What Christine O’Donnell Got Wrong About Thomas Jefferson

Well it makes a good “Bumper Sticker” along with the entire GOP Policy.
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Unfortunately bumper stickers do not make for good government.

Well at least she didn’t get it embroidered on a rug for her office.

Bumper stickers make not make good government but they cost less than rugs so if you are wrong, I’d go with the bumper sticker

LOL!!

Who cares? Christine O’Donnell is a smart, sensible, seductive candidate who will be a sensational U.S. Senator.

LOL!! So they can’t prove that it wasn’t Jefferson eh? But the supreme leader’s new rug displays an OBVIOUS misquote? Maybe Joe Bite me was in charge of researching that quote.

According to the excellent researchers there at TIME, whose words are these?
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“I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.”
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http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2010/09/10/ghosts-in-the-machine/

“Comedian Eddie Izzard pressed her on just how far she would take her anti-lying beliefs. Izzard asked O’Donnell whether or not she would lie to Nazis who showed up at her door during WWII and demanded to know if she were hiding any Jewish people in her house. O’Donnell refused to even entertain the notion of concealing the truth from Nazis in that scenario because “you never have to practice deception”:O’DONNELL: A lie, whether it be a lie or an exaggeration, is disrespect to whoever you’re exaggerating or lying to, because it’s not respecting reality.

MAHER: Quite the opposite, it can be respect.

IZZARD: What if someone comes to you in the middle of the Second World War and says, ‘do you have any Jewish people in your house?’ and you do have them. That would be a lie. That would be disrespectful to Hitler.

O’DONNELL: I believe if I were in that situation, God would provide a way to do the right thing righteously. I believe that!

MAHER: God is not there. Hitler’s there and you’re there.

O’DONNELL: You never have to practice deception. God always provides a way out”

O’Donnell: I Wouldn’t Lie To Hitler Even If There Was A Jewish Person Hiding In The House

Perfectly pronounced powerpoultry!

“CHRISTINE O’DONNELL, Concerned Women for America: Well, as the senator from Tennessee mentioned, evolution is a theory and it’s exactly that. There is not enough evidence, consistent evidence to make it as fact, and I say that because for theory to become a fact, it needs to consistently have the same results after it goes through a series of tests. The tests that they put — that they use to support evolution do not have consistent results. Now too many people are blindly accepting evolution as fact. But when you get down to the hard evidence, it’s merely a theory. But creation —

Whoops. Technically, evolution is a theory in the scientific-nomenclature sense, but it’s so widely accepted by every legitimate scientist in the world that it is considered fact. Not enough evidence? Tests with inconsistent results? It sounds like she’s talking about rumors that Lady Gaga has a penis, not a basic foundation of biology. What’s with all the dubiousness?

CHRISTINE O’DONNELL: Now, he said that it’s based on fact. I just want to point out a couple things. First of all, they use carbon dating, as an example, to prove that something was millions of years old. Well, we have the eruption of Mt. Saint Helens and the carbon dating test that they used then would have to then prove that these were hundreds of millions of years younger, when what happened was they had the exact same results on the fossils and canyons that they did the tests on that were supposedly 100 millions of years old. And it’s the kind of inconsistent tests like this that they’re basing their ‘facts’ on.

We Googled this and apparently it refers to some tests run by a guy at the Institute for Creation Research. Definitely the kind of stuff on which you want to pin your refutation of evolution. Well, at least O’Donnell didn’t claim that there is just as much or more evidence for creationism as there is for evolution, right?

CHRISTINE O’DONNELL: Well, creationism, in essence, is believing that the world began as the Bible in Genesis says, that God created the Earth in six days, six 24-hour periods. And there is just as much, if not more, evidence supporting that.”

Thank you Derek. We can learn several things from your post.
First, radical Left wing liberals like you and Maher agree with the quran and Islam. Lying is OK if you do it to your perceived enemies.
Second, radical left is preoccupied with Hitler. Secret admiration, perhaps??
Third, we should never have to worry about Christine O’Donnell lying to us. Quite different than those currently in Washington these days.

I’m sure if the Texas School Board had their way American students would believe it was ThoJeff who said those words.

Not that they’re big fans of ThoJeff because of his religious beliefs.

But, hey, give them time and I’m sure they will reinvent ThoJeff as a card carrying member of the Religious Right.

But, Jefferson did say the following;
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“Whenever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government; that whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights.”
Thomas Jefferson to Richard Price, January 8, 1789″

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http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/jefferson_papers/mtjquote.html
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In other words one could say “When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty.”

So the radical left sets a course to destroy capitalism, our economy and our form of government and you bring up some silly ridiculous religious argument?
I don’t care if she worships cream cheese, as long as she follows the Constitution and the direction that our founders set us off in centuries ago and does everything within her legal rights to reverse the garbage that has been thrust upon this country without our consent.

Ooooohhhh nfb, this isn’t going to sit well with the left wing radicals. How dare you provide facts to support your argument and defend a conservative woman (Christian, no less)?

ricardo4max I’m not an expert in Freeper logic, other than the half semester I took on logical fallacies, but how did I become a follower of Islam?

SZ- yes. after reading this post I agree..TIME is center right. You are the smartest Libbie here. But that quote from you yesterday was so disengenuous. TIME is as liberal as the NY Times and MSNBC. It was so predictable that if o’Donnell won it would be the media’s job to try and tear her down.Oh that ” nutty” O’donnell

Those of us who respect this nation and its founding fathers refer to him as Thomas Jefferson or Mr. Jefferson. You are surely no southern belle but southern BELL, I might believe.

ricardo4max do you believe the universe is only 6,000 years old?

I have no idea what Freeper is but I do know that you are not well versed in logic or reason of any kind.
Here it is in English one last time. What you and Maher HAVE IN COMMON with the quran and Islam is that you all believe that lying is OK if you do it to your perceived enemies. No more do overs for you now.
Maybe you are a follower of Islam as well since you brought it up are you? Or do you just have some things in common?

So turning the Jews over to Hitler for extermination would have been the ethical thing to do, correct?

“I have no idea what Freeper is but I do know that you are not well versed in logic or reason of any kind.
Here it is in English one last time. What you and Maher HAVE IN COMMON with the quran and Islam is that you all believe that lying is OK if you do it to your perceived enemies. No more do overs for you now.
Maybe you are a follower of Islam as well since you brought it up are you? Or do you just have some things in common?”
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So what you’re saying is that if a Nazi asked you if you were hiding any Jews you would say yes?

I am not really certain how old the universe is. There are many theories, scientific and otherwise. As a trained scientist, I tend to believe those with the most scientific and logical arguments. I cannot, however, disprove the existence of a higher power or that such higher power had a hand in the creation just because there exist some scientific explanations for natural phenomena.
Interesting how you try the old liberal tactic of attacking me and my beliefs rather than disputing my statement that Ms. O’Donnell’s political beliefs are what matters not her religious ones.
BTW, I am NOT a Christian nor a member of any formal or organized religion.

ricardo4max if you are trained in the scientific method why would you feel it is incumbent upon you to prove that God does not exist? Isn’t that the same as trying to prove a negative, which is a logical fallacy?

http://www.theonion.com/articles/evangelical-scientists-refute-gravity-with-new-int,1778/

I know O’Donnell is the new toy for the liberal lame stream media to play with, but when do you suppose we may have some insight and reporting on her opponent, Mr Coon?
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Perhaps this article in Politico may nudge our TIME.com reporters to do a little digging into the background and past of Mr Coon.
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http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36726.html
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“My friends now joke that something about Kenya, maybe the strange diet, or the tropical sun, changed my personality; Africa to them seems a catalytic converter that takes in clean-shaven, clear-thinking Americans and sends back bearded Marxists,” Coons wrote.

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Coon also rants that he was once a card carrying member of the Republican Party until this trip to Kenya, which has seemed to have affected not only his personal beliefs, but his political persuasions.
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How about it TIME.com, do you have what it takes to do a little more digging? A little more investigating into Mr Coons? Or, will it just be more tabloid-like journalism which will never inform voters of their choices?

What’s the percentage of Time magazine employees who have no clue that Obama’s ridiculous oval office rug claims to feature a “quote” from Martin Luther King that is not a “quote” from Martin Luther King? 99.9%? 100%?

BTW, have any of Obama’s useful idiots/dupes/minions/cronies/political activists/political operatives/political lobbyists from the White House/Washington/New York/American/Arab press corps asked Obama why his ridiculous rug contains no quotes from a Hispanic, an Asian, a Native American, a woman, a homosexual, a snail darter and an oak tree?

Sorry, RiMax.

And that’s Ms Bell to you.

Is that a surprise? Tea Baggers site as inspiration things the founding fathers never said, never did, never meant, and never stood for all the time.

a) creationism is not a viable theory, is not a fact, is not even worth giving lip service to.

b) anyone who spends this much time talking about religious beilefs to start with shouldnt be holding public office.

c) if these theocratic nutcases find a way to get enough power in this country, the constitution and our personal freedoms are more in trouble than by any perceived threats from the (middle of the road) lefts like Obama.

d) l only laugh at these morons because it hurts too much to see that the anti-intellectualism, anti-logic of the extreme right is a sick and frightening trend towards the dark ages.

ricard: Derek believes that all conservative think alike. He obviously failed his half semester and is confused about which group thinks alike.

I do find it amusing that the “intellectual” left provides as evidence of the fallacy of conservative philosophy nonsense from John Stewart, Bill Maher and Tina Fey.

Fitting since the entire liberal philosophy is the work of clowns.

Really you want to analyze statements from a candidate from a state that gave us Joe Biden the human gaffe machine?

Just look at their interpretation of the constitution. Ignoring what’s there, ignoring what our founding fathers said about it but it’s always about their version of constitution.
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They’re not worried about anything O’Donnell might say or do as long as she’s not a ‘librul’. ‘Cause Coons called himself a bearded Marxist when he was 21 and that means something.
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Quite Frankly – we need these people to be elected so they can show why 8 years of Bush was a bad idea. Regular low information voters need to see once and for all that it’s not about which candidate they vote for, but what those candidates stands for. The tea party candidates are the kind of people who would never stand a chance because they stand for absolutely nothing. And the people backing them are so upset, mad and emotional that they don’t care.
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Electing nutb@lls regardless if they’re liberal or conservatives isn’t the answer to change our corporately owned political system; it’s simply to cement the fact that we don’t have a pragmatic response to our problems.

Actually, rustyblog, Jefferson was expressing the opinion that educated people can be relied upon to fix their own social/government problems. Your paraphrase is far-fetched, even for a racist ignoramus such as yourself.

Don’t let the limey lecture you on patriotism Ms Bell.

So conservatives who dismiss the validity of “separation of church and state” because the phrase came from a private letter written by Thomas Jefferson are now running to find support in private letters by Thomas Jefferson? Good to know.

“Seductive”? And you people think liberals have a cult of personality around Obama? Get a grip.

freeinpa is that a yes or a no?

Derek believes that all conservative think alike.
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And where would he get a silly idea like that?
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It’s not like conservatives out there refer to themselves as Dittoheads or anything mindless like that.

MS, very good article btw. As for the Jefferson quote, just typical right wing ignorant sound bites at play, as we can see above. I am ambivalent about the tea party. One minute I am anxious the next I think “What, me worry?”. It is little known that Alfred E. Newman borrowed that quote from Herbert Hoover.

So the radical left sets a course to destroy capitalism, our economy and our form of government
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Oh, no one here is trying to do anything with your economy or your form of government, Ricardo.

We’re talking about the USA, not the UK.

I think that you’ve mixed up “liberal” with “Democrat.”
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These are not the same things.
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One kind of Democrat, i.e. “liberal,” respects ordinary people, and doesn’t treat them with reflexive contempt and loathing.
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The other kind of Democrat does:
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http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/09/16/christine-odonnell-and-the-politics-of-abstinence/comment-page-1/#comment-200851
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That other kind of Democrat also happens to loathe liberal Democrats and what we stand for.
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TIME Magazine’s editorial policy is usually aligned with that other kind of Democrats’ agenda.

to which question. In between you mindless drivel and your inability to discern who you are condemning in any given post I would need a NASA link-up to follow which one you mean at a given time since to blather at all ends

I havbe to ask.. Which Democrat are the majority of Democratic posters here?

One kind of Democrat, i.e. “liberal,” respects ordinary people, and doesn’t treat them with reflexive contempt and loathing.

Ah there is that tolerant non-bigoted left they always tell us about.

“the majority of Democratic posters”
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Do you mean the pro writers, or the commenters?

You’re so cranky.
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I explained how I was praising the TPers to you down below.
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In a bad mood for some reason?

And isn’t surprising that liberals stand for nothing except how to destroy and weaken a country that grew from nothing to the single greatest country in the world.

Patriotism, the Constitution, freedom— all punch lines for liberals.

What no one has bothered to mention, including Scherer, is Tim McVeigh. The day terrorist McVeigh bombed the Murrah Federal Building, he carried with him a bumper sticker that read, “When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.” The citation was there attributed to Samuel Adams. Underneath, McVeigh had scrawled, “Maybe now, there will be liberty!”

We should be alarmed that a Republican candidate for U.S. Senate inaugurates her campaign with a quotation cited by Timothy McVeigh as a reason to kill Americans & do violence against the government. Two days ago, the Republicans gave O’Donnell short shrift. Yesterday, Texas Sen. John Cornyn, who holds the NRSC purse strings, heartily embraced O’Donnell & sent her a $42,000 check.

This, then, is what the Republican party has come to: an organization with a prominent member who allies herself with violent, anti-American terrorists. There is a difference, of course. Timothy McVeign shoveled real fertilizer to commit his murders; so far the fertilizer O’Donnell is spreading is strictly rhetorical.

The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com

“In a bad mood for some reason?”
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Yes. Tired of the endless nonsense from the left where they sensationalize every minor detail of the right scream foul when its done to the left, then complain non-stop about all the attention someone gets for which they are the main cause.

On the plus side, the Tea Party will grow in strength because of the idiocy of the left. They think the Tea Party is a joke but the joke will be on them. I doubt we will hear the laughter though.

Well both– just curious

Well turn that frown upside down!
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As you say the TPers will grow stronger and stronger.

“Is that a surprise? Tea Baggers site as inspiration things the founding fathers never said, never did, never meant, and never stood for all the time.”

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You are correct without a doubt, one should check their source out before quoting someone, who may not have said what you claim.
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Does the same hold true of liberal sites, who quote often the likes of Karl Marx, Sal Alinsky, Cloward/Piven, and Mickey Mouse?

freeinpa it must be difficult for you to follow a chain of discussion for a whole 3 posts.

One should also discern from the Democrat TROLLS and those who align themselves with the Democrat Party who do debate and discuss without all of the Democrat TROLLS’s third grade name calling.
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Isn’t that right mr zechman?

“It’s not like conservatives out there refer to themselves as Dittoheads or anything mindless like that.”

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As opposed to liberals who are delusional and belief they think for themselves and yet every response to every issue they all use the same language and phrasing to attack. I guess it could be attributed to a genetic disorder that doesn’t allow 99% of the brain to operate

freep, talk about sensationalizing every trivial thing… you’re the clown prince of doing that. your responses to almost every post on this site are off-topic and refer to non-issues.

Well textee, at least we know where you get your news now.
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http://www.davidduke.com/general/the-obama-oval-office-rug-scandal_19395.html

More on the Oval Office Scandal™ Freepy is referring to, for those that don’t follow the same news outlets as the right-wingers.
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http://www.davidduke.com/general/the-obama-oval-office-rug-scandal_19395.html

“And isn’t surprising that liberals stand for nothing except how to destroy and weaken a country that grew from nothing to the single greatest country in the world.

Patriotism, the Constitution, freedom— all punch lines for liberals.”
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This is obviously not a intellectual argument of yours otherwise you would support your argument with facts.
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I can distinct between partisans – or ideologues and people who believe in a ideology. It’s one thing to be of a particular political leaning and embrace its ideas. It’s an entirely different thing to be a partisan. Facts don’t penetrate partisans nor is it about a philosophical argument. It’s more like a big ball of mud of baloney. Come back to me when you can articulate the idea of Patriotism and freedom and how it fits into the framework of our constitution. Trust me when I say this – it doesn’t start with ‘libruls’ are evil.

Patriotism, the Constitution, freedom— all punch lines for liberals.

Oh come on now. That’s utterly false and patently ridiculous. You show you true nature when you make such comments.
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The vast majority of liberals are patriots that love their country, the Constitution and freedom just as much, if not more so, than the next guy. We just disagree with people like you as to what constitutes “best” and how to get there. You should be tired of this kind of demonization of your fellow Americans. I know I sure am.

Trust me when I say this – it doesn’t start with ‘libruls’ are evil.

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No, it starts out saying “Libruls are just plain STOOPID”.

Constant….constant…….constant.
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Now we shouldn’t associate someone with what some other idiot has said in the past, right?
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One should also discern from the Democrat TROLLS and those who align themselves with the Democrat Party who do debate and discuss without all of the Democrat TROLLS’s third grade name calling.

No, it starts out saying “Libruls are just plain STOOPID”.

You couldn’t be more of an ignorant assclown rustyblogwhore, and a hypocritical one at that.

As a rule, Democrats are not Dittoheads. As has been said many times about the political party I have belonged to my entire adult life, getting us all on the same page is like herding cats.

Politics tends to still be very local to us. An example of this attitude in contrast to how Republicans have become a national party cultivating a “brand” is that here in Minnesota we still have the DFL – the Democratic-Farmer-Labor party. The state GOP used to also have a homegrown version: the IR – the Independent Republican party. But that name was abandonned years ago and now, for the most part, the moderates are gone and the far-right conservatives are in charge and they follow national party line.

“No, it starts out saying “Libruls are just plain STOOPID”.
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Your comedic talent aside – no wonder you’re having such a fluid relationship with our constitution.

So, Freepy, Ricardo, do you agree with David Duke’s comment that:
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The “Magic Negro” in the Oval Office is so astonishingly ignorant he can’t even find a legitimate quote from a Black historical figure, that wasn’t plagiarized from a White man.

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A simple yes or no should suffice.

I feel kind of bad for Emmer here in Minnesota.
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He’s totally on par with Angle, Paul, Palin (she endorsed him) and the rest but gets no love it seems.

Ah, David Duke, the heart and soul of the modern Republican Party rears his ugly racist head again to reveal that he is the source of one of the so-called “controversies”.
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Then the right wing wonders why they are associated with KKK.

“…smart, sensible, seductive candidate who will be a sensational U.S. Senator.”
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Smart?
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Not if you saw her claims about evolution.
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“sensible” Not really considering her claim when she was 27 years old that masturbation is a new and big problem when it is a fact that, besides house pets, all of the primates masturbate.
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Seductive? Well, she’s kinda hot, but, being a US Senator rarely involves working nights at the local strip club, but, since she only earned $5,800 last year, she might need the money.
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sensational U.S. Senator?
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I don’t even know where to begin with that.

And the Dayton name still means a lot here in MN. I came to MN from the South to attend university and the first credit card I ever owned was a Dayton’s card, that could also be used at Target.

Great comment!
Parts a) and b) especially!!
….and …..yes: c) and d).

Freakinpa,
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Izzard’s question was a standard when refuting some of the aspects of Emanuel Kant’s philosophy.
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Although, obviously, it is extraordinarily rare, there are times when lying is more moral than telling the truth.
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When a drunk person refusing a ride home asks if you know where he left his car keys – good time to lie.
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When a wife beater wants to know where his wife is hiding from him – good time to lie.
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When being interrogated by an enemy during wartime about your knowledge of plans – good time to lie.
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When you are a police officer under deep cover (common in the movies but very rare in real life) asked if you are a cop or what your background is – good time to lie.
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Obviously many of us will never, ever be in the situations I described and of the few of us who would, we would be unlikely to face it more than a few times in our lives.
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It is just a question asked to determine the depth of somebody’s moral reasoning.
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Conclusion: O’Donnell’s moral reasoning is very shallow and superficial.

“So the radical left sets a course to destroy capitalism, our economy..”
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Well, I do not know about the radical left as in Castro, the FARC rebels in Colombia, the UCPN of Napal, but our split-the-baby centrist president who ran as a liberal but has always bent over backwards to the right wing is under pressure to start another stimulus package which will – as accepted by 80% of PhD Economists with 80 years of practice in the Unites States – bring many, many customers to the door of every business in America.
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I guess you are saying that either that you do not accept modern economics and are stuck in the 1920s or that customers ruin businesses.

“Those of us who respect this nation and its founding fathers refer to him as Thomas Jefferson or Mr. Jefferson.”
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Those of us who respect both Thomas Jefferson and reality know that President Jefferson was not a Christian but a deist who believed that Jesus Christ may or may not have been a real person, but was not a deity at all and owned a copy of the Muslim Koran.
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More or less, if you saw Thomas Jefferson today, the Tea Party would hate him and the right wing of evangelical Christianity would want him thrown up against a wall shot.

” Whenever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government; that whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights.”
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So, with “well informed” as a standard, Tommy J wouldn’t of let anybody who listens to radical right wing AM radio or watches Fox News vote.

MoronMom:

Well I find it interesting that you assocate right-wingers with visiting that site but I have never seen it. But its obvious that you do. Now does that mean you are a) closet David Duke fan,b) a racist or c) race-baiter looking under every bed to find anything resembling racism by someone associated with the right?

I vote for b & c. But its a nice distraction from how the left makes fun of a conservative seeking office for a misquote then try to deflect how the most brtilliant President can get a quote right even after spending million on a staff to support his every utterance, appearance and gesture.
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As for whatever David Duke said it is ridiculous but at least O;Donnell did not spend 20 yuears in his pews hearing simialr racist garbage as Obama has.

Rev Jim you are still an idiot and your pathetic attempts as other leftists in trying to make race an issue where non exists confirms how pathetic you are and how bankrupt your philosophy is.

We need to speak out against preachers who blame America, right Rusty?
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Rev Jim once again providing an answer to a question not asked trying to prove he is relevant to anything.

Rest assured you are the poster boy of failure

“As for whatever David Duke said it is ridiculous”
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Which part? The part where he agrees with you?
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btw, I hadn’t heard about Carpetgate™ until today. In fact, I had to Google it. The article at David Duke’s execrable site is the first result. Which should tell you something about this story. The only people who are with you on this issue and care about it are self-avowed racists and ex-Klansmen. Good company you’re keeping there, Freepy.

Yes we should, thankfully the one on my side of the aisle is now dead. How about yours?

It is Thursday, freeinpa, we should be IGNORING the leftist trolls, sartor and kevie. Don’t you think?

” as accepted by 80% of PhD Economists with 80 years of practice in the Unites States”

Lets see there are over 1000 graduate for Economic in the US so how do you arrive at 80% with 80 yrs experience exactly or is this another divined Rev Jim fact?

2 economists with 40 yrs each or 80 economists with 1 yr each. Either event the sample size for your overwhelming support of a stimulus is small based on your numbers

scooterfox? Does mom know your on her computer?

It seems that every issue a conservative brings up is a non-issue. Which is interesting since a large part of the liberal posters here spend a great deal of time ridiculing Palin, Beck, and now O’Donnell. None of which (as of today) have any legislative authority. Talk about your non-issues but you being a liberal its easier to dismiss someone then deal with your own delusional bent.

Why should we be thankful that he’s dead?

Sure ex KKK, but current buddies with Ahmadinejad.
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Like minds attract.

Well MoronMom it speaks more to the crap you read than anything else. You will never see a liberal mistake on MSM media unless it pushed by conservatives. But the MSM is really a tool of the right , isn’t it?
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Your delusions continue
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“Sure ex KKK, but current buddies with Ahmadinejad.
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Like minds attract.
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You mean like Chavez and Obambi? Difference Duke isn’t a hall monitor while Obambi is the First Tourist

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Smart?
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Not if you saw her claims about evolution
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I’ve seen your claims on economics, history, unions among other things and you claim you are smart. So she is either as smart as you or just as delusional — you pick!

No I mean like you and Duke.
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You know, the ones pushing the story this is about.
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It’s cool, own your feelings. Don’t be bullied.

freeinpa:
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Joe Klein (declared), Michael Crowley (inference from work at centrist rag The New Republic), Amy Sullivan (declared), they’re all not movement liberals, they’re all establishment, (which means Third Way) Dems.
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There are more movement liberals in the commentariat here than there are the rest of the Dems represented: low-information partisans, “Independent” leaners, popular centrists, Obama cheerleaders or Dem-side single-issue voters, in my opinion.
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Of course, movement liberals have their own categories, too…

“It is Thursday, freeinpa, we should be IGNORING the leftist trolls, sartor and kevie. Don’t you think?”

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True without the 3rd stooge (IQ5) they don’t break double digit IQ– it’s not a fair fight. But then they just usually name call then throw up their hands and declare victory

One of my favorite Jefferson quotes:
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“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes….Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
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The 2nd Amendment wasn’t a typo.

Ah, the liberal “truth” machine wants to set things straight: I never had sex with that woman. I never heard him (Rev Wright) say those things. Doctors will sometimes remove tonsils and feet from patients to make an extra buck, (paraphrasing BO on the healthcare stump). I can see Alaska from my house (liberals believe that Sarah Palin said this).

“I’ve seen your claims on economics, history, unions among other things and you claim you are smart..”
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I never claimed to have made any academic discoveries while working in the private, for profit sector outside of academia nor as an undergraduate. I use proven facts of others.
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You, like her, remove your information from your colon and claim that they are facts with no backing whatsoever.

“Rev Jim once again providing an answer to a question not asked trying to prove he is relevant to anything.”
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I was explaining the relevance of Izzard’s question to people who seemed to be baffled by it.

“Rest assured you are the poster boy of failure.”
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In other words, “Patrick, I am too uneducated to know who Kant was and too lazy to look up what you mean, so, I will call you stupid to make myself feel better.”

Ok derek one reply to you but you really don’t deserve one. You and Your little group of immature liberals (wait, isn’t that redundant?) aren’t really worth the effort. But I felt that some logical rational conservatives need to to occasionally post the truth on a Time web page.
I NEVER said that it was incumbent (did you hear that word somewhere Derek and just had to use it because you thought it makes you sound erudite?) upon me to prove that God did not exist. In fact, I have no need to prove anything to anyone about God, including myself. Did I mention that I am NOT a Christian nor a member of any organized religion. Yes I did do that. Funny how you seem to have missed reading that.
Now, back to the subject. Will Christine O’Donnell’s honesty or religion be a detriment to her candidacy? I submit t it will not.
You libbies remind me of piglets rooting around the pen in the mud looking for roots when the corn is obviously in trough.

“Well MoronMom it speaks more to the crap you read than anything else. You will never see a liberal mistake on MSM media unless it pushed by conservatives. But the MSM is really a tool of the right , isn’t it?”
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Freepy, you’re batting about .500 today. Sometimes you’re coherent and actually have a point to make. The rest of the time, you’re treating a carpet like its the Cuban Missile Crisis and hyping the same stories as David Duke.
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Still, you’re doing better than Rusty, who’s at about .025, if that’s any consolation.

“Why should we be thankful that he’s dead?

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Ahhh………..dead people don’t say and do stupid things?

“I can see Alaska from my house (liberals believe that Sarah Palin said this).”
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Wait, wut? She can’t see Alaska from Alaska?
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Palin’s actual quote was: “They’re our next-door neighbors and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.”

Funny how you little libbies always try to change the subject and put words into the mouths of those that you disagree with.
I never said anything about Mr. Jefferson’s religious beliefs nor is it relevant to this debate.
And for the very last time I am a natural born American citizen of American parents. One might think you libbies are intolerant xenophobes the way you attack anyone that you suspect might not be American. Yet you love illegal hispanic aliens. Go figure.

This non-Christian conservative has no problem with church and state. I do have a problem with those that twist things to suit their ideology. Nowhere do the words separation of church and state appear in our laws or Constitution. If Jefferson’s intentions and ideas are disclosed in a personal communication so be it. That doesn’t make them laws. Again, you all take the discussion off course.

Nope, it’s in the Bill of Rights, just like the rest of them.
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The consistent, liberal position is to support an expansive interpretation of the Bill of Rights, in my opinion.
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There’s an ongoing debate in the liberal community about that position, however.

ricardo4max I will try to use smaller words and shorter sentences from now on. I really could care less whether you think there is no proof for God’s non-existence or not. I just found it curious that someone bragging about being a scientist would proceed to butcher logic in the very next sentence. In fact, as a trained scientist, it is strange how much reliance you place on insult to try and make whatever point it is you think you are making. Surely, a scientist knows that the truth value of insult is equal to zero.

It’s a lot easier to ignore opinions we don’t like than wishing them dead. Just saying.

Oh, we still have Rev Robertson, Franklin Graham, and other rw theologians to carry on the work of intolerance. Christianists will always have a spokesperson, be it the revs or Palin.
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Take a breath. Now wait. Here it comes. Revs Sharpton and Jackson!!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100907/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_oval_office_rug
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I know this won’t the veracity of David Duke or the Free Republic, but read it anyway. Nuance, nuance.

“Lets see there are over 1000 graduate for Economic in the US…”
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“According to the United States Department of Labor, there were around 15,000 non-academic economists in the United States in 2006, with a median salary of roughly $77,010; with the top ten percent earning more than $136,550, annually.[9] About 135 colleges and universities[10] grant about 900 new Ph.D.s in economics each year.”
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economist#United_States
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Okay, I will grant you that 15,000 is over 1,000, but, you have an interesting way with numbers.
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Counter cyclical spending began in Hoover’s second term in 1930.
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1930 + 80 = 2010.
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Any more questions?

Retardomax also said that he had an independent business that the government was trying to close down.
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Now he is saying that he is scientist.
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Small business using chemistry which is illegal?
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I guessed that Retardomax was a meth dealer and he never did say what is was that he does for a living.

Swampland Right Wing Acceptable Candidate:
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Obama is a latent, Luo tribesman who hates colonialism.
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The earth is only 6000 years old and was created in 6 days.
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Obama is a socialist, communist, nazi who hates America.
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Obama is hates America and is foreign.
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AIDS is retribution for homosexual sin.
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The end times are coming and liberals will be sorry.
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The poor deserve to be poor. Feed the rich, starve the poor.
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Unions are evil for standing up to the captalistic cabal.
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Social Security and Medicare should be ended.
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The list is endless…

Oh, it helps if the candidate is cute and seductive. But be careful, you know what O’Donnell said about lust.

“Yet you love illegal hispanic aliens.”
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Nobody said that.
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Is crossing a border or overstaying a visa as bad as murdering a person?
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To any normal human being, it is not.
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Is it as bad as stealing from somebody?
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To most normal people it is not.
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The law has it as a class C misdemeanor – the same as loitering.
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So,using an agency which does handle murder, robbery, rape, drug dealing, assault, tax evasion or other crimes known as Immigration and Naturalization, people who are working illegally are arrested and deported at a greater rate than under Bush.
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So, it is obvious that, if any party loves it when people cross the border illegally, it is the Republican Party outside of Arizona.
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In Arizona there is no law where you can sue the police if they fail to investigate a murder, a rape, a burglary, assault, arson or any other felony of misdemeanor. However, the immigration law before is was amended by the courts would let people sue the police department if a particular class C misdemeanor was occurring when an undocumented worker is working at a lawful job.
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So, as the law was written, to cover their butts, Arizona police would have been encouraged to drop murder, rape, arson, burglary and armed robbery cases to attempt to pursue a person who should not be working at a lawful job due to immigration status from working.
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If you would rather be butt raped and murdered than have the dishes at your favorite restaurant washed by an illegal immigrant, then you are a very twisted man.
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If not, you would agree that diverting police from serious crimes for immigration is perverted at best.

” Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[1]”
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“Nowhere do the words separation of church and state appear in our laws or Constitution.”
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Fine, but “congress” being the law making branch of the state and “religion” which means “church” are.
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Drunken driving laws do not specifically say Jack Daniels but that does not mean if that is what you’ve been drinking you are exempt from the law.

I am very sorry, Freakinpa.
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It seems as if I am the only person in the world who asks this question so finding it on Google was a real pain, but I was mistaken.
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I said that 80% of PhD Economists agreed on how one can stimulate the economy through increased spending.
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The real answer is, I am sorry to tell you 90%.
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http://books.google.com/books?id=HveHgrID5GYC&pg=PA655&lpg=PA655&dq=90%25+of+economists+agree+that+expansionary+fiscal&source=bl&ots=hshT3vYxV2&sig=DNcR7wA-E6Qq8gxjY1p9s8QWNjo&hl=en&ei=0a2STKPCIoH-8AbIvfi3BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&sqi=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=90%25%20of%20economists%20agree%20that%20expansionary%20fiscal&f=false
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I had to go into Google books to get that answer.

” Does mom know your on her computer?

It seems that every issue a conservative brings up is a non-issue. Which is interesting since a large part of the liberal posters here spend a great deal of time ridiculing Palin, Beck, and now O’Donnell..”
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Because Limbaugh, Hannity, Palin and Beck seem to be your sources for non stories and false information about Democrats and Liberals.
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Do the psychiatrists at the mental ward know you are back on the internet again?

SZ;

Thanks for your response. Based on your definitions, I would agree with your assessments.

Using Rev Jim facts again I see. Similar to your idiotic point on the “silence” of the media on death panels and IRS agents despite literally hundreds of reports. Either you can’t read (possible) or your just plain ignorant. Both probably apply.

“Because Limbaugh, Hannity, Palin and Beck seem to be your sources for non stories and false information about Democrats and Liberals.”

I didn’t know you were a big listener of them or are you just using what you get from left wing nut job websites who think they heard them say something and then gave their interpretation of it. Because of course liberals never lie or distort anything for their own purpose.

Freakinpa,
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I get all of the information on Glenn Beck and so on from what you post here.
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You guys post what you consider their best and seeing how bad their best is, it is, obviously atrocious.
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I, also, have been the same room as people listening to that garbage up in Boston. I knew one Limbaugh fanatic one person who loved Michael Savage in addition to somebody else who liked Bill O’Reilly.
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I’ve heard them enough times to know that they are full of crap. Why go back and listen again?

OK as a paleontologist and evolutionary biologist I have to answer this one. First “testing” of microevolution in a laboratory setting has gone on for well over a half century, since at least the modern synthesis (started in the 1940′s) joined together the “classic” biological fields (such as morphology, palaeontology and development) with population genetics and mathematical modeling, and has consistently shown one result. That is evolution, with the mechanism for it primarily being natural section being support over and over again. The term “theory” in this case represents an overarching explanatory structure (i.e. the theory of gravity or atomic theory) not a wild guess as is the colloquial meaning of the word.

Second we do not use carbon dating for anything older than about 60-70,000 years. If we want to date things that are in the hundreds of millions of years, we use stuff like argon/ argon, Uranium/ lead, potassium/ argon or other similar methods. Also isotope dating can only really be done on volcanic ash layers, for the majority of sedimentary (fossil bearing) deposits we use biostratigraphic markers (basically quickly evolving organism whose range in the rock record, and thus in time, is short) to constrain our age estimates.

I have personally seen enough “missing link” fossils (heck I work on them), talked to enough modern ecologists and lab based evolutionary biologist and read enough papers on the subject to assure you that the evidence for evolution is probably more compelling than almost any other theory out there. Do we know the exact sequence and ecological pressure which caused every major transition (like say the origin of mammals), not by a long shot. But we have literally thousands upon thousands of concrete examples of the fact of evolution, and anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant or lying. I don’t know which is worse in someone running for public office, someone who is proud to lack the facts, or who will lie about them to get votes.

By the way this has nothing to do with liberal/ conservative. I have colleagues who are conservative in ideology, even that are quite religious, they all understand the fact of evolution’s occurrence. And any extreme left wingers who doubt science get just as much scorn from me as those on the right. Now off to bed for me and I am sorry if this is less than grammatically perfect, I am quite tired.

Well what do you know…our commander in chief has something in common with Christien O’donnell…

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/03/AR2010090305100.html

President Obama’s new presidential rug seemed beyond reproach, with quotations from Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy and the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. woven along its curved edge.

“The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.” According media reports, this quote keeping Obama company on his wheat-colored carpet is from King.

Except it’s not a King quote. The words belong to a long-gone Bostonian champion of social progress. His roots in the republic ran so deep that his grandfather commanded the Minutemen at the Battle of Lexington.

And he has great pecs:

Paparazzi Photog Gets a ‘Pec-tacular’ Obama Shot
By Philip Rucker
HONOLULU — More than a dozen photographs of a bathing suit-clad President-elect Barack Obama surfaced online Monday showing the shirtless Chicagoan accompanied by his wife, Michelle, and their two young daughters on the white-sand beach in front of their vacation home.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/12/paparazzi-photog-gets-a-pec-ta.html

Yeah, cute and seductive. Is that your excuse for voting for this clown?

So, Obama is stupid. I mean that’s what you think if someone gets a qoute wrong, correct. That is the whole point of this ariticle and discussion. OK, I agree. Obama is stupid, and those that support him only do so because they think that he is smarter than they are. Too bad.

Meltdown.
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You are forgetting one important thing: Obama supporters do not dress up like Martin Luther King Jr and Civil Rights era characters quoting him daily in an anachronistic contexts (like saying King would support Net Neutrality, would boycott Fox News or other impossible guesses about what a person would have done if they lived in a different era) while the Tea Party movement has acted as if Thomas Jefferson and George Washington had an opinion of health care reform, regulation of greenhouse gasses and the like.
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Yes, you’re buddies found a gaff.
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Some gaffs are funnier than other ones. Dan Quayle’s gaffs were hilarious sometimes. GWB had many funny ones as does Joe BIden.
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Misattributing a quote is not amusing particularly amusing.
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However, it is a bad sign for the Tea Party and O’Donnell when they tell us all again and again that they know what men who never drove anything but horses would think of car emissions, never saw a weapon more powerful than a cannon would think of reducing the number intercontinental ballistic missiles and never saw businesses in the United States with significantly more than 100 employees would think of today’s largest multinational businesses when they are using quotes from the wrong person.
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I am not amused at O’Donnell nor Obama’s misattributing quotes. I do see it as another dent to O’Donnell’s credibility which I do not to Obama, who has never said that he was doing what he Martin Luther King Jr or any other historical figure would have done, but, instead, doing what he believes the American people of 2008, 2009 and 2010 right now want.
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See the difference?

Yeah I could see the difference if I was blind. Blind to the fact that the Civil Rights Movement has been hijacked by the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, not to mention Obama’s spiritual mentor (his words) Reverend Wright. You think MLK would ever have endorsed a pastor that preached victimhood?

Ignoring your disrespect of some of the most brilliant men in history. You think that some modern politician that drives a Mercedes and has his pockets lined from all directions by lobbyists is automatically more qualified to write the Constitution. Maybe he could “tweat” it. The very same issues that we have today of freedom, liberty, commerce, tyranny, and individual rights were addressed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The Constitution, the Bill of Rights and subsequent writings known as the Federalist Papers were a new form of government where individual rights were protected from oppressive governments.

Our government, is now oppressive. The tax rate is oppressive, the way that it is enforced is extremely oppressive, regulations and government agencies abound restricting commerce, freedom, even the right to own property and use it, putting the rights of the government above the individual. We have a president that values collective salvation. What exactly is that?

Wow for griping about name calling you sure do it alot.

newfreedomblog wasent it you who was crying about people calling names “Libruls are just plain STOOPID”

Wow L.M.d you must be one of those 3%ers who make all the money because tax takes no more out of my check than they did before. Unrestricted commerce is one of the reasons this country is in the shape it’s in now. BIG BUISNESS DOES NOT CARE ABOUT AMERICA OR AMERICANS if it did it would not take its jobs to other countries so they can pay some child 5 bucks a week to work. If they cared about our country they would keep those jobs here to keep our economy and our country strong like it was in the 40 and 50 when made in America meant something.

Yeah, commerce is terrible. It’s not commerce that is the problem. The world has had commerce since mankind started trading.

The problem is that government tries to decide who should be the winners and losers, and everytime it does there are unforseen consequences. For example NAFTA and allowing China into the WTO. These were supposedly free trade agreements. But China, does not allow free trade. It manipulates its currency; therefore making its exports even cheaper. It uses slave labor, it has NO restrictions on pollution. That’s a whole other issue about evironmentalists driving industries out of the US to China where they no pollute freely. As you can see this is NOT free trade, yet our government supports it. And both parties have brought this about.

In California restrictions, taxes, regulations, law suits by the State Government have driven business out of the state and continue to drive out jobs. Jerry Brown has sued to stop construction jobs. And he wants to be Govenor again. The liberals in the CA legislature, the State employees unions, the former Govenor Gray Davis and some RINOs like Benedict Arnold Swarzennegger have bankrupted the state. They’ve sold out. Willie Brown admits it:

http://cbs13.com/local/willie.brown.interview.2.1704657.html

Eventually, the man who was once one of the most powerful people in the state speaks – and makes some powerful statements about the unforeseen consequences of his political decisions.

“In the world of politics we don’t think in these terms,” Brown says of the political decisions in the Statehouse. “We think very short-range: how can they be helpful in getting us re-elected. Period.”

It’s a very bold admission from a man with a deep history here in California. It’s been 15 years since Willie Brown left the Statehouse. In that time, the state saw unprecedented growth both in California’s businesses and in its housing market. He also oversaw the expansion of the state government and the protection of its employees.