For-Profit Education Faces New Regulations

Does this mean that Glen Beck University might be in jeopardy?

Careful aper. Those witty one liners could give you headaches. You’re not as used as you young to be.

Dang it! Thunder stolen!

maybe Harvard after this administration is done

2third. I may not be as young but still used.

I wonder if they apply that standard to many of those bible colleges if they will pass or fail?

“…maybe Harvard after this administration is done.”
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Freeinpa, you’re just soar that your Alma Mater We Accept U may not be accredited anymore.

You go girl!

LoL

Yes, attack another private institution. This is the way to get things to change.
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How are the stats between private and public schools, Ms Diaz?
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Do you have any data on the performance of private schools versus public? How do they compare?
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Something tells me there is more to this story than is being reported. Perhaps to yet again take over another private entity? Who would be surprised?

“Apollo Group, the University of Phoenix umbrella, cautions that federal student and default data itself is unreliable and can’t be used in its current state to guide regulation. “The federal government’s Integrated Postsecondary Education Data System does a poor job of capturing the nation’s next-generation learners, who comprise the majority of the university’s student body,” Apollo Group spokesman Manny Rivera said.

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As a side note, the Apollo Group, a partner in the Apollo Alliance, some of the most corrupt people on the planet should be investigated. Perhaps when you take out the stats from this one University you will see the numbers improve.
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Oh did I mention that Obama is deeply connected to the Apollo Group? Yes he is.

“Oh did I mention that Obama is deeply connected to the Apollo Group?”
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You know you would far less irritating if you so into innuendos.
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As I had heard before, if appears that, according to it’s own website, Apollo is, basically, equally in bed with both parties.

“CLELAND, JOSEPH MAXWELL Senate Democrat DC – G $1,000 01/31/2000
GORMLEY, WILLIAM L Senate Republican NJ – P $2,000 12/10/1999
HOYER, STENY HAMILTON House of Reps Democrat MD 05 G $1,000 10/21/2000
JEFFORDS, JAMES M Senate Republican VT – P $5,000 03/23/2000
JEFFORDS, JAMES M Senate Republican VT – G $5,000 03/23/2000
KOLBE, JAMES T House of Reps Republican AZ 05 G $300 02/14/2000
KYL, JON L Senate Republican AZ – P $250 12/10/1999
KYL, JON L Senate Republican AZ – G $250 01/28/2000
MCKEON, HOWARD “BUCK” House of Reps Republican CA 25 G $2,500 10/21/2000
MILLER, GARY G House of Reps Republican CA 41 G $5,000 10/21/2000
MINK, PATSY TAKEMOTO House of Reps Democrat HI 02 G $500 02/07/2000
PASTOR, EDWARD L House of Reps Democrat AZ 02 G $500 10/21/2000
PASTOR, EDWARD L House of Reps Democrat AZ 02 P $2,500 12/01/1999
STUMP, BOB House of Reps Republican AZ 03 G $250 02/28/2000
WU, DAVID House of Reps Democrat OR 01 P $1,000 05/01/1999″
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http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/campaigns/edward_l_pastor.asp?cycle=00
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“Do you have any data on the performance of private schools versus public? How do they compare?”
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Obviously if they are anywhere near as unfavorable towards for profit rather than non-profit (usually originally religious founded, as even Harvard has a seminary) DOE not to do such studies.
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Oooops! No easy to find studies. Apollo, we’ve got a problem.

Imagine 200 thousand Ashkenazi Jews with IQs over 140 driving themselves at a furious pace, is it any wonder why they are successful in every field? Ashkenazi Jews comprise 20% of the one million Americans with an IQ over 140, they are sought after by elite corporations and employed in fields that require high analytic reasoning and the ability to solve complex problems at lightning speed. What makes the gifted Ashkenazi jew unique is that they are under tremendous pressure to become wealthy enough to feel insulated against a sea of anti-Jewish feelings. They are joyful for not being born a less intelligent Jew who has to live in fear and rarely come out after dark.

I am so glad you stayed on topic and made such a clear point.
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Have you taken your medication today or do you regularly like to bring up unfounded information claiming an ethnic superiority of of Ashkenazi Jews?
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BTW: I have two Ashkenazi Jewish inlaws and work in a primarily Jewish business, but have no reason believe that you are correct.

Ridiculous legislation that at first blush looks to be as complicated as our tax code. Now we will have big brother using social security administration data to validate the earnings of graduates and comparing it to tuition costs that for profit schools charge.

Who comes up with this public policy and are our congresspeople so blind that they fail to challenge both the means and ends of the legislation.

First, Eisman is a short seller who demonized the for profit industry on a national stage. The Obama administration should be investigated by the SEC for allowing someone who has a vested interest in for profit stocks plunging to testify in front of Congress during the rule-making process. This is blatant bias and it dumbfounds me that our Congress would even allow testimony from someone who stands to profit in the millions of dollars through such a process.

Second, of course for profit educators have higher default rates. They are not exclusive and allow anyone in who seeks to change and make better their life. So they will have more people who try and drop out. These are the students who no one else will give a chance too; these are the students who served our country and now have to raise their families while holding down a job and are looking for a more convenience way to go back to school while doing do; and these are the students who are single-moms again trying to better themselves. That is and should the the goal of government — to give the people opportunity to achieve the American dream and to have “equal access to education” regardless of financial means. . . or at least that is what the Higher Education Act says.

Third, times change. Education needs to be rethought in today’s global and transient world. If you want a Harvard degree then that is great. .. but dont belittle someone who is trying to improve themself by getting a degree from the University of Phoenix. We have too many politicians who are stuck in their “old man with saggy balls” way. Think different. . .think fresh. . . you have to if you want to get us out of $1 trillion in debt. And frankly, I see an investment in providing people with the means to educate themselves a better investment (even if some of those federal loans default) as a better investment than welfare. Not to mention that Big Brother gets 40% of those monies back via taxes that for profit educators have to pay anyway.

Bottom line. . there is better ways to serve the spirit and intent of managing student debt loads. One — how about some personal responsibility. If a student takes out loans and drops out, then they should have the debt. If a student graduates and can’t get a job, then sure for profit educators and the government have to find a solution, but it is not the full burden of the for profit educators. . . this legislation almost forces them to become economists predicting the future employment conditions of America. . .something that not even Big Brother has proven they are even mildly good at doing given our 9.5% unemployment rate. Two — how about pure disclosure. Force the for-profits to explain to students before they sign on the dotted line what their graduates make and their average debt loads are for those students that graduate. But don’t skew the statistics for students who dont have the fortitude and commitment to follow through in their education,. . and drop out. Third — government controls the amount of financial aid available via the amounts of loan offerings made per student. So if you reduce the amount of loan funding available, it is likely that the market will correct and for profit educators will naturally reduce tuition because students wont be able to afford it. Basic economics.
Lastly, this legislation is not even-handed. It points to the “burden” that taxpayers take on when defaults occur. But no one has any transparency into the federal and state subsidies that are given to state schools. Where is the oversight of that. Those monies are going to pay for football fields and other non-academic investments.

It’s all about perspective and this administration has none. Since they have failed on the deficit, the way, and employment, they are now scrambling to change as many laws and give the appearance they are making positive change, but they dont know the far reaching effects that inequity provides. Throw the bums out!!

Patrick and APR,
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Patrick I’m going to break my rule and reply to you this time because you either choose to LIE or can’t keep your facts strait.
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“Fox takes a doctored and edited tape and broadcast it as news resulting in POTUS believing it as fact and terminating her. Results to Fox reporters: nothing.”
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FOX did not broadcast the tape until a day “after” she was fired. “The day after she was fired.”

After learning of the doctored tapes FOX apologized to her.
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No FOX Hard News Reporters had any involvement with this tape.
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The only involvement was by Opinion Commentators Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity.
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Glenn Beck’s only involvement was to stand up for her a say she should “not” have been fires.
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Hopefully this information will help you understand the facts better.
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Please don’t come back with a bunch of Excuses or BS. Be a man and accept that in this case you were wrong.
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Also regarding your comments about my daughter. When a person sinks so low as to make such comments, they do not deserve a response. It only shows a lack of chacter and maturity on the part of the individual making the commemnt.
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APR funny how you claim to be such a “Good Feminist” but say nothing about Patrick’s insulting comments he has made several times about my daughter a person he does not know.
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If you were really interested in fairness for women you would have said something. You can’t have it both ways.
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Id,
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I could not disagree with you more.
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These schools cost between 5% and 15% of what regular four year schools cost. So, one would think if it cost that little that even the dropouts should be able to pay and, furthermore, for those who graduate, the default rate should be a small fraction of what they are elsewhere.
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Stuck in the middle of these online school are outright diploma mills who send out a piece of paper saying that you have graduated in exchange for $3,000.
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One online school which was among others a friend kept on shoving at me via email was “The University of California Southern”. That’s right, moving two words from The University of Southern California.
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These schools are very often deceptive in nature and are there to create both a false sense for potential employers that the workers have the credentials having learned something and, for the more honest ones, a false sense of accomplishment.
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The University of Phoenix absolutely is a University and not a diploma mill, but, so eager to get as many people as they can to pay, they water down their classes to the point where they have faced numerous lawsuits.
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Add these together and you’ll have four potential outcomes:
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1) It is, actually, a diploma mill with no classes at all and the employee sneaks into a job without having taken one class online or offline, makes more money and does not get caught until after he/she repays the loan.
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2) It is recognized by all employers the “graduate” applies to as a diploma mill diploma and the “student” earns nothing and does not repay the student loan.
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3) The classes are authentic (like Phoenix) and the graduate gets hired and manages not to get fired despite having far less knowledge than almost all others with that specialty.
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4) The University of Phoenix is on the employer’s hit list again and again due to poor knowledge from it’s graduates too many times and the student can not repay the student loan.
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5) The employee, due to not knowing what his/her diploma says they should know, gets fired halfway into repaying the student loan and defaults.
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Just as the FDA and USDA can tell us if our food is poisonous before we take it home to eat but can not easily tell ourselves, the government needs to regulate universities to see if they are just scams to get our money or to not really provide what they promise and take some of both our time and money or if they are truly legitimate.
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Id, you work for a for profit college don’t you?

I heard it came “Fox”.
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In that case, then, if Fox were at CBS standards if Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity should, instead of loosing their jobs since they are merely commentators, should each get a six month suspension from Fox as their radio contracts should follow suit.
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As for you and your family, I have told you that I have been pursuing my education and a higher income all of my life so that I can support a wife and children and you started making swipes at that.
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You don’t take swipes at a man spending his life making sure that he can have the income to be a responsible husband and father and then get offended when I make a remark about the family that you have.
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You were just as low as I was and don’t pretend otherwise.

Patricksartor,

My point isnt to defend the for-profit institutions. My point is that our government is quickly approaching socialism. . .and giving nonconventional for-profit education a bad name without presenting a balanced perspective. It’s kind of like every legislative vote that has been passed under this Administration — purely one sided straight down bipartisan lines.

I resent that, not because I work for a for-profit educator (as you alleged), but because my education came from one.

I may not have graduated from Harvard or Yale, but I still have a vested interest in the reputation of the institution and industry that I received my education from. And I detest “Big Brother” demonizing it when they ironically are not even-handedly professing a balanced and factual presentation of the value these institutions can provide. Times change. In today’s world, you can win American Idol and instantly become a singing sensation. Yes it pisses off singers who put in years of hard work and followed the traditional path to get where they are today, but that is life. Deal with it. Same is true in education. The education I received at my for profit school may not be as rigorous as Harvard, but that doesn’t mean I am less of a person and that I can’t do the same job as a Harvard grad. I’ve met people who received their education at the local library who were capable and competent to succeed.

This is just one more notch in Obama’s belt. He feels that it is his duty to change everything, yet he does it half assed along with way. Health care, the war, education, jobs, taxes. . .what has he really accomplished. Nothing. Leadership unites people together. He has done the opposite and only weakened our nation while in office.

The government has no business sticking their noses in this kind of detailed regulation. If they want to do something about their concerns over the default rates that some of these institutions have, then they should pull back the federal financial aid they offer. That is what all private banks did. They stopped giving students loans. The govt should make policy around what they can control — they are making the decisions on financial aid. They should be dictating to private industry what they can and cannot do.

Instead the govt make all this money available for students, and then cry afoul that these students are defaulting on their loans back to them.

So then they go after the educational institutions saying that it is their fault students cant get jobs or dropped out. It politics as usual. They want to be able to tell the people that they are making available all this money so people can go to school and get an american education and then on the back end say that they are policing anything bad that could happen to students along the way.

Or if they want to punish for profit schools that do negligent things, then fine punish them through punitive laws, but dont tell them what they can and cannot charge and what programs they can and cannot offer when they dont do that for non-profits. Now its education, tomorrow it will be the banks, and then it will be utilities, and before we know it, the government will centrally control everything because of the arrogance of OBama. If you havent forgot, we have a trillion dollars in debt and our unemployment rate is 9.5%. We dont need a centrally planned govt telling private industry how to create jobs and make money. Let the free market work.

To your point on regulation, the government DOES regulate education just as it does with the FDA and USDA. It is called the Deparment of Education. The DoE delegates oversight to various regulatory and accrediting bodies to ensure that quality standards are met.. . which means the for-profit schools that you are calling “mills” meet the criteria of these accrediting bodies just as any food or drug does.

I am sure everyone can come up with a sob story about John’s brother’s cousin’s cousin who got screwed by one of these for profit institutions (regardless of truth or not). But for every one of those negative stories, there should be a counterbalancing positive story that reminds these legislators about the positive that these institutions can do. . .and perhaps one of those people that are called to do that reminding is me.

So throw these bums out. I cant wait for the November elections.

3x I don’t recall reading derogatory statements about your daughter. That is never appropriate in a discussion. I don’t always read every comment completely.

If this regulation is good for us regarding for-profits, why not apply it to all colleges and universities that are distributing federal loans? Why is it only a good thing with regard to a for-profit that their students should find jobs and repay their debt?

Poor quality higher education that costs too much isn’t just a problem emanating from the likes of U Phoenix or AIU — it extends over to East Podunk State U and Pray Daily Bible College too.

Did y’all know that the fed will give out/back up to $138,500 in student loans with no qualifying for that debt required? That’s the cumulative sub and unsub Stafford limit. Sound familiar? Maybe something akin to sub-prime mortgages but even worse, there’s no collateral at all. And which university is it making those loans? Right, they aren’t – the fed is making/backing those loans. Therein lies your problem folks.

“I am sure everyone can come up with a sob story about John’s brother’s cousin’s cousin who got screwed by one of these for profit institutions (regardless of truth or not).”
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For the past dozen or so years news article after news article has been bringing up these very successful lawsuits by people who are in your shoes, not mine (it was, actually, the night school program called Harvard Extension on the Harvard Campus with Harvard professors where financial aid is not easy to get which is my story).
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First, the DOE deals almost exclusively with K through 12 public schools.
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Second, for actual diploma mills, that is the FBI and postal police’s jurisdiction.
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As of days ago,as far as DOE is concerned (and I am not going to say that this is your online school) you could go over 3rd grade coursework for four years and call that good enough for a four year degree.
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Maybe you found a good school. Maybe your are self taught. Maybe your employer requires a college degree as a matter of policy but does not need you to know all of the things an undergraduate needs to know. In Boston a data entry job I got hired for in 2000 used to require a four year degree back in 1999 even though it was something a person with a fourth grade education could do.
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I do not know your situation, but, was correct that you do have a horse in this race and have some concern about the end results.
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Lawsuit after lawsuit against online for profit schools have been won by former student. When things like this happen with other things, the federal government steps up and tries to find out if there is something systematically wrong or not.
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If DOE’s research finds out that these people are, like you, getting hired left and right right after graduation but, randomly, has a disproportionate number of highly irresponsible people who refuse to pay back loans, then you have nothing to worry about.
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If your school is an exception to this, then you still have nothing to worry about.
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You’ll notice a conservative above referred to how much money these for profit schools sent to Democrats and I cited that they sent just about the same amount to Republicans.
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Why?
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They are concerned about regulation. Some of them – maybe not yours, I do not know you, your school, your skills or your job – because they may not be teaching what people really need to know in order to work.
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Google for profit schools and it isn’t pretty.
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Once again, maybe your college and/or your major may be a total exception and, after checking out what really goes on, your college and/or major at that college may not only exonerate your diploma from suspicion, but, by doing so, add even more credibility to a diploma I know from what I read, many employers treat with extreme suspicion.

“Podunk”
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LOL
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When I was young, about ten years before online schools came out my father used to push me to get better grades so that I wouldn’t go off to Podunk University.
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I haven’t seen or heard that word in twenty years.
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I agree with you completely about checking out offline schools and schools which are non-profit on the list as well.
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The difference in quality from one college degree to another is astronomical yet price and quality are unrelated.

I agree with coach. The govt needs to look at themselves in the mirror. They cant have it both ways. They can’t say that they are willing to give “equal access to education to everyone”, but then have no controls or limits to what students can take out in loans.

That is the irony. Govt lambastes the mortgage companies for the subprime lending they did. And now they are the ones making the loans that could be going belly up. So instead of looking at themselves in the mirror they are looking to scapegoat for political reasons. Regulate yourself and the trillion dollars of deficit before you start regulating private industry.

Throw the bums out.

How does anyone presume to call a business with taxpayer, guaranteed loans, “private industry”?

Lockheed Martin, Northrup Grumman, Raytheon. . .these are all examples of firms 40 times larger in terms of revenue than any of the largest for-profit educational institutions. They all reap more than 80% of their revenues from the government. . .just like most for-profit education institutions.

How can anyone presume to call these firms private industry?

The only role government is supposed to play is in the protection of its citizen’s rights, but in modern day, governments are inexplicably tied to defending and educating its people due to their importance and public interest.

To that I guess you could add universal health care too [insert sarcasm]). I cant wait for the govenment to start imposing regulations on the hospitals telling them how to do their jobs.

Throw the bums out!!

Imagine 200 thousand Ashkenazi Jews with IQs over 140 driving themselves at a furious pace, is it any wonder why they are successful in every field? Ashkenazi Jews comprise 20% of the one million Americans with an IQ over 140, they are sought after by elite corporations and employed in fields that require high analytic reasoning and the ability to solve complex problems at lightning speed. What makes the gifted Ashkenazi jew unique is that they are under tremendous pressure to become wealthy enough to feel insulated against a sea of anti-Jewish feelings. They are joyful for not being born a less intelligent Jew who has to live in fear and rarely come out after dark.

___________________________________________

Lol, Ashkenazi Jews!!! Thats not why they rise to the top. They rise to the top because they are insular and work as a group that feeds on hyper-individualistic societies. Is that not why they have been expelled from 88 countries in their history? Oh, and others felt they were the “chosen” people as well!!! Just not to their liking!!!

How does anyone presume to call a business with taxpayer, guaranteed loans, “private industry”?

Teshimide
http://japonesparatodos.blogspot.com

If the Dept. of Education would stop charging our students 7.9% plus a 4% start up fee, there would be much fewer defaults. Why should we pay 3.5%-4.5% for a mortgage, and 0% for care loans, and banks borrow from the federal Reserve at 0.25%, while our government RIPS OFF our students who have already paid $ 50,000 per year for college fees. (How about $ 10,000 per year in Canada)

On the primary and secondary levels, funding and salaries tied to performance, and national standards to get on par with global competitors, are long overdue. Research now in on charters exposes them as the non-solution they are. They do not produce any better result than public schools, only drain funds from them.
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Balkingpoints / www

Mike W,

Can you offer some links or references to support your contention that “research now in on charters exposes them as the non-solution they are [in that] they do not produce any better result than public schools, only drain funds from them.” I would be further interested to learn about this if in fact it is true.

The bottom line in the debate of for-profit schools/charter schools versus traditional public schools, is that for-profit/charter schools are filling a niche demand in the market for a service that people want as indicated by the strong growth seen in this industry space over the last 10 years which in large part has been prompted by globalization that has shifted manufacturing jobs to the Far East leaving US workers needing additional service-based training.

What better a “result” does one need to evidence this niche success that consumer purchasing behavior. After all, there doesnt seem to be much of that in today’s economy — consumer purchasing behavior that is. If the for-profit schools were not doing their job, then students in droves would abandon them and revert back to the ancient public school system. Effectively, the market would correct itself rather than being artificially tampered with by the government.

Furthermore, your last comment is reversed no doubt. Private charter and for profit schools do not drain monies from government. It are public schools (not private ones) that receive direct funding from the state and federal government to inlay into their operating plans. Not only do these funds support their academic operating budgets, but also athletic, social and other non-academic activities. This amongst other reasons including taxation, substantiates why for-profit tuition levels are higher than public schools. Through funding these private institutions, it are the tax payers that are paying to subsidize public community colleges and the like. So Mike, which is the bigger “evil” (if there must be one) — paying for:
(1) an inept public school system (with declining enrollments) that can invest it in anything they so choose (be it academic in nature or not )with taxpayer money; or
(2) a “just as inept” for profit school that is growing (due to consumer happiness and behavior ) and paying the government back 40% of any profits?

I choose #2.

For-profit schools receive the benefit of federal loans from students who are eligible to receive them based on federal financial aid rules. They are a loan. The taxpayers do not fund them up front. Of course, if the student defaults, then the taxpayer indirectly pays the default on that.

The bottom line in this gainful employment debate is that at some point in time, the government has to hold individuals accountable rather than looking for others to blame. If students are not paying back their financial aid loans, then (1) change the financial aid policy; (2) reduce aid; (3) drastically reduce interest rates on student loans — these are all things that the government controls. Dont publish a 190 page report that makes a pathetic attempt at legislating something that free market economics already addresses.

Here’s a novel idea for the bureaucrats — dont allow students to take out more loans than their education is worth. That statement above is probably worth more in loan savings than the 190 pages of gibberish that the government wrote up on the proposed gainful employment debate. But dont take my word for it. . .see what Terry W. Hartle, senior vice president of government and public affairs at the American Council on Education, said — [the proposed gainful employment rules] represent “the most complicated regulatory package that the Department of Education has ever promulgated — this really is a brave new world.”

Throw the bums out!!!!