Why The Tea Party Can Help The Republican Brand

According to the emails I get every day from the Democratic National Committee, the Tea Party movement is a Democratic gold mine. It has helped to nominate unpopular Republicans, like Sharon Angle in Nevada, and it has split conservative vote in districts like New York-23, allowing Democrats to win even when they should not. It is also an unruly bunch, which can be defined as much by its own fringes and funny signs, with sometimes revolutionary and incendiary overtones, as by its core identity as a group of people fed up with government spending and rising deficits. “It could be the difference between getting the majority or not,” the Cook Political Report’s Jennifer Duffy tells the New York Times, reflecting this conventional wisdom, based on an analysis of individual races.

But that may only be part of the story. To see the other side, I would turn your attention to the Wall Street Journal today which finds a couple facts about the Republican Party worth highlighting. The WSJ/NBC poll finds that voters are just as likely to see the Tea Party as an independent movement as part of the Republican Party, but then this is one of those polling questions where the factual answer is probably “Neither and Both.” The next question is more interesting. When asked if Republicans will return to the policies of George W. Bush or “have different ideas” on economic matters if they retake control of Congress, the nation shows little doubt that the party is changing. Fifty-eight percent say Republicans will have different ideas, while 35 percent say Republicans will return to Bush policies. This is a clear sign of the rebirth of the Republican brand, despite the fact that much of the Congressional leadership in the Republican Party remains the same as during the reign of George W. Bush.

So why the great shift in perception? At least part of the credit goes to the DNC emails which have done what they could to rebrand the Republican Party as an entirely new entity in the image of the Tea Party. I first heard this idea last week, in a conversation with Bill Galston, a former Clinton Administration policy adviser who now works at Brookings. His argument was that all the noise around the Tea Party may be having the effect of making credible the argument that the Republican Party was becoming something different, hurting the Obama Administration’s effort to paint Republican policies as a return to George W. Bush. “The administration’s ability to make that argument has been weakened by the very vociferous changes that have happened in the Republican Party,” said Galston.

In this view, the Tea Parties have more in common with Barry Goldwater than H. Ross Perot. They are an intra-party reformist cause, at a time when the nation desperately wants reform. In a midterm cycle, where the choice is between change or the same, it may not matter so much that many of the reforms the Tea Party seeks–like major revisions to entitlements–are not very popular. In other words, the silly campaign rally signs and DNC oppo may matter less than the fact that Tea Partiers are shaking up the Republican Party, which is good for the Republican brand.

Related Topics: 2010, bill galston, Tea Party, 2012 Election
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  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Another edition of “people really don’t understand details very well and only focus on vague impressions” brought to us by someone who’s primary job responsibility is to inform the public.

  • freeinpa

    Are these the same people who should have done more during the campaign of 20008 than take the guided tour of Obama?

    Every time Obama opens hos mouth now more truths are revealed and the people don’t like it. So its back to blame the Republicans or everybody lies but us. Not working so well this time around.

  • destor23

    Let me get this straight:

    1) The Republican Party is being reformed, taken over and rebranded by the Tea Party.

    2) Tea Party policies are unpopular with the general population.

    3) The Tea Party itself has an image problem with people outside of the movement who think they’re all loons.

    4) This is excellent news for Republicans.

    Okay, Michael.

  • Art Pepper

    Well, bartering for medical care with chickens is certainly “different.”

  • nflfoghorn

    “…Fifty-eight percent [of those polled by WSJ/NBCN] say Republicans will have different ideas, while 35 percent say Republicans will return to Bush policies. This is a clear sign of the rebirth of the Republican brand…”
    .
    Here ya go, everybody! New, IMPROVED BS!

  • nflfoghorn

    RustFreep: Kowtowing to the masses since Twenty Thousand Eight.

  • sacredh

    People are angry and it looks like they’re going to express that anger in November. The Tea Party looks like something new and many voters may decide to give them a chance. If they go ahead and take on entitlements like they say they will, a short term victory could very well end in 2012. I’m not sure the comparison to Barry Goldwater is something the Tea Party would like. He got his ass kicked in the elections.

  • freeinpa

    So you agree!

  • freeinpa

    But apparently better received than the tired old BS of the Democrats since their lies are no longer believable except to the extreme looney left.

  • kevin

    No, no. It really does make sense if you don’t think about it.

  • m0mentom0ri

    A. Many people, including registered Democrats, are not happy with the performance of Obama and the Democratic-majority congress.
    .
    B. The Tea party is not happy with the performance of Obama and the Democratic-majority congress.
    .
    Just because A and B have come to the same conclusion, does not mean that A and B agree.

  • certifiablylazy

    1/ Repub’s rebranded as Tea Party
    2/ Take share of chambers or take over chambers in 2010
    3/ Repubs prevent Pres from getting anything done for 2 yrs; blame Dems
    4/ People still p!ssed, so they vote Repub in 2012
    5/ Repubs continue dismantling regulations, continue to kow-tow to special interests, continue cutting taxes and running up the deficit; now run the whole show
    6/ 6 yrs from now, people realize that they just got eff’ed…again.
    7/ Dems voted back in power in 2016
    8/ Repeat/recycle/death spiral

  • groenhagen2

    Have you liberal morons prepared for the shellacking you’re going to experience on Nov. 2? Make sure to get your prescriptions for anti-depressants and make your therapy appointments early.
    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41393

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Yep, that’s about it, Paul. “Here’s a bunch of speculation about poll results in lieu of useful information! More breathless speculation, followed by images of a water-skiing squirrel, after these messages.” (Yeah, so I’m conflating national news with local news. Sue me.)

  • m0mentom0ri

    Montana Tea Party Leader Axed Over Comments Concerning Hanging Of Homosexuals
    .
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/07/montana-tea-party-leader-_n_707171.html
    .
    Stay classy and keep helpin’ that brand, Tea Party!

  • nflfoghorn

    Nobody on the right has any ideas that are a) new or b) haven’t been tried and proven to be ineffective/injurious to the economy.

  • nflfoghorn

    We’ll see. Even if it happens, expect to see something you probably haven’t antipated: gridlock and BO’s re-election due to all the frustration over it.

  • freeinpa

    The same meme that the left has pitched for years. They did it during the HC debate and doing it now. But I guess it sounds better to say that than to say I hate their ideas and have to defend why.

    Besides finding 10,000 ways to spend other people’s money, what “new” idea has the left come up with?

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    What will the slogan for this new brand be?

  • nflfoghorn

    Don’t forget that it actually happened in 1994…and it got Dole elected president. Wait, what?

  • freeinpa

    So you will be castigating Democrats for being the party of NO or will that be sanctioned as ok because they are doing the looney left’s work?

    Even if it happens, expect to see something you probably haven’t antipated: gridlock

    \

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Jeb ’12!

  • nflfoghorn

    It doesn’t have to be “new” but it does have to be effective. Tax cuts and deregulation does not rapidly improve job growth – in fact, I say it’s been highly injurious to it. BO’s stimulus hasn’t created rapid job growth but at least we’re not on the verge of collapse like Greece either. I wish Dems would tell the truth and say that improvement will take a lot longer than the average election cycle instead of running away from what people needed in the first place.

  • nflfoghorn

    BO will be the one-man PON.

  • sacredh

    Thanks Suckers

  • nflfoghorn

    I think his bro screwed it up for him. Thank God.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    Just say no.
    .
    We don’t need no stinking ideas.
    .
    Fiscal policy is for pussies.
    .

  • newfreedomblog

    “To hold the line against Republicans, the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, issued an urgent plea for members in safe districts to help their endangered colleagues by contributing money. She called out to Democrats who were delinquent on paying their party dues and instructed members with no re-election worries to tap into a combined $218 million from their campaign accounts to help save their majority.”

    .
    http://www.insidebayarea.com/california/ci_15995785
    .
    All one has to do is follow the money. As Nancy calls upon all of her fellow DemoRATS to help out those who are seeing unprecedented polling against them, they are surrounding their “wagons”.
    .
    AFL-CIO is increasing their usual payouts from all the stimulus wasted dollars by bumping up their share of the “firewall” adding another 40 million in campaign donations too. Now at 80 million, one only needs to wonder aloud as to where has all the Stimulus dollars gone, and BAM!! there it is in the slush fund money the Democrats have given to their special interest groups, IE: BIG UNION.
    .
    Well sorry Nancy, the game is over. Start to sing fat lady because the people now see what is going on. You haven’t done anything at all to “save or create” any jobs. All you have done is tranfer wealth as you and Barack had promised you would do. You just didn’t count on the American tax payers to be so vigilant in finding out about your political games.
    .
    We remember Nancy. And come November 2nd. You get the first vacant coat closet where you truly belong!!

  • nflfoghorn

    IOW, Where’s the Beef, Repubs?

  • m0mentom0ri

    How about “Blacks own Slaves in Mauritania, Sudan Niger and Haiti”?
    .
    http://www.teapartytracker.org/blog_entry/t-shirt-from-8-28-rally

  • gum0nshoe

    Why The Tea Party Can Help The Republican Brand:

    ~ People don’t understand what the Tea Party stands for.
    ~ Americans are scared of “Socialism” when most of them don’t know what “Socialism” actually is, or how government itself is an act of socialism.
    ~ Many Americans don’t believe in freedom of religion, but do believe in freedom speech.
    ~ Many Americans don’t understand that the root cause of of the economic crash wasn’t politicians in Washington, but a system of bad lending, bad trades,
    ~ Too many Americans think you can reduce the deficit by cutting taxes and that doing so will result in an economic boon.
    ~ Too many Americans are distrustful of “Government” when they should be distrustful of politicians and idiots who claim to know what they are doing.
    ~ The media likes to put on an entertainment show because ultimately they need to profit too

    Anyone else? I miss anything?

  • nflfoghorn

    “Miss Prissy Knows Everything!”

  • nflfoghorn

    anticipated (holy smokes)

  • centfan

    They won’t touch entitlements. They’ll forget they even mentioned them. The Tea Partyettes will drop some corporate taxes, shave corporate regulations anywhere they can, and blame the Democrats for deficits until the sun goes super-nova.
    -
    And for some reason the Democrats won’t call them on every promise they made to take granny’s pills away and every conglomerate they help take the money and health out of the middleclass for short term profits.

  • sacredh

    Tax Cuts For Jesus

  • centfan

    If’n I got my God, my pills, and my programs, well who need the dang guvment nohow? My Social S’curity check come in the mail same as always… ain’t no guvment need to tell me what to do…

  • nflfoghorn

    LOL Sacredh! His 401k must really be something!

  • sacredh

    Freedom, Unregulated Corporations, Knowledge, Unity.

  • freeinpa

    “I wish Dems would tell the truth”

    “Tax cuts and deregulation does not rapidly improve job growth – in fact, I say it’s been highly injurious to it.”
    .

    So which is it- truth telling or what the Dems are now proposing is injurious to our economy. So you are saying that Obama is deliberately trying to destroy the economy?

  • freeinpa

    Which will make the WH see in new tenant in 2012. As the economy stays in trouble he will be vetoing any help to Americans.

    Can’t wait for that campaign slogan: I want to save jobs:MINE

  • nflfoghorn

    10.9: Who drew up that slogan, Schwarzenegger?

  • sacredh

    nfl, look closely at the words.

  • grape_crush

    There’s no doubt that the GOP is changing – they have been moving further and further toward the fringe Right since the Reagan years – but the real question needing to be asked is, “What are they changing into?”

    This is a clear sign of the rebirth of the Republican brand…

    It’s a clear sign of the ability of focused marketing/messaging campaigns to overcome the reality of a flawed and inferior product.

    Related:

    The Other Klein and Mother Jones’ Kevin Drum share some thoughts about a WaPo poll

    Drum: “Summary: Americans trust Democrats more to handle the country’s problems, they think Democrats represent their values better, they think Democrats are more concerned with the needs of people like them, and they think Democrats deserve to be reelected at a higher rate than Republicans. They also think (though I didn’t show it below) that George Bush is substantially more to blame for our economic woes than Barack Obama.

    And the result of all this? They say they plan to vote for Republicans by landslide numbers.”

    TOK: “This is, of course, the lament of many majority parties facing midterm elections: If it was a choice, they’d win. If it’s a referendum, they lose. But for all the dollars and messaging expended trying to make choices out of referendums, it never works. It’s always a referendum. You’d need to radically shake up the election dynamics to get into something closer to a choice election.”

  • grape_crush

    “Grab your ankles and keep smiling, America!”

  • square1

    Funny. When the GOP attacked the term liberal and many Democrats refused to self-identify as liberals, the perception in the media was that this reflected poorly on Democrats and liberalism.

    But when the Republicans so thoroughly trash the GOP brand that rank-and-file party members refuse to identify as Republicans and insist upon creating an imaginary political party to join…that is “Good News” for the Republican Brand.

  • formerlyjames

    We can see Russia from our porch in Arizona.

  • formerlyjames

    A penny spent is a penny saved.

  • formerlyjames

    2 + 2 = ?

  • Paul-no not that one

    sacred I believe NFL is pointing out Arnold used that.
    .
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/27/schwarzenegger-sends-lawm_n_336319.html

  • sacredh

    Another Prick In The Mall
    .
    Thanks Pink Floyd.

  • sacredh

    Thanks Pnnto and apologies to nfl. I need to expand my reading sites.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “2) Tea Party policies are unpopular with the general population.

    3) The Tea Party itself has an image problem with people outside of the movement who think they’re all loons.

    4) This is excellent news for Republicans.”
    .
    The alternative for the Republicans to side with a return to George W Bush. So, with the bar set that low, even being though of as a bunch of loons is an improvement.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Freeinpa,
    .
    For the second time today and who knows how many times in total, adding $1 to or failing to take $1 from in taxes causes the most growth among those with the lowest incomes.
    .
    As I said, for the wealthiest, cutting $1 of taxes adds $1.04 to the economy while hiring a person making $0 per hour creates $2.50 for every $1 since, basically, all of that $1 will be promptly spent.
    .
    Democrats have been discussing maintaining the tax cuts to the middle class where it is somewhere between $1.04 and $2.50 for every dollar not taxed.
    .
    Democrats are not proposing deregulation which has caused the most harm.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “…I want to save jobs:MINE”
    .
    He can’t! That was George HW Bush’s 1992 campaign slogan!
    .
    Besides, if right wing policies create jobs, why did so many jobs start disappearing after the first couple of years after GWB took office?
    .
    How about Ken Star gets to investigate where those jobs went. Remember, Star was the one who uncovered the fact that the Clintons legally and honestly lost their shirts in a poorly planned real estate deal, so, who knows what Kenny boy will find next?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    7.1
    LOL

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    I think they will have Jan Brewer’s slogan from her eloquent TV performance:
    .
    “__________ ”
    .
    “ah, vote for me”

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “So you will be castigating Democrats for being the party of NO or will that be sanctioned as ok because they are doing the looney left’s work?”
    .
    From 1994 though 2007 when you guys got to have your way with this country, Democrats, even when in the minority and totally locked out from 2001 through 2007 were always coming up with new ideas.
    .
    Unless there are some major changes in leadership, Democrats will not be called “the Party of no”.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    I know what will be the theme song for 2012 if the Republicans come back in November:
    .
    http://www.in.com/videos/watchvideo-rolling-stones-the-last-time-1965-8846197.html

  • folkster40

    Guns ‘n Jesus GOOD! Taxes ‘n dark people BAD!

  • newfreedomblog

    It is called real change versus fauz pas change, square1. I am truly surprised you haven’t figured out the difference yet.

  • 53_3

    So are mass extinctions…

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    I think the Republicans who started the Tea Party are former encyclopedia salesmen:
    .

    .
    “Tea Party.”
    .
    “Are you sure you aren’t a Republican?”
    .
    “No, I am one of those crazy Tea Party loons, vote for me.”

  • gloriousglo2

    Somewhere between 5/ and 6/ you forgot the war with Iran that they’ll start

  • gloriousglo2

    …5.8/…..”I think Speaker Boenner has that blue dress right here……IMPEACH the Negro for god’s sake”

  • http://www.facebook.com/majors.bruce?ref=profile brucemajors

    Democrats are so completely ignorant and stupid.

    No wonder they are now facing death panels in November.

  • apr2563

    Kevin, if I stop thinking I will either become a tea partier or a Time’s reporter.

  • maverick2k9

    With political reporters like these, who needs Al Qaeda !!
    -
    Slowly, but surely, America is becoming a Nation of know-nothings, ably led by a party of NO (aka the tea party of Limbaugh/Palin/Beck) which is aided and abetted by a cabal of self-promoting and cross-promoting Do-Nothing Political pundits.

  • shepherdwong

    This is a clear sign of the rebirth of the Republican brand…
    .
    …selling the exact same deadly sh!t. Altria anyone?

  • sasquatch08

    ~ People don’t understand what the Tea Party Stands for. Who cares? They aren’t a party. I haven’t seen “TP” next to anyone’s name on a ballot and I never will. Both sides are fear mongering, the Tea Party with a certain fringe of racist morons and the Left with attempting to create the image that the Tea Party is all racist lunatics who will create a Christian religious government to mirror Iran, kill all the minorities and eat their children.
    .
    ~American’s are scared of Socialism when most of them don’t know what “Socialism” is… I think that many actually do. They may not understand all the ins and outs and the difference between pure Socialism and Social Democracy, but they do understand the history implications of it, namely, high taxes, chronically high unemployment, deficits that are unmanageable, slow growth and an inability to do ANYTHING about it because people get addicted to entitlements and become such pansies they can’t even imagine going out and doing something for themselves. They further understand the true danger of “Progressivism” which is a hell of a lot scarier than socialism.
    .
    ~Many Americans don’t believe in freedom of religion… there is close to zero evidence to support that statement.
    .
    ~ Root of economic crash… What reality do you live in? Bankers were willing to make loans they never would have in the past (so called “liar loans”) because they knew damn right well they could repackage them and sell the massive risk off to Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac which were government backed because Barney Frank thought that owning your own house was a “right”. Government intervention is the root cause of this. Do I think that Frank wanted to wreck the economy? No. But the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
    .
    ~Deficit cutting through tax reduction. Actually what’s needed is some MASSIVE spending cuts. Reform of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security for starters. They are responsible for tens of billions of dollars a year, possibly hundreds of billions in fraud and waste, eat up nearly half of the U.S. budget and every year they grow like weeds. As to if tax reduction would decrease the deficit: certainly not in the immediate future, over 20 years or so it is possible they would cause enough growth in the economy to increase tax revenues. This isn’t an argument that I’ve heard, so I think you’re probably setting up a straw man here. The argument that I’ve heard is that with official unemployment at 9.6% and real unemployment at closer to 17%, jobs are number one and taking money away from company’s cuts into their cash flow and reduces the amount of money they have to hire those unemployed people. The income tax revenue on a person making $0 per year is $0 per year.
    .
    ~Distrust of Government: Why should they trust it? As you point out, it’s run by politicians… they are the government and you openly admit they’re a bunch of power hungry liars and charlatans… Maybe we should just trust a FEW of them? Like… Ried and Pelosi? Get real. The government is made up of politicians who lie for a living regardless of political affiliation.

  • herby002

    Art,

    That was the Repub “regular” candidate, who had been leading in the polls until she offered that prescription for high health cars costs, then stuck to that position.
    That opened up the race for the wackier candidate, Sharron Angle, who was helped by multi-million dollar contributions from far-right donor groups… who wanted to help her dismantle Social Security, Medicare, the EPA; withdraw from the UN, etc.

    I have to go now. More Swampland blogs await.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “… the Left with attempting to create the image that the Tea Party is all racist lunatics who will create a Christian religious government to mirror Iran, kill all the minorities and eat their children.”
    .
    I know the linguistic gymnastics the Tea Party supporters used to say that people at Tea Party rallies and attending Tea Party meetings who pull out racist signs and so on was not a sign that there was even one person in the Tea Party who had any issues with race, but, I do not believe that it was strongly implied that the Tea Party backed candidates would impose racism or forced Christianity.
    .
    I have one worry for myself in life and the Tea Party backed candidates are dangerous in these terms: the economy. They oppose everything which has been successful in ending recessions.
    .
    “~ Root of economic crash… What reality do you live in? Bankers were willing to make loans they never would have in the past (so called “liar loans”) because they knew damn right well they could repackage them and sell the massive risk off to Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac which were government backed because Barney Frank thought that owning your own house was a “right”.”
    .
    Factual error: in addition to Fanny Mae and Freddy Mack, the loans later called “toxic assets” were 100% private non-government following exactly the same rules of allowing liars loans, etc, etc and were a far larger percent of the total toxic assets than Fanny and Freddy. But for the reasonably large fraction of them which were Fanny and Freddy, it was, indeed Barney Frank who supported keeping the rules lax for Fanny and Freddy as they were in non-government backed mortgage backed securities.
    .
    “Actually what’s needed is some MASSIVE spending cuts.”
    .
    You mean now when businesses and households are not spending?
    .
    From 1994 until 2001, spending cuts would have been outstanding as they would have from 2002 through 2007 when consumers and households were doing plenty of spending.
    .
    Wrong time. Not spending now for the government now means nobody spends. See what I found about civil engineers on the post about Obama’s plan to spend $50 B on projects which should cost about $2.2 Trillion.
    .
    “The government is made up of politicians who lie for a living regardless of political affiliation.”
    .
    I, personally, believe that when most politicians are lying – and not all or even most do as far as I can tell – the first ones they lie to and totally convince are themselves. Self deception is what I see in the conservatives of the past twenty years. (Sure, occasionally Democrats, but, for most of the Tea Party slash and burn down government things, I would see much more denial for the far right.)
    .
    I’m not likely to believe that even most of those who are lying believe that they are doing what is going to be remembered well in the history books, but that is just me.
    .
    What else would people with $20M CEO-like resumes want other than a great place in the history books – a thrill of making 0.5% of that much and having to beg for their job every two to six years?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    BTW: Sasquach, good to see you back online. I haven’t seen much of you lately.

  • 3xfire3

    Myths About the Tea Party Movement
    .
    Data based on Winston Group, and USA/Today-Gallup, and Rasmussen Polls.
    .
    Myth 1: Tea Party members are poorly educated.
    .
    No College……….34%
    Some College…….34%
    College Grad……..16%
    Postgraduate………15%
    .
    Almost identical to all U.S. adults average education.
    .
    Myth 2: Tea Party members are virtually all republicans.
    .
    Republicans………..57%
    Independents……….28%
    Democrats…………..13%
    .
    Myth 3: TPM are all Pro-Life
    .
    Pro-Life……………65%
    Pro-Choice…………26%
    .
    Myth 4: TPM are mostly men.
    .
    Men……………55%
    Women…………45%
    .
    Myth 5: TPM are all white people.
    .
    Non Hispanic White.……79%
    Non Hispanic Black….….6%
    Others Non White………15%
    .
    Myth 6: TPM are all old people.
    .
    18-29…………16%
    30-49…………34%
    50-64…………29%
    65- Older………21%
    .
    Myth 7: The Tea Party Nationally is not a very large group.
    .
    17% of the U.S. adult population identify themselves as part of the Tea Party Movement.
    The equates to approximately 45,000,000 people.
    .
    Myth 8: The Tea Party Members are a violent group.
    .
    To date, among people who claim to be members of the TPM, there have been very few proven acts of violence. Compared to the U.S. adult population as a whole, the TPM has been a very peaceful group.
    [Source: Google search “Proven acts of violence by Tea Party members]
    .
    Myth 9: Most Americans do not believe the TPM is good for America.
    .
    46% ……..Say TPM is good for America
    31%………..Say TPM is not good for America
    13%………..No Opinion
    .
    An Interesting Note.
    .
    The “American Tea Party Anthem” was written by David Saucedo, the son of Mexican Immigrants.

  • sasquatch08

    Hey Patrick, yes I have returned. It’s been a busy few months.
    .
    “I do not believe that it was strongly implied that the Tea Party backed candidates would impose racism or forced Christianity.”
    .
    Just ask Keith Olberman. He talked repeatedly about how the Tea Party was a bunch of racists who “cling to God and guns”, obviously implying that they are violent, racist, religious whackjobs. I’m not saying that all liberals say this or even believe it, but some prominent ones with large mouthpieces certainly do. They’re the liberal version of Beck and they’re just as loud and obnoxious.
    .
    “They oppose everything which has been successful in ending recessions.”
    .
    I would have to disagree with that. This is a decent amount of evidence that Reagan broke the back a recession with just those policies, while FDR’s policies may well have extended and deepened the Great Depression. Personally, I’m not a PhD economist, but I do trend towards the Austrian model of economic theory. I wouldn’t have a problem with some government spending on this and that, and some of it is useful: we certainly need to reinvest in our aging infrastructure and that will cost money and construction workers would be employed by it. My problem however is that I watched for 6 years as the Fed’s threw money at the Ohio DOT, a state where there are only 3 bridges in the whole state that are up to date. Almost none of the federal money was used for anything other than repaving massive sections of I-70 when it was the bridges that were dangerously old. Same with stimulus money, Ohio used none of that money to “re-invest” they used it to plug holes in the State budget that the State created, and then used federal dollars to keep a bunch of do-nothing bureaucrats employed (like putting the money towards the salaries of DMV employees or the Ohio Lottery Commission).
    .
    “the loans later called “toxic assets” were 100% private non-government following exactly the same rules of allowing liars loans”
    .
    Which the private sector correctly surmised they could pass on to the government, which is what happened via the TARP program. These companies were mainly “too big to fail” and they knew this and exploited it. Nothing is too big to fail, including this country, just ask the Romans if you can find one.
    .
    “You mean now when businesses and households are not spending?”
    .
    Yes, I mean like 5-10 years ago actually, and now more than ever. Why? If we don’t we’ll end up like Greece. I am all for cutting fraud and waste out of EVERY section of government spending, including the military R&D budget which is so bloated mainly because the Pentagon/DOD change what they want from a weapons system every 5 minutes. Just look at the problems surrounding the development of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, there was even a movie made about it called “The Pentagon Wars”. That sort of wasteful crap exists in every branch and office run by any government because they are inherently inefficient.
    .
    Further government cannot spend it’s own money, it’s ours by definition. If it doesn’t spend no one does? Haven’t you been to the grocery store this week? Bought gas for your car? Bought SOMETHING? People aren’t buying extra luxury items now because this crisis has made them realize how overextended their credit line was, that will take years to correct and the government will go broke trying to compensate for the lack of private spending. Furthermore, many people aren’t spending because they don’t have a job, 90% of which are provided by the private sector which is also suffering from this recession. Attacking those businesses with more taxes or regulations they have to hire an army of lawyers to interpret is not going to get them to hire people without law degrees, nor will tax credits. A company hires someone expecting years of productive work from them, they will not hire knowing that they’ll just have to fire/lay that person off next year or the year after when the price of doing business skyrockets.
    .
    “…and not all or even most do as far as I can tell – the first ones they lie to and totally convince are themselves.”
    .
    I agree that most of them have already convinced themselves of the lies and therefore may not recognize that they are lying, but they all do it. There are probably a few out there that are truthful all or most of the time, but they are few and far between. To me politicians are sort of like priests or ministers, they are egomaniacs who get a kick out of telling people what to do, how to live their life etc. If liberal politicians didn’t lie why do we still have a war on drugs going with democratic control of everything? Why aren’t drugs, gay marriage, prostitution etc legal and (and in some cases taxed) as they should be? Why do Democrats insist on telling me that they know better how my life should work than I do, how my healthcare should be dispensed that my doctor and I do, that marijuana is a dangerous and addictive drug and that LSD causes mental illness? (Note, every single study ever done in the the 1950’s and 1960’s showed that LSD was not in any way dangerous or addictive and did NOT cause mental illness and was also an effective treatment for drug addiction, PTSD and alcoholism.) By the same token why do Republicans say the same thing on drugs, while also telling me that abstinence only education in public schools is the best course of action while the rate of herpies in high school students sky rockets? Because, when you get right down to it either through self-deception or outright capriciousness they’re all lying to you, me and everyone else. There is ALWAYS an ulterior motive when money and power intersect, which they do for every politician of both parties.

    .
    The only difference between the Left and Right wings of the parties is what they want to control. Ultra-Right Republicans want to control your religion, reproductive system and what you do in the bedroom and with whom, while the Progressives want to leave that alone and control just about everything else, but they especially want to control your money.
    .
    Personally, I prefer to think for myself and sink or swim on my own accord. But then again, I never got along with the BS the shoveled my direction in High School… which explains my lengthy disciplinary record while there. Fortunately the college I went to wasn’t run by a Nazi.

  • 3xfire3

    sasquatch,
    .
    “Personally, I’m not a PhD economist, but I do trend towards the Austrian model of economic theory.”
    .
    Very excellent couple of Posts. It nice to hear from someone who is logical, has an understanding of reality and is not a Partisan-Ideologue. There are way too many of them on this site.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “This is a decent amount of evidence that Reagan broke the back a recession with just those policies, while FDR’s policies may well have extended and deepened the Great Depression. Personally, I’m not a PhD economist, but I do trend towards the Austrian model of economic theory.”
    .
    If you mean Hayek for the Austrian school, they believe that all of economics is a math problem totally independent of government. So, if you follow Classical Economics then you can not say “…FDR’s policies may well have extended and deepened the Great Depression…”. According to the Classical School of Economics, The New Deal and Reaganomics had no impact since the economy was going to do exactly what it was going to do and all we can do is sit back and watch.
    .
    “…I’m not a PhD economist..”
    .
    I just had all of the requirements for an undergraduate in economics completed 17 years ago.
    .
    I have read up in the meantime, and Keynes remains the most accepted theory at 80% of all PhDs.
    .
    So, not to belittle anything, but, saying that FDR prolonged the Great Depression does not have backing from any school of economics and crediting Reagan, rather than the ending of the oil Embargo is accepted by only the now defunct, short lived Supply Side Economics.
    .
    Slightly OT: I took one class called “Environmental Economics” in which the focus was on, what was then called, a very, very conservative economic plan later to be named “Cap & Trade”. The older, Liberal plan was to simply mandate all machinery and vehicles release a particular percent less greenhouse gasses. Since it involved using market forces, Cap and Trade in 1992 was considered “Libertarian/ Conservative”.
    .
    “Why aren’t drugs, gay marriage, prostitution etc legal…”
    .
    I do not know of any Democrats supporting legalization of drugs or prostitution and, myself would not vote for one. For gay marriage vs civil unions, I see no difference since they both, as far as I know, have the same rights.
    .
    In those terms, I guess, I am more conservative than you are.
    .
    For what it’s worth, I am, also, pro-life (but can’t find a candidate who is pro-life who I do not disagree with on absolutely every single other issue out there and, therefore, have not yet, in 21 years, voted for a pro-life candidate).
    .
    “Further government cannot spend it’s own money, it’s ours by definition.”
    .
    Yes, but the government is ours, too. So, in the theoretical, it is like transferring money between your checking account and your savings account if you wish to be hypothetical. Outside of the Department of Defense, we have access to all of the buildings government agencies buy and have their services available to us. So, it is collectively ours.
    .
    “…My problem however is that I watched for 6 years as the Fed’s threw money at the Ohio DOT…”
    .
    The first goal is to get the money from government to households and especially to households who will promptly spend it and put it into the hands of businesses. Some projects are very efficient and others are very inefficient. I don’t know any details about Ohio’s projects.
    .
    “To me politicians are sort of like priests…”
    .
    A funny thing is that I am an atheist, but always found clergy very pleasant and, when trying to find a shelter for somebody who was around my neighborhood who was homeless three days ago, I spent 25 minutes on the phone with a priest. As long as I don’t bring up that I don’t believe that there is anything up there past the Ozone layer worth thinking about, I do just fine with clergy.
    .
    You truly are independent.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    3X,
    .
    17%, smaller than the number of people who identify themselves as “very liberal” according to your previous posts, is nowhere near enough to win a general election.
    .
    The question is not if most or any significant percent of those in the Tea Party approved of the signs which made it into the news. It is can their candidates like Angle win a general election. We’ve been down that tunnel. The racist who were also Tea Party members were in the minority and not in leadership positions but, unlike what you claimed, did and do exist.
    .
    My best estimate: Tea Party candidates can only win general elections in the most consistently conservative Republican districts and, in any other place they run, are likely to push the election over to Democrats (even if Republicans get the house the Tea Party candidates would make it an even smaller majority).

  • 3xfire3

    It is not their purpose to win a general election. It is their purpose to energize the Republican Party so they can win the general Election.
    .
    Looks like their being very successful in that mission.

  • http://milascurtains.wordpress.com milascurtains

    It is hard to predict, actually – we do not know, who are those crazy people.
    And it is always hard to propose what crazy would do next.

    let’s propose, that Normal people are still in majority and would not vote neither for Trash Party nor for TrashPublicans

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