In the Arena

Two Dreams, One Dead

The Senate today passed the repeal of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” which is a good thing. It did not pass the “Dream Act,” which is a cold, cold abomination. There is a relationship between the two. Repealing “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” will allow homosexuals–who have fought honorably in every one of America’s wars–to serve openly. Blocking the “Dream Act” means that young immigrants, who were brought here illegally by their parents, will not be able to gain citizenship by completing college or by serving in the military.

The repeal of “don’t ask”  will get most of the attention in the media–as it should, another step toward the perfection of our democracy. But let us focus for a moment on the “Dream Act,” a vote of staggering cynicism and ugliness on the part of most Republicans and five morally-deficient Democrats. Two of the original sponsors, John McCain and Orrin Hatch, voted against the bill…and one wonders why, especially in McCain’s case, given the fact that he recently won reelection and doesn’t have to pretend to be a troglodyte anymore. McCain has professed himself all misty and honored in the past when he attended ceremonies in which green-card holders and other non-citizens achieved citizenship through military service. But, because of the anti-immigrant mania, this flagrantly cynical and cowardly politician, would deny similar status  to young people who–through no fault of their own–were brought to this country as children, grew up as Americans and love the country enough to serve it. If the Dream Act were passed, we would have gained an estimated 65,000 valuable, patriotic and productive citizens–college graduates, military service-members–each year. We could use them. (More on Time.com: See a brief history of gays in the military)

McCain distinguished himself doubly this weekend, opposing the Dream Act and leading the opposition to “Don’t Ask,” despite the very public positions of his wife and daughter on the other side of the issue. I used to know a different John McCain, the guy who proposed comprehensive immigration reform with Ted Kennedy, the guy–a conservative, to be sure, but an honorable one–who refused to indulge in the hateful strictures of his party’s extremists. His public fall has been spectacular, a consequence of politics–he “needed” to be reelected–and personal pique. He’s a bitter man now, who can barely tolerate the fact that he lost to Barack Obama. But he lost for an obvious reason: his campaign proved him to be puerile and feckless, a politician who panicked when the heat was on during the financial collapse, a trigger-happy gambler who chose an incompetent for his vice president. He has made quite a show ever since of demonstrating his petulance and lack of grace.

What a guy.

More on Time.com:

See the 50 moments of 2010: a week by week news chronicle

See what U.S. students thought about the Dream Act

Related Topics: Uncategorized
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  • sacredh

    “Two of the bills original sponsors, John McCain and Orrin Hatch, voted against the bill…and one wonders why, especially in McCain’s case, given the fact that he recently won reelection and doesn’t have to pretend to be a troglodyte anymore.”
    .
    No. One does not wonder. McCain has just proven again that he’s just a bitter old c0cksucker that will vote against anything that the guy that beat his ass in the election supports.

  • sacredh

    Who would have thought that zeroes would come in so handy?

  • Paul-no not that one

    Wow.
    .
    That you posted on a Saturday night with such passion is striking.
    .
    Impressive, I wouldn’t change a letter.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Ha- that’s a good tip.
    .
    Let me rephrase-that is a good heads up.
    .
    No that’s not right either, just thanks sacredh.

  • sacredh

    IMOHO, Senator McCain can’t get over that a relative unknown that he picked to be his VP candidate (Palin) upstaged him in the general election and then went on to completely eclipse his own star after the election. She’s relevant now and if he didn’t shamelessly whore himself out on the Sunday morning news shows nobody would pay any attention to him at all. He’s on a “Look at me!” mission to try to convince the rest of us that he’s still a player. He’ll change any position and say anything to keep himself in the news. He’s Paris Hilton with a d!ck. And wrinkles.

  • sacredh

    You’re welcome. I live to serve the public.

  • sacredh

    I’m one of the Few. The Proud. Sordid Idiots.
    .
    I enjoy your posts Joe. I’m not disagreeing with any of your previous allegations either. I offend more people before breakfast than most others do in a day.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “He’ll change any position and say anything to keep himself in the news. He’s Paris Hilton with a d!ck. And wrinkles.”
    .
    Oh, no!
    .
    Is there going to be a secret John McCain sex tape floating around?
    .
    Damn I hope not!

  • queencersei

    Sorry Joe, but the John McCain you see now is the same John McCain from ten years ago. People need to get over the myth of the ‘Straight Talk Express’. McCain is a political whore who will do or say whatever it takes to win whatever he is running for. If it means running as a squishy progressive it will. If it means running as a hard ass war hawk, he will. He’ll do whatever it takes, switch whatever formally cherished belief he supposedly has to further his own ambitions. The real difference is that some in the media, like yourself, are finally seeing him for the self-serving waste that he has probably always been since he was a teenager.

  • queencersei

    And that goes double for Mitt.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Mittens Romney, the king of flip flopping.
    .
    I was there for a year after he got elected governor. He sold himself on not being too conservative (just as the previous three Republican governors of Massachusetts did) and then try to get the Republican nomination by saying, yes he is that conservative.
    .
    I’d have to say that when it comes to having no objective other than being elected, McCain isn’t as bad as Romney.

  • sacredh

    “Is there going to be a secret John McCain sex tape floating around?”
    .
    I thought I saw one the other day but it turned out to be an old guy trying to slice a peach with a piece of cooked spaghetti.

  • mikew67

    Progress, assuming one must have a military at all…

    Nowhere to be found in all the talk of government spending; Defense. Now over $750 billion per year. No problem? Lift up the rock to find more slush funds, overspending and fraud, than even in Medicare.

    Balkingpoints / www

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    In my adult life I have known far more immigrants than I have Americans.
    .
    After high school – where there were, basically, no immigrants – I went to a college with many foreign students including a few who were very good friends.
    .
    When I had to start working, and, eventually, drop out of college, I drove a cab up in Boston where 85% of the cab drivers were immigrants.
    .
    When I left that business I worked security part time and full time over another five year period. I would say that about 60% of the security guards are immigrants in Boston.
    .
    Then I drove a cab in New York for three years where, literally, 95% of the cab drivers are immigrants.
    .
    It’s only been the last few years that I have had jobs where I work with other Americans, but, I live in Queens, where over 60% of the residents are immigrants.
    .
    All of this fear of immigrants is totally baffling to me.

    The people I find most confusing are not immigrants, but Americans from small, rural towns who are devout evangelicals and right wing.

    Basically, if I were to pick somebody who would be frightening to me, it would be Sacred’s mother-in-law, not the dude who fixed my car, the girl who poured my coffee, the next door neighbors…. etc.

  • marvyt

    Like several commenters here, I have never liked or trusted McCain. However, even I’m surprised at how craven and bitter he has become. Good post Joe.

  • sacredh

    “The people I find most confusing are not immigrants, but Americans from small, rural towns who are devout evangelicals and right wing.”
    .
    Not even a town. Houses. No store, gas station, Post Office, fast food joint or even a red light within 2 miles. When I say rural, I mean rural. Two churches though. I don’t attend, but I do honk my horn when I drive by just in case I’m wrong about religion. Better safe than sorry.

  • sacredh

    OT, but the Wizards just gave a game away to the Miami Heat. They were leading by 4 with 16 seconds left and had led much of the game. They lost by 1.

  • Ike Jakson

    Joe

    You are just the man I have been looking for. A number of us have been compiling statistics on homosexuals who have actually fought in American Wars and then I saw your Post.

    We need all details of whom you describe above as “homosexuals–who have fought honorably in every one of America’s wars–to serve openly.” [names, rank, which war] for the following battles:

    The Mexican War
    The Independence War with England
    The Civil War of 1860 to 1865

    If you don’t have it at your fingertips, would you be so kind of giving us the Internet links and we will get it from there. Other sources [writers, reference books] will also be appreciated.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    I seem to have stumbled onto a looney leftwing blogsite.
    .
    The DREAM is dead! Awesome!!

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    …a conservative, to be sure, but an honorable one
    .
    Substitute the word ‘liberal’ for ‘conservative’ in reference to some other politician and just imagine the frothing frenzy such would evoke from the local commentariat. The image is priceless.

  • apr2563

    I have used them before for the word p00p, as in John McCain is an old p00p.

  • formerlyjames

    I sort of agree. McCain is a shadow of himself. Let’s not forget that he is truly an American hero (as were his father and grandfather) regardless of the useless war in which he served. What his problem is now, I don’t know. Senility? Possibly. Selfish pandering to the tea party he helped incite with the inane selection of the monster he created in Sarah Palin? Probably.

    A few years ago in Mexico a young concierge in a hotel was helping me and he had an obvious American accent. I asked about it, and he told me that he had been raised and lived all his life in California, and had graduated from high school there. I tried to find out more of the story, but he just said that it was complicated and he didn’t want to talk about it. He looked really uncomfortable about discussing it, and I left it alone. But he helped me, and during the Dream Act debate, I have thought about him.

    The repeal of DADT is a victory for equal rights. I am happy for those who will suffer less anxiety and conflict in their military profession for being who they are. That will be a great relief to many. Yet, I see the greater victory for separation of church and state. Those prejudices which deny those people equal existence and fair protection originate in religion. There will be difficulties, and there won’t be any gay pride parades on military installations, but it is a great step. James Amos can pray all he wants, and incite in his religious beliefs all he wants, and he can fight this battle all he wants, but he will lose this war in the end.

    Which is to say, that it is all much more complicated than blaming McCain for the state of things. He is pandering to the ignorant, and in my opinion, the anti-American right wing. James Amos should hold a prayer meeting. I can go on, but won’t. Great victory in repeal of DADT, great loss in failure of the Dream Act. The American ideal stumbles on.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Yet, I see the greater victory for separation of church and state. Those prejudices which deny those people equal existence and fair protection originate in religion.
    .
    Eh, you’re not worth it. Nevermind.

  • pneogy

    “I used to know a different John McCain, the guy who proposed comprehensive immigration reform with Ted Kennedy, the guy–a conservative, to be sure, but an honorable one–who refused to indulge in the hateful strictures of his party’s extremists.”

    His party’s extremists? Don’t you mean the lock-step phalanx of his party?

  • formerlyjames

    “Eh, you’re not worth it. Nevermind.”

    Exiled, I noticed your irrelevant shot earlier at somebody using irregardless. Never mind.

    Considering the source, I accept the comment as a high compliment.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Sure you do.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    I wonder if the irony of your hypocrisy always eludes you or if you ever just sit back in awe of your own gross violation of your self-proclaimed principles. Equality. The American ideal. Tolerance. Oh, yes, we stumble on towards the great society devoid of morality and religion, not of our choosing, of course, but because of the Constitution-shredding prejudices of the tolerant wing of the liberal movement.

  • apr2563

    http://woodwonderwall.blogspot.com/2010/12/his-headstone-says-it-all.html
    .
    “When I was in the military they gave me a medal for killing two men and a discharge for loving one”
    Headstone of Leonard Matlovich, recipient of a Purple Heart and Bronze Star.
    .
    http://blogs.chron.com/immigration/archives/2008/03/post_98.html
    .
    U.S. Marine Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, as seen in photos at the home of his sister in Guatemala City, was one of the first combat casualties of the war in Iraq. He had come to the U.S. illegally from Guatemala as a teenager. .
    .
    Thank you Joe for your passionate support for the Dream Act. McCain, the man who left his first wife after returning from Vietnam was not admirable then and not now. His wife had been badly injured and disfigured in a accident and he left her for the wealthy, lovely, Cindy.

  • apr2563

    Not just McCain but the whole craven set of Republican right wingers and the conservative Dems should feel shame. I was a big supporter of John Tester. No longer.
    .
    If I felt that most of these Senators really believed in their stance, I might have some understanding. But most vote on their political expediency and not on the ethics or morality of their votes. They are trying to please the “family values” groups who will never be happy until we are a Christian theocracy.
    .
    Of course, there is always the crazy Republican Rep. Louis Gohmert who tells us that the Dream Act would legitimize “illegal” babies brought here to be raised as terrorists. McCain likes being on this guy’s side?

  • formerlyjames

    Exiled, I had to read that 3 times to get a grasp of what you are telling me, and I am not sure I was successful. The devoid of morality and religion part still has me stumped. There is no such thing as secular morality? I don’t care about religion until it imposes itself on my secular world. Pray, have faith, merry christmas. Just don’t stink up my world with it.

  • apr2563

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/democrats-confident-911-health-bill-pass/story?id=12431493
    .
    Now let’s see if the Senate has the moral fortitude to vote for the 9/11 first responders bill when it is reintroduced next week. It received a 57-42 vote but the ever present filabuster remained.
    .
    Hopefully, after Jon Stewart’s heartfelt interview with 9/11 survivors that shamed the traditional media into more coverage, the Senators will find it politically ok to do the right thing.

  • apr2563

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/18/joe-manchin-dadt-repeal_n_798720.html
    .
    Also, the cowardly Dem. Joe Manchin can go to h*ll. He wasn’t even brave enough to be there to vote for DADT, his political stance.
    .
    He is not as brave as the miners that risk their lives everyday. What a putz.

  • apr2563
  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Of course you can have morality without religion, that is why I used the conjunction “and” when listing the two.
    .
    Just don’t stink up my world with it.
    .
    This gets right to the heart of my argument with you. You claim to have some sense of principle, some allegiance to the tenet of equality and tolerance, which in your opinion, includes the right of homosexuals to do all sorts of things which the rest of society is allowed to do, e.g. join the military, get married, etc. Fine. That, on its own, is a straight-forward position to take. However, you don’t want to extend that to the religious. You want the faithful to shut themselves up out of view and practice their religion in private. If I want homosexuals to shut them selves up out of public sight, I’m a bigot. If you want the faithful to do that, you’re some shining example of enlightened equality? Public expression of faith is something explicitly protected under the Constitution. It’s as clear cut as can be. Your version of “separation of church and state” fundamentally undermines this right of the people by accommodating your personal hang-ups with religion. Hypocrisy, pure and simple.

  • textee

    Pea-brained, nut job, leftist moron Joe Klein “thinks” that the United States military should have an open door for homosexuals because John McCain’s “wife and daughter” support allowing homosexuals in the United States military!

    That’s precisely what the United States military needs: Obamao, Klein, McCain’s wife and McCain’s daughter, none of whom knows a damn thing about the United States military, determining what’s in the best interest of the United States military!

    Lord, please protect us from these fanatics.

  • anon76

    Not sure I agree with that- Joe is on this site as the self-described liberal. “Conservative, but honorable” would be the proper way to describe members you respect on the “other” side in such a situation.
    .
    On the other hand, you certainly drew the short straw for placement within the thread if you were trying to paint a picture of a frothy, left-wing commentariat. Ike and twothirds do yeomen’s work in ennobling the rest of us daily.

  • formerlyjames

    I don’t know where to begin. You object to my objection of religious prejudices and discrimination, yet, you defend the right of those prejudices and discrimination and persecution of people born of your imaginary god and claim that my view is discriminatory and prejudicial. Are we on a circular argument here or what?
    .
    Let me simplify. All human beings deserve respect and equal treatment and freedom from discrimination and abuse. That is the foundation of our country as stated in our constitution. Your religion denies that. Your Pope is not in agreement. Although I am sure you don’t want to get into all of the support of unequal, discriminatory, persecutory, evils supported by your bible, as amended by your vatican, nor do I, that is a fact.
    .
    Exiled, you question my sense of principal and claim that my prejudice toward religion obviates my fairness, yet I have repeatedly stated that I respect the right of people to practice their religion, as defined in our constitution. The problem seems to be that you refuse to recognize the imposition of your religious beliefs on our society, our government, our military, is not in keeping with the intent of the constitution. I say again, I have no objection to people practicing their faith, whatever it is. Period. Don’t include me, I won’t be praying with you. I defend your right up to the point that you insist that I agree with your practice. Same goes with homos. I defend their right to be as they are, same as you are what you are, up to the point that they insist that I join. To you, to homos, to the Pope, I say, don’t worry, be happy. But we part company when you demand that I be part of the club.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Love, love, love the McCain slagging.
    .
    If the xenophobes want to play it this way, fine, but then these young people shouldn’t be serving in the military at all.
    .
    Make these congressional rat bastards pay top-$ for more mercenaries–XE would love the business.
    .
    Of course, I say this as someone who hates the notion of gays or kids whose families came from poor countries (of brown people) doing our empire’s dirty work (i.e. going to other poor countries where untold numbers of brown people wind up dead as a result).

  • apr2563

    jcapan, maybe the right wing predictions will come true. Straights will flee from military service. “Illegals” will no longer be recruited and will be returned to their homelands. Christians will be too afraid to enlist. This will leave us with such a depleted military we won’t go to war no more, no more!

  • formerlyjames

    Allowing homosexuals in the military? They are there, allowed or not. They are all around us. Your neighbor, your relatives, people at the mall, your sons or daughters, if you are able to propagate. All around. Be afraid. Very afraid. BTW, the moron Joe Klein for whatever doors he may or may not open in your imagination, is doing very well at what he does, whether you approve or not. And whatever my President, Klein, McCain’s wife and daughter know about the military, what do you know about it? Fanatics? Look it up in the dictionary. You might see your picture, it should be there, even if you don’t see it.

  • formerlyjames

    Stand by. The worst is still to come.

  • apr2563

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/reaction-dadt-vote-few-proud-sexually-twisted
    .
    How the theocrats are reacting. Did you know that Senator Brown might enjoy homosexual attention? Liberman is a disgraceful Jew. We are mainstreaming deviant homosexual behavior. Most efficient strategy to destroy America. Most disturbing theocratic logic of all:
    .

    The armies of other nations have allowed gays to serve openly in the military. The reason they could afford to do this is simple: they could allow homosexuals to serve in their military because we didn’t allow them to serve in ours.
    They knew they could count on the strength, might, power, and cohesion of the U.S. military to intervene whenever and wherever necessary to pull their fannies out of the fire and squash the forces of tyranny wherever they raised their ugly heads around the world.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Apr, would it were so, but I’m afraid I line up w/F-James’ less cheery outlook. When the GOP regains power and our fiscal ship continues into the vortex, there’s only one answer they’ll contemplate. I can only hope it involves the Middle East and not something in my own backyard.

  • liberalmeltdown

    20.1, since 88% of the armed forces are Christians, you shouldn’t care. You don’t like them anyway.
    .
    http://www.aolnews.com/2010/02/19/religious-incidents-raise-concern-about-military-proselytizing/
    .
    Weinstein estimates that about 88 percent of the U.S. military is either protestant or Catholic, with 4 percent representing other faiths, atheists and agnostics. According to Pentagon statistics, 22 percent of active personnel are evangelical Christians.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    This seems right to me too. There’s no evidence that John McCain knows anything about anything, or gives a whit about any particular issues. His one fixed belief is that John McCain is awesome. The country had a look at him, and said “no thanks.” (Well, political scientists would say that he ran as a Republican in a cycle where Republicans had little chance of winning, but we’ll leave that aside– certainly he believes the country picked the cool guy over the good guy, anyway, what with the not knowing anything about anything). So he has nothing left to do except vent his spleen at the country that rejected him, and, eventually, die.
    -
    Here’s a list of 76 McCain issue reversals, from the 2008 campaign: http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/flipflops Even on torture, he was willing to demonstrate to whichever electorate stood before him that if they didn’t like his principles, he had others.
    -
    I used to know a different John McCain, the guy who proposed comprehensive immigration reform with Ted Kennedy, the guy–a conservative, to be sure, but an honorable one–who refused to indulge in the hateful strictures of his party’s extremists.
    -
    Um, yeah, ok, here’s the thing: there’s no difference between any random Tea Partier waving signs and John Boehner or Mitch McConnell.
    -
    There are about a half-dozen Republicans in Congress who have evinced an iota of caring about policy, or America’s future or economic health or standing in the world, in the past two (let’s make that 10) years. (Here’s a partial list of issues on which the GOP has entirely reversed itself of late: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_06/024459.php Worse still is the deficit enhancement in the service of the bank accounts of the wealthy that comprises their only principle). They’ve filibustered just about everything– more than in the history of the republic– including things they ostensibly supported a month ago, or support now (that’s Snowe & Brown’s go-to maneuver).
    -
    Joe, you need to get past this verbal tic/mental habit of yours, that honorable conservatives like Bob Dole and Barry Goldwater and Mike Castle and Howard Baker and Edward Brooke need to stand up to the extremists in their party, and the same for Democratic moderates.
    -
    The Democratic Party is a centrist party– enacting the Heritage Foundation’s health insurance reform plan, loading a stimulus universally regarded as necessary with tax cuts, following the advice of the military and GOP SecDef Gates on DADT; and many supported invading Iraq and the Bush tax policies.
    -
    Conservatism, meanwhile, has become completely shorn of policy views. It’s pure identity politics all the way down. No one embodies that more than the talentless, gleefully ignorant reality TV star who is the only legacy that John McCain has.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    That was just plain ugly. I mean, to turn that ball over underneath the Heat’s basket, then commit a foul about a tenth of a second later? A shame, ’cause Young played well, but that was an awful lapse.
    -
    In the wake of the Werth signing, the McNabb benching & l’affair Haynesworth, and the unloading of Arenas’s brutal contract, I guess the Wizards have locked up the status of “only Washington’s third-most contemptible sports franchise!” But man, they’re still not particularly good at anything.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Son, if this blog is the place you’re coming to in order to gain pleasure from your fevered imaginings of people’s actions, you’re using the Internet all wrong.

  • apr2563

    I was being ironic. As you can tell from liberalmeltdown, war will always be with us. “Onward Christian Soldiers”.

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  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    No, two thirds brain, you slept through the twentieth century in a booze driven haze and just woke up to find out where America is.
    .
    Your messiah, Ronald Reagan gave amnesty to all illegal immigrants who had been here a certain number of years. I guess you were asleep when that happened and when even GWB pushed for a third amnesty.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Exiled,
    .
    If I had a dollar for every time each and every liberal poster said that a Democrat sold out to the right, I would be in the top tax bracket even if I didn’t work a day of my life.
    .
    Nobody is really saying that Democrats do not have people who switch their views, but, McCain is the default leader of the Republican Party (Unless you want to call Palin or Limbaugh the leaders – which I presume you don’t).
    .
    Reagan and GWB were all about amnesty to illegal immigrants since they provide our country with more benefits than expenses and the fact shared with many here today that we all are descended from immigrants (except Native Americans).
    .
    So, this McCain going from respectable conservative (as I would call you, if you don’t mind being labeled) to Xenophobic. It aint pretty to watch.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Exiled,
    .
    I have made the argument that homophobia is not exclusively from religion.
    .
    I do not believe that anybody here would ever support any kind of a measure demanding that the Catholic Church nor any other religion accepts homosexuality.
    .
    Calling this “constitution shredding” is a disturbing remark.
    .
    As I have said before, sexual orientation is a characteristic, not a decision. I find the religious stance that refraining from gay sex is holy very amusing since I find the idea of gay sex about as unappealing as eating the keyboard to my computer. So, if the Catholic Church declared eating your keyboard a mortal sin, too, then I guess I would be on the path to sainthood, wouldn’t I?
    .
    As for immorality goes…
    .
    Preventable war, preventable poverty, the death penalty (which the church officially opposes if I am not mistaken) and abortion are the moral issues.
    .
    How about forcing people to lie? That’s what DADT did.
    .
    I think we can both agree that homosexuality is not contagious. Letting them explain that they are gay is not going to turn anybody else gay. It is just saving them from lying all of the time.
    .
    If I were to say, except for abortion (where I take what is considered the conservative stance – although I do not see it that way) which party fights for a more moral and just society at least in party platforms? Democrats.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    I’m beginning to think that, since he puts homosexuality into every post that textee is, actually, a gay activist mocking the right wing and trying to get more attention to gay causes.
    .
    Anybody who sees gays in their granola bar the way textee does has some serious problems unless he is faking being a right winger, in which case he is really annoying.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    psychiatric meltdown,
    .
    88%Christian, plus 4% Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh plus 22% evangelical equals 114%.
    .
    I think you started with 22% Evangelical 4% other and are too mathematically impaired to calculate that the non-Evangelical Christians are 76%.
    .
    Nobody is asking anybody to change their religious beliefs.
    .
    If an evangelical walks into a restaurant with his minister and the waiter is gay, does that mean that the evangelical Christian and his minister are going to hell for not… I guess walking out of the restaurant on the sound of a lisp of affected mannerisms or does everything work out just fine by everybody’s standards?
    .
    So, if an Evangelical Christian sergeant takes orders in practice and in combat from a man who announced that he was gay, is the sergeant going to hell?
    .
    I would presume not.
    .
    So, letting gays announce that they are gay does not interfere with anybody’s religion.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    It could be that we didn’t allow gays to serve, but, I strongly suspect that it is for every $12 spent on the military worldwide, $7 of it are spent by Americans.
    .
    We may have a better trained, housed, fed and armed force than anybody else in the world and if don’t the military industrial complex really, really ripped us off.
    .
    But if the far right wishes to believe that it is because gays lie to get into the military, then I have an idea: lets cut some of those funds to the military to spend on health care, schools, roads and bridges instead.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    It must be very frustrating, for those who held John McCain up as the archetype of moderation, to see his true nature revealed in such stark and ugly dimensions. Maybe the hole thing is an illusion?

  • kbanginmotown

    My personal favorites:
    .
    (1) -a conservative, to be sure, but an honorable one-
    .
    This speaks volumes.
    .
    And:
    (2) “I used to know a different John McCain…”
    .
    To which I reply:
    JOE! Back away from the tire swing! Keep your hands off the BBQ….

  • allthingsinaname

    Which religion?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Which religion?”
    .
    If I understand correctly, Exiled is Catholic.
    .
    I was raised Catholic and will say for the third time now that I never once heard a Catholic priest have a sermon about gays.
    .
    For one thing, nearly every Catholic mass has pre-adolescents present.
    .
    Another reason is – at least in the 1980s (perhaps not in a more innocent time) many of the teenage boys figured that the priests were gay. Among many priests who had been in the parish I was in, one in the late 1970s were murdered by a gay hustler. One only a few years ago came out to have had a 25 or 30 year gay relationship. A third one, the one I knew the best, in his early 40s ran off and married a woman.
    .
    I have been an atheist for about 13 years now, but, I don’t like false allegations.
    .
    Yes, I was aware that gay sex is a mortal sin for Catholics. But, having sex with your girlfriend, using a condom while having sex with your wife and even missing the Catholic mass are all, also, mortal sins,
    .
    I, also, pointed out that a non-religious culture, Japan, is, if anything, significantly more homophobic than the US.
    .
    As for evangelicals… Even when I was a practicing Catholic I always found Evangelicals a little creepy.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Damn it!
    .
    74% would be the remainder, not 76%!
    .
    I hate screwing up.
    .
    Too much time with the mathematically impaired right wing ruins my math.

  • Ivy_B

    Amusing that your comment posted right below that wierd cartoonish sig from that spammer.
    .

    to see his true nature revealed in such stark and ugly dimensions.
    .
    Seemed so appropriate.

  • lilaland

    “He’s a bitter man now, who can barely tolerate the fact that he lost to Barack Obama”

    Um. I hate to break it to you Joe, but he was a bitter man when he lost to GW in the republican primaries. He voted again Bush on things like “tax cuts” for the rich, not because of principle. He did it out of spite. He did it to undermine the Authority of Bush. He does the same with Obama now. It never was a matter of honor with McCain. That is where the left gets it wrong. They left sees their own believes as honorable and McCain’s old support as proof he was. He never was. He was punishing Bush the same way he punishes Obama.
    McCain has very little honor. He never has had much, that is why he tries so hard to sell that image of himself. It is a glorified ego image, but it is not real.
    McCain is a very spiteful immature man. He was the same way with GW too.

  • http://shortplaysaboutrealpeople.wordpress.com Michael Maiello

    I remember honorable John, too. But the current John isn’t pretending to be a troglodyte or anything of the sort. The old John would never have pretended anyway. He was willing to lose an election if he had to. As evidence I point to the 2000 primaries.

    But I also point to those primaries and to how Bush beat him as the start of the change. Bush was every bit the upstart Obama was. What we see in John McCain now is what happens when somebody loses faith in the idea that hard work and patience eventually pay off. McCain no longer believes in fair play or in giving anyone a fair shot.

  • tilliswynette

    I got news for you New York journ-o-lists! A homosexual army is not a DREAM here in Texas! We dont want it and our both our Senators, Hutchison and Cornyn voted to keep the army normal. Keep your dreams to yourself.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    James,
    You are either a pathological liar or incredibly susceptible to “anti-Papist” propaganda. Either way, you are immutable. However, I shall rejoin your diatribe and shed some truth on this issue for the sake of those reading over this commentary.I’d hate for them to take your twisted version of events at face value.
    .
    You object to my objection of religious prejudices and discrimination, yet, you defend the right of those prejudices and discrimination and persecution of people born of your imaginary god and claim that my view is discriminatory and prejudicial.
    .
    Absolutely not. I object to your objections of religion and faith being on display in our society, because it happens to be Constitutionally sacrosanct. I do not defend any discrimination or persecution, that is why I defend the repeal of DADT. I also, if you had ever noticed, do not engage in any “bashing” of gays or anyone else except for patently insane right-wingers and hypocrisy-laden prejudicial left-wingers. They should be fair-game because their hyperbole and hatred is a threat to our society.
    .
    All human beings deserve respect and equal treatment and freedom from discrimination and abuse. That is the foundation of our country as stated in our constitution. Your religion denies that. Your Pope is not in agreement.
    .
    The Church has always been a vocal opponent of discrimination in society, in all its forms, from leading the charge in support of the Civil Rights Movement to fighting against totalitarian forms of government such as Communism and Fascim -at great risk to herself, mind you- to objecting to all forms of violence aimed at a particular group of people. If you think that the Church’s position against homosexuality itself is synonymous with supporting discrimination and abuse, you are wildly mistaken. If we go back a bit, we also see that the Church was the first to come out against slavery and colonization in the 1500s, the loudest and most effective protector of Jews in all of Europe during the Third Reich’s reign, and a solid player in combating modern human trafficking.
    .
    As for your last paragraph, if it is true, then that’s great. Unfortunately, whenever the Church comes out publicly with a position that you do not agree with, your general tendency is to throw out what you just said, and opt instead for an exhortation on how they should stay out of the public sphere or stay out of government. etc. Again, as per usual, you confuse public expression as interference in government. Your principles seem to waver and flutter with the wind, solely dependent upon the content of expression, not the act itself.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Patrick-
    Perhaps you are mistaken, but I don’t support DADT. I’m unaware as to whether the Church has taken a position, but if she has, I’m certain it would be in support of repeal.
    .
    When it comes to social issues, the Democratic Party has taken up some of the Church’s positions as a formality. But, more often than not, the Democratic Party has failed to make progress on issues such as poverty reduction, education, preventing war, universal healthcare etc. Mostly the rhetoric far surpasses action. And then, of course, the Democratic Party has taken great action to increase the availability of, access to, and assistance with obtaining an abortion. So, I’d say the Democratic Party’s morality meter is running on the same fumes as the GOP’s.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Anon, the remark was not intended to illicit a frothing response from anyone. Merely a musing.
    .
    Elvis, son? Pardonne-moi?

  • allthingsinaname

    I have never heard the church (Catholic) preach that the institution should be the controlling factor in politics. It does preach that faith demands action and those actions should lead to social justice and, understanding of other beliefs or, religions.
    .
    It does not lead to demanding the posting of Ten Commandments or that the institution of religion take over the political process.
    .
    It is my opinion though that there are some religious elements that we need to be wary of. These people do see the combining of the State and Religion as God’s command.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor


    When it comes to social issues, the Democratic Party has taken up some of the Church’s positions as a formality. But, more often than not, the Democratic Party has failed to make progress on issues such as poverty reduction, education, preventing war, universal healthcare etc. Mostly the rhetoric far surpasses action. And then, of course, the Democratic Party has taken great action to increase the availability of, access to, and assistance with obtaining an abortion. So, I’d say the Democratic Party’s morality meter is running on the same fumes as the GOP’s.”
    .
    I don’t think you have been totally unfair to Democrats, but, as I see it, the Democratic Party always has in it’s platform to do good for the working people and sometimes delivers while the Republican Party promises to give tax breaks to the wealthiest, cut regulation designed to protect consumers, workers and investors and has an outstanding record of giving people the shaft, just like they promise.
    .
    I think that is why that progressive Democrats had minor losses, moderate Democrats had significant losses and Blue Dog Democrats took on serious losses. People wanted affordable health care preferably without added on costs of private profits, advertising and, instead of $200k/year bureaucrat in a small, ordinary looking office rather than a $20M CEO with a 1,000 square foot office in some posh part of town and progressive Democrats really tried hard.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Till,
    .
    Unlike blacks, who Texas did not want integrated with the regular army 60 years ago, gays don’t look different.
    .
    Nobody really can say how many gays their are in the Army and how many of them are in bases in Texas already.
    .
    I have no idea why you would pick out New York as a place which supports gays in the military more than Austin does – from what I hear, Austin Texas makes New York City look a little bit conservative by contrast.
    .
    “We dont want it and our both our Senators, Hutchison and Cornyn voted to keep the army normal.”
    .
    As I said, as best as we can tell, starting with the British Colonial Army – the first armed forces in the US – the Army never was “normal”
    .
    “Keep your dreams to yourself.”
    .
    The DREAM act is about the children of illegal immigrants being able to earn their way to citizenship and, outside of the military being one of several prescribed means to do so, it is totally unrelated to the issue of DADT.
    .
    There was a great story I heard about Texas. There was this long dialog written by an Army Sergeant about how these people crossing the border were nothing but layabout drunks and religious fanatics trying to convert everybody and so on.
    .
    The Army Sergeant was in the Mexican Army when Texas was a part of Mexico and the layabout drunks and religious fanatics were your predecessors in Texas.

  • allthingsinaname

    Where did you get the idea that you can speak for TX?
    Same place you got the idea that the Dream Act had anything do do with Gays in the Military?

  • bojimbo26

    As Dr House would say ” Everybody lies ” .

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Allthings,

    Thanks for the insightful input. I don’t disagree with a word you’ve written.

  • louanw

    I must be mistaken, but I thought the article “Two Dreams, One Dead” – covered both DADT AND the Dream Act.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Till is just irritable since his wife hasn’t let him shove his agenda down her throat for a few years now.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    Is Swampland a good place to sell Gucci T-shirts?

  • freeinpa

    “Damn it!
    .
    74% would be the remainder, not 76%!
    .
    I hate screwing up.
    .
    Too much time with the mathematically impaired right wing ruins my math.”
    .
    Hate screwing up. You must be really self-loathing then because your life is a screw-up (College dropout, failed taxi driver, failed used car salesman and reject form public service).
    .
    Liberal math never adds up, that is basis of liberalism. But your reaction for something wrong is typical blame the conservatives. Convenient but as wrong as your math (and econ. and history and your grasp of reality)

  • untalt

    The Dream Act is a Nightmare. It isn’t all fluffy and sweetness here.
    This is a backhanded way of providing amnesty to millions, not just students and military.
    Because of chain migration anyone legalzied would be able to sponsor their relatives for legalization. That translates to millions of people, with no background checks at all. So, the brother of one of these students, Jose the gang banger can then become a citizen. It’s ludicrous.
    These students don’t even have to graduate, all they have to finish is 2 years of college. This Bill is a total piece of garbage. Reid and Obama and the rest of the spineless Democrats would sell their own mother down the river to get reelected. This article calls those who voted for this garbage Bill immoral, while it is those who voted for it who are immoral.
    They are supposed to represent Americans. It’s time for them to care more about us than foreigners who broke our laws and couldn’t give a rat’s ass about this country.
    http://www.numbersusa.com
    Join the fight against an illegal alien amnesty and get rid of those like Richard Lugar, who voted for this monstrocity.
    You all already know that Pelosi, Reid, Obama and the rest of the leftwing cabal need to go.

  • freeinpa

    “After high school – where there were, basically, no immigrants – I went to a college with many foreign students including a few who were very good friends”
    .
    All went to night school to learn how to speak English.
    .
    “When I had to start working, and, eventually, drop out of college, I drove a cab up in Boston where 85% of the cab drivers were immigrants.”
    .
    Employment for the uneducated and other dropouts and you even failed at that.
    .
    “hen I left that business I worked security part time and full time over another five year period. I would say that about 60% of the security guards are immigrants in Boston.
    .
    Then I drove a cab in New York for three years where, literally, 95% of the cab drivers are immigrants.”
    .
    More failure for Paul Blart mall cop and the Rev Jim

    The result of our public education system.

  • tilliswynette

    @27.2 allthingsaname

    Hell I dont need to speak for all Texas. I got Senator Cornyn and Senator Hutchison speaking for Texas just fine.
    And the Governor doesnt care for the Gays neither!

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Tillis, you wouldn’t last a day in NY.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “That translates to millions of people, with no background checks at all.”
    .
    Mother Theresa would have had to get a background check if she wanted to become an American. What part of your colon did you pull this idea that background checks would not occur in the future? This is 100% false. It is a right wing lie.
    .
    “So, the brother of one of these students, Jose the gang banger can then become a citizen.”
    .
    Since upon conviction for a felony , all legal and illegal immigrants are deported promptly, unless this is an extremely sophisticated gang banger with no criminal record, he would not even be in the US to be qualified. This Jose would have been back in, say, Guatemala by the time hist student brother starts school.
    .
    If this hypothetical Jose is so good at evading the law and not getting caught for any of his crimes, without the DREAM act, he would, also, be able to continue his crime spree.
    .
    Few criminals are that good and extremely few of them, other than, maybe Al Capone, could be called a “gang banger”.
    .
    “Reid and Obama and the rest of the spineless Democrats would sell their own mother down the river to get reelected.”
    .
    By bringing a small number of people who are unlikely to vote at all into the United States?
    .
    Obviously Democrats are not going to gain many votes for letting in a few young people and, we all know, the older one is in America, the more likely it is that they vote.
    .
    If you read the bill rather than looking inside your colon for the answers, you would know that they must have been dragged into the US by their parents when they were 0 to 15 years old, must have a clean criminal record and must either join the military or have two years of college completed.
    .
    “These students don’t even have to graduate, all they have to finish is 2 years of college.”
    .
    Unless it is an associate’s degree, two years of college is very expensive toilet paper. If one takes two years of college and stops, it usually means that the money ran out. Yet you presume that somebody would spend $10,000 to $100,000 for two years of college not to be able to be a better wage earner as a graduate, but, instead, to fool the US government.
    .
    You are very warped person.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Freakinpa’s biography:
    .
    Went to high school.
    .
    Started using meth.
    .
    Has spent last ten years in his mother’s basement getting high on meth, breaking promises and making paranoid right wing statements online 24/7/365.
    .
    Go to rehab, freak.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Freak,
    .
    Put down the meth pipe.
    .
    Go to rehab.
    .
    Stop posting.

  • allisonisa39e

    One thing one does not have to worry about. Is TIME conservative or Liberal. One side is responsible for all the things wrong with the Country and the Political scene. The other side is pure as the driven snow.

  • untalt

    What percentage of latino gang bangers are illegal? If you knew anything at all you would realize the number is huge .Apparently you have no idea what is going on in the cities that are infested with them. Try climbing out of your ivory tower and look around.
    Two years of college, they drop out, they get legalized. That makes sense to you?
    Don’t ignore the fact that their relatives then get priority over other LEGAL immigrants waiting in line like they are supposed to.

    How about they get rid of chain migration and birth citizenship before trying to legalize anyone? How about going back and fixing the Bill to require College graduation?
    The Bill as it stands is garbage.

  • fhmadvocat

    I have to admit I bought the “Honorable American” John McCain, hook, line and sinker a number of years ago. However, when he started changing his politcal positions, particularly changing his opposition to torture, I realized he was a typical politician, like most in Washington.

    Ironically, I remember talking to my best friend about John McCain during the last election. For context, I consider myself a Liberal, though I am probably “Conservative” on a number of economic issues. My best friend is a right winger all the way. He calls me a “Communist” and I ususally refer to his as a “Nazi”.

    Well, I was telling him how much I liked John McCain, but he knew I would vote for Obama. Interestingly, my friend did not have a high opinion on John McCain. Initially, I thought it was because of McCain’s “moderate” views on a number of issues, but I think it was because my friend, being a solid Republican knew alot more about John McCain than I did and he saw John McCain for the phony he was.

    BTW did we all forget that McCain was one of the original Keating Five?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Untalt,
    .
    “What percentage of latino gang bangers are illegal? If you knew anything at all you would realize the number is huge .Apparently you have no idea what is going on in the cities that are infested with them. Try climbing out of your ivory tower and look around.”
    .
    I have worked with immigrants all of my life.
    .
    I live in the Queens most ethnically diverse county in the United States.
    .
    The immigrants are here.
    .
    The gang bangers are in LA, Detroit, New Orleans, Philadelphia and Chicago.
    .
    NYC has the lowest crime rate of any major city in the US, yet, the most immigrants.
    .
    The gang bangers are Born in the USA.
    .
    I am in the heart of immigrant America.
    .
    Maybe if you got your head out of your ass you would know that communities with high percentages of immigrants are not the highest crime ones.
    .
    “Two years of college, they drop out, they get legalized. That makes sense to you?”
    .
    Citizenship and a metro card can get you a ride on the subway.
    .
    A four year degree adds over one million dollars to one’s lifetime earnings.
    .
    Only a moron would intentionally stop their education at citizenship.
    .
    “How about they get rid of chain migration and birth citizenship before trying to legalize anyone?”
    .
    If you want to get rid of birth citizenship, lets start with you. Get out of our country.
    .
    BTW: I am fourth generation American myself, but, I know my history. Every wave of immigration makes right wingers piss in their pants starting with the Irish, where most of my ancestry comes from.
    .
    Don’t tell me, you live on a farm out West and you know all about big city gang bangers because Glenn Beck and Michael Savage tell you all about them.
    .
    Go plant some crops and get your government checks and stop posting your bulls hit.

  • apr2563

    He must of felt the same about his first wife when he dumped her.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “A little basic research would have shown them that big cities with large immigrant populations are safer places to live.This is not just a matter of random correlation being mistaken for causation. A new study by sociologist Tim Wadsworth of the University of Colorado at Boulder carefully evaluates the various factors behind the statistics that show a massive drop in crime during the 1990s at a time when immigration rose dramatically. In a peer-reviewed paper appearing in the June 2010 issue of Social Science Quarterly, Wadsworth argues not only that “cities with the largest increases in immigration between 1990 and 2000 experienced the largest decreases in homicide and robbery,” which we knew, but that after considering all the other explanations, rising immigration “was partially responsible.”

    To deny that reality and ignore its implications is likely to make life more dangerous all over America, diverting resources away from the fight against violent crime and breaking down the hard-won trust between cops and the communities where they work. Several police chiefs tried to make exactly this point Wednesday on a visit to Washington to talk about the Arizona law, due to take effect in July, and the bad precedent it sets. “This is not a law that increases public safety. This is a bill that makes it much harder for us to do our jobs,” said Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck. “Crime will go up if this becomes law in Arizona or in any other state.””
    .
    http://www.newsweek.com/2010/05/27/reading-ranting-and-arithmetic.html
    .
    As I said, Untalt,
    .
    Remove your cranium from your rectum.
    .
    Look at facts.
    .
    Go back outside to your farm and feed your chickens.
    .
    Get big, fat, government check before whining about government some more.

  • untalt

    As for Arizona, after the law was approved illegals started leaving in droves without law enforcement have to do a thing.
    I call that a success, pansy.

  • illinidiva

    I think that the issue with the DREAM act is that college is somehow considered akin with serving in the military. I’m all for giving illegal immigrants who sign up for military service citizenship… Sign me up for that one. However, I’m not sure how going to college computes with serving in the military and possibly dying in Afghanistan. I know many people who spent their time at college binge drinking and smoking weed while getting degrees in womyn’s studies and other useless liberal arts degrees. Not really contributing to the America with those activities. Heck, the kids don’t even have to finish college; they only have to go to college for two years. So, basically what the DREAM act is saying that graduating high school with a 2.7 GPA, going to State Party U for two years using federal student loans, and ultimately dropping out when it gets too hard in your third year is akin to being shot for one’s adopted country.
    .
    If one must include college as a possibility, at least demand that the kids graduate and also spend a few years giving back to American society. For instance, a pre-med/ nursing student would be accepted if he/ she decides to spend time working in a poor community. Someone getting a business degree and wanting to work on Wall Street would not be accepted.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    I call it success when untalt leaves the state.

  • untalt

    Sounds like a better plan than what Pelosi and Reid came up with but first chain migration must be eliminated.
    The military option I have a little problem with because do we really want people to risk their lives for citizenship and not necessarily because they want to fight for the US? Do we want a mercenary army?
    Legal immgration also needs to be reconfigured towards needed skills and reduced to replacement numbers, and birth citizenship needs to be eliminated.
    This would be true immigration reform.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “So, basically what the DREAM act is saying that graduating high school with a 2.7 GPA, going to State Party U for two years using federal student loans, and ultimately dropping out when it gets too hard in your third year is akin to being shot for one’s adopted country.”
    .
    First, you need to be a citizen before you get student loans. So, those two years are the student living with parents working two years at Burger King, plus some assistance from parents to get those two years since state schools today go for about $15K a year.
    .
    Second, student loans only cover about $5k per year, so, Americans even work full time if their parents do not have the money.
    .
    So, it will most likely be a community college unless the parents were remarkably successful at working jobs with no green card, etc.
    .
    In both cases, that party, party, party will be fruit punch or whatever Mom and Dad allow you and your friends to drink while in their home.
    .
    Student loans have not covered the full cost of even state colleges since Reagan was in his first term.
    .
    “If one must include college as a possibility, at least demand that the kids graduate and also spend a few years giving back to American society. For instance, a pre-med/ nursing student would be accepted if he/ she decides to spend time working in a poor community.”
    .
    Nurses only need two years of college.
    .
    But two years of college- especially if it is a complete associates degree – shows that the person will be extremely likely to make at least $35k per year and be contributing to society.
    .
    Yes, I do agree that dodging bullets is far harder than flipping burgers and burning the midnight oil reading textbooks and memorizing things for biology class, but, if the student is putting their own way through, it isn’t exactly a free ride.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “…birth citizenship needs to be eliminated.”
    .
    Start that with yourself.
    .
    Get out of my country.

  • untalt

    Patrick,
    I would respond to your comments but for some reason mine go into moderation while you are able to spout off at will.
    So, I will ignore you like I ignore a gnat flying around.
    When your IQ reaches double digits let us know and you can rejoin the conversation.

  • http://swamplandblogs.wordpress.com jerryball

    ONE GIANT STEP FOR MANKIND …. Something should be said here regarding the overturning and repeal of DADT, a word or two in honor of Sergeant Matlovich, a Viet Nam Veteran awarded a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart who came out as a gay man and spent the rest of his life campaigning for gay rights to serve honorably in the military. His tombstone reads: NEVER AGAIN 6 July 1943, NEVER FORGET 22 June 1988, A GAY VIETNAM VETERAN … “WHEN I WAS IN THE MILITARY THEY GAVE ME A MEDAL FOR KILLING TWO MEN, AND A DISCHARGE FOR LOVING ONE.” Rest in peace now Sgt. Matlovich. You are remembered and honored today…. You won in the end and thank you for your generous service to the United States which you loved…. The United States need more heroes like you.

  • illinidiva

    “First, you need to be a citizen before you get student loans. So, those two years are the student living with parents working two years at Burger King, plus some assistance from parents to get those two years since state schools today go for about $15K a year.”
    .

    Well there are quite a few illegals going to college now and they are getting loans from somewhere and it isn’t mom and dad because mom and dad are likely working minimum wage jobs themselves. It’s mainly private loans, scholarships, but they also getting help from the gov’t ($15K is in-state tuition). A kid applying to a California school from Mexico would pay twice that in tuition.
    .

    “Second, student loans only cover about $5k per year, so, Americans even work full time if their parents do not have the money.”

    .
    There are loans other than FASB loans. Quite a few of my friends in grad school are financing their MBAs through student loans are about $100K in debt.

    .
    “In both cases, that party, party, party will be fruit punch or whatever Mom and Dad allow you and your friends to drink while in their home.”
    .
    Considering that Mom and Dad are probably not at home as they are likely working two jobs, there are probably no restrictions on what you can drink.
    .

    “Nurses only need two years of college”
    .

    RNs need four years of school plus a masters degree. The sort of “nurse” you’re talking about is qualified to make $10/ hour at a nursing home.
    .
    “But two years of college- especially if it is a complete associates degree – shows that the person will be extremely likely to make at least $35k per year and be contributing to society.”
    .
    First, they don’t even have to graduate to get the citizenship. Second, by contributing to society… I mean giving back to America above and beyond that of a normal citizen. Someone who chooses to put his or her life on the line in the military is clearly giving back to the U.S. For someone in civilian life means actually using one’s skills for the betterment of society.. For instance, working with Teach for America/ Peace Corp, agreeing to work as a doctor in the inner city, etc. I’d be willing to allow illegal immigrants who decide on these sorts of career paths to apply for citizenship.
    .

    However, answering phones in customer care for $13/ hour doesn’t strike me as going above and beyond to contribute to America. Frankly, it strikes me that the youth in question is still benefiting from America more than he or she is giving back to America. $13/ hour is probably much more than he/ she would have made if the family had stayed in Mexico.

  • http://swamplandblogs.wordpress.com jerryball

    tilliswynette: there ain’t nothin’ NORMAL about Texas. Too bad the secession didn’t take place, but Texas would go broke without all that free money from the rest of the country flowing into your state tills to make up for your hypocritical “no income tax” Welfare State. Not only that, your governor needs a new wig. That beehive look went out over 40 years ago.

  • untalt

    What I found the most ridiculous about DADT is that military that didn’t even appear in combat were removed from service, like translators and such, after finding out they were gay.
    Who gives a fig? What difference did it make? Educated people were removed from jobs they were performing well in simply because of their sexual orientation.
    Stupid policy.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Well there are quite a few illegals going to college now and they are getting loans from somewhere and it isn’t mom and dad because mom and dad are likely working minimum wage jobs themselves. It’s mainly private loans, scholarships, but they also getting help from the gov’t ($15K is in-state tuition). A kid applying to a California school from Mexico would pay twice that in tuition.”
    .
    So, you are saying that you go through college campuses checking for green cards and visas, or are you just pulling this out of your ass?
    .
    In order for a non-citizen to get a federal student loan, they would have to do so on stolen identity of an American. This would eventually result in very serious criminal charges.
    .
    “RNs need four years of school plus a masters degree. The sort of “nurse” you’re talking about is qualified to make $10/ hour at a nursing home.”
    .
    That’s about $25 per hour. My mother teaches chemistry at a community college and the school brags about how much their nurses make. But, then, again, this is in the NYC area. Maybe in places where lawyers make only $75 per hour two year nurses make only $10 per hour.
    .
    “First, they don’t even have to graduate to get the citizenship. Second, by contributing to society… I mean giving back to America above and beyond that of a normal citizen. Someone who chooses to put his or her life on the line in the military is clearly giving back to the U.S. For someone in civilian life means actually using one’s skills for the betterment of society.. For instance, working with Teach for America/ Peace Corp, agreeing to work as a doctor in the inner city, etc. I’d be willing to allow illegal immigrants who decide on these sorts of career paths to apply for citizenship.”
    .
    One of the two ideals is that they risk their lives for America.
    .
    The other is that they prove that they are productive especially if they are medically disqualified for the armed forces. I was even thought I couldn’t find a civilian doctor who could explain to me why since the Army made a mistake.
    .
    “There are loans other than FASB loans. Quite a few of my friends in grad school are financing their MBAs through student loans are about $100K in debt.”
    .
    Those are for graduate school only. I would gladly give my right arm to be qualified for that loan for my last year of college, but, as soon as I do finish, I will be qualified for such loans for law school.
    .
    Other student loans require that the parents own a house and that the house be used as collateral. I am intimately familiar with student loans. I have several close relatives who got the FASB loans and are paying it back.
    .
    “However, answering phones in customer care for $13/ hour doesn’t strike me as going above and beyond to contribute to America. Frankly, it strikes me that the youth in question is still benefiting from America more than he or she is giving back to America. $13/ hour is probably much more than he/ she would have made if the family had stayed in Mexico.”
    .
    The starting pay for that line of work, which I had done, is about $9 per hour in the NYC and Boston areas. This is below the regionally adjusted poverty rate for one person in either of those cities. You need one $9 per hour job 40 hours per week and a second one for 20 hours per week to inch forward.
    .
    This is not a huge prize. It may be better than being a peasant farmer in Guatemala, but, not that much better.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Untalt,
    .
    Please don’t be so stupid as to tell somebody in the most ethnically diverse county in the US which is, simultaneously, which is very low in crime that immigrants legal or illegal bring crimes.
    .
    I don’t tell you how to farm. So, don’t tell me that there are tough gangsters going up and down my street but they are invisible to me because people like Michael Savage and Glenn Beck tell you that immigrants bring crime.
    .
    So, get yourself to bed nice and early to go slop the pigs at 5:00.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    I’ve got to love how you can’t figure out what would put you in moderation, but then try to say that I am less intelligent than you are.

  • liberalmeltdown

    The only thing ironic is your misuse of the song…here you might as well learn it. Next time you might make sense.
    .
    Onward, Christian soldiers,
    Marching as to war.
    With the cross of Jesus
    Going on before!
    Christ, the royal Master,
    Leads against the foe;
    Forward into battle,
    See His banner go!
    .
    Onward, Christian soldiers,
    Marching as to war.
    With the cross of Jesus
    Going on before!
    .
    At the sign of triumph
    Satan’s host dost flee;
    On, then, Christian soldiers,
    On to victory!
    Hell’s foundations quiver
    At the shout of praise;
    Brothers, lift your voices,
    Loud your anthems raise!
    .
    Onward, Christian soldiers,
    Marching as to war.
    With the cross of Jesus
    Going on before!
    .
    Like a mighty army
    Moves the church of God;
    Brothers, we are treading
    Where the saints have trod;
    We are not divided;
    All one body we,
    One in hope and doctrine,
    One in charity.
    .
    Onward, Christian soldiers,
    Marching as to war.
    With the cross of Jesus
    Going on before!
    .
    Onward, then ye people,
    Join our happyy throng,
    Blend with ours your voices
    In the triumph song;
    Glory, laud, and honor,
    Unto Christ the King:
    This thro’ countless ages
    Men and angels sing.
    .
    Onward, Christian soldiers,
    Marching as to war.
    With the cross of Jesus
    Going on before!

  • liberalmeltdown

    Patrick, I think 20.8 pegged you well.
    .
    The 22% of evangelicals are Christians…part of the 88% NOT an additional 22% you dill weed.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    88% + 4% = 92%.
    .
    88% Christian (including Catholic and Evangelical).
    .
    4% Other.
    .
    12%….. Atheist?
    .
    You are still not able to figure out a simple math problem because your numbers either add up to 114% or 92% unless you have an explanation of who the last 12% are.
    .
    Jewish?

  • rdw56

    wow, a liberal scorned is worse than a woman scorned. Joe hates McCain now because McCain has no use for the MSM. He’s going to hate him a lot more. With a solid 40+ conservative Senators McConnell will be able to play the Dole role but with a more conservative bent. He will position himself as centrist while McCain plays the evil conservative. To McCains right will be DeMint. Reid has an impossible task. McCain as he’s done for more than a decade will be the deal maker. Except it won’t be to bypass Bush this time. It will be to bypass Obama

  • http://legalimmigrant.wordpress.com legalimmigrant

    There are people who have come here legally and are waiting for 10+ years to get their green cards. These immigrants follow all the rules, contribute to the innovation, pay taxes etc. Congress should focus on fixing the legal immigration system before taking up anything on immigration. Most of these people who are patiently waiting for 10 or more years are losing their patience and going back to their countries of origin as they are struggling to achieve American dream. This will be great loss to the US economy as these innovators start their companies in China and India which directly compete with the US companies. I hope Congress and President will focus on fixing the legal immigration system as a priority.

  • apr2563

    Liberalmeltdown: I know the lyrics to “Onward Christian Soldiers” very well. And, they mean exactly what I implied.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    ..”.40 percent of active duty personnel are evangelical Christians. Sixty percent of taxpayer-funded military chaplains are evangelical…”
    .
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4772331
    .

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    25% to 30% of the military is Catholic
    .
    http://www.mccw-worldwide.org/files/chaplains.pdf
    .
    On page 2 third paragraph.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Jews make up only two tenths of one percent
    of US Armed Forces.”
    .
    http://www.aztlan.net/jewsusarmedforces.htm

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “The Defense Department reported 3,409 Muslims on active military duty as of April 2008, but officials said the number could be at least three times higher.”
    .
    http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2009/ss_military0876_11_10.asp
    .
    Still less than 1%.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “In a 2008 study of U.S. military members it was found that members of the military are less likely to be Christian than the general U.S. population.

    The US general population is currently 80% Christian, while, according to the study, the military services (combined) are about 77% Christian. It’s still a large majority, though.

    About 22 percent of the military claim “no religion/secular”, 77% are Christian of various faiths, and about 1 percent is made up of other religions, such as Jewish, Wiccan, Hindu and Muslim.

    A large reason for this is because fewer young adults are Christian/religious than older generations, and men (the majority of the military) are less likely to be Christian than women.”
    .
    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091002171231AAHfoGz
    .
    But Yahoo answers is weak.
    .

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “The last survey of student opinion found that of the 4,400 cadets, 85 percent were Christian of one kind or another, 2 percent were declared atheists, 1.5 percent were Jewish, 0.4 percent Muslim, 0.3 percent Hindu, and—note this—9.3 percent either indicated no allegiance or identified themselves as “other.” ”
    .
    http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/12/hitchens-theocracy-200912
    .
    So, Catholics and Jews, for the most part, usually can compartmentalize both homosexuality as a sin while, also, treating gays as equals.
    .
    In other words, religion should not have any impact on DADT.
    .
    But, it also shows that meltdown is mathematically impaired.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    I was in moderation for having too many links to one post and had to break it up that way.
    .
    That, however, is how you document facts online, meltdown.
    .
    You either find one reliable source or multiple reliable sources which answer a portion of your question and have a link to them.
    .
    Damn, Meltdown is not just a right wing troll, he isn’t any good at it.
    .
    I have to show you how to be an annoying right wing troll well.
    .
    I should be asking you for tuition, meltdown.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “wow, a liberal scorned is worse than a woman scorned. Joe hates McCain now because McCain has no use for the MSM.”
    .
    John, Mr Sunday Morning, McCain doesn’t need the MSM?
    .
    rdw, have you ever traveled to the United States to see what life is like here or do you just watch Fox and listen to Glenn Beck, Limbaugh and Michael Savage on your home planet?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “I hope Congress and President will focus on fixing the legal immigration system as a priority.”
    .
    It shouldn’t be an either/or situation if we fix complications and slow downs with legal immigration or just illegal immigration.
    .
    Unfortunately, there is one major thing slowing down this process: the Republican lead filibuster in the Senate.
    .
    I hope we can streamline the process for the vast majority of immigrants who do go through all of the correct channels yet get snagged in slow moving bureaucracy.

  • rdw56

    Patrick, many ideologues could travel the entire USA and never see it. Like you. Not the 1st time you accused people who disagree with you of getting their news from Beck and exclusively right wing outlets. And where do you make this accusation? On the blogs of Time magazine, a left wing outlet. Worst, usually on one of Joe Klein’s postings. He is at least as far left as Limbaugh is right. How dumb are you? .

  • rdw56

    what Klein is doing here is being preemptive. He is terrified of how much damage someone who has caved out a long resume of Senate leadership outside the heirarchy using coalitions. McCain has an awful lot of power he can exercise in a number of ways including as Jesse Helms did. This is going to come into play as we get much deeper into the spending side of the budget process. McCain is going to take a cleaver to dozens of liberal pet projects such as NPR, NEH, PBS, etc. The best they can hope for is a freeze Helms lowered funding for the UN. Given the surge in the economies of the 3rd world it’s time for them to step up their funding. MCain will eliminate all funding for global warming and all human rights issues given UN corruption and lower out contribution by at least 50%.

    It’s a good time to be McCain. A lifelong spending hawk he is perfectly positioned. Like Helms he has no ambitions for higher office and thus can use the MSM to his advantage. He has a lifetime invitation on all of the Sunday shows. You are going to see a lot of him and he’ll never be on you side

  • rdw56

    Patrick,

    There is not going to be any movement on amnesty until the border is secured. That’s been McCains message all along. Congress made promises to do so in1986 and then did nothing. In a post-9/11 world nothing isn’t an option and they’re not trusted. There will soon be 40 solid conservative votes for a filibuster so legislation will be impossible. What enrages Joe is McCain gets it. Bait and switch is off the table. They can’t just fund the fence. It has to be built. We have to see it. The nest two cycles all bu guarrantee the GOP will pick up Senate seats and the conservative core remain entrenched. Amnesty is dead.

  • 3xfire3

    rdw,
    .
    You nailed it.

  • 3xfire3

    rdw,
    .
    Patrick is very happy that Congress extended his unemployment benefits. This means he can continue to post on Swampland full time. Great life huh.

  • libertarianhawk

    So….what exactly defines an “honorable” conservative? One that agrees with you enough to gain such consideration?

    I get really tired of this kind of language. It’s like listening to conservative hacks talk about Joe Lieberman — “sure, he’s a liberal — but he’s an honorable one.”

    So Russ Feingold is dishonorable?

    Look, if you want to say that John McCain is unprincipled, you’ll get no argument from me. I’d say his record clearly demonstrates as much. But is it asking too much leave the impugning out of it?

    We get it: you support the DREAM Act and other such kinds of amnesty for illegal immigrants. Great. But there’s nothing dishonorable about either supporting or opposing it.

    Jim DeMint is a staunch conservative — but is apparently still honorable. Russ Feingold is every bit as staunch a liberal — and every bit as honorable.

    Charlie Rangel and Tom DeLay, on the other hand, are clearly dishonorable. You’re supposed to be a professional, Joe. Leave that kind of garbage to the bloggers.

  • dwimby

    Good riddance DREAM Act! What a scam. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of all amnesty wet-dreams, no matter how the lead con-men in congress try to pretty things up. The DREAM Act was bogus from top to bottom. It’s time to get serious about processing out the illegal nation within. Such a status could not even exist in Latin America, certainly not Mexico, so why here!

  • louanw

    I am wondering why my post is in moderation – no cuss words, no bashing, no in your face message – can anyone explain why?

  • libertarianhawk

    I disagree that this has been McCain’s point all along. He certainly didn’t sound that way in 2006.

    That said, I agree with you that the only conceivable path forward on immigration reform is one that begins by assuring people that we’ve genuinely done all we reasonably can to stanch the flow of illegal immigrants across the border.

    I don’t know why more supporters of immigration reform aren’t amenable to that idea.

  • ohsuzanna

    Amen to that!

  • libertarianhawk

    I couldn’t agree more. Whatever we do to fix our immigration problem, it most certainly cannot reward fence-jumpers over those who have followed all the rules.

    It seems obvious that we need to streamline the (legal) immigration process. In addition, I wouldn’t have a problem with hiking the rate of citizenship, not to mention extended work visas.

    But I cannot ever support a piece of legislation which takes somebody here illegally — and, sadly, that must include the children brought here illegally — being fast-tracked in any manner.

    I fully support them having a “path to citizenship” — but it must start with them complying with the rules and going to the back of the line.

  • rdw56

    They’re not amendable because they think they get a big political advantage with hispanic minorities and they think that’s going to create huge electoral majorities for them in the future. They’re wrong since minority birth rates are falling as fast as white birth rates once did and among whites religious types have higher birthrates than blacks and all but 1st generation hispanics. This dream act was pure partisan politics.

  • brooklineobserver

    You’re right on both issues, Joe, but let’s face it, McCain has always been fraud, building his ID as a “maverick” to stand out from his party and raise his profile. When he saw how much it had cost him in home state support–especially after his disastrous and embarrassing 2008 campaign–he reverted to what he is now (and has always been). His legacy is his hypocrisy and Sarah Palin, and he will not be treated well by history.

    Hatch, on the other hand, no longer has Ted Kennedy sitting on his left shoulder calling forth his better angels, and he has to look no further than to Bob Bennett’s fate to realize what lies ahead as he runs for re-election.

  • rdw56

    McCain will do very well by history with his very long and eventful career in the Senate much of it in leadership positions. He has 6 more years and is the master of the rules and coalitions. He’s in a great positions.

  • davidvenice

    John McCain has compromised his principals and integrity so often that he now has to check his driver’s license before he signs his name. He is only a faint shadow of the man he used to be.

  • olderamericansoldier

    The military has already allowed immigrants a fast track to citizenship by serving in the military. This was a slap in the face to the 13,000 legal Americans born in this country who were discharged under DADT. Not to mention the ones who left the military after a first enlistment because of fear or having to lie in uniform about their sexual orientation. Right now, in December 2010, the military is filling their quotas with legal citizens because of the poor job market and current economy. I live in California and I taught a local community college. It’s terribly unfair to allow illegal immigrants a chance to attend a top rated, UC college, over an American citizen. Illegal immigration drains our economy, clogs our highway systems, bankrupts our hospitals, and creates over 6 hour wait times in emergency rooms. If you’re older than 40 you would have experienced the pre and post Cesar Chavez period. When illegal immigrants found a loophole in the U.S. Constitution and stayed here with their anchor babies, it created a huge, economical problem for this country. There were no issues when immigrants, mostly male, came here as seasonal workers and returned to Mexico and South America with their paychecks to help their families before 1970. Now they want everything belonging to a U.S. citizen. Stand in line and come here the right way!

  • http://mulewax.wordpress.com mulewax

    I just assume that he is doing whatever Palin tells him to do so that he can run as her VP. Or at least that what she is telling him while she is eyeing Bachman or O’Donnell for the spot. But any ticket with her and her VP pick would be quite the Anti-Intellectual Curiosity Express.

  • untalt

    >
    Untalt,
    .
    Please don’t be so stupid as to tell somebody in the most ethnically diverse county in the US which is, simultaneously, which is very low in crime that immigrants legal or illegal bring crimes.
    .
    I don’t tell you how to farm. So, don’t tell me that there are tough gangsters going up and down my street but they are invisible to me because people like Michael Savage and Glenn Beck tell you that immigrants bring crime.
    .
    So, get yourself to bed nice and early to go slop the pigs at 5:00.<

    The US is low in crime? Sure, compared to Mexico and the rest of latin America.
    I have never heard anyone refer to the US as having a low crime rate before, perhaps you are living in a bubble?
    In addition, you pseudo elitist, I already said I grew up in NY and lived in LA. I know what I see-I see immigrant gangs, I see immigrants moving into neighborhoods that were once liveable and ruin them. Thuird World immigrants do not know how to function in a Western society. They are dragging this country into third world status with jackwads like you speeding up the process.

  • untalt

    Absolutely. I hope you are part of the process of stopping amnesty wherever it rears its ugly head .
    http://www.numbersusa.com
    Join the team

  • untalt

    Dude, you’re making too much sense.
    Patrick must be having a coronary trying to process it and come up with a moronic reply.

  • winski

    So Grampy McSame, after the shortened year-end-year-long break Grampy seems to need to stretch his legs, get some more half-bourbon/half-eggnog punch so he can get out there and take that 100 yard long hike in his backyard desert… He showing his crankiest self this season… NO ONE, save Cindy and Meagan, will miss him..

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “The US is low in crime? ”
    .
    Who said that?
    .
    Maybe a right winger said that, I didn’t.
    .
    It is true that citywide our crime rate is down to the levels of it was in 1960 but I am not speaking of anyplace else.
    .
    “I have never heard anyone refer to the US as having a low crime rate before, perhaps you are living in a bubble?”
    .
    I live in Queens.
    .
    “In addition, you pseudo elitist,”
    .
    Queens is elitist? I guess the Bronx must really sound super elitist to you.
    .
    ” I already said I grew up in NY and lived in LA. I know what I see-I see immigrant gangs,”
    .
    You lived here 20 years ago but can still see New York and LA from where you live but while I live in New York you are telling me that I can not see out my window, that I can not see on the streets, I can not hear that nobody has shot a gun in my neighborhood in the five years I have been here that the sirens are for ambulances for old people and not police?
    .
    “I see immigrants moving into neighborhoods that were once liveable and ruin them. Thuird World immigrants do not know how to function in a Western society. They are dragging this country into third world status with jackwads like you speeding up the process.”
    .
    You went from NYC in 1975 to LA until 1985 and, from Kansas you can see what is happening in NYC and LA right now?
    .
    Please. I am here at this very moment!
    .
    I live on the first floor. I do most of my work from home. I leave my home five or six times a day. If the police are called, I hear the sirens. If I building starts decaying due to lack of care, I am a Commercial Realtor.
    .
    I know nothing about LA.
    .
    Maybe LA sucks. Maybe that is why immigrants to NY work in stores and go to city colleges and why in LA they become gang bangers.
    .
    Maybe LA isn’t as bad as you make it sound, but, I know what I see. I know what I read.
    .
    You’re not even using links.
    .
    You are full of crap!

  • rdw56

    I disagree that this has been McCain’s point all along. He certainly didn’t sound that way in 2006.

    *************************

    Quite right. I mean the post-presidential career of McCain where he admitted cozying up to the MSM was a mistake and while campaigning learning exactly what people want regarding the fence. He had his epiphany fairly soon after he lost. He returned to his conservative roots and Joe has had no use for him ever since. He he’s alarmed. He saw what McCain did to Bush and sees the same possibility now. Except this time he’s not trying to please the MSM. McCain can do things McConnell and Demint can’t.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    John McCain has frequently been on Sunday Morning talk shows.
    .
    Sunday Morning talk shows are MSM.
    .
    Joe Klien – a political moderate and a reporter, not a commentator – has nothing to with John McCain being on Sunday morning news programs.

  • rdw56

    Maybe but he’s also a very senior Senator well versed and practiced in the ways of the Senate. Joe gets it. This man is dangerous to the liberal agenda. He will be a bulldog on spending.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    rdw56.
    .
    “There is not going to be any movement on amnesty until the border is secured.”
    .
    Securing boarders:
    .
    Great Wall of China failed to prevent invasions.
    .
    Berlin Wall failed.
    .
    The walls separating Catholic and Protestant neighborhoods of Northern Ireland failed (a joint government is succeeding and plans to remove walls are in the making).
    .
    There are 1,969 miles of border.
    .
    If you want one person on duty every 1,000 feet, that would be 10,397 people per shift.
    .
    With 8.760 hours per year and 2,000 hours per worker per year that would be 4.38 workers per post for 24 hour protection.
    .
    In total that would be 45,408 guards.
    .
    At a reasonable pay of $50,000 per year plus $10,000 in benefits would be $2, 724 ,480 ,000 and that does not include training, equipment and supervisory staff.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Patrick is very happy that Congress extended his unemployment benefits.”
    .
    3X,
    .
    Since you were never a CEO or business owner, you didn’t know that every August and every mid December until MLK day there is a huge lag in commercial real estate.
    .
    I received partial unemployment benefits while, legally working part time, too for over a year after 9/11 when your buddy GWB was ruining the economy.
    .
    I have about a dozen emails to send out today, but, outside of that, the business cycle is very slow from about December 18 through January 15th.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “This was a slap in the face to the 13,000 legal Americans born in this country who were discharged under DADT. Not to mention the ones who left the military after a first enlistment because of fear or having to lie in uniform about their sexual orientation.”
    .
    So, you are saying that somebody who was brought here as a young child serving in the military now, when gays can serve openly is a slap in the face to gays in the military?
    .
    I am aware that many gays fought as bravely and heroically as straight soldiers, but, what does allowing somebody who came here at, to pick an average between 0 and 16, 8 years old by his or parents a chance to serve get hurt by this?
    .
    “It’s terribly unfair to allow illegal immigrants a chance to attend a top rated, UC college, over an American citizen.”
    .
    If California allows illegal aliens to study in public schools that is wrong.
    .
    New York nor any state in the Northeast does.
    .
    Giving special preference in California to illegal immigrants would be extra wrong.
    .
    However, you need to go onto a California state blog about something that has nothing to do with the federal Dream Act.
    .
    The DREAM act does none of those things.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    It’s a mystery to me unless you use more than two links.
    .
    If you use more than two links, the automated system presumes that you are selling T shirts or are some other kind of advertiser and blocks you.
    .
    Other than that….

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Wow!
    .
    I just said why I didn’t know why you were in moderation and it put me in moderation.

  • shepherdwong

    I used to know a different John McCain…
    .
    Classic way of admitting (without admitting error) that the John McCain he thought he knew never actually existed.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Moderation at random is happening!

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    untalt,
    .
    In my very, very immigrant dominated neighborhood, I see the police every day.
    .
    They come here to buy coffee and get lunch during all three shifts.
    .
    Cyprus Hills, Brooklyn, the opposite end of where my precinct serves, which has far, far fewer immigrants the 102nd precinct does deal with an occasional gang banger, but, those are Made in America gang bangers.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “There are an estimated half million illegal entries into the United States each year.”
    .
    This is a fairly small number compared to the total number of illegal immigrants.
    .
    “The illegal immigrant population of the United States in 2008 was estimated by the Center for Immigration Studies to be about 11 million people, down from 12.5 million people in 2007.[2] Other estimates range from 7 to 20 million.[3] According to a Pew Hispanic Center report, in 2005, 56% of illegal immigrants were from Mexico; 22% were from other Latin American countries, primarily from Central America;[4] 13% were from Asia; 6% were from Europe and Canada; and 3% were from Africa and the rest of the world.”
    .
    Half a million out of as many as 20 million means that securing the Mexican border with billions of dollars would cut down between one in 14 to one 40 illegal immigrants.
    .

  • lilaland

    The start treaty needs to be above political games. Good Lord, Senator Lugar, one of the most respected and intelligen­t republican­s in the senate helped write the bill. The most respected republican­s who understand our military institutio­ns and foreign relations back this bill. From HW Bush who was the head of our CIA before he became president to Powell and countless other Reagan republican­s back the treaty. The republican­s blocking it do it solely out of political motivation and that seems not only unethical but diabolical and evil. They are willing to put national security with serious bipartitio­n support from the highest places and best minds behind their own piss-ant games. I find it beyond repulsive.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Just after I started responding to you it happened to me.
    .
    Wordpress is automated.
    .
    It once took me twenty minutes of Google searching to find a human being (who worked in sales and could do nothing) who would answer the phone.

  • rdw56

    Patrick,

    The Berlin Wall was a huge success. Just as the wall between Israel and the West Bank and with Gaza is a huge success as is the fence between Turkey and Syria, Gitmo and Cuba and two dozen other nations. The fence is a no brainer and it is going to happen. There won’t be amnesty until AFTER it happens. We have our largest house majorities of the last 60 years and we’ll have a filibuster proof Senate for at least 6 years.

    This would have been true more than a year ago. With the emergence of drug gangs in Mexico we have another reason for enhanced security.

  • rdw56

    If you want one person on duty every 1,000 feet, that would be 10,397 people per shift.

    ***************************************

    Why on earth would we want something like this? Ever hear of sensors? Drones?

  • http://psydneyh.wordpress.com psydneyh

    At last. Someone wants to talk about the DREAM Act instead of bashing Sen. McCain. The DREAM Act was very poorly drafted. It had loopholes which would have greatly increased fraud. Those that were legalized would start a chain immigration. The final result would be, like the 1986 amnesty, a big increase in legalization and a parallel increase in illegal immigration. I realize that there are those that think, So What? The more the merrier, open the gates, let everybody in that wants to come, national borders are obsolete. I don’t.

  • np042

    Hide you kids, hide your wife, cause they’re moderatin’ everybody in here!

  • http://crunchman01.wordpress.com crunchman01

    Joe Klein nailed it. Puerile and feckless, John McCain is constantly proving that he is not only a poor excuse for a U.S. Senator, but that he is really about as Un-American as a person could be. America was not meant to be driven by people who have a deep seated hatred and loathing for We the People. Instead he is a symbol of mindless, unreasoning hatred, xenophobia and corporate greed.

    Wake up John MCain and remember why you hold an elected office. You are there for the betterment of our country, it’s not “all about John McCain”.

  • rdw56

    Joe klein is a far left liberal and he writes opinion pieces.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Joe klein is a far left liberal and he writes opinion pieces.”
    .
    I’ve got to love your debating style…
    .
    rdw56 thinking “maybe if I say ‘no it’s not’ or say the same thing again and again it means I win. Here we go ‘Joe klein is a far left liberal and he writes opinion pieces.’ I guess I’m winning”.
    .
    You still have not explained why you call him far left and more importantly, how John McCain being constantly on MSM TV programs why Joe would be upset with McCain supposedly snubbing MSM not to mention why Joe would care one way or another about other parts of the MSM?
    .
    IOW you’re an idiot.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Why on earth would we want something like this? Ever hear of sensors? Drones?”
    .
    Sensors are only worthwhile if you have somebody within a few minutes to respond to them.
    .
    Drones? You mean that you want to blow them up with missiles?
    .
    So far no technology has ever come close to manpower on the ground especially for securing an area.

  • tdelacruz

    The President could right away solve much of the problem the DREAM act sought to address by just directing the Secretary of Defense to use the authority he already has under 10 USC 504(b)(2) to enlist illegal aliens meeting the DREAM Act requirements (e.g., entered the U.S. under age 16 and high school grad). The Secretary of Defense would just have to find that enlistment of such aliens is “vital to the national interest.” We didn’t need the DREAM Act to let such kids enlist (and immediately become citizens); the Defense Department could do this any time it likes.

  • liberalmeltdown

    I doubt that you know what you are talking about April.

    “Onward, Christian Soldiers” is a 19th century English hymn. The words were written by Sabine Baring-Gould in 1865, and the music was composed by Arthur Sullivan in 1871. Sullivan named the tune “St. Gertrude,” after the wife of his friend Ernest Clay Ker Seymer, at whose country home he composed the tune.[1][2] The Salvation Army adopted the hymn as its favoured processional.[3] The hymn’s theme is taken from references in the New Testament to the Christian being a soldier for Christ, for example II Timothy 2:3 (KJV): “Thou shalt endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.”
    Contents
    [hide]

    * 1 Early history
    * 2 Later history
    * 3 In popular culture
    * 4 References
    o 4.1 Notes
    o 4.2 Bibliography
    * 5 External links

    [edit] Early history

    The lyric was written as a processional hymn for children walking from Horbury Bridge, where Baring-Gould was curate, to Horbury St Peter’s Church near Wakefield, Yorkshire, at Whitsuntide in 1865. It was originally entitled, “Hymn for Procession with Cross and Banners.”[4] According to the Center for Church Music, Baring-Gould reportedly wrote “Onward, Christian Soldiers” in about 15 minutes, later apologizing, “It was written in great haste, and I am afraid that some of the lines are faulty.”[5] He later allowed hymn-book compilers to alter the lyrics. For example, The Fellowship Hymn Book, with his permission, changed the phrase “one in hope and doctrine” to “one in hope and purpose.” For the 1909 edition of Hymns Ancient and Modern, he changed the fifth line of the same verse from “We are not divided” to “Though divisions harass.” However, Baring-Gould’s original words are used in most modern hymnals.

    Baring-Gould originally set the lyrics to a melody from the slow movement of Joseph Haydn’s Symphony in D, No. 15. This was printed in 1871 in an English church periodical, the Church Times. The hymn did not receive wide acceptance, however, until Sullivan wrote the tune “St. Gertrude” for it. Sullivan re-used the tune in his Boer War Te Deum, first performed in 1902, after Sullivan’s death. Another hymn sung to the St. Gertrude tune is “Forward Through the Ages”, written by Frederick Lucian Hosmer (1840–1929) in 1908.[6]
    [edit] Later history

    When Winston Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt met in 1941 on the battleship HMS Prince of Wales to agree the Atlantic Charter, a church service was held for which Prime Minister Churchill chose the hymns. He chose “Onward, Christian Soldiers” and afterwards made a radio broadcast explaining this choice:[7]

    We sang “Onward, Christian Soldiers” indeed, and I felt that this was no vain presumption, but that we had the right to feel that we serving a cause for the sake of which a trumpet has sounded from on high. When I looked upon that densely packed congregation of fighting men of the same language, of the same faith, of the same fundamental laws, of the same ideals … it swept across me that here was the only hope, but also the sure hope, of saving the world from measureless degradation.
    —Winston Churchill

    The song has been sung at many funerals, including at the funeral of American president Dwight D. Eisenhower at the National Cathedral, Washington, DC, March 1969.[8] Apart from its obvious martial associations, the song has been associated with protest against the established order, as in the cases of civil rights[9] and the attempts to outlaw chiropractry[10].

    An attempt was made in 1986 to strip “Onward, Christian Soldiers” from the United Methodist Hymnal due to perceived militarism. Outrage among church goers caused the committee to back down.[11] However, the hymn was not included in the 1990 hymnal of the Presbyterian Church (USA).[12] The Spiritualists’ National Union hymnbook has a variation on the hymn, entitled “Onward, Comrades, Onward”.
    [edit] In popular culture

    Largely because of its association with missionaries of various types, the song is sung in a number of movies and television programmes. The 1939 film, Stanley and Livingstone, depicts Dr David Livingstone (played by Sir Cedric Hardwicke) spiritedly leading a choir of African people in this anthem; Henry M. Stanley is played by Spencer Tracy in the movie. The piece appears in several other films, including Major Barbara, Mrs. Miniver, A Canterbury Tale, The Russians Are Coming, the Russians Are Coming, M*A*S*H, Taps, Striptease, Walker, Androcles and the Lion, and Flyboys. It is also sung or played in episodes of TV series, including Little House on the Prairie, The Simpsons, Little Britain and Dad’s Army.

    Onward Christian Soldiers is the title of a 1984 album and song by the British anarcho-punk band Icons of Filth.[13] In the book Sins of the Assassin by Robert Ferrigno, the song is the national anthem of the fictional Bible Belt. In Christopher Webber’s 1993 play Dr Sullivan and Mr Gilbert, the hymn is used with new words about Sullivan’s rise to fame, and the artistic compromises that entailed.

    The hymn’s tune has been used as the basis for many parodies, including Lloyd George Knew My Father[14] and Like a mighty tortoise, / Moves the Church of God; / Brothers, we are treading / Where we’ve always trod.[15]

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “…like the 1986 amnesty…”
    .
    Finally! It is a conservative who admits that Reagan’s policies would not match up with today’s conservatism in some things, such as immigration!
    .
    psydneyh, you have some consistency and you are conservative!
    .
    “It had loopholes which would have greatly increased fraud.”
    .
    I wish you were specific because, nobody appreciates fraud. Better yet, if those loopholes were the problem, then removing them should make the bill palatable to conservatives.
    .
    “The final result would be, like the 1986 amnesty, a big increase in legalization and a parallel increase in illegal immigration.”
    .
    Please send a link to a source stating that this has happened and, more importantly, that there is a cause and effect.

  • http://rantcaster.wordpress.com/ rantcaster

    McCain’s selection of Palin was the clearest indication to me that he is not mentally competent to serve in high elected office. McCain had a deservedly sterling reputation as a military hero, a man of true grit. All that legacy has now been wiped away by his craven pandering to the right. What a great shame.

  • jrrrrrr

    Liberal double standards

    Liberal Standard #1 it isn’t fair to hold Hispanic children responsible for the acts of their illegal immigrant parents.

    Liberal Standard #2 white children, on the other hand, should be sent to the back of the opportunity bus whenever possible because of slavery and just never mind when they were born nor in what economic circumstances.

    If ever there was a perfect example of the double standards created by racist liberal color judgments, this is it and nobody says a word. Sheer unmitigated racist liberals compromising the futures of millions of innocent children because liberals are too stupid to tell the difference between a stereotype and a human being and the media can’t even say one word about this glaring racist hypocrisy. My contempt for the American media is total.

  • rdw56

    Joe is liberal because every single one of his positions is liberal. That’s every single one. Look at the last 50 posts on this Time blog. They’re all pro-liberal anti-democrat. Joe was a Clinton groupie before he was an Obama groupie and in between he was a Gore groupie.

    As far as McCain on the Sunday shows that’s part of Joe’s problem and the reason for the post. Where McCain going after Bush was sweetness and light going after Obama is pure evil. He seeks to diminish McCain. The lesson McCain learned is something all good football coaches learn. You start listening to the press or the fans you end up sitting next to them. McCain now understands the MSM can’t help him or hurt him but he can use them nonetheless. He can go on the Sunday shows or any for the matter and make his case bypassing Joe Klein.

  • rdw56

    Drone scan patrol many miles of fence at a time and see if a rat crosses over. If it sees something the drone alerts it’s controller and they take a closer look using the drone’s camera’s. If they are clearly illegals you have film evidence for deportation hearings and you can dispatch a unit to arrest them.

    There is no reason for the drone to be armed in any way.

  • rdw56

    Patrick,

    One of the great breakthroughs of the internet was in defeating the MSM monoploy on war reporting. Actually any reporting. The reason Bush was able to demand the surge is because he had control of the facts on the ground and Joe Klein could do nothing. The embeds did a spectacular job reporting running circles around Joe. One of the more famous is very well known and respected on the right, Michael Yon. Wrote about a visit Joe made to an outpost near Fallujah after it has been conquered. He was there the entire time and filed a series of reports including video. The Marines were fabulous. they went after Al Qaeda nonstop and won a total victory. Joe came in two weeks after the fact for a 45 minute visit by copter on an arranged ‘tour’ and never moved more than 100 yards from the Copter.

    You for example have no idea of the tactical brilliance of the surge. You almost certainly think it was about adding 20K troops and doing the same think. It was a total change in tactics designed around a very aggressive kill campaign with a dedicated core collecting intelligence and more than 3.000 troops dedicated solely to nightly search and kill misisons. Each might Petraeus dispatched between a dozen to 3 dozen units out on missions to seek and destroy Al Qaeda. That’s every night. Petraeus will go down in history as one of our greatest tactical Generals and will match Patton for his focus on offense.

    I have to give Obama credit. He’s given Petraeus a green light in AfPac and we are getting very good at using drones and special forces to kill. That’s how wars are won.

  • http://ethanolforfire.wordpress.com rtomo

    I watched my father descent into old-age dementia and it was a very sad time for our family. But at least it was private.
    I feel sorry for Meghan McCain who will now watch her father take this long, slow and painful journey in public.

  • http://markpkessinger.wordpress.com markpkessinger

    Liberalmeltdown posts the lyrics of the hymn, “Onward, Christian Soldiers. He might appreciate this rewrite of verse 3, shared with me by a dear friend, an Episcopal priest. From what he tells me, the rewrite was a favorite among seminarians at Seabury-Western:

    Like a mighty tortoise
    moves the Church of God;
    Brothers, we are treading
    where we’ve always trod!
    We are all divided,
    many bodies we;
    Long on law and doctrine,
    short on charity!

    Onward Christian soldiers . . .[etc.]

  • http://markpkessinger.wordpress.com markpkessinger

    Oops, sorry, liberalmeltdown. I posted the rewrite of that hymn before I noticed you had already referenced it.

  • http://markpkessinger.wordpress.com markpkessinger

    “Let’s not forget that he is truly an American hero (as were his father and grandfather) regardless of the useless war in which he served.”

    He was a failed fighter pilot who crashed two planes before getting shot down in the third. Any other pilot would have lost his wings, but McCain’s influential father made sure that didn’t happen to his boy. Yes, his time as a prisoner was a heroic sacrifice that deserves to be honored. But it does not give him a pass to be a self-serving jerk for the rest of his career. Nor does his service of over 40 years ago qualify him as an expert on what is best for the military today.

  • http://markpkessinger.wordpress.com markpkessinger

    Can we please just allow Texas to secede and leave the rest of us to civilization?

  • nick1936

    do you think he took it up the ass while at the Hanoi Hilton???

  • http://markpkessinger.wordpress.com markpkessinger

    Cut us a break with your absurd, “white children are disadvantaged” because we, as a society, have made efforts to level the playing field for historically disadvantaged minorities. Save it for you Klan meeting.

  • http://markpkessinger.wordpress.com markpkessinger

    Indeed. There is no “moderate wing” of today’s Republican party, and very little left of the “liberal” wing of the Democratic party. In the historical context of American political ideology, today’s Democratic party is solidly in the center, while the GOP has gone over a rightward cliff.

  • http://markpkessinger.wordpress.com markpkessinger

    John McCain crossed party lines out of bitterness over the way Bush, et al. slandered him in the 2000 primary. So, for several years following, being a “maverick” was his way to spite W. Since the 2008 election, he has reversed himself on dozens of positions merely because such reversals will allow him to be on the opposite side of the man who beat him for the Presidency­­. When he needed to redeem himself following the Keating Five scandal, he suddenly became a proponent of campaign finance reform; yet years later, when it was politicall­­y expedient to do so, he reversed himself.

    I’m sorry, but there is no “old John McCain” as opposed to a “new John McCain.” There is only John McCain. Who is old.

  • jrrrrrr

    Just like a liberal….MarkpKissinger can’t refute the civil rights argument that the stereotype of rich, privileged, racist, ex slaving whites is the ONLY basis for affirmative action, so he plays the race card. Look in the mirror, the only real difference between liberal color judgments and the color judgments of the KKK is the color of their targets.

    Think outside of stereotypes for a minute and realize that stereotype ridden liberals are claiming that they can use opportunities based on irrelevant color differences to magically “equalize’” the children of white waiters, store clerks and truck drivers with the children of black waiters, store clerks and truck drivers. Just because liberal racists don’t want to admit that for EVERY black preference there is a corollary white discrimination doesn’t make white discrimination disappear, nor does it make a color judgment derived loss of opportunity any less racist, nor does it resolve the hostility caused by AmeriKKKa’s perpetually institutionalized color judgments.

    The REAL lesson of history is that color differences are politically as well as socially irrelevant, because no one can omnisciently determine everyone’s exact bank account total, or everyone’s potential lifetime earning totals with a simpleminded glance at color differences. Yet, because the racist liberal majority was too stupid to ever figure that out, history will be repeated. Sure the constant liberal media race cards silence the hostility, but they won’t end it and one day…boom…where did all that violence come from…again.

    And all the media ever had to say at any point in American history, was color differences REALLY ARE irrelevant. But did they…no, too stupid and so proud of being stupid, they’ve supported racial preferences since the Constitution was signed, pretending then and pretending now, just as you do, Mark, that the corollary racial discrimination necessary to all forms of racial preferences is either non-existent or a big social benefit.

    So go ahead Mark…tell me how all those rich, privileged white kids with slavery dollars under all their mattresses, each and every one with superior intelligence due to thousands of years of oppressing others, “need” to be penalized by black/minority preferences , or else they would grab every slot in every university and all the jobs in the world,too. No white kid ever works at minimum wage jobs trying to pay for college…nope, they’re all rich and racist and “deserve” to go to the back of bus. Say it…that’s the entire liberal election platform, I know you’ve got it memorized.

  • jevadrolwal

    The Senator has become a shadow of the man I once thought he was.

  • ericnwinter

    GREAT article!

    McCain has gone way past the “You kids get off my lawn!” grumpiness of the past.

    Now, he’s an unstable, hypocritical, stand-for-nothing jerk, and if it weren’t for Megan going out there trying to get some good things done, would anyone even talk to him?

    John, it’s time for you to retire in disgrace.

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