Should The U.S. Kidnap WikiLeak’s Founder Julian Assange?

I guess those who care about international press freedom can take comfort in the fact that Marc Thiessen no longer works for the government. On the Washington Post website, the former Bush Administration speechwriter and harsh interrogation booster, offers his view of WikiLeaks and its founder Julian Assange. In short, Thiessen calls for the U.S. to basically declare war on Assange, or presumably any other individual or organization that publishes documents the U.S. thinks might harm national security.

Assange is a non-U.S. citizen operating outside the territory of the United States. This means the government has a wide range of options for dealing with him. It can employ not only law enforcement but also intelligence and military assets to bring Assange to justice and put his criminal syndicate out of business. The first step is for the Justice Department to indict Assange.

Military assets? Thiessen goes on to argue that the U.S. has the legal authority to effectively kidnap Assange from foreign soil, even if such a kidnapping violates international law. He cites a 1989 legal analysis by the Reagan Administration: “In other words, we do not need permission to apprehend Assange or his co-conspirators anywhere in the world.” We can, apparently, just put a bag over his head as he orders a cappuccino in some Icelandic coffee shop and drag him off to. . . well, anywhere we want.

To be clear, Assange’s crime, according to Thiessen, is intentionally receiving and republishing classified information, something that is done with some regularity in the United States by respectable and responsible reporters working for top flight news organizations. To adopt Thiessen’s view, one would effectively have to reject the Supreme Court’s opinion in New York Times Co. v. United States, the so-called Pentagon Papers case from 1971.

Concurring in that case, Justice Potter Stewart observed, “In the absence of governmental checks and balances present in other areas of our national life, the only effective restraint upon executive policy and power in the area of national defense and international affairs may lie in an enlightened citizenry — in an informed and critical public opinion which alone can here protect the values of democratic government.. . . . Without an informed and free press, there cannot be an enlightened people.”

Justice Hugo Black, with Justice William Brennan, added the following:

[W]e are asked to hold that, despite the First Amendment’s emphatic command, the Executive Branch, the Congress, and the Judiciary can make laws enjoining publication of current news and abridging freedom of the press in the name of “national security.” The Government does not even attempt to rely on any act of Congress. Instead, it makes the bold and dangerously far-reaching contention that the courts should take it upon themselves to “make” a law abridging freedom of the press in the name of equity, presidential power and national security, even when the representatives of the people in Congress have adhered to the command of the First Amendment and refused to make such a law. To find that the President has “inherent power” to halt the publication of news by resort to the courts would wipe out the First Amendment and destroy the fundamental liberty and security of the very people the Government hopes to make “secure.” No one can read the history of the adoption of the First Amendment without being convinced beyond any doubt that it was injunctions like those sought here that Madison and his collaborators intended to outlaw in this Nation for all time. The word “security” is a broad, vague generality whose contours should not be invoked to abrogate the fundamental law embodied in the First Amendment. The guarding of military and diplomatic secrets at the expense of informed representative government provides no real security for our Republic.

The fact that Assange is a foreigner seems to make these questions easier for Thiessen. But there is little doubt that Thiessen is endorsing a similar claim to “inherent power,” albeit through the military, that Richard Nixon asserted in 1971. (The irony should not be lost that Nixon later stepped down after his own misdeeds in office were disclosed by the press.) To read all the opinions in New York Times v. United States, see here.

Related Topics: julian assange, marc thiessen, wikileaks, White House
  • Latest on Swampland

    Obama to Submit His Budget to Congress on Monday

    President Barack Obama is pressing for investments in infrastructure while relying on familiar tax increases on the wealthy and corporations to claim progress on the federal deficit in his upcoming budget.

    Romney: I Was A 'Severely Conservative' GovernorHuffPost Politics

    Robert F. Bukaty / AP

    With Saturday Victories, Romney Retakes Control of the GOP Narrative

    Mitt Romney, the perpetually questioned front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination, had a rough week. Three embarrassing losses to Rick Santorum in Tuesday’s non-binding contests led to questions about Romney’s conservative bona fides just in time for GOP activists, gathering at their annual Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington, to collectively grumble about it. But in two narrow, largely symbolic victories on Saturday, Romney reclaimed the headlines. Never mind the details. He was winning again.

  • 53_3

    No.

  • shepherdwong

    Why bother? Just declare him an enemy combatant and blow him to bits from 15,000 feet (and never worry about the collateral damage).
    .
    It there anything too vile and anti-American for it not to be published on the pages of The Washington Post.

  • maurice2u

    America is #1. Everyone else on the planet exists at our pleasure. That tolerance can and will be removed without forewarning. That is all.
    .
    (That seems to be about the gist of it, no?)

  • sy2d

    Um, Thiessen is a clown’s clown.

  • maverick2k9

    The only people who deserve to have a bag over their head and shipped off, is Dubya and Cheney.
    -
    I wish some European country/Iraq does just that and tries them for war crimes at the ICJ in The Hague.

  • gysgt213

    No Michael. And by entertaining this and not comdeming it out right more stronging than you have here, you are in away inviting it to happen.
    .
    Listen Michael this is not an attack on you personally as a reporter, but from your post it does not appear to me that you completely understand that this is really not about Assange, nor the issue at hand. The leaks of these papers. This is about the United States Government making silent the press and making it a crime for you as a reporter to even have knowledge of the type of information leaked. If you think Obama or any future president would not dare do what this than you have not been paying attention to this as@holes.

  • http://nthmost.com nthmost

    God, these guys are stupid.

    The way to do it is to hire goons to rig his car with an ignition bomb, and then sit back and relax as the conspiracy theorists make the truth of what the government did look like crazy talk.

    Amateurs.

  • http://flounder73.wordpress.com pafro

    I’m surprised this d-bag didn’t suggest bombing Iran as a way of showing Wikileaks who’s boss.
    P.S. using a term like “harsh interrogation booster”, when “torture advocate” is much more correct, might just make you a bigger d-bag than Theissen.

  • maverick2k9

    Oh.. and Assange is an Australian citizen.
    -
    So you can’t keep him locked away in GITMO.

  • http://skekoa.tumblr.com/ Sterling Kekoa

    Yes, by all means, let’s kill the messenger. That will solve everything.

  • http://jchewitt.wordpress.com jckh

    Yes, kidnap him and torture him to death live on television. Open up telephone voting lines to determine which methods of torture should be used on him next.

    Let’s see some gore! Saw’s a popular movie here for a reason, right?

    Also, the United States is an enlightened democracy. It’s a force for human rights, free markets, and enlightenment philosophy.

    And everyone who opposes the iron will of the state should be splattered into a million meaty chunks.

    Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Fuhrer!

    Oh, uh, sorry, I don’t know what came over me just then. I meant to say “USA! USA! USA!”

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    maverick, if stupidity was a crime, you’d have been bagged at birth.

  • maverick2k9

    Now I know why you have the nickname “2thirdsrock”..
    -
    The concrete floor at the hospital must have suffered considerable damage when the nurse dropped you. You have a rock instead of a brain inside that thick skull of yours.

  • sevenoaks07

    This is a stupid post. Should the Wikileaks frounder arrange to have Michael kidnapped?

  • maverick2k9

    Did Thiessen suggest shutting down the internet as well?
    -
    Because thats the only way that wikileaks can be shut down. Assange is just one of the cogs in a distributed system that has been designed from the start to survive an all out attack from the govt.

  • jelperman

    Thiessen is not a “harsh interrogation booster”; he’s a sadist who gets a thrill out of kidnapping and torture. I wouldn’t be surprised if he turned up on To Catch A Predator. Face it, he’s a booster of TORTURE!

  • frosthazard

    NO

  • http://twitter.com/michaelscherer Michael Scherer

    Actually, no joke, Thiessen does sort of suggest that Obama shut down the Internet, or at least part of it:

    “Last year, the Obama administration stood up a new U.S. Cyber Command (USCYBERCOM) to “conduct full-spectrum military cyberspace operations” in defense of U.S. national security. With the stroke of his pen, the president can authorize USCYBERCOM to protect American and allied forces by eliminating WikiLeaks’ ability to disseminate classified information that puts their lives at risk.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/02/AR2010080202627.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

  • http://tinselwing.wordpress.com/ nicteis

    Now, now. If Michael used the word “torture” in connection with anyone connected, however remotely, with the U.S. government, that would make him shrill.

    And then no one would ever be permitted to take his mild protestations seriously again.

    Heck, he works for Time Magazine. If he were to use the word “torture”, at least without scare quotes, the editors would be forced to cut off his nose and ears and then put him on the cover as an example to the rest of us.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    Wooooo!

  • freeinpa

    One can always count on liberals to side with anyone who takes a position to discredit this country or place our soldiers in harm’s way but then whine like school girls when their patriotism is questioned.

    I guess this clown at Wikileaks is no worse than A sitting Dumo Senator fro Vermont who leaked classified documents from the Intelligence Ctm. But build the gallows for Rove for not outing a non-operative.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “To be clear, Assange’s crime, according to Thiessen, is intentionally receiving and republishing classified information, something that is done with some regularity in the United States by respectable and responsible reporters working for top flight news organizations. To adopt Thiessen’s view, one would effectively have to reject the Supreme Court’s opinion in New York Times Co. v. United States, the so-called Pentagon Papers case from 1971.”
    .
    Take one college class in International Relations as I first did at age 18 and the books and reading material include so much either recently declassified or technically still classified information that you will feel like you are joining the CIA.
    .
    Responsible journalists and authors very frequently get hold of and use classified information in their articles and books.
    .
    Arresting this man if he were a US citizen living here would be absurd. Going abroad and rendering him would be something from a an action adventure thriller.

  • nibblybits

    First, do not conflate the insane ravings of Marc Thiessen with US govt policy, at least not the current administration’s. He’s an a**wipe who should be locked up in the loony bin away from society.
    .
    Second, what Julian Assange did in regards to these leaked documents should be looked at with all seriousness, because his careless release of Afghani names will results in deaths. There can be real debate about whether the information in those documents should be in the public discourse — much of it probably should be — but to have a breach of this nature is a valid security concern.
    .
    I abhor the knee-jerk response to glorify such a leak, mostly from the left, with comparisons to the Pentagon Papers. These are not they. Instead, we’ve got low level raw data with no new revelations but just enough detail to give our enemy methods, tactics and worst of all, names of our allies who are now targeted for retribution. Where is the concern from the commenters here for those people? Instead, some here hail Assange as a hero. Sorry, but I just don’t see it that way.

  • http://buildingdystopia.wordpress.com HappyHarryHaller

    Um … ever heard of David Hicks?

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    I’m relieved. For a moment I thought it was Joe (I have neither the time or inclination) Klein who had suddenly decided that press freedom was worth defending from executive overreach.
    .
    MS on the other hand actually has a track record of thinking such issues are important.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.” –
    — Alexis de Tocqueville
    .
    This is the first amendment at stake.
    .
    If we lose our constitution and our freedom in the process of winning a war, then we have lost the war to terrorism and fear.
    .
    But since being a wingnut means that you exist in fear, you’d have no idea what I am telling you.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    For anybody who does not know, “Woo” is the sound 2/3rd makes when he has to squeeze on tight leather pants right after mousing what little hair he has left to go out and play Pat Benitar covers.
    .
    If I had to wear pants that tight, “Woo” is the sound I would make, too.
    .
    Wear boxers, myself. I like breathing room.

  • shepherdwong

    “I abhor the knee-jerk response to glorify such a leak, mostly from the left…Where is the concern from the commenters here for those people? Instead, some here hail Assange as a hero. Sorry, but I just don’t see it that way.”
    .
    I’m sorry but I just don’t see the glorification or the lack of concern for Afghan civilians, especially from the left. If anyone “hail[s] Assange as a hero” it’s because he’s directly and publicly taking on the biggest, baddest, killing, torturing and deceiving institution – the US military/clandestine services – that the world has ever devised, all based on the principle that their activities should not be kept secret from public view. Ostensibly, that principle serves “those people” better than a secret and unchecked US military. That’s what the left supports, no glorification necessary.

  • stuartzechman

    Whatever else is the case, that’s true, Dirks.
    .
    Ed Henry isn’t fit to tie Scherer’s shoes.

  • maverick2k9

    Make that “locked away forever in GITMO”.
    -
    Assange will probably write a nice lil book on his GITMO experience.

  • nibblybits

    Shepard, this is you on July 29th:
    “Actually, if the document leak (essentially by US military personnel) results in a shortened US presence in Afghanistan, which could mean far fewer Afghan and US troop deaths, even if some smaller number die as a result of the leaks themselves, it could be exactly that.”
    .
    http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/07/28/afternoon-miscellany/#comments#ixzz0vUyneOTT
    .
    I read that as a disregard for those Afghan informants who helped our side. Your personal grudge against the US military is blinding you to the real damage Assange has done.

  • nibblybits

    Sorry, Shepherd, I don’t know why I keep misspelling your name.

  • maverick2k9

    Thanks for responding. Appreciate it (I really do, despite my frequent rants against you :P ).
    -
    As for the Thiessen’s WP thesis on shutting down the interwebs, I dont have the time nor the inclination to read the crypto-fascist’s fantasy of Govt control over the internet.
    -
    So can we expect to see some “Hands off my internet” slogans at the next tea party rally, no?

  • kimfromsj

    Absolutely not!! You CANNOT blame the receiver of documents for posting to a website outside of the United States. The person who provided those documents should be the one to prosecute, IF in fact the documents were top secret and put lives in danger. The REAL problem here, however, is that the war is going so badly that a soldier felt he had to do that. THAT is a bigger concern to me. Leave Julian Assange alone! Focus instead on why the war is going this badly and what to do about it. The sooner we end these wars, the better. Then we won’t have to worry about ANY of this.

  • sasquatch08

    No he shouldn’t be touched.
    .
    According to the Supreme Court after The Pentagon Papers were released the First Amendment protects his and other journalists right to disseminate classified data if it is of “interest to the public”.
    .
    The people that stole the data and gave it to him may be prosecuted for theft of classified information and serve lengthy jail terms, however Mr. Assange is on safe legal grounds when he claims to be expressing free speech.
    .
    Does Mr. Assange care about the people who may go to prison for helping him? I have no idea, but that’s not really the topic being covered here anyway.

  • nibblybits

    None of those options are exclusive to each other. You can assess “why the war is going badly,” prosecute “the person who provided those documents,” AND “blame the receiver of those documents for posting to a website outside of the United States.” Why should Julian Assange be left alone if his decision to not redact these confidential documents results in the tracking down and execution of Afghan informants who helped our side? Certainly he could have prevented such disclosure if he so chose.

  • nibblybits

    Does he care about the lives of the Afghan informants he chose not to redact from the documents? From subsequent interviews he’s given, the answer seems to be, not much.

  • freeinpa

    Wear boxers, myself. I like breathing room.
    \
    And a tin foil hat.

    Now that everyone will need to poke out their mind’s eye for that image of your fat a*s sitting around your basement with your chucky dolls in your Boxers that you special order from Goodyear

  • nibblybits

    Though let me be clear that Marc Thiessen is a lunatic with no respect for the Constitution or human life. My guess is he is a sociopath who tortured small animals as a child.

  • freeinpa

    “If we lose our constitution”

    A document that serves as a punch line to liberals.THe left knows no end to protecting the criminals whether its illegal aliens, pedophiles or corrupt Congressman. The excuse machine rages on!

  • http://poorlypronouncedpopmusic.wordpress.com poorlypronouncedpopmusic

    When you think something like “patriotism” trumps “freedom of speech” you are detrimental to America, not a supporter of its virtues.

  • http://poorlypronouncedpopmusic.wordpress.com poorlypronouncedpopmusic

    PS: if you continue to address me or anyone else as a group entity like “liberals” or “the left”, I’m going to fall down laughing. This isn’t sports, you cognitive tumbleweed.

  • freeinpa

    Another worthless story from your failed education.

    Techincally still classified? WHen you read a newspaper and it says classified those aren’t intelligence documents. And the used car sales job you got was not a covert op.

  • stuartzechman

    Thanks so much for responding to commentary, Michael Scherer, it is always greatly appreciated.

  • http://poorlypronouncedpopmusic.wordpress.com poorlypronouncedpopmusic

    OH NO. A TRITE “TIN FOIL HAT” REPLY. WHAT WILL WE EVER DO. OH GOD OH GOD.

    Go back to supporting military nonsense and excusing the Patriot Act’s enormous expansion of government powers while you rant about government under Obama. Your political views are a joke.

  • stuartzechman

    When did you acquire “Your personal grudge against the US military,” shepherdwong?
    .
    I hadn’t realized that you had one, until nibblybits pointed it out, just now.
    .
    What did the US military ever do to you?
    .
    I know that you were arguing that Wikileaks’ exposure of a highly counterproductive war policy could ultimately save the lives of our service people by increasing the public demand for removal of our forces from a futile, wasteful occupation, but I read that as you not caring who dies.
    .
    Why do you hate the troops, shepherdwong?

  • http://poorlypronouncedpopmusic.wordpress.com poorlypronouncedpopmusic

    Anyone who would say “yes” to this is an enemy of free speech and the very virtues that America was founded upon.

  • formerlyjames

    Iceland and Belgium would do well to issue arrest warrants for this fool for seditious behavior inciting violation of their sovereignty. Do one for his buddy Cheney as well.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Lol@poorlypronounc…
    .
    That was funny.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    I was bringing up Professor Westerfield at Yale Summer School in the Summer of 1989.
    .
    Jane’s Defense is read by IR professors and contains many security leaks.
    .
    Everything in that Wikileaks, for example, is classified.
    .
    Why, when I told you that I had sold new Nissans for a short time when the topic came to hybrid cars that you keep on saying I sold used cars?
    .
    Is your tinfoil hat on too tight?
    .
    (I think I’ll just respond to everything you say now with “and a tinfoil hat!”)

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “The people that stole the data and gave it to him may be prosecuted for theft of classified information and serve lengthy jail terms..”
    .
    Agreed. They are subject to the military code of conduct and they, not the publisher, broke an agreement.

  • maverick2k9
  • 3xfire3

    nibblybits,
    .
    Thanks for having the courage, which few people on the left on this site have, to tell the truth about this release of confidential information.
    .
    Too many on the left certainly give the impression that they actually hate our country.
    .
    If their brother or sister was one of the people killed by this release of information, would they still take the side of this terrorist enabler?
    .
    They give Liberals a very bad name and greatly harm the Liberal cause.
    .
    More Liberals need to have the courage as you have shown to call them out.
    .
    Conservatives need to do the same when people on the right say things that are over the top.
    .
    We can disagree and still be civil. That’s the way Democracy is supposed to work.
    .
    Thanks again for your comments.

  • shepherdwong

    “Sorry, Shepherd, I don’t know why I keep misspelling your name.”
    .
    No worries, I doubt that Allen, Benette or Tadao Nakamaru would object (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061177/).
    .
    Anyway, you’ll have to take my word for it, I have no particular axe to grind against the US military, other than what can be reasonably based upon what they actually do – it’s quite an accomplished list, as a matter of fact – and I also worry for any noncombatant who is made to suffer from the decisions of military personnel and civilian leadership alike (the latter, obviously, holding greater responsibility), or even an NGO who exposes them in the name of governments not being able to maintain an endless and “futile, wasteful occupation,” without the informed scrutiny of the public in who’s name and wealth that “futile, wasteful occupation,” occupation is being conducted.
    .
    And that goes double for you stuartzechman!!

  • thisbiel

    Are you serious?

    Over a MILLION people have died violent deaths since Dick Cheney launched his 100 year war.

    Anything that will hasten the withdrawal of US forces overseas will save millions of lives.

  • flangej

    GO JULIAN GO !

  • swissArmyBrainBETA

    “I just don’t see any glorification…. oh and here’s why he is my hero!” -shepherd. 6.2

  • mathematicaster

    Of course not. I am not happy that classified info is being tossed about, but it is our responsibility to plug leaks, not to “plug” the publisher. How can anyone in his right mind listen to an advocate of torture and give his misbegotten thoughts the time of day?

  • Cliff

    I can’t believe I’m about to write this, but I really do appreciate Michael Scherer highlighting this issue.
    .
    I see it as a reasonably straightforward condemnation of Thiessen’s views. What it lacks in stridency it makes up for with facts and citations of legal precedent.

  • danielatlanta

    No, we don’t need to kidnap Assange. What we need to do is publish all of his personal information (addresses, private telephone numbers, telephone numbers of people he has called or called him, his financial data, credit card transactions and their numbers and PIN numbers, his medical history, his sexual activities, and so on). Assange says that it is okay for classified information to be published by anyone about anything, so let’s do to him what he did to this nation (and thus to me).
    -
    If this proposal seems objectionable, then you will have to agree that what Assange did was also objectionable and deserves no praise.

  • http://poorlypronouncedpopmusic.wordpress.com poorlypronouncedpopmusic

    freeinpa sounds like one of those people who is okay with denouncing Obama’s policy by saying he hasn’t taken any classes in Economics, then turning around and calling any class you DO take a “failed education.”

  • swissArmyBrainBETA

    good point patrick. also, excellent work freeinpa! the classifieds joke got a laugh. probably your #1 contribution here ever

  • http://poorlypronouncedpopmusic.wordpress.com poorlypronouncedpopmusic

    “let’s do to him what he did to this nation (and thus to me).”

    HAHAHAHA. America = you? You’re that blinded by group identity?
    ……………………You’re one of those people who says “we won” when a sports team wins, aren’t you?

  • http://poorlypronouncedpopmusic.wordpress.com poorlypronouncedpopmusic

    “Too many on the left certainly give the impression that they actually hate our country.”

    This is backward. People on the right care more about a military-industrial and a terrorist boogeyman than the virtues that our nation was founded upon. When you advocate for Military > Free Press, you’re no better than the Chinese authoritarians you rail against.

  • shepsil

    I must say, that I am a little taken aback, finding myself commenting on a “Time” website!

    I have not read a Time mag. for years and had thought you were going down the same drain as many other dead tree media outlets.

    So I am pleasantly suprised to see you covering wikileaks and Mr. Assange.

    Your article headline, should the US kidnap Mr. Assange, is childish. I believe he is at the forefront of the changes we need in the world to survive as a civilization. I suggest that this will become a situation like your Pres. Bush had hoped for, that you are either for these changes or not. If TIME is for these changes, then get on board and stop trying to please your conservative masters or quit working for TIME.

    But, if you had to ask the question, then you are likely already doomed!

  • http://chucksterw.wordpress.com chucksterw

    I find it incredible, and horribly sad, that most of the people commenting here don’t seem to give a darn about the people who have already have been, and will be, murdered just so this jackass can have his moment of notariety.

    How would you feel if your parents, or your brother or sister, were murdered just so Julian Assange can say “look at me”?

    For the record, I don’t agree with the war either. I didn’t vote for Bush and Cheney and can’t stand either of them. Nonetheless, that does NOT condone what this guy did. People will die because of this and Julian Assange should be prosecuted for each and every death that results from his release of these documents.

    Had he removed these people’s names, I could care less, but he didn’t have the common decency to do so. That by itself tells me all I need to know about him. I hope he’s picked up wherever he is and brought to justice.

    To NOT bring this guy to justice would be unAmerican. There’s a difference between freedom of speech and getting people murdered.

  • maverick2k9

    As a private citizen, Daniel, you are free to go ahead and do it.
    -
    But dont advocate that the govt can do it. Why? For starters:

    A. It hits the brick wall called the constitution.

    B. it also hits the brick wall called conservative ideology – you know the small government – Hands off my internet and hands off my credit card details variety :)

    I guess the tea bagger conservatives (not you, Daniel) forget all about personal responsibility and ownership mentality, when they actually want the govt to do something for them!

  • http://poorlypronouncedpopmusic.wordpress.com poorlypronouncedpopmusic

    The elephant in the room is that you don’t know that at all and you’re just hypothesizing. But if you’re going to play that game, fine. People would die from NOT releasing this. If we continue the lie that the war is successful we let many more people die than we do by releasing these documents.

  • http://poorlypronouncedpopmusic.wordpress.com poorlypronouncedpopmusic

    PS: the unAmerican thing is to give the government carte blanche to do whatever they want. The American thing to do, and the democratic thing to do, is to have a check on the powerful, and a constant and open interrogation of the government.

  • http://tinselwing.wordpress.com/ nicteis

    To be clearer, my barbs are not directed at MS, whose takedown of Thiessen, however mildly phrased, is a public service. They’re aimed at at the weird pussyfooting political correctness so strictly enforced by mainstream news media.

    In the blogosphere, people are allowed to be honest. The price is not to be taken seriously. It is unclear whether the careers of credentialed folk like Michael could survive if they picked up their little hammers and smashed the “If an American does it,that means it isn’t torture” barrier. (Cf. Nixon’s “If the President does it…”) If it would truly be fatal, it’s a good thing that some at any rate are willing to offer genteel criticism within the bounds of the imposed Orwellian language parameters. But it sure would be nice to see a handful of them pick up those little hammers and find out.

  • http://www.techcomet.com abhiroopb

    No citizen of the US can be brought to trial for war crimes because it is not a party to the ICC (International Criminal Court – the ICJ no longer exists) treaty.

    The only way, for example, Cheney can be brought to trial is if he lands in a country that is a party to that treaty and they arrest him.

    However, even that is highly unlikely since the US have bilateral agreements with most countries that forbid exactly this course of action.

  • http://andielanetaggart67.wordpress.com andielanetaggart67

    So blessed to have WikiLeaks. At least the transparency
    of what has befallen the peoples of Iraq and Afgh has become
    common knowledge and needs to be exposed. I watched
    Collateral Murder and could not believe the cruelty dealt to
    these sacrifices for what. And laugh about their kills.
    Is this what the American soldier is really all about-the thrill
    of killing. Genocide, pure and simple. In the movies, these
    are sports. But, there fictional, aren’t they?
    Thank you Julian and God bless. Hope sweet Jesus is
    with you always.

  • kingsbridge77

    What’s with the ridiculous “harsh interrogation booster” euphemism for torture advocate?

  • sasquatch08

    Does crying bring them back? Does pulling out of Afghanistan do it? Does being liberal? Does being conservative? No, none of those things help the dead. They’re dead, they can’t be helped.
    .
    Leave now, without a concrete plan and a decent government and we’ll be back in 10 years to kill another million people (half of whom will be civvies) and those that have died so far will have died for nothing when the Taliban/violent extremists take back over.
    .
    There’s a difference between being liberal or conservative and being realistic.

  • sasquatch08

    Before you go condemning average PFC’s perhaps you should try to understand them. Maybe walk a mile in their shoes?
    .
    Until you have the stones to do that try reading “On Killing” by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman so you can find out what these people really go through.
    .
    Hint: PTSD is not generally caused by watching friends die or getting shot at, it’s caused by killing other human beings and feeling guilty about it. Laughing about the effed up stuff you do is a coping mechanism that fails rapidly upon reintegration to society at large. Those homeless vets on the streets are the ones you’re condemning, and they’re victims too.
    .
    Expand your knowledge on a subject before you insert your foot into your mouth.

  • http://funkycoolmedina.wordpress.com funkycoolmedina

    But we all should worry what happens when the WikiLeaks cases wind their way through the courts and end up in the laps of today’s Supreme Court, which has proved time and time again to be patrician lackeys for the powerful who have repeatedly voted to keep us all servile to big business and our government masters.

  • http://funkycoolmedina.wordpress.com funkycoolmedina

    Hear, hear. WikiLeaks may be experiencing growing pains, but it also shows how anemic the U.S. press has become. I’m dangerously close to thinking of Julian Assange as my hero.

  • ricardo4max

    Exactly Daniel. Let the punishment fit the crime.
    Just as the First Amendment cannot provide protection for those that yell “FIRE” in a crowded theater, it also does not provide protection for those that intentionally put America and Americans at risk by revealing confidential information.
    It also does not protect those that are not American citizens. This is something that the anti-American left is always trying to do, give “rights” to non-citizens that are NOT protected by our Constitution.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Let the punishment fit the crime?
    .
    Bush and Dick got hundreds of thousands killed.
    .
    Follow that reasoning the Iraqi victims of bombs which missed their targets should be allowed to execute those two right after killing their families in front of them.
    .
    Apply the overly simplistic eye for an eye philosophy and then apply it to people driven to fight against us and see where it goes.
    .
    You don’t want to go there.
    .
    BTW: I do oppose the death penalty and am not advocating “eye for an eye”. I am putting that line of thought out there.

  • michaelfury

    If Assange were not a US intelligence asset managing a limited-hangout honeypot (where is Bradley Manning, exactly?), he would have been bagged long ago rather than continuing to rant in corporate media interviews.

    But then, so would have this guy:

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2010/03/08/the-talented-mr-pearlman/

  • http://tultepec.wordpress.com/ Banjo Lawson

    No.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    something that is done with some regularity in the United States by respectable and responsible reporters working for top flight news organizations.

    .
    Yeah. Leaked by people like Karl Rove and Scooter Libby to reporters like Matt Cooper and Judy Miller.
    .
    I guess the Post will be permanently off Assange’s list of possible recipients of future leaks….
    .
    h/t emptywheel

  • 3xfire3

    poorlypro,
    .
    You are probably the person that as a child, yelled fire in a crowded theater and then claimed you were only exercising your right of free speech.
    .
    Assange will have blood on his hands but that’s alright with you. Free speech comes with responsibilities. Apparently you don’t understand that.
    .
    Your perception and opinions are not facts. They are only your distorted views.
    .
    You enjoy the freedoms of our country but appear to not like it very much. Too bad.

  • 3xfire3

    poorlypro,
    .
    I thought it was impossible for a person to be a total idiot at a level above IQ53 and Patrick. You have proven me wrong.
    .
    You are now the Number 1 Idiot on Swampland.
    .
    Congratulations. No one has ever achieved this status so quickly. You are a very special loon.

  • 3xfire3

    A large majority of the Leftist posting here appears to support Assange and his evil work. Some of you appear to consider him a hero.
    .
    If there was ever proof of the reasons why the vast majority of American Citizens want nothing to do with the Left and its political philosophy, it is certainly illustrated here.
    .
    Your distorted political views are a disgrace to our noble country. You claim to love your country but apparently that is a lie. No one who truly loves his country could hold the loony, hateful views you have of its leaders and citizens.
    .
    How the few rational Liberals on this site can sit back and not call these fools out is hard to understand.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    3X,
    .
    In multiple totally non-secret, easy to get, non-classified sources including Counter-terrorism adviser (of three presidents, Bush Sr, Clinton and dubbya) Richard Clarke’s book Against All Enemies, Bob Woodward’s Plan of Attack among other books, in Newspapers such as the Boston Globe and the New York Times there was considerable information to clearly demonstrate that there were no WMDs but the lies of George W Bush cost hundreds of thousands of lives.
    .
    So, if we follow your standards of words resulting in deaths being a reason for prosecution, whatever wikileaks founder gets punished for, then Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld should, literally get one thousand times the penalty since their actions had caused, literally, one thousand times more deaths than these would have caused.
    .
    Unfortunately, you are a hypocrite.
    .
    If somebody backing your right wing ideology causes hundreds of thousands of totally preventable deaths, you wish to do nothing. If the publishing of classified material gets up to – but likely far less – than 100 people killed, you wish for the maximum penalty.
    .
    You have no integrity in your opinions and no consistency.
    .
    As I said, the source of the leak was a member of the military, had themselves sworn to secrecy and I do support that person’s full prosecution, but, wikileaks followed in the American tradition of the first amendment even if you dislike the potential result of less support for the Afghan War, which I, also, support.
    .
    I do not believe that people sworn to secrecy should be able to break the rules with impunity as a matter of principal if I agree with what the end results of their revelations are or not as I disagree with our leaving Afghanistan without a victory. Also, as a matter of principal, if I agree with the potential results or not, I believe in freedom of the press. I, also, believe just as we have sovereignty, we should not cross national boarders to kidnap people for crimes.
    .
    You have no principals, 3X. You float around condemning all who disagree with you no matter who they are and support any action of any person who agrees with you no matter who they are.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    3X,
    .
    As your Messiah said, “There ya go again”.
    .
    You’re acting like a street gang member defending anybody on your team without showing any interest in the principals of the American constitution nor the rule of law and make ad homenim attaks.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “You claim to love your country but apparently that is a lie.”
    .
    We love America not only because it is our home as you do and as you would love China, Russia, France, Zimbabwe if it were your home.
    .
    We love America for being a country which protects our rights.
    .
    Don’t forget that 53% of Americans voted for Obama and far more than that voted for Democratic members of congress.
    .
    You, my friend, are a part of the minority who’s views are classically Anti-American wishing our nation to become a military dictatorship and you and those with your views will not win a majority of the congress in November, a majority in the Senate nor retake the White house two and half years from now.
    .
    We are the patriots.
    .
    You are are the odd ball with a twisted ideology.

  • 53_3

    3xfire3:
    .
    When you carry Rusty the Racists’ “cojones”, please to keep up to date.
    .
    He and freeinpa have since revised their moniker for me to “IQ35″.
    .
    This is in recognition of the fact that freeinpa administered himself a severe beating (with a little help from me, of course) over the reliability of oxygen isotope biochemostratigraphic data as a source for paleotemperature curves.
    .
    So please, when you are insulting me, use the new “IQ35″ moniker.
    .
    Thank you. That is all…

  • 53_3

    He must have taken a particularly bad beating a few weeks ago to wait this long before poking his head above water again.
    .
    Did anyone ever mention that holding these guys accountable is more like “Whack-A-Mole” than anything else?

  • http://charlieag.wordpress.com charlieag

    The US Gevernment must clean up its act.
    Kidnap a foreign national aboard!
    If this should happen, then great harm would be
    caused to the reputation of the US of America.
    In addition: US citizen could not feel safe any where
    in the world.
    My advise to the Guvewrmewnt is to search for legal
    advice in Europe.
    However, I doubt that any Guvernment, in Europe,
    would extradite the person in question.

  • 3xfire3

    IQ35,
    .
    “He must have taken a particularly bad beating a few weeks ago to wait this long before poking his head above water again.”
    .
    No I was out of town doing some volunteer work. Apparently something you would know nothing about.
    .
    I see you’re your normal hateful self. I was hoping that after being gone for a little over a week you might have improved as a human being. No such luck. You’re still as ridicules as ever.
    .

    Besides there no Leftist on this site capable of giving this very wise old man a good beating. That’s only in your dreams.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “No I was out of town doing some volunteer work.”
    .
    You live in Toledo and left town to do volunteer work?
    .
    I thought that you went to Toledo to help the poor.
    .
    I saw your stats for the city of Toledo and, man, you’ve got my help with that impoverished little place if I have the chance to leave town.
    .
    There are parts of Haiti, Sub-Saharan Africa and on the Indian Subcontinent poorer than Toledo.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Besides there no Leftist on this site capable of giving this very wise old man a good beating. That’s only in your dreams.”
    .
    You’re such a modest man.
    .
    In terms of age, I know two men in my neighborhood who I run across nearly on a daily basis who would call you a kid.
    .
    That’s not to mention that, until a few years ago I had relatives who had children your age.

  • 3xfire3

    Patrick,
    .
    You’re still an idiot.
    .
    I don’t live in Toledo and I never said I did. There is a very good organization there that I do support. It’s called “The Cherry Street Mission” and they do great work with the homeless. My wife and I have been providing support to them for closed to 20 years.
    .
    We also provide support for Haiti and several other countries in the Caribbean, Central America, Africa, and Asia. We do most of this support through organizations such as “Food for the Poor” and CFCA [Christian Foundation for Children and the Aged] both of which are great organizations.
    .
    We also support many other organizations such as Doctors without Boarders. My wife and I both do volunteer work to help the poor in our community and sometimes at other locations.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Doctors without Boarders.”
    .
    I donated my car to them.
    .
    They are a great charity.
    .
    Imagine putting all of those years into medical school, being offered an annual pay of about $250k/year in a comfortable suburban town and, possibly, even having your office connected to your house to bring your commute down to 0 minutes and, instead, going to the worst parts of the world, riding down dirt roads as the refugees are headed right towards you fleeing the mess you are going into and working for them.
    .
    Now, those are people who really, really are dedicated!
    .
    I can imagine that some either start or end their career in the comfortable suburbs, but, still, those are true givers, doctors without boarders.
    .
    BTW: your story was that you won an award for the Greater Toledo area. Obviously that does not mean that you live within the city limits, but, as I had referred to you as being from that area before you never corrected me.
    .
    So, when I say “Toledo” I mean a ten to twenty mile radius around Toledo just as anything within a 60 mile radius of Manhattan is considered the New York Tri-State area.

  • http://tureandaniel.wordpress.com tureandaniel

    yes

  • 53_3

    At least you’ve corrected the moniker.
    .
    It was certainly worth it. Freeinpa took one of the worst beatings he ever got. I enjoyed it thoroughly.
    .
    And if you really believe that I’m ridiculous and factless, then maybe you should bring your bag of tricks to the table, again.
    .
    You will find trying to argue science, especially earth science, when armed with only political opinions is every bit as hazardous as trying to argue about the nature of the Black community with someone who has 40 years of experience, when you are only armed with ignorance.
    .
    The outcomes are predictable

  • http://zaphodbblx.wordpress.com zaphodbblx

    Personally it makes me ashamed to be an american if this question is seriously being asked at any level.

  • nibblybits

    I accept your compliments, 3x, if you will also agree with me that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld are responsible for many more needless deaths than Julian Assange’s careless actions, and that they should be prosecuted for war crimes.
    .
    As for Stuart, why don’t you try reading to what I was responding to? Then you won’t look foolish in defending Shepherd, who is most capable of refuting me if I misstated his attitude towards the ‘US military/clandestine services.’ (He doesn’t seem to be a fan.)

  • cp4ab0lishm3nt

    The US should not kidnap Julian Assange. If the US kidnap him then the American Government is committing a serious crime. Review the criminal cyber and intellectual property laws against Julian and if possible institute legal suits or torts against Julian as well. I am sure there should be laws which protects American interests abroad and within the borders. Julian’s company and himself committed ‘treason’ which is still punishable by death under the Federal Statutes. The First Amendment right does not perpetuate an individual to steal state secrets and published them, if it is a threat to the nation’s security interests. I am a liberal person but when it comes to such pranks I am against it totally.

  • thisbiel

    Yes they are dead and that’s the crime of this century without a doubt, and it wasn’t Hitler or Milošević it was the Great U.S.A – the land of the free with the collective blood on it’s collective hands. – “We will force you to be free…” American Jack boots.

    The Taliban would never have lasted long without the binding effect of the American invasion. They were already beginning to fight amongst themselves, At least they purged the country of heroin production. (Oops – it’s now back…) And now thanks to Assange, Pakistan will find it hard to bring them back.

    Afghanistan is Afghanistan and will always be Afghanistan no matter who tries to dominate it. When will the world learn to leave this beautiful country alone?

    Nobody has the right to “go back there” and impose their idea of order.

  • http://poorlypronouncedpopmusic.wordpress.com poorlypronouncedpopmusic

    3xfire3, you are not qualified to speak about childhood when you are barely an adult.
    .
    You are a person who contributes to the idea of a large, powerful government that stomps upon its foundations while simultaneously denouncing it when its purpose is to save lives.
    .
    You are a person who cares more about military might and physical power than truth, than justice, than freedom of speech.
    .
    You are a person who would rather squash someone presenting the truth of a horrible war and hide behind the cowardly lie that more lives would be saved without this information than with it, or the lie that the government knows best, or the lie that people in power can’t go wrong.
    .
    You have a caveman mentality and a backward worldview. You are an anchor on our society. You identify with “America” the name, but you ruin America the nation. YOU ARE THE PROBLEM, YOU ARE THE CANCER, YOU ARE THE WEIGHT ON THIS COUNTRY’S BACK.

  • http://poorlypronouncedpopmusic.wordpress.com poorlypronouncedpopmusic

    3firewhatever,
    ………………….So you REALLY DO THINK that America = you? You think that THE ENTIRETY OF THIS COUNTRY equals you, don’t you? You really do. You vicariously think that you embody America, like you’re the mascot for it or something. Oh my god. Hahahahahahahaha.

  • http://poorlypronouncedpopmusic.wordpress.com poorlypronouncedpopmusic

    PS: If you’re going to play the IQ card, you should know that IQ is negatively correlated with conservative views.

  • http://poorlypronouncedpopmusic.wordpress.com poorlypronouncedpopmusic

    So essentially, your point is OH MY GOD THE LEFT OH MY GOD THE LEFT OH MY GOD THE LEFT. No one “considers” Assange a hero; he is one.
    .
    But now on to you. It takes a lot of work to become such an intellectual trainwreck, because not anyone can become as catastrophically bad as you on accident.
    .
    What can I say? You are an embarrassment. You think that upholding free press is a disgrace? Jesus christ you’re a disaster. You don’t know the first thing about being an American. And the most hilarious thing is that you’re probably going to respond with hilariously bad ad hominems like “loon”, or “moon bat”, or “tin foil hat”, or even IQ which is even more hilarious because it’s negatively correlated with everything you believe in. Go picket an abortion clinic, you backward trash.

  • http://poorlypronouncedpopmusic.wordpress.com poorlypronouncedpopmusic

    Don’t worry everyone, tureandaniel just posted under the assumption that it was opposite day.

  • Ike Jakson
  • fckdpgov

    The USA could and prove to the world that they are a true terrorist nation, absolutely without morals, honor and beyond redemption.

  • http://aajer.wordpress.com aajer

    Wikileaks, unfortunately, is all we have in the way of
    unfettered truth telling. We sure as hell dont get it from
    the conventional media.

  • kfreed

    Not bringing this guy to justice would be un-American? Whose justice are we talking about? Yours? And let’s discuss that American justice for a moment, shall we?

    I’m good with criticizing Wikileaks for releasing the names of Afghan informants, an act which may or may not cause them harm. Not that they couldn’t apply for protection and receive it, now could they? Were thinking, empathetic human beings running the show, the first priority would be to remove them from harm’s way. Or has this obvious solution not crossed anyone’s mind? Naturally not… the solution, in the eyes of the brain dead, is to ‘ blow a journalist into meaty little chunks’ or some such crap. Prosecute him? For what exactly? Never mind… let’s just make something up, eh?

    But I have to say, I find it rather telling that the feigned concern for these particular Afghan individuals on the part of the neocons looms so large as to entirely blot out the more than 100,000 Iraqi civilian deaths (never mind combatants from the various nations having taken part in the war effort, including our own) over US oil interests in the Middle East. Never mind that we may never know how many Iraqis actually died thanks to Bush, Cheney & Co. because nobody ever really bothered to count. Which begs the question: how are these lives suddenly sacrosanct as compared to the innocent civilians we killed in the name of corporate loot? How is it exactly, that you perps measure the value of one human life as compared to another? That would be an explanation for the ages, and I’d so love to hear it so that I can have it framed for the sake of posterity.

    When you neocon airbags get yourselves cured of the kill-them-all-and-make-excuses-later mindset, then perhaps your self-serving hypocrisy won’t so much make us want to retch, until then, spare us the fake concern for the sanctity of life melodrama. You people care as much about these Afghans as you do about any other existing life form – foreign or domestic. At the moment the pretense makes a convenient talking point and that’s the full extent of it. Then tomorrow, you’ll be advocating for an attack on Iran.

    Just shut up already. It’s repulsive.

    Assange, though misguided in some areas, is a journalist with every human right to expose the corrupt filth we insist in wallowing in. Those protesting the loudest are those with the most to answer for.

  • kfreed

    I’d say the ‘vast majority’ in this country is perpetually on the fence. One thing’s for sure, they certainly aren’t neocon teabaggers who keep blaming everything and everyone under the sun for the mess they’ve created… at home as well as abroad.

    Folks exactly like you will be the reason for our evantual blossoming into a third world nation, not Assange.

    In the words of your hero, Bush the Younger, “You can take that to the bank.”

blog comments powered by Disqus