What Does This Say About Us?

I’m actually surprised it’s that low. As John Rogers noted, the baseline for right-wing crazy is a few percentage points higher — 27%.
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http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/lunch-discussions-145-crazification.html

What it says about “us” is that we are not fooled by the constant stream of left wing propaganda being spewed by the partisan media. While the community organizer in chief Imam Obama may not attend daily prayers in a mosque, he certainly is playing for the other team. Look carefully at his policies programs and behaviour. Any time Islam is involved he takes their side. Perverse right wing fantasy Joe? I think not. Loads of evidence exists proves O is at the very least a muslim sympathizer.

“more than 30% believed Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11, if I remember correctly”

You remember correctly. Why do you suppose that was?

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“Even though no Iraqis were involved, and there is no proof Saddam was behind it, the attack on the World Trade Center provides Cpl Richardson and many others with the justification for invading Iraq.”

“There’s a picture of the World Trade Center hanging up by my bed and I keep one in my Kevlar [flak jacket]. Every time I feel sorry for these people I look at that. I think, ‘They hit us at home and, now, it’s our turn.’ I don’t want to say payback but, you know, it’s pretty much payback.”

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2010/04/07/payback/

“behaviour”?? That’s not how real Americans spell.

Sssh. Britcardo is playing dress-up again. “Look at me, mum! I’m an angry American, I am!”

“The levels of anti-Islamic bigotry in general are shocking, and depressing. This doesn’t bode well for the President or for the country.”

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Well it appears that the Journalisters or the new group of liberal lame stream media types, both opinion writers and journalists are now in cahoots to target anyone who is against the building of a mosque at ground zero as “bigots”. Simply by painting those individuals or groups as racists or bigots. Why am I not surprised with this long standing, Liberal / Democrat tactic?
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Rather than looking at the real objection that well over 70% of the people in this country give as the objection, liberals and democrats unite together to throw out their various race cards into the direction of anyone who would 1. question the validity of this mosque, 2. question the motive of this mosque, or 3. simply oppose this mosque on the grounds that building it is both insensitive to the families of 9/11 who were killed in the Muslim Terrorist attack against the United States of America.
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It is beginning to become very clear that the only thing Liberals and Democrats, like Joe Klein, can unite behind as a group is an allegation of racism or bigotry. They can only rile up their base of support with allegations of racism and bigotry allegations against those with whom they oppose. Isn’t this a form of bigotry and racism within itself? Isn’t this the old saying, the pot calling the kettle black?
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How many people who are against the building of the mosque have you spoken with Joe Klein? How many of them have you sat down with so that you can fully understand their objection to the building of this mosque? How many of these people you have spoken with, assuming you would even consider doing such a thing, have actual and proven track records on racist statements or bigotry?
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Do you and TIME.com believe that over 70% of the people in this country are racists and bigots? Or, is this just another cleverly designed way for those of you who would bury the truth so far as information is concerned in order to protect your dwindling group of Liberal believers?

OK Joe

You tell us then. What is President Obama? See your own Magazine, Time a little while ago:

God as Their Running Mate
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1659734,00.html

If 70% of the people were against gun ownership I wonder if the right would abandon the constitution based on the same “mob rule mantra” they have taken up now.

I think not.

There are at least two shocking things in that post, Joe. First, the fact that you point out where half the country don’t know that Obama is not a muslim. Yes, that’s shocking. But even more shocking – to me as a Brit – is the blithe acceptance of the amount of people who positively think he is a muslim.

This seems to be the conventional wisdom amongst commentators, right or left, that “30% or thereabouts can be counted on to believe any old perverse right-wing fantasy “. That’s just under 100 million people in allegedly the most sophisticated, prosperous and free country in the world. It is shocking to me that that is simply accepted.

Overall, this just demonstrates that – by and large – the public is uneducated, ill-informed and lazy; and that they don’t want to change.

Honestly, you guys don’t deserve Obama.

Confusing “Muslims” with “al-Qaeda”, and blaming the former for the crimes of the latter, is exactly what bigotry is. It’s that simple.

Maybe newfreedomblog thinks there were a billion plus Muslims on those two planes, that the gov’t has hidden, or who all evaporated upon impact?

When you used the phrase “About Us”, my first reaction was that you were referring to journalists. But then I remembered the amount of ink that’s been spilled around here dissing teachers as being overpaid and overpriveleged and I remebered that there’s plenty of Americans who actually VALUE ignorance. It’s easy to forget.

“What is President Obama?”. I believe the answer is in the question: President Obama is the f&*king President.

homer, as an American, I’d love to rebuke you (or should I say “refudiate” you?) but I can’t. I might quibble with the use of the phrase “by and large” but the numbers don’t lie.
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I do have an issue with two comments, one by you and one by Amy in her post. You wrote, “It is shocking to me that that is simply accepted.”
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It’s not accepted. It’s encouraged and nurtured by people in authority, in politics (remember how shocking it was when McCain finally talked down that wacko lady who said Obama was a Muslim at the town hall meeting?) and in the media (how many times has Fox News, among other outlets, allowed someone to say, “there are still doubts about Obama’s citizenship?). For many of these people, feeding this ignorance is how they make their living (and business is good).
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Amy wrote, “a year and half after Obama moved into the White House, Americans are far less certain about who he is than they were during the campaign.” That’s wrong. They’re very certain who he is. He’s what they’ve been told he is. I find it hard to blame the Obama administration for failing to convince people he’s not a foreigner, Muslim or Socialist.
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The most damning word in your post was “lazy” because it’s true. Given abundant resources and more freedom than virtually any people on earth, many Americans have settled into the lives of sloths, allowing their brains to rot in the process. In an era where it takes seconds to find information, many people swallow anything told to them and then spew it to others, infecting them as well. This comment section will soon offer some prime examples.
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If you’re depressed now, wait until November.

When l read posts that reveal how far we come in acceptance of a person`s beliefs, colour or creed, l am never surprised about how people vote. This way of bashing a person for making a decision based on what President Obama truly believed is the right course of action, ref the mosque debarcle, has now turned into a farce to say the least.

The more l read on line about the follow-up comments – present in the social media the more l can see the racist rearing its ugly head above the parapet of truth.

Does it really matter if he is a Muslim or not as to why his decision was made, l think not but if we want to make it right let all religions have a place of worship and maybe one day we will be able to bring peace into peoples life`s.

But as George Elerick said on Facebook and l agree we first need more sensitivity about what happened and other people who lost loved ones, first.

“What Does This Say About Us?”

It says almost nothing about us. It says quite a bit about them.

“The problem here is that so few people–less than half of all Americans–know that the President is not a Muslim.”

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In an effort to drive the number of the un-knowing or doubting Thomas’ down even further, here is a video montage of Obama in his own words. Why doubt or question when you can actually hear it from Obama’s own mouth.
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Enjoy!!
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Thanks Viriginia. When I say “accepted” my real issue was not with the bigots and fox news – that’s what they are for. But the fact that an enlightened journalist like Joe and a liberal poster like Kevin can simply brush aside the fact that 30% of the country you live is – essentially – crazy does get me I have to say. Not their fault in any way, it’s just now that it’s part of the furniture of the US.

In many many ways I love the US – it has historically given us the most progressive worldwide policies so I don’t want to harp too much about its negatives. But lazy I think is the apposite word.

kevin: win!

homer, just to state the obvious here: when people misidentify President Obama as a Muslim, it’s not just a case of confusion. They view being as a Muslim as a negative, they clearly view Muslims as second class citizens, not worthy of the same privileges as other Americans. The Cordoba Center controversy is a clear example of this. The concerns over how Muslim Congressmen would be sworn in and having an imam give a prayer on the floor of Congress were others.
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I know our right wing friends on this blog will now have a conniption but points like these are why there is clearly a racial undertone to the anger and hatred displayed toward President Obama. No other President has had his citizenship, religion or political beliefs smeared to this level. And there is only one obvious reason why.

You see Ladies and Gentlemen, anyone can hold a belief in more than one religion. They can even believe in multiple faiths, why would we even question Mr Obama’s beliefs to begin with?
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It would seem very obvious to me that someone who grew up in a home where they practiced not just one religion exclusively, would indeed hold beliefs in both faiths. It is also very possible that growing up in the home as Obama did, he would in his maturing phases, grasp onto not just one religion, but perhaps both Christianity and Islam. I would have much more respect for him if he just came out and said “I have affinity and belief in both Christian and the Muslim faiths. That actually would be much more believeable than what we are now exposed to by his handlers.
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People respect the truth in general. They can grasp the meaning of the truth so much more than they can lies. Lies tend to contradict themselves, and complicate things. Whereas when you stand in the fire of the truth, you shall never err.
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Do it for your country Mr Obama. Do it for your political party. Tell the truth. Let the American people know and understand who you really are.

Jackie Robinson had spectators throw things at him and fellow ballplayers spewing epithets.
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Obama will suffer the slings and arrows like any pioneer. “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.” –MLK

Well I totally agree that a lot of the criticism of Obama has its roots in racism or prejudice. Right wingers may have conniptions but that is the case. Here’s the thing: I suspect a similar dynamic happens on the far progressive side. That’s going to get my howls of derision for sure, but it does seem to me that Obama gets criticised for doing what all Presidents (liberal, right wing, etc.) have done for the past 200 years as a matter of course. I loved Bill Clinton when he was President and think he’s been a superb ex-President but it strikes me as funny that Obama gets so much grief for taking too long to overturn DADT compared to the person who actually signed it into law!

newfree, you are like the “Old Faithful” of blogging stupidity. You can be relied upon to spew out utter nonsense on a regular basis. You are a natural wonder of idiocy.

Rusty, how does it feel to know that you will be remembered, by your friends, family and mostly by your children, if you have any, and grandchildren as a bigot? I’m just wondering how that feels.

Nibbly:
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He and 3xfire3 both informed me that they have Black freinds and family members once. Once, even, Rusty claimed he need to take a Black relative to the doctor.
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I’m sure he has Muslim freinds and family as well.
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After all, how could you possibly even think he’s a bigot with all that?

homer, maybe the best way to summarize it is this: we all have a few relatives we’d prefer to disown, either because of their rank stupidity or other personality flaws. But as long as they’re in the minority, we put up with that flaw in the family tree. (Besides, we can always marry some smart people to improve the bloodlines…)
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Same thing here. We consider people like this an embarrassing minority that can be humored because, well, they’re a minority.
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The problem is, in a system where many people don’t vote and this minority does in strong numbers, their power exerts itself out of all proportion to their numbers. And because they’re louder than the “silent majority” who thinks they’re idiots, they get more attention than they deserve.
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Put it together and they can derail a lot of things. I’m deeply worried that might happen in November.

“Here’s the thing: I suspect a similar dynamic happens on the far progressive side.”
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Let me get this right before I call you an idiot. The Left has no use for Obama because they are racists, is that correct?

“other team,” “their side”? Sorry, Muslims, Ricardo says you are part of the “other team.” Who else is in the “other team”? Jews? Hindus? Buddists? Do you have to be brown or is white Muslim also on the “other team”? I’d like to know more about who’s on what team…

“The levels of anti-Islamic bigotry in general are shocking, and depressing.”

Brought to you by your friends at the Republican Party and their junior league, the Tea Party Patriots.

Remember when President Kennedy admitted that he was a German during his Berlin speech? He would have been impeached today.

Really? Then that should be a real lively funeral. I’d love to be a fly on the wall to hear all the eulogies from his black “friends” and family, all those “Rusty did the funniest bigoted thing” stories. Bet they’re really entertaining.

He took orders from the Pope.

So let me see if I got this straight Rusty:
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You’re upset because all liberals think all conservatives are bigots.
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You think all Muslims are the terrorists or sympathetic to terrorists or at the very least, anti-American.
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So, in conclusion, you’re upset about broad sweeping generalizations made about conservatives while making broad sweeping generalizations about Muslims.
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The irony is that you’ll never see the irony.

And Sirhan Sirhan made the Pope pay.

Obama demonstrates that he’s aware of Islamic culture and it’s contribution to the world in a handful of chopped up video clips and that is evidence that he’s a Muslim? And in post #4 you wonder why you guys get labeled racists and bigots? You idiots can’t seem to tell the difference between knowing about Islam, can’t tell the difference between culture and religion, can’t tell the difference between a religion and an organization. Or you guys simply don’t want to because it doesn’t fit your narrative that Obama’s a bad guy who can’t be trusted and has been allegedly undermining our country since the minute after he was declared the victor in the 2008 election. I miss the good old days when fringe lunatics that believe crap that like that video used to just talk to each other about it. Thanks to McCain/Palin’s desperate last days they shined a national spotlight on you guys in an attempt to scare people out of voting for Obama. It didn’t work but it opened a pandora’s box that we’ve been paying for ever since.

Virginia, I agree. I really hope that the “silent” majority makes its voice heard in November.

Derek, you probably won’t be aware of this but a lot of immigrant’s and their offspring are. When I was brought up in UK my parents used to say that I had to work twice as hard as the others in school just to keep pace with them as I would be judged by subtly different standards. I never really wanted to believe it but I have had enough experiences to demonstrate the validity of that axiom. That is not to say that everyone I met was racist and if you look at what I said I referred to people’s prejudices as well as racism. Everyone has prejudices – black, white, indian, muslim whatever. I am also not saying that the left doesn’t have cause to be disappointed in Obama (not that I agree with those, but I understand it). It just seems to me that he is being judged to a much much higher standard than previous liberal/progressive presidents. I believe that some of that is to do with that thing that my parents said – he has to work twice as hard and be twice as good as previous presidents to be favourably compared to them. You can call me an idiot if you want but I am talking from my own experience.

It doesn’t say anything about me Joe. I wish you wouldn’t make me culpable for the willful ignorance of those that I must get along with.
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One has to wonder if people are responding truthfully to this poll.

lol. YES, Kennedy in Berlin is an excellent analogy. Obama reaches out to the Muslim world in an attempt to reverse the damage that Bush and his people did to our foreign relations and our relations with Muslims in general and the wing nuts label him a Muslim. The really sad thing is that because of his family background and his experience growing up, he’s exactly the right guy to do that. That’s a bad thing to the loud minority of people in our country who think that acknowledging anything outside of a belief in a Christian god is un-American and therefore Evil. I’m beginning to rethink my position on the Bush years. I’m starting to think that we got the president we deserved from 2000 to 2008. Obama is probably the President we need right now but I think it may be too late.

61% of Democrats (and 100% of Time magazine employees) are 9/11 Truther freakshow freak conspiracy theorists who think that George W. Bush had foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks or are “not sure” if George W. Bush had foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/bush_administration/22_believe_bush_knew_about_9_11_attacks_in_advance

Joe Klein:
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“What Does This Say About Us?”
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It says quite a great deal about you and the rest of the political press corps that disinformation campaigns about basic facts would overtake a majority of the American people.
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The next question would be:
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“What are we doing wrong as journalists, editors and publishers? How have we failed so spectacularly?”
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Well, Joe Klein? Any answers?

SZ, it is too easy to blame the media in this case. They do share some of the blame but doesn’t the public itself share the blame (and the bulk of it). there is absolutely no shortage of real objective information out there. if people choose only to watch Fox News or get their news from Rush Limbaugh it’s hard to blame the media alone for that – Americans always talk about personal responsibility perhaps it’s time to live up to that?

Ich bin ein pastry.
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Alas even today I don’t think there would be such a fuss about that. Makes me think that there is another underlying reason.

I am a jelly donut. Some of those old “1000 Words” were great.

I agree with stuart on this one. There are many of us who are perceptive enough to see past what we are bombarded with on a daily basis by the media.
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The case in point being the title of this piece:
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“What does this say about us?”
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The title, though superficially an attempt at provoking introspection, is more about the narrow group who are either willingly or passively uninformed. FOX news audiences make up the majority of those who believe this way (I think!), plus others, who have picked up sentiments from the people around them, who have picked it up from their favorite media.
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Most people get their news about who and what Obama this way, and hence, it’s really more a question that should be directed at them* and the quality of their journalism, and the standards they apply to their own conduct.
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*Journalists and media personnel

And your point is? M. Kinsley’s argument, in the piece you link to, is that if a politician’s world view is shaped by his faith, then it’s fair for citizens to want to know more about what he believes and how deeply.

And that’s all the more reason it’s sad that so many Americans don’t know (or have conveniently forgotten) this simple, indisputable fact: Pres. Obama is a Christian. Recognizing Muslims’ constitutional rights doesn’t make him a Muslim any more than granting women the vote makes one a woman.

more than 30% believed Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11, if I remember correctly

A new study by the Pew Research Study shows that viewers of the Daily Show and the Colbert Report have the highest knowledge of national and international affairs, while Fox News viewers rank nearly dead last.

The results about Fox News echo findings of previous surveys. In 2003, University of Maryland researchers studied the public’s belief in three false claims — that Iraq possessed WMD, that Iraq was involved in 9/11, and that there was international support for the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/16/daily-show-fox-knowledge/

Coincidentally, Fox News recently purchased a $1M equity stake in the Republican party.

You know, textee, you almost have a legitimate point. The survey actually reports this: “Thirty-five percent (35%) of Democrats believe he did know, 39% say he did not know, and 26% are not sure.” Of course, that was in 2007. I haven’t seen any other, more recent, surveys.
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Of course, you have to clarify what you mean by “foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks.” Did he know al Qaeda would strike that day? No reason to believe that.
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Did he know that al Qaeda was planning some sort of attack in the U.S. and that it might involve airplanes? He did know that on 9/11. He just didn’t do very much about it.
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But in all fairness, removing your aspersions about Time magazine, you make a good point, in my opinion.
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BTW, do you think Obama’s a Muslim? A Socialist? A legitimate citizen of the U.S.?

Defending one group who is nuts by claiming another group is also nuts is not a good debating strategy. All you’re doing is saying there are a lot of nuts around.

What on earth was President Obama thinking? He has to know that part of pushing his agenda requires that he actually is well-regarded nationally and is a viable two-term candidate. His loud and proud support only adds fuel to the fire for his critics and those now include independents.

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Did his advisors actually tell him to go “Pro Ground Zero mosque” with 90 days until the midterms when Democrats are about to get sliced up like a Hibachi Steak at Benihana?

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Did someone on his team point to Iran and said, “Don’t worry Mr. President, we can win with 32% of the vote, Ahmadinejad did it, so let’s go pro Ground Zero mosque today?”

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Read this article which satirizes the whole mess.

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VERY FUNNY stuff.

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http://www.dailygoat.com/?p=2653

homerhk thanks for the response. However, I have to confess that I still don’t know whether you are calling the Left racist or not. I think you are. I’m I wrong?

to hear the term “muslim sympathizer” without irony…

*gasp!* Another Rogers fan! I love that man’s brain. And snark …

What can it possibly say about us when significant numbers of the public – sometimes outright majorities – in a media-rich 21st century democracy don’t understand the easily observed and explained facts of our society and leadership?
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Media = FAIL.
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That’s what it says about us.

I have no idea what the ultimate cause of ignorance is but a couple of things probably don’t help. One, the Left does not have anything like Fox News, a propaganda outlet that pretends to be balanced while at the same time pushing one point of view. Two, a mainstream media that treats all opinions, from the Left and Right, as equal, without bothering to investigate whether they are or not.

Firstly, being President is like any other job. Does your employer have the right to ask you your religion? So, it does’nt really matter what religion he is.
Secondly, due to the fact that he can be any religion he wants and still be the President, who cares what religion people think he is.

Even if he were, by some stretch of the imagination, a Muslim … why would that matter? Is there some reason the president can’t or shouldn’t be Muslim?
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Or Catholic? Or Buddhist? Or Mormon (though, please, not Mitt!)
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Or atheist?
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Why in the year 2010 does it freakin’ matter?

Exactly. This the USA after all!!!
Let him be whatever he wants.

It matters if you can tie all Muslims to 9/11, which is obviously what the right and a few democrats are trying to do.

Joe, you should change the second to last sentence and write something appropriately that every serious person agrees with to “The levels of hatred of the United States by American liberals is not shocking as they have always hated the United States and they have no business living there.”

“The levels of hatred of the United States by husein11 is not shocking as he has always hated the United States and he hasn o business living there.”

How do you like it?

Everyone said that Obama’s presidency would push us to a post-racial era. Now it seems the racists and bigots are bolder than ever not even willing to disguise their ignorant comments.
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Muslims have fought and died for this country. To label them as the “other side” is simply disgusting.

“What Does This Say About Us?”
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It says that Rush Limbaugh and FOX – and wingers everywhere – are working for Osama bin Laden:

…from a national security perspective, our leaders need to understand that no one is likely to be happier with the opposition to building a mosque than Osama Bin Laden. His next video script has just written itself.
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– Ali Soufan

http://www.forbes.com/2010/08/18/ground-zero-mosque-controversy-opinions-contributors-ali-soufan_print.html

Paul, it seems JK has difficulty taking responsibility for the negligence of the traditional media. He has to protect his position as a omnipotent pundit.
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Funny, I was reading an article in Vanity Fair about the late designer, womanizer, and Kennedy pal Oleg Cassini and learned Joe Klein was the ghostwriter of his autobiography. Cassini was secretly married for 26 years and this was never mentioned in his book. After his death, Klein was “shocked” to learn this fact. Many people new of the marriage but Joe didn’t seem to bother with confirming the facts of the man’s life. After all, he was just a stenographer.
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When you are just a stenographer, you have no responsibility for content.

The truth is, a very large percentage of Americans are ignorant when it comes to civics, politics, foreign affairs, geography, and religion. They know more about the sex life and sexual orientation of athletes and entertainers than important issues that affect their lives. They are easily swayed by “loud mouths” bigots and racist who preach hatred and division. They are too lazy to research the facts. The media can take some blame for their “method” of reporting. They are obsessed with negatives and so many reporters are looking for that “gotcha” moment. They are careless with facts and try to analyze beyond their own education and experience. For example, some major news commentators stated the president ‘reversed” his stand with respect to the buiding of an Islamic Center in NYC. His comments were extremely consistent, but he was forced to clarify because of careless reporting. All along he stated that Muslims had the right to build the center according to the Constitution of the United States and that Freedom of Religion was a basic American right. He further stated he thought the decision was a matter for New Yorkers to resolve. Another example: There was so much negative publicity for healthcare reform with idiots like Palin stating that it would result in death panels, rationing, etc, that it terrified a large number of Americans. Again they were too lazy to investigate and took the word of of a person who attended six colleges before graduating and still didn’t know that Africa was a continent and not a country. Pathetic………………….

Please do me the greatest favor, homerhk, and read this piece by Bob Somerby:
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http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh081910.shtml

Yet the traditional media keeps defending Fox as a legitimate news source. The network is so blindingly partisan and so consequential with the old and feeble. Where is the MSM inquiry of Beck using the sacred site of the Lincoln memorial and the MLK iconic event as a place and date for his for profit gathering? I support his right to gather his cultists there on that date but wish the press would give the event some context.
However, my cynical mind thinks many in the MSM are leaving an opening on their resume to add Fox as an employer.

Greg Sargent has some interesting notes from one of the internals of the poll.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/08/poll_most_of_those_who_think_o.html

The people on the right constantly disparage the patriotism and loyalty of liberals.
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I have a plan. As a liberal, I suggest we all move to France or some Scandanavian country and leave the US to the right.
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Imagine the fate of the US. The best scientific minds gone, the best intellects gone, the hard working members of labor unions gone, the best creative artists gone, environmental advocates gone, social justice workers gone, civil rights advocates gone…The list is endless.
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America then would fall into the hands of Gingrich, Limbaugh, Beck, Murdoch, Ailes, Shlafly, the Family Forum, religious right, tea partiers, etc.
The Centerists would find themselves marganilized at best. Corporatists and Christianists would finally join hands and reap their rewards on those who remain to be exploited.
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Could that be the end times?

I would like to know how the poll breaks down by age.
I was telling my son the other day that, sadly, until my generation dies off, not much will change. I come from the “silent generation”. Not baby boomers but grew up in the 40s and 50s. We suddenly seem to have found our voice and brought with the speech the worst of McCarthyism and intolerance.
I have a family that believe as I do and are of my generation. They are loyal and patriotic but are intelligent enough to remember history. I wish it were so for all of the “silent generation”.

“I have a plan. As a liberal, I suggest we all move to France or some Scandanavian country and leave the US to the right.”
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WHAT!!?? Who’s going to pass the safety laws for those dinosaur riding, birther yahoos then? apr2563, we were put here for a purpose. We have to protect them from themselves. Think about this for just a minute…President Rand Paul and Deputy Furher Palin. Now go and unpack.
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Rather than have us move to Europe, let’s send Rand Paul, Newtie and Palin and the rest of their supporters to the free-market, gov’t-less paradise of Somalia. The ones who chose not to go would have to just shut up. Or at maybe let the southern states seceede – at least Texas. I’m sick of fighting their stupidity.

My first question April is why France or a Scandanavian country? You wouldn’t move to an African country? You are obviously a racist.

My next question is why don’t you get the hell out of here and see how it turns out? Perhaps it will be a win-win.

Alright sacredh. I was on my way out the door. I was looking to living a rewarding socialist, nazi, commie life in another country.
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When my grandma would get fed up with us, she would pack a small suitcase, stomp out the door and tell us she was going back to the motherland. Of course, she meant the Austrio-Hungarian Empire and her hero Franz Joseph, both of whom no longer existed.
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Maybe I am getting to that stage in my life.

probably too late now but to Derek part of the reason why you probably can’t ascertain what I am saying is that it’s just an extremely complicated issue that I haven’t clearly set out my thoughts – or perhaps my thoughts aren’t clear. Let me be clear – to coin a phrase. I think that a lot of the opposition to Obama from the right wing has its roots in racism. I think it makes people uncomfortable that there is a black man in charge and giving orders and legitimately going about the business of being President. That to me is clear. BTW that doesn’t mean that those people don’t also have substantive disagreements with what Obama’s trying to do/doing but some of the vehemence of the opposition is simply astounding to me.

On the very progressive liberal left wing I also feel that some of the constant monday morning quarterbacking or incessant carping about trivial things (in essence mirroring some of the wing nut complaints) has also got some underlying prejudice in it.

SZ I read the article but not sure what you want me to take on board. Is it that Clinton faced nuts in his time? Yes, but (a) those things were hardly ever copied or mentioned by the President’s so-called supporters (as is the case now) and (b) those things never got to the level of depicting Clinton as not an american, someone who doesn’t understand or love America. I love Clinton but people do seem to gloss over the fact that he was a bit of a sleaze ball. Obama’s been nothing but exemplary in that regard and he still managed to attract the crazies.

why does it matter what religion obama is? its pathetic and americans are better than that. just because he can recite the koran doesnt mean he is a muslim, its shows that he is not an ignorant dimwit who only knows about their own race and religion…. i read the koran, the torah and the bible, so what does that make me? just because he appreciate the muslim culture and actually know about their history unlike some people who think that all ancient philosophers are from greece or rome….just because he knows the difference’s between islam and extremist unlike some of us, make him a sympathizer… maybe he does have sympathy towards the muslims simply because of the ignorance in some of the americans… come on guys, if you love your country, stop being an ignorant, for our children’s future sake.