In the Arena

The Wikileaks Tet Offensive

In early 1968, the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army launched a major offensive across South Vietnam. The U.S. embassy in Saigon was breached. The imperial capital of Hue was overrun. Eventually, U.S. and South Vietnamese forces defeated the attacks–in military terms, the Tet Offensive was a rout. But the military terms hardly mattered: Tet demonstrated the long-term futility of the U.S. mission in Vietnam. Walter Cronkite, the most respected newscaster in America, turned against the war. Lyndon Johnson decided not to run for another term; the Democratic Party shattered. Several years later, the New York Times–and several other newspapers–published a comprehensive secret history of the war compiled by the Department of Defense. The so-called Pentagon Papers were devastating. They proved that the U.S. government had lied repeatedly to the American people about the war; indeed, the government had fabricated one of the incidents in the Tonkin Gulf that led directly to the deployment of U.S. troops in large numbers on the ground.

The Wikileaks intelligence dump–more than 90,000 secret intelligence documents detailing the frustrations of the war in Afghanistan–has elements of both the Tet Offensive and the Pentagon Papers. But it seems more like Tet to me: the overall impact of this event is likely to make clear to a public, which has not been paying much attention, how futile the situation in Afghanistan is–and how utterly duplicitous our Pakistani “ally” has been.

The broad outline of the story is well known.  The Taliban was, in large part, a creation of the Pakistani intelligence services. The purpose was to prevent India from gaining control over Afghanistan. This relationship became an embarrassment after the Taliban took over the Afghan government in the late 1990s and instituted a draconian form of Islamic rule–and then offered a safe haven to the Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda terrorists. It became a dangerous embarrassment after the September 11 terrorist attacks. The Pakistanis were offered a choice by George W. Bush: with us or against us. The Pakistani dictator Pervez Musharraf chose, ostensibly, to be with us. Covertly, however, the Pakistani support for various Taliban elements continued. After the Taliban were overthrown, their leadership found a home in the western Pakistani city of Quetta. The Haqqani madrasa–an especially fierce branch of the Taliban, responsible for operations which resulted in the deaths of many Americans–had its headquarters operating openly within a mile of the Pakistani Army’s 10th division in North Waziristan. Osama Bin Laden and his circle relocated in Pakistan as well.

The Bush Administration chose to do nothing about all this; its focus was on Iraq. Worse than nothing: an open spigot of military aid was made available to the Musharraf government, most of which was directed against Pakistan’s perceived threat–the border with India. The story changed a bit when Barack Obama became President. With the focus back on Afghanistan, the Obama Administration began to pressure the Pakistanis about their ties to the Taliban. At the same time, a Pakistani branch of the Taliban began terrorist operations against the post-Musharraf government of Asif Ali Zardari. A Taliban force overran the Swat district, an area 90 miles from the capital of Islamabad that had been a favored site for the vacation villas of the Pakistani elite.

The situation seemed to change over the past 18 months. The Pakistani army reacted to the Pakistani Taliban threat. The extremists were cleared from Swat and South Waziristan. Pakistani intelligence helped target some of the drone attacks launched against Al Qaeda and Pakistani targets. But there were no drones directed against the Afghan Taliban leadership congregated in Quetta. And the Haqqani madrasa continued to operate openly a mile away from the 10th Pakistani division.

In recent months, negotiations between Afghanistan and Pakistan have opened the possibility of a peace deal–with the Haqqani network standing down in return for some sort of power-sharing agreement between the Karzai government and the Taliban in the Pashtun lands on the Pakistani border. This is a very controversial proposition within the Karzai government; most of the military and intelligence apparatus is non-Pashtun and terrified of a Taliban return. It seems entirely possible that the Wikileaks trove emanated from Afghan intelligence sources trying to quash a deal–although the overall effect of this leak could be exactly what the Afghan intelligence service doesn’t want. (add: it’s also possible as Michael Scherer points out above that a U.S. intelligence analyst may have been responsible for the leak.)

A successful outcome in Afghanistan always was dependent on two local factors, no matter how brilliantly the U.S. military performed: an honest, competent Afghan government and a true ally in Pakistan, which ceased its support for the Afghan Taliban elements operating from Pakistani soil. In the past year, we’ve learned that an honest, competent Afghan government is a fantasy. The Wikileaks gusher will now direct attention to the Pakistani side of the equation–and increase the public sense that the Afghan war is an exercise in futility. It remains to be seen whether the Obama Administration can wait until December, as planned, to reevaluate its Afghan strategy.

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  • sevenoaks07

    This is the third post on Wiki. Elsewhere in the blogo and in “The Media” people are finding evidence and justification for whatever line they wish to take. Some nuggets show how our troops rendered assistance, medical and material to locals. Others show serious mistakes. But overall I think we have seen much of this stuff reported. But there is nothing like a peek at raw at-source data. It would be interesting to understand the whittling and vetting process. Also, what stuff was “captured” to support a narrative or position. Also, what was left out to ensure that the narrative was held to its selected course.

    All that said and done it is difficult to argue the case for continuating to sacrifice our soldiers and resources in a futile attempt to put down the “enemy” and “build a nation”.

    But will that deter those who want to “bomb Iran”?

  • nibblybits

    “The Bush Administration chose to do nothing about all this; its focus was on Iraq. Worse than nothing: an open spigot of military aid was made available to the Musharraf government, most of which was directed against Pakistan’s perceived threat–the border with India.”
    .
    If Bush had done his job, we would have gotten bin Laden and top al Qaeda and dismantled them in Afghanistan….then gotten out. We should have been out by 2004-05. This is a quagmire of his making.

  • http://djtrudeau.wordpress.com djtrudeau

    Afghanistan is a conflict that has left us with no good alternatives. I do think Obama had an obligation to our military and the people we’ve made promises to in Afghanistan to see things through. I say that with a very heavy heart. I was never a supporter of the war in Iraq and I thought this one was a necessity at one point. It’s simply that things have degraded to a certain point where it’s a question of which bad conclusion we’re willing to live with.

    I’m sure the Republicans will take advantage of this. This will be their “proof” Obama is weak. I think they’ve long given up on any soul searching to see where they may have stepped wrong, creating the quagmire he’s now had to deal with. I also wonder how many Democrats will spend the rest of their lives trying to convince themselves they had no choice when they gave into fear and voted yes to the war in Iraq, setting the stage for failure in Afghanistan. I will also spend a good deal of time asking myself if I should’ve done more as a citizen to avoid this very thing.

    Whatever the result, a deal will have to be cut with the Taliban. They’ll have to know that they can exist in peace or team up with Al Qeda again and be harassed. I hate the group and everything they stand for but we can’t defeat someone our “allies” continue to prop up. Our best hope is that we’ve at least given some strength to groups who can keep them from overrunning the country again.

    This is Obama’s war now. We can’t blame him for Afghanistan being a mess. That will always belong to his predecessor. We can judge him on the maturity and intelligence he uses to deal with that mess. There will be room to criticize the actions he’s taken and what he does from here on out. Anyone who gloats about hm failing in any of these regards cares far more about their own prejudices than this country.

  • pneogy

    “..and how utterly duplicitous our Pakistani “ally” has been.”

    So, bribery and cajoling didn’t work, huh? Let’s face it – The “Arab/Pakistani streets” have rejected Western values and Western overtures. The rift is as wide as that between the West and the Soviets during the Cold War. We need to stop ignoring and wishing away our differences, and devise an appropriate containment policy that will replace ill advised invasions and drone strikes.

  • pintortwo

    If Bush had done his job, we would have gotten bin Laden and top al Qaeda and dismantled them in Afghanistan….then gotten out. We should have been out by 2004-05.
    .
    So true, well said. But I’ll add a qualifier: Bush had dismantled al Qaeda in Afghanistan- that’s according to Gen James Jones in Oct ’09 and CIA director Leon Panetta only a few weeks ago.
    .
    In ’05 the Bush administration announced a new plan in Afghanistan. Sec Def Rumsfeld wrote The National Defense Strategy (link) effectively changing the military’s focus from terror groups to building a network of bases in “four forward regions Europe, Northeast Asia, the East Asian Littoral, and the Middle East Southwest Asia.” Otherwise, we would have gotten out.
    .
    The “network of forward facilities and capabilities… using main operating bases (MOB), forward operating sites (FOS), and a diverse array of more austere cooperative security locations (CSL)” has been the Pentagon’s ambition since, to the detriment of our national security.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Often one of the hardest things for people to accept is that there are sometimes physical limits on what can be done to solve a problem. If we fail to understand that in the GWOT then certainly the BP spill and our continuing economic doldrums should remind us.
    .
    That’s why the people who insisty that we would certainly win> if we only had enough resolve are so harmful. The only thing they accomplish is upping the body count before the inevitable settlement occurs.

  • pintortwo

    Leon Panetta: “I think the estimate on the number of Al Qaeda is actually relatively small. At most, we’re looking at 50 to 100, maybe less. It’s in that vicinity. There’s no question that the main location of Al Qaeda is in the tribal areas of Pakistan.” -June 27, ’10 (link)
    .
    I think it’s safe to say that the number of al Qaeda operatives which remain are there to take shots at conveniently-located US targets and the “puppet-regime” we embrace.

  • michaelfury

    “’The terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 are still at large and plotting,’ he said, echoing Mr. Bush’s oft-repeated refrain.”

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/10/30/the-ones-who-attacked-us/

  • stuartzechman

    Joe Klein:
    .
    You knew, didn’t you?
    .
    You knew all of this, all along, and you still played along with the Administration’s “surge” doubling-down?
    .
    Am I right?

  • pintortwo

    Osama Bin Laden and his circle relocated in Pakistan as well
    .
    Mr. Klein, perhaps this is true, but do you know if this is relevant today?
    .
    CIA director Panetta feels it is likely that bin Laden was in Pakistan but that we haven’t had good intelligence on his wherabouts since “the early 2000s”- that was when U.S. officials had “the last precise information about where he (bin Laden) might be located” (link). Anything else is speculation.
    .
    For all we know, he may have been dead for years or not have a “circle” of influence at all. It is just as likely that there is no central command of al Qaeda in Af/Pak. Especially considering that Gen Jones said the small AQ contingent left in the area has “No ability to launch attacks on either us or our allies.”
    .
    To intimate that he is active in Pakistan is irresponsible and, IMO, is exactly what Pentagon hawks want you say in order to justify their mission.

  • pintortwo
  • timheth

    WikiLeaks also paints a picture of the precarious nature of US bases with the example of how one base called Camp Keating almost got overrun. Surprised? We’re not. We spent nearly a year off and on at a small outpost called Restrepo. The soldiers we were with often talked about the possibility of a catastrophic attack, and I was with US forces when their lines were overrun. The insurgents stripped weapons and ammunition from a dead American soldier and escaped. Two days later they nearly dragged off a wounded soldier alive. If you want another insight into the war, then watch our movie Restrepo to see for yourself – http://www.restrepothemovie.com

  • apache101

    True perhaps, but had President Clinton done his job, Osama bin laden wouldn’t have been alive for Bush to capture. Or, did you not know that President Clinton’s administration had been tracking bin laden for years before 9/11?

    Here you go:
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4540958/
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/sept01/2001-09-13-clinton-binladen.htm

    And while talking about the “open spigot of military aid,” why not mention the aid we sent to the mujahideen fighting the Soviets, led by, who was it again? Oh yeah: Osama bin laden. And where did all those foreign mujahideen go? Oh wait…they formed that group known as al-Qaida. And that was all in the late 70′s, early 80′s.

    The situation in Afghanistan isn’t JUST Bush’s fault; however, the fact that we went into Iraq and thereby ignored Afghanistan is.

  • pintortwo

    A successful outcome in Afghanistan always was dependent on two local factors..: an honest, competent Afghan government and a true ally in Pakistan, which ceased its support for the Afghan Taliban elements operating from Pakistani soil.
    .
    Is there any reason to assume that the Pentagon actually intended to achieve either goal?
    .
    A) “U.S. officials acknowledge that they plan to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to hire contractors to operate a complex of buildings in troubled Kandahar and other facilities in Afghanistan for the next 10 years.” http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jul/22/world/la-fg-afghan-buildings-20100723
    - We had no intention of fostering a “competent Afghan government” that could provide services to its people- the Pentagon planned to outsources the very functions that would determine its competency.
    .
    B) As Klein says: “The Taliban was, in large part, a creation of the Pakistani intelligence services.” It seems that the support never wavered:
    “(T)he relationship between Pakistan’s security services and the insurgency.. goes far beyond contact and coexistence.. (A)according to Taliban commanders the ISI orchestrates, sustains and strongly influences the movement. They say it gives sanctuary to both Taliban and Haqqani groups, and provides huge support in terms of training, funding, munitions, and supplies. In their words, this is ‘as clear as the sun in the sky’.” (to follow)
    - the Pentagon had to be aware of this relationship and the likelihood of it enduring. In fact, the Pentagon had to know that crushing the Taliban would serve to de-stabalize Pakistan.
    .
    Logic suggests an ulterior motive.

  • pintortwo
  • pintortwo

    Speaking for myself, I never intended to blame “just Bush”. Obama has had ample opportunity to change course, one could argue that he was elected to do so. IMO, history will show that the biggest mistake of the Obama administration was to not eliminate Petraeus, Gates, Mullen, McChrystal, Odierno, etc from the decision-making process immediately upon taking office and begin an as-rapid-as-possible extrication from Iraq and Afghanistan. He could have, he didn’t.

  • danielatlanta

    The release of this information has two components, the first, the military-political component covered by Klein’s analysis. The other is the security issue. As a combat veteran and someone who was sworn to protect America’s classified information, I am appalled that the information has been “leaked” in the media. The people who leaked the information should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law (I’d convict them to the maximum, as I would have done to Daniel Elsberg). There are inspector generals who can handle things if the military is covering up, but in no case should classified information be leaked to the media (online or otherwise) without going through proper channels and in compliance with security procedures. That’s what the Bush administration did to Valerie Plame; it was wrong then and it is wrong now.

  • sevenoaks07

    We have never had complete security in any war. Leaks have always played a part in changing the dynamics. This stuff following WaPo pieces last week serve to undermine the gunghoism that helps interested parties to push any White House. Seeded in our defense establishment are those for whom warfare is the first response. Look at the way our papers are filled with calls for bombing Iran. How come those who call loudly for yet another war don’t volunteer and don’t offer to pay for it.

    All that prosecuting leakers will do is shift the blame from the warmongering class to the junior players stuck in lonely outposts in Afghanistan in in battlefield headquarters. And, really, have we heard many of these allegations over time. What’s actually new?

  • danielatlanta

    Your logic is flawed, as the last sentence in your comment betrays. You have no idea what information might be critical to a secure operation or needed to protect life. That’s the mistake Scooter Libby made, assuming he knew best about what information could be leaked to the press. We elect officials to decide what should and should not be made public (and if we don’t like the way they are doing their job, we can vote against them, that’s the American system). We have inspector generals of each branch of the military and each department of government who handle whistle blowing. Individuals are not qualified to determine what may jeopardize the life of someone who is operating in a mission deemed classified. I served in combat in such a situation, and I would hate to think that you, Daniel Elsberg, or Scooter Libby were making decisions for whatever purposes that could affect my life as I was serving my country in good faith. War is dangerous and less than perfect, but leaking classified information to the press makes it even less so.

  • pintortwo

    danielatlanta, I understand your aversion to the “leaking of classified information” to the press or other. Certainly, we can all see the potential pitfalls.
    .
    However, Glenn Greenwald makes a compelling argument that it is the failure of the institutions that would normally provide oversight and criticism of public policy that necessitates information to be exposed this way and, in fact, provide a valuable service in doing so.
    .
    “At exactly the time when U.S. government secrecy is at an all-time high, the institutions ostensibly responsible for investigation, oversight and exposure have failed. The American media are largely co-opted, and their few remaining vestiges of real investigative journalism are crippled by financial constraints. The U.S. Congress is almost entirely impotent at providing meaningful oversight and is, in any event, controlled by the factions that maintain virtually complete secrecy…
    .
    The need for independent leaks and whistle-blowing exposures is particularly acute now because, at exactly the same time that investigative journalism has collapsed, public and private efforts to manipulate public opinion have proliferated.

    .
    - http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/03/27/wikileaks

  • stuartzechman

    The people who leaked the information should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law (I’d convict them to the maximum, as I would have done to Daniel Elsberg). There are inspector generals who can handle things if the military is covering up, but in no case should classified information be leaked to the media (online or otherwise) without going through proper channels and in compliance with security procedures.
    .
    Really?

    The Pentagon Papers, officially titled United States–Vietnam Relations, 1945–1967: A Study Prepared by the Department of Defense, was a top-secret United States Department of Defense history of the United States’ political-military involvement in Vietnam from 1945 to 1967.
    .
    Commissioned by United States Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara in 1967, the study was completed in 1968. The papers were first brought to the attention of the public on the front page of the New York Times in 1971.[1]
    .
    A 1996 article in the New York Times said that the Pentagon Papers “demonstrated, among other things, that the Johnson Administration had systematically lied, not only to the public but also to Congress, about a subject of transcendent national interest and significance”.
    [2]

    And you honestly believe democracy can appropriately be served by such a Soviet-style secrecy apparatus?

  • danielatlanta

    Yes, I do think that democracy can survive when the rules are followed. The leakers did not follow the rules, in the same way Scooter Libby did not follow the rules. Do you approve of Scooter Libby’s actions with respect to Valerie Plame? That’s exactly what you are advocating by approving the latest leaks. There are proper channels for seeing that the government is held accountable. They will work if people use them. Leaking to the press (whose ultimate motive is financial profit or aiding political manipulation, as was the case with in both the Pentagon Papers and latest leak incidents) is not the way to go. Having individuals without the authority to do so cavalierly declassify information by leaking to media is a very dangerous situation, and I would not want to be serving in a military where that has become approved by the public. I put my life on the line to protect our information security systems when I served in the military. The leakers should receive full penalty of the law, as should the media who assisted the leaking. This is akin to yelling “fire” in a crowded theater in its potential destruction.

  • stuartzechman

    I see.
    .
    Please tell me if I have this correct:
    .
    Releasing information to the public that demonstrates that high officials have systemically lied, not only to the public, but to Congress, is “not the way to go.”
    .
    The “very dangerous situation” is not that a vast, secret security state can operate largely at will with only nominal oversight, it’s that “the proper channels for seeing that the government is held accountable” are not observed, even if those channels can’t possibly function because of official secrecy and lies.
    .
    Also, because Scooter Libby leaked the name of a covert operative for retributive partisan, political gain, we should consider the case of the exposure of an entire war effort, in which 58,000 young Americans gave their lives, being predicated on a program of secret, systemic dishonesty to be identical in moral and security value.
    .
    If the rules say “Never allow the Congress nor the public access to information that might lead them to reverse our failed war policies, even if that’s an illegal or immoral order,” then rules are rules, democracy and American lives be damned.
    .
    Please tell me I have that wrong, you can’t possibly mean these things.

  • pintortwo

    There are proper channels for seeing that the government is held accountable. They will work if people use them.
    .
    I’m not sure that these channels currently work. If they did, WikiLeaks probably wouldn’t exist.
    .
    The Valerie Plame saga is completely different from WikiLeaks. In fact, it illustrates the value of leaks and whistle-blowing.
    .
    Ms. Plame’s identity was de-classified and leaked as punishment for Joe Wilson having exposed the Niger document as a fraud, and as intimidation for future whistle-blowers. The CIA doubted the allegations of uranium sales to Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. They didn’t want it in Powell’s speach to the UN and reported their concerns to the Pentagon and the Admin– they were dismissed (the document was later shown to be a forgery). In this case, Joe Wilson used “proper channels” (his superiors at the CIA) and it didn’t work.
    .
    Had a WikLeaks been available to expose the document as a fake and to show to the public that the CIA believed Iraq did not purchase uranium (and doubted a connection between al Qaeda and Iraq), perhaps things would have been different.
    .
    Any leak which exposes soldiers’ location or otherwise threatens their safety is unacceptable. To my knowledge, this is not the case with WikiLeaks.
    .
    I expect that soldiers, literally asked to put their lives on the line, want to know the exact reasons, plan and goals for their engagement. Recent history shows that soldiers, and all of us, are deceived and manipulated by the institutions in power. Whistle-blowers may be our best defense.

  • swissArmyBrainBETA

    “akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater”
    .
    the above is completely legal and justified when one ACTUALLY SPOTS A FIRE!
    .
    also, aren’t conservatives supposed to have some sort of distrust of government motivating their positions? you just don’t seem to have any at all.
    .
    “We elect officials to decide what should and should not be made public (and if we don’t like the way they are doing their job, we can vote against them”
    .
    How is the voting public supposed to know if officials are doing their job if cover ups are successful? that’s where democracy breaks down w/o relentless investigation by journalists or whistle-blowers.

  • swissArmyBrainBETA

    “akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater”
    .
    the above is completely legal and justified when one ACTUALLY SPOTS A FIRE!
    .
    also, aren’t conservatives supposed to have some sort of distrust of government motivating their positions? you just don’t seem to have any at all.
    .
    “We elect officials to decide what should and should not be made public (and if we don’t like the way they are doing their job, we can vote against them”
    .
    How is the voting public supposed to know if officials are doing their job if cover ups are successful? that’s where democracy breaks down w/o relentless investigation by journalists or whistle-blowers.

  • swissArmyBrainBETA

    that was supposed to be on comment #10, sorry

  • stuartzechman

    To my knowledge, danielatlanta is not a conservative, actually.

  • earljr1

    Daniel, I, too, served in both Iraq and Afghanistan and I can promise you, anyone who has experienced combat would feel just as you do. I would also add anyone who has loved ones defending our country under the most difficult conditions imaginable, would be appalled at the very prospect of having information leaked that could endanger our soldiers and compromise our mission there. I am totally shocked that anyone could think otherwise. To think such an undertaking would be done to gain political points, is almost beyond comprehension. Do these people have no conscience?

  • danielatlanta

    How would you feel if Wikileaks.com put all of your personal information online, including your credit card numbers and pin codes, your medical history, and so on, because they thought it should be part of the public record for some reason? I would bet that you would be enraged, because they have no authority or right to do so. Yet, that act would not be as grievous as what Wikileaks did. Individuals, no matter how noble they consider their motive (Scooter thought he was serving the nation in the Plame case!), do not have the right to declassify information on their own. That is a very dangerous act that can seriously compromise our national security, and it is a heinous act of betrayal against all of us who have served and are serving in the nation’s defense.

  • stuartzechman

    I would also add anyone who has loved ones defending our country under the most difficult conditions imaginable, would be appalled at the very prospect of having information leaked that could endanger our soldiers and compromise our mission there.
    .
    …which is precisely the reason why that prospect is invoked incessantly in order to justify the covering up of bureaucratic failures and the brutal reality of what actually goes on over there.

  • danielatlanta

    “…which is precisely the reason why that prospect is invoked incessantly in order to justify the covering up of bureaucratic failures and the brutal reality of what actually goes on over there.”

    stuartzechman, the point is not brutality in war (all wars are brutal on all sides), but instead it is about who has the authority to declassify information. I’m sure that no person at Wikileaks.com is qualified to do so, and, even if someone were qualified, I know they don’t have all of the information with which to make that decision responsibly. I doubt if the folks at Wikileaks.com even read all of the information posted to their website. How irresponsible if so! And, if Pfc. Bradley Manning is the one who leaked the information, he certainly isn’t qualified to make such life and death decisions. Hopefully, he will soon be reminded that deliberately compromising classified military information is a capital offense during wartime, and for very good reason.

  • pintortwo

    Thank you danielatlanta for your expressing your opinions. I believe I understand your concerns, and you’re probably right. It is certainly a dangerous road to go down and I can see why you feel betrayed. Personally, I am glad that this information is coming out, I feel it is necessary for all of us to know it. I suppose that an unsavory method is better than ignorance. Unfortunately, I see no other legitimate option currently.

  • pintortwo

    Daniel and Earl. My understanding is that WikiLeaks has been careful to not release anything that would endanger the troops. If I felt otherwise, I could not endorse what they are doing.
    .
    WikiLeaks aside, I never understood why soldiers are not leading the revolt against the Pentagon. I think I can say without hesitation that soldiers were asked to fight under false pretenses- not only in the invasion of Iraq, but once we decided to put-boots-on-the-ground in Afghanistan (of course we needed to eradicate al Qaeda camps, but we never needed to build a network of bases). I often link to Cmdr Jeff Huber and I would expect the majority of soldiers to share his outrage. As one who studied neoconservativism at the US Naval War College and commanded soldiers in battle, he feels that all of us, including you soldiers, have been lied to by the Pentagon. Why is your contempt focused on WikiLeaks, a group that seeks to fix the problem, rather than the group that had your peers lay down their lives for a hidden mission- one supported by deception?

  • stuartzechman

    I have to understand this position of yours.
    .
    You started this off by claiming that the government had the moral authority to condemn Daniel Ellsberg for leaking information to the public that “demonstrated, among other things, that the Johnson Administration had systematically lied, not only to the public but also to Congress, about a subject of transcendent national interest and significance” and then conclude with advocacy of the death penalty for those who have recently continued in Ellsberg’s footsteps.
    .
    It seems as if you refuse to consider the notion that bureaucracies –military or otherwise– that obviously, as these leaks conclusively prove, cannot be trusted to classify information solely according to security value. An adjective for bureaucracies who reflexively hide their activities from public judgment behind walls of secrecy whether justified on those grounds or not would be “corrupt.”
    .
    You are aware or have been made aware during the course of this discussion that Ellsberg made public the fact that the state had been systemically been lying –that means conducted programs of deception– to the public and the Congress for years, and yet you would still invest in the government unquestionable authority to determine that which we should know and not know.
    .
    If programmatically lying to the American people and to our representatives in the oversight branch of government doesn’t at least temporarily revoke the state’s moral authority on secrecy, in your view, then what does?
    .
    What exactly will it take for you to consider that, when the government proclaims a piece of information consequential to the safety of our brave men and women in uniform, that they might have other, less noble reasons for withholding it from you?
    .
    What abuses are too great, what vacuum of accountability too strong, what proof of bad faith do you require to relinquish this great belief you’ve placed in the state?
    .
    What have they done lately to earn that trust?

  • earljr1

    The reason the U.S. military is so effective, pintortwo, is our trust in the chain of command. We are given orders and we follow those orders, to the best of our ability. We have complete trust in the logic and purpose of the missions assigned to us and we are trained to fulfill the expectations of our higher command. If individual soldiers start questioning their orders, then we reduce ourselves to mayhem and ineffectiveness….our goals simply would not be met. Sure, we grumble a lot, what soldier does not? But 95% of us felt our mission was worthwhile and certainly worth doing. We did what we had to do and for the most part, we did it quite effectively. Discipline is the glue that holds an Army together, remove that from the equation and your Army is no longer capable of being an effective fighting force.

  • pintortwo

    Thank you earljr1. I have no doubt that active-duty soldiers believe in their mission and their superiors. Also, I understand the need to respect the chain-of-command and its importance to the overall effectiveness of our military. Certainly, the fact that Huber is retired allows him the freedom to be critical. Perhaps I should have made the distinction. Of course, we on our computers have the luxury of being able to spout-off when motivated and not worry about the consequences.
    .
    I personally feel violated by the veil of secrecy. Worse, I feel that our soldiers have been disrespected- which is unconscionable. That, more than anything, motivates me to comment.

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