Grover Norquist Says Mosque Controversy Is Bad For Republicans

Could all the sound and fury over a proposed mosque near Ground Zero actually be good for Democrats? At least one prominent Republican strategist thinks so, both over the short and the long term.

“It’s the Monica Lewinsky ploy,” says Grover Norquist, a loyal lieutenant to the 1994 Gingrich revolution and president of Americans for Tax Reform. Norquist believes that the Ground Zero mosque controversy is distracting from the core 2010 Republican message in the same way that the Monica Lewinsky scandal distracted Republicans in 1998. “The Republican Party is on track to win a major victory in November based on the issue that Democrats are spending the country blind,” Norquist told me Tuesday evening. “There isn’t a single voter in the country that was planning on voting for the Ds, who says, ‘Oh, mosque issue, now I will vote for the Rs.’”

Back in 1998, congressional Republicans were also “distracted by shiny things,” Norquist says, when the Lewinsky scandal began. “They nationalized the election around an irrelevancy,” he said. Republicans lost five House seats that year, despite widespread predictions that they would expand their majority. Furthermore, Norquist argues that by promoting such tangential issue as the mosque, Republicans have given vulnerable Democrats, like Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a lifeline, allowing him to distance himself from President Obama and the rest of the Democratic Party.  “Harry Reid says, ‘Oh, is this a get out of jail free card?’” Grover explained.

Over the long term, Norquist also sees danger for Republicans not just among Muslim voters, but among other religious groups as well. “Religious minorities all go, ‘I get it. This means me too,’” he said. He pointed to a recent story in the Jewish newspaper The Forward, called “When Shuls Were Banned in America,” which draws connections between the current mosque controversy and New York’s history of antisemitism.

“Long term, you could do to the Muslim vote and every other religious minority what Republicans did to the Catholic vote in ‘Rum Romanism and Rebellion,’” Norquist added, using a phrase uttered at a speech attended by Republican presidential candidate James Blaine in 1884, which arguably cost him victory in that election, by alienating Catholic voters.

Such stands are not out of character for Norquist, who has long waged a battle to make the the Republican Party more inclusive of racial and religious minorities. 
During the Bush Administration, Norquist served as an informal envoy to the American Muslim community. He has also been an outspoken supporter of immigration reform, arguing that it was important that Republicans not alienate Hispanic voters. “Tom Tancredo has done damage to the Republican Party in states he has never visited,” Norquist says, referring to the former Colorado congressman best known for his frequent denunciation of illegal immigration on cable television.

UPDATE: A new Gallup poll suggests that Norquist may be on to something about the mosque issue being a bright shiny distraction. The poll found that while more independent voters strongly disagreed with Obama’s mosque remarks (27 percent) than strongly agreed (15 percent), the response was muted. Only 29 percent of independents said they were “paying a great deal of attention” to the story. Close to half of independents do not have an opinion. Four in ten Americans generally said they didn’t know enough to hazard an opinion. See the poll results here.

UPDATE II: Norquist went on C-Span Thursday to elaborate on this argument. See the video here.

Related Topics: Grover Norquist, mosque, newt gingrich, 2012 Election
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  • Paul-no not that one

    And Ted Olson says it is just bad.
    .
    “(W)e don’t want to turn an act of hate against us by extremists into an act of intolerance for people of religious faith. ”

    .
    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/911-widower-ted-olson-obama-was-right-on-cordoba-house.php?ref=fpblg

  • lreed580

    Powerful statement by Mr. Olson given his wife died in the 9/11 disaster. I take issue with Mark Halperin’s “dramatic/over the top response” to Pres. Obama declaring he has no regrets with his comments on Cordoba House. The media has certainly done its share in perpetuating this controversy.

  • textee

    I’ve got a compromise for the Ground Zero Hamas mosque: Build the mosque but prohibit any member of the Democrat party from ever setting foot in any part of Manhattan. I don’t like my meals at Per Se, Daniel, Le Bernardin and Jean Georges spoiled by the presence of even a single Democrat.

  • shepherdwong

    “The Republican Party is on track to win a major victory in November based on the issue that Democrats are spending the country blind,” Norquist told me Tuesday evening.
    .
    Shorter Norquest (though he’s pretty short): “It’s the economic lie, stupid.”

  • ogliberal

    But Olson is just a gay-loving whiny liberal. And he’s so insensitive – he doesn’t know what it felt like to lose a loved one on 9/11. So who cares what he says…

  • ogliberal

    Norquist (and the WSJ op-ed page) like immigration – legal or not – because immigrants = cheap labor and that’s good for Big Business. Norquist is all about the benjamins. He also has a long-term view – ie, he wants to shrink government down to the size that it can be drowned in the bathtub. In order to do that you need voters. But it’s a 20-year or more project so you can’t rely on angry old white people – they’ll be dead by then. 80% of American Muslims voted for Bush in 2000 before he went crusades on Islam. Bush and the GOP in general were seeing their share of the Latino vote steadily increase for a number of years. These folks are more religious than most Americans and tend to be more socially conservative. They are voters the GOP can win over. But both demographics ran to the Democrats during the Bush years, and that was with a GOP president who went out of his way to say that we are not at war with Islam and who tried to pass reasonable and humane immigration in reform. Now with the firebreathers in charge these folks won’t be going back to the GOP anytime soon.
    ….
    So I can understand why Grover is unhappy with his fellow Republicans. And I’m very happy they are messing up his long term plan, even though the “scare the old white people” strategy will probably give the GOP a nice short-term advantage this Fall.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Per Se, Daniel, Le Bernardin and Jean Georges ?
    .
    That’s a lot of Frog food.
    .
    Go back to France America Hater!!
    .
    P.S. I kid, I doubt you have eaten anything more exotic than a Freedom Fry.

  • newfreedomblog

    Grover is an old has been. You would have done better to have dug up the corspe of James Blaine who may have given you a better argument for not protesting against the ground zero mosque.
    .
    Stupid is what stupid does and TIME.com and it gaggle of reporters are about as smart as a $2 dollar bill.

  • http://twitter.com/michaelscherer Michael Scherer

    I never understood that phrase. What’s so dumb about a $2 bill? Is it really much worse than a $5 bill?

  • bobcn1

    ‘It’s the Monica Lewinsky ploy’.

    Oh, those sneaky Democrats! Just like Br’er Rabbit tricking the fox, they’ve played the ‘Monica Lewinsky ploy’ to trick the GOP. The poor hapless republicans, unable to resist the clever ploy, have been tricked into acting like a bunch of bigoted, unprincipled, constitution shredding jerks. Those sneaky Democrats!

  • ogliberal

    Is Ted Olson an old has been as well?

    You probably thought Grover was the bees knees until he said that maybe we should help illlegal immigrants become citizens a few years back.

  • newfreedomblog

    Actually I took it out of context somewhat; I do believe the saying was something like……..
    .
    Stupid is what stupid does, and TIME.com and its gaggle of reporters are about as queer as a two dollar bill
    .
    The first part of the statement is mine, thank you very much!! I changed the second half of the saying in order to make it more relevant to this post.
    .
    But, thank you for responding no less Michael!!
    .
    Have a great day!!

  • http://twitter.com/michaelscherer Michael Scherer

    Ahh. Thanks. Now I understand. A gay joke. I guess. Good day back at you.

  • newfreedomblog

    And to better define, queer as in odd, out of the norm, out of the ordinary, not relevant to today.
    .
    In the times before they produced an actual two dollar bill, people then began to say as queer as a THREE dollar bill.
    .
    But since two dollar bills are no longer printed, I do believe we can go back to the original statement.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    Can’t understand why Norquist thinks opposing religious freedom, one of the cornerstone principles of democracy itself, is bad for the right. However, the really puzzling thing is to see them posturing that the economy would be better off in their hands, while at the same time not mentioning what it is they would do. One would think the 1.3 trillion dollar deficit and the 700,000 jobs being lost per month, that they handed the Democrats would keep them a little more humble about their economic competence. However, it isn’t like the MSM is spending any time on that angle so I suppose they might as well try.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Build the mosque but prohibit any member of the Democrat party from ever setting foot in any part of Manhattan.”
    .
    “A nationwide survey of 400 Arab Americans conducted in October 1996 by the Arab American Institute found 42% of respondents identifying themselves as Republicans, 36.5% as Democrats and 21.4% as either independents or as registered with a third party….
    The 2000 Vote: Arabs for George W. Bush…
    A Zogby poll of 505 Arab Americans shortly after the vote found 45% for Bush, 38% for Gore, and a considerable 13.5% for Ralph Nader, who is of Lebanese descent.”
    .
    http://middleeast.about.com/od/usmideastpolicy/a/me080922.htm
    .
    Textee, before 9/11, just like Evangelical Christians, the more devout they are, the more likely they are to be Republican.
    .
    Why would I or most non-Muslim Democrats possibly want to visit this Mosque?
    .
    When I was younger and a practicing Catholic I would have had very little interest in going into a Mosque, a synagogue or a protestant Church and, as an atheist I am now, also, uninterested in Catholic Churches as well.
    .
    As usual, your post is brainless.

  • skippybkroo

    fine, but i’m assuming it’s ok if anyone from the democratic party eats in manhattan, since there is no such thing as the “democrat party.”

    nouns =/= adjectives; there’s a difference, which you would know if you hadn’t been home-schooled.

    just try substituting the word “jew” for the word “jewish” in any similar situation and see how sophisticated you sound.

  • Ike Jakson

    If this goes on much longer it will be the only matter that the voter will consider on November 2nd and he will deliver the final verdict. Until then this is all mere speculation and Time should be ashamed of itself for its participation.

    Is it not Time to drop this from the public agenda and address the imports from China and unemployment, the financial crisis, corruption, and so much more?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Norquist is married to Samah Alrayyes,[33] a Kuwaiti PR specialist who was formerly a director of the Islamic Free Market Institute and specialist at the Bureau of Legislative and Public Affairs at USAID.[34][35] Norquist is said to live a modest lifestyle”
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist#Personal
    .
    “Born in Kuwait City, Kuwait to parents of Palestinian descent, Alrayyes and her family immigrated to the United States in 1990. She attended Northeastern University in Boston, receiving her B.S. in political science in 1995. After graduation she attended the American University in Cairo, and received her M.A. in political science with an emphasis on international relations. Her thesis, entitled “Religion, Domestic Politics and Foreign Policy in the Third World: The Case of the Indo-Pakistani Conflict over Kashmir,” dealt with the role of religion in foreign policy formation”
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samah_Norquist
    .
    One could very literally say that Norquist is in bed with Islam, but, if I am not mistaken, neither one of them are very religious.
    .
    It pains me to say anything good about Norquist, but, there is little doubt that he is very against religious discrimination and appears to be, as far as I know, strongly anti-racist.
    .
    He is, also, unlike most conservatives of this time, able to see that often devoutly religious Catholic Latinos as well as Muslim Americans are dying to vote for conservative Republicans unless, as they are, kicking these groups below the belt with anti-immigration policies and the fake “Ground Zero Mosque” (which is, really, the Burlington Coat Factory Islamic equivalent to the YMCA).

  • shepherdwong

    One would think the 1.3 trillion dollar deficit and the 700,000 jobs being lost per month, that they handed the Democrats would keep them a little more humble about their economic competence. However, it isn’t like the MSM is spending any time on that angle so I suppose they might as well try.
    .
    Having cowed the corporate press, Republicans are free to lie and spin and lie all day long. And they keep proving again and again that, absent some authority to call out their lies, millions of people simply believe them:
    .
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/economic_stimulus_package/july_2010/29_say_stimulus_plan_helped_the_economy_43_say_it_hurt

  • ogliberal

    Pam Geller warned America months ago that Grover Norquist is a dirty, Ay-rad loving (again, literally) jihadist water boy.

    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/03/pamela-geller-american-thinker-grover-norquists-jihad.html

    Thank god Ms. Geller, in all her bronzeness, is out the doing god’s work, keeping America safe. What would we do without her. Who would protect us from anti-tax, small government, Islamic radicals like Norquist?

  • husein11

    I love how the liberal “journalists”, like Mike, go looking for any Republican they can find to support their positions and then say the other idea, which has the support of 70% of the population, is bad for the Republican party.

  • nibblybits

    Derek says: “if I can help the democrats lose in some small way I will feel I’ve accomplished something. Staying home is about the only option until a left-wing party emerges. You don’t seem to get the fact that they, the democraps, are the enemy of the Left, just as much as the Right. In fact, they are more of an enemy because they pretend to be on the Left side and yet they are just another group of war mongering incompetents.”
    .
    http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/08/17/morning-must-reads-million-dollar-touch/#comments#ixzz0wyREZlL2
    .
    So worth repeating.

  • nibblybits

    I want to see this continue on. It’s one of those issues in which people stop being polite, stop pretending they’re civilized, and feel safe to let their inner bigot come out. Shake the pot and see who stands for what.
    .
    I agree with Grover that in a month or two, this will advantage the Democrats. People will awaken to a wicked hangover from their anti-Muslim hysteria and feel the shame of what they espoused. But until then, let’s get everyone on the record.

  • shepherdwong

    Derek says: “if I can help the democrats lose in some small way I will feel I’ve accomplished something.”
    .
    Derek says: “if I can help the centrist democrats lose in some small way I will feel I’ve accomplished something.”
    .
    Fixed.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Wow-that’s quite a link.
    .
    Pam may have a big microphone but Grover has the wallet.

  • 53_3

    How would you know I was a democrat, textee?
    .
    I kinda look like Rush Limbaugh. Not quite as fat, though…

  • kathleenshenanigans

    First of all, I enjoyed the article. However, “I get it, this means me too” has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I don’t live in New York. Perhaps, it is cheaper to build in this area(which I sincerely doubt)? Otherwise, I see no feasible reason to build said community center/mosque/Chuck E. Cheese in such close proximity to the site of a former tragedy. I don’t think it’s condemnable, I think it’s in incredibly poor taste. As a religious person, I have no problem with religions. I do have a problem with extremists. Religious extremists were responsible for 9/11. They certainly are not representative of the entire Muslim population. I’m not sure if said community center is being placed as a means of establishing the presence of the “good guys”, so to speak. I see it as either a tactical move to either give the religion a publicity facelift the size of Joan Rivers or to reestablish their relevance, neither of which seems to belong at this location. In other news, didn’t Clinton have a convenient distraction from Kosovo during Lewinskygate?

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    Is there a centrist, ankle biter filter on this forum?

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    shepherdwong maybe the right feels no compulsion to explain what their economic recovery plan is because we already know, tax cuts for the wealthy and deregulation.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    It’s all in the phrasing. Ask someone “Do you oppose a mosque being built a stones throw from ground zero?” they’ll tell you one thing. Ask them “Do you beleive the first amendment protection of religion should only apply to some people and not others?”, they might have a different take.
    .
    Besides which, a large majority of Americans were sure that Saddam had WMD’s and a connection to 9-11.

    They were tragically wrong about that as well.

  • 53_3

    And all this time I thought that the phrase referred to a three dollar bill.
    .
    Silly, silly me…

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    The old term is “as fake as a three dollar bill”.
    .
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=three+dollar+Bill
    .
    I never heard the urban slang using three dollar bill for a homosexual, but, I am unfamiliar with both the hip hop culture and homosexuals.
    .
    A two dollar bill has no meaning whatsoever.
    .
    It looks like Rusty pulled Dan Quayle.

  • nflfoghorn

    …for a minute there I thought you were serious :)

  • grape_crush

    I see no feasible reason to build said community center/mosque/Chuck E. Cheese in such close proximity to the site of a former tragedy.
    .
    Then you believe the city should clear all businesses like restaurants, strip clubs, betting parlor, and bars out of respect as well? And, yes, all of those things exist in close proximity to the WTC site.
    .
    I’m not sure if said community center is being placed as a means of establishing the presence of the “good guys”, so to speak.
    .
    There are mosques in around the same area; they’ve been there for years.
    .
    I see it as either a tactical move…
    .
    And I see it as a Islamic equivalent of the YMCA buying an unused building in an effort to serve religious moderates living in NYC.

  • pelhamite1

    Kathleen,

    With all due respect, your post demonstrates the ignorance that has suffused this issue form the dialing up of a week ago. The Cordoba House is a project of the local mosque in downtown New York (that is, in fact, four blocks away from Gound Zero) that is run by the Sufis branch of Islam. The Sufis are the most moderate, loosey goosey branch of Islam you will find, more or less the Unitarians of the Moslem world. The hard core Wahabi sect, of the sort that provides the base for Al-Qaeda, despise them and, in fact, kill them when the opportunity arises, as they did recently in Pakistan when they blew up a Sufi shrine. It is one reason among many that imam Feisal Rauf of this mosque was put on George W. Bush’s panel of moderate Islam leaders in the wake of the 9/11 – Bush recognized that if the war against Al-Qaeda was to avoid bercoming perceived against all of Islam, he was going to need the likes of Imam Rauf to demonstrate that the idea of moderate Islam was something America accepted. Inspired by this mission, it seems, Imam Rauf decided it would be a wonderful thing to establish an Islamic equivalent of the (Jewish) 92nd St Y for community events, seminars and the like. The whole project was done with the best of intentions and in the name of interfaith outreach.

    Once again, however, it seems that no good deed goes unpunished, certainly not with the current brand of Republicans. Not content with declaring war on the few thousand dead enders who currently make up Al-Qaeda and the few million that support the Taliban, they want to carry the fight to the more than one billion practicing Muslims throughout the globe. Essentially, Newt Gingrich took one look at the first Muslim coming across the field waving a white flag, willing to talk, raised his gun and fired.

    Here’s the sad, and important, part: It cannot be emphasized enough what a publicity boon this issue is to our enemies, the propogandists who want to convince Muslims worldwide that America hates them all. Our effort in Afghanistan, already daunting, just became immeasurably more difficult thanks to oppotunistic Republicans, Fox News and the right wing echo chamber. more good men are going to die as the result of this cynical ploy. Congratulations, ladies and gentlemen.

  • nflfoghorn

    Impeachment or stained dress, take your pick.

  • apr2563

    RW commentators keep missing the fact the “sacred” site is going to be filled with commercial enterprises. A small portion is set aside for a memorial.
    They will truely be located at the place of the 9/11 tragedy. Not 2 blocks away.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Kathleen,
    .
    I do live in New York and my work is Manhattan Commercial Real Estate.
    .
    First, if you spend a day working or living in NYC the first thing you will notice is that distances are pedestrian based so that you are walking at one and a half miles per hour rather than driving at 30 miles per hour.
    .
    So, four blocks in Manhattan is like 80 blocks (four miles) in terms of other places.
    .
    (You move with your own feet one twentieth as fast as one drives in most places).
    .
    Second, I, personally, worked on a project last year to find a 100,000 to 200,000 square foot building. (My cut of the commission would have been over a million dollars has we closed the deal). There are extremely few vacant 100,000 square foot buildings for sale in any given year.
    .
    Perhaps ten blocks may have been better in theory, but, in reality what is for sale is what is for sale and you can not expect to be that picky when you want to at least get the correct neighborhood.
    .
    Third, they chose the location because it is their belief that non-Muslims who wish to discover what the overwhelming majority of Muslims and, specifically Muslim Americans are like can stop by and find out.
    .
    If they opened one in Mid-Town four miles to the North, it would have not only been at least twice as expensive, but, it would be two and a half hour walk from Ground Zero.
    .
    Since their goal is to be somewhere near Ground Zero but not disrespectfully on Ground Zero (which would be offensive, of course) to show good Islam to others, I have to say that they have no other choice but that building.
    .
    For now it seems as if the goal of being within a three minute walk of Ground Zero has backfired and done the opposite of what they had wished. But, wait a few years and see those Rabbis and Catholic Priests who supported it bring their congregations over for inter-religious meetings and let’s see how people feel about it in 2015 or 2020.
    .
    Considering the particular Imam and the message being repeated about the project over and over by them, their intents are extremely benevolent even if, momentarily, the results are not exactly ideal.

  • apr2563

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/911-widower-ted-olson-obama-was-right-on-cordoba-house.php?ref=fpa
    .
    The spouse of a victim of 9/11 speaks out for the Cordoba House. A conservative.

  • kbanginmotown

    Just like Boehner’s fears about the Health Care Summit…
    ****”It’s a trap!”*****

  • kbanginmotown

    nibbly: I agree with you.
    .
    Most of the GOP knew better than to embrace the “birthers” in 2008/9 (even though, I suspect, they wanted to pile on badly).
    .
    They now have a chance to go “all in” on hatin’ the Muslin’s…

  • kbanginmotown

    Michael: It there a link to the article/interview that Norquist wrote/gave? Besides stating that that the GZM(tm) controversy is “bad for the Republicans”, does he, you know, say, for example, that the GOPers who are against the GZM are, perhaps, wrong? Jus’ askin’.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    I see something broader going on in this manufactured controversy.

    In most democracies worldwide, there are multiple political parties.

    Democrats contain centrists, laborists [sic] (an adaptation of the British Labour Party followers to American spelling) and social liberals.

    Republicans have three factions as well: Fiscal conservatives such as Norquist, Nationalists such as Pat Buchanan and religious conservatives such as Pat Robertson.

    Due to pandering to Nationalist with a very aggressive military policy of preemptive war under Bush and a large number of earmark projects during the six years of both houses and the White House under Republican control, the fact that deregulation for the last 30 years is almost exclusively the cause of the financial meltdown Republicans can not expect hard core believers in fiscal conservativism to believe in them nor expect any new converts to fiscal conservatism.

    Religious conservatives are desire things such as an overturning of Roe vs Wade and a ban on same sex marriage but are losing in the courts regardless of who they elect.

    So, Republicans at the moment are appealing to the Nationalists who fear new religious and new people to our country.

    Ironically, religious Muslims, religious Latinos and – although a digression here – religious blacks are all ideal candidates to be recruited to vote Republican but are being shoved away by the Nationalist faction of the party.

    My best estimate is that, due to, basically, never having children (outside of artificial means or adoption) gays would be ideal fiscal conservatives since so many things Democrats propose in terms of government are geared toward children, schools and the environment our grandchildren live in would be excellent for Republicans to gain as voters.

    So, now, Republicans are limiting themselves to white, religious Christian, American born upper income people who live far away from cities where they do not know and therefore may fear immigrants and new religions.

    Combine those five factors and the Republican base is pretty small and shrinking.

  • dankaduna

    The only time the MSM gives credence to anything a Republican has to say is when the Republican is saying something dumb which the MSM would like to believe.

    Anyone who really thinks the mosque controversy is going to hurt Republicans is going to be in for a shock this November. It’s true that the Democrats’ poor handling of the economy will be the main issue that loses them seats, but reminders of the Democrats’ stand on social and cultural issue like this are just helping to turn the rising tide against them into a full-blown tsunami.

  • http://seeseebutler.wordpress.com seeseebutler

    I have been reading the mosque articles on this website and it is obvious that Time Online is engaged in a shameless crusade to convince its readers that the mosque should be built near ground zero. There is not even a pretext to provide balance. It is pathetic.

  • sacredh

    “There isn’t a single voter in the country that was planning on voting for the Ds, who says, ‘Oh, mosque issue, now I will vote for the Rs.’”

    It seems to me like the republicans keep trying to solidify a base that is already solid by keeping distractions like the mosque controversy in the news instead of focusing on the major issues. The people they want to fire up are already fired up. They’ve got that vote. It’s theirs.
    .
    “Religious minorities all go, ‘I get it. This means me too,’”

    When Clinton ran on “It’s the economy stupid”, he stuck to that. The distractions aren’t going to help the republicans more than maintaining a steady drumbeat on the deficits and government spending. They should avoid these side issues, but they can’t. I used to think that the democrats had a continuing strategy on how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. That’s one page from the playbook the republicans should have left alone.

  • savagejoes

    the difference between this and lewinsky is that this hits to the heart and emotion of american sentiment and patriotism. at no time in our history have we ever had to deal with this sort of snub towards american sovereignty and good graces than with this incident. these muslim leaders should be ashamed of themselves for even promoting this idea. and B.O. should be ashamed that he wears the title of President.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Skippy-
    With the exception of a few families deep in the Kentucky mountains hiding their children away from the government, home-schoolers are notoriously better educated than the mucks coming out of American public schools. Home-schoolers are not simply being taught whatever their parents think. For the state to recognize completed grades, the children must pass state exams still. What’s more, the curriculum and textbooks come from private centers, such as Seton Hall. The curriculum is astronomically more well-rounded, nuanced, and encouraging of a prosperous future. These kids are studying language, actual history courses (versus fairytale Americanized propaganda), classical literature from Ancient Rome and Greece, etc, etc. All this at fairly young ages too, as the curriculum is much more advanced on a grade to grade scale than that of public schools. Don’t spout nonsensical talking-points based on the occasional fringe anti-government quacks to malign one of the most well-educated segments of our population. Yes. I was home-schooled.

  • nibblybits

    “snub towards american sovereignty (sic)”? In what way?
    .
    And how does patriotism come into this? Those involved in the project are fellow American citizens.

  • nibblybits

    Balance for what? This is a clear case of right and wrong. Should rational people argue for a side that is clearly wrong?

  • dante99654

    The Rev. Dr. Samuel Burchard said “rum, romanism,” not the presidential candidate, Mr. Blaine. As Wikipedia explains “Blaine did not notice Burchard’s anti-Catholic slur, nor did the assembled newspaper reporters, but a Democratic operative did, and Cleveland’s campaign managers made sure that it was widely publicized. The statement energized the Catholic vote in New York City heavily against Blaine” I think this is apropos in explaining how long the Democrats will stick with a lie, foster and fester it. 1884 to 2010, 126 years and still they tar the Republican candidate with something he neither said nor endorsed. Journolist is not a new phenomenon – the press massaging the public with a lie in support of Democrats, until no one even bothers to try to correct it.

  • grape_crush

    There is not even a pretext to provide balance.
    .
    Funny…so, If I say the Earth revolves around the Sun and you say the Earth is the center of the universe, both of those statements need serious examination in order to provide some ersatz need for ‘balance’, yes?
    .
    Sorry, but this is one of those times where the difference between what’s right and what’s overblown, bigotry-fueled hysteria doesn’t deserve ‘balanced’ consideration…especially when the hysteria in question is fake outrage ginned up to scare and excite people.
    .
    This August’s falsely and pejoratively named ‘Ground Zero Mosque’ is last year’s ‘Death Panels’.

  • abbydelabbey

    My objections to the Republicans have nothing to do with their stance on the mosque in NY; my objections are based on their ideology — an ideology that has failed America in so many ways.

    My objections to the Democrats is that they are not doing what they were elected to do in the last election.

    My objections to politicians in general is that they are self-serving lap-dogs of the corporations and of the rich.

    My objections to politicians in general is that they care not one whit for the poor or middle class.

    government of, by, and for the rich!

  • kevin

    reminders of the Democrats’ stand on social and cultural issue like this are just helping to turn the rising tide against them into a full-blown tsunami.
    .
    So the Democrats should p!ss on the Bill of Rights and trash the basic concept of religious freedom in order to save a few House seats in the fall?
    .
    To h*ll with that. I’d rather lose more in the fall than sell out my soul and my conscience.

  • kevin

    There is not even a pretext to provide balance. It is pathetic.
    .
    I know, it’s like they think religious hatred is a bad thing. Totally unfair to the bigots.

  • kevin

    How is it a “snub to sovereignty” because a group of American citizens want to exercise their constitutional right to free exercise of religion?
    .
    For someone who talks about patriotism, you don’t know the first f*cking thing about what this country stands for and what it’s principles are. You want to live in a country where there’s a state religion? Go move to Saudi Arabia.

  • kevin

    You might want to get a prescription to help out with the crippling case of paranoia you have.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “”Blaine did not notice Burchard’s anti-Catholic slur, nor did the assembled newspaper reporters, but a Democratic operative did, and Cleveland’s campaign managers made sure that it was widely publicized. The statement energized the Catholic vote in New York City heavily against Blaine” I think this is apropos in explaining how long the Democrats will stick with a lie, foster and fester it. 1884 to 2010, 126 years and still they tar the Republican candidate with something he neither said nor endorsed.”
    .
    Dante,
    This quote may not have been his, but, he did exactly the same thing as the Republicans are now, but, then, against Catholics.

    “Blaine Amendment

    In 1875, to promote the separation of church and state, Blaine proposed the Blaine Amendment, a constitutional amendment that would prohibit the use of public funds by any religious school. It never passed Congress but a majority of states subsequently adopted similar laws.
    James G. Blaine

    Catholics denounced the Blaine Amendment as anti-Catholic. It was strongly supported by Protestants, especially Methodists, Baptists and Congregationalists. Blaine, who actively sought Catholic votes when he ran for president in 1884, believed that his amendment would forestall the danger of bitter and divisive agitation on the question.”
    .
    As you may have or may not have noticed, of all of the religions in the United States, Catholics build the most schools and hospitals per capita.
    .
    So, even if the quote was not his, the point about Blaine having anti-Catholic beliefs was very, very real.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor
  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “..hits to the heart and emotion of american sentiment and patriotism. at no time in our history have we ever had to deal with this sort of snub towards american sovereignty.”
    .
    Sovereignty?
    .
    I would say that German subs in the Port of New York was a bigger attack on our sovereignty.
    .
    I would say Germans sinking so many cargo and oil vessels headed for Europe that beaches were closed from Maine to Florida due to chronic oil slicks.
    .
    I would say that the Civil War was a bigger threat to our sovereignty.
    .
    I would say that the War of 1812 was a bigger threat to our sovereignty.
    .
    “As Muslim Leaders of Tomorrow, we proclaim our commitment to improving our communities and our world for present and future generations. Driven by sincere intentions and leading by example, we create a platform for informed, collective, and sustainable action; true to the diversity of the Ummah and the pluralism of Islamic thought, we work together and empower others to find solutions to difficult challenges; and, guided by the teachings of the Qur�an and the Prophet, we strive to create secure, peaceful, and thriving societies for the benefit of all humanity. We dedicate ourselves to the following:”
    .
    http://www.cordobainitiative.org/?external_link=www.muslimleadersoftomorrow.org/
    .
    I don’t think it is anything other than an invitation for people of other religions to become friends with Muslims.
    .
    Since Republicans, against the wishes of the majority of New Yorkers used 9/11 as a means for an offensive war attacking a country which posed zero threat to us (Iraq) and how Bush ran for re-election using his new war and fears in other parts of the country but lost New York twice, it is a threat against Republican talking points and, since New Yorkers find the Mosque totally acceptable and a warm gesture, a reminder that those who know 9/11 have never wanted Bush in office nor anybody from his far right ideology.
    .
    So,if I may, let me correct you statement:
    .
    “..hits to the heart and emotion of right wing sentiment and patriotism. at no time since 9/11 have we ever had to deal with this sort of snub towards the Republican Party from New Yorkers.”
    .
    That, my friend, is a reasonable statement.

  • publius14

    The furor over President Obama’s statements about the cultural center in Manhattan, with its mosque inside, has been astonishing. Everyone has an opinion, evidently, notably such highly respected political philosophers as Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, and Liz Cheney. Some, like Harry Reid have been less than courageous in responding to this onslaught.

    Let me state my credentials for opining at all on this issue. I am a 9/11 survivor of Hani Hanjour’s American 77 strike on the Pentagon, and I am also a retired Army officer sworn to protect and defend the Constitution. No one asked my opinion about the Manhattan cultural center, particularly no one who ever served in the military, nor anyone who was anywhere near any of the 9/11 sites on that day, but here it is: I believe those attacks occurred because of our values and the disgust criminals like Hani Hanjour held for them. Those values include the freedom of speech, assembly, the press, and religion. To surrender our values is to surrender to criminals like him. It is not acceptable to me, and I regard it as a violation of my oath, which I consider to be binding for the rest of my life.

    Shakespeare put it best: The rest is a tall tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

  • http://bobotis2000.wordpress.com bobotis2000

    Fox Republicant Political Platform:

    We have to protect and amend the US Constitution to stop the Kenyan Socialist Muslim Dictator from allowing Taliban Monkey Soldiers and Mexican / Muslim Terror Babies to become US Citizens and build a Muslim Church in Manhattan that will force God-fearing Americans to Marry Farm Animals and have Death Panel Abortion Parties at Communist Indoctrination Centers for our Children.

    Monica Lewinsky! Mosque on Ground Zero!

    It doesn’t have to make sense, it’s fair and balanced entertainment…

  • jxbonehide

    This is really a terrific read! While an overwhelming majority of Americans clearly see that building a mosque within a few blocks of Ground Zero is in very poor taste, most of posters on this site simply want to vilify those terrible, no-good, evil Republicans. Come on people, wake up and give America some credit. You have to realize that 70% of Americans aren’t religious bigots. The majority of Americans, including many middle-of-the-road Democrats, Republicans and Independents, just have enough sense to know that having the “right” to build the mosque near the site of the 9/11 attack does not make it the “right” thing to do. It’s really quite a simple concept. No prominent politician or reasonable American is talking about revoking someone’s Constitutional Rights, they are simply talking about what the right thing to do is. Unfortunately, it would appear that most of the readers of Time, along with many people on the fringe of liberal thinking, have difficulty with this simple proposition. God help the Democratic Party and the United States of America if this is truly how crazy the left has become in America!

  • http://bobotis2000.wordpress.com bobotis2000

    publius14, thanks for this clear and spot on comment.

  • lepidusxvi

    Queer as in weird/odd, right. That’s how I always took it, although I think you mangled the saying. There’s nothing stupid about it, that’s not what the saying is about. It’s that it’s odd to see.
    .
    Anyway, semantics of the saying aside… NFB, I’d love to hear why this should be prevented or protested from your perspective given the constitution and all.
    .
    I think the recent opinion poll on the topic perfectly sums it up and actually half restores my faith in the average intelligence of people. Most people polled think it should be somewhere else, but none of them think that such a belief should prevent it in any way.
    .
    In other words, you’re entitled to not only believe it’s a bad idea, but to protest it as much as you want (just as I am free to think that doing so is wrong). But the moment you cross the line into legally preventing it from being built… that’s a bridge too far with all sorts of social and constitutional implications.
    .
    To me this is just a case study in political and media sensationalism. It’s nowhere near ground zero and there are Islamic places of worship physically closer to Ground Zero that no one gives a crap about. Yet, throw “Ground Zero Mosque” on it and suddenly people are up in arms as if they’re putting a Mission Accomplished Banner right above the actual site.
    .
    Bottom line to me is simple: If this building is prevented, blocked or scared off… That is the mission accomplished banner right there.

  • stuartzechman

    I can attest with anecdotal evidence, at least, to the validity of what neorationalist86 write regarding home schooling, at least here in Manhattan.

  • stuartzechman

    Excellent commentary; very accurate.

  • stuartzechman

    Again, excellent commentary, patricksartor, and, again, very accurate.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    See the documentary Jesus Camp.
    .
    For the record, it was made with the cooperation of the uber evangelical group.
    .
    Some home schooling is extreme religious and political indoctrination.
    .
    Just like schools some teachers are great some are awful some Mom’s are ideal teachers, others aren’t.
    .
    I never met anybody who was home schooled myself, but can understand why it is associated with bad teaching.

  • kevin

    So Muslims have First Amendment rights, but they should have the good taste not to exercise them?
    .
    God help the Republican Party and the United States of America if this is truly how cowardly and craven the right has become in America!

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    jx,
    .
    Like many things Republicans do, it is based upon misinformation.
    .
    If you said “in the same neighborhood as Ground Zero” you would get a very different answer.
    .
    If you informed people being polled what the Cordoba Initiative was trying to do, it would, also, change the results.
    .
    If you asked them, again, if people living and working in the neighborhood approved of it, that would change people’s answer further.
    .
    Now, had I not known what the truth was if they wanted to put a Mosque ON Ground Zero, I would have, also, found it offensive.
    .
    Misinformation is the key to Republican victories.
    .
    Facts are the best friends of liberals.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Let me put it this way. Home-schooled students are still in the system; as I said earlier, they must file documentation with the state and pass end of grade state examinations. Those with an ax to grind against the government are hardly going to endure such totalitarian oppression, even if their children’s education is at stake. Their’s are called drop-outs, not home-schoolers. And the religious extremists, well, the education they’re giving isn’t likely to give the children the necessary tools to pass state exams, so they too won’t be in the system too long. So, actual home-schoolers such as myself are pretty well immersed in academia.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Democrats are going to lose this match so long as they don’t actually come out and FIGHT. I mean, this is freaking ridiculous. It’s not a mosque. America’s not at war with Islam. The group has been in that area since long before 9/11. The leader of the group has never until this incident been considered an extremist. This is completely ridiculous and the Democrats can WIN this one if they actually came out and said “It’s for New Yorkers to decide but Republican claims are nothing short of bigoted remarks as proven by these facts”. They could use it to stir up both ethnic and religious minorities and they could happily make this election about the mosque. And the Republicans would be happy to oblige them.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Admirable sentiments, Publius, save for this :
    .
    I believe those attacks occurred because of our values and the disgust criminals like Hani Hanjour held for them.
    .
    Really? Do you honestly believe that we are hated because we’re free? I ask that as non-condescendingly as I possibly can. I would suggest that it is United States policies and involvement in the Middle East that wins us such disfavor in the region. The average Muslim is not at all affected by our internal lifestyle, but when we spit in their face, bully and coerce them, and incessantly protect their enemy Israel, no matter how egregious Israel’s crimes, then we are destined to encounter a proportion of Islamic individuals and groups ready to engage in violent retaliation. It’s really quite simple. There is no clash of civilizations, but rather a clash of perceptions. It’s not that our society is incompatible with the Muslim world, it’s that we are perceived as behaving as if ours is superior and theirs irrelevant. Our government and military certainly give weight to that perception.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    publius14,
    .
    Thanks for posting and, of course, thank you for your service in the military.
    .
    I do agree with Exiled that our foreign policy is what makes these small number of horrible criminals choose the US as it’s target.
    .
    Although it is obvious to most people, in no way does disliking some of our policies abroad imply anything against our country much less those who serve in the military.
    .
    The decision makers in Washington have made some choices abroad which, if it was more widely discussed, would be very offensive to the American people.
    .
    One case in point for Exiled is that, as a result of the War in Iraq (obviously post-9/11, but is an example of how or policies are interpreted differently abroad) Iraqi refugees who fled were so poor and unemployable that sometimes wives and mothers had to engage in prostitution in order to purchase food in places like Syria.
    .
    You can guess that, although by no means justifiable, when this type of thing happens to citizens of predominantly Muslim countries, some Iraqis and claim that America wants Iraqi wives and mothers to go from housewives to prostitutes.
    .
    Causing tragedies like the Iraqi refugee situation with our foreign policy is what makes the criminals psychopathic minority of the Islamic world choose America as a target, not that American women wear short skirts sometimes or do not cover their hair.

  • kickpress

    No matter how Obama and his sycophants such as Michael Scherer need objections to a Mosque near the site of the knocked down World Trade to be bad for Republicans, it isn’t. ROFL

    Vincent Mountjoy-Pepka

    Author: Democracy For Americans

  • 53_3

    SZ:
    .
    Thank you for recognizing that anecdotal evidence is data. It is called sometimes “local expert knowledge” and is quite useful in many environmental endeavors [my anecdotal evidence!].
    .
    Consider this more in the manner of thanks, with only a very slight bump in the ribs with my right elbow.

  • 53_3

    I think home schooling can only be as good as the parents…

  • stuartzechman

    Hey, neorationalist86, even though your conservative credentials are immaculate (as it were), you still might enjoy this bit of commentary at the Great Orange Satan:
    .
    http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2010/8/18/92831/5995/1069#c1069
    .
    Click the “view story” link to see the vile diary I’m to which I’m responding.

  • stuartzechman

    And maybe also this one, neorationalist86:
    .
    http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2010/8/18/14223/6269/481#c481

  • 53_3

    Woops.
    .
    Looks like I scrabbled the gun out of the holster just a tweensy bit late…

  • stuartzechman

    53_3:
    .
    It is called sometimes “local expert knowledge” and is quite useful in many environmental endeavors [my anecdotal evidence!].
    .
    LOL.
    .
    Rib-bump taken.
    .
    I’ll be around with an elbow the next time some movement rightist comes here to say “Everybody I know says Social Security is going broke fast!” or “All the liberals I know hate the military!

  • stuartzechman

    Sigh…thank you for responding to whatever commentary you might happen to find here, Michael Scherer…

  • 53_3

    publius14:
    .
    I believe that Bin Laden boasted that his victory would come when we took our own freedoms away.
    .
    Does anyone have corroborating links?

  • 53_3

    Thanks, stuart.
    .
    I’m sure there will be one for me when I misstep. Just be gentle, please! My ribs are delicate and I can’t stand pain…

  • husein11

    Why would you find it offensive? Obviously you’re an islamaphobe and you don’t believe in freedom of religion or speech.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    SZ~
    Excellent rebuke. Though I would have preferred to see a more broad skewering of his entire thesis.
    .
    When he says this:
    Whereas conservative theory lends itself almost intrinsically to racist conclusions, for reasons I explained in the first essay, liberal theory is generally egalitarian and intuitively antiracist. Liberal and left-leaning folks typically endorse notions of equality in both the political and economic realms. Likewise, most all on the left outwardly reject the attribution of biological or cultural superiority to racial groups. And those on the left are quick to acknowledge and decry the systemic injustices that have been central to the creation of racial disparities in the United States.
    I would hope that a fair-minded individual such as yourself would reject such a position…

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Response to 3.11

  • jxbonehide

    This is awesome! The left has become unhinged in what now appears to be their new misguided dream of insuring that a mosque is built near the site of the horrific attack by Muslim hijackers that resulted in the death of almost 3000 people on September 11, 2001. (This fight in favor of religion has to be a first for many on the left.) The leaders on the left have become so unhinged, in fact, that Speaker Pelosi forgot about that other pesky part of the First Amendment dealing with “freedom of speech,” and she’s now asking for an investigation of those who oppose building a mosque near the site of the 9/11 attack.

    Over and over again, the posters on this site keep trying to make this an evil-Republican issue to salve their own wacky sensibilities because they can’t face the simple fact that their crazy notions about the right to do something and what is right to do, are so far out of the mainstream. It is clear that most normal Americans think that putting a mosque near the site of the attack by Muslims hijackers that resulted in the death of almost 3000 people would be insensitive and in very poor taste. Americans aren’t denying anyone their Constitutional Rights; they are simply asking for just a touch of rationality and sensitivity from those who want to build the mosque and asking that they not build it in the shadow of Ground Zero.

    Again, Americans, both Democrats and Republicans, aren’t a bunch of religious bigots, we’ve just got a lot more common sense than many people on this site who would demand tolerance and sensitivity from others, but can’t see the wisdom of it in this case.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    SZ~
    Excellent rebuke. Though I would have preferred to see a more broad skewering of his entire thesis.
    .
    When he says this:
    Whereas conservative theory lends itself almost intrinsically to racist conclusions, for reasons I explained in the first essay, liberal theory is generally egalitarian and intuitively antiracist. Liberal and left-leaning folks typically endorse notions of equality in both the political and economic realms. Likewise, most all on the left outwardly reject the attribution of biological or cultural superiority to racial groups. And those on the left are quick to acknowledge and decry the systemic injustices that have been central to the creation of racial disparities in the United States.
    I would hope that a fair-minded individual such as yourself would reject such a position. It’s an inconceivable and baseless assertion that stretches the bounds of political theory far beyond their conceptual limits and into the realm of psychological and socialized tribalism.

  • michaelfury
  • stuartzechman

    Well, I think that “conservative theory lends itself almost intrinsically to racist conclusions” is incoherent, at least without reading whatever “essay” he references, and I believe this guy:
    .
    http://columbiaconservative.blogspot.com/2010/07/reprint-on-conservatism-and-race.html
    .
    I don’t think that conservatism, with its reverence for orthodoxy, tradition and culturally inherited “knowledge” is the best ideology for changing people into working better with each other, but it may be better at predicting and practically dealing with how people actually are, not as we’d like them to be when it comes to these things. I could be wrong about that, however. I haven’t given it enough thought.
    .
    This “most all on the left outwardly reject the attribution of biological or cultural superiority to racial groups” is back-handed compliment, as the word “outwardly” makes us liberals all hypocrites, apparently.
    .
    He’s a Stalinist, basically, just not of the class-theory variety (he calls them “vulgar Marxists,” because they’re not as refined in their vicious fixation on group identity constructions).
    .
    Like I said, his theories and his methods are totalitarian.

  • http://myweeklylisten.wordpress.com rickterp

    I feel like I’ve seen this movie before. It was called the Terry Schiavo case. Republicans were all hot and bothered about it and Democrats were desperately wishing the whole issue would go away immediately. But an odd thing happened: the longer the issue played out and people had a chance to reflect on it, the more people realized that the Republicans were nuts — getting government to intervene in what should be a family issue. Here, this seems like an issue of local zoning that isn’t an issue outside of Manhattan. Are the Republicans going to overreach on this one too?

  • http://myweeklylisten.wordpress.com rickterp

    So, how big is the sensitivity zone? Is four blocks away OK? Or is all of lower Manhattan off limits?

    What about mosques that are currently in the sensitivity zone? Is it insensitive of them to stay in the area?

    What about any Muslims who might work in the buildings that will be built on the WTC site? Will it be insensitive of them to pray to Mecca during their workday at the WTC site?

    And is it insensitive for a strip club to operate in the sensitivity zone? Or is that OK because (as far as we know) none of the 9/11 terrorists were strippers?

  • vintel7

    The mosque is hardly a controversy as freedom of religion is guaranteed for all by the Constitution. The media is stupid. They believe and have been running with the republican’s false narrative…that is that republicans will make big gains in November. Actually, the real experts are predicting otherwise. Americans are not stupid. Americans remember who started this Great Recession. Americans know which party it was that spent the USA into bankruptcy and ownership by China….due to its 2 unnecessary stupid wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The republicans are counting on Americans being as stupid as they are. (republican IQs are 30-40% lower on average than Dems.) The republicans are counting on Americans having sudden amnesia. NO WAY WILL REPUBS WIN IN NOVEMBER. Dems have more money. Dems have President Obama. Dems have legislative achievments. Repubs has nothing and have done nothing.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Husein,
    .
    I do not know if your comments were directed at me, but, the general sentiment of New Yorkers has been for years now that a small bunch of very evil people who claimed to be acting in the name of a religion but were, actually just psychopaths looking for an excuse to be extremely violent and New York should defy the tiny terrorist minority by getting back to business as usual.
    .
    Putting office space or, possibly, housing and retail on Ground Zero is getting back to business as usual.
    .
    Putting any house of worship – any – or even using the entire space for a secular memorial would not be business as usual.
    .
    Since Muslims, Catholics, Baptists, Jews, Buddhists, Orthodox Christians, Hindus… every faith under the sun had lost people in that tragedy, putting one faith’s house of worship would be giving the finger to all other faiths.
    .
    By the same token, with Catholic, Episcopalian Churches, a Synagogue other houses of worship already nearby and zoning always permitting houses of worship there banning any other faith from having a house of worship in that neighborhood would be like giving that other religion the finger.
    .
    I do not find it one percent appropriate to give Sufi Muslims nor any other reasonable sect of Islam the finger.
    .
    I would, also, be offended if the battlefield of Gettysburg be taken from being a historical site to become a Catholic Church (the religion I have an unreasonable bias towards supporting since I was raised Catholic).
    .
    The land of Ground Zero will be primarily used to return to business as usual with a section reserved for a non-denominational/secular memorial. From there everybody can go to any house of worship they wish to go to after honoring the dead.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Terry Schiavo is an excellent example.
    .
    Doctor after doctor confirmed that nothing besides the small part of her brain stem controlling respiration were still functioning so that there was nobody left to save since brain cells do not, after dying, come back to life more than dead people get out of their graves.
    .
    The shortened, inaccurate description was: Liberals want a paralyzed woman to starve to death.
    .
    Well, of course I, like most Americans are extremely against that.
    .
    The longer story was that her own doctors and her husband were ready to let go of a woman who was already brain dead in every reasonable definition of brain dead and unable to ever under any imaginable circumstance gain consciousness but her parents, after many years, were in denial and had grabbed national support from Conservatives.
    .
    The short, false story being told by Republicans now is: Muslims want to build ON Ground Zero not allowing space for anybody else to mourn nor to resume business as usual.
    .
    The longer and more accurate story is that not very close to Ground Zero, not en route to Ground Zero and not in sight of Ground Zero the most liberal and anti-violent sect of Muslims called the Sufis who already have a house of worship not far away want to build a cultural center to build mutual understanding for Muslim Americans with the rest of our nation.
    .
    In both cases the soundbite will make people jump to one conclusion while the long story will lead to the opposite conclusion.
    .
    Excellent example!

  • libertyislife

    As a 72 yr. old American, I have voted in every election since eligible to do so. I did not vote for Obama as I did/do not trust him as a patriotic American. I read his two books and researched him and came to the conclusion that he was very much influenced by his Islamic relatives, particularly when he lived in Indonesia, a muslim country, with his mother and Islamic step father and his father who visited him there for a month. He refers to his father often even though his father deserted him and they spent very very little time together. Obama said on this year’s U.S. census that he was African-American, black, not mixed race. That should tell you something. His white part of the family raised him, kept him in clothes and food, etc. yet he seems to have missed this. I truly believe this man is so arrogant, egotisical and feels so much self worth that he is useless in the office of president. He is definitely pro-middle east and pro-muslim. He is not a true American by any sense of the word. He did not spent his growing up time in mainland America and should absolutely not be the leader of our country as he is destined to destroy us.

  • bobcn1

    Brilliant post! Thank you.

  • davetoomey

    Fortunately, that is just your bigoted opinion instead of facts, and is disagreed on by the majority of voters who elected him and will probably re-elect him in 2012, despite the fact that he has been more centrist than he campaigned.

  • herby002

    @jxbonehide:
    “”… Speaker Pelosi forgot about that other pesky part of the First Amendment dealing with “freedom of speech,” and she’s now asking for an investigation of those who oppose building a mosque near the site of the 9/11 attack.”"

    I missed that. Please supply a reference to prove your statement; a quote from Pelosi would even better.

    Waiting…

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