A New Generation of Cynics?

To the Dems:
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It isn’t going to make a bit of difference what happens at this point.
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To the Republicans:
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Be careful what you wish for. You may just have traded a perceived transgression of your individual rights for an almost certain trampling of your individual rights by corporate interests.
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And neither the Dems or the Republicans have absolutely no idea of the kind of cancer the country faces.
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It won’t be the Democratss. It won’t be the Republicans.
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This country will be facing the corporate version of Oates cell carcinoma…

I’ll agree with that poll. It won’t make a lick of difference because it’ll be the Republicans running the show either way.

As much as I dislike the teabaggers, and less so the spinelessness of our fellow Democrats, they are not to blame for what is coming.
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You can thank the Supreme Court for this…

In less time than it take to say ‘civil liberties’, the Republicans will be finding out just whose maw their disappearing individual liberties are really going down…

We’re talking Republican voters, right?

When the choice is between center-right or far-right, what would you expect from young voters?

Ask yourselves these questions:
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Do individual liberties jibe with corporate interests?
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Is “life, liberty, and happines” congruent to their aims?
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Is any equity issue a concern of corporations?
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Will corporations stay out of your private lives?
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The answers to these and more forbidding questions lie in the very, very near future…

Pretty much, but Dem spinelessness has had a lot to do with the, er, kaff, kaff, wink “crossroads”* we stand at.
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The GOP just doesn’t know it yet…
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*Google “Crossroads GPS”. These are the new ‘boys in town’

Living in a system funded and run by an olicarchy, abetted by an at least lazy traditional media, supported by a conservative megaphone media, dealing with 2 undeclared and unfunded wars, and being told by those you supported to stand aside might make any generation cynical.
I was already cynical but now sadly more so. I am sorry young people didn’t have the chance to exercise and enjoy their idealism for a longer time.

I’m very worried at this point. A few months ago, the Supreme Court decision was portrayed as opening Pandora’s Box.
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But now, what is really, really astonishing is just how much, and how fast, the corporate interests have jumped into the game. It is far different to actually watch the horrible process unfold.
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And they are not shy about overwhelming the old campaign paradigm with one of their own.
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The average American voting GOP will regret this. As will all the Democrats who were spinelessly throwing away an opportunity to avert a turn in the direction we are now soon to head for….

Step 1. Point out the injustices.
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Step 2. Promise to fix the injustices.

Step 3. Try to slip the word “change” into almost every sentence.
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Step 4. Gain power.
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Step 5. Blame supporters for believing in big change.
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Step 6. Tell them they have no choice.

Step 7. Go back to one.

I’m afraid what will transpire will be a democratic oligarchy.
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This will mean that the only choices we will have in the near future are those choices that corporate interests put before us.
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We will have no more choice than the Soviets had or the citizens of China now have. The only difference will be the set of choices we have to choose amongst.
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It’s the reason why I told sasquatch8 that “Caveat Emptor” are not words to rally behind when defending this country…

As one prepares to go back to step one, get intercepted by the corporate big fish waiting below…

I know I’m being a screeching parrot here, but check this out:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/13/american-crossroads-boasts-13-million-haul-for-week-starts-spending-on-house-races/
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My point is that this is only the beginning. When GOPers’ begin to feel a sense their populist approaches are not congruent with the corporate interests, what do you think will happen?

I suppose that Obama can take some of the blame for using hard to live up to rhetoric in 2008.

But I think people from both sides will also admit that the Republicans have a similar problem. The Tea Party will not be able to deliver on “taking back the government” from corporate interests either.

So accepting that both political parties are to blame for not delivering on high expectations, we have to ask: is anyone else to blame for risining cyncism among politically interested (or actively disinterested) Americans?

Could the petty fixations of our political media be somewhat to blame as well?

“More voters under age 30 say it does not matter which party controls Congress than support either party in control”
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It is pretty easy to understand why they would feel that way. Doesn’t make it true.

P-NNTO,
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If it’s NOT true, is it, say, more true than it was a generation ago?
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When I was growing up, I could have made more or less the same claim but for a vastly different reason – that BOTH parties had the interests of the country at heart.
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Now, it appears that they BOTH are more or less beholden to the same set of corporate interests.
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Anyone think Roberts may have dramatically underestimated the rate and degree to which the corporations stepped in to take the campaign process in the direction it’s gone?

Oat cell (small cell) carcinoma can usually be contained, 53 and your analogy should point this out. The American public is fed up with deception in government and is moving to correct a major wrong. Mr. Obama willingly took outside donations (when it served his purpose) but now, this great hysteria because that money is now being channeled to republicans? Do I smell hypocrisy, or is it just my imagination?

Are they closer to the same than they used to be?
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I don’t know. I see it as both parties (speaking broadly) have taken three steps to the right. Moreso in the Senate
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Does it make a difference if it is Pelosi or Boehner?
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Reid or McConnell?

P-NNTO,
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Can’t stand McConnell (and he’s MY senator). Has absolutely NO ethical compass that I can see. Reid is an ineffectual “nothing-burger”.
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Pelosi better than Boehner, who I consider a clown. But she has done a bit of bailing out of positions (and supposed “promises”) made in speeches.
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Guess the days of powerful and effective House speakers went out of style with Lyndon Johnson.
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Yes, he walked right on the line a lot but he did know how to get things done without holding his finger up to sample the prevailing winds…

Pelosi has been (what’s a word I can use that won’t get me in Swampland Limbo? rat f..? no) less than fully supported by her counterparts in the Senate and Whithouse.
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I’m not pleased with the Democrats but to say that it doesn’t matter which party controls Congress is folly.
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And to answer your last question-Roberts is getting exactly what he hoped for with Citizens United.

One can easily substitute corporation with government

“I suppose that Obama can take some of the blame for using hard to live up to rhetoric in 2008.”
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It’s not the rhetoric. He was inexperienced and arrogant. It is one thing to be a professional rabble rouser, it is something quite different to actually do something.

destor23,
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For me, the revelation by Tom Daschle that the Obama admin. gave up the Public Option because he (Obama) didn’t want it in there, NOT because of necessary negotiation compormise, is a pretty damaging revelation. Especially since he campaigned strongly on getting that in the HCR legislation.
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True, he walked it back the next day but I think that was one of those moments of unintended honesty, esp. since the same thing is in Daschle’s book.
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When you have the GOP doing what they are doing and then you have the Dems negotiating away popular legislational features, you can see why people are getting cynical.
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Somewhat the same way they are getting cynical about organized religion – too much hypocrisy and double-talk there too. Hard to listen to the morality part when you see supporters negotiating away their Sunday church principles on the other days of the week.

Nope earljr1, but you missed the diagnosis.
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You see, the Supreme court decision may be to your liking, as the influx of money attests, but, if you really want to properly diagnose the problem, you need to answer this question honestly:
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What do you think will happen when your ideas about how this country should be run is no longer congruent with corporate interests?
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Not even a little hypocrisy. In the scope of this question, Democrat or Republican is irrelevant. So is the media. And so is who one likes as president.
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So, earljr1, make the diagnosis!
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P-NNTO,
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Hard to argue with that… after all, he DID virtually advertize for someone to bring it up and pretty well map out how to present it so he could over-turn the precedent.
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I was just wondering if he REALLY understood how fast they would take over the process.

And I’m jerking your license to practice medicine.
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Oates cell carcinoma is the worst type of lung cancer, fast spreading and deadly.
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Two people I know personally have died from this cancer. Of the cancers, it is one of the most intractable if not caught very early, and it usually isn’t.
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http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/280104-overview

You’ve answered your own question.
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Feel free to answer those questions in regards to your individual rights. We already know your position on government, now let’s see if you’re as alert to the possibility of corporate intervention in your personal rights.
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But its far easier for a corporation to go rogue in the current business environment than it is for our government.
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Do you get to vote as to who sits at the top of a business and makes decisions that will affect your life?
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If a business distributes itself multi-nationally can you be sure it follows all of the laws here.
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If businesses are solely responsible for millions of Americans incomes, how much power do they have over those people’s lives.
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Is the goal of a business to to provide for the common welfare? No, well its in the constitution, so its part of the government’s job.
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Businesses do not have to care, and while some do, many don’t. Leaving government in their hands is far worse than leaving government in the mob’s hands.

My response to earljr1 at 1.3 applies just as well to you. I’ve already asked myself the question, and can answer the question easily and honestly.
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Let’s see if you can do the same.
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In the scope of this question, it doesn’t matter whether you are GOP or Dem…

The diagnosis is quite simple, 53, make this a government of the people, for the people and BY the people. Impose term limits to kick professional money grabbers (ie. Charles Rangel) from the public trough and insist on 100% transparency in ALL government transactions. If anything and everything is under the microscope, that carcinoma you described (even small cell) is easily defeated.

GumOnShoe:
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“No, well its in the constitution, so its part of the government’s job.”
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Now that corporations are citizens too, whose welfare will be considered more important?
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The Constitution does not specifically define what “welfare” might be, so any interpretation of the Constitution will fall to corporate beholden politicians. Note the Supreme Court decision on this a few months ago.
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And you thought “strict constructionists” were bad…

Any carcinoma can prove fatal, 53, the key is early detection. Oat cell carcinoma in lung tissue is probably the most difficult, but can be successfully treated if it has not metastasized.

Do individual liberties jibe with government interests?
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No, the government tries to tell you what to buy, how to live, to buy medical care and knows better on how to spend your money
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Is “life, liberty, and happines” congruent to their aims?
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No if those goals are achieved the need for government is reduced essentially forcing hacks to find real work
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Is any equity issue a concern of government?
No, but that has not stopped them from enforcing their views on us.
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Will government stay out of your private lives?
No, buy health insurance, no soft drinks, no smoking, more taxes

I get what you mean.
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But Citizen was from 2008 so that was a long time for people, I mean corporations, I mean people-meh same difference-to get ready.

And even more to the point, Roberts (and Alito, and Scalia, and Thomas) were put on the Supreme Court by Republican presidents. As someone commented the other day, that alone should be reason enough to vote Democratic.

Do you get to vote as to who sits at the top of a business and makes decisions that will affect your life?
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Yes, it’s called shareholder voting
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If a business distributes itself multi-nationally can you be sure it follows all of the laws here.
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As sure as the government follows the laws here. Executive privilege does not apply to corporations but it does to Administrations
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If businesses are solely responsible for millions of Americans incomes, how much power do they have over those people’s lives.
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If the government can create laws and tax people to force them to buy or do certain things that far exceeds what a corporation may do
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Is the goal of a business to to provide for the common welfare? No, well its in the constitution, so its part of the government’s job.
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You misunderstand the definition of welfare in the constitution. Its to support equal opportunity not equal outcome and entitlements.
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You have a very twisted and naive view of the world.

Do you get to vote as to who sits at the top of a business and makes decisions that will affect your life?

Yes, it’s called shareholder voting

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That is only if you have enough money to buy in to vote, and we’re talking about a corporation here. Employees of a corporation might not own stock. People who interact with the company might not own stock. So, no, you don’t. And we moved away from only property owners voting a long time ago. Unless, you want to go back to that.
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If a business distributes itself multi-nationally can you be sure it follows all of the laws here.

As sure as the government follows the laws here. Executive privilege does not apply to corporations but it does to Administrations

Executive privilege is generally a crock of sh!t, no matter which party or president calls that one.
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And again, if you have a problem with the government, you should have a larger problem with businesses. There are more of them, and they are studied far less closely. Don’t forget, it was an american business to addict people to a substance & slowly kill them with it. Cigarettes being just one of that kind of product. There have been plenty of medicines and/or supplements that have had the same effect.
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Every institution is corruptible. Not having any institutions isn’t an option, so even a corruptible corruption finder is better than the alternative: nothing.

If businesses are solely responsible for millions of Americans incomes, how much power do they have over those people’s lives.

If the government can create laws and tax people to force them to buy or do certain things that far exceeds what a corporation may do

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Yeah, its not like corporations control food, oil, energy, or any other product’s prices. Your totally right. They also don’t charge more than what it costs to do business. They have never sought to profit (texting & data charges) with exuberant prices simply because they can.
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And there isn’t a single product (computers) that would create a barrier to entry in literally any profession.
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Is the goal of a business to to provide for the common welfare? No, well its in the constitution, so its part of the government’s job.

You misunderstand the definition of welfare in the constitution. Its to support equal opportunity not equal outcome and entitlements.

Who here called for equal outcome or entitlements? I may personally believe some of the “entitlements” are justified, but I wasn’t talking about those when I said the welfare of citizens. I’m talking about law enforcement, protection from fraud, security of property, life, & happiness. Businesses don’t care about any of those things. If your computer breaks, the computer company gets to sell you another computer because you NEED one. They don’t try to make you the best computer unless they have to, and they certainly don’t have to. Generalize, responsibly, that situation out to other businesses please. I’m not just talking about computers.

You have a very twisted and naive view of the world.

You don’t have a view at all. You’re blind.

Michael Crowley: “That’s what a pro-Obama friend told me ….”

Crowley’s “pro-Obama friend”?

Isn’t that redundant?

Does Crowley have any friends who aren’t Obama cultists? Does anyone at Time magazine? Does anyone at ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, CNN, A-Mess-NBC, HBO, Showtime, the New York Times-Democrat, the Washington Post-Democrat, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN News, ESPN Classic, ESPN U, ESPN 360.com, the Associated (with terrorists) Press, al Reuters, al Jazeera, al McClatchy, Oprah, Entertainment Tonight, Extra, the Insider, Good Housekeeping, Ladies’ Home Journal, et al.?

“And again, if you have a problem with the government, you should have a larger problem with businesses.”

Why corporations give us income, government takes it and re-distributes it. Businesses never have forced me to buy anything. The government will. Corporations advertise to get my businesses, government tells me what I should buy.
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Who here called for equal outcome or entitlements? I may personally believe some of the “entitlements” are justified, but I wasn’t talking about those when I said the welfare of citizens. I’m talking about law enforcement, protection from fraud, security of property, life, & happiness. Businesses don’t care about any of those things. If your computer breaks, the computer company gets to sell you another computer because you NEED one. They don’t try to make you the best computer unless they have to”
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Most of this is just psychosis. You wan ta daddy to fix everything for you. Businesses don’t care about law enforcement? You have no idea about business. The basis of capitalism is a law abiding state. Your computer breaks are you entitled to another one? They don’t make the best? The market will put that company out of business shortly. Unless they have to? They could make the best of everything. Then its a question of could you afford to pay for it, then you undoubtedly would blame the corporation for the price.
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Grow up!

“If the government can create laws and tax people to force them to buy or do certain things that far exceeds what a corporation may do…”
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…unless corporations control the government (they do), you cretin.

earljr: On October 12, in the Morning Must Read section, I posted a link on comment 24 just for you. I wont repeat my comments but suggest you read the link I am repeating. It is some statistical analysis of the use of US medical facilities by Canadians. The myth that you often repeat here is not proven by the facts. It is aptly titled Phantoms in the Snow.
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There is even an easily understood pie chart.
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Although you say your hospital has treated 100s of Canadians, it appears you may be exaggerating.
Since you once again are intent on having us recognize your medical prowess, that may be one area where you are commiting malpractice.
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The article is by Aaron Carroll, MD, MS associate director of Children’s Health Services Research Indiana University among other academic and professional accomplishments.
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http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/phantoms-in-the-snow/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheIncidentalEconomist+%28The+Incidental+Economist+%28Posts%29%29

Go back and take your paranoia meds, its time

evasions earljr1!
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Answer the question!

sorry, freeinpa, I already know your views about the government!
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Answer the questions!

Hey, to make a point to the GOPers, yet again:
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None of you have answered the questions at comment #4 I posed.
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All of you have substituted “government” for “corporate interests” and tried to hand it back to me.
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Answer the questions about corporate interests honestly and directly.
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What is wrong, are you arfaid to????

I did have someone read them to you and have them speak slowly. Not that there is a chance in hell of understanding them.
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But you have been quite busy with you paranoid delusional rants, so declare victory take a lap and go lie down.

Do individual liberties jibe with corporate interests?
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You mean those corporations like GE that make the medical imaging technology that saves the lives of people like my dad? Or Asus, Antec and Intel who made it possible for me to build the computer I’m typing on? Or 3M who made all sorts of cool things like tape and Velcro that I use every day? Or the energy companies that provide the electricity that powers almost everything we all do? Or the dreaded Health Insurance company that gives me a $20 co-pay on just about everything for fee of about $100 a month? Or the car company that made my car so I can go to work? Or the evil corporation that employs me, pays me, helps cover my health, dental and eye insurance and helps fund my eventual retirement?
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Those corporations? I’d have to say yes, and you should agree because they provide just about everything you have.

Is “life, liberty, and happiness [sic]” congruent to their aims?
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See above. Without those things, I’d be a lot less happy and possibly dead, leaving liberty which is useless to the deceased and those who have work so hard just to eek out a living that they don’t have time to use their freedoms.

Is any equity issue a concern of corporations?
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No, profit is their concern, as it is to every other living, breathing person. Maybe if you made something people wanted to buy, or provided a service they needed or wanted you’d understand that. I won’t wax the philosophical about income redistribution and the basic tenants of the founding of this country. But whatever happened to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY? If you’re broke, work harder, invent something. Can’t get that job you want because of lack of education? Get an education. Don’t cry like a little girl because you didn’t get everything you wanted in life; no one does, and you’re not entitled to crap if you don’t work for it. Life is not fair: get over it.
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Will corporations stay out of your private lives?
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Well, they won’t tell me what Health coverage to buy, what drugs I can do, who I can sleep with… or just about anything else the government intrudes on because THEY DON’T CARE. Does the CEO of Goldman Sachs care who you sleep with today? Tomorrow? Does it affect him if you get high? Does it affect him if you’re an idiot and don’t take care of yourself? No. None of those things affect him, hence he doesn’t care, hence he has no motive to meddle in your affairs.
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Here’s the thing. You subtly suggest that government intervention can create a utopia, however Utopia doesn’t exist, it never has and it never will; it’s a construct. “Utopia is not under the slightest obligation to produce results: it’s sole function is to allow its devotees to condemn what exists in the name of what does not.”

What is wrong, are you arfaid to????
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Yes to all. I have yet to have a company limit my freedoms, liberties or income on any level.
Government can’t make that claim.
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Now its when you continually argue with an idiot people eventually can’t tell the difference. So you are front and center as the idiot. You can continue to rant to yourself

Oh, two more things, earljr1:
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1. How does one make a government for the people and by the people when all politicians, whether Dem or GOP are beholden to corporate interests for their campaign money?
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This is the answer I am most concerned about!
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2. One of the most forceful points about Oates cell carcinoma is that if one misses that very narrow window, Oates cell metastasizes with incredible rapidity, among the fastest of all cancers.

I rest my case.
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Sasquatch didn’t make it either, freeinpa. Too bad.
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You see, though they haven’t done that to you, they have to others, which should be a concern, but of course, I know it’s not as far as your concerned.
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But, then again, freeinpa, you guys are taking money hand over fist from corporate interests. We all know the bottom line does not address even things you might hold dear, so when I ask the question, and you and sasquatch evade it, it tells me far more than you think about these concerns.
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You’ve professed to not like corruption. Well, ok. But how does one avoid corruption when the very politicians are bankrolled by corporate interests? Do you honestly think that if they decide to do something you don’t like, they will listen to you?
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A conservative would not be afraid to answer that question directly and honestly, and neither should anyone else…

Actually sasquatch, I’ll make a long story short:
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When you say I imply a “utopia” you are wrong, so show me where!
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Also, you missed the entire point, evaded the issue, and slid into a rant about government.
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That is NOT what I asked! I already know how you feel about government.
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But, you mention various CEOs being concerned:
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What if you smoke at home? What if you practice lifestyles they think will negatively affect the bottom line? What if you are endangering their bottom line with views that are inconsistent with it?
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Stay on task next time and answer the question directly, without diversion…

freeinpa:
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In your response at 4.6, you evaded the issue by substituting the word ‘government’ for ‘corporate interests’, and then proceeded to answer your own questions!
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I will speak very slowly:
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I………..did…………NOT……….ask………..about……….government!
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Answer the question as it is written!

“We will have no more choice than the Soviets had or the citizens of China now have. The only difference will be the set of choices we have to choose amongst.”
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53:
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What you don’t seem to grasp here is that if the country is run by your “democratic oligarchy” of corporations, or by Socialists or Communists the outcome is EXACTLY the same. Some faceless person who doesn’t know or care about you makes decisions for you.
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Personally I don’t care if that person is Steve Jobs or Barrack Obama, I don’t care for that sort of system no matter who runs it because it’s not “freedom” no matter how you slice it.
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If the country is taken over by “Big Government” or “Big Business” the ONLY difference is the second word, and you still lose your freedoms.
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As I’ve said before, what will happen when you set up this Big Government system to do everything, and tell you where to go and what to do when you get there and another George W. Bush is elected? What then? (Patrick had the novel idea of moving to Canada.) It all sounds freaking fantastic until you replace the leader you like with one you don’t. Then it sounds like a terrible idea and who the eff would have thought this up?! Well, you did, but by the time you realize what you’ve done it’s too late and we’re all screwed in the name of “Hope, Change and Progress”.
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Keep in mind that during the beginning of his reign Hitler was one of the most popular leaders of Germany ever (even to this day) until he took the country into a war it couldn’t win. People loved the way he restricted their rights and attacked capitalist businesses he didn’t like. People loved the social programs he enacted. People loved him, until it all came crashing down.
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(And no, I am not drawing a parallel between Obama and Hitler, merely pointing out how you might love everything about Big Government now, until it all comes crashing down around your ears leaving you wondering who the heck thought this was a good idea in the first place.)

53:
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I don’t know what you think is going on, but apparently you and I have serious differences on what reality is. You asked a series of questions, which I will repost here:

“Ask yourselves these questions:
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Do individual liberties jibe with corporate interests?
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Is “life, liberty, and happines” congruent to their aims?
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Is any equity issue a concern of corporations?
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Will corporations stay out of your private lives?”
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I then answered each in turn, with my answer directly below your question. Each answer was directed towards the question, though on the first one I did ask a lot of rhetorical questions in my answer.
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Bottom line, I answered your questions in a direct way, I did not you miss the point, nor did I evade a single issue, nor did I rant about government (just ask patrick what a rant about the government from me looks like, it’s pages long in Word). Why you would accuse me of this I have no idea.
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Further, it’s impossible to talk about corporate interests without involving the government because both parties are totally in bed with Wall Street, and just because you don’t like that fact doesn’t make it any less true..
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Just because you don’t like my answers doesn’t make me evasive, nor does it mean I missed the point. The fact that you would “scream” in your bold letters that these things happened only goes to show that you’re the one who’s “evading” because you don’t like the answers you’re getting and/or you don’t understand the answers you’re getting which scares you.

Two hours left before Thursday…there’s still time…
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jr: “make this a government of the people, for the people and BY the people. Impose term limits…”
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Bingo. Here, in a nutshell, is what irritates me about the GOP:
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Term Limits
Tort Reform
Permanent Tax Cuts
etc.
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The GOP controlled all 3 f#cking branches of gov’t from 2000-2006, and none of these “hot button” issues were enacted. Yet, they’re *still* talking points in 2010. Why is that?
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To put it another way: What will it take for the GOP sheeple to realize they are getting played??!?

Go back to that thread, april, you will see that I answered your attempted snark. Your progressive blinders have you grasping at straws (yet again). Many of our Canadian patients are here because of a serious surgical backlog in their system and many times are put in a holding pattern for months, before a procedure can be scheduled. Your ongoing quest for socialized medicine is well known, april and I know that it distresses you most Americans disagree with your long festering desire. Many of the votes cast in November, will be a complete rejection of your political persuasion and Obamacare will play a major role in that final tally. Perhaps you should go north for your medical care, april, take your number and wait with everyone else. Our well functioning health delivery system will benefit from having one less “needy” progressive patient filling up our waiting rooms. You will not be missed.

Give it a rest 53. Your badgering is getting old.

To the point of the article. Creating a generation of cynics is exactly what hopey changey did. The bright side is once we get rid of Jimmy Carter II, we can have a new blossoming economy and rid ourselves of all the socialism and overpaid government employees.

I think I’ve made my point…

So earljr you have statistics that back your anecdotal testimony here about Canadian’s coming to America? Can you share that information with us? As a doctor, I assume you believe in scientific evidence and documentation.

“More voters under age 30 say it does not matter which party controls Congress than support either party in control”

Can’t imagine why.

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2010/08/09/by-the-balls/

It’s not just the under 30 set that is cynical.

“Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”
has been a mantra since the ’60s.

I wish I could agree with the tea party sentiment of throw the bums out, but the people they want to put in are batsh!t crazy. It’s a sad day when i have to choose between a crook, a liar or a maniac.

sasquatch08,
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My Compliments.
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You write some of the most rational and intelligent comments made on this site.
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Unfortunately there are many people on the Left, who comment here, that are totally irrational and only believe in a Big Government approach to running our country. It is impossible to engage ideologues such as 53, Patrick, Apr, Kevin, Shepherdwrong, Afguy, or Momentomi and a few others. You are just wasting your time trying to debate them. They will never accept rational ideas.
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They truly believe that Big Business is Evil. They will not be satisfied unless we have some form of Big Government managing everything. The vast majority of Big Business CEOs and Management are honorable people that are not going to engage in activities that purposely harm our country or its citizens. To demonize these people is totally wrong.
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Yes, indeed, april, I checked with our medical records department this morning and a quick check showed that we did in-patient procedures on 43 Canadians in the past year and an additional 71 were done on an out-patient basis. Keep in mind, these folks paid out of their own pocket (as much as 105k) to get this care, so this SHOULD be an indication as to how back logged their system actually is. However, I am dealing with a washed up old socialist here, so I doubt ANY fact would dissuade your notion of the “perfect” Godless nation you so fervently desire.

Apr,
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Did you read Earl’s reply post 1.13 ?
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It appears he has proven you wrong again for the maybe 20th time.
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Apr I can’t believe all this LW ideology is making you happy.
Why don’t you find a hobby that is more rewarding?

Actually 1971, the Who. Great song, great band.

Great, now put it on and sit in the corner.