It Ain’t Just a River in Egypt

Like a deserted wife who, years after the fact, still insists her husband is due home any day, AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka seems a bit out of touch. Making the traditional Labor Day rounds, his assertions about what voters will be swayed by and how races will pan out this fall just don’t jibe with the zeitgeist (or the poll numbers). Here are three examples of positions that might elicit a sidelong glance and puns about “da Nile.”

1. Trumka said yesterday at a press conference that “There will be no Speaker Boehner,” and continued to assert this morning at a Christian Science Monitor breakfast that there’s pretty much no way Republicans will gain control of the House or the Senate.

While, sure, nothing is certain, a Gallup poll released a few days ago showed an “unprecedented” lead for Republicans on the generic ballot. Estimates of how many seats they’ll gain in the House have been hovering around the 45 to 50 range, and they need 39 to take the reins. And while the upper-house outlook isn’t quite so bad for Democrats, with estimates ranging just below the 10-seat mark that Republicans need to hit, prognosticator Larry Sabato points out that of the six times the House has flipped since World War II, “the Senate flipped too, even when it had not been predicted to do so. These few examples do not create an iron law of politics, but they do suggest an electoral tendency.”

2. The AFL-CIO is starting a huge campaign over the next two months to help their friends out in the run up to the election, and Trumka believes that facts can triumph feelings in terms of swaying voters.

He pits himself and the Democrats against the Tea Partyers and their “corporate backers,” not only in terms of having the interests of the “working people” at heart but in terms of capitalizing on the current of discontent running through the country. Recently, and again this morning, he equated Sarah Palin’s “fomenting” speeches, wherein she stirs the people up against the establishment, with McCarthyism. (He also quipped, in response to her calling him a Washington insider, that he spent more time in the mines than she did in her job as governor.) But like it or not, the Glenn Becks and Palins of the world have been effective in their vague, vindicating speeches to the disgruntled masses.

Rather than give them catharsis, Trumka says voters just need to know the facts. He quoted the statistic that for every $1 in tax cuts, only $1.04 is consumer spending is generated, as opposed to $1 in food stamps, which generates about $1.74 in spending. But that stat, while a smart argument against standard Republican fare, is hardly the type of passion-stirring point a volunteer can use to change minds on a stranger’s doorstep.

3. Trumka said that the passage of health care reform is something that voters feel either neutral or positive about in the 400 races the AFL-CIO is trying to help win.

Real Clear Politics’ most recent aggregate average of how people feel about health care is that 51% still oppose it, while 39% percent are in favor. And there’s plenty of less scientific evidence to support the people’s not-so-neutral stance. Tea Party cries about evil “Obamacare” are in no short supply. (Such was certainly the case when I covered Glenn Beck’s rally on Saturday.)

Obama is set to appear with Trumka for a Milwaukee Labor Day event, but if that’s going to turn out to be a really profitable partnership, they’re going to need to acknowledge what the people are feeling — rather than tell the media that the people aren’t feeling it.

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  • sacoharry

    I think we’ll know what we know when we know it. Let’s not forget the “seething cauldron of town-hall rage” last summer that succeeded in… what, again?

    Judging national mood by polls taken in the dead-time of August makes for fun punditry and page hits. But the 2 months to November is an eternity.

  • kbanginmotown

    To summarize:
    .
    1) …the Glenn Becks and Palins of the world have been effective in their vague, vindicating speeches…
    .
    2) But that stat, …is hardly the type of passion-stirring point…
    .
    3) …how people feel about health care…
    .
    Style: 3
    Substance:0
    .
    ::rolls eyes::
    ::makes pun about “da Village”…::

  • centfan

    “But that stat, while a smart argument against standard Republican fare, is hardly the type of passion-stirring point a volunteer can use to change minds on a stranger’s doorstep.”
    -
    “…if that’s going to turn out to be a really profitable partnership, they’re going to need to acknowledge what the people are feeling — rather than tell the media that the people aren’t feeling it.”
    -
    So you’re saying that this country wins by acknowledging that voters are uninformed idiots who won’t believe the truth that they can use to help their situation but rather should be told lies to make them feel good or fixate on “forces of evil” so that self-serving politicians can perpetuate their own good fortunes through corporate greed or the uncertainty and fear created by promoting wars and ideological conflict.
    -
    … and as a member of the media who resents “being told” anything you’re okay with the rules of that game and the way it’s played. Heck, you’re fascinated by it…

  • m0mentom0ri

    “But that stat, while a smart argument against standard Republican fare, is hardly the type of passion-stirring point a volunteer can use to change minds on a stranger’s doorstep.”
    .
    Yes. “They’re going to Death Panel your granny” works much better.
    .
    Now if only there was some sort of group of people that could cut through the chatter and provide people with facts over rhetoric. Maybe they can print these facts in some sort of periodic journal, or publish them on the internet. Maybe they could even press politicians for facts in support of the politician’s statements. Hey that’s a good name! We can call them “The Press”!
    .
    I need to trademark this idea before someone else steals it…

  • deconstructiva

    Katy, thanks for your thoughts (and Alex too). Which one of you came up with the title? Sure, there’s a poll with a generic R ballot’s good results, but whither results when a specific R name is attached? Harry Reid may be unpopular but Angle is no sure bet to beat him.

  • shepherdwong

    But like it or not, the Glenn Becks and Palins of the world have been effective in their vague, vindicating speeches to the disgruntled masses.
    .
    Gee, do you think it might have anything to do with the GIANT FOX MEGAPHONE they use? Until you people can manage to describe the actual political/media landscape that creates whatever partisan dynamics that exist, there’s no reason to take your political opinions seriously.

  • sacredh

    I think Trumka is in denial too. It’s not a question of if we lose seats, it’s a question of how many. If both Angle and Rand Paul win their respective races, I think it’s going to be a really bad night for the democrats. If Crist loses too, I think that’s when we should expect the worst. I know, Crist was recently a republican that turned independent, but my money is on Charlie to caucus with the democrats if we retain control of the senate. He’s making all the sounds like he’s courting the democratic vote instead of the republican vote.
    .
    It’s still two months away and anything can happen, but I feel our best case scenario is just losing the house. If Paul and Angle both lose, I’ll go to bed expecting to wake up with the senate still in democratic control. Either way, I’m not going to lose any sleep over the outcome. All I can do is cast my vote and wait for the results to start coming it. Sh!t happens.

  • allthingsinaname

    Yes perhaps he isn’t facing reality as you see it but neither did he see the death panels, the socialism, Marxist, Fascist, Muslim, Non-American President as the Press did.
    .
    So while you are proclaiming reality now, where have you been the last 20 months or so?

  • sacredh

    It does amaze me that people will latch onto the most illogical lies and outright distortions and regard them as the gospel. You left out the anti-Christ capper. I personally know at least a dozen people that claim Barack is the anti-Christ. How can you even argue with people that believe such nonsense? It’s like arguing with a two year old that wants dinner to be chocolate cake. All they know is that they know what they want.

  • uniquelychristianthinker

    He quoted the statistic that for every $1 in tax cuts, only $1.04 is consumer spending is generated, as opposed to $1 in food stamps, which generates about $1.74 in spending. But that stat, while a smart argument against standard Republican fare, is hardly the type of passion-stirring point a volunteer can use to change minds on a stranger’s doorstep.
    .
    if I may speak form the a rural area filled with rural voters…this is 100% dead-on. To the woman who cuts my bologna at the Wal-Mart deli (and who also votes), this statement is meaningless. Where is the context? Where is the application to the life of the average American?
    .
    Gee, do you think it might have anything to do with the GIANT FOX MEGAPHONE they use?
    .
    The size of that megaphone is dictated by the amount of resonance perceived by the hearers. If the broadcasts didn’t reflect the views of the viewers, they would stop watching and the megaphone would shrink. The greatest appeal that many right -wing figures posses is that they appear as someone you might run into at Home Depot on a Saturday morning. They have the ability to communicate the effects of legislation into forms that fit within an average person’s lifestyle (even if you disagree with their interpretation). They have grasped the truth that each individual gets a vote and that there are far more votes shopping at Wal-Mart than Whole Foods Market.

  • uniquelychristianthinker

    goodness…that post has a lot of typos… but i think you’ll get the gist
    ** If I may speak FROM a rural area..**

  • shepherdwong

    If both Angle and Rand Paul win their respective races, I think it’s going to be a really bad night for the democrats.
    .
    Are you f@cking kidding?! It’s going to be a very bad night for everyone.

  • shepherdwong

    If the broadcasts didn’t reflect the views of the viewers, they would stop watching and the megaphone would shrink.
    .
    Well, sure. That’s why propaganda was invented in the first place, to reflect the views of the viewers. Idiot.

  • 3xfire3

    I find all the wishful thinking and dreaming by liberals to be quite comical.
    .
    Take the time to read the article referenced by Larry Sabato. Link below
    .
    Trumka won’t be able to deliver his own union members to the Democrats in November.
    .
    http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/ljs2010090201/

  • Alex Vallas

    The polls go up and down like a yo-yo. There are too many predictions and no one knows exactly how the questions were phrased. I would not count out the Democratic Party just yet. Unfortunately, a large number of Americans are really clueless when it comes to the issues. They jump on the bandwagon without studying the consequences. Supposedly, there is a lot of support for the GOP and Tea Party. How many Americans know that three billionaires are actually funding the movement by hundreds of millions of dollars. The key figures are David Murdoch, an Australian, who owns Fox News and uses it to promote his own beliefs. The other two are the Koch brothers. These billionaires want to dismantle the fundamental government safety nets designed to protect the unemployed, public health, workplace safety and the subsistence of the elderly.
    What does this mean? Running up the deficit by trillions of dollars to support tax cuts for the VERY rich. Oppose oversight of the oil industry and offshore drilling, eliminate unemployment benefits, freeze regulations with respect to oil, finance, pharmaceutical and agricultural entities. That includes EGGS people. Some like Pearl want to do away with social security, federal funding of highways, the Department of Education, the CIA. I guess they want a decentralized government something like Afghanistan.
    Wasn’t it Rand Paul who said accidents happen with respect to mine disasters and the Gulf Spill. He does not believe in regulating them. Here is a doctor who doesn’t want the public protected against harmful drugs.
    Poor Sarah Palin….she is being used and is too stupid to realize it. Of course, she is only one of many.
    If the American public were more aware of what is happening, including who is greasing the palms of Boozing Boehner, who would become Speaker, and Mumbling McConnell who would become Majority Leader. Also scary – Eric Cantor is ready to stick it to Boehner if the GOP comes out ahead. He is VERY ambitious. He also has conducted some activities that would indicate he has greater allegiance to Israel than the US. Why else would he ask Rhamm Emanuel to ask the President to go lightly on Israel when they were violating our agreements re building of illegal settlements, etc…. His concern should be that all countries, I repeat all, honor our agreements.
    The list goes on and on……
    I plan to post this on many sites.

  • allthingsinaname

    First we tell them what they want to hear, then we deliver what we tell them what they want to hear.
    .
    It is the bases of any advertisement of any product, create the demand. It is brain washing by any standard.

  • stuartzechman

    I need to trademark this idea before someone else steals it…
    .
    It’ll never work –not with all of the constitutional restrictions on speech under which we suffer.

  • sacredh

    shepherdwong. I completely agree. My point was that if two canidates as fringe as them can win, something is going to be going on that throws everything into question. I picked those two out because I feel that neither one of them should even have any chance of prevailing. If they win, I’m going to turn off the tv. I don’t want to see what happens next.

  • deconstructiva

    I’d question the WMT vs. WFMI analogy. More voters shop at Walmart than Whole Foods because that’s all they can afford, esp. thanks to the recession and job losses. However, with careful cherry picking of sales and private labels, shopping at WFMI is getting better, but still not all everyday things are accessible to the peasants. It’s no coincidence that most WFMI stores are located in affluent areas (with the notable exception of Texas) while WMT’s are more common in poorer areas.

  • uniquelychristianthinker

    shepherdwong:
    .
    Well, sure. That’s why propaganda was invented in the first place, to reflect the views of the viewers. Idiot.
    .
    Not entirely correct, propaganda was invented to turn the views of viewers in a particular direction. you may be convinced that FOX is doing exactly that (as some are convinced that CNN is doing exactly that).
    However, you miss the point about resonance, connecting with the average voter, the people so busy attempting to navigate a life of work, soccer practices, PTA meetings etc that they have only enough time for applicable information (pre-digested news if you will). Though this may revolt you, it is reality in a great many areas of the country.
    .
    the close of your comment does nothing to dilute the perception that people with left leaning views are less-than-charitable to those with differing opinions.

  • sacredh

    The cold, hard truth is that a person that casts their vote based on factual analysis and relection and a person that casts their vote based on rumors, irrationality and fear still counts as the same. That’s true of either party. A doctor’s vote counts as the same as a witch doctor’s vote. People are p!ssed off. Somebody is going to pay and it’s usually the party in office at the time. It really doesn’t matter if the vote is fairly arrived at or not. Only the results count.

  • shepherdwong

    However, you miss the point about resonance…
    .
    You didn’t make one. You said, “If the broadcasts didn’t reflect the views of the viewers, they would stop watching and the megaphone would shrink,” suggesting that that viewers would “stop watching” propaganda that was new to them, i.e., “didn’t reflect [their] views.” Do explain the 7% of Americans and 14% of Republicans who didn’t think the President was a Muslim a little over a year ago who think so now. You can do the same exercise with the “Socialist” moniker or any number of “views” that the right-wing lie machine has inculcated in the public at large.
    .
    As far as “resonance” goes, that’s a very good point. Racist, xenophobic and anti-liberal hatred do indeed “resonate” with certain personality/demographics, which is exactly why it’s so psychopathic and traitorous to intentionally inflame them for partisan political gain. That’s what News Corp. and Clear Channel are in business for and they are quite obviously being quite successful in their greedy, psychopathic treason.

  • shepherdwong

    I got your point sacredh. If you don’t want to see what happens next, it’s because the political sickness in this country is currently been reduced by the press narrative into what’s bad for Democrats and even a lot of Democrats aren’t feeling particularly invested in that. IOW, it’s another legacy media-promulgated right-wing frame. The election of the radical and extreme Republicans to greater dominance over policy at this moment will be an unmitigated disaster for every American citizen and the rest of the world along with them. As long as our heads are being shoved by the mainstream press into the cesspool of Dems versus Republicans, no one will see what’s really at stake.

  • m0mentom0ri

    “They have grasped the truth that each individual gets a vote and that there are far more votes shopping at Wal-Mart than Whole Foods Market.”
    .
    They have grasped the truth that some voters are easily manipulated via rhetoric and emotion. Politicians and media who focus on “Death Panels for Granny” and “George Soros is turning America into a Marxist police state” are not representing or informing these voters, its manipulating them to vote against their own interests by appealing to their worst instincts and greatest fears.

  • stuartzechman

    There are some interesting discussions in this thread, I hesitate to intrude…

  • shepherdwong

    Oh, go ahead and “intrude”. What do you think of the legacy media’s “policy” of ignoring the twin elephants in the room – Republican extremism and their giant propaganda machine’s success at misinforming the public-at-large – as they discuss public opinion and “the Democrats’ woes?

  • Paul-no not that one

    “if I may speak from the a rural area filled with rural voters…this is 100% dead-on. To the woman who cuts my bologna at the Wal-Mart deli (and who also votes), this statement is meaningless. Where is the context? Where is the application to the life of the average American?”
    .
    There is a point there. Taking Shep’s points about how the Republicans are connecting aside there certainly is at least a perception that they are indeed connecting.
    .
    And the reverse was true the last two cyles.
    .
    Are the Democratic candidates that much different than 2006 and 2008? I wouldn’t think so.
    .
    If the Republicans are tapping into an anger, so much anger that they vote against their own self interests illustrated by tax cuts versus food stamp return to the economy, and the Democrats aren’t it best not ignored.
    .
    Framed as populism both sides could tap into it.

  • sacredh

    SZ, please intrude. I’m leaving for the fair in an hour and won’t be back until after midnight. We were going to leave at 3 but it’s so f’ing hot we pushed it back by an hour. I just finished washing the car and I’m melting.

  • uniquelychristianthinker

    Question for mementomori and shepherdwong..
    .
    Do you honestly (truly, at the depth of your being) believe that every voter who votes republican is only doing so based on racism, xenophobia, rhetoric and/or emotions such as anti-liberal hatred? Does that seem possible?
    .
    Does there exist, in your world view, a person who, through their knowledge (however limited or expansive) of the both the issues and the politicians involved, has thoughtfully arrived at a different point of view from your own?
    .
    I’m just curious based on your previous comments which, I am loathe to admit, come off sounding slightly like xenophobic and emotional rhetoric..

  • shepherdwong

    Do you honestly (truly, at the depth of your being) believe that every voter who votes republican is only doing so based on racism, xenophobia, rhetoric and/or emotions such as anti-liberal hatred? [emphasis mine]”
    .
    No. This has been another episode of easy answers to stupid, straw man questions.

  • sacredh

    I agree with that also. Much of the anger is media driven and they feel the need to remind people daily just how angry they are to keep the headlines coming. Times are bad. Only a foolish individual would dispute that. However, I see only one party trying to do anything about it. What does the media focus on? Do they focus on the party that is putting all of their efforts into fixing the problems? No. They focus on how angry people are that nothing is getting done and that the democrats are in charge while nothing is getting accomplished. Then they give give most of the press to the very people that are creating the obstructions. It’s like blaming all of the blood on the highway on the person that got ran over rather than on the drunk driver that hit them.

  • freeinpa

    In case anyone is still wondering why the economy is struggling and the Dems are in trouble. Even one of Obama’s big supporters has figured out that a Community Organizer is a bit different than the President of the US or even the President of any business.. Wonder how many more revelations will come to light as the rats start jumping ship.

    he Huffington Post got a leaked copy and there is plenty there that will play into this years’ elections – especially since this is the first kiss-and-tell book from the Obama team.

    Key points from the article and excerpts:

    -When Obama was told of the plan to pay GM CEO Rick Wagoner a $7.1 million severance package after Obama ordered that he be sacked, Rattner writes: “Suddenly I felt that I was indeed in the presence of a community organizer…”

    -Rattner describes presidential political adviser David Axelrod coming to car meetings armed with poll data to support the takeover and Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel identify Congressmen in whose districts large Chrysler facilities were located.

    -”[Obama's economic team] veered dangerously close to having the government take control of the two most troubled banks, Bank of America and Citigroup.”

    -”If his team had linked arms with the outgoing administration, as President Bush’s advisers had proposed, billions of dollars could well have been saved.”

    -Rattner says Chief of Staff Rahm Emanual dictated Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner’s schedule, public appearances and staff selections.

    -He says Obama economic advisers Larry Summers and Austan Goolsbee and FDIC Chair Sheila Bair as enemies who slowed down decision making with infighting

    -Rattner said Obama was frustrated with the auto companies from the start: “Why can’t they make a Corolla?” he has Obama asking

  • sacredh

    The guy that Obama wanted sacked has bad things to say about Obama? I’m shocked. I want to know what Bill Clinton really thought of Kenneth Starr. That would be an unbiased opinion too.

  • sacredh

    I’m off to the fair. Have fun folks.

  • freeinpa

    Sorry Sacreh your knee-jerk lineral defense kicked in ahead of your good sense. This was not a hostile that was hired to investigate him, it was a campaigner, contributor and supporter who bought into the mystique and had a rude awakening.

    Have a funnel cake for me.

  • m0mentom0ri

    “Do you honestly (truly, at the depth of your being) believe that every voter who votes republican is only doing so based on racism, xenophobia, rhetoric and/or emotions such as anti-liberal hatred? Does that seem possible?”
    .
    Not every voter, no. No more than I would say everyone who votes Democratic does so they can avoid getting a job, want forced redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor, and plan on outlawing Christianity.
    .
    What I despise is misinformation from any side, right or left. I despise people being manipulated by self-motivated charlatans, right or left.
    .
    I’m hearing an awful lot of misinformation coming from the right. Death Panels for granny, illegals beheading people in the Arizona desert, secularists wanting to outlaw religion, etc etc. These aren’t from the fringe, either. These are from mainstream conservatives voices and viable conservative candidates, and I have a hard time finding similar examples from the left unless I go to some MichaelFury-esque* nutcase.
    .
    The right no longer seems interested in the best and brightest their cause has to offer. They’ve passed over the intellectuals like Goldwater for the more sensationalistic Becks and Bachmanns. I long for honest conservative arguments from well-informed supporters. Or at the very least, an honest argument. Instead, I’m called a ‘libtard” and told I want to kill your grandmother and cancel Christmas. Neither of which I’m inclined to support, or know of a candidate from the left who promotes that.
    .
    I also believe that many on the right are capitalizing on people worst fears in order to promote a secondary agenda. Hispanics want to annex the southwest! The gays have an agenda! The president is a Kenyan Muslim Marxist! More tax breaks for the top 1% OR WE’RE ALL DOOMED! It’s that sort of rhetoric that gets my goat. I’ll argue supply-side economics with you all day, but call me fascist and accuse me of destroying America, and I’ll quickly tell you where to go and what to do when you get there.
    .
    I appreciate your tone, uniquely, and I appreciate your desire to dialogue. Truly. I look forward to further discussions. I hope it serves as an example on how to debate passionately without resorting to personal attacks or absurd arguments. If there was more of that, there’d be a better chance of us finding common ground than the ‘us vs them’ we currently have masquerading as a discussion. I hope we can disagree, without being disagreeable.
    .
    *Inside joke for long-time Swamplanders

  • freeinpa

    You can do the same exercise with the “Tea Party is racist” The public was bombarded by the MSM in TV, newspaper, liberal talk radio (ok so there are only 50 listeners total) and magazine print.

    I am sure you will argue that they were only presenting the “facts” which is the same response that can be used to your questions. Except you only assume the left to have the facts and everyone else lies. That is a tired meme that has now grown exceedingly tedious. The discussion here yesterday on Obama and his broken HC promises and taxes. I received tortuous responses to how they were an optional payment and not a tax. Of course the IRS always enforces “optional payments”. We elected a President without any real knowledge of any beliefs. Any questions posed by conservatives was met with immediate defense and the old favorite “racism” charge.
    The left needs a new game to play.

  • m0mentom0ri

    “No.”
    .
    Heh, we took two different roads, didn’t we shep?
    . ;-)

  • apr2563

    Almost every election cycle the traditional press leaps on a central theme and tries to make sure it is true by repeating the theme over and over.
    .
    I have no doubt the Dems will suffer large losses in the next election. The pundits, who are so often wrong, will then be able to say they told us so. They will then move to the next herd topic to hyperventilate.
    .
    They will love all the Issa investigations. They sure loved the Clinton gates. The breathless reporting will be so easy. Fox will lead them.

  • m0mentom0ri

    Freepy. There IS an element of racism in certain segments of the Tea Partiers. Google “Mark Williams Tea Party” if you don’t believe me.
    .
    I’ll say this, though. You are right in saying the media characterizes the entire Tea Party movement with the same brush. I think this is over-simplification of what is essentially a populist movement, combined with the usual condescension the media has for middle America, to determent of all involved, both those in support of the Tea Parties and those against.
    .
    I may not be in support of the Tea Party’s goals or ideology, but nor do I think they should all be written off as angry, xenophobic, know-nothings.

  • shepherdwong

    It’s like blaming all of the blood on the highway on the person that got ran over rather than on the drunk driver that hit them.
    .
    Yep. That’s exactly what our “unbiased” professional press corps. is doing. They are so afraid of Republicans, just like everyone else in the Village, they don’t dare tell the truth about who’s to blame.

  • apr2563

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/02/jan-brewer-starts-badly-f_n_703559.html
    .
    Watch the train wreck performance of Jan Brewer in her debate with the Dem opponent. She can’t even make a coherent openning statement, avoids the mythical “beheading” challenge, and like Angle flees questioning reporters after the debate.
    It is hard to believe that people will vote for her and the other reactionary Reps., but the megaphone will probably prevail.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    So far, it seems, the media only has generic ballot polls they use over and over.
    .
    If we had proportional representation so that the top ten candidates win, Democrats are, definitely going to lose out.
    .
    However, in a race by race analysis, it looks much different:
    .
    http://www.electionprojection.com/index.php
    .
    This website uses the other polls – not there own – to determine how each individual race comes out.
    .
    Some people will say that they do not like “Democrats” generically but consider their own Democratic representative very good.
    .
    It appears to be 36 losses for Democrats in the house which will put the house at 215 Republics to 220 Democrats – a thin Democratic majority.
    .
    For the Senate, it puts it at 48 Republicans, 2 Independents (including Lieberman) and 50 Democrats.
    .
    I think “da Nile” or Denial is a little bit extreme for these types of polls with 61 days left and the media salivating over relatively pointless generic ballots.
    .
    I will not bet on Democrats keeping both or even either of the houses, but, I believe it is slightly more likely than unlikely and have every reason to hope for it.

  • freeinpa

    Did you ever read a paper during the Reagan or Bush years?

    I will agree with you on one point, the pundits are typically wrong. Agreed. Carville was wrong when he said conservatism was dead for the next 40 years. WaPo, NYT ABC, NBC CBS, MSNBC, Newsweek, Time have been wrong that the Tea Party is nothing but racists, the country is Islamophobic and hate Obama because he is black.

    I guess it just depends whose ox is gored when you talk about pundits

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    ” This was not a hostile that was hired to investigate him, it was a campaigner, contributor and supporter who bought into the mystique and had a rude awakening.”
    .
    GM CEO Rick Wagoner did have a rude awakening: he realized that he was an overpaid moron and blamed Obama for it.
    .
    He sounds like you: an overpaid moron.

  • pelhamite1

    Today, Uniquely Christian, I think you are dead on, and a key element is perhaps that, on the “cultural” issues, the Republicans generally are more in line with the folks in the rural Walmarts than many of the Democrats. in light of the skepticism that many of your neighbors (i’m guessing) have about abortion, immigration, gay rights and the onslaught of sexuality that seems to come in from the coasts in an unending wave, even the mosque issues, the Democrats in many ways start off with several strikes against them in convincing folks in these demogrphics that their economic program reall is in their best interest. There are many “legitimate” reasons to vote Republican depending on the values one holds, even though I sincerely feel that the aggregate impact that a Republican majority would have on our economy would be disastrous.

  • freeinpa

    And there is racism in the left as well. The difference, the left will take one incident and paint the entire movement. When they are caught in ginning up racism (Like the Congressman accusing Tea Party of racial slurs) or the Rev Wright, or Sharpton or Van Jones we get the black community is not monolithic

    And whether you agree or not the press id predominately left and have portrayed every issue from that post. Now the Tea Party has taken prominence as a national movement, the MSM is stamping their feet having breakdowns because no one will listen to them.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “WaPo, NYT ABC, NBC CBS, MSNBC, Newsweek, Time have been wrong that the Tea Party is nothing but racists, the country is Islamophobic and hate Obama because he is black.”
    .
    First, you do not make the distinction between a significant percent and 100%. I do not believe that anybody has ever said that 100% of the Tea Party is racist.
    .
    It has been said that even though Rand Paul seems to be very anti-racist himself, the policies he expressed to Rachel Maddow would, also, please racists since the end result would be some businesses forbidding blacks and others from being clients… etc, etc when Rand Paul was exclusively interested in that concept because he was opposed to the means of opposing racism (government protection from discrimination).
    .
    Second, the part about the Tea Party being truly independent and grass roots has not been proven and, therefore, the media allegation that it is not grass roots has not been disproven.
    .
    Third, the idea that the Tea Party is smaller and has less of an impact on Republican primaries as was originally thought has been proven to be true.
    .
    Fourth, the concept that any significant portion of the Tea Party being Democrats and that the Tea Party would play any role in Democratic Primaries has been proven false. The Tea Party is conservative and overwhelmingly Republican.
    .
    Fifth, the concept of the Tea Party being a significant force in general election causing a large sweep for Republicans has not been proven nor disproven since the elections have not taken place.
    .
    For the most part, I do not believe that the Tea Party has gotten too bad of a rap from the media. Maybe for those with bad ADD who can not listen from one sentence to another hears that some members of the Tea Party are racist to the explanation that the Tea Party is nothing like the KKK in the next sentence may be confused. I wouldn’t be too concerned since the easily confused ADD types who are off their medication are, more often than any other political group, members of the Tea Party already from what I have seen in The Swamp.
    .
    Two thirds, for example, gets confused when you write more than three sentences.
    .
    Dr. Earl can not tell the difference between me and Apr – which is a little bit like confusing a New York groom from the California mother of the bride considering our biographical differences. He might well have unmediated ADD.

  • freeinpa

    Ah Rev Jim: when you have no argument to defend your idiotic indefensible liberal positions you go right to name calling with nothing else.

    But maybe you can use you vast family background in engineering and you wealth of car experience (failed taxi driver and failed used car salesman) and help Obama build a Corolla instead of a $41,000 car that you can go a full 3 blocks before having to plug into a wall. Just what every US consumer wants in their car.

  • freeinpa

    Rev Jim another tirade that just reads blah blah blah!

    The statement below proves you are either delusional or a 5 star idiot

    For the most part, I do not believe that the Tea Party has gotten too bad of a rap from the media.

  • shepherdwong

    …but nor do I think they should all be written off as angry, xenophobic, know-nothings.
    .
    Agreed, it would be a mistake to write them off. They may well be deciding our next government.

  • kbanginmotown

    Have fun, sacred. Do they have fried cheese curds in Southern Ohio?

  • mycophile

    when you have no argument to defend your idiotic indefensible liberal positions you go right to name calling with nothing else

    Not a true statement
    .
    But there is a valid point embodied in it. The target of that critique does often include name-calling, in addition to presenting arguments of varying degrees of efficacy.
    .
    Yet charges of “name-calling” are hard to hear from someone who also throws in name-calling in a non-significant frequency.

    “you are either delusional or a 5 star idiot”

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Ah Rev Jim: ”
    .
    An annoying insult.
    “..when you have no argument to defend your idiotic indefensible.. positions you go right to name calling with nothing else…”
    .
    That would be what you do.
    .
    “But maybe you can use you vast family background in engineering…”
    .
    I told you that my late father designed cargo ships for 34 years and won awards from the Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers.
    .
    First, just as I will not train my son in Economics and International Relations, I never studied engineering.
    .
    Second, ships are a little bit different than cars. If you would like to drive your car into the water to see how good it works as a ship to understand this, please feel free to go ahead.
    .
    BTW: you do know that Commercial Real Estate in Manhattan pays for more than New Car sales such that leaving car sales was a good thing and an achievement?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “For the most part, I do not believe that the Tea Party has gotten too bad of a rap from the media.”
    .
    Well, the media presents the Tea Party consisting mostly of people who have no idea what they are talking about. Seeing the wingnuts here like you who say they are members of the Tea Party, I would say that they bent over backwards to put you all in a very good light.

  • maurice2u

    “In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a Congress.” ~ John Adams
    .
    “It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their own selfish purposes.” ~ Andrew Jackson
    .
    Despite four thousand years of written history detailing the ill results of our nature, we are still an emotion driven, intellectually lazy people who’s primary concern remains “what’s in it for me?” ~ Maurice2u

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    I’m hoping the Dems keep both chambers for only one reason— if the Republicans take either house, the gov’t. will be shut down and we will have 2 years of investigations and hearings into Obama’s administration. It will be worst than all of the “Clinton-gates”.

  • freeinpa

    First, just as I will not train my son in Economics and International Relations, I never studied engineering.
    .=
    I think as a society as whole benefits from both of the above.
    ==
    .
    BTW: you do know that Commercial Real Estate in Manhattan pays for more than New Car sales such that leaving car sales was a good thing and an achievement?
    =
    You know for someone who reviles the wealthy and talk about how poorly they treat people you spend an awful lot of your time trying to be one or seem like one.

  • freeinpa

    The bright side is the deficit won’t go up and maybe the Democrats may finally realize that the kangaroo courts they held for the last couple of years for the auto execs, Wall St., Banks, Insurance cos, drug companies, Sheriff of AZ etc should not have been used to score blatant political points.

    They were under the Carville-led impression that Conservatives would be out of power for 40 years and decided they could run roughshod over anybody. Surprise!!!

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “You know for someone who reviles the wealthy and talk about how poorly they treat people you spend an awful lot of your time trying to be one or seem like one.”
    .
    Wow, you’ve really been gulping down that sour mash tonight, I guess.
    .
    “You know for someone who reviles the wealthy…”
    .
    Who the duck are you talking about?
    .
    Maybe you meant to say this:
    .
    “You know for someone who reviles the right wing of the United States and talk about how poorly they treat people you spend an awful lot of your time trying to be a well off liberal like the ones you meet in NYC or seem like a well off liberal.”
    .
    That isn’t very clear. Let me rewrite that so it is clearer.
    .
    “You know you are somebody who reviles the right wing of the United States and talk about how poorly they treat people. You spend an awful lot of your time trying to be a well off liberal like the ones you meet in NYC or seem like a well off liberal.”
    .
    Now that makes sense.
    .
    For example, a liberal owner of a chain of restaurants would love it if the minimum wage goes up. It is it does, he can pay his lowest paid workers more, pass on the cost to the consumers and not lose out business to competition. If he raises wages by himself, he will have to go without profits or have empty restaurants.
    .
    Although I have nothing to do with restaurants myself, this is how I am and wish to be: a man who wants to make use of opportunities and, unlike the extreme right wing of the United States, not slam the door shut behind me for the next guy who wants to climb the latter of success.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “The bright side is the deficit won’t go up and maybe the Democrats may finally realize that the kangaroo courts they held for the last couple of years for the auto execs, Wall St., Banks, Insurance cos, drug companies, Sheriff of AZ etc should not have been used to score blatant political points.”
    .
    What?
    .
    “”The bright side is the deficit won’t go up …”
    .
    Look at who spent the money and try that again as, “Another sad thing is the deficit will skyrocket…”
    .
    “…the Democrats may finally realize that the kangaroo courts they held for the last couple of years for the auto execs, Wall St., Banks, Insurance cos, drug companies, Sheriff of AZ etc should not have been used to score blatant political points.”
    .
    Democrats put auto executives Wall Street executives, Bank Executives and the Sheriff in Arizona in Jail?
    .
    No.
    .
    Did they, themselves, issue fines or punishments?
    .
    No.
    .
    They questioned the judgment of these people.
    .
    “…should not have been used to score blatant political points.”
    .
    They gained from this?
    .
    No, they lost valuable campaign contributions which can win elections and used it to write financial reform.
    .
    “”Another sad thing is the deficit will skyrocket and maybe the Democrats may finally realize questioning the judgment last couple of years for the auto execs, Wall St., Banks, Insurance cos, drug companies, Sheriff of AZ etc should not have been used since it cost them so much in campaign contributions.”
    .
    Now that makes sense!

  • uniquelychristianthinker

    Thanks to all for your thoughtful and open comments. they are greatly appreciated. Perhaps another topic at another time will allow me the opportunity to guess at some of the reasons that voters on the right find it so easy to swallow Death-panels for Granny, canceling Christmas, Gay Agendas etc. As far flung as these things may seem to you, there are precedents which render them believable.
    Thanks again for offering enlightenment.

  • 3xfire3

    uniquely,
    .
    Good Post.
    .
    Please disregard the children of the Left. They are becoming very cranky as the election defeat they see coming is getting closer and closer.
    .
    They love to swear, call names, use personal attacks, and demonize anyone who doesn’t share their perverted beliefs. Anyone who doesn’t agree with them is a racist, homophobe, anti-religion [that a real joke] or just plain evil.
    .
    Keep posting the truth and don’t let them bully you. You are right and they are wrong.

  • 3xfire3

    Alex,
    .
    “The polls go up and down like a yo-yo.”
    .
    Wishful thinking. They don’t go up and down like a yo-yo.
    .
    You would have to be a yo-yo to think that. Polls by major organization are highly accurate and if you want an average you can go to “Real Clear Politics”.
    .
    Now go back to sleep and try to continue your dream but remember it is only a dream.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “You would have to be a yo-yo to think that. Polls by major organization are highly accurate and if you want an average you can go to “Real Clear Politics”.
    .
    Now go back to sleep and try to continue your dream but remember it is only a dream.”
    .
    Don’t worry Alex.
    .
    This man is just Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hide.
    .
    His next post will be about how mean both sides are to each other and he will not even notice that he is the same person who posts obnoxious things.
    .
    If he kept track of anything except the useless generic ballot, he would know that the odds are more than 50/50 that Democrats keep both houses – even if by slim margins.
    .
    Sometimes there are personalities with multiple handles. This is a man with one handle but multiple personalities.
    .
    Unfortunately all of his personalities are warped right wingers.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “They love to swear, call names, use personal attacks, and demonize anyone who doesn’t share their perverted beliefs. Anyone who doesn’t agree with them is a racist, homophobe, anti-religion [that a real joke] or just plain evil.”
    .
    Wow!
    .
    Talk about projecting!
    .
    Except racist or homophobe you just described what I face dealing with Freeinpa, Rusty, Earl and you.
    .
    “… their perverted beliefs.”
    .
    Perverted?
    .
    Keynesian Economics – the norm consisting of 80% of all Phd Economists, following the consensus of climatologists over 85% in accord that global warming is caused by the release of greenhouse gasses due to human activity, the First amendment applies to Muslims as well as everybody else are your concepts of “perverted”?
    .
    As for racists, the INDIVIDUALS holding signs of a monkey with the word “Obama” under it as well other very racially offensive things while at Tea Party rallies are racist. The individuals who do not shout down their fellow Tea Party members for carrying such signs are tolerant of racism and an accessory after the fact. From as you describe yourself, you are not at the events near these signs and have not had a chance to shout down those who wave such signs but refuse to admit that those people really walk around with such signs. You are in denial of racism existing in the Tea Party. These are all different things.
    .
    I, myself, have never called you homophobic since I can see no difference between the stand of civil unions and gay marriage and am not particularly concerned with the issue.
    .
    You, do, however, believe that pro-labor, pro-union, anti-war, pro-reparations Martin Luther King Jr would support anti-labor, anti-union, anti-environmentalist, anti-reparation Glenn Beck and this is not at all racist, but just plain delusional.
    .
    Then you have the nerve to call fact based opinions such as the majority of us here as “perverted”.
    .
    “anti-religion”?
    .
    Nobody ever called Sarah Palin the Anti-Christ.
    .
    Your people like to call Obama the Anti-Christ.
    .
    Nobody ever accused Sarah Palin, the far right heroine of the day of not really being Christian.
    .
    Obama get accused of lying about being a Christian and being a secret Muslim.
    .
    Not too concerned who prays to what or whom, myself your cohorts here accuse Obama of being anti-Christian and, for no known reason, a liar.
    .
    I strongly dislike it when you call people liars for no reason at all other than to fuel unreasonable and, if your will, perverted ideas of economics, history, the environment and the constitution.

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