A Sliver of Economic Hope for Obama

I suppose I might as well put the graph up here:
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Graph showing public vs private job growth/decline
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I’ll just let the numbers speak for themselves, even if they do seem anemic.

Why am I reading that it’s just the employer portion of the payroll tax that gets the holiday? What about the workers? We need more money too!

I had rather take medical advice from a witch doctor than hold to any confidience in the job numbers that are posted by the government and these new organizations.

The real jobs number I want to see is the number of employed who are not working for government – city, county, state, federal. The number would not include law enforcement, fire, teachers, and the like. Such a number plus the children, aged, and truly disabled would indicate by difference who is either not working because they cannot find a job, is not going to work, or is working for the government. That lot plus the children, aged, and truly disabled have to be supported by the people who work.

The numbers put out by government are not some counting of heads procedure but are a statistical estimate that is subject to the political winds.

You need not look to Washington to find out the economic picture. Drive through your area and look at the vacant stores, shops, manufacturing plants, and houses and compare that to the wide open business at the court house, jail, and government administrative offices.

Leonhardt: “It’s time to start talking about a tax cut.”

Well, I was able to suppress the urge to hurl my laptop across the room.

When has the GOP ever stopped talking about tax cuts?

“Any of these steps would increase the budget deficit, obviously.”

So a stimulus package is out, because it would increase the deficit. But tax cuts are OK, because they merely increase the deficit.

“The number would not include law enforcement, fire, teachers, and the like”
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Um …. why? Are you planning to fire them all?

You’re missing the subtle nuances.

Stimulus spending increases the deficit.

Tax cuts just make deficits rise.

The country is on the fine edge of economic precip.. right now in a the sense of national financial loss of control. With very low interest rates available to some organizations who do not consider the national interest, the possiblity of borrowing x today to buy foreign currency y that is rapidly rising in value against the dollar, holding that currency for a short while, cashing it in for dollar profit, and doing that all over again with large sums obtained from the low interest rates which are backed by the US taxpayer in actual fact.

The other extreme is tremendous deflation with loss of buying power no matter how low the interest rates go. Maybe the banks would have to pay lenders to borrow money from them. Could that happen. If you know you cannot pay them back no matter what, you would have to be paid to lend.

We are now stuck with some aspects of both, We have deflation in home prices, land value, business value, and some consumer goods. At the same time, food, health care, medicine, taxes, and cost of a funeral are rising.

Jobs are lost because goods and services are not selling. Workers will not work for free. Also, even if they did the employers could not support the overhead associated with the free workers.

Any government will have trouble with the ebb and flow of such a delicate situation. Both high inflation and rapid deflation can be disastorous. A true evaluation of the economy is needed. The stock markets are not a true reflection of the economy. So, without the data, the nation is running blind in a landscape of pits and walls.

When has the GOP ever stopped talking about tax cuts?
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It approximates the same date when liberals stopped talking about higher spending and more regulation

“Why am I reading that it’s just the employer portion of the payroll tax that gets the holiday?”

It’s a lame attempt to burnish Democrats image as being business friendly for the elections. Business will say thank you and horde the cash because they are still wary of the what the federal government may do next.

“When has the GOP ever stopped talking about tax cuts?
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It approximates the same date when liberals stopped talking about higher spending and more regulation.”
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The obvious difference being that taxing, spending and regulation is what government is supposed to do. Tax cuts for the rich, deregulation, and never governing, is what the GOP does.

“A Sliver of Economic Hope for Obama”
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At close to 20% real un and underemployment, millions of Americans losing everything they’ve worked their whole lives for, dozens of good Democratic legislators about to be replaced by lying, traitorous and/or downright crazy Republicans, all because the President let the country’s economic policies be determined by Wall Street sychophants and political hacks like Rahm Emmanuel, I really couldn’t give a rat’s ass about “hope for Obama.”

All I have to say is this:
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We collectively are dense as hell, I guess, since Obama hasn’t been able to wave a magic wand (yes, polite elbow in shep’s side, vigorous NBA quality elbow for the right wing crackheads)!
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Let the GOP have the wheel again, if we as Americans are really that stupid and the majority of us really believe that they have solutions to the problems the recession represents.
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Really! Let them run this country! Everyone seems to have forgotten that they already tried this, and look what happened! If we, collectively, cannot remember what actually happened in the few days just before Bush passed TARP I, we are really, really lost anyway.
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Watch what happens. I have a sneaking hunch the results will not be to their liking…

The scenario you describe is possible. When President Bush was elected in 2000 or so, I had the idea that he should have waited four years for the aftermath of President Clinton’s programs to clear the pipe. However, I think our nation’s problems go back sixty years and are deeply entrenched. President O’Bama, a good irishman, has done some mischief. Yet, he could have done more on the economy and thereby done worse.

Time, if we are given time, will tell.

Hmmm. And the double dip in 1931 to 1936 didn’t larn you anything?
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Like possibly, just possibly, there is no magic wand?
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Like you said yourself:
“I had rather take medical advice from a witch doctor…
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That explains why you put so much faith in FOX. As for when the government funds dry up, watch what happens to “Real America”, who just happen to be net consumers of government money.
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Be afraid. Be very afraid, madmarshan.
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You may just get what you wish for. You might just find that you don’t have any magic wands either…

As our friends on the left continue to lament about all of the “stimulus dollars work” meme from Barack the insane, it is not just the “GOP’s stalwart opposition to more spending, and the coming Republican electoral wave, any new government action to juice the economy will probably take the form of tax cuts”. Or, the Senate Republicans stopping or blocking his small business lending bill”.
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For the now 40% approximately of NON-Government employees in America who are footing the bill for all of this spending, we say “NO MORE”.
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Obama needs to work on cutting spending, reducing or eliminating all abuse and the corrupt spending of our tax dollars on projects to save toads trying to get from one side of the road to the other.
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Once that is done, then come back and we will talk about more Stimulus Spending.

So is national defense, protecting our borders and enforcing our laws (like against illegal immigrants). None of which the Demos are in favor.

“So is national defense, protecting our borders and enforcing our laws (like against illegal immigrants). None of which the Demos are in favor.”
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Which is, ironically, another condemnation of Republican governance, since Obama has done so much better in all three in one quarter of the time Republicans took to do much worse. I suppose as long as they say they “favor” them, that’s good enough for right-wing-authoritarian-following Teatards.

Remember what David Stockman, President Ronald Reagan’s director of the Office of Management and Budget, wrote in a recent New York Times op-ed piece, “Four Deformations of the Apocalypse.”

The day of national reckoning has arrived. We will not have a conventional business recovery now, but rather a long hangover of debt liquidation and downsizing … it’s a pity that the modern Republican party offers the American people an irrelevant platform of recycled Keynesianism when the old approach — balanced budgets, sound money and financial discipline — is needed more than ever.

Liberals saying so does not make it a fact except to them.
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But if you mean that over the last 18 months the number of those crossing has decreased, yes. But that is just another vote against Obama. They come here for economic reasons and even they illegals have no confidence in his economic plans.

Like Romer said: We underestimated the problem, we had the wrong solution and we still don’t know what when wrong. Liberalism at its best!

“But if you mean that over the last 18 months the number of those crossing has decreased, yes. But that is just another vote against Obama. They come here for economic reasons and even they illegals have no confidence in his economic plans.”
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Well, sure, I’m willing to bet that illegal immigrants understand Obama’s “economic plans” every bit as well as the Teatards. Nevertheless, what you are saying is that even when Democrats fail, they still do better than Republicans.

A fragile economy is a frail old man. He does not need to be pushed about from left to right and given heavy burdens to bear. Rather, let him play out his time until a new generation can come on strong.

OK, let’s try again. To conduct civil discourse (and to actually try to persuade people to your point of view rather than narcissistically shout at the moon), how about starting with one simple rule:

Don’t call people who disagree with you ugly names. In classical rhetoric, this is called an ad hominem fallacy – essentially, responding to an opponent’s argument with some version of “your feet stink and your mama’s ugly.”

Instead, affirm what you believe in and show that your opponent’s argument is either (a.) mistaken about facts; or (b.) inconsistent with values that you and your reader share.

If you have only contempt for those who read you, how can you expect to change their minds? And if you aren’t honestly engaged in trying to change someone’s mind, why bother?

“If you have only contempt for those who read you, how can you expect to change their minds? And if you aren’t honestly engaged in trying to change someone’s mind, why bother?”
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The mistake you are making is common among liberals (everyone really since its a form of projection). To use Paul Rosenberg’s formulation, it’s that you are “invoking a counter set of cognitive motivations and biases–ones that are generally much sounder and saner, but that totally mislead when one is trying to understand and respond effectively to conservative attacks.”
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Read more here:
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http://www.openleft.com/diary/20021/matt-yglesias-is-delusional

words for EVERY commenter to consider, even mycophile
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what seems less-than-ugly “mocking” to one person can easily seem very insulting to another.
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1000-words is a great place to have fun with words and characatures (sic) I encourage the Swampbloggers to post at least one every day, to provide outlet, and for Swampers to use it religiously (to borrow a phrase)
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Oops, just ignored my own advice . . .

You argue against yourself. The peak of illegal immigrants according to Pew was 2007. Obama elected in 2008. The number is down now and the number of new illegals crossing has slowed.

In what twisted idiotic universe does that translate into:what you are saying is that even when Democrats fail, they still do better than Republicans.”

The only plausible answer is by failing you mean wrecking the economy to rid the US of illegals—Mission Accomplished!

A) my 7.3 was @ 7.1
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B) I followed the link @ 7.2, but did not see anything that looked like it was relevant to the quoted subject of 7.2.
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Nor did I quite understand what was being said in 7.2
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Clarification for the challenged?

balaamish:
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I do understand what you are saying. But, when you read a biased post as we were given, which is sounding the horn for just those of the liberal persuasion to respond positively, it is very difficult to not feed it right back to those writers in kind.
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Case in point and example:
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“The president just spoke from the Rose garden this morning to hail the somewhat encouraging new job numbers, which while terrible by most definitions came in better than expected, and at least signal that we’re probably not (yet) veering into a dreaded double-dip recession”
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This statement in and of itself is fine. I have absolutely no problem what-so-ever with the writer making this statement. Where it goes terribly wrong, and also sets up a negative response back to this specific writer is when they make the statement; “Obama said that his policies have managed to “break the back” of the current recession–and called (for at least the third time) on Senate Republicans to stop blocking his small business lending bill.”
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“Senate Republicans blocking his small business lending bill”????….”Given the GOP’s stalwart opposition to more spending, and the coming Republican electoral wave, any new government action to juice the economy will probably take the form of tax cuts.”???
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You see I do not feel it is necessary to blast Republicans for the failures of the economic policy decisions this President has made thus far. We have spent over 1 TRILLION dollars. That is no small chunk of change, that is a HUGE amount of money which will more than likely never be repaid in the remainder of my lifetime.
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In reality there will never be any tax cuts going forward. What we all face, at least those tax payers like me is nothing more than more taxes being taken by this government.
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So yes, I take great offense at how the writer sets up this story to report on it from the onset. I also will continue to respond to these unfounded an negative charges leveled against myself as a Republican / Conservative and point out to the contrary the policy decisions by the Democrats, both this Democrat President and the Democrat controlled House and Senate have made.
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If they truly wanted to do the things they want to do, they do not need the Republicans to agree with or even condone or vote for it. But, for the sake of not falling on the sword themselves, they want Republicans to not only go along with it, but to mutually fall on the sword too, even when in opposition to this lunacy of spending.
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Coming on here to attack me for speaking my mind to an obviously biased report is also equally insulting. I suggest you heed your own advice next time, and merely bypass my comments if they offend you so much.
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Don’t call people who disagree with you ugly names . . . (because) . . .If you have only contempt for those who read you, how can you expect to change their minds?

While seeming like very good and helpful advice to me, to some people it can instead feel like insulting criticism of their right to speak their mind.
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Why the Lord designed humans to see things so differently is curious. I guess He works in strange ways.

“The only plausible answer is by failing you mean wrecking the economy to rid the US of illegals—Mission Accomplished!”
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OK then, when you’re right, you’re right. Wrecking the economy was (mostly) a Republican policy outcome (“Mission Accomplished,” indeed). I just never made the connection to illegal immigration. You must be so proud.

Jon growth needs to be better but since the start of President Obama’s term in office, the economy has created more jobs than President Bush over 8 years.

And Rusty wants to make an issue of $1 trillion. Wll, where was he when Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II ran the deficit up about $10 trillion. Oh, they were Republicants so it doesn’t matter.

If you do take over the House and Senate, you will play hell trying to fix what your party broke and, in fact, there doesn’t seem to be an Republicant plan other than NO!

If you do take over the House and Senate

“you”? Please tell me this is not possibly suggesting . . .

, you will play hell trying to fix what your party broke

I must have skipped the era when the Tea Party was in power

Riiiiiiiiight. You libbertariansus gots it all figgered out, doncha.
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Except that if the “frail old man” falls over and dies from not being resuscitated (DNR in medical parlance), how many Americans will face penury at best, or death by starvation at worst?
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Thanks madmarshen for yet another nugget of wisdom! If you must know, I think you shouldn’t find it too much of a surprise if I’m not willing to sacrifice my wife’s life on the alter of the Free Market…

mycophile:
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It was a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.
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Oh, nevermind. That was Star Wars…

Ok, I’m gonna run in a different direction that usual and just ignore the previous question. However, I’m going to throw out some numbers I just ran after watching an argument about all of this on TV.
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The argument was actually about the 99 weeks of unemployment insurance and how it causes people to be lazy vs. the “they need our help” argument.
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Why WOULDN’T you stay on unemployment when the best job many can hope for these days is $10/hr at McD’s?
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Below is my startling calculation on taxes on a person in the current economy. Keep in mind that NOT ONE group that has run the numbers says we can afford the whole compliment of Democratic suggestions (i.e. adding cap and trade and card check for example) without raising taxes on EVERYONE.
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(Note, for purposes of ease, I assumed that this hypothetical person makes $12/hr 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year with no deductions. The assumption being that time off, sick etc will bring the 1.5x they get for any overtime back to basic parity with a regular 40 hour work week over the course of the year. Also, incorporating all the “what if’s” of overtime, sick time, travel for family emergencies, deductions etc would make this calculation impossible. So for the love of Christ don’t nit-pick this).
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(12x40x52) = $24,960 pre tax, or $2080/month pre tax.
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Current tax code says the calculation on this is as follows ((24960-8375)x.15)+837.50 = $3271.25. Or 24960-8375=16225, 16225x.15=2433.75, 2433.75+837.50= 3271.25.
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So your total taxes for the year are $3271.25
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Now Pretax you make $2080 per month, which means you pay 1.57 months of PREtax income in taxes when you make $12/hr.
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I currently pay $804 per month in rent, which means a person making $12/hr could pay 4.07 months of rent with that amount of money. Most of which the government wastes.
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Keep in mind this person also has to pay SSI, FICA, State Income Tax, Sales Tax….
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And you wonder why people complain they might be getting ripped off when Congress is approaching a 10% approval rating? Is that REALLY what we’re paying for? A bunch of retards on both sides spending money willy nilly on crap we don’t really need, running out and borrowing Trillions more? REALLY?
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Libertarians are right (full disclosure for you newbies I am one) you’re all insane to support either party.
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Aren’t there things you could actually use that $3271.25 for? Maybe your kids college fund? Jesus, I pay WAY less than that for awesome PRIVATE health insurance.
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It’s not my insurance premium that really kills me, it’s my taxes (of course, I pay a lot more than $3271.25). I can think of a million things I’d rather spend it on.
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Perhaps a tax credit for those with health insurance would have been a good idea? Oh, wait, that wouldn’t have helped the Saul D Alinsky battle plan for a socialist utopia… nevermind.

Well said.. it seems the government is under the false impression that American’s are dumb.. well at least they are attempting to make the next generation dumb when they spew their propaganda.. thank God there are still people who were raised using COMMON SENSE and don’t buy into the status that the government puts out.. and that would include jobs SAVED which people are aware are GOVERNMENT jobs either FEDERAL .. STATE ..or LOCAL.. IF the government had given all the money from the bailouts and stimulus to the people who work equally NONE of us would be hurting NOW.. small businesses would have had money to stay open and the people would have money to spend in their shops.. but the way it was done the MIDDLE CLASS, LOWER MIDDLE CLASS and those just making ends meet are unable to do any more than survive and pay taxes..THE PEOPLE should have come FIRST.. BIG BUSINESS, WALL STREET and UNIONS last.. now as it turns out if you have any money left at the end of the week the average person is SAVING it at home not in the banks.. BTW.. personally I beleive they bailed out Wall street because that is where they make all their money..

There is NO sliver of hope for OBAMA.. even IF he took the stimulus money he’s been HORDING and will let go of right before the election PEOPLE already BELIEVE that is his plan.. so they will take the money and vote against the Democrats.. Nothing has changed fact is they are WORSE and Obamacare..and the tax breaks that are going to expire will make things WORSE not better.. all the breaks Obama has given were to BIG BUSINESS.. NOT THE PEOPLE (that $6 a week is a joke).. More businesses are closing and those open are not hiring they like Obama are hording the money..I don’t blame them if I had a business I wouldn’t be spending right now either.. and if I had the money I would not attempt to open a business as along as the current administration is running things.. People are making more Bartering and having garage sales..