Obama’s Brave Stand

Comment :
President Obama said on Friday 8/13/2010 , in the White House dinner celebrating Ramadan, that ‘I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country.” I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. Ground zero is, indeed, hallowed ground,” But, he continued: “This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are.”
With the present hostility, unheard of before 9/11 , of some Americans and in the world towards Islam , all pray now that President Barack Obama will very soon publicly disclose to all Americans and to the world ,the names of the criminals who are ultimately responsible for , as well as the complete facts about , the evil crimes of 9/11 ,the two wars that followed in Iraq and Afghanistan – both citing these evil crimes as the reason, the following devastation that these wars have caused in these countries ,the hundreds or thousands of Americans, Canadians and other NATO heroes killed or wounded ,the thousands or millions of Muslims and others who were killed, wounded ,displaced……in the world ,the resulting prejudice towards the Islamic faith of some in USA and in the world, and the very serious economic problems that followed in the USA and in the world. Those criminals of 9/11 are very likely also responsible for the present rig explosion disaster and for the human, ecological , environmental and economic devastation it caused.
Tharwat Fawzi

Give me a break. This is not a “brave” stand. This was a calculated speech, on a Friday, secure in the knowledge that the liberal media will eat it up.
.
The bottom line is that this speech has been woefully misreported. Nowhere in that speech does Barack Obama state unequivocally that the mosque is a good idea. Nowhere. What he’s trying to do is subtly shift the debate to the First Amendment from the propriety of the mosque. And he obviously can count on people like Michael Crowley to carry his water for him.
.
The issue of whether the First Amendment requires that these people be allowed to construct a mosque on land touched by the 9/11 attacks is wholly separate from whether it’s a good idea or not.
.
Here’s a quote from Peter King, of course, not mentioned in here by the Swampland journos that nails it:

“It is insensitive and uncaring for the Muslim community to build a mosque in the shadow of ground zero,” he said in a written statement.

“While the Muslim community has the right to build the mosque, they are abusing that right by needlessly offending so many people who have suffered so much,” he said. “The right and moral thing for President Obama to have done was to urge Muslim leaders to respect the families of those who died and move their mosque away from ground zero. Unfortunately, the president caved into political correctness.”
.
And real bravery would have been to challenge his audience on the point.

Now let the political fallout begin.
.
You know what would be great? If the media didn’t step back to mark their scorecards on yet another political fight, but did their f*cking job to educate the public about what’s really going on here.
.
This isn’t a “Ground Zero mosque” no matter how dutifully the media regurgitates the framing of right-wing bigots. It’s just not. It’s two blocks away in a former Burlington Coat Factory outlet. And yet the media keeps fanning the flames here by calling it the “Ground Zero mosque.”
.
Also, the imam behind the project is a leading moderate figure in his faith, someone that George W. Bush tapped to lead outreach to the Middle East after 9/11. The critics are acting like he’s some suspect figure who’s somehow linked to the attacks of 9/11, when he’s the exact opposite.
.
One side is spreading lies and sh!tting on the Constitution, the other is standing up for a core American value of religious liberty. Instead of clucking disapprovingly about the political fallout the president might face for standing up for the Constitution and refusing to be cowed by liars and traitors to that Constitution, maybe the media could point out the facts here?

The president “caved in” to political correctness? That’s incredibly stupid, even for an idiot like Peter King. (And remember, Peter King is someone who has actual, documented evidence of his support of terrorists — the IRA.)
.
The president stood by the Constitution of the United States of America. And if he and any of the other right-wing bigots out there don’t like religious freedom, they can move to Saudi Arabia.

Well, Kevin, when you’re up in arms about the arrest of 5 Christians for leafletting in Dearborn, I’ll take seriously your concerns about the First Amendment.
.
“Moderate” hardly describes this Rauf character. People who yap about America being an accomplice of 9/11 aren’t “moderates”. You should get your facts straight first. And that Bush did something is by no means a guarantor that it was the right thing to do.
.
Third, I don’t do drugs, but I bet what you’re smoking is pretty good stuff. This blog post by Crowley is praising Obama. Get that right.
.
Finally, the bottom line is that the land upon which the mosque of reconciliation is being built was hit by debris from the terrorist attack. Calling it part of Ground Zero isn’t the stretch you make it out to be.

Obama has done something very much in defiance of public opinion and very much in line, it seems, with what is in his heart.

Also very much in line with the Constitution, which used to matter.

@Kevin:You know what would be great? If the media didn’t step back to mark their scorecards on yet another political fight, but did their f*cking job to educate the public about what’s really going on here.

Think of the consequences of such behavior, man! Facts (and the Constitution) have a liberal bias, so doing what you say might cause O’Reilly or Hannity or Hewitt to say mean things. Mean. Things. Get a grip.

What he’s trying to do is subtly shift the debate to the First Amendment from the propriety of the mosque.

That’s because the First amendment is the only issue at stake. The government does not have the right to interfere with legitimate religious expression.

Any discussion unrelated to that simple fact is irrelevant hand-waving.

Although I’m skeptical that your typical Muslim will be moved more by this controversy than by, say, the nearly 200,000 U.S. troops still occupying Afghanistan and Iraq, not to mention the continued operation of the Guantanamo Bay prison camp more than six months after Obama vowed it would be closed.
.
Good job, supergenius.
.
I guess we might as well bomb Iran though, because Israel’s gonna do it anyway.

Good grief Kevin. There are two issues here–one is the propriety of the mosque, an issue uncommented upon by Barack Obama and whether government has the right to stop its construction. If Obama were really brave, he would have dealt with the propriety issue. He did not. Yet sycophants like Crowley are saying that he did.

Really Paul, the propriety is not an issue. I don’t think even Obama goes that far.

I see nothing wrong with Obama’s backing the plans for Cordoba House. As a matter of fact, he swore that he would uphold the constitution.
.
And the First Amendment is part of the constitution, isn’t it?
.
Clearly, despite the right wing’s efforts to focus on the “appropriateness” of the situation, the First Amendment is the law of land…

So the next time Klansmen decide to march, I assume that you will state that the propriety of their views is out of bounds for criticism.

By the way, guys, note how Obama clarified his remarks today:
.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/08/obamas-support-of-moque-near-ground-zero-draws-strong-reactions/1
.
Um Mr. Crowley, what exactly does “all in” mean?

A blog post by someone who worked in Lower Manhattan on September 11, 2001 and who has just moved back there. Her perspective is interesting.

http://www.hudsonette.com/2010/08/stuck-on-stupid-about-ground-zero.html

Well, Kevin, when you’re up in arms about the arrest of 5 Christians for leafletting in Dearborn, I’ll take seriously your concerns about the First Amendment.
.
I’m an ACLU member and, yes, we’re up in arms about the arrest of the Dearborn evangelists.
.
http://www.pressandguide.com/articles/2010/07/27/news/doc4c4f0ed1eba80981771841.txt
.
What was done to them was wrong, and liberals and civil libertarians like myself and the rest of the ACLU are standing up for their First Amendment rights.
.
What about you? Do you only believe in religious liberty when it’s a religion you like?

Klansmen?
.
No, the proper comparison here would be that if there were some moderate white Christians, and some left-wing kooks asserted they were followers of Timothy McVeigh and they shouldn’t be allowed to build a church in Oklahoma City because of that.

What’s pathetic is that standing up for a clear an unequivocal application of the First Amendment is “a brave stand.”

There are churches, & there are all kinds of businesses, including bars, two strip clubs & a “sleazy” porn shop just as close to Ground Zero as is the planned Cordoba center, & nobody’s been “outraged” about those. If Sarah Palin & Newt Gingrinch want something to picket, they can go out & decry the “insensitive” in-your-faces churches near the site of the Mirrah Office Building which Christian extremist Timothy McVeigh bombed.

The opposition to the mosque is raw bigotry, inflamed by right-wing opportunists. Besides, as Mayor Bloomberg pointed out, there’s no a chance quashing the mosque because it was somehow “insensitive” would pass a court test. And, for the umpteenth time — as Joe Klein has repeatedly mentioned — you can’t even see the mosque from the Ground Zero site.

Everyone who opposes the mosque should be required to take a 9th-grade civics equivalency test. They’ll have to study for it, too, because right now, they’d fail.

The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com

Kevin, I’m didn’t mention the First Amendment issues inherent here, and I am not commenting on them. I don’t presume to know enough to have an intelligent position on the First Amendment and land use restrictions and how they would apply to this mosque.
.
I do recognize a poke in the eye though.
.
As for Dearborn, perhaps, just perhaps one may ask why Mr. Crowley isn’t asking Obama or Gibbs their opinion on the Dearborn leafletting. The MSM blew off that story.

Wow, you are dumb, constantweader. One can be opposed to an idea or a construction project or speech or what have you without believing that the government should intervene. I don’t support Nazis, Cindy Sheehan or any number of speakers in America, but I support their right to speak. I oppose the construction of the mosque, and I don’t know enough to support an opinion as to whether the government has the power to prevent it. I don’t need a civics test. You are conflating opposition to the mosque with supporting an effort to use the power of the state to stop it. Two very different things.
.
Perhaps you ought to retake the entire 9th grade.

First of all, Kevin, this Rauf character isn’t exactly moderate–or do you care to defend the “America is an accomplice to 9/11 statement”?
.
Second of all, that you are blind to the poke in the eye factor says it all. If some “moderate” militia group decided to open a center across from the Murrah building, I’d question their decency too.

Another example of his refusal to “listen to and be guided by the will of the American people”. Of course, as I am frequently reminded by my liberal friends, that was only a campaign promise and only a fool would believe those! Well, with 54% opposed and only 20% approving (rassmussen) and in NYC, itself, 52% opposed and 31% approving (quinnipiac), there is pretty strong evidence that our will was once again ignored. Democrats, thumbing their noses at the American public, do so at their own jeopardy. November is fast approaching and the anger and resentment continues to mount…..the end result should be quite interesting.

Have you noticed in some of my posts about Swampland, I’ve spoken out against more stringent monitoring.
.
On a first Amendment level, they have the right to say what they want. And I have the right to oppose it.
.
On an appropriateness front, some speech is acceptable, and some is not, as are certain actions.
.
However, to make your arguments stick, you have to invoke your opinion of what is appropriate or not without introducing religious bigotry into the equation.
.
Why?
.
But when that argument invokes stereotyping, or worse, the fomenting of hatred for any purpose, it reduces the arguments’ true value to near zero.
.
And everyone I’ve seen so far on that side of the propriety issue you are has indeed invoked some sort of racial and/or religious bigotry.
.
Your stand doesn’t surprise me. You have learned long ago that race baiting will not go unopposed or tolerated, and I commend you for refraining from doing so.
.
Still, even though you are entitled to your opinions, you are left with advocating for groups whose aims are less than stellar. Not a good situation, nor will it help do anything but worsen the image the right already has.
.
I’d try to pick better “heroes” spob…

“That’s because the First amendment is the only issue at stake. The government does not have the right to interfere with legitimate religious expression”

That certainly explains the hate crime laws and the hate speech codes from the bastions of free speech looney left college campuses

Finally, the bottom line is that the land upon which the mosque of reconciliation is being built was hit by debris from the terrorist attack.

Is that the measuring stick you’re using? Really? “Debris landed on it?” How much of New York City got debris on it? Is the whole city off limits?

“No, the proper comparison here would be that if there were some moderate white Christians, and some left-wing kooks asserted they were followers of Timothy McVeigh and they shouldn’t be allowed to build a church in Oklahoma City because of that”
=

More idiotic comparisons by the looney left. First, its the continued pathetic attempt to link and equate McVeigh killing 168 people in one bombing attempt to radical Muslims who have over many attempts killed thousands of Americans and continue to try.

But let’s amuse the sensitivity impaired left. If McVeigh followers (if there are any) wanted to build anything a few doors down from the site of the federal building, common decency should prevent it. But common decency is not high on the left list, at least not as high as appeasement.

And please spare us your constitutional arguments. Th government can if it wishes through various zoning orders and eminent domain stop the development or existence of any building anywhere.

Nope, earljr1, not so:
.
Read the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America!
.
Why do I keep bringing that pesky issue up?
.
Because the First Amendment trumps the “propriety” issue (it cannot be invoked!), and last I heard, it takes special elective procedures to overturn an Amendment to the Constitution.
.
This was done for two reasons:
.
1. To proscribe against untoward actions by a majority (the “Tyranny of the Majority” issue).
.
2. To proscribe against the government from taking unlawful actions in the face of political pressure.
.
Even if your polls are really accurate (see http://www.fivethirtyeight.com), which I doubt, for the above two reasons, your statement about “ignoring the will of the people” ignorant of fundamental US history and governance.
.
You see, our founding fathers had prepared for and have provided protections against people like you 230 years ago.
.
Try again…

Reading through the comments on this and the previous post on the Muslim community center, it is easy to determine the patriots, believers in the Constitution and Christian philosophy from those who choose to be dogmatic and less than Christian in their responses.

Obama’s Last Stand is more like it. Perhaps he is reading about Custer, and emulating what will happen to him in 2012.
.
Failures………..
.
Let’s see GITMO………still there and running as never before.
.
Iraq…………still there and not much of a change.
.
Afghanistan………War is still going on despite no headway or change.
.
Economy………still in the ditch, no jobs, no nothing, people are getting more and more angry.
.
Racial divisiveness………worst it has been in nearly 60 years.
.
One success………..Obama backs a mosque at ground zero.
.
What is success? Priceless, especially when you are a muslim yourself and basically tell most all Americans to go F-yourself, I’ll do and say whatever I want. I’m the President of the United States.

As a New Yorker my whole life, that is perfect.

I guess when you are a liberal now-a-days, you have to grasp at anything in order to justify as to the reason you voted for the biggest joke of a President this country has ever seen.
.
Perhaps with Obama affirming his new found love of the constitution and especially his love of the First Amendment for Freedom of Reglion we shall see an awakening of the liberals of this country and they revert back to more sane and rational discussions.
.
HA!! A fat chance on that one buddy boy!!
.
I wonder what his mentor Jeremiah Wright has to say? Could someone call up ‘ol Jere and ask him how he feels about it?
.
Did Saul Alinsky do any writing on this matter at all? Can Obama fall back on Alinsky as to what to do in these situations? Hillary? Can you help us out, you too are an Alinsky devotee!!!
.
But, maybe when Obama finishes the job of the radicals who infest the White House from the 1960′s. All his Socialist buddies and pals like Van Jones. They can create another big crisis of sorts to finish this country off once and for all. Perhaps then we can just abolish the constitution and implement the new Kenyan constitution where your rights are given to you by the Government and not by God Almighty. That way they can just willy-nilly take them away from you ANYtime they feel like it.
.
How about it my limey liberal friends? Isn’t that what you truly live for?

“McVeigh followers”
.
So are all Muslims are the followers of the 9/11 bombers?
.
That’s the big difference Freepy. All Muslims are not Muslim terrorists. It’s is only insensitive to build a mosque in NY if you paint an entire religion with label “terrorists’.
.
Al Queda isn’t building a mosque in NY. The Taliban isn’t building a mosque in NY. Muslims are. Learn the difference.

“But, maybe when Obama finishes the job of the radicals who infest the White House from the 1960′s.”
.
Hmmm. Just like Rand Paul, whom I believe is not a racist, the fact that you think this way is no surprise to me at all.
.
I wonder why…

I do know that a few months ago the teabaggers were having a lot of dialogue about the damage to their cause the spawning of another Timothy McVeigh would do to their cause.
.
There was no surprise when that dialogue began, whatsoever…

“Finally, the bottom line is that the land upon which the mosque of reconciliation is being built was hit by debris from the terrorist attack. Calling it part of Ground Zero isn’t the stretch you make it out to be.”
.
Actually, it is a stretch, considering that “debris” from two 110-story buildings fell over New Jersey, Brooklyn, Wall Street and other areas. Should all of them be off limits to any construction of any kind?
.
Second, spob, your citing of Peter King’s opinion is laughable, clearly showing you don’t live here or know anything about our city. He lives on Long Island; his district is the other side of Nassau County. Asking Peter King on what should be done in lower Manhattan is like asking Charles Rangel about the zoning of the Ikea in Hicksville. It’s just profoundly dumb.

So now, freeinpa, you’re switching sides and you’re an advocate of hate speech?!?!
.
After that severe pounding from me you received yesterday, I would say that you are really helping me out today.
.
You’re whining because you want to be free to engage in hate speech…

I so love it when freeinpa walks into walls…

“especially when you are a muslim yourself”
.
The President’s a ‘muslim’? Rusty’s a birther. Why am I not surprised?
.
Or is he just some sort of Manchurian ‘muslim’, Rusty, part of yet another of your paranoid world domination delusions? Or is he a secret ‘muslim’ bent on destroying the infidels in the west by instituting sharia as the law of the land?
.
What kind of ‘muslim’ is he, Rusty?

“How about it my limey liberal friends? Isn’t that what you truly live for?”
.
NewFreeRusty, last thread:
.
“How about this idea, why don’t you just simply eat $hit and die quickly???”
.
We know where you stand. Don’t we?

“One side is spreading lies and sh!tting on the Constitution, the other is standing up for a core American value of religious liberty.”
.
If there are any two concepts that are stricken from the modern “journalist’s” narrative dictionary they are “values” and “lies”. Recognizing them requires wisdom and integrity, covering politics requires neither.

Since Obama has finally come out of his muslim closet, I wonder where the polls will be on Monday or Tuesday so far as his likeablity ratings are concerned. When over 60% of Americans (that’s leaving the 30% who self-identify as libtards) I guess the numbers will continue to fall.
.
Step up Ladies and Gentlemen……….where she stops, nobody knows!!!!
.
My best guess….
.
Obama Approval ——————30%
.
Obama DISAPPROVAL ———70%

Seems to me that in general, the crackhead right seems to be taking a beating on the debate front.
.
It’s been truly enjoyable to watch how the frothy, smelly filth keeps washing up against the seawall represented by that pesky Constitution.
.
Our forefathers planned well…

I guess that since they can’t substitute opinion for facts, maybe they figure that they can substitute their unfettered imaginations…

Whoops.

I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding…

It appears that our president’s brave stand had no legs.
.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/prez-orders-one-from-column-and-one.html

You’re contorted and pessimistic mind baffles me, completely. Please try not to be such an angry person, then maybe you can have the “sane and rational” dialogue you claim to desire.

It seems you actually agree with Obamas backing of constitutional rights, then why all the negativity? Can you appreciate one act of decency, or does everything have a thick blanket of convoluted disgust stitched through its torso?

He never told anyone to go f themselves, it seems you’re helping institute a growing trend in that field though. Obama is promising to uphold religious freedom in this country, a topic which I cannot comprehend how anyone has had this much of an issue with. After all, if you’re an American, that’s what you were born to do along with protecting the many other freedoms we grant to each other.

“Let’s see GITMO………still there and running as never before.”
.
Except that there are prisoners being repatriated and no new prisoners being accepted. Reasonable ideas to shutdown GITMO and move prisoners were presented, cowardice in Congress shut them down.
.
“Iraq…………still there and not much of a change.”
.
Unfortunately this is pretty correct.
.
“Afghanistan………War is still going on despite no headway or change.”
.
Unfortunately, pretty correct.
.
“Economy………still in the ditch, no jobs, no nothing, people are getting more and more angry.”
.
Except for a successful stimulus package that kept things from running entirely off the rails. Should have been larger, so I guess you could call the inability to get an adequate stimulus package passed a failure. Getting is it passed at all was a major success.
.
“Racial divisiveness………worst it has been in nearly 60 years.”
.
This is Obama’s fault… how? He showed up for work on Inauguration Day. Much of what’s he’s done since has been declared racist by fringe and high profile conservative commentators. So I guess it’s Obama’s failure simply for being black?
.
“One success………..Obama backs a mosque at ground zero.”
.
And healthcare reform, and normalization of formal relations after years of disregarding our allies and threatening perceived enemies, and the stimulus package, and passing financial reform, and starting to move the tax system back to where it should with the wealthiest shouldering the greatest portion of the burden.

“when you are a muslim yourself and basically tell most all Americans to go F-yourself”

And there it is. why is there more racial and religious division in the US now? BS like this. Conservative fear mongering, refusal to accept that Obama is NOT a Muslim and refusal to accept that he WAS born in the US. Why do you guys continue to traffic in these lies? Because you guys see stoking racist fear and religious distrust is an easier path back into the majority than coming up with actual ideas, based in fact, and selling them to the public. Make yourselves a realistic viable alternative to the Democrats. You’d be amazed at how well people might respond.

I don’t know, shep.
.
What I would say is this:
.
If you have an ace in your hand (Amendment I), why play the king?

Wow even Digby is slapping the wonder boy upside the head. Imagine that!!

I’m laughing at these right wing morons who can’t get more sanctimonious about ‘honoring the victims’ and ‘hallowed ground’ particularly when the community center is on a rather ugly commercial strip full of discount outlets and Duane Reades. Do they have any idea what’s planned for actual Ground Zero, not just neighborhood adjacent? Office space and a shopping complex. Yes, folks, we’re honoring the victims by building Foot Lockers, Gaps and a Krispy Kreme on top of so-called sanctified land.
.
All this fake phony concern for the victims is just a screen for religious — and let’s be honest, racial — bigotry. Election year politics means it’s that time to demagogue brown and gay people, especially if they dress funny. But an Ann Taylor where 3000+ people met their doom? That’s totally not an insult because white Christian people shop there!

Striking but lovely rememberance. I would think we would welcome all signs of civility back to that area.

Maybe Obama doesn’t have an opinion about the specific site because it’s none of his business. He’s federal; this is a local city issue, a zoning issue, and we’re pretty tired of loudmouths trying to foist their opinion where they don’t belong.
.
Bloomberg, as mayor and someone whose business it actually is, made his speech; it was pretty on target. Manhattanites agree. The community board voted overwhelmingly to move ahead.
.
This is an easy issue to demagogue when you don’t live in Manhattan, surrounded by rural or suburban whites. But those of us in NYC (minus SI) are around Muslims everyday. They are our neighbors, our co-workers, our friends, our fellow commuters. A mosque is no big deal to us. Islam is just another religion. We are ok with this plan, so everyone else, just mind your own business.

The ‘will of the people’ of Manhattan are in favor of the planned community center. There goes your argument, earl. Tell you what: you don’t have to look at or think about the center ever again. Should be easy, considering you live in Florida.

“If you have an ace in your hand (Amendment I), why play the king?”
.
That’s a fine self-serving political argument but if you haven’t the political courage to call out the liars, demagogues, racists and xenophobes, corrupting the social fabric of your own country, you’re a not much of a leader. Certainly not for the “free world” of the early 21st Century.

I don’t think that occasion was appropiate for calling out the liars, etc. any more than he did.

“Wow even Digby is slapping the wonder boy upside the head. Imagine that!!”
.
Liberals such as Digby (Greenwald, Krugman, Atrios, Moulitsas, etc.) have been Obama’s most reliable and harshest critics from the get go. That’s because, unlike the wingers like you, their criticisms are intelligent and grounded in reality. You probably had trouble seeing it while you were fellating Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck.

“I don’t think that occasion was appropiate for calling out the liars, etc. any more than he did.”
.
As if there been some shortage of occasions?

In a way, you’re right, shep, but in another, maybe not so.
.
Some of what nibbly said had occurred to me too.
.
The problem with Obama doing as you suggested is fundamentally harvesting a polarizing firestorm that would hurt him politically.
.
You’ve seen how much damage they have been able to inflict even when they have nothing to go on, so I can understand Obama’s reluctance. In addition, we both know that the right wing demagogues out there are lusting to show that Obama is a Black president and not one for us all.
.
In a saner day and age, I would agree with you, and you actually are right, but what I would do is to look at the politics of South Africa shortly after the first majority led government took office.
.
I guess if the statement itself was self serving, then my explanation can also be looked at as evasive…

The beginning of Digby’s post was a quote from Politico, which I will give the weight I always give things from Politico.
.
She ended with this quote from an essay by Chris in DC which I think is also worth reading.
.

The Cordoba House, in other words, is not only separate and distinct from the identity and ideology of al Qaeda and the 9/11 terrorists, it is a direct repudiation (“refudiation,” for Sarah Palin) of them. So the only way that someone could ever confuse the Cordoba Initiative with radical, militant Islam is if that person thought that Islam itself was inseparable from terrorism or terrorist sympathies. That, to me, is highly illuminating. And if a very small handful of radicals who call themselves believers in a religion can hijack that entire religion to stand for the terrible things the radicals do and believe, then, well, Christianity apparently stands for the murder of doctors, the preachings of David Koresh, the beliefs and deeds of Tim McVeigh, the goals of the Huntaree militia….

Before Rusty, I mean sh!thead jumps for joy, it might be worthy to point out that we also have problems with Obama’s leadership from time to time.
.
But one thing we don’t do is appeal to hatred in an attempt to overwhelm the dialogue…

I notice that Rusty [sh!thead] used a black phrase to describe Digby’s actions.
.
We all know Rusty, and anybody else would garner no comment whatsoever, but I might venture that the penchant for fomenting racial hatred, even when buried, is visible on the surface from time to time…

You’ve seen how much damage they have been able to inflict even when they have nothing to go on, so I can understand Obama’s reluctance. In addition, we both know that the right wing demagogues out there are lusting to show that Obama is a Black president and not one for us all.”
.
Which means he has nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking it head on and trying to rally the public, not just for him but also for bedrock American values. The corporate press won’t call out the liars and xenophobes and, in remaining vacuum, the public is left to figure it out for themselves. Obviously, looking at the abysmal state of public opinion, they are not equipped to do so. We need leadership from somewhere and, if that isn’t Barack Obama’s job description, I really am living on the wrong planet.

First of all, Kevin, this Rauf character isn’t exactly moderate
.
If he’s not a moderate, why did the Bush administration select him to go on a speaking tour in the Middle East to promote peace?
.
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/adam_serwer_archive?month=08&year=2010&base_name=more_on_raufs_radicalism
.
Second of all, that you are blind to the poke in the eye factor says it all. If some “moderate” militia group decided to open a center across from the Murrah building, I’d question their decency too.
.
And if al Qaeda wanted to set up shop across the street, your comparison would be apt. But it’s not.
.
This Muslim community has lived in lower Manhattan since the 1980s. The local zoning board approved their plans to turn a boarded-up Burlington Coat Factory into a community center — for all residents, not just Muslims — and people in Manhattan supported it by a bare majority.
.
But outsiders like Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin don’t like it, and we should scrap religious freedom in this country because of their bigotry? Bullsh!t.

Shepherd, you’re embarrassing yourself. I second Ivy in the time and place were inappropriate, nor is it the President’s job to pick fights with idiots.
.
And you might not think so, but you sound like you’re blowing some of Obama’s ‘harshest critics’ as much as newfreedom is fellating Beck and Rush. You both idolize the wrong people.

As for Dearborn, perhaps, just perhaps one may ask why Mr. Crowley isn’t asking Obama or Gibbs their opinion on the Dearborn leafletting. The MSM blew off that story.
.
They probably blew off that story because the Dearborn leafletting violated a law — a stupid law, in my opinion, and one that needs to be overturned — but a law nonetheless.
.
The Manhattan group has broken no law at all — and in fact, are simply trying to exercise their rights to religious liberty like all of their fellow American citizens — and the right doesn’t want to let them. (Is anyone saying the Dearborn group can’t have a church in Dearborn? No?)
.
In any case, the answer here is simple — the media hasn’t followed that story closely because their assignment editors (Sarah Palin, Politico) haven’t told them to cover it yet. As soon as she complains and the sheep hear her, it’ll be a national issue.

Thomas Kean and the 9/11 commission made similar comments to the imam. They are not terrorists that wish us harm.

I guess when you are a liberal now-a-days, you have to grasp at anything in order to justify as to the reason you voted for the biggest joke of a President this country has ever seen.
.
What are you talking about? No liberals voted for Bush.
.
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0701/nations-leading-presidential-scholars-bush-worst-president-modern-era-5th-worst-history/

I understand your sentiment, shep.
.
You know I do by everything I’ve commented on from day one.
.
I am not prepared to throw Obama overboard for it, and you may even be right, and I wrong, but these political times and situations are uncharted waters, which is why I referred you to the political situation in South Africa just after the fall of apartheid.
.
Believe me, there were some hideous “crocodiles*” that swam in the political ponds in South Africa, and even by my standards, were never held accountable, except to be required to confess and renounce their transgressions in exchange for a pardon.
.
*Go peruse the “Angry African on the Loose” blog. I haven’t been there for a couple years, so maybe it’s not there anymore, or completely changed in character. But if it is anything like used to be, AA provides an excellent and very clear window into the mechanics and politics of South Africa. Check it out….

“Which means he has nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking it head on and trying to rally the public, not just for him but also for bedrock American values. The corporate press won’t call out the liars and xenophobes and, in remaining vacuum, the public is left to figure it out for themselves.”
.
Shepherd, do you not get it? There is nothing for Obama to take ‘head on.’ The plans were approved, the mayor is on board. The community center is getting built. There is no legal or community hurdle. Obama should just sit back and let it happen.
.
We won the fight, dude. Relax.

If McVeigh followers (if there are any) wanted to build anything a few doors down from the site of the federal building, common decency should prevent it.
.
Right, and if the Cordoba people were “followers” of Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, then you’d have a point.
.
But Rauf is Bin Laden’s worst enemy — he preaches that one can be a devoted Muslim and live peacefully in western countries. There’s a reason George W. Bush sent him on a speaking tour across the Middle East — he was proof that Bin Laden’s claim that America hated all Muslims was a lie.
.
Until now, of course. Gingrich, Palin and idiots like you are playing right into Bin Laden’s hands. Now he can say, “See, this really is a religious war between all Muslims and the West. America’s talk of religious freedom is a lie, and they hate all Muslims.”
.
Congratulations. You’ve managed to p!ss on the Constitution and help the terrorists at the same time.

“Since Obama has finally come out of his muslim closet…”

Yeah, I knew that would be the reaction wing-nuts would have first and foremost when they heard about his speech. You could replace the word mosque with synagogue and his speech wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow but using the same logic, America was founded on freedom of speech and freedom of religion, to support a Muslim venture must mean that he’s finally betraying his hidden Muslim roots. Despite the fact there is literally no evidence that he’s a Muslim and he’s been castigated by many of these same people attending a Christian church with Reverend Wright, a Christian minister. So he’s a Christian radical Muslim radical anti-semitic, anti-Christian terrorist sympathizer. there’s no conflicting ideas there if you’re a conservative who dislikes Obama enough that the ends justify the means. It’s like the opposition to healthcare reform. Any argument against is OK, regardless if today’s argument completely contradicts yesterday’s argument because we’re just not comfortable with a worldly black man in the White House and whatever it takes to stop him is fine because he’s scary and foreign.

How does anyone outside of Manhattan get worked up about this?
.
I *almost* think it is all pretend outrage.
.
All so fake.

Whatever you do, don’t tell these idiots that the Millennium Hilton is literally across the street from the WTC site.
.
By the wingers’ logic, there are people having sex and going to the toilet right there on Ground Zero. How dare they!
.
And seriously, there’s a strip club closer to the WTC site than the Burlington Coat Factory building is. Why don’t they go protest the Ground Zero Strip Club?

What is with the sensitivity thing with the right? Do we call you Bleeding Hearts now?
.
So 68% of Americans disprove of the Mosque, it isn’t an electable issue.
.
Just like a neighbor, when someone moves next door you can get along, not get along and ignore each other, or you can move.

“By the wingers’ logic, there are people having sex and going to the toilet right there on Ground Zero. How dare they!”
.
Isn’t that what got Bernie Kerik in so much trouble?

Paul, that comment was the reason to keep reading all these! Excellent.

There’s nothing in his clarification that contradicts or softens the statement he made last night. Last night he said they have a right to build there as long as it’s done in accordance with local laws and they shouldn’t be denied simply because they’re Muslim because that’s against the principles this nation was founded upon. He didn’t take a side beyond saying they should be discriminated against based on their religion. Anyone who thinks they shouldn’t be able to build there simply because they’re Muslim doesn’t get what this country is supposed to be all about. And let’s not loose sight of one fact: on 9/11 we weren’t attacked by Muslims. We were attacked by radical terrorists who used a distorted reading of Islam to justify their attack. It’s not a subtle distinction, just a distinction that the fear-mongering right chooses to overlook in their fight to regain power.

I’ve been in that strip club, and frankly, spob and Rusty could use some time there too. Staring at a nice rack might improve their dispositions a bit. They can ‘honor’ the victims with a $20 lap dance.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/
.
TPM addresses Politicos usual hysterical response to Obama’s expansion of his remarks on the community center.
.
Leave it to Politico to gin up controversy where none exists.

The right wing has considered doing away with parts of the 14th amendment, eliminating the 17th amendment, expanding the 2nd, and futzing around with the first. Any others anyone can think of that they find objectionable. These guys are the strict constructionists?

“You know I do by everything I’ve commented on from day one.
.
I am not prepared to throw Obama overboard for it, and you may even be right, and I wrong, but these political times and situations are uncharted waters…”
.
I get where you’re coming from 53. But from my point of view, Obama is the political leader of my country, not a fellow frat brother. My only loyalty to him as my president is to be scrupulously honest in my criticism of him (the opposite of the lying, slanderous traitors on the right) not a left-wing authoritarian followers who can’t tolerate any criticism of their leader, no matter how fair or honest. Again, if he can’t even argue against the base elements of the society, who are successfully dragging us into very troubled waters, he hasn’t the courage to be much of a leader, no less a transformational one. And if you want to talk about the political view alone, by remaining mostly silent about the right’s traitorous immorality, he looks like either he hasn’t the courage of his convictions, or he has no convictions at all.

“There’s nothing in his clarification that contradicts or softens the statement he made last night.”
.
I’m sorry, but he went from taking a courageous and principled stand squarely against the religious bigots, to mostly agreeing with them. That’s quite a softening in my book.

They’re strict reconstrustionists. They know what the writers of the constitution meant, even if the writers themselves didn’t. They’re just clarifying it so that when they put on their costumes and hold up their little signs they look serious. After all, the writers of the constitution didn’t have Beck, Limbaugh, Palin and Bachman to tell them what to think.

I’m skeptical that your typical Muslim will be moved more by this controversy than by, say, the nearly 200,000 U.S. troops still occupying Afghanistan and Iraq, not to mention the continued operation of the Guantanamo Bay prison camp more than six months after Obama vowed it would be closed.

That’s a rather unflattering view of Muslims. Personally, I think they’re smart enough to separate the foreign policy of a particularly sociopathic regime from the widespread anti-Muslim bigotry of the American public, and be more concerned with the latter. The precipitous plunge of Barack Obama’s popularity among Muslims as he has continued to embrace or even double-down on those hideous policies suggests that they differentiate quite well.

Thanks apr for posting Josh’s response to the Politico tripe.

I teed that up perfectly for you, Paul. Nicely done.

@ freeinpa @ 6.5~
.
“Th government can if it wishes through various zoning orders and eminent domain stop the development or existence of any building anywhere.”
.
That, also, is my understanding
.
But I thought that, in order to do so, they have to meet some standards, and I don’t think that “insensitivity” (or, as spob suggests, “a poke in the eye”) is one of them.
.
Or am I incorrect?

SW, I agree with you. It was a backtrack. I guess you don’t drink the Kool-Aid.

There is a law, the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act, that prohibits government from burdening religious activity through land use restrictions, unless there is a ‘compelling state interest’ to do so and that interest is achieved with the least restrictive means possible.

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/adam_serwer_archive?month=08&year=2010&base_name=when_we_said_religious_freedom

Oh, I agree with that assessment too.
.
You have to be able to see the leaves for the forest, spob…

I really don’t give a damn what you people who have already commented think of me but I have always tried to defend the President..that is until his declaration on letting the Mosque be built…It is a discredit to the 3000 plus citizens who perished on 9/11. and now even today Europe is being threatened for their own 9/11/ Has the president forgotten what happened.. Is he truly an American or just wearing a disguise..I will not have to think about my next vote should he run again. Sorry mr president..I could never honor you after this/ You have just giving the Muslims what they wanted. Another slap in the face to all Americans. Im sure they are shouting we have the president on our side.

“I can think of one motive behind Obama’s position beyond It’s The Right Thing, and that is his mission of reconciling America’s image with the Muslim world.”

Heres another one, the unemployment figures and state of the economy.

thanks, lizzie
.
I like this quote from that article the best:
.
“The bill was introduced by Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch and passed with bipartisan support and was passed by unanimous consent in both houses”
.
If freeinpa now campaigns to impeach Hatch for fomenting that crime against the Constitution, and the entire “both Houses” at the time for collusion in doing so, I’d donate to that one, just to watch the circus.

He swore an oath to represent ALL of the people, nibbly, not just Manhattan. Personally, I could care less what you folks do, but I find the premise of “listening to and being guided”, a complete sham by Mr.Obama and public resentment to his folly, is quite significant. This whole “listen with a deaf ear” is certainly registering (as it well should) with the voting public. And btw, I do not live in Florida.

newfreedomblog @12 on “Obama Breaks His Silence”:
.
“we do have the right under the same First Amendment to question the motive behind building this mosque at its desired location. We have the right to speak out against it as intolerance by Muslims to build this mosque at this location. We have the right to speak out against building of this mosque based on the FACT it was Muslims who perpetrated the crime against our country and those citizens who died within the Twin Towers. We have the right to say to Muslims this is WRONG to build this mosque on this site.’
.
That is also my understanding.
.
It is also my understanding that you have the right to appear foolish, or worse, while doing so.
.
Good thing.

He swore an oath to represent ALL of the people, nibbly, not just Manhattan.
.
So he should deny one set of Americans their constitutional right to free exercise of religion because another set of Americans is getting their poor widdle fee-fees hurt about it?
.
I love how quickly conservatives reject all their talk about “states’ rights” and “individual liberty” as soon as it’s no longer convenient. Lovely principles you pretend to have there.

This image pretty much sums up the whole controversy:
.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/TacgJ.jpg

I like how earljr1 pretends that the issues relating to the Constitution and history of the United States just don’t exist.
.
I hear the cackling of geese. Oh, wait. That wasn’t cackling. Those were ducks…

The link to Washington’s letter at the bottom of the post is incredibly apt, it summarizes what it should be about:

To Bigotry No Sanction, to Persecution no Assistance – George Washington

What other kind of stand would you expect from Barrack Hussein Obama?

Obama is a closet Towel Head. In his ranty books he stated that if things got edgy, he would stand with the Muslims.

Great, just what we need. World War III is in progress between the Muslim World with its Sharia Law and “Death to the infidels” (you and me) teachings, and the West with its long heritage of Christian thought, and who are we stuck with…a president who sides with the enemy.

Oh, and another thing, speaking of Religioius tolerance, what do you think would happen if we announced that we were going to build a Christian Catheral next to the Rock in Mecca? Just line the bodies up here, if you can find enough left of them ,to bury.

Obama is all for religious tolerance…isn’t that great?
However, as a fine example of Muslim religious tolerance, over a dozen Christian Medical personnel were assasinated recently, simply on the thought, not the deed, that they intended to preach Christianity to the Muslims.

Thanks for your support Obama…you’re a real winner.

Oh, and is MIchelle Obama proud of the United States yet? That is when she can find time from Jet Setting to fabulous spots world wide with the kids and friends at tax payer expense, to think about it.

Thanks for opining that Obama represents ALL of the people, earl, since that means he represents Muslim-Americans too. And he did that quite well by standing up to bigots like yourself and making sure the minority get their rights.

(_).) pfffttt spppffffflllltttttffffttttssss pffffFFFFffffttt
.
There, a little context for your bizarro rant…

And wherever you live, earl, it’s not NYC, so why don’t you mind your own backyard.

Oh, brother, another birther. These people need to get lives.

The men with the white coats will be by to get you soon….

With barrage of heat-seeking Tweets, Gov. Sarah Palin assails Obama’s position by asking reasonable questions which a responsible President would answer with alacrity.

Good one ed. Don’t mind -53′s retort. That’s his version of slamming you into a wall. Be careful or he’ll unleash a barrage of “facts” at you. I’m sure he’s doing an endzone dance in mommy”s basement as we speak, after such a well thought out response.

2/3rds:
.
That’s one of those nasty thing about facts, isn’t it?
.
You see, you can’t ply your race baiting trade while I’m here, now can you.
.
Like freeinpa bemoaned, on another thread, you are being denied your right to indulge in hate speech. Waaah! But I’m really glad you hate me 2/3rds. It tells me that I’m hitting my targets.
.
Waaaah! Poor wittle 2/3rds. I’m so sowwy for you…

Oooh…NOW Obama is concerned about the Constitution. Since when did that old piece of paper become important to him? I thought it was a ‘living document’ to the progressive movement? Now it’s be cited as set in stone? Classic…

Why should POTUS even talk to Sarah Palin?
.
Quick! Clue me in before I…
.

.
…oh, sh!t. Too late. I could not resist!
.
Anyway, happy thanksgiving, powerpoultry…

Sucks, doesn’t it. That damned pesky Amendment I…

I heard someone also made noises about the 14th and 16th, too.
.
Maybe the emphasis is on the word constructionalist…

Can you imagine what the Constitution would be like if Beck, Limbaugh, Palin, and Krauthammer wrote it.
.
I know. I’m sorry. I’ll buy you both one of these really neat rubber keyboards…

And medicine…

La Mezquita – Great Mosque in Cordoba, Spain
The historical and semiotic themes behind the mosque and its name.

The Cordoba Initiative – or to the plan to name the mosque Cordoba House. My first question on hearing this was whether Americans are completely ignorant of history.

Cordoba was the seat of the caliphate established in what is now modern Spain after the Islamic invasion from North Africa in the 8th century A.D. The medieval occupation of Spain – “al-Andalus” – is considered by Islamic theorists to have been an inevitable step in the manifest destiny of Islam, and its eventual reversal through the lengthy European “Reconquista” a tragic but temporary triumph of the infidels.

The great mosque at Cordoba was built on the foundation of a Christian cathedral, and when Europeans retook Cordoba in the 13th century they turned the magnificent mosque back into a cathedral.

“Cordoba,” in Islamic symbolic terms, means Islamic rule in the West. It does not mean “coexistence,” unless coexistence is interpreted as referring to Islamic rule. Pamela Geller at Atlas Shrugs cites the article (original in Arabic) published by Iraqi-American Khudhayr Taher on 18 May, in which Taher explains the following:

We must note that a hostile and provocative name [Cordoba] has been chosen for this mosque…Choosing the name ‘Cordoba House’ for the mosque to be constructed in New York was not coincidental or random and innocent. It bears within it significance and dreams of expansion and invasion [into the territory] of the other, [while] striving to change his religion and to subjugate him…

There Muslim Cordobans did invade and conquer Spain, sell its inhabitants into slavery, provide a base for slaver raids into other parts of Europe, and rule by the sword in much of the caliphate.

And incidentally how many Westerners who think Islam is “just another religon” know that according to Shari’a Law:

Islam is NOT only a faith/religon it is a political party also with zero tolerance for dissent= Think Fascist Theocracy & a propensity for violence which is justified = Think ‘eye for an eye’ Old Testment = Literally.

It is the religious duty of every Muslim to institute Shari’a — the Law of Allah — worldwide. There is no such thing as tolerance of other religons, there is conversion or smite them down.

Unlike Christianity that emphasizes truthfulness, Muslims are allowed to deceive (lie to) non-Muslims if doing so protects and helps Islam.

Of course I am certain the Cordoba name is strictly a historical coincidence and not intended as symbolic disrespect and a victory monument over the west.

This is called the principle of Taqiyya.

The economy is bad? Yeah, I’ll grant you that, but I just a raise. On top of that, a local company recently had a job fair and I went to it thinking that maybe I’ll pick up some part time work because I’d love to remodel my house. There were only a handful of people present, only a handful when unemployment is so high? How can that be? Anyway, my second job will garner me nearly $200 for only 34 hours a week and its all going to bank to save for the remodel. Maybe after the remodel I’ll buy myself a new car.

Dear People of America,

Please do not be sidetracked by good-looking sound preachers.
The truth is:-

1) Show him the path, He’ll walk on it
2) Direct his way, He’ll find a place to say
3) Give him a place to live, He will build his nest
4) Let him build a nest, He will egg the chicks and multiplied a thousand fold.

-Is this all what you want after all?
-Or are you the one building up a nest for your followers to come under the mask of “religious freedom, religious tolerance & religious co-existence”?

A Free & Democratic country like the USA will tolerate in anything except trait and terrorism! Does terrorism (including 9/11) start with Violence & Terrorism in itself at the first place or does it come under a mask of all kind of good-looking reasoning?

Can someone (including Mr. President) guarantee that this approval and advocacy (defense) will lead the people of America into more peaceful country or worst nightmare (the dawn of terrorism in our nation) than 9/11? Are you taking full responsibility for the unpredictable future? Are you sure your answer to this is a BIG YES?

Its time for the people of America to alert, wake up and to distinguish and stand firm against propaganda, policy twists & politics. Where does our history leading us into?

Bonkers.
.
Just absolutely, teetotalling, fjarking bonkers…

It is really humorous when you liberals start sputtering and finger pointing in a very weak attempt to defend an egregious act. He DID NOT listen to the will of the American people and it will cost democrats , come November. It matters not how passionately you want that Mosque built, what DOES matter is how it is perceived by the American people and some polls have over 60% strongly opposed to that specific location. So dance your victory dance, if you will….the REAL tally can be assessed in November.

huh?

Even if that is the real purpose, does it have a chance of succeeding?
.
Did it succeed in Spain. with a much smaller geographic area than the USA, at a time when world population was much smaller, in a country with a population orders of magnitude less diverse ans vast as the USA, in a country without a heritage of democracy and without a Constitutional protection of the freedom of religion, and with, instead, a heritage of rule by violent coup?
.
So why would it succeed here?

it’s both, but i know that’s a hard concept to grasp. The principles are set in stone, but it can be amended and it is always interpreted by 9 people who have the authority to say that if the Constitution reads “green”, and everyone always thought that meant “green”, from now on, it must be be interpreted as meaning “red”
.
if it was only set in stone, corporations would not now have “free speech”. Please tell me you are against that particular interpretation of the Constitution.

2thirdsrocks@30.3
.
and your comment does a lot better?
.
I wonder if edismejahme read O’s books, or if he is relying on, say, Rush for his characterizations of what they say?
.
In the rest of his post, ed conducts logic that is constructed with what is known as “false equivalence” (or, put another way, he compares apples to oranges). How US citizens of Muslim faith are treated n the US cannot be demanded to be consistent with how US citizens are treated in other countries by Muslims. How Muslims would react to someone (and to whom does ed refer when he writes “we” in “If we announced . . .in Mecca”) building a Christian church near a Muslim holy site has zero connection to how the US should react to US citizens wanting to build a Muslim center next to an unofficially holy site (which, by the way, if it is holy, is partially Muslim holy, since a whole bunch of Muslims died there on 9-11-01.)
.
Intolerance by some Muslims of Christians in another country is no basis whatsoever for other US citizens to demand that their government agree to restrict US Muslims in a way they would not restrict any religion’s followers. That would be like Newt Gingrich’s opinion that, since Saudi Arabia does not allow any Christian churches in their country, we should be able to restrict where Muslim churches are sited in our country.
.
Hogwash, I think it is shameful to have such opinions. We should stoop to their level? We should be intolerant because they are? We should stop trying to be the example of a better way? I don’t think so.

President Obama should show support for the building of the mosque. There is no better place in the United States other than ‘ground-zero’ for the mosque to be located. This mosque should serve as a beacon of religious freedom and cast light on the religious intolerances of muslim countries. Let us not let emotions of hatred to the few perpetrators of ’911′ cloud our sense of religious freedom and tolerance. Otherwise we would have served to fullfill the wishes of these perpetrators of ’911′, in creating an intolerant world wherein the freedom to choice will be denied.

In modern America, you can associate one place to another even if it is two blocks away!

Wow, thank you very much for this information jme9570218. Do you have any links for this information? We here in the swamp tend to like to go to the original sources to verify information like this, especially when we want to also cite them in other comments or our own blogs. Thank you for doing so in advance.
.

I, like most people do not approve of having a Mosque built ANYWHERE near the 9/11 site. I also don’t feel that Obama has any right to say ANYTHING about this situation because:

1. The 1st Amendment. Do you really want our dysfunctional Congress amending the Constitution? It’s enough right now that there is talk of changing the 14th amendment.

2. The seperation of Church and State.

3. Palin and the rest of the hate mongers on the right want big government OUT OF THEIR LIVES. They want their country back (from big government I assume).

Now they scream because big government (a.k.a. Obama) won’t take a stand that they favor. You only want big government to get involved when it suits you. That ain’t the way it works in real life.

Obama’s opinion on this matter is no more relevent than mine or yours.

I will say that if the Muslims don’t think that this will invite violence and/or destruction they should go back to Mecca and get re-adjusted.

I am more interested in where the funding is coming from to build this. Now that, I think is something that big government should get involved with.

My guess would be that if Homeland Security would follow the money it will find ties to Hammas or another terrorist group. Now you have a legit way to stop the damn thing.

jme is not providing “facts”; s/he is merely parroting Newt Gingrinch and his distorted and inaccurate history of southern Spain. And hilariously, Newt was already pwned rather easily and embarrassingly by a graduate student. It was really pretty funny, especially since Newt continues to push his intellectual bona fides even though he is wrong so often in matter of history, his books have been relegated to the remainders bin.
.
But Fox listeners have never been one for accuracy when demagoguery is so much easier. These dum dums want to be lied to by the likes of Newt and Palin. They feel validated in their bigotry.

2/3′s applauds someone who uses the term, “towel head.” Let’s all say it together: RACIST!!

Well you are partly correct. The President only gave support to the 1st amendment, certainly hasn’t asked to change it.
.
On what bases do you ask that Homeland Security investigate where the money comes from? That Muslims are terrorists? How does it square with your separation of Church and State? How does it square with your opinion that “THEY” only want big government involved when it suits them?

That may have already been done. I’m sure that the Muslim community is watched closely for any signs that sleeper cells and covert activities are taking place.
.
I make this point because had the FBI and CIA not not been as diligent as they have been, the president would have already been assassinated, or we would have seen an Al Queda attack on American soil.
.
The first is in reference to what appears to be a huge number of death threats and attempts on BOs’ life, and the second is the obvious fact that we have not experienced a major terrorist attack since 9/11.
.
Keep in mind that when things are going well, no one notices…

I think they vet that community anyway, allthings. See above. The info gathered during the Bush years did not get wiped away when Obama took office…

nibbly:
.
You’ll see that Rusty [sh!thead] already used it on the other blogs as supporting “facts”.
.
I wish a Muslim would comment on this, because one thing is certain:
.
It is negative spin, only thing is, I don’t know how…

No doubts here. It’s a racial epithet. Didn’t have the guts to call O a n****r.
.
RACIST!

Careful what you ask for, earljr1:
.
Unlike you, some of the Republicans slated to win are sane…

Hey, I got an idea, Let’s make some rules, but every time someone’s feelings get hurt let’s throw out the rules, then if someone else’s feelings get hurt ’cause we threw out the rules, let’s have a big to-do over who’s feelings got hurt worse. And then we’ll know who to let have their way. It’ll be a real neat method to channel everyone’s insults, smugness, outrage, and victimhood.

53, you are correct about that, my thoughts were that jr was asking for a special investigation simply because he doesn’t want them to build a Mosque. Just the fear factor again, his guess “to stop the damn thing.” On that bases he is off base.

The argument that an Islamic cultural center near ground zero is insensitive vs the constitutional right of citizens to build one seems to expose the bigotry cloaked in a grief over tragedy. Should black parents have not sent their children to school after desegregation ordered by court?
Should Rosa Parks have simply moved out of her seat in a bus she was riding? I am a Muslim and may make my fellow passengers uncomfortable so should I stop air travel ? I am a Muslim and not a terrorist. I am fighting against terrorism just like another US citizen. Why bracket my faith with a few criminals?
I have never looked at any Irish or Irish American as a member of IRA.
Do we really believe that all the intelligence agencies under Homeland Security are sleeping and have not investigated the people involved in Cordoba project?
If they have no known links to any terrorists then why punish them and make them hold accountable for the deeds of those criminals ?

This is the Land of the free and home of the brave spirit and I chose to adopt it because of this very spirit. This spirit makes this country great. We have religious freedom, protection of private property and respect for those laws by making sure they are put to practice.
Should all US Muslims voluntarily move in internment camps to make their neighbors feel safe?
The call for Muslims move to Mecca assumes that Muslims=Arabs=terrorists. How much like Cheney’s faulty assertions linking Al Qaida to Iraq. We have paid too heavy a price in blood and money for such faulty reasoning, I as US Muslim will defend my country with my life and no doubt that many perished on 9/11 were Muslims. Let us not give up on our very foundations that make this country great.

Absolutely delusional.

BRAVE STAND my A———True politician uses religion and constition only when it suits his personal and political needs. Cancels Christian prayer breakfast,– worships Sundays on golf course–goes to most political advancing black church in Chicago,–raised part of life in Indonosia AND WORSHIPS HIS ABSENT FATHER WHO WAS mUSLIN. Thinks he is annointed leader to unit world but is only a small community organizer. . Doesn’t take a genius to figure out where he is coming from.

I find it disappointing that a Christian Church could develop such a self idolizing hate filled individual.

newfreedomblog~

If you read this, I have something for you @36.2 of “Obama Qualifies Mosque Defense”.
.
And, no , it’s not your own “eat $hit and die quickly” response.

resorting to personal attacks, 53, is an accurate barometer of just how weak your position is.

Would you comment on 34?
.
I ask you because it is obviously negative spin to arouse fears about Muslims in general.
.
I can sense the spin, but it would be nice to know exactly how that spin was applied. Links would be useful, too.
.
Thanks you, even if you choose not to…

And this little gem coming from a self professed atheist…go figure. The court of public opinion is the issue here, april, NOT Christian motives. MOST people have NO problem with another Mosque being constructed, what they DO question is the specific location. Mr. Obama is already backing off from his initial statement and this, too, comes as no surprise.

Tt’s called ‘giving aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war’ and is a treasonous act!

These people are so wrong for America.

Political correctness should stop at the waters edge!

As merely a bystander, I am amused at the rhetoric on both sides of this argument; on the one side, we have the liberals “supporting” the placement of the mosque anywhere they want it. On the other side we have the people who, for whatever reason, object to the placement of the mosque close to “ground zero” . Both sides have fairly compelling arguments to defend but both are ignoring aspects of the other side. When the liberals say the anti-mosque side are against religious freedom as set forth in the constitution they are being disingenious, at best, because no one on the anti-mosque side has espoused any such thing, the only objections are to the placement of the mosque and the seeming inappropriatness of WHERE they want to put it. They have stated NO opposition to the right of muslims to worship or otherwise practice their religion. No other religion has expressed a desire to build a church in close proximity to ground zero, Why muslims? I agree somewhat with the anti-mosque side when they say that the mosque would probably be seen as a memorial to the hijackers by moslems in the near east, whether that was its intended(?) purpose or not. Plus the question of where the money is coming from to build it is valid and needs to be answered. The argument that Bin Laden, et al, would point to denial of building as proof of Americas “anti-islam” agenda is hogwash because ALL they do is try to make out that the U.S. is anti-moslem–even though moslems have the same right to worship here as much as Methodists, Baptists, Jews, Budhists, etc do. That their desire to build could, and would, be seen as an affront is entirely understandable because how many new churches or synagogues have been built in muslim countries in, say, the last 25 years? And how safe are the people who would be using those churches or synagogues?? That the reaction of moslems AGAINST 9/11 is virtually indistinguishable from silence does not help their desire to build either. Islam has a LONG way to go before very many non-moslems will begin to think it is a peaceful religion. Personally, I don’t think building a mosque in the shadow of ground zero is much of a good idea and invoking constitutional grounds for supporting such building is specious because that’s NOT the point of the opposition. the point is building against the stated wishes of a very large majority of the population and–given the number of lives and the diversity of countries and religions of the people killed at ground zero as well as the sacrifices our military people have made since 9/11 and before, makes the issue national, if not global. It isn’t about JUST New York, the entire country has a stake in the debate and their views have a right to be considered too. But, like I said, I’m just a bystander, don’t live in NY so have no say about who–for or against–is elected.

“Plus the question of where the money is coming from to build it is valid and needs to be answered.”
>
Why? Do we ask where the money comes from if it was Christian Church, a Jewish Synagogue, Buddhist Temple?
No.

Is this man “delusional” too?

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/the-rest-is-silence/

This stand is braver:

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/05/29/wake-up-show/

So,looks like Time got it wrong,as this needs to read,
“Inman of the United States Barack Hussein Obama
arrogantly and callously ‘forcefully demands’ the immediate building of a Ground Zero 9-11 WTC Muslim
Victory Mosque,”at an Official Muslim State White House Dinner. And clearly establishes his statement,
“I Stand With The Muslims” made earlier that we now also have a Muslim Inman not a President in the White
House as well.

So,I submit having lost three good friends at the WTC
on 9-11,with one of them being a female NYPD Officer
that died a very long and painful death from the damage to heart and lungs from helping rescue others
from the fallen Twin Towers,that Barack Hussein Obama must either Resign or Be Impeached.

Pat Condell is a British comedian, but this video isn’t comic. Take six minutes out of your life to listen what this man is telling us.

It takes a Brit to put into words what Americans should be asking.

Can a predominantly Christian Nation win a war against a Muslim country, with a Muslim Commander In Chief?

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pat-condell-on-ground-zero-mosque-is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised.html

Bystander~
.
1) How would you describe what the anti-project “side” is ignoring of the compelling arguments of the anti-anti-project “side”? You mentioned it, but forgot to elaborate.
.
2) What do you think of this (link below) part of the equation? It is the part that goes: 19 months ago, there was unanimous consent in the Congress that it is illegal to forbid such a project?
..
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/adam_serwer_archive?month=08&year=2010&base_name=when_we_said_religious_freedom
.
3) I think you may be confusing defense of the First Amendment (which prohibits denying such a project) with “invoking constitutional grounds for supporting” it.
.
4) What do you think about the idea of a majority opinion in a survey overriding a Constitutional amendment and other laws, especially those passed by unanimous vote of their elected representatives?

Just which Muslim country are at war with?
.
Or are you suggesting that Americans need to answer this question in order to weigh-in on the affairs of another country which is at war with a Muslim country?

“Just which Muslim country are WE at war with?, I meant, of course.

mycophile: visit the link, listen to what the man says, and decide for yourself.

here’s another link for your considertion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w

He’s just trying to have both sides of the issue, nothing brave about that.

Dear Mr. Barack Hussein Obama:

Let me make *this* clear:

I understand you have welcomed and encouraged an Islamic Mosque to be built near Ground Zero in New York. Imagine this: Pretend you were born a few years earlier. Pretend you loved Sasha and Malia just as much then as you do now. Imagine you send them to college – pretend they both excel in the world of finance, graduate college with high honors, and take jobs in New York. Say, for example, with the Bank of America located within the Twin Towers. Imagine you get a phone call on a nice Tuesday September morning while you’re laying back on vacation *again* somewhere sipping your coffee, from Sasha crying and screaming in terror, pleading “Daddy, please help us – there’s smoke everywhere….people are screaming….I can’t see…..Daddy, I can’t breathe…..I can’t find Malia……”

Imagine, Barack, that as she’s crying to you over her phone you see a horror in front of you on your TV set like you’ve never seen in your life – American Airlines Flight 11 just plowed through the skyscraper where both your Daughters work – then another jetliner shortly thereafter – the phone goes dead, and you see on the TV screen a surreal video image of what looks like your child who has just leaped 100 stories from the inferno of what is left of the World Trade Center, just as many of our loved ones had, to their deaths if they were not already instantly destroyed by the initial fireball and melting steel from one of the exploding airliners turned missles in the name of Allah .

You cannot locate your Wife, friends and coworkers – all the phones and Internet in NY are dead – all bridges are closed – no one can get in or out – the skies have all gone eerily quiet with the exception of an occasional military jet fighter – you pray Malia and Michelle are alive and a spark of hope flickers when you see hundreds of heroic firefighters and policemen on TV rushing to the scene into what’s left of the towers – and right before your very eyes, Barack, you see everything crumble — with EVERYONE inside — to the ground in a puff of surreal smoke, screams, horror and dust in a matter of seconds, leveling them all to nothing but charred ashes and soot in a flattened pile of rubble — our children, our families, our friends, first responders, firefighters, police, rescue workers and loved ones while the Muslims danced for joy in the streets.

Got Mosque? Karma is our friend and we’re not afraid to use it.

Brave???? The man is a traitor and a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
He has done nothing but fight for Islam – his own – not the American people.

Freedom and tolerance? Where was Barry Soetoro’s tolerance when he sent Secret Service agents to the freakin Seaside Heights, NJ BOARDWALK to put a halt to a silly Lucky Leo’s kids’ arcade game pitching rubberballs at a likeness of Obama? He did, however, permit them to replace it with a likeness of George W. Bush.

He is a traitor and he is a coward.

Please, just give me a politician that represents me, not one that has his or hers own agenda. You have to question this elitist mentality.

Islam can be permissive and can be repressive. It depends on how you practice it, which is the case with all other religions and beliefs, including communism. Islam nowadays is a far cry from the tolerant and enlightened days of the Prophet and the period that ensued. So, one cannot but understand the cautious attitude against building an Islamic center on Ground Zero. Managed by Imams who can justify anything including al-Qaeda style jihads,it can quickly become a breeding ground for unwelcome activities.

As a matter of fact, yes, yes he is.

http://ronmossad.blogspot.com/2009/04/final-word-on-niels-harrit-nanothermite.html

I’m a little tired of this. It is (I think) firmly established that the Imam has the right to build the mosque. It also is in very bad taste to put it next to where Muslims killed 3000 Americans. Since the mosque can’t be stopped, protest it when it is built. Boycott vendors who supply it. Refuse contracts to construction companies who build it. Hit them in their pocketbook.

I watched it before I commented
.
I heard no no Muslim country named.
.
And he essentially blamed America’s “political correctness” and ethos of tolerance for combining to result in spinelessness — he did not blame Obama for that.
.
But you framed it as if, without a Muslim Commander in Chief, that would disappear. If Pat Condel is correct, you are incorrect.

President Obama said on Friday 8/13/2010 , in the White House dinner celebrating Ramadan, that ‘I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country.” I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. Ground zero is, indeed, hallowed ground,” But, he continued: “This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are.” On Saturday 8/14/2010 the President added :” I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making a decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding.”

With the present hostility, unheard of before 9/11 , of some Americans and in the world towards Islam , all pray now that President Barack Obama will very soon publicly disclose to all Americans and to the world ,the names of the criminals who are ultimately responsible for , as well as the complete facts about , the evil crimes of 9/11 ,the two wars that followed in Iraq and Afghanistan – both citing these evil crimes as the reason, the following devastation that these wars have caused in these countries ,the hundreds or thousands of Americans, Canadians and other NATO heroes killed or wounded ,the thousands or millions of Muslims and others who were killed, wounded ,displaced……in the world ,the resulting prejudice towards the Islamic faith of some in USA and in the world, and the very serious economic problems that followed in the USA and in the world. Those criminals of 9/11 are very likely also responsible for
the present rig explosion disaster and for the human, ecological , environmental and economic devastation it caused.
Tharwat Fawzi

December 7th 1941 the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor killing or wounding almost 4,000 American soldiers, bringing us into World War II. Soon after Japanese citizens were rounded up and placed into concentration camps amid national security concerns. Americans stood in solidarity against the Japanese Imperialist menace and we mobilized and defeated them as a country, losing many soldiers in battle….
‎
… when the war was over we released the Japanese- Americans we held in concentration camps, moved on and healed, and now Japan is one of our most important trading partners, we have many Japanese families and business here, and I even have a beloved Japanese-American in my family… we learned to let go of the hate and fear we had during the war, and we love our fellow Japanese-Americans…

…we need to be that country now in this post-9/11 world. We need to move on and start healing. We have all suffered at the hands of Al-Qaeda, but we cannot let them tear apart America even further and allow hate and fear build against Muslim-Americans. People of Islam were killed on 9/11 too, and Al-Qaeda has killed, tortured and maimed many thousands of Muslims globally. Terrorists attacked us, not Islam. A mosque in lower Manhattan is moving around the corner. It’s going to be alright….

Personally, I think he is Muslim himself. It really annoys me that they come here, blow up our stuff, now they want a place to bow to their cow or whatever it is they bow to on the same spot. Pathetic, Take that nonsense back to wherever it is you came from!

Lou
http://www.web-privacy.es.tc

I remember growing up and everyone had the Boston Globe and Time mag delivered to their door. I wonder if either have figured out why their circulation has dropped so far. Pro Tip its not just the delivery form of media that has affected you, its your content and bias..

If Bush had made the same remarks Obama did, TIME would be calling them “ill advised”, “unpopular”, or accuse the president of taking sides “against a majority of the American people”. But no, when this former community organizer sides with the religion of the 11 hijacking killers of 3000 innocent people, TIME calls him “brave”. Adios TIME, it’s only a matter of time.

Why would anyone expect anything other than what the president has said and done regarding this mosque business? In his own book, when talking of Muslims, our ‘Christian’ president said, “I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.”

Think this man sides with you America? Think again.

Your sycophantic quotation from Candidate Obama, “… we need to tell the American people what they need to hear”, vividly illustrates the disdain he and fellow members of the minority Ruling Class hold for the opinions of the majority Country Class.

Thankfully, the Internet has allowed the Country Class to finally understand the Democrats’ drive to democrat socialism and to see through the propaganda smog pumped out by shills like Time’s Michael Crowley and his fellow Journolist suckups.

As they say when the music stops, “the jig is up”.

So when exactly is the Moron in Chief supposed to start doing the “will of the people”?
.
To recap -
- The majority of people were *against* bailing out of the banks; yet he did it.
- The majority of people were *against* bailing out the auto industry; yet he did that.
- The majority of people were *against* bailing out the housing ind; which yet again, he insisted on.
- AND THEN -
- The majority of people *support* Arizona’s Anti-Illegal Alien Bill; which 0dumbo actually SUES to stop.
And finally -
- The VAST majority of Americans are against the construction of this mosque; and this Idiot AGAIN sides AGAINST the will of the American people!
.
CANNOT WAIT UNTIL 2012 to vote the idiot OUT OUT OUT!!!!

The President is absolutely correct and the writer of this article is absolutely wrong. Religious freedom and pluralism as guaranteed by the Constitution do not only apply in specific chosen locations but to the entire country. The republicans and so called “conservatives” once again demonstrate their complete ignorance of and disregard for the Constitution. According to the republicans and the writer of this article, Americans should pick and choose what religions and religious buildings are allowed to exist. If this is the case, does it mean we can shut down all Catholic churches also?

Mr. President’s comment was not brave; it was stupid. After Muslims SCREEM out loud that the Taliban is INSANE, that stoning adulterers is INSANE, that goofy Allah will not give 77 virgins to dumb asses who can’t get a girl friend now. so why give them after they kill themselves and others and what kind of goofy diety values women SOOOO little that it takes 77 virgins for 1 mentally challanged fanatic?
So what the he11 do we need with this religion anywhere in our hemosphere?

Many defending this mosque seem confused and ignorant of the President’s authority and role as our national leader. Everyone, including all those who vigorously admonish him, know that there is no “constitutional” reason to not allow the mosque to be installed a few blocks from ground zero. However, everyone also knows that it is also morally reprehensible for a mosque –a place of worship for the ideologues who committed the murder of 3000 people in the name of Allah who is honored and worshipped in said mosque- to be placed here. It symbolizes the victory of Allah over the nonbelievers. President Obama could have come out strongly condemning the idea of a mosque on this site without denying the constitutional right of any religious group to build a site of worship. He has the “bully pulpit”.

I seriously doubt that President Obama or Mr. Bloomberg would come out in support of the constitutional right of the Klu Klux Klan to build a meeting center for white supremacist near Martin Luther King or Abraham Lincoln’s grave site nor for neo-Nazi’s to build a white history museum adjacent to the Holocaust memorial in the name of reconciliation. To say otherwise would be both hypocritical and false.

I also have never heard Mr. Obama condemning the Islamic world for the persecution of Christians and Jews and denying thier right to build places of worship in “muslim lands”. Mr Obama seems to believe we must accept their brutal treatment of non-muslims while always supporting every right of muslims in our country. He appears weak in the muslim mind and in the minds of more and more Americans.

The president has stood with Islamic terrorists who would rub our faces in the ashes of the people who died on 911. He shows no leadership in moral issues and cowardice of very one sided political correctness.

JH

The Japanese did not ask to build a shrine to Emporer Hirohito on the grounds of Pearl harbor!

Obama is Brave??? You think he’s brave?? He’s plain worried some Islamic “jihadi” group will end his days on this planet prematurely. Oh, yes. I can see it in his eyes and hear it in his speeches. This man simply says what he should rather than what he feels or what he believes in. The result: plain old nothing. If he was honest with himself, he wouldn’t have held that dinner after a day’s fasting called “Iftar”. Has anybody heard of Christians or Hindus or Buddhists trying to impose any of their religious traditions on their own societies, let alone other societies? Then we have to consider that such traditions are not educational or progressive but consist mainly of simple, non-intellectual, instinctive and many times very backward rituals: Prejudice against women including forcing them to get married as early as ten or even earlier to father’s choice, getting away with murdering a woman for loving a man outside marriage and from her own father or brother, stoning women for the same “crime” as some Afghans, presumably Taliban, did only a couple of days ago, flogging for any alcohol consumption when some pious sheiks import alcoholic beverages to sell them at 10 and more times their actual price in their own “clean” countries, and the most horrible of all practices, circumcision of young angel-girls in some Islamic societies. I just can’t think of it.
Thanks to the spread of knowledge that took place DESPITE the losers of our present times, people, including ordinary intimidated Muslims now know more than ever that there’s absolutely no difference between black and white or reddish or blueish or whatever color hues complexions of homo sapiens might acquire. But yes to Racism, yes to Apartheid and yes to bigotry for discrimination against women or against freedoms of speech and convictions and beliefs and Mr. Obama had better address his invitees:
“Thank you for coming but I don’t really care whether you have fasted the day or not. This is something between you and your own beliefs and not for showing it around. I have to ask you to leave now and only come back when you have understood what America is all about. You want to build an Islamic center in great liberal New York for what purpose? For not being able to achieve anything of substance in literature, in art and in what not during the past millennium? All you have done in the past centuries was writing volumes upon volumes on why words came the way they did in verses of the Quran. All you did was watching other societies’ achievements while trying to justify that whatever great progress man realized in science and technology and space could have been construed from the Quran. Well, you can spend the next millennium trying to figure it out without reaching this end.
If you want to be true Americans and even true human beings at that, stop forcing your young daughters to veil themselves and then when they grow older and do it out of habit and are asked by a security officer to expose their faces you scream, “Breach of human rights!!”
Stop encouraging poor societies as in Gaza to over-multiply for the purpose of increasing Muslim population when they need to control their number if any degree of welfare society is to be achieved for the miserable children.
Take a clear stand against the horrible practice of girl circumcision.
Tell the Saudis that they cannot carry on banning non-muslims from even flying over Mecca and Medina, let alone visiting or passing through them, in the most disgraceful breach of human dignity (where is it written in their Quran?) when Buddhist Japan and China and Hindu India and all Christian Europe and America let people belonging to the Muslim faith become even citizens without signing a pledge that although their religion might state otherwise, they have to fully abide by the laws of the respective countries and, of course, appreciate their hospitalities and respect to human rights.
Once you’ve proven that you respect that great creation or, indeed, the greatest of creations and the reason for your existence on planet Earth, also called the Woman, then and only then you may start to deserve the privilege of being American!!

THIS IS AMERICA!!, Mr. Obama

mycophile: I think the point has evaded your good sense! There are a few points one with half a brain might be able to comprehend:

We should be at war with all Muslims. It is their sacred duty to convert or kill the infidel. That includes you. If you don’t want to bow down to Allah and the East, if you don’t want women to be property, if you don’t want gays to be executed, if you don’t want to live by Sharia Law, you had better wake up. Your president is a Muslim sympathizer, at the very least. He will side with Muslims. He wrote it in his book.

The Imam pushing this building was asked if Al Quida was a terrorist organization. He could not bring himself to simply say YES. Instead, he made some comment about not getting involved in the politics…

He said (something like this) comparing Muslim terrorists to all Muslims would be like comparing Christian terrorist to all Christians. What Christian terrorists? I don’t hear stories of Christians strapping bombs on themselves to blow people up.

Just a few days ago, a couple was stoned to death for adultery. Yesterday, a suicide bomber killed 61 people.

Ask yourself this: Is there really any such ting as a moderate Muslim? Why do you consider Islam with its Sharia Law to be a religion, at all?

Wake up sir. You aren’t even asking the right questions.

Let me tell you about a Muslim I know: He told me quite casually how he screwed a donkey on his cousin’s farm, as if that was a perfectly acceptable practice. I asked what the donkey did and he said, “It looked back and smiled.”

The same man thought it OK to sleep with my American friend’s sister, but told me “she wasn’t good enough to marry. He would be going back home to get a Muslim wife.” I told my friend and his sister what he said. He went back home and got his Muslim wife. He was gone for two weeks. I’ve always wondered how one gets a wife in only two weeks, but I think Muslims often make financial bargains for them.

You should hear the stories of my immigrant friends who escaped the Muslim atrocities of Uzbekistan.

Don’t be foolish enough to think Islam is a religion of peace. Muslims will do whatever is necessary to promote Islam and Sharia Law. That includes lie, cheat, steal or kill. Their Koran does more than say it is OK. The Koran says it is their DUTY.

Muslims embrace the very things that Christians abhor.

You may call Islam a religion if you wish, but call it something else.

1300 years or so ago, the great Christian Arab poet, al-Akhtal, who inspired my pen name, entered the Umayyad Caliphate reception hall and the Caliphate asked his waiters to bring something for his esteemed guest.
“I need a drink.” Akhtal said.
“Bring him water!” the Caliphate shouted at the waiters with a menacing smile on his face
“That’s donkey’s drink!” protested Akhtal.
“Then bring him milk!” shouted the Caliphate
“That’s sick people’s drink” shouted back Akhtal.
“Then what do you want!!” yelled the Caliphate.
“Wine!! Wine!!”
And the Caliphate fell on his back laughing.
Considering the dialog happened in Ramadan and at the zenith of Islamic Arab power, it was a very tolerant attitude indeed. However it was not exactly that for had Akhtal not been so eloquent in verse the Caliphate would most likely have chopped his head off for a much lesser offence.
Sunni Muslims can love peoples of other religions as long as they amuse them and are useful to them, as is the case now in oil rich states of the Gulf. But they have to do the ruling.
Shiites are much more tolerant. They not only allow different points of view of the same Quran texts (Ijtihad) but give the same inheritance rights to women as for men, So Shiites and Christians usually live together almost trouble free.
In either case, Muslims have to learn from the flood calamity in Pakistan: Non Muslim countries were the first to extend help of any appreciable magnitude.The main problem is that only a fraction of the aid reaches the miserable families while a good part is sold in the black market by officials of their own countrymen.
If they are to hope for any progress, Muslims have to change inside their heads before it is too late.