In the Arena

Election Road Trip, Day 20: No More War

Rocky Rajkowski Town Hall meeting in Birmingham, Michigan. Photograph by Peter van Agtmael - Magnum for TIME


Henderson, Nevada

Traveling Companions: None

Event: Interview with GOP Congressional Candidate Joe Heck

So far as I can tell after three weeks on the road, there is little or no support among the public for the war in Afghanistan. The most I can come up with is an occasional, half-hearted “We need to fight the terrorists over there” or “The generals know better than I do.” And this is not just true of Democrats. In Birmingham, Michigan, two weeks ago, I attended a town meeting held by the Republican Congressional candidate Rocky Raczkowski, a Major in the U.S. Army reserve, just returned from a tour in Afghanistan. (Correction: Actually, his last tour was in Somalia–JK)His position: “Unless we change the rules of engagement, we should bring the troops home tomorrow.” He was referring to the very strict guidelines against causing civilian casualties that have U.S. soldiers fighting, as one told me, “in handcuffs” against the Taliban. There was little pushback from his conservative Republican audience. When one man asked Raczkowski if he saw any prospect of the rules of engagement changing, Raczkowski said no. “So what should we do?” the man pressed. “As I said before, if the rules of engagement don’t change, we should leave,” Raczkowski replied.

According to the Pew Research Center, 48% of Americans support keeping troops in Afghanistan, down from 57% in 2009. But a recent Quinnipiac poll showed that 58% of people agreed that “eliminating the threat from terrorists operating from Afghanistan is a worthwhile goal for American troops to fight and possibly die for,” that’s 72% of Republicans and 48% of Democrats. Point of comparison: in 1968, 53% of Americans said it was a “mistake” to send troops to Vietnam. - Katy Steinmetz

Yesterday, I spoke with another Republican Congressional candidate–and member of the Army reserves–Joe Heck in Henderson, a suburb of Las Vegas. He was less sweeping than Raczkowski, but skeptical all the same, “We need to know what the end point is, what victory looks like, in Afghanistan.” Does it mean a complete military defeat of the Taliban? The elimination of the terrorist threat? The building of an Afghan army–or an entire Afghan government? Heck wasn’t about to put his own definition of victory on the table, but said that if clarity didn’t come soon, “We should leave.”

Less knowledgeable civilians are completely perplexed by the war–and wondering why we’re spending so much money over there at a moment when we’re struggling back here. When I try to explain that it has to do with stabilizing the region, that it’s mostly about our need to make Pakistan–with its 80 nukes and history of Islamist army coups–feel more secure, eyes quickly glaze over.

This is a factor that should guide the President in the December policy review: if he decides to dial back in Afghanistan–to Joe Biden’s less ambitious model, perhaps–he will be noisily criticized by the neoconservatives (who seem a far more significant presence in Washington than they do out in the country), but most civilians will either not care or not mind. Indeed, one of the most interesting battles within the Republican party between now and 2012 will be the tussle between neocons and libertarians. The former will be pushing for more war, especially with Iran, and for “victory” in Afghanistan–similar to the mirage of “victory” they proclaimed in Iraq; the latter will be pushing for an end to foreign adventures, smaller defense budgets, lower taxes. America’s actual security needs lie somewhere between these extremes.

This post is part of my Election Road Trip 2010 project. To track my location across the country, and read all my road trip posts, click here.

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  • Ike Jakson

    Joe

    “So far as I can tell after three weeks on the road, there is little or no support among the public for the war in Afghanistan.”

    You could have stayed home; there was no need to go on any trip to find out about this. Heck man, the country has been saying it for more than a year and your own readers have been telling you the same for how long? Tut tut.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Such a common but ugly sentiment. “If we can’t just kill people indiscriminantly then what’s the point?”
    .
    This is of course a direct result of people being convinced that Islam is the enemy.

  • textee

    Whatever happened to that so-called “civil war” that the anti-American community (particularly its media arm, i.e., the Washington/New York/American/Arab/European/Martian press corps) insisted existed in Iraq?

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    yeah, good question…..
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/17/iraq-suicide-bomb-military-recruits
    .
    I offer this as evidence that news coverage or the lack thereof actually defines some people’s reality. Journalists take note. If you don’t report it, it doesn’t exist.

  • formerlyjames

    That struck me as well. Not that the war has stumbled along since the initial invasion, not that the defined purpose of the initial invasion has been mangled to extend the war, not that we can’t impose our culture on others, not that it is an obscene waste of money and lives. But that our hands are being tied with this sissy notion that innocent civilians should be protected. Heard that before, like Viet Nam. I don’t see much of a jump in this logic to use of nuclear weapons (just maybe the little artillery shells for now) I am opposed to continuation but would be wary of joining this kind of opposition.
    .
    I also that agree the neocons are extremists, but don’t agree that an opposing position (libertarians) “pushing for an end to foreign adventures, smaller defense budgets…” is in the least extremist (I leave the tax part aside).

  • newfreedomblog

    As usual Mr Klein has no clue what-so-ever as to what most or the majority of people think out in middle America.
    .
    Despite “eyes glazing over” which I fully doubt is the case, more the delusions in Joe Klein’s mind, people as a whole are sick and tired of war, period. People are tired of all the money we have spent, and in some cases wasted on the “fight against terrorism”. Especially now that the Obama Administration is in charge, and have a liberal mindset on how to fight this war. Basically as Rajkowski said, “As I said before, if the rules of engagement don’t change, we should leave”
    .
    Not a truer statement could be made.
    .
    Then today this has shown up on Drudge.
    .
    http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/09/25/books.destroyed/index.html
    .

    “Washington (CNN) — The Department of Defense recently purchased and destroyed thousands of copies of an Army Reserve officer’s memoir in an effort to safeguard state secrets, a spokeswoman said Saturday.
    .
    “DoD decided to purchase copies of the first printing because they contained information which could cause damage to national security,” Pentagon spokeswoman Lt. Col. April Cunningham said.”

    .
    My oh my, ever since we got a copy of Woodward’s new book, is this what we shall see going forward from the Obama Administration? Buying up all the books anyone who is directly or has been directly involved in this war? Tsk tsk, Mr Obama. We will know eventually.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “the neoconservatives (who seem a far more significant presence in Washington than they do out in the country)”
    .
    Gosh, you really think so?

  • newfreedomblog

    This could also be a good reason to stay and fight as well.
    .
    But, I guess liberals will protect and defend the Taliban’s right to do this, not in the name of Islam, however of course. I mean, you can’t condemn the entire Muslim religion for things like this can you? Should you?
    .
    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/rare-video-shows-taliban-allegedly-stoning-woman-death/story?id=11717682
    .

    Rare Video Shows Taliban Allegedly Stoning Woman to Death in Pakistan

  • afguy

    Rusty,
    .
    You DO realize that the headline said Pakistan, don’t you?
    .
    Exactly WHAT does sticking around to blow the crap out of Afghanistan have to do with a Pakistani incident?
    .
    It’s a horrible practice in places like Saudi Arabia and other countries too, but I hear no calls to take them on over this.
    .
    Exacly how do you think staying the course in Afghanistan will stop the practice in other countries? Deterrence by example? In case you hadn’t noticed, a lot of these countries don’t exactly care about each other – they are united to a degree because they hate us even more.
    .
    We had enough weapons to destroy the USSR about 10 times over, and couldn’t make them behave the way we wanted them to.
    .
    It’s really easy to call for more war over there if it’s not YOUR sorry a$$ fighting, getting killed and deployed over and over…

  • afguy

    Such a common but ugly sentiment. “If we can’t just kill people indiscriminantly then what’s the point?”
    .
    Paul,.
    .
    It’s worse than that. It’s more of “if we can’t just send someone else to do the indiscriminate killing”. We’re becoming so removed personally from the violence that it’s an abstraction.
    .
    Like reading an article about something tragic and asking, “Why doesn’t SOMEONE do SOMETHING about this? This is terrible!”
    .
    Quite a different matter when it’s YOU or the child of a friend or relative whose being sent to take care of this particular “outrage”, and it doesn’t directly reflect an issue of US national security.
    .
    Things can become a lot less “outrageous” when we each have personal “skin” in the game.

  • afguy

    Yeah, Paul, that war’s “over”.
    .
    It was in all the papers and on teevee too. Complete with an imbedded reporter with an “exclusive” and everything.
    .
    We “won”…. and now only have a “support” role.
    .
    Didn’t you get the memo?

  • apr2563

    Paul, I know, I know. Klein is the least self-reflective writer I have ever encountered. And, then he mentions the less knowing, “sordid” masses that can’t understand his nuanced explanations. After supporting and promoting war in Iraq and Afghanastan, Joe is still hoping for a “little more” war. He is the expert you know.
    .
    I am sorry. Klein has caused me to have a syndrome known as KISS: Klein is So Shallow.

  • stuartzechman

    Joe Klein:
    .
    the latter will be pushing for an end to foreign adventures, smaller defense budgets, lower taxes. America’s actual security needs lie somewhere between these extremes.
    .
    What’s “extreme” about that position?
    .
    It’s just a position. It’s not your position, but it’s not “extreme,” either.
    .
    One might say that your position –miring ourselves year after year in hostile, and unconquerable occupied Muslim lands at the cost of 6 billion US tax-payer dollars a month as some kind of undeclared, unaccountable “check” against the possible results of internal Pakistani political instability– is quite extreme and unrealistic. Ludicrous, even, like the neoconservatives’ “marching democracy” fantasies.
    .
    …And deeply unpopular, too.
    .
    Isn’t yours the extreme position here, Joe Klein?

  • Paul-no not that one

    apr, you know the most frustrating part -to me anyway-is that Joe is clearly locked in but rather than use that access to get information, check, and then think on it he just repeats the military’s position.
    .
    The time he has spent in the field is honorable but he ends up serving his sources more than his reader.
    .
    We saw a perfect example of this on this road trip where he just reported the silly rantings of someone who a generation ago would have been railing about the lady he knew who took her Cadillac to the store to buy lobster with her food stamps.

  • destor23

    Our actual security needs are assuredly not in the middleground as you describe it. The middle solution will lead to war without point and without end.

  • herby002

    “My oh my, ever since we got a copy of Woodward’s new book, is this what we shall see going forward from the Obama Administration? Buying up all the books anyone who is directly or has been directly involved in this war? Tsk tsk, Mr Obama. We will know eventually.”

    Did you get a copy of Woodward’s book? If not, you can buy one at most book stores, or on Amazon. See, it’s for sale. No one from “the Obama Administration” has bout up all available copies, so what’s your point?

    “”Washington (CNN) — The Department of Defense recently purchased and destroyed thousands of copies of an Army Reserve officer’s memoir in an effort to safeguard state secrets, a spokeswoman said Saturday.
    .
    “DoD decided to purchase copies of the first printing because they contained information which could cause damage to national security,” Pentagon spokeswoman Lt. Col. April Cunningham said.”

    Note that it wasn’t “the Administration” that bought the books. It was the DOD, because “they contained information which could cause damage to national security,” Get that? National security. And they didn’t seek to ban the book (unlike the Pentagon Papers case), they asked that sensitive information be deleted – which was done. You can buy the amended version.

    New, you appear to be willing for military missions to be compromised, and for soldiers to be killed, just to satisfy your need to take lame potshots at your political opponents. Is that correct?

  • michaelfury

    “an end to foreign adventures, smaller defense budgets, lower taxes”

    How is this “extreme”, Mr. Klein?

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/forever-war/

  • michaelfury

    Every time you censor this part of the explanation, “eyes quickly glaze over”, Mr. Klein:

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/the-gas-must-flow/

  • oizydoizy

    If you want to win hearts and minds, the military is the wrong tool for the job. The military is a big gun, and no one hammers nails with a gun — at least not for very long.

    War is by definition ugly, and has collateral damage. It ought to be, so that we think twice about resorting to it. It reflects our politicians’ laziness, and therefore our own, that armed force is one of our foremost political tools. The American public wants a guarantee to be 100% safe from Terror forever after, and it’s the military’s job to make it so. BS. The public has to learn to control its emotions so the military can deal with the national security threats it’s designed to fight.

    The major is right. If you send him in, accept the fact that civilians will die. So don’t send him in if you can’t accept that.

  • afguy

    …like the neoconservatives’ “marching democracy” fantasies.
    .
    Stuart,
    .
    Is this the “flip side” of the “domino theory” we came to know and love from Vietnam and the Cold War™?

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