Watch Franklin Graham Hypothesize President Obama’s Christianity

Ana Marie Cox you are not Michael Scherer. Even she wouldn’t take snark to the level you have today.
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“You can be born a Muslim. You can be born a Jew. But, you cannot be born a Christian until you have asked Jesus Christ to absolve you of all of your sins”
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Pretty much says it all.
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Since birth records of Obama were so hard to come by, perhaps a batismal certificate can be the proof.
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Just saying.
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(Just kidding)

I guess I was never a Christian. Being Catholic, I never formally professed my faith, except when I was confirmed. Not the same. I was designated as a Christian when I was baptized as a baby. Saving me from that awful void, Limbo. Do you see how stupid this is?
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By the way, I can produce a baptism certificate. That does not mean I am a Christian. I was excommunicated sometime ago for breaking dogma.
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Besides, most evangelicals do not believe Catholics are really Christians. Read some of Hagee’s and Dobson’s pronouncements. Papists you know.
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Stupid, stupid, stupid.
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However, the traditional media enables this blather by interviewing these witch doctors and giving them credence. Remember when Rick Warren was allowed to televise an interview during the campaign questioning the faith of Obama and McCain?
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Stupid, stupid, stupid.

I don’t know who I’m more disgusted with: Franklin Graham or CNN.

Why on earth would they have Franklin Graham, who has deep ties (unlike his father who after getting burned after his coziness with Nixon backed off politics) far-right Republicans.

I’m appalled at how low CNN has sunk. There is no 24-hour news cable network for news junkies. All CNN provides is politcal commentary. You can only rely on CNN for facts when it is covering non-American catastrophes like the Haitian earthquake. In those instances they can still do a good job of reporting the facts on the ground.

I’ve always understood the separation of church and state. I’m finally starting to understand the separation of church and sense.

“Watch Franklin Graham Hypothesize President Obama’s Christianity”
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Why?

“However, the traditional media enables this blather by interviewing these witch doctors and giving them credence.”
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That’s the key, isn’t it?
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You show a clip of the son of a respected religious leader spouting disinformation on CNN with all the usual rigor of the he-said-she-said media, then you wonder why people believe in disinformation.
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It’s because you, Mr Scherer, and your ilk, continue to entertain those theories and continue to treat the theorizers as having legitimacy. You’re directly responsible for propagating these myths.
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Imagine if you gave airtime to a conspiracist whose claim was the CIA covered up visits by extraterrestrials. Every day you have this guy on, with only the most passive of challenges (don’t want to appear to have a pro-extraterrestrial bias!). Would you be all that surprised if, after months of this, a substantial percentage of folks (say, about 2 in 10) believe the CIA was covering up visits by extraterrestrials?
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You reap what you sow.

Michael Scherer:
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Isn’t this episode simply more evidence of the establishment press corps’ abdication of the task of pro-actively debunking disinformation campaigns?
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Isn’t it the press corps’ job anymore to report in a timely fashion on what various sources are claiming, with the goal of setting the record straight –however many times the claims are repeated, if necessary?
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Isn’t it the mission of journalism to counter partisan, ideological or just plain weird propaganda, so that the public is well-informed…
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…instead of the state we’re in now?

Isn’t it strange that they never mention their own enabling role in the public’s misperceptions about politics when discussing the public’s misperceptions about politics? Go figure.

“By the way, I can produce a baptism certificate. That does not mean I am a Christian. I was excommunicated sometime ago for breaking dogma.”

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Now that is the SHOCKER of the week!!

Are you being serious stuart? You are asking this of a former, Journolister.
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They themselves spread as much of the crap we have out in the media as much as people in general do themselves.
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Believeing that our media today will report truthfully or as close to the truth as humanly possible is no longer an ethical standard for our media types. I am convinced of it. They instead go for whatever gets the most hits on their websites or sells the most magazines, ala grocery store checkout line tabloids.
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Perhaps when honor and integrity is finally restored to this country, then and only then will you ever jounalism’s mission to counter partisan, ideological or just plain weird propaganda so the public at large is well informed.

I’m so disgusted with Graham, CNN/John King – (& all of the media) and the Right Wing Republican smear machine that I can hardly stand it.

They are all just a total disgrace.

Before John King’s show was on, I saw on twitter that he was having Franklin Graham on to “discuss” this issue. I knew exactly what kind of crap that man would spew. Why did CNN invite him on?

Graham is morally repugnant.

Certainly reminds me of this:

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

Mohandas Gandhi

kristiia: Thanks for sharing the Gandhi quote.

For those on the reactionary right who feel they must judge other’s morality, can I tell you I think you have no idea what morality means. Calling people whores, assuming the extent of their morality is hardly Christian. It is Christianist and Dominonist but not Christ like.

I add my thanks, kristiia.

I can’t remember the exact wordage but Kurt Vonegut admired Jesus (though he wasn’t a Christian) and wondered why Christians didn’t want to post the Beatitudes instead of the Ten Commandments at public places.

I guess that whole meek and poor thing really turns off the rightwingers.

MS, you gave us a couple of great “1000 Words”. Is there a chance you could throw us another bone? After the last few days of arguing, we might just tear it to shreds.

News is something like this MS, it involves some research and some facts, not what people are saying, that is gossip.
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From TPM
.The controversy over the Islamic Center in lower Manhattan has brought up questions about the fate of a church that was destroyed in the Sept. 11 attacks.

St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church was a small building that was crushed by the collapse of the South Tower when the World Trade Center was attacked. Then-Governor George Pataki committed in 2001 to making sure that a rebuilt church was part of the planning, and Mayor Bloomberg agreed after he took office. With the state committed to help rebuild the church, a new building six times the size of the original location was proposed nearby. In March 2009, the offer on the table was that the church would directly receive $20-million in public funds, and, since the church would be built above a bomb screening area of the parking structure for the rebuilt towers, the New York-New Jersey Port Authority agreed to pay for a $40-million blast proof platform and foundation for the church.

Specific agreements for the state to help rebuild the church date back to 2004 and former Gov. George Pataki, who told Fox News this week that he doesn’t understand why the Port Authority “put roadblocks” in the way of the church’s reconstruction. “It’s not the right thing to do,” he said.

The church lost out on its $60 million deal when both sides failed to come to final terms and the Port Authority ended its talks in March 2009, as the New York Times reported at the time.

But Father Mark Arey of the Greek Archdiocese of America told a news station that the they haven’t heard anything since the Port Authority took the deal off the table in August 2009. That was after the church didn’t accept the deal because it wanted to negotiate terms of domain and other issues.

“It’s a little cynical, after 8 years of negotiations and promises from political leaders to say: go back to where you were,” Father Arey said. “We thought we were a partner down there with everyone else… St Nicholas is more than a church. Rebuilding it is important for the soul of our city and soul of our country.”

The proposed new address of 130 Liberty St. would be just 144 feet away from the old location of 155 Cedar St., according to Google maps and a New York Times graphic of the location.

The man in charge of the church, Father John Romas, was temporarily assigned to St. Constantine and Helen Greek Orthodox Cathedral. A woman there said he was in Greece until early next month.

Stephen Sigmund, a spokesman for the Port Authority, sent TPMMuckraker this statement:

“St. Nicholas Orthodox Church has always had and will continue to have the right to rebuild on its original location. The question was whether public money would be spent to build a much larger church at a separate location on the site and ensuring that construction wouldn’t delay the World Trade Center further.

On that question, we worked for many years to reach an agreement and offered up to 60 million dollars of public money to build that much larger new church.

After reaching what we believed was an agreement in 2008, representatives of the church wanted even more public commitments, including unacceptable approvals on the design of the Vehicle Security Center that threatened to further delay the construction on the World Trade Center and the potential for another $20 million of public funds.

In 2009, we made our final offer, which again included up to $60 million in public money and told St. Nicholas Orthodox Church that the World Trade Center could not be delayed over this issue. They rejected that offer.

St. Nicholas Church retains the right to build on its original location and work could begin in 2013 in sequence with the completion of the Vehicle Security Center, just as it would have on the larger site.”

Are there any photos of “touchdown Jesus” on fire. I’m working midnights and feeling a little sacriligious.

CNN is still on?
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Last I heard from them they were discussing the Department of Jihad

Last night, on NBC Nightly News, Brian Williams – in reporting the poll results – made clear that Obama is a Christian, not a Muslim, and he was in fact born in the United States. Then he talked with Chuck Todd about why so many people don’t believe this.

There are members of the MSM out there debunking the untruths, but not all of us who prefer the internet for news are out there listening to them.

I think your comment is unnecessarily sweeping, and you’re usually more careful than that.

Oh why not. We don’t have anything important to talk about anyway.

…back in ’03?

Oh – but I should add, Stuart, that I too am disgusted by those who have abdicated their responsibility to correct the record when they know perfectly well that they’ve given air time to lies.
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And there are particular people they refuse to debunk. Graham is one, Palin another. They will seldom take on Limbaugh.
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But kudos also go to Anderson Cooper for (fruitlessly) demanding some kind of proof from Representative Terror Babies about his silly claims that American born babies are going to come back in 30 years to attack us.

Leslie keeping it smart, as always.
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http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/03/keepn_it_foxy.php

I thought it was pretty clear from this post that I was mocking the temerity of Graham’s description of Obama’s Christianity, which strikes me as rather out of bounds.

The issue is that the American mind has been so dulled by news only requiring 3 minute segments and complex ideas in platitudes. The Republican capability of reducing a complex topic to a single 8 word sentence which ends up being about the interest span of most people. And we expect politicians to be able to explain fixing Social Security or other major activities when eyes glaze over on the 2nd sentence. The “twitterization” of the American mind coupled with creating something to hate defines the entire Republican agenda for America.

Thanks so much for responding to commentary, Michael Scherer, it is greatly appreciated.

I didn’t know religion was genetic and passed by a seed like eye color. In that case since Christ was born a Jew that pretty much wipes out Christianity and puts Graham out of a job.

We are bloggers MS; we mock, snark, cuss, and BS, you on the other hand are supposed to be the professional and report facts. All you have done is Graham space he doesn’t deserve.
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If you don’t agree with him, say so, clearly.
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Thanks for taking my rant.

As a tolerant person, I have no objection to the fact that Obama is a faithful Muslim. I’m so tolerant that I don’t even have any objection to the fact that Obama is a loyal, committed citizen of Kenya (or is it Indonesia?). My objection to Obama rests entirely on the fact that Obama seeks the complete destruction of the United States of America.

Franklin Graham was not born a Christian because of his father’s (Billy Graham) beliefs and President Obama was not born a Muslim because of his father’s beliefs. According to God’s Word, both men were born sinners because of Adam! All have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23)! Jesus Christ came to reconcile mankind to Himself. Franklin Graham of all people should know this. Both Franklin Graham and President Obama had to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior to say that they are Christians according to the Word of God. Franklin Graham’s theology is skewed or else he has a deeper “heart” issue going on (racism runs deep)! Franklin needs to get a Holy Ghost heart transplant! At the end of the day, Franklin God loves President Obama just as much as He loves you! Mr. Franklin needs to confess to God how he really feel about President Obama (God already knows), He will forgive him! You can’t continue to use scriptures to justify our own personal biases! Mr. Franklin will be much more effective in the ministry if he comes clean with the Lord. After all God alone knows our hearts and our motives and those deep secrets lurking within!

Oh, you are just too cute for words!

“I thought it was pretty clear from this post that I was mocking the temerity of Graham’s description of Obama’s Christianity…”
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Yes, your subtlety is a perfect counterpoint to Limbaugh, Palin, FOX and the rest of vast right-wing lie machine. I can hear the great unwashed masses getting smarter by the minute.

Franklin was busy counting money the day they taught that in Sunday school.

“I can hear the great unwashed masses getting smarter by the minute.”
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Your hearing is much better than mine.

Michael: Rather out of bounds? Why is he even being interviewed by the traditional media? If I say the moon is made of blue cheese, does that mean I should be afforded an interview on CNN? Keep enabling and soon the majority will believe religion is genetic.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.

sierra, good point. If only.

thankful4hisgrace – Shouldn’t ‘his’ in your username be capitalized. We would not want to offend the great spaghetti monster in the sky would we?

Jed Bartlett can teach the media and our politicians how you confront religious fanatics and hate talkers.
h/t America Blog

‘Why?’
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Well played, sir!

Franklin Graham was bormn a Christian because his father is a Christian, but later he found his true religion … Republicanism.

Michael,

You have to remember that some conservatives/Republicans actual think Stephen Colbert is one of them.

They may not get the mocking. They may just think you agree with them.

Why not post why this comment is so out of bounds instead? It certainly is. It is shockingly, jaw-droppingly inappropriate and out-of-bounds. I literally gasped when I heard it.

Well that whole, “[l]ove your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you,” was also pretty radical back then (and remains so a couple of thousand years of evolution later). So much so they changed his message from “this is how you should live to find God,” to “get baptized in my name and you’re good to go.” No wonder some of it’s acolytes get confused.

Franklin Graham is either a BS’er, which means he says stuff that comes out of his rear without knowing whether it’s true or false; or he is a liar. I assume the latter. Islam is a FAITH. So NO IT IS NOT PASSED ON BY FATHER OR MOTHER. It is very much lik Christianity, i.e. you can be Muslim if and only if you agree to the Unity of god and the prophethood of Mohammad. That’s it. And according to Islamic doctrine (I can bring references to the Hadith on this matter) young children are presumed Muslim in the sense that in case they die at a young age, the Islamic doctrine is clear: they go to heaven regardless of whom they’re born to.

I can speak with some authority on this as I was brought up as (and was a believing and practising) Muslim until I decided that religious faith is not something I can have.

Obama’s father left him when he was 2 years old. I am amazed how much relevance his father’s religion is given in this discourse.

Not to mention, if you pray as Jesus instructed his followers (Matthew 6) you really don’t have a need to build giant houses of worship or send all your cash to huckster televangelists.

I was thinking the same thing. But I think a lot of these die-hard Christians would like to forget Jesus’ heritage.

The Prophet Muhammad said, “No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist.” (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)

Islam is the religion of all Prophets, Adam to Muhammad. Children are not born out of any sin, original, inherited or derived. They are born on the religion of their nature, i.e., Islam.
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How is that for you Franklin?

I would have no problem if Obama were a Muslim. What difference would it make? Most Muslims are good, honest, hard working people. It is only a small of the Muslim community that is evil. Just like a small segment of the Christian faith is evil.

“…Obama rests entirely on the fact that Obama seeks the complete destruction of the United States of America.”
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Let me correct that for you:
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Obama’s campaign was won entirely on the fact that George W Bush had almost achieved the complete destruction of the United States of America.
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That’s accurate.

Franklin Graham is a fascinating case of the Oedipal complex. Not so much the sleeping with the mother part, but the conquering and killing the father part. He so obviously suffers from inadequacy under the long shadow of his father’s legacy that he’s overcompensating with the fire and brimstone. It’s clear he lacks the intellectual heft of his father (sorta like the Kristols, actually) so he turns to provocation and extremism instead.
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But I’m inadequate to properly analyze this creature. Do we have any Freudian analysts or psychotherapists on the Swamp? Please take a minute to give us some insight into Graham fils.
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(Does he even have much standing in the evangelical community? Or does he just get airtime based on his name?)

Hmmmm.
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A reference to Dr. Laura Schlessinger, PhD in Physiology?
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Great Link!
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You might not Dr. Laura if you are N-
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(And Howard Stern is the “shock jock” – at least he makes people laugh with his insanity.)

Thank you.
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Facts are always helpful but, for some reason, nearly absent in many political debates lately.

I passed by this remark earlier.
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I guess, since making up sht about people he never met, knows almost nothing about and has never heard anything immoral about, it is just fine for “Christian” Rusty, I hope you don’t mind if, from now on, I start claiming that you have intimate relations with your own mother, molest children and any other obviously morally offensive thing.
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I forgot how out of line you were.

That’s an awesome video!
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Thanks for the link!

I don’t care what religion (or lack thereof ) he claims to be. He should just make it known and practice it.
If he is disingenuous (lies) that is not OK for our President to do.

I loved the “ignorant tight a$$ club” comment.

Thats ok apr. I’m not a Christian either. My mother was long time athiest-turned agnostic-turned spiritualist. When she married her second husband, he insisted we all get baptized in the Catholic Church. When I was a kid, I used to drive the nuns crazy in CCD classes with innocent questions that I really wanted the answers to. “If God created Adam and Eve, where did everybody else come from”. “Excuse me, Sister, last week you said that Jesus was the one and only son of God, now you’re saying we are all children of God, how can that be?”
Needless to say, I barely made my first communion. When my mom and step dad divorced, I left the Catholic Church, a year before I was to be confirmed. But I had grown disillusioned with Catholicism and now that I’m pushing 50, I’m disillusioned with organized religion in general.

erieangel: I certainly had my questions. I took a theology class in college from a priest I greatly admired. At that time the Church taught that unless a person was baptized in the Church, they would never join God in heaven. Too bad for those pagans the missionaries never encountered. The answers to my questions on the unfairness of that concept were met with the usual, I must pray for grace and just believe.
Well, my grace was never granted. The church has since changed that tenet. But, the dogma of the Church is still too closed and intolerant. The idea of the Christian God was just too illogical and cruel.
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There were things about the Church I loved. I liked the ritual. I admired there attempts at fostering social justice in the 50s and 60s. The nuns were great teachers. When I transferred to public school, academically I was far advanced.
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I still wonder about the beginning of it all. Scientists can’t answer that question. But, an intrusive, judgemental God, isn’t the answer, I believe. Look at some of the hate spewed here over that theology.

Franklin has taken over Billy Graham’s ministry. After 9/11 he called Islam “wicked and evil. A religion of hatred and war.”
Supported Sudanese leader al-Bashir when he was indicted by the International Criminal Court for genocide. al-Bashir had allowed his missionary work in Sudan. What a trade off.

MS, subtlety, and respecting the intelligence of your audience are hereby banned from swampland, sorry. from now on, everything you don’t spell out precisely will be mentally filled in with all the worst things we can possibly imagine about you.
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Q: “Why not post why this comment is so out of bounds instead”
A: because its obnoxious to have the obvious pointed out to you.

um its a spiritual INVESTMENT kevin. god rewards that faith sevenfold. and what better investment manager can you find than someone who’s last name is Dollar???

Obama has discussed his faith multiple times and as far as I can tell goes to church which according to most peoples definition means he practices. You are being disingenuous and dishonest and honestly I’m not sure why I responded.

PS if my snark detector was off ignore this but I doubt it