Democratic Tax Tantrums

This morning, ABC’s Jake Tapper reported that the White House wanted a fight but congressional Dems “wouldn’t throw a punch.” From his story:

The White House has two arguments for what they acknowledge are “frustrated” Democrats:

1) We wanted a fight on these tax cuts, and Congressional Democrats never took up the charge and held a vote;

2) This is a good deal — and we weren’t willing to let taxes go up on middle class Americans, or to deprive the unemployed of insurance benefits, just to prove a political point.

“We wanted a fight, the House didn’t throw a punch,” a senior White House official tells ABC News, pointing out that for months before the 2010 midterm elections, President Obama was making the case against the Bush tax cuts for wealthier Americans. “The House wouldn’t vote before the Senate, and the Senate was afraid they’d lose a vote on it.”

“It was like the Jets versus Sharks except there weren’t any Jets,” the official said. “Senator Schumer says he wants a fight? He couldn’t hold his caucus together.”

The response from the Hill this morning is indignant, to say the least. From a Senate Democratic aide:

“The White House never wanted a fight. They didn’t urge a vote before the election, and then they tried to stop the votes that were held last week. There were 53 Senate Democrats who voted to hang tough with the position that the President campaigned on; there might have been even more if the White House hadn’t waved the white flag a month ago to the Huffington Post. The administration struck a good deal considering they started the negotiations in a crouch; we’ll never what could have been possible if we’d started out fighting.”

In less than an hour the Senate Democratic caucus will be meeting with Joe Biden as their special punching bag guest. I asked a leadership aide what the questions will be. Would members ask Biden, “What the Hell were you thinking?” No, the aide replied, senators are more likely to tell Biden: “F-you and F-the horse you rode in on.”

Of course all this sturm-and-drang – along with somewhat hollow threats that progressives could bring down this compromise in the House — masks the fact the Dems have gotten a pretty good deal out of this. Essentially, it’s a second stimulus. The numbers in unpaid for spending promise to be eye popping – by my calculation somewhere north of $500 billion — something that I’m sure will please the Tea Party enormously. In the end, Dems will be able to say they’re doing something to help the limping economy and claim bipartisanship — no matter who gets the blame credit.

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Related Topics: bush tax cuts, Barack Obama, Congress, Democratic Party, Economy, Senate, Tea Party, White House
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  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    The Left has seen this act before. The Democrats scream and gnash their teeth just before they fold up like spineless wimps. The act has more than worn thin and if they ever want us to believe them again, now is the time to put their rhetoric into action. Just say no, and filibuster any attempt to pass this bill.

  • nflfoghorn

    Pls see my post @ the last thread and let me know if you agree.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    “It was like the Jets versus Sharks except there weren’t any Jets,” the official said.
    -
    Such a dated reference, senior White House official! How about this: “It was like the Jets versus Pats except there weren’t any Jets.” See, much better! Ripped from today’s headlines!
    -
    The numbers in unpaid for spending promise to be eye popping – by my calculation somewhere north of $500 billion — something that I’m sure will please the Tea Party enormously.
    -
    Why do you think the Tea Party cares about the deficit? There’s no evidence to support that view.
    -
    They didn’t protest Medicare Part D, or the budget-busting Bush tax deferral plan, or the unpaid for unnecessary wars, after all. They don’t care about the deficit any more than the GOP does.
    -
    The GOP just went to the mat to rip a $700 billion hole in the budget for non-stimulative tax breaks for the top 1%– even though tax rates at 1990s levels hardly coincided with economic ruin.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “a senior White House official tells ABC News”
    .
    ” a Senate Democratic aide”

    .
    Go on record or stfu.

  • Paul-no not that one

    I will add that if the “senior White House official” continued with a few examples of the administration fighting “like we did with (a), (b), and (c)” it might be slightly more believable.

  • GivenUp

    As Krugman says, there is no such thing as a deficit hawk in congress…

  • freeinpa

    “The Democrats scream and gnash their teeth just before they fold up like spineless wimps.”
    .
    That is the problem when you have a philosophy that is bankrupt and no principles other than wanting to control everything and everybody. The extreme left made the horrendous mistake that voting for Obama was a demand for extreme liberalism. It wasn’t! And now we have the temper tantrums.

  • freeinpa

    and fortunately no economists like Krugman

  • textee

    As a lifelong Democrat, I agree with our fellow loyal, faithful and lifelong Democrats Pat Caddell and Doug Schoen in calling for Obama not to seek reelection. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/12/AR2010111202846.html

    I urge all other fellow, loyal and faithful Democrats to jump on our bandwagon.

  • http://shortplaysaboutrealpeople.wordpress.com Michael Maiello

    “senators are more likely to tell Biden: “F-you and F-the horse you rode in on.”

    What did I miss? Did Wyoming send Cheney back?

  • http://shortplaysaboutrealpeople.wordpress.com Michael Maiello

    Where do you get $500 billion? Over what time frame?

  • http://gum0nshoe.wordpress.com gumOnShoe

    As a Republican, Jay, I’m sure you’re happy at this turn of events.

    However, whoever said the White House wanted a fight was lying and as far as congress. Harry Reid is a total push over. Which doesn’t help when Obama fûcks your position over from day 1.

    There isn’t a single democrat I’m happy with right now.
    And if you continue to push this idiotic ‘tax breaks are stimulus’ line, you’ll be judged accordingly.

    I swear, you wear your political allegiances and desires on your sleeve JNS. The falsehoods and out right lies you report on are unbecoming.

  • allthingsinaname

    There are only Middle Class Benefit Hawks

  • stuartzechman

    Jay Netwon-Small:
    .
    You write:
    .
    Essentially, it’s a second stimulus.
    .
    , and that’s mostly correct.
    .
    It’s essentially a second, not nearly large enough to match the opposite recessionary forces, larded down with inducements for the investor class to play in the high finance casino, bank-shot policy of indirect job creation, tax-cuts-are-the-only-acceptable-stimulus ideology-affirming, no infrastructure improvement, politically unpopular stimulus.
    .
    Yes, it’s a second stimulus that serves only to discredit widely accepted and successful economic theories in the (US) public mind while cementing into place “government can’t do anything about the economy except cut taxes, so my employer has more money” mythology.
    .
    It’s another half-assed “stimulus,” in other words.
    .
    Essentially, it’s more failed politics and policy, more half-a-bridge “solutions” to the crisis of crossing the economic river Jordan.
    .
    You’re so right, Jay Newton-Small.
    .
    $500 billion dollars in unpaid for “spending?” And we don’t even make a dent in reconstructing our dilapidated electrical grid? There’s no Hoover Dam? There’s no armies of workers laying high-speed rail tracks across the nation? $500 billion and there’s no jobs?
    .
    Unemployment is inching back up toward 10% and there’s $500 billion in…extending the same old, nine-year-long tax breaks?
    .
    There comes a point in serious policy discussion when the side that’s arguing for a bridge to be built has to recognize that funding for only half a bridge is worse than accepting that no bridge can be built at all, that putting up half a bridge now, and expecting the other half to happen down the road some time is a waste of time, tax-payer money and productivity.
    .
    We either spend the money to build an entire bridge that spans the entire river, or we don’t. In terms of the economy, that’s where we are right now.
    .
    Essentially, it’s a second stimulus.

    You’re too right, Jay Newton-Small, you’re too right.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “Benefit Hawks”? Nice.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    freeinpa the mistake the Left made was believing the lying wimp Obama when he pretended to be more liberal than Clinton. If we knew we were getting another Clinton, perhaps fewer people would have voted for him.

  • newfreedomblog

    “…by my calculation somewhere north of $500 billion — something that I’m sure will please the Tea Party enormously”

    .
    Care to break that $500 billion down? Exactly how did you arrive at this magical number? Please enlighten us.
    .
    Oh, and by the way, the only thing which would please the Tea Party is if $500 billion in additional cuts in SPENDING was passed. Then perhaps one could say we are on the right road to correcting the woes of this current mess our friends on the left have put us all into.

  • http://therealestamerican.wordpress.com therealestamerican

    Sage wisdom from the Free Pennsylvanian!
    .
    The William Ayers trained Kenyan Pretender once again proves that he is the EXTREMEST of extremist liberals!
    .
    First he closed our offshore Freedom Prison (Gitmo), then he ended the wars in Afghan and Iraq, then he raised the corporate tax rate to 90%! No wonder he was voted out by Real Americans last November!
    .
    Maybe NOW he’ll be willing to sit down with the principled Republican Real Americans and capitulate to the demands of the Billionaire-Americans who make this country the Greatest Country on God’s Green Earth! That won’t ever happen, though. Obambimaomarx will likely just continue his plan to hand over America to homosexual welfare treehuggers!!!

  • allthingsinaname

    To the point and without the distractions of Third Way, New Democrat, Centrist, Jargon.
    .
    The way it should be.

  • newfreedomblog

    As Nero (Obama) plays his fiddle in Washington, the rest of the world inches closer and closer to a total failure of our economy.
    .
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0732290620101207
    .

    “(Reuters) – U.S. crude oil futures prices
    rose sharply on Tuesday, pushing above $90 a barrel for the first time in 26 months as cold weather boosting fuel demand and the dollar’s weakness kept oil lifted.
    .
    Gold hit its second consecutive record high as the dollar fell, also driven by year-end fund buying, the prospect of more U.S. monetary easing and investor nervousness over the European debt crisis. Silver hit a 30-year high for the seventh consecutive day. “

    .
    Isn’t it comforting to have a former self-professed “Community Organizer” in the White House???

  • http://therealestamerican.wordpress.com therealestamerican

    Lifelong Demoncrat!?!?
    .
    textee? Why? I…I…words fail me! How can such a Real American as yourself be a member of the Communist/Marxist/Maoist/Socialist party?!?!
    .
    I mourn for American if Real American’s like textee are falling for the diabolic lies of the atheistic left!

  • newfreedomblog
  • freeinpa

    “the mistake the Left made was believing the lying wimp Obama when he pretended to be more liberal than Clinton.”
    . See the right has been telling the left that Obama was a lying deceitful useless politician since 2008. For our trouble we were called racist and trolls. If that was/is true, then that now makes liberals racist which is also something the the right has been saying since 2008.
    .
    In truth its not that Obama is less extreme liberal than advertised, it he is incompetent and has no experience to lead a cub scout troop let alone a political party. And I hate to say it again, but that is also something the right has been saying since 2008.

  • pelhamite1

    I am curious, Derek, exactly what state you reside in. You are constantly threatening to take your marbles and go home. How doing so is going to help the already miniscule leverage that “the left” has on electoral politics in this country reanmins unexplained.

    .

    You live in one of three different kinds of states: 1) a state, like mine, in which the Dermocrats are certain to win in amost any circumstances, which certainly allows you to be as righteous as you want to be with no harm done – and no one really caring. 2) a state like Texas or Tennessee in which the Democrats are certain to lose in this day and age, so your stnace is again, irrelevant. or 3) a state like Florida or Colorado, in which you really do have the power to stay home and throw the election to the Republicans. Some 50,000 Floridians, thinking along your lines, voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 and started us down this road in the first place, arguing (how clear I rememberit) “there is no difference between George Bush and Al Gore.” I don’t think history has rendered a gentle judgmenet on the consequences.

    .

    Even I, just the sort of pragmatic centrist that many of the Left seem to abhor, think this was a moment when Obama should have turned and stood his ground – and I hope the Senate wil press forward nevertheless. But getting disheartened – or counseling non-participation – will only make the situation worse – much worse. Vent your frustration, by all means, but let us nor concede one inch to the forces of genuine evil that the Republican Party has become.

  • nflfoghorn

    As the residing ex-SportsCenter host on GMA said in effect, the Jets didn’t show up last night either! ;)

  • newfreedomblog

    The new fishing policy from the Obama Administration to win the War on Terror!!
    .
    Catch and Release
    .
    http://washingtonexaminer.com/news/world/2010/12/catch-and-release-taliban-fighters-afghanistan-angers-troops
    .
    Any news on this TIME.com? Any reporting on why Obama is allowing this to take place?
    .
    ….to live to fight another day, or in the case of the Obama Administration, live to fight the same battles over and over again….Ground-hog day anyone??

  • newfreedomblog

    From Drudge Report:
    .
    SOURCES: EDITORS OF TIME MAGAZINE WILL NAME WIKILEAKS FOUNDER ‘PERSON OF THE YEAR’… DEVELOPING…
    .
    Seriously??

  • stuartzechman

    Thanks for reading.
    .
    It ain’t about my political theories anymore; we’re sailing the USS Democratic Party right into the gigantic rocks in front of us that everyone with functioning eyes can see.
    .
    More importantly, this is hurting the country.

  • http://therealestamerican.wordpress.com therealestamerican

    More proof that the militant virulent necrophiliac agenda has taken over the Demoncrat party!
    .
    Thank you Glenn Beck for showing us the Truth (again!). Is it possible to have Glenn Beck canonized before he’s dead? Do we really need to wait?

  • freeinpa

    “it’s a second stimulus that serves only to discredit widely accepted and successful economic theories”
    .
    Sorry SZ. It is widely accepted because like most issues, the left shout down opposition. Successful hardly. What is true is that the government is the worst allocator of capital and is subject to corruption.

    Look globally at countries since WWII that came under economic distress. Germany recovery began in 1948 as personal income rates declined along with government regulation of commerce. Japan on th eother hand did not begin its recovery until the 1950′s when tax rates were finally adjusted downward. The studies of the 1920 and 1930s here saw similar economic responses. Government tax increases and spending lengthened the recession. In 1935 Roosevelt wanted more revenue to spend and pushed through a 79% rate. In 1937 economy fell into a recession. The left’s love for Keynesian economics were behind this. France in 1920 put in a steep progressive tax and the economy sank and inflation boomed. In 1926 rates cut from 60% to 30% and the economy recovered.
    .
    Examples go on and on. The slow learners seem to be US liberals.

  • http://therealestamerican.wordpress.com therealestamerican

    New Freedom! In vino veritas, my friend!
    .
    Of COURSE Time ragazine will name him ‘person’ of the year! What else would you expect from the Little Red Book of the leftist media! They’ll probably run him for President like they did with Obama! The fact the Obama wasn’t born in America didn’t slow them down last time, I’m sure it won’t slow them down with Assange!
    .
    Of course Assange probably isn’t left enough for the libtards! Right, NewFreeDom!

  • http://therealestamerican.wordpress.com therealestamerican

    NewFreedom, I understand your concern! But look at it this way. If we don’t have terrorists to catch, we won’t have the War on Terrorism. And The Great George Bush II said that we will be fighting the War on Terrorism for a long time. We wouldn’t want The Great George Bush II to looks like a liar?
    .
    Sometimes, sacrifices are necessary. We can get someone else to make those, right?

  • http://therealestamerican.wordpress.com therealestamerican

    “As Nero (Obama) plays his fiddle in Washington…”
    .
    Does that mean that The Great George Bush II was Claudius? Hmmmm…..Interesting, I’ll need to ponder this, NewFreedom….

  • newfreedomblog

    Aahnold gets out the big axe.
    .
    http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2010/12/06/schwarzenegger-cuts-are-unavoidable-to-close-deficit/
    .
    9.9 BILLION in cuts. Wow!! What will our progressive friends do? Oh that’s right. They want to put people to work, building bridges to nowhere we do not need, high speed rail systems no one will ride on, or replace what they deem as dilapidated electrical grids.
    .
    Come on people, seriously? The most advanced country in the world simply needs to stop all of the out of control spending. Use New York or California as your examples that social justice programs simply do not work. You have allowed people to become totally dependent on our welfare systems, and they no longer want or chose to work. It is that simple.

  • newfreedomblog

    While you ponder. I would suggest you get out the bottle with the pharmacy label that says “Seroquel”. Hopefully your doctor has also written for PRN doses too. I suggest at least 200 mg as a little booster to what you are already taking.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    “See the right has been telling the left that Obama was a lying deceitful useless politician since 2008.”
    .
    If you had any respect for the truth you would admit that you have been calling him a socialist and a fascist. In other words, you have been trying to blame the compromising wimp on the Left. His latest imitation of a wet noodle proves how stupid that argument is, once again.

  • grape_crush

    $500 billion and there’s no jobs?
    .
    Repeat this as often as possible, please.
    .
    Oh, and nice work on Virtually Speaking this past week.

  • freeinpa

    “As Nero (Obama) plays his fiddle in Washington, the rest of the world inches closer and closer to a total failure of our economy.”
    .
    In reality the First Tourist is not often in Washington and when he is its usually a golf course or basketball court.

  • http://gum0nshoe.wordpress.com gumOnShoe

    Gee, and as I recall the bridge to nowhere was a Republican project… see?

    Its Republicans who waste money. Don’t you see newf?

  • http://theblindspotsofgod.wordpress.com lawyermommy

    It is looking more and more like Obama is moving to the middle and as usual not thoroughly explaining why, and will look at the end, like he made the decisions he did because he was weak and not because he was PRAGMATIC.

    The article by JNS speaks for itself but I marvel at the idiocy of the political process and the inability of the masses to collectively rise up against the acts of the Republican party. Tax cuts for the richest yet end unemployment for the struggling masses.

    There has to be a better way to run a democracy. It is not democratic when corporate interests have the ability to change the minds of the masses by beating their minds to death on FOX, or when people are informed only by emm Internet news.

    This compromise is the first in a long list of events when Obama willl be forced to give his lunch to the Republican emm corporate interests, or risk achieving NOTHING during the remainder of his term as president.

    Yes, I know I dealt with broader issues on here than the specific thrust of this post, but whenever I have the time to read about politics these days, the theme is absolutely revolting. We truly live in the midst of uninformed, easily led and semi illiterate masses.

    Democracy is not working for America. It is corporate control. It is about time, people started thinking of a better option than this so called Presidential system and the two houses full of corporate interests.
    *Sigh*

    Sad

    LM

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    “How doing so is going to help the already miniscule leverage that “the left” has on electoral politics in this country reanmins unexplained.”
    .
    If the Democrats keep losing, because the Left stays home or votes a third party, at some point the Democrats may decide to include them, should they regain power, rather than lecturing them on not wasting their vote and then turning their backs on them, once in power. Liberals may only represent 20% of the voters, but that is a big chunk of the Democratic party. Let’s see if the Democrats can win without them.

  • nflfoghorn

    Good to hear from you LM….

  • http://therealestamerican.wordpress.com therealestamerican

    NewFreedom! Are you also a physician? How wonderful!
    .
    Thank you for your medical advice! It is much appreciated! As a pull-myself-up-by-my-own-bootstraps Real American, I pay for my medical services out-of-pocket. Like all Real Americans should! Your timely advice has saved my several hundred dollars in exorbitant liberal-caused doctor’s fees!
    .
    Thank you NewFreedom! You’re a fine example of Compassionate Conservativing!

  • http://therealestamerican.wordpress.com therealestamerican

    “Aahnold gets out the big axe.”
    .
    Oh! I LOVE the Conan movies! Now that’s a Republican! Muscular! Virile! MANLY! If it wasn’t for that suspiciously European accent, he would be the prefect icon of Real American greatness!
    .
    I just can’t wait to see the look on all those Calisocialists faces when Conan comes bounding in with his big axe and oiled, glistening muscles! I can hear the lady liberals swooning already! Oh my!

  • freeinpa

    “$500 billion and there’s no jobs?
    .
    Repeat this as often as possible, please”
    .
    Repeat as often that the government continues to prove they are the worst allocator of capital- period!

  • freeinpa

    “If you had any respect for the truth”
    .
    Well which is it? Did I call him a socialist or a fascist? Sounds like you more liberal whining because in the end despite the lies about who they are an dwhat they want eventually the mask comes off and America recoils in horror.

  • virginiagentleman

    newf, you do realize (wait a minute, what am I thinking?) that the Person of the Year is not an “award?” That they’ve given it to Hitler and Stalin?

  • stuartzechman

    grape_crush:
    .
    nice work on Virtually Speaking this past week
    .
    Thanks so much for the compliment, and thanks for listening!
    .
    Marcy Wheeler is just great, isn’t she?

  • freeinpa

    “Its Republicans who waste money. Don’t you see newf?”
    .
    And th e$400,000 per job from the stimulus package was…..????

  • shepherdwong

    The real gift here is the proposal to let the richest of the rich pass on estates to their heirs at an even lower rate than in 2009. Obama now gets to explain to GS-3 federal clerks why they get to take one for the team while those estates of up to $10 million pay no tax and estates of $100 million pass on nearly $70 million free and clear. Restoring the estate tax to 2009 law would increase the national debt by $265 billion over 10 years. This version will cost lots more than that.

    It’s a point barely worth making, but the tax cut deal demonstrates, for the umpteenth time, that self-proclaimed deficit hawks are frauds. We can’t afford unemployment benefits or public investment, the fake hawks say — but when it come to cutting taxes on the rich, money is literally no object.

    Just let those f*ckers start making noise against about how everyone has to sacrifice to cure our terrible deficit crisis.
    .
    http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Tax-VOX/2010/1207/Estate-tax-deal-worst-part-of-a-bad-tax-compromise
    .
    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/07/there-are-no-deficit-hawks-in-congress/

  • virginiagentleman

    Newf, this is pure genius: “9.9 BILLION in cuts. Wow!! What will our progressive friends do? Oh that’s right. They want to put people to work, building bridges to nowhere we do not need, high speed rail systems no one will ride on, or replace what they deem as dilapidated electrical grids.
    .
    Come on people, seriously? The most advanced country in the world simply needs to stop all of the out of control spending. Use New York or California as your examples that social justice programs simply do not work. You have allowed people to become totally dependent on our welfare systems, and they no longer want or chose to work. It is that simple.”
    .
    Let’s face it, there’s no better way for America to maintain its status as the “most advanced country in the world” than to stop spending on things like bridges and railways and electrical grids and, instead, make poor people poorer. But you’ve got me a little confused, newf (I know, nothing new): wouldn’t all of that spending on bridges and high speed rail systems and electrical grids (and I hate to break it to you, but we do have dilapidated grids) create, you know, jobs that could be filled by those people you say “no longer want or chose to work?”
    .
    Oh well, I guess it’s just not “that simple.”

  • http://www.simonvinkenoog.nl/beeld/Yogi%20-%20Annelies%20Rigter.jpg yogi

    $500 billion and there’s no jobs?

    That’s because the trickle down hasn’t reached the unemployed yet. Let that Obama piss rain down and it’ll reach us soon!

  • stuartzechman

    the government continues to prove they are the worst allocator of capital
    .
    Actually, this government’s dismal record may actually be reaching the last government’s, can’t really argue with that.
    .
    The thing is, my criticism is reality-based. It’s because of the evidence that I can say that this and the prior government have proven terrible at capital allocation.
    .
    Eisenhower, on the other hand, built the Interstate Highway system.
    .
    FDR brought the countryside electricity.
    .
    At times in the past, the government has proven a better allocator of capital than the Wall Street geniuses who just lost our shirts at the big finance betting tables over the past decade.
    .
    The government wasn’t always totally incompetent, it’s somewhat of a recent phenomenon…that happens to coincide with the policy of giving the richest more tax breaks with which to buy the government, so that they get more tax breaks, so that they can buy more government, etc, etc.
    .
    What we’re seeing isn’t mere inefficiency, it’s…something else.

  • virginiagentleman

    BTW, I’m pushing a write-in campaign for Person of the Year for therealestamerican…

  • hippooath

    “Well which is it? Did I call him a socialist or a fascist? Sounds like you more liberal whining because in the end despite the lies about who they are an dwhat they want eventually the mask comes off and America recoils in horror.”
    .
    In a way he’s like you – he stands for nothing. Says he’s something but he’s the opposite. The difference is that you object against Obama for unreal things like socialist. In other words sh!t you pulled out of your @ss without regards to facts, data or otherwise. Just stuff that made you wet your pants.
    .
    We object because he’s not standing for any liberal policies at all. Not in your comical understanding of what liberal ideas are, but he’s caving on every single liberal idea that can dig this country out of the problems we’re in.
    .
    So we’re not ‘waking’ up to the scary Obama you paint him out to be, only the centrist mush and spineless leader we did not elect.
    .
    Maybe to you it’s all the same to you but one is your fantasy world and the other is the reality without the kind of leadership this country needs. You keep on covering under the table with your shotgun looking for commies and we’ll have to seriously start looking for some real adults that can fix this mess.

  • virginiagentleman

    textee, isn’t that like calling Judas a “lifelong Apostle?”

  • shepherdwong

    What we’re seeing isn’t mere inefficiency, it’s…something else.
    .
    It’s called corporatocracy. It doesn’t allocate, it merely corrupts and consumes.
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy

  • allthingsinaname

    I think it is called money

  • freeinpa

    Eisenhower, on the other hand, built the Interstate Highway system.
    .
    FDR brought the countryside electricity.
    .
    At times in the past, the government has proven a better allocator of capital than the Wall Street geniuses who just lost our shirts at the big finance betting tables over the past decade.
    .
    Well what you have shown are 2 examples when the country was less than fully developed. Could it have been done more efficiently? We don’t know. We are still subsidixzing rural electricity so while it might have been a fine thing to do, it raises the question financially if the government should be involved. Upgrading our grid now? What would the cost be considering all the regulatory morass that needs to be done. Look at what has befallen the nuclear energy industry. We could have developed cleaner cheaper energy if not for government interference.
    .
    and I disagree with your assessment of Wall St vs government. The losses and bailout have nothing to do with capital allocation. No matter how you turn it, the government was at least as culpable as Wall St for the crisis. And in the end, banking and Wall St are the mostly highly regulated industries in this country. Of course the left argues about the government being a tool of corporate blah blah blah. But in the end it is a fool’s game to give the government uncontrolled power over people and industry. History has shown time and time again there is nothing more corrupt than governments gaining power. Over the centuries having government control and regulate business and industry destroys business and eventually destroys the country.

  • shepherdwong

    I think it is called money.
    .
    Don’t blame it on an abstraction. It’s people. The sociopaths who seek and obtain power, to be specific.
    .
    http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/003326.html

  • freeinpa

    “The difference is that you object against Obama for unreal things like socialist”
    .

    I am sure this sounded brilliant in your head. But just like you other posts, it is irrational gibberish.
    .
    And it gets better!!

    “You keep on covering under the table with your shotgun looking for commies and we’ll have to seriously start looking for some real adults that can fix this mess.”
    .
    So I’m calling Obama a socialist and a fascist and I’m looking for communists.
    .
    Step away form the keyboard you have officially blown a valve.

  • freeinpa

    “Don’t blame it on an abstraction. It’s people. The sociopaths who seek and obtain power, to be specific”
    .
    And they are Democrats, to be specific

  • hippooath

    “So I’m calling Obama a socialist and a fascist and I’m looking for communists.”
    .
    Don’t look at me – I can’t help that you and others like you can’t tell basic ideologies apart.

  • shepherdwong

    Democrats don’t vote for Republicans.

  • freeinpa

    Yes there are socialist, communists, fascists and idiots.

    You fall into the last one.

  • Ivy_B

    virginiagentleman, I’m with you! Therealestamerican for PotY!

  • sasquatch08

    I don’t get this whole thing:
    .
    To Democrats AND Republicans: Politics is the art of compromise. As in life in general you will never get 100% of what you want, you have to give up some things you want to get the opposition to give up some of the things you really don’t want. That’s how it works.
    .
    Compromising doesn’t mean you’re weak, it means you actually understand the rules of the game and are willing to play.
    .
    If liberals really hate Obama doing this they 1) don’t understand the game and 2) like the hardcore right wingers really do eat their own just to fulfill their own delusions that they are righteous and ideologically pure.

  • artraveler

    The bulk of the American people aren’t being helped by the fact that too many of the Represdentatives and Senators fall into that “too rich” category. They have absolutely nothing in common with the people who continue to vote them in office.

  • megatronrises

    freeinpa:
    .
    “We could have developed cleaner cheaper energy if not for government interference.”
    .
    LOL!!! What a pipe dream.
    .
    Since money is the bottom line, companies would be happy to cut corners to save a buck, regardless of the environmental impact or ‘clean-ness’.
    .
    See: BP Gulf Oil Spill, circa April 2010.
    .
    Have you seriously forgotten this?

  • freeinpa

    “Since money is the bottom line, companies would be happy to cut corners to save a buck, regardless”
    .
    Those big bad capitalist ruin everything. If only government would tale over everything, it would be safe and free and we all would have it just like say the postal service?
    .
    Time to adjust your tin foil hat!
    .
    “Democrats don’t vote for Republicans.”
    . Even when they vote several times?

  • freeinpa

    “To Democrats AND Republicans: Politics is the art of compromise.”
    .
    That was true right up to the late 1980′s. After that it became about control and power.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    I would have voted for Hillary if I’d known Obama was a pretend liberal.

  • afguy

    Question….
    .
    Would Hillary have been any different regarding centrist tendencies that BHO is turning out to be?
    .
    Had he campaigned on compromise and doing what he is doing, would he have gotten out of the primary?
    .
    Would Hillary have been any less of a “Third Way” proponent than he has been?

  • http://therealestamerican.wordpress.com therealestamerican

    ::sniff::
    .
    I am humbled by your support!
    .
    Unfortunately, i was chosen by Time to be their Person of the Year in 2006. I was on the cover and everything! It wouldn’t be fair to win again!

  • np042

    Those big bad capitalist ruin everything. If only government would tale over everything, it would be safe and free and we all would have it just like say the postal service?

    Hyperbole much? Stuart never stated capitalism is bad or the desire for government to take over everything. Or are you claiming that it wasn’t companies cutting corners that caused the oil spill?
    .
    I would also add that it is the far right that needs to get it’s tin foil hats fixed. To see the amount of fear-mongering and hand-wringing about things like the recent food bill (Beck: “The government is trying to control you!”) and net neutrality is down right terrifying from a rational perspective.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    Right. 44% of all Senators and Representatives are millionaires, as compared to less than 2% of the entire population. Washington really is on the side of the monied intersts. When they argue not to let the Bush cuts expire, they are arguing against a tax increase for themselves. They don’t care that people are out of work, because they have their jobs. This mentality has been going on since Reagan and is bound to break some day–perhaps in my lifetime?

  • stuartzechman

    Stuart never stated capitalism is bad or the desire for government to take over everything.
    .
    Of course that’s exactly right, I never said nor meant such a thing.
    .
    I mean that crony capitalism is bad, and that I have a desire for the government to fight crony capitalism instead of hastening our nation’s decline into a fixed, corrupt game where winners always win, and losers always lose.
    .
    I want real free enterprise, where the state has a stake in making sure that the little guy always has a chance, instead a stake in the fortunes of the biggest players.
    .
    That’s the kind of capitalism movement liberals like myself are for. It’s crony capitalism we’re against.

  • freeinpa

    Stuart never stated capitalism is bad or the desire for government to take over everything”
    .
    I never said or implied that SZ did. I was responding to megatronrise. Although SZ has in the past stated his wish that the government take over HC.

  • freeinpa

    “They don’t care that people are out of work, because they have their jobs”
    .
    It si not that they don’t care, the reality which liberals will not face is that the government cannot create jobs. But they can and have created an atmosphere of regulations, mandates and tax structure that cause jobs to move elsewhere.

  • np042

    Ahh, read the wrong name of the person you were quoting. Regardless, megatronrises was not stating those things either.
    .
    As an aside, I personally think health care should not be an industry where decisions are made based on a company bottom line. I’m not advocating for a complete takeover of health care, but a government option to keep actual competitiveness in the industry would be a good thing. I count myself fortunate that my company has a good plan and takes care of it’s employees.

  • rdw56

    a new Gallup poll has George W. Bush’s approval rating up at 47 percent. This means that the former president currently enjoys a one-point lead on Barack Obama, whose current approval rating is at 46 percent.

    *********************************************************

    Your guy is not having a good day. He also caved on Israeli settlements today. That was not a good press conference

  • earljr1

    We are watching the wheels come off the democratic party and they deserve NOTHING less. Two years of unparalleled arrogance is coming home to roost. Ignoring the will of the people usually has dire consequences and nothing illustrates this more clearly that the current state of the confused, ineffective and impotent democratic party. Anthony Trollope once wrote…”.when you go into an attorney’s office door, you will have to pay for it, first OR later”! Well, two years later, the democrats are now confronted with having to PAY that bill. Surprise, surprise.

  • shepherdwong

    That was true right up to the late 1980′s. After that it became about control and power.
    .
    It wasn’t the late 1980s, it was 1980. Then it became all about control and power – by corporations – fed by a constant stream of lies.
    .
    http://pilgrimpathways.wordpress.com/2010/06/05/anatomy-of-modern-movement-conservatism-in-the-u-s/

  • stuartzechman

    No, that’s not my past wish, and you know it.

  • stuartzechman

    f-ing wordpress

  • stuartzechman

    I’ve stated that my goal is to stop Medicare’s price-setting system –which directly influences prices in HMO’s, which directly influences prices in the private market– from being corrupt and a massive rip-off.
    .
    That’s not a “government take over of health care.”
    .
    It’s not “socialized medicine.”
    .
    It’s not even single-payer –I don’t even care about that.
    .
    All I care about is not using the same pricing system we use now, which means reforming the way that Medicare sets prices, except doing it in the open, without the backroom deals that destroyed so much of this latest health care reform catastrophe-in-slow-motion.
    .
    I didn’t even support passage of the PPACA –I would have taken nothing rather than this legislation– when it was up for a vote.
    .
    What stated wish are you talking about?
    .
    Are you sure you don’t have me confused with somebody else?

  • rover27

    And you’re a right-wing extremist.

  • sasquatch08

    “It wasn’t the late 1980s, it was 1980. Then it became all about control and power – by corporations – fed by a constant stream of lies.”
    .
    Really?
    .
    Dude, I totally thought that happened closer to like 1950 and that it’s what like, allowed the money hungry capitalist corporations (pigs) to like, start the war in Vietnam and like, feed the military industrial complex and like, make billions off the backs of the working poor in SE Asia, and that’s why we had to have Woodstock and SDS and the Weather Underground because we had to fight the evil corporations with peace and love and drugs maaaaannnn!
    .

  • hippooath

    “Yes there are socialist, communists, fascists and idiots.
    .
    You fall into the last one.”
    .
    Well, considering that what you say means absolutely nothing it safe to say that I don’t have to worry about the accuracy in that statement. It’s a pity that you put your political party above country, you’re a real mensch. Have a good evening.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    nfl-
    Please say you’re being facetious? Or were you not around for LM’s paranoid schizophrenic outbursts in the past? Did you know Stuart, Sacred, and a dozen other posters are all one in the same? They are all monikers used by one crazed internet criminial who has been stalking LM. Yea, welcome back, indeed.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    I wish I could spell.

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