much of this. Despite a tight budget he passed a bill lowing the city wage tax only incrementally but did it each year dropping the 4.3125 non-resident wage tax to below 3.5% and the 4.9% resident tax to below 4%. Rendel also worked with the unions to allow private firms to take over much of the park management and along with the corporate elite design tax advantaged programs to fund major improvements to the entire cultural infrastructure. All of the major attractions now have major non-city funding sources including what might be the countries finest collections of sports arenas in South Philly. What was entirely city owned in 1985 is now entirely private with state of the art facilities for football, basketball, baseball and hockey. The phillies were able to sign Lee in large part because the fabulous baseball stadium has been sold out for two years running and heading into 2011 all ticket plans have been sold out. Adjacent to these facilities the Eagles ‘bought’ the land for the closed naval hospital and built a very large, headquarters with training, rehab and practice fields, indoor and outdoor. What was a sterile, littered environment in 1985 is now impressively landscaped and litter free.

On the other side of the Eagles complex abandoned projects were torn down and new luxury condos are being built aided by a 10-yr moratorium on the city real estate tax. Mayors Street and Nutter got Rendel. Nutter is keeping the long policy of pruning tax rates incrementally but continuously. smart tax policy will always win.

3X,
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Please explain why it is the best interest of Utah to give tax credits over two million dollars greater that total salaries and give it away to a business rather than use that same money to repair infrastructure at $30,000 per worker and use the $2 Million for equipment use and materials?
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If the State Government of Utah stuck doing government jobs like infrastructure instead of providing corporate welfare, roads and bridges would be lasting decades, not just ten years.

“Some day when you are able to get outside of your bubble maybe you will have the wisdom to understand reality.”
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Sun Tzu would have rolled his eyes at your ability to selfgratulate your wisdom while showing none. Considering you make such an inconvincing case doing it.
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Rush Limbaugh and pack isn’t ‘reality’ – it is in reality the bubble you live and operate in. Please, just PLEASE stop with the references to your enormous wisdom if it’s never on display.
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It’s like my aloholic nephew harp about how fricken smart he is, especially after is DUI he got when he ran from a car he rammed into a ditch after joyriding drunk on a revoked license (from a previous DUI),
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If it isn’t selfevident it’s not ‘wise’ to brag about it.

“Actually NY getting hollowed out fits a predictable and much predicted pattern of high taxes, unionism and high regulation impacting the lower wage industrial sector 1st and then the service sector.”.
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If that is the case, then why are the hardcore union parts of NYS- Especially NYC – growing and, why is Canada growing?
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It does fit a model for the Upstate New York/Canadian model perfectly for Liberals: companies go to where the health care is national and a flat rate rather than down in red upstate New York where it is unpredictable.
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Sorry, rwd56. You’re wrong.

Hippo,
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My ignorant friend. Some day we will have to compare Resumes and see who have the Education and real World Experiences necessary if one is to have true wisdom.
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I would expect my life accomplishments would dwarf you and Patrick’s combined.
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Of course neither of you have enough wisdom to understand that. Your life bubbles are very small.

Patrick, Patrick,
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“Please explain why it is the best interest of Utah to give tax credits over two million dollars greater that total salaries and give it away to a business rather than use that same money to repair infrastructure at $30,000 per worker and use the $2 Million for equipment use and materials?”
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As usual when you are losing an argument you change the subject. Definitely a sign of immaturity.
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The subject is that many Businesses are leaving California and moving to other States that are more Business friendly. You were arguing with freeinpa that that was not a true statement. At that point your ignorant twin Hippo jump in with some ridiculous comments.
.

.

kbanger, you reginalist, you!
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I thunked that you and foghorn were talking about some mechanic, but couldn’t spell…

No, but is Livernois something like a fart?!?!

The point being Rdw56 is that taxes are the last factor in determining where to live.
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Most determinations go something like this (but Fortune Magazine has an exact formula based upon surveys):
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1) Wages. (Except retirees).
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2) Home prices
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3) Crime.
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4) Schools (except single people, childless people and retirees).
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5) Other costs of living (if food is unusually expensive, as it is in Hawaii, for example.)
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6) Climate.
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7) Taxes.
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No local government can bring Manhattan’s private sector wages to Florida and nobody could bring Michigan’s super cheap housing to Manhattan as nobody could make NYC as warm as San Diego,.
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So, of things the local government can control is schools and safety against taxes. Balancing a good bang for your buck is what local government must do. If taxes approach $0 but your 6th grade son can’t read and your wife is getting raped, you’d be thrilled to pay a tax increase if and only if it was for more cops and better teachers.
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So, you missed the point, as usual.

“The subject is that many Businesses are leaving California and moving to other States that are more Business friendly…”
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No, it was overall if people – not even jobs – were going from blue states to Red States.”You were arguing with freeinpa that that was not a true statement.”
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No, I was debating Liberalmeltdown.
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“At that point your ignorant twin Hippo jump in with some ridiculous comments.”
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No, H came in to respond to you and your condescending tone.
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So, you are, even on the subtopic of knowing what the topic is and with whom 0% correct.
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Then you wonder why I call you Mr Magoo?
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“My ignorant friend. Some day we will have to compare Resumes and see who have the Education and real World Experiences necessary if one is to have true wisdom.
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I would expect my life accomplishments would dwarf you and Patrick’s combined.
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Of course neither of you have enough wisdom to understand that. Your life bubbles are very small.”
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The art of intellectual masturbation just got a new grand master.
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We all live in the shadow of your inflated ego, but live in fear that the explosion will cover us in snot.
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I’ll take my inferior whatever anyday over your massive pile of BS.

Patrick, Patrick,
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“Please explain why it is the best interest of Utah to give tax credits over two million dollars greater that total salaries and give it away to a business rather than use that same money to repair infrastructure at $30,000 per worker and use the $2 Million for equipment use and materials?”
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As usual when you are losing an argument you change the subject. Definitely a sign of immaturity.
.
The subject is that many Businesses are leaving California and moving to other States that are more Business friendly. You were arguing with freeinpa that that was not a true. At that point your ignorant twin Hippo jump in with some ridiculous comments.
.

.

3x,
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Never mind my ignorance. When you’re done stroking your intellect I’m sure you’ll explain how it is that the list you and others defend is full of holes.
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Maybe it’s just me but I would never defend bad data; I’d mea culpa and move on instead of circling the wagons on stuff that just doesn’t add up.

3X,
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Repeating over and over that I am changing the topic does not make it so.
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Topic: Is EBay Moving 10.0.
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They are opening a new place in exchange for tax incentives 10.1
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10.2 + 10.3
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10.4 “Patrick, Patrick”.
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10.7 and an exact replication on 10.10, you say that I am changing the topic.
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Mr Magoo needs an eye doctor.
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Gary R. Herbert, Republican governor of Utah in a recession is giving away tax payer money to EBay and should, hopefully, lose his next campaign to a more responsible person in 2013.

Canada is not a model for the USA, especially under Harper. They did not has anywhere near as severe a banking or real estate problem and had a milder and shorter recession because they did not follow Obama.

As far as Western NYS the pattern has been repeated across the rust belt as old industries have died off after becoming non competitive due to unionism and high tax policies. The South has been rising for several decades as seen by looking at the auto industry for just one example.

You can also look at the cities doing well and those not so well and see the well are/were led by people like Rudy Guilaini and Ed Rendell who were former DAs tough on crime and fiscally conservative. Rendell as Mayor of Phila started cutting the city wage tax by small amounts but did it each year so now the 4.9% tax is below 4% and the 4 .3125% non-resident wage tax is below 3.5%. The city has also over at least two decades extended tax rebates for developers and new business activity. Rendell stablized Phillys sharp decline by promoting conservative policies as did Rudy in NY. By contrast cities like Cleveland and Detroit are dying and Obama is trying to push a olan to bulldoze as much as 40% of more than 30 northern cities to remove the dead parts and restore them to parkland.

We are at a happy place where the voters just spoke and they said to cut spending and get the budget in balance by getting spending back to the 18% of GDP levels under Clinton. The fact the Tea Party has so much influence with the House of Representatives all but ensures major spending reductions.