Egypt’s Mubarak, Israel, and Obama

U.S. State Department photo

One fascinating subplot of the Middle East peace talks in Washington this week is the role of Egyptian president/dictator Hosni Mubarak. The 82-year old Mubarak, who has long governed Egypt with an iron fist–but has served as a useful strategic partner for America–is very old, visibly frail, and possibly cancer-ridden. For many months he has been grooming his westernized son, Gamal, for a smooth succession into the presidency, and the fact that Gamal has joined his father in Washington this week was clearly about something more than tourism. (I’d love to know how engaged Gamal may be in the Israeli-Palestinian talks, particularly given that his father’s lucidity is suspect nowadays.)

More substantively, while the Mubarak regime may be grossly repressive and anti-democratic, one thing you can say for Hosni and son is that they sing a quite reasonable tune about Israel and the peace process. They loathe Hamas (albeit for selfish reasons: Hamas despises the Egyptian regime for its good relations with Israel), and Hosni’s vision of the peace process as explained in the New York Times op-ed page this week was quite admirable for a leader whose population is virulently anti-Israel. Of course, the Mubaraks have an incentive to play along with Obama, because by all accounts Egypt is terrified by the rise of Iran and is very keen on working with America to blunt Persian influence in the region.

And don’t think that’s not extremely important to the Obama White House. You’ll recall that when Obama delivered his address to the Muslim world from Cairo last summer, he largely soft-pedaled the question of human rights and democracy there–an issue George W. Bush tried to emphasize briefly, before concluding it was more trouble than it was worth. But that’s a change in worldview for Obama. Writing about Obama and Iraq this week, I went back and read his famous 2002 speech against the war, which included this passage:

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells.

Of course, those words were spoken in 2002, back when America could better afford to talk trash about the Saudis and Egyptians. Now that he’s president, dueling with Iran and trying to restore America’s strategic position, Obama clearly believes that so-called “moderate” Middle Eastern regimes are too important to be hectored in such terms. Enough so that the Carnegie Endowment’s Robert Kagan warns that Gamal’s attendance in Washington this week will be derided on the Egyptian street and elsewhere in the Arab world as “as the US giving its blessing to this latest chapter in Egypt’s long history of dictatorship.” But that’s just fine with Hosni and Gamal Mubarak.

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  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Let’s fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Israelis, stop oppressing their own second-class citizens and neighbors, and suppressing dialogue, and tolerating illegality and inequality, and mismanaging their society so that their youth grow up without understanding, without humanity, without humility, the ready recruits of extremist movements, such as Likud.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    One of the things you have to give up when you become a pragmatic, moderate, is any sense of morality or social justice.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    I can’t think of anything more useless than trying to bring peace to that part of the world, especially when the country is in economic crisis.

  • m0mentom0ri

    “Egypt is terrified by the rise of Iran and is very keen on working with America to blunt Persian influence in the region.”
    .
    Does anyone know how much taxpayer money this loosely translates to?

  • newfreedomblog

    Reminds me of 1976 or there abouts and Jimmy Carter. I suppose instead of Lincoln, Obama is now patterning himself after Carter.
    .
    We are all royally screwed now!!
    .
    Up next, Gas Lines at your favorite local Gas Station!!

  • greuven

    Exiled, once again you show the one sided view you hold. You completely ignore the oppressive regime of Egypt, which was the sole focus of this post, while focusing all of your attention on the (admittedly imperfect) democracy of Israel. Doubly standard, anyone?

  • allthingsinaname

    I can’t think of anything more useless than your statement, with the exception of this one but, God only knows it had to be said.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    I predict they will get down to the right of return, which Israel will refuse and then the whole thing will fall apart, like it does, decade after decade.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Israel, a democracy? Ha! Believe in your facade fairytale, Grueven, whatever helps you sleep at night justifying the immoral conquest of another people’s land. I don’t, by any stretch of the imagination, support oppressive regimes such as Egypt, Iran, or Saudi Arabia. But at least their sins are kept to themselves, they piss on their own people. Israel takes it’s morbid addiction to a whole new level by inflicting massive suffering on a largely defenseless people. You should read “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” by Israeli historian and University of Haifa professer, Ilan Pappe.

  • nflfoghorn

    Carter did what many thought was impossible – bring Israel and Egypt together and hammered out a peace deal that lasts to this day. Only you could think of something rancid about that.

  • allthingsinaname

    Can a Palestinian even be a citizen in Israel?

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    There are a great many Arab/Palestinian citizens in Israel. But, they are, by nearly all accounts, second-class. They are often harassed and approached by IDF and Israeli police, they must endure near constant rhetoric coming from Likudniks in support of their “transfer” out of Israel, they deal with overwhelming racism in public schools and, though to a lesser extent, society at large.

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/125745

    http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=17740

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/poll-half-of-israeli-high-schoolers-oppose-equal-rights-for-arabs-1.264564

  • stuartzechman

    The 82-year old Mubarak, who has long governed Egypt with an iron fist…
    .
    the Mubarak regime may be grossly repressive and anti-democratic
    .
    Well, that pretty much says it all!
    .
    So, when do we invade?

  • nflfoghorn

    HA!
    It’s lost on a bunch of people (Blush and Dick especially) that one country’s version of democracy, let alone any form of government, may not look or act like ours.

  • allthingsinaname

    Hard to write with sarcasm sometimes.

  • allthingsinaname

    Not yet not enough proof of WMD. Don’t want to make that mistake again!

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    I should have picked up on that one, sorry.

  • allthingsinaname

    It is ok. I enjoyed the links

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    Any particular reason?

  • shepherdwong

    I think what you meant to say is that it’s useless for us to try to bring peace to that part of the world and that’s because we can’t, since we can never be seen as an honest broker as long as Israeli Zionism determines our actions there. Egyptian efforts at peace-building are another matter.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    Yes I was referring to the US effort and the lack of objectivity there but I also think the whole exercise is one of futility. There is too much hatred on both sides and the same old impenetrable issues, like the right of return, always prevent a deal from being made. Israel has already taken it off the table.

  • shepherdwong

    I actually think they had a reasonable chance to work out the right-of-return issue. The outright and ever-more-permanent theft of land designated for a Palestinian state is what has destroyed any present possibility for peace.

  • armygrunt

    Israel, a leper among nations, must be stopped. Israeli’s should hurry up and make peace with the Arabs before the declining U.S. influence turns the tables on them. Zionists are an abomination to mankind, a cancer that has slowly sickened our beloved America and its values. Exiled-at-home, I’m sorry for your people’s suffering. May God cure us all of the evils of Israel.

  • fhmadvocat

    The quest for mideast peace is elusive because everyone believes themselves to be the victim and only wants to address their own grievance. Peace is possible, if each side is willing to understand where the other party is coming from and takes the time to comprehend the psychological makeup which forms the policial persona (or paranoia) of each party. For the Israelis the big issue is security. Israel is such a small place and is surrounded (by what they perceive) by a hostile Arab world. For peace to work, Israel needs some sense of security and that their neighbors don’t seek to drive them into the sea. In reality, much of that has already been achieved. Israel is at peace with Egypt and Jordan which covers about 80% of its borders. For the Palestian, it is hope and a dream of a state. That can be achieved, but Israel is going to have to give a little and forgive a lot.

    As far as the big issues. Right of return? At first glance, it appears to be the hardest issue, but in reality it can be finessed. Most Palestinians don’t want to return to the former homes if it means they would be Israeli citizens. They would prefer to live in the West Bank (or elsewhere). Israel could pay them compensation and agree to give aid to the Palestinian authority to resettle them on the West Bank. Israeli settlements? Israel would get to keep the settlements along the Green line and would exchange an equal amount of Israeli land in return. Jerusalem? Probably the hardest issue. Not to over simplify, but in kindergarten, we all learned to share. Create a borough system like they have in New York City. Israel and Palestine would share jointly the City of Jerusalem with some borough part of the Palestinian capital and the rest part of the Israeli capital. Together they could teach the world a new concept of peace.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    shepherdwong I hadn’t heard there was any moment on the right of return. In fact, my impression is the new PM outright rejects the return of any people, let alone 100,000 or 250,000, or whatever the number was when Clinton tried to solve this problem. He has also removed East Jerusalem as the capital, from the equation, from what I can see.

  • shepherdwong

    No, I didn’t mean to suggest that Israel would compromise on right of return – never going to happen. I meant that I thought they could reach a deal where something else (e.g., a Gaza-West Bank transit corridor of some kind) could be traded for it since it isn’t necessary to create a viable Palestinian state. Mostly speculation on my part, I admit.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    “No, I didn’t mean to suggest that Israel would compromise on right of return – never going to happen.”
    .
    Which is precisely why this exercise is a combination of
    Sisyphus and Don Quixote. It also takes Obama away from the issue that is killing him at the moment.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Armygrunt,
    Not my people, actually. I’m just a concerned observer. I’ve visited Israel and Palestine, and I do have several Arab relatives, though. But, I appreciate the sentiments. It is beyond reprehensible that the wholesale annexation of an innocent people’s land has been allowed to endure for over 60 years. Granted, by now, the Palestinians are far from innocent -take the murder of four settlers a few nights ago, for example- but, there is an underlying cause to Palestinian rage: occupation. Just as every other occupied people, the Palestinians resist. And what do they have to resist with? Stones? Homemade rockets? AKs? Bombs? Sure, things have gotten messy and at times, wildly and immorally excessive, e.g. suicide bombs, random killings, yet, upon deep contemplation, it is difficult to see myself pursuing any other path were I living under the same conditions, with the same experiences and trauma as the Palestinians…

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    These suggestions are so simple and reasonable that it would never happen.

  • mycophile

    we would be lucky if there was only one person who could think of something rancid about that.

  • mycophile

    There MAY be no fixing the mess our country and the world have gotten into.
    .
    But what else is a person of conscience to do but continue to live every day trying to?

  • allthingsinaname

    Derek,

    because I think you are a fool, a sullen one at that. I think that anyone who gives up on peace is a fool. I think that you are the one who is anti war yet you make a stupid, yes stupid statement. Without peace there, there can be no peace anywhere.
    .
    You piss and moan and tell you will not vote, then you piss and moan about war and then make your statement about bringing peace to that part of the world.
    Seems to me that you want everyone to deliver to you what you do not want to fight, or make an effort for.
    .
    Just piss and moan. Man I pass on your attitude.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    You are the one who is always pissing and moaning, especially toward those who are not value free, partisan hacks, like you. A democrat could start sacrificing children on TV and you would aim your arsenal of boring and repetitive insults at any liberal who came along and said, that’s not right. Then you would give them your lecture on not wasting their vote.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    By the way allthingsinana… one of the proofs that you are a real idiot is your total reliance on personal insult to make whatever point it is you think you are making. That puts you at the same level of the trolls.

  • allthingsinaname

    Oh Derek, Like anyone here is above name calling. You asked I told you. You can take it or leave it.
    .
    Where did babies come into the equation. Want to talk about sacrificing babies, one only need to look at the wanton destruction of the unborn in this country. There is progress for you.
    .
    I use your words against you Derek. Show me where you get your baby crack.
    .
    You said you wouldn’t vote, you said that war was wrong, then you said ;
    .

    “I can’t think of anything more useless than trying to bring peace to that part of the world, especially when the country is in economic crisis.”

    .
    Then you go on about centrist and moderates Blah, Blah and say I am one. The you make this comment

    .”One of the things you have to give up when you become a pragmatic, moderate, is any sense of morality or social justice.”
    .
    Tell me about the babies Derek and tell me where I haven’t been out spoken about Social Justice.
    .
    You say that if I do not agree with you I must be immoral? Sounds a bit like name calling to me Derek.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    “Where did babies come into the equation.”
    .
    It was a metaphor used to draw a comparison. The story was made up, as one possible future, using an analogy that fits a pattern. What is that pattern? Your pattern of total hackery. It doesn’t matter what the party does, I owe my vote to them, is the basic hack argument. They don’t have to do anything to win my vote. I shouldn’t mind if the only people in the party they are willing to compromise with are in Red states.
    .

  • allthingsinaname

    A metaphor? An analogy? A possible future? That fits a Pattern? That pattern is hackery? I call your thinking a quackery.
    .
    No you don’t owe your vote to the party but I will tell you if you do not vote for the person who at least tends in your direction you will never get the person you want. You get the opposite Derek.
    .
    People in power tend to stay there Derek, I do not know of any other legal means of getting them out of power. There is not a Dem, Rep, Ind. Shinning Knight that is going come riding in on a white horse to save us.
    .
    Perfection is unattainable. One needs to just look at you and me to figure that out.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    When did I ever call for perfection? I’ve been talking about stuff I learned in first year economics, none of which is considered socialist. If I was a socialist I would be talking about the dictatorship of the proletariat and the nationalization of all industry, guided by a five year plan. The public option was a putrid compromise and even it was too much for the rednecks in the party. Did you notice the job report today? Did you see the numbers for youth, blacks and Hispanics? Are you really surprised they probably won’t be voting this time around?

  • allthingsinaname

    Where and, when, in the hell did I call you a Socialist?
    .
    Encourage them to stay home, That is the ticket!

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