Obama Breaks His Silence on Cordoba House

As I previously suggested, Friday’s Iftar dinner at the White House provided a unique opportunity for Obama to address the debate over the proposed construction of a Mosque in lower Manhattan, two blocks from where the World Trade Center once stood. He did just that. Though the president tiptoed around the issue in his written statement marking the beginning of Ramadan earlier this week, Obama’s remarks Friday night were an explicit and unequivocal defense of Cordoba House as an appropriate expression of faith. His remarks are worth reading in full (as prepared for delivery, emphasis mine):

Good evening. Welcome to the White House. To you, to Muslim Americans across our country, and to more than one billion Muslims around the world, I extend my best wishes on this holy month. Ramadan Kareem. I want to welcome members of the diplomatic corps; members of my administration; and Members of Congress, including Rush Holt, John Conyers, and Andre Carson, who is one of two Muslim American Members of Congress, along with Keith Ellison.

Here at the White House, we have a tradition of hosting iftars that goes back several years, just as we host Christmas parties, seders, and Diwali celebrations. These events celebrate the role of faith in the lives of the American people. They remind us of the basic truth that we are all children of God, and we all draw strength and a sense of purpose from our beliefs.

These events are also an affirmation of who we are as Americans. Our Founders understood that the best way to honor the place of faith in the lives of our people was to protect their freedom to practice religion. In the Virginia Act for Establishing Religion Freedom, Thomas Jefferson wrote that “all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion.” The First Amendment of our Constitution established the freedom of religion as the law of the land. And that right has been upheld ever since.

Indeed, over the course of our history, religion has flourished within our borders precisely because Americans have had the right to worship as they choose – including the right to believe in no religion at all. And it is a testament to the wisdom of our Founders that America remains deeply religious – a nation where the ability of peoples of different faiths to coexist peacefully and with mutual respect for one another stands in contrast to the religious conflict that persists around the globe.

That is not to say that religion is without controversy. Recently, attention has been focused on the construction of mosques in certain communities – particularly in New York. Now, we must all recognize and respect the sensitivities surrounding the development of lower Manhattan. The 9/11 attacks were a deeply traumatic event for our country. The pain and suffering experienced by those who lost loved ones is unimaginable. So I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground.

But let me be clear: as a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country. That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are. The writ of our Founders must endure.

We must never forget those who we lost so tragically on 9/11, and we must always honor those who have led our response to that attack – from the firefighters who charged up smoke-filled staircases, to our troops who are serving in Afghanistan today. And let us always remember who we are fighting against, and what we are fighting for. Our enemies respect no freedom of religion. Al Qaeda’s cause is not Islam – it is a gross distortion of Islam. These are not religious leaders – these are terrorists who murder innocent men, women and children. In fact, al Qaeda has killed more Muslims than people of any other religion – and that list of victims includes innocent Muslims who were killed on 9/11.

That is who we are fighting against. And the reason that we will win this fight is not simply the strength of our arms – it is the strength of our values. The democracy that we uphold. The freedoms that we cherish. The laws that we apply without regard to race or religion; wealth or status. Our capacity to show not merely tolerance, but respect to those who are different from us – a way of life that stands in stark contrast to the nihilism of those who attacked us on that September morning, and who continue to plot against us today.

In my inaugural address, I said that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus — and non-believers. We are shaped by every language and culture, drawn from every end of this Earth. That diversity can bring difficult debates. Indeed, past eras have seen controversies about the construction of synagogues or Catholic churches. But time and again, the American people have demonstrated that we can work through these issues, stay true to our core values, and emerge stronger for it. So it must be – and will be – today.

Tonight, we are reminded that Ramadan is a celebration of a faith known for great diversity. And Ramadan is a reminder that Islam has always been part of America. The first Muslim ambassador to the United States, from Tunisia, was hosted by President Jefferson, who arranged a sunset dinner for his guest because it was Ramadan—making it the first known iftar at the White House, more than 200 years ago.

Like so many other immigrants, generations of Muslims came here to forge their future. They became farmers and merchants, worked in mills and factories, and helped lay the railroads. They helped build America. They founded the first Islamic center in New York City in the 1890s. They built America’s first mosque on the prairie of North Dakota. And perhaps the oldest surviving mosque in America—still in use today—is in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

Today, our nation is strengthened by millions of Muslim Americans. They excel in every walk of life. Muslim American communities—including mosques in all fifty states—also serve their neighbors. Muslim Americans protect our communities as police, firefighters and first responders. Muslim American clerics have spoken out against terror and extremism, reaffirming that Islam teaches that one must save human life, not take it. And Muslim Americans serve with honor in our military. At next week’s iftar at the Pentagon, tribute will be paid to three soldiers who gave their lives in Iraq and now rest among the heroes of Arlington National Cemetery.

These Muslim Americans died for the security that we depend upon, and the freedoms that we cherish. They are part of an unbroken line of Americans that stretches back to our Founding; Americans of all faiths who have served and sacrificed to extend the promise of America to new generations, and to ensure that what is exceptional about America is protected – our commitment to stay true to our core values, and our ability to perfect our union.

For in the end, we remain “one nation, under God, indivisible.” And we can only achieve “liberty and justice for all” if we live by that one rule at the heart of every religion, including Islam—that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us.

Thank you all for being here, and I wish you a blessed Ramadan. And with that, let’s eat.

A few scattered thoughts: The timing of the speech, 8:30 pm on a Friday night in August, is about as low key as one can get. The dinner may well have been on the calendar long before Obama decided to weigh in on the issue, but the timing basically minimizes ricochet in the echo chamber.

Obama actually acknowledged many critics of Cordoba House in his use of the phrase “hallowed ground” to describe Ground Zero. The words are straight out of Charles Krauthammer’s column today in the Washington Post.

The issue seemed personal to the president. He began his most direct defense of the project with “as a citizen, and as President.” And, based on the scant polling that’s been done, it’s hardly something his political advisers want him talking about on a whim.

And somewhat tangentially, the entire episode has reminded me of Colin Powell’s endorsement of Obama on “Meet the Press.” In the interview Powell decried what he saw as anti-Islamic rhetoric in his own party and spoke at some length of Muslims’ contributions to America. The relevant portion starts at about 4:30 below:

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  • megatronrises

    The POTUS finally chimes in. Now we just have to wait for critics to bleat louder.
    .
    Thanks for this report Adam; much appreciated.

  • 70northsullivan

    Excellent! Just what needed to be said. The next few days should be interesting, 830 on Friday notwithstanding.

  • mycophile

    I will say only these things here (for I have said much already, and this blog, w/ video, goes where I cannot, anyway)
    .
    newfreedomblog ~~ It looks like the idea of Ground Zero having status of a “sacred” character has been given the nod under the color of authority, and thus will probably become commonly accepted. (I know not the relation of Obama’s term “hallowed” to your “sacred”, but I do not care, for it is close enough, I am sure, to your intent.)
    .
    3xfire3~~ I hope you will be able to come to feel that the “insensitivity” issue is not as black-and-white as it has seemed to you. I suggest that Powell’s Arlington story is a good window into one of the other sides of it. Whether that transformation occurs in you now or later, I have a very extremely uncharacterisitic-for-me urge to pray for you that it happens before you shuffle off this mortal coil. I am dead serious. Perhaps it is the effect of Obama’s reminder of the value of not just tolerance of religious practice, but of the value of valuing the practice of religion. I found myself re-thinking my in-caps statements about I support the freedom to practice religion in private. I still believe that to be its overwhelmingly primary place, but I am now remembering how public displays of worship have never bothered me unless I was being proselytized or prevented from access to something by it, or had my peace and quiet disturbed by it. Perhaps my reaction here and now might give you some hope that Obama’s oratory style and messages just might have a lot of value to America sometimes.

  • Cliff

    Hey, speaking of unhinged xenophobia, Rep. Louie Gohmert flips his goddamn lid on CNN:
    .
    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_08/025193.php
    .
    Not sure why the Swampers aren’t remarking on this.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    http://phd9.blogspot.com/search?q=temptation

    I keep trying to remind people. The guarantees of Freedom that are in the Constitution aren’t there because they are easy., They are there because they are hard.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    Thanks for the link, Cliff. If fear mongering and its potential consequences didn’t scare me so much, that piece of dung would have made me laugh.

  • maverick2k9

    Tweet from pourmecoffee

    “Afraid to go to sleep or Obama will build an Inception mosque IN MY DREAMS.”

    :)

  • apr2563

    Adam: Thank you for posting the whole speech and the remarks by General Powell. The President was eloquent in speaking of the sacredness of the 9/11 site but also of our Constitution. By sacred, I mean something we hold close to us not to be defamed. I think the victims of 9/11 would feel proud that we are able to maintain our fundamental beliefs and honor them by honoring our Constitition.

  • apr2563

    http://www.washblog.com/story/2008/10/19/124936/95
    Photo of Muslim mother at Arlington Gravesite that General Powell references.

  • apr2563

    I’ve watched that video of Gomhert several times. It was featured on TPM. It is hard to keep up with the crazies. Everyday brings a new outbreak, from the Rep Florida state rep who wants us to inter illegals immigrants like we did the Japanese during the 2nd world war to Angle wanting us to adopt the Pinochet, Chile model of Social Security.

  • Cliff

    I’m usually not an Anderson Cooper fan, but I do love the way he vocally insists on Gohmert providing proof for his ridiculous nonsense.
    .
    But yeah, how many wingnuts are going to take this as proof that the MSM is covering up the Terror Baby plot?

  • Alex Vallas

    Excellent speech. The President acted presidential throughout this controversy. I lived in Muslim countries as a member of the US Foreign Service and traveled extensively in the Middle East. Thus, I have mixed emotions. I can sympathize with the families of those who were affected by 9/11. I also resent the fact that Saudi Arabia does not allow Christian churches to be built in that country. As a Greek Orthodox I highly resent the treatment of the Patriach by the Turkish Government. They are trying to destruct the oldest church in Christianity. (On the other hand, Greece which does not have separation of Church and State is allowing Mosque to be built in Athens). I also know that the University of Baghdad had Catholic Jesuits as instructors many years ago and that Syria and Lebanon have numerous Christian churches. In the end, the President is correct. This country is committed to religious freedom. Personally, I become disgusted with some of the so called Fundamentalists Evangelical Christian Leaders who preach hatred and bigotry in this country. They are no better than the Islamic fundamentalists.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “The dinner may well have been on the calendar long before Obama decided to weigh in on the issue”
    .
    “May well have”?
    .
    “Obama actually acknowledged many critics of Cordoba House in his use of the phrase “hallowed ground” to describe Ground Zero. The words are straight out of Charles Krauthammer’s column today in the Washington Post”
    .
    First reference to that Ground Zero as hollowed ground that I could find was from schlock rockers W.A.S.P. in October of 2001 followed by untold other examples.
    .
    It is far from CK’s angry pen.

  • kathy

    Thanks for posting this Adam.

    I’m as angry at the stupidity and unamericanism of those opposed to the mosque as I have been at anything in the last few years. practically speechless about it, and haven’t commented to date. It represents a deep lack of understanding of the American experiment.

    Another nod to the critics is Obama’s references to Jefferson, one of those (nonchristian) founding fathers that Palin and co are so often misrepresenting.

  • newfreedomblog

    In a civilized world, especially the politically correct civilized world of liberals and progressives, they believe that placing a Mosque practically in the middle of ground zero is ok by using the Constitution which they also at times like to shred, and destroy when it does not meet their needs or support their cause. The same Constitution they will advocate on certain issues to allow for their liberal judges to legislate from the bench rather than uphold the existing laws.
    .
    No one on the right has said the Muslims of Cordoba house do not have the right, under the First Amendment to build their mosque anywhere they want it to be built.
    .
    However, we do have the right under the same First Amendment to question the motive behind building this mosque at its desired location. We have the right to speak out against it as intolerance by Muslims to build this mosque at this location. We have the right to speak out against building of this mosque based on the FACT it was Muslims who perpetrated the crime against our country and those citizens who died within the Twin Towers. We have the right to say to Muslims this is WRONG to build this mosque on this site.
    .
    The Constitution which my liberal friends have found again, are now not saying the Constitution is a living document, but rather they claim it should be interpreted litterally on this specific issue. Isn’t that quaint.
    .
    The Constitution does not give you any rights, but rather protects the right to do something or NOT do something from the Government from imposing laws against those INDIVIDUAL rights. The Constitution is not specific in the sense that it actually says, “you have the right to build this mosque at ground zero and no one can tell you otherwise”. What it does say is that you have the INDIVIDUAL freedom of religion to practice that religion as you so choose. To go any place you choose, where you have permission from the land owner to throw out your prayer rug, face east and pray to Allah.
    .
    I would not even care if they threw out their prayer rugs right on the very ground that the Twin Towers once stood as long as they were praying for the souls of those who were killed and murdered by the Muslim Terrorists, or to ask Allah to touch the hearts of those who want to build a mosque in such a sensitive location as they are now proposing and get them to change their minds.
    .
    But, the moral of the story is the Constitution does not lay claim to what is right or wrong. That is up to our society to decide. In our Republic, it is up to the majority of the people to determine what is right or wrong in these cases. The majority of the people have spoken, over 60% say this choice made by Imam Rauf is wrong. To build a mosque this close to ground zero is wrong.
    .
    The mere fact that the Muslims who want to build this specific mosque continue to pursue building it do not want to seek a moderate relationship with most Americans. It is obvious they are building this mosque to thumb up their nose at those of us who oppose it. The 60% of Americans who oppose it. The families of the 9/11 victims. Anyone who believes this ground is indeed sacred now and “hallowed” ground.
    .
    After all of the outrage spoken out by most Americans, Muslims who are in charge of building this mosque want to do it for the sensationalism it has created. Not out of any respect for anything or anyone. That much is very clear. That much is very obvious.

  • newfreedomblog

  • newfreedomblog

    As usual you are a quack, kathy. Jefferson was a christian, was raised a christian. He simply chose not to attend any specific christian church as an adult. But, he held very christian and religious values, ideals and beliefs.
    .
    Want to provide us with any documents that you have which prove he is “non-christian”.
    .
    Oh, that’s right, you can’t.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Completely off (BS ginned up) topic but Gail Collins’ column today on the 80th anniversary of suffrage is outstanding.
    .

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/14/opinion/14collins.html?_r=1&ref=gailcollins

  • Paul-no not that one

    B’ah! 90th. A decade’s worth of typo.

  • michaelfury
  • michaelfury

    “the nihilism of those who attacked us on that September morning, and who continue to plot against us today.”

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/the-rest-is-silence/

  • 70northsullivan

    Jefferson was a deist who was criticized for his non-orthodox beliefs, and was involved in preparing an edition of the Gospels that eliminated any mention of Jesus’ (alleged) ‘miracles’. Check ‘Thomas Jefferson and religion’ in Wikipedia (or practically any other scholarly work on the subject- recent RW revisionism not included.)

  • 53_3

    I’m glad that Obama came out in favor.
    .
    Disregarding Rusty’s rather “porous” interpretation of the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, I do remember Obama swearing to uphold it…

  • newfreedomblog

    Unfortunately for you 70north. Wallbuilders, which I am sure you are labeling one of those “RW revisionist” sites, not only has researched but also has in it’s possession the ORIGINAL documents. Also unfortunate for you those original documents which you can see online, prove the historians you speak of as the revisionists of our history.
    .
    Information contained within our history books from those progressive sources you mention have written their own version of history and not what in fact WAS history. They are the individuals who have invented their version of what they believe our history was, and what our founding fathers said in the recent past.
    .
    You may want to go to Wallbuilders site, and look for yourself for the truth.
    .
    http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=123

  • allthingsinaname

    I have no idea if Jefferson was a Christian or not. I have no Idea if Kathy is or not. Rusty says he is and, so do I. Yet Rusty and I stand opposed on many issues, if not all.
    .
    My understanding of things is that we have the right to practice our religion in this country. It is a Constitutional right. Clearly it was the intent of those who wrote the Constitution and the Amendments that it be so. If they were Christian or not makes no difference.

  • allthingsinaname

    “After all of the outrage spoken out by most Americans, Muslims who are in charge of building this mosque want to do it for the sensationalism it has created. Not out of any respect for anything or anyone. That much is very clear. That much is very obvious.”
    .
    Even if it was true Rusty, they have the right , much in the same way you and your party have the right to inflame and, sensationalize this issue, just like you have been.

  • Friar Tuck

    “We have met the enemy and he is us.” Walt Kelly
    .
    The problem is not God, who has power over us, but people who use “God” to impose their wills upon other people – a condition otherwise known as “religion.”
    .
    Jon Butcher’s take, from almost twenty-five years ago, still relevant:
    .

  • 53_3

    Possession of original documents is one thing.
    .
    In order to be subject to historical debate, those documents must be available to any historian who wishes to study them.
    .
    Also, “Wallbuilders” intent is to apply a conservative* interpretation to those and other historical documents and events.
    .
    My emphasis is on the word “interpretation” for a reason**…
    .
    *This is a vague standard indeed, as many conservatives work within the currently accepted historical interpretations.

  • textee

    Does anyone know if Obama supports Greg Gutfeld’s plan to open a “gay” bar next door to the Ground Zero mosque? http://www.dailygut.com/?i=4696

  • m0mentom0ri

    “Anyone who believes this ground is indeed sacred now and “hallowed” ground.”
    .
    I highly recommend the holy pizza from the sacred Majestic Pizza Place a half block away. Its sublime.
    .
    Many of the Americans who died on 9/11 were Muslims, Rusty. Google it if you want a list, the last time I posted it Freepy heartlessly called it a “mouseketeer roll call”.
    .
    All you prove with this diatribe is that you are incapable of telling the difference between a Muslim and a Muslim terrorist. It’s like not being able to tell the difference between a Christian and Eric Rudolph. Or is it insensitive to build churches in Atlanta now?
    .
    What about the mosque that’s already there, a mere 4 blocks away from Ground Zero? Do we tear that one down? What about the synagogue that’s 2 blocks away? That ok with you? Or should we take a poll? And how close would be acceptable to you? 10 blocks? A mile? Anywhere but in NY? Would you want a mosque next door to where you live, Rusty? Why not? It isn’t sacred ground is it?

  • m0mentom0ri

    A) There are already a few gay bars in the area.
    .
    B) There is already a mosque in the neighborhood.
    .
    C) You are a juvenile bigot with a twisted and probably Freudian sense of humor.

  • http://endoftherope.wordpress.com endoftherope

    You manage to contradict yourself with such eloquence.

    “…Mosque practically in the middle of ground zero…” (why you capitalized a non-proper noun I’m not sure, however, grammar is not the issue here)

    “I would not even care if they threw out their prayer rugs right on the very ground that the Twin Towers once stood”

    Aside from just being rude as usual, you have made no point in this comment other than some people obviously oppose Cordoba House but that it ultimately does not and should not matter under the laws which you also interpret to your liking depending on the day and issue. That’s essentially why we interpret things, to put them in the context of the various situations which alter our worldviews as we progress through life.

    Say 60% of Americans do opposes Cordoba House, it is no matter. This is not an election and suggesting that majority holds power over this issue, is, well, here it comes, your favorite word, racist. At the very least utterly oppressive.

    Please remove “freedom” from your name, it really shouldn’t be there.

  • newfreedomblog

    “Please remove “freedom” from your name, it really shouldn’t be there”.

    .
    How about this idea, why don’t you just simply eat $hit and die quickly??? :) Of course that is just my opinion too.
    .
    Enjoy!!

  • gingersnapp

    Just a couple of quick questions: Are there Shinto or Buddhists churches in Pearl Harbor? Do we keep Tim McVeigh’s family out of OKC? Just wondering?

  • newfreedomblog

    Gutfeld should put up a website and start taking donations for the purchase of the building next door. I would contribute today!!
    .
    I wonder if Hamas would donate to that project.
    .
    LOL!!

  • newfreedomblog

    I wonder what the rabid leftist who represent themselves on this site would think if Timothy McVeigh’s family erected a memorial near the OKC site would say about that?
    .
    I’m sure they would be all for protecting that family’s right to do so too.

  • newfreedomblog

    http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=22345
    .
    Just for IQ53 and Kathy. A copy of the original document whereby Thomas Jefferson signed his name to a ship manifest as President of the United States, he signed his name and dated it.
    .
    Not only did he sign it as President, but he also ended it by saying Thomas Jefferson on September 24, 1807, in the year of our Lord Christ
    .
    Imagine that!! In the year of our Lord, Christ. Now THAT Ladies and Gentlemen is proof positive that these two lefist nutballs don’t have a clue as to what in the hell they are talking about. Our far left liberal extremists, IQ53 and some unknown wacko named kathy.

  • newfreedomblog

    Everything you ever wanted to know about Muslims and Hamas. A must see video made by a Palestinian.
    .

  • allthingsinaname

    Thank God I live in America where I have the freedom to worship as I wish. Thank God I was born in America where the simple fact that I was born here gives me the right to be an American, not at the whim of some individual, politician or, political party. Thank God there are still people here who understand that.

  • Cliff

    Jefferson was a Christian, but he was not any form of Christian Rusty would recognize:
    .

    It is probably safe to say that Jefferson first acquired from Joseph Priestley features of his world view and faith which he found confirmed to his satisfaction by further thought and study for the rest of his life. These included a withering a scorn for Platonic and all forms of Neoplatonic metaphysics; a fierce loathing of all “priestcraft” whose practitioners he held guilty of deliberately perpetrating rank superstition for centuries, thus maintaining their own power; a serene conviction that Jesus’ moral teaching was entirely compatible with natural law as it may be inferred from the sciences; and a unitarian view of Jesus. These features are all well attested in his voluminous private correspondence.
    .
    Jefferson’s earliest writings on religion exhibit a natural theology, a heavy reliance on reason, and the belief that morality comes not from special revelation but from careful attention to the inward moral sense. In a letter to his nephew Peter Carr in 1787, Jefferson advised, “Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god.”
    .
    He considered Jesus the teacher of a sublime and flawless ethic. Writing in 1803 to the Universalist physician Benjamin Rush, Jefferson wrote, “To the corruptions of Christianity, I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing he never claimed any other.”

    .

    This original project of 1804, which he titled “The Philosophy of Jesus,” he refined and greatly expanded in his later years. The final product, completed in 1820, he called the “Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth,” which was the version Congress published. Jefferson’s “Life and Morals” argues no theology. It is simply his edited version of the Gospels. He literally cut out the virgin birth, miracle stories, claims to Jesus’ divinity and the resurrection.

    .
    http://www25.uua.org/uuhs/duub/articles/thomasjefferson.html

  • Cliff

    The Wikiquote page has a lot of good Jefferson quotes:
    .
    He says ‘neither Pagan nor Mahomedan nor Jew ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the Commonwealth because of his religion.’ Shall we suffer a Pagan to deal with us and not suffer him to pray to his god? Why have Christians been distinguished above all people who have ever lived, for persecutions? Is it because it is the genius of their religion? No, it’s genius is the reverse. It is the refusing toleration to those of a different opinion which has produced all the bustles and wars on account of religion. It was the misfortune of mankind that during the darker centuries the Christian priests following their ambition and avarice combining with the magistrate to divide the spoils of the people, could establish the notion that schismatics might be ousted of their possessions & destroyed. This notion we have not yet cleared ourselves from.
    .
    .
    …that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry; and therefore the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust or emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religions opinion, is depriving him injudiciously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow-citizens, he has a natural right
    .
    .
    Jefferson doesn’t really fit into our modern day notions of left and right, he has a lot of statements about the necessity of owning weapons and railing against the government overtaxing its peoples.
    .
    But one thing’s for sure, he wasn’t a fire-breathing Bible humping Jesus freak like our buddy Rusty here.

  • 70northsullivan

    ‘In the year of Our Lord” and variations thereof are merely idioms- just a conventional formula for expressing dates during the period, revealing nothing about the speaker’s private beliefs. It has been well-documented for many years that Jefferson denied the divinity of Christ, which in most modern denominations I am aware would disqualify one from being considered a ‘Christian’ (although he admired him as a moral teacher). There is much material in Jefferson’s own hand which attests to his beliefs (or lack thereof.) There’s just not a lot of room for speculation.

  • m0mentom0ri

    “How about this idea, why don’t you just simply eat $hit and die quickly???”
    .
    Ladies and gentlemen, the right-wing in all its glory. This is the some total of their argument. This is their philosophy.
    .
    “How about this idea, why don’t you just simply eat $hit and die quickly???”
    .
    Unemployed and can’t find a job? Don’t have health insurance and need to take your child to a doctor? Are you a senior citizen expecting to collect Social Security? Wanna know what the right-wing thinks?
    .
    “How about this idea, why don’t you just simply eat $hit and die quickly???”
    .
    It doesn’t matter the topic – international diplomacy, immigration, race relations, freedom of expression and religion. What’s the grand idea from the right-wing?
    .
    “How about this idea, why don’t you just simply eat $hit and die quickly???”
    .
    Thanks you, Rusty for the most succinct and sincere expression of your ideology you’ve ever presented. Whenever we want to know the right-wing solution to a problem we can just remember:
    .
    “How about this idea, why don’t you just simply eat $hit and die quickly???”

  • sue_n

    I don’t have the heart (or the stomach) to watch. Gohmert is my rep (God, how I hate that!), and I can well imagine the hate and paranoia he’s spewing.

    Just, y’all, please, PLEASE remember that not all of us in my poor and sanity-forsaken state of Texas are like this. And if you can and are of a mind to, send some coin Bill White’s way and help him unseat Gov. Goodhair.

    Now I’m going to slink away in shame …

  • m0mentom0ri

    “rabid leftist who represent themselves on this site would think if Timothy McVeigh’s family erected a memorial near the OKC site would say about that?”
    .
    A) There are several Christian churches within a few blocks of the OKC bombing.
    .
    B) There is no a proposal to build a memorial to the 9/11 hijackers near ground zero. That is your continued bigoted inability to distinguish a terrorist from a Muslim.
    .
    I eagerly await your usual spittle-infused string of juvenile insults masquerading as a response. With a little luck, you’ll call me a ‘libtard’, that’s always been one of my favorites.

  • Cliff

    I love it.
    .
    “So, Rusty, tell us your favorite quote from Jesus?”
    .
    “How about this idea, why don’t you just simply eat $hit and die quickly???”
    .
    “Hey, Wall Street, we were wondering if you could spare some of your billions of dollars for our starving families.”
    .
    “How about this idea, why don’t you just simply eat $hit and die quickly???”
    .
    “I don’t think starting a war with Iran is a good idea. Maybe we should try talking to them first.”
    .
    “”How about this idea, why don’t you just simply eat $hit and die quickly???”

  • apr2563

    Cliff: Thank you for your contributions. Too many of the dominionists and strict constructionists on the right choose not to acknowledge the sophistication and nuanced philosophies of our founders. Most of them were products of the Age of Enlightenment. After living under royal fiat, dogma was not of interest to the Jeffersons, Franklins, etc.

  • apr2563

    Thanks for posting this Paul. I didn’t know that part of the suffrage history. Here’s to Harry and his mom!

  • apr2563

    Falwell and Khomeini are dead but too much of their evil lives on.

  • groenhagen2

    There is a difference between having the right to do something and actually doing it. For example, the liberals here the right to say many stupid things. However, it would be better for them not to exercise that right since it exposes their extremism. Those behind the Cordoba House (study the history of Cordoba to understand the history behind that name) may have the right to build a mosque on hallowed ground, but, given the sensitivities of those opposed to its construction on that site, they would be wise to find a new location. And Sorensen implies that the opposition to the mosque is from just Republicans. Sixty percent of New Yorkers oppose its construction. I’m fairly certain that Republicans make up a far smaller percentage of New Yorkers. Powell’s endorsement of the man-child Obama was based on race and nothing more than race.

  • Cliff

    No worries, sue_n, I live in the great state of Arizona, which has brought you such delightful people as John McCain, Jon Kyl, JD Hayworth, and Rick Renzi.

  • Cliff

    Thanks, apr. I’ve been getting involved with a Unitarian church lately, and Jefferson is a big figure in their history, so I was well prepared to push back on this issue.

  • Friar Tuck

    So, if I’m late to my Tri-Lateral Commission cell meeting, does that make me libtardy?
    .
    “How about this idea, why don’t you just simply eat $hit and die quickly???”
    .
    Wow! it really is the answer to every conceivable question!
    .
    The “Sleeping White Giant” strikes again. Awesome.

  • 53_3

    Uh, Rusty?
    .
    knock, knock
    .
    You there?
    .
    Try this out for size:
    .
    Just because he wrote “the year of our Lord” has no legal meaning or historical significance.
    .
    It means that he is a Christian, and nothing more!
    .
    I guess if that is being an extremist, then where does that put you?
    .
    Eh, Rusty?
    .
    Here, sh!thead, fetch the stick…

  • Friar Tuck

    “the man-child Obama”
    .
    Why not just call him “boy” and have done with it?
    .
    That would involve saying something stupid that exposes your extremism, but then you do that every time you comment, so what’s the diff?

  • 53_3

    Oh, btw, sh!thead, er, I mean Rusty:
    .
    That is your interpretation, and a farfetched one at that. I doubt that the even the Supreme Court will weigh in that that outperforms that pesky First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America in terms of legal significance.
    .
    As for historical significance, it doesn’t do much more than confirm the fact that we all already know, and that is, that Christianity is the majority religion in the United States.
    .
    If you want a theocracy, Rusty, move to Iran…

  • 53_3

    There is always Pat Robertson, who rears his ugly head every morning on the “700 Club” to give you hope, apr.
    .
    Right wing Christian hate still lives…

  • apr2563

    http://www.washblog.com/story/2008/10/19/124936/95
    .
    I post this again to ask those on the right to
    please look at it and then tell us how Muslims have no right to express their faith in areas we do not designate as proper.
    .
    How many Muslims and illegal immigrants have to give their life in service to this country before you are satisfied they are at all worthy?

  • 53_3

    Friar, I always thought is was 42.
    .
    Douglas Adams said so…

  • 53_3

    “How about this idea, why don’t you just simply eat $hit and die quickly???”
    .
    Well, I would say that Rusty, er, I mean, sh!thead certainly has a way with making points about freedom.
    .
    I’m sure that the former residents of Rosewood would agree.
    .
    Or not…

  • groenhagen2

    “A) There are several Christian churches within a few blocks of the OKC bombing.”

    And exactly what does that have to do with Timoth McVeigh, moonbat?

  • groenhagen2

    Friar Smuck:

    “Boy” has racist connotations. “Man-child” concerns Obama’s attitude, not his race.

  • newfreedomblog

    Well cliffy, if you believe that Jefferson was a “Unversalist” I hate to blow your bubble, but you’ve been lied to.
    .
    They only lay claim to Jefferson and have not one document or shred of evidence to prove it what-so-ever. Only their claim.
    .
    But, as in all liberal fairytales, they still believe it is true.

  • 53_3

    Groeny:
    .
    This wasn’t:
    .
    “Powell’s endorsement of the man-child Obama was based on race and nothing more than race.”
    .
    There are plenty of supporting videos for context, groeny, in addition to Powell’s speech.
    .
    All you did was jump from one mud puddle to another…

  • 53_3

    I could explain in detail, groeny, because you’ve seen me in action.
    .
    I recommend strongly that you avoid race baiting…

  • m0mentom0ri

    “And exactly what does that have to do with Timoth McVeigh, moonbat?”
    .
    Moonbat. Nice. Very clever.
    .
    For the Google-impaired groen:
    .
    “In a recorded interview with Time magazine McVeigh professed his belief in “a god”, although he said he had “sort of lost touch with” Catholicism and “I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs.” Throughout his childhood, he and his father were Roman Catholic and regularly attended daily Mass at Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York. ”
    .
    Timothy McVeigh was a Christian. Christians worship in a Christian church. By right-wing logic, since a Christian committed the OKC bombing, it would be tasteless to build a Christian church near the hallowed ground of the OKC bombing. This is meant to illustrate the inanity of the right-wing position that since some Muslims were behind 9/11, it would be tasteless to build a Muslim mosque near the hallowed ground of the 9/11 attack. Its called a “parallel”.
    .
    I can draw you a picture, if that would help?

  • 53_3

    Good Rusty.
    .
    Sit…

  • m0mentom0ri

    All Muslims are not members of Hamas. Just like not all Christians are like you.

  • newfreedomblog

    Hey Adam, just one question.
    .
    If it has taken nearly a month for Obama to finally come out to support the mosque at ground zero. Was the reason it took so long they had to find a copy of the Constitution for Obama to read? I’m sure when they moved into the White House they burned all available copies or references to the Constitution, what do you think?

  • http://endoftherope.wordpress.com endoftherope

    Ahhhh, such eloquence indeed. Fantastic responses.

  • http://endoftherope.wordpress.com endoftherope

    Since you’ve failed to make any reasonable responses to all of my posts directed at you, I’ll make this one easy.

    It was the start of Ramadan and the speech made at the White House iftar. Why would he make the speech sooner? I couldn’t imagine a more appropriate time than he chose.

    Any response aside from “Eat $hit and die quickly”?

    P.S. I’m proud of you for not using the closet joke again.

  • Cliff

    Well cliffy, if you believe that Jefferson was a “Unversalist” I hate to blow your bubble, but you’ve been lied to.
    .
    Hmmm, who should I believe? An organization dedicated to justice, equality and compassion?
    .
    Or a wicked, ignorant, resentful, idolatrous racist who openly advocates for genocide against foreigners?
    .
    Tough call, tough call.
    .
    By the way, I’d also hate for you to blow my bubble, I don’t imagine you as a very attractive person.

  • http://lookinfromoutside.wordpress.com lookinfromoutside

    OK, first it was the Soviets, who were raising babies in the US (I think those were legal) so they could later attain important positions ans spy for the USSR; then it was the Latinos, having illegal babies so they can eventually take over and force everyone to (choose one: work for lesser wages, speak Spanish, take back Arizona, New Mexico and California); now it is the Muslims, who want to raise “home grown” terrorists.
    .
    Sheesh!

  • http://lookinfromoutside.wordpress.com lookinfromoutside

    BTW – I did try to watch the link you posted, Cliff; so sorry but I just couldn’t finish. I think there’s an amendment against “cruel and unusual punishment” and I’m claiming protection.

  • maverick2k9

    Rusty, While you are a confirmed blogwhore, god alone knows what you actually do for a living.
    -
    Meanwhile, Barack Obama is a duly elected President of the United States and he also taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1992 to 2004.
    -
    Linky: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media
    -
    So is it fair to assume that President Obama knows far more about the constitution than you do?

  • newfreedomblog

    Show your proof. Provide us with documents which in Jefferson’s own hand that states he is a Universalist or Diest.
    .
    You see my dear friend cliffy and other liberals on this site, you can’t.
    .
    You can however go to wallbuilders.com and see thousands of references to Jefferson and all the rest of the founding fathers and how they felt about religion, and in particular as to how they associated themselves with christianity. Not just some wacked out far left extremist liberal self-professed historian, but do the research yourself, read the original documents or copies from the original documents. Most in fact are even free!!!
    .
    I will say without a doubt, Jefferson may not have been as strong in his beliefs as say someone like Adams or some of the other founders. He did not belong in his adult life, just as I do not myself belong to any specific church. But, do not confuse not going to a specific church each and every Sunday as being less than any other christian in our beliefs. If you do, you will be sorely mistaken.

  • newfreedomblog

    You asked me a question to respond to endofrope?
    .
    No, more specifically you made a statement. A statement which I responded to.
    .
    Your statement as we look at it again was….
    .

    Please remove “freedom” from your name, it really shouldn’t be there.

    .
    That in turn received my statement back to you, which was….basically,
    .

    “Eat $hit and die quickly”

    .
    .
    Now I will ask a question to you rope-a-dope, which part of eat $hit or die quickly do you not understand?

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