The Tea Party’s Structual Dilemma

I have little interest in the shopworn debate about whether or to what extent the Tea Party movement is racist. The impetus for this story–which was written several days ago, before the Shirley Sherrod saga stole its thunder–was an odious blog post written by Mark Williams, and the critical response it prompted from a cohort of Tea Party activists who formed a sub-group essentially dedicated to running damage control on jeremiads like these. But the point of the story is that the movement’s disaggregated structure, which feeds the somewhat romanticized view that it is an entirely grassroots phenomenon, has the potential to handicap its goals. As I write:

Williams’ invective, which came just days after the North Iowa Tea Party erected a billboard likening Obama to Hitler and Stalin, underscores a real organizational dilemma. The movement is bent on retaining the decentralized structure that fostered its growth, but its lack of formal leadership — and its confounding array of overlapping groups — means that when rogue members spout off, they can seem to be speaking for the movement as a whole.

The group that spoke out against Williams, the National Tea Party Federation, has a moniker that belies the bare-bones reality. (The dizzying array of sects within the movement — Tea Party Nation, Tea Party Patriots, Tea Party Express, etc etc — is one reason many people still don’t realize there is no single, monolithic Tea Party.) I’d argue that the movement would be well-served by resisting its ideological preference for local autonomy and becoming more centralized–if only to have formal leadership in place to respond to events like this one. That’s partly what the Federation wanted to do, and as Politico notes, their efforts generated no shortage of scorn. It’s a flashpoint, perhaps, of the movement’s internal struggle between pragmatism and purity.

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  • Alex Vallas

    The Tea Party reminds me of Afghanistan. A bunch of tribes with no central authority or organization. Their main mission appears to be destruction, polarization, hatred and bigotry fed by stupidity.

  • 3xfire3

    I thought many Swampers would enjoy this Video. It does a good job of showing the beliefs of many in the Tea Party Movement. Patriotic Liberals will probably agree with this video.

  • 3xfire3

    Alex,
    .
    Spoken like a true Liberal no nothing. Partisan Ideology through and through. No wonder Liberals only make up 20% of our citizens and getting smaller by the day. Americans don’t buy your hate and crap.

  • http://flounder73.wordpress.com pafro

    They kinda remind me of the KKK. You know, the brothers in Mississippi might prefer one sort of wood for their cross burnings, and maybe have a 13 knot noose, while the bubbas in South Carolina might prefer another wood for their crosses and make an 11 knot noose.
    All differences aside, both are predicated on white power.

  • sacredh

    The Tea Party does have a centralized structural leadership. Us old folks call it the republican party. It’s like the blue dogs in the democratic party. They label themselves as something else because it suits their agenda and appeals to their constituents, but they’re still democrats. The Tea Party is the same. They call themselves independents and claim they’re something entirely different. They’re not. They’ll vote republican in the elections because they’ll claim that the republicans are a closer fit to their ideology. A whore might call herself a social worker, but she’s still a whore.

  • m0mentom0ri

    Propping up your nativist propaganda with patriotic symbols does not make it patriotic.
    .
    As some who loves their country and the principals it was founded on, I reject your message of nihilism, selfishness and exclusion.
    .
    President Hoover said, “We in America today are nearer to the final triumph over poverty than ever before in the history of any land.” If President Obama said this today, you’d accuse him of wanting to redistribute the wealth of hard-working Americans and call him a socialist.
    .
    Sell your snake oil elsewhere, I’m not buying it.

  • m0mentom0ri

    Proving sacredh right:
    .
    * 86 percent of Tea Party supporters and activists identify with or lean to the Republican Party.
    * 79 percent identify as conservatives.
    * They are among the most pro-big business segments of the electorate: 54 percent rate it warmly and 20 percent coolly.
    * 85 percent of the supporters are white.
    * Only 5 percent report having voted for Obama in 2008.

  • m0mentom0ri

    “Tea Party supporters are only 21 percent of the larger electorate.”
    .
    http://www.democracycorps.com/strategy/2010/07/special-report-on-the-tea-party-movement/?section=Analysis

  • 3xfire3

    m0mentom0ri
    .
    As a Left Wing Idealogy, I didn’t expect you to buy truth.

  • grape_crush

    The impetus for this story–which was written several days ago, before the Shirley Sherrod saga stole its thunder…
    .
    Y’all know that the two are related, right?

  • m0mentom0ri

    “As a Left Wing Idealogy, I didn’t expect you to buy truth”
    .
    What if I superimpose it over pictures of eagles and flags?

  • earljr1

    Excellent video, 3x and truly representative of how many Americans feel. Our liberal friends will start hurling insults, but only because they feel threatened by this growing disenchantment with the Obama administration. This only strengthens our cause….the more rancorous they become, the more motivated we are to vote these daydreamers OUT of office!

  • textee

    Alex Altman: “I have little interest in the shopworn debate about whether or to what extent the Tea Party movement is racist.”

    I have little interest in the shopworn debate on whether or to what extent Time magazine writers are serial child molesters with a preference for those children who are five years-old and younger. However, ….

    BTW, when can we get those at Time magazine who were members of JournoList to publish all that they wrote at JournoList? Do we have to rely on the Daily Caller to publish what Time magazine writers wrote there?

  • 3xfire3

    moment,
    .
    Sounds like an excellent group of very Patriotic Americans to me. Only a Left Wing Ideology such as you and the rest of the Liberals on this site would have a problem with the make up of this group. You are a minority of our citizens. Why don’t you move to Western Europe where you would feel more at home.

  • nflfoghorn

    “Americans don’t buy your hate and crap”
    .
    You seemingly make enough for every man, woman and child to share….

  • m0mentom0ri

    “You are a minority of our citizens. ”
    .
    Says one of the 21%ers. See 1.2 above.
    .
    “Why don’t you move to Western Europe where you would feel more at home.”
    .
    Because I love my country and would never consider another.
    .
    Nor will I suggest that you move somewhere with no entitlements or burdensome regulations – like Somalia or Mexico.

  • nflfoghorn

    Why do you call people who do their jobs well child molesters?

  • m0mentom0ri

    Careful Alex, its only a matter of time before textee will go after you for your last name.
    .
    “Jon so-called “Stewart” Leibowitz’s…”
    .
    http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/06/12/the-sarah-and-dave-show-contd-the-outrage-a-thon-continues/#comment-23176
    .
    By their words, you shall know them

  • m0mentom0ri

    21% of them, anyway (see 1.2 above)

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    So, the Tea Party believe in:
    .
    1) The bald eagle.
    .
    2) The American Flag.
    .
    3) That there is a US Constitution.
    .
    4) American landscapes.
    .
    5) George W Bush
    .
    6) Abraham Lincoln is fun to quote out of context.
    .
    7) That 20% of the people should give orders to the president of the United States instead of the 53% who voted for him.
    .
    8) Following the will of at least 53% of the people is tyranny while following the will of the 20% minority is Democracy.
    .
    9) American exceptionalism: If you aren’t born in the USA, you are worthless.
    .
    10) “personal responsibility” in the conservative interpretation: blame the victim (ie, how dare you put your house in the way of hurricane Katrina!). This is, also known as economic elitism.
    .
    11) Government is the cause of all recessions, denying all modern economics.
    .
    12) The rewritting of history.
    .
    13) Lying pathologically.
    .
    14) Believing that everybody is so stupid that, if you play the Battle Hymn of the Republic in the background everybody will look at the pretty pictures and cool sounds and do everything you tell them to.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    That sound is called laughter at both the ideas they espouse, how they are one fifth of the population but in their delusions of grandeur believe that 21% is a majority and that Earljr1 expects us to believe that he is a doctor.

  • sacredh

    If we listed every senate, house and governorship race that was being run in the country and asked a Tea Party member who they will vote for in November, how many are going to say that being the independents that they are…they’re going to vote for the democratic candidate? They’re going to vote overwhelmingly republican. There are a minority of democrats that didn’t vote for Obama. There area minority of republicans that didn’t vote for McCain. There are probably some Tea Baggers that aren’t going to vote for the republicans, but the Tea baggers are going to cast the lion’s share of their votes for the republicans because that is who they are.
    .
    It’s nonsense to claim they’re independents. Independent republicans who represent the right wing, the extreme right wing or the fringe right wing I can believe. True independents that vote for the best candidate regardless of party? Please. Peddle that sh!t somewhere else to someone more gullible than I am.

  • shepherdwong

    That’s an interesting take, Alex. Beside the need for grownup message discipline, what do you think it might mean to have a movement essentially of the authoritarian right attempt to organize and move an agenda (“don’t tax me, bro”) without a strong leader or leadership?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Apparently, judging from his posts, Textee was molested as a child by somebody from ESPN dressed like Mickey Mouse while being read the communist manifesto.

  • sacredh

    OMG! The repressed memories are starting to come back. I seem to remember a baby sitter that was way too interested in bath time. I think I can can safely blame her for my heterosexuality and thinking that sex is the most fun you can have without actually laughing. I wonder if she’s on FaceBook?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    3X,
    .
    53% voted for Obama.
    .
    49% support Obama now.
    .
    21% support the Tea Party.
    .
    Here is second grade math for retarded children:
    .
    53 > 21
    .
    Why didn’t Obama listen to your 21%? Because the rest of the country was disagreeing with you.
    .
    At his all time low, he was at 43%.
    .
    43> 21.
    .
    You still were in the minority.
    .
    Obama is back up again now at 49%.
    .
    Your movement is a loud, far right minority.

  • sacredh

    This wasn’t directed to anyone in particular. I just like to think out loud. I also like Blue Bunny Peanutbutter Panic ice cream but that’s a little OT.

  • 11charlie

    “…The dizzying array of sects within the movement — Tea Party Nation, Tea Party Patriots, Tea Party Express,…”
    .
    Don’t forget the Popular Tea Party, and the People’s Popular Tea Party.

  • Alex Altman

    Shepherd: I think of it as coming from the libertarian right, not the authoritarian right. The basic thrust is less of everything: less regulation, less taxes, a smaller federal government, more local control, hands off our guns, etc. (I know there are exceptions.) For a movement that distrusts government itself, it makes perfect sense for them to be wary of consolidating power in one person or place.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Alex,
    .
    From what I have seen their play to nationalism including a specific reference to “American exceptionalism” as a good thing, not a terrible thing as well as their Nazi-like use of flags and Eagles does incorporate or at least cross pollinate the authoritarian with the libertarian.

  • sacredh

    Then there’s the Mad Hatters Tea Party, the Imaginery Friends Tea Party, the Tea and Toast Party, the Long Island Iced Tea Party, the Sleepy Time Tea party, the Earl Grey Tea Party and Texas Tea party (that one’s a little oily).

  • shepherdwong

    Alex: and yet they self identify as “conservative”, consistently vote Republican and marched in lockstep to every big government, Constitution-shredding policy enacted by Bush/Cheney. Regardless of what they think they think about government (“keep the government’s hands off my Medicare”) and their claims of independence, they also parrot every idea and narrative of their authoritarian leaders, now without official political leaders, pretty-much down to the axis-of-media-evil, Limbaugh-FOX-Palin. Perhaps you put too much stock in their rhetoric.

  • acameronw

    Dear 3X

    Thanks for the stirring video. I’m not really sure I got all of it, but I’m sure Leni Riefenstahl would.

  • newfreedomblog

    “I’d argue that the movement would be well-served by resisting its ideological preference for local autonomy and becoming more centralized–if only to have formal leadership in place to respond to events like this one.”

    .
    Would this be as opposed to a well oiled political machine where favors are repaid in massive government grants? Pork? Stimulus projects?
    .
    A more national group who can be bought and paid for by lobbyist and other special interest groups?
    .
    What is your belief that governments should be maintained primarily from the local level by the people? Where local control over especially those things which affect people’s daily lives should remain localized rather than controlled by some State or Federal government? Where issues which affect most people are those at the local level, and each locale is special and unique?
    .
    Perhaps your confusion as to why there is not a defined national leadership is because the TEA Party believes in more local activism as a rule. That true change can only happen from those of us who are active at the local level. Once we have acheived that level of influence, perhaps we can move on to more State and National venues. We can use the loosely organized national groups as you have mentioned their names to elicit support to protest those things like healthcare, which saw in less than two days well over a hundred thousand people respond and go to Washington to confront those in the House of Representatives. Or do you believe that a well oiled national machine like the Democrat Party can hire activists such as ACORN to board buses in a faux pas protest?
    .
    I am a little disappointed that you did not pick up and discuss the central core values of the TEA Party which are limited government, fiscal reponsibility and the return of more free market interactions between business and government. Perhaps next time.

  • apr2563

    I am reading a book titled “Republican Gomorrah” by Max Blumenthal. It is an excellent history of the rise of evangelical influence within the Republican party. It took a while for it to congeal but once they began to feed off each other, there was a certain synergy that happened. It was Faustian contract. Through scandal and illegal activities they endured. Then they went too far and people became wary. (Delay, Abramhoff, sex scandals, Mariannas, Schiavo, Reed, Dobson, etc.)
    Now the Repulican’s are uniting with the TPs. Selling it as grassroots while scamming the believers as they did with the evangelicals. This is Repulican history. Stir the fear, scam the yokels. They will go too far. It is inevitable.

  • shepherdwong

    If you’re really interested in the psycho-social science of it, you may enjoy this:
    .
    http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

  • newfreedomblog

    Oh poo, acameronw. You know the Nazis are more relevant to the new socialist-democratic party of America, yes? The one Van Jones most recently represented. Obama’s “Green Czar”.

  • earljr1

    fatpatrick, you obviously live a lonely, unfulfilled life and your ONLY recourse is to try and pull others down to your pathetic level of existence. I have just returned from a lovely, five day conference in Switzerland, my credentials are very much intact and I will be back in the O.R. at seven tomorrow. You, on the other hand, will be at your perch here in swampland, doing NOTHING of significance, hurling your insults because it is the ONLY way you can gain a feeling of superiority. What a wasted life and sadly, I see NO redeeming qualities. Just another day in fatpatricks miserable, singular world.

  • sacredh

    I’ve wondered what the evangelicals think about the Tea Party stealing their thunder and influence in the republican party. Are they upset because the party they hijacked has been hijacked by another faction?

  • apr2563

    sacredh: Maybe they are prayn’ their fears away.

  • afguy

    I think the missus brought some of that home with her from the store the other day.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “Stir the fear, scam the yokels. They will go too far. It is inevitable.”
    .
    I’ve been thinking the same thing.
    .
    The 2010 republican summer strategy of race baiting keeps getting turned up with each new scam.

  • scooterfox

    3x,

    This video doesn’t SAY anything. It shows a lot of stock images, and the lady reading the script quotes several presidents with some pretty words about abstract ideas, but it doesn’t say ANYTHING.

    It accuses the Obama admistration of all sorts of broad “crimes”, without actually saying what those really are. It seems to me that these accusations are not explained because they cannot be.

    I feel safer in this country today than any other time since W was president. I feel this country’s image in the eyes of the world has only gotten better since we have tried (maybe not altogether successfully, but they are making an effort, which is more than I can say for the previous administration) to utilize diplomacy with our minds and mouths and not with our weapons.

    I feel that my freedom is GREATER with things like the HCR bill, and it supports small business more than anyone will ever realize, and the Tea Party should really be behind it–it frees the common man from the bonds of drudgery, from years of being slaves to large corporations (for fear of losing the precious health care benefits) and gives them reason to pursue their independent ideas, to start their businesses, to follow their dreams and not just their most basic of needs… What greater freedom is that?

    Taxation is a neccessity in any society that attempts to live together and provide for itself. Big government is not, in itself, a problem. Inefficient government, however, is. That should be the Tea Party goal, not just a simple, 3rd grade, knee jerk “less is more” mantra.

    True patriots support their president, or so they said over and over and over and over, during the Bush administration. One cannot flip flop on that without losing credibility on everything else they claim is right… keep that in mind when trying to claim patriotism.

    The tunnel vision of the Tea Party is frightening, and the movement is based on the eternal hatred of taxation (nobody ENJOYS paying taxes) and feeds on creating an atmosphere of us vs them, be it by racism, inaccurate accusations of socialism, or whatnot.

    Nobody can deny there is racism present in the Tea Party. this is a fact. this is not to be “discussed” or “debated.” Its a fact. There is racism in the Democratic party, and the Republican party too.

    The real question is whether the Tea Party is motivated by it…

    When so called leaders of the movement use racist statements, in jest or in earnest, that’s when the whole group gets that label. And its a hard label to shake.

  • scooterfox

    to paraphrase the onion:

    “Most tea parties are still held by little girls.”

  • earljr1

    Keep dreaming fatpatrick, keep dreaming. 60% of Americans feel this country is headed in the WRONG direction and guess who is at the helm? Oops, I forgot about your very limited mentality, this just might be too complicated for you.

  • Alex Altman

    @Shepherd: I guess what trips me up is that definition of authoritarian. I think of the unwillingness to challenge talking points as credulousness, and Tea Party heroes derive their power by positioning themselves as the heroic opposition–they’re anti-authorities in that sense. Thanks for the link

  • kbanginmotown

    Alex: Pictures help to explain the Structure of the Tea Party. Especially those of MC Escher…
    .
    http://tinyurl.com/2e336e8

  • formerlyjames

    Why would they not join the Libertarian Party, which does have some cohesion and a stated platform as opposed to nebulous, ill defined complaints? Because they don’t want to leave the Republican Party, of which they are a faction.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Keep dreaming fatpatrick”
    .
    Name the gym and I’ll box you anytime. I bet you’re a true weakling judging from how you feel this uncontrollable compulsion to make yourself sound great.
    .
    “…60% of Americans feel this country is headed in the WRONG direction..”
    .
    Yet 49% support Obama.
    .
    So, that means that leaves at least 9% of the public who both support Obama but do not like the way things are going.
    .
    Guess who those 9% are?
    .
    Those are people more liberal than Obama.
    .
    You are so twisted to the right that you have no idea what is up or down, but, Obama is a center by center left. He is somewhat more than dead center, middle of the road, split the baby Bill Clinton, but he’s no JFK or RFK liberal.
    .
    Now, Earl, be a nice boy and help your mother with the laundry upstairs and stop using her computer to play fake doctor.

  • Joe Bftsplk

    …people still don’t realize there is no single, monolithic Tea Party.) I’d argue that the movement would be well-served by resisting its ideological preference for local autonomy and becoming more centralized–if only to have formal leadership in place to respond to events like this one.

    Uh, wouldn’t that be the Republican Party?

  • m0mentom0ri

    “…the TEA Party believes…”
    .
    Do they believe Obama might be the anti-Christ, like you’ve suggested, Rusty?

  • earljr1

    april, you and your fellow liberal daydreamers better be “prayn’” that this is all just a bad dream. I can assure you the evangelicals are in full sympathy with the tea party movement. You take false security in your 21% numbers, because when you add the evangelicals, the numbers are much, much higher. Enough to turn this election and believe me, Obama knows it!

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Czar” is Russian for king.
    .
    There is nothing fascist about it.
    .
    Reagan had a “drug Czar”.
    .
    If you want to see flags waving, patriots in uniform and anti-establishment, here you go:
    .

    .
    They were great advocates of German exceptionalism.
    .
    They called their opponents “anti-patriotic” and “anti-German”.
    .
    But you wouldn’t call somebody “anti-American” just for disagreeing with you, would you?

  • earljr1

    Oh my, fatpatrick wants to box me now. An obese, myopic, balding fat guy in a boxing ring? Your delusions of grandeur are escalating out of control. Did you do ANY work today fatpatrick, or has this been yet another wasted day in your miserable existence? Did you get your handout today?

  • sacredh

    “You take false security in your 21% numbers, because when you add the evangelicals, the numbers are much, much higher.”
    .
    I think that assumes that the evangelicals aren’t Tea Party members to begin with. The evangelicals threw their support to the republicans many years ago. The Tea Party is made up mostly of republicans that….surprise…vote republican faithfully anyway. They’re not really new converts to the conservative agenda. They may be more enthusiastic about voting in Novemeber, but an enthusiastic vote still only counts as much as an unethusiastic one.

  • sacredh

    afguy, it’s good to see you around here again. If you like the Peanutbutter Panic, try the Banana Split ice cream too. I’ve been pigging out on the stuff trying to gain weight. I’m up to 190.

  • shepherdwong

    “@Shepherd: I guess what trips me up is that definition of authoritarian…Thanks for the link.”
    .
    You’re most welcome, Alex. A lot of people get tripped-up by that definition. If you look at Altemeyer’s work, you’ll see it’s a much broader phenomenon than most people realize. There are even “left-wing authoritarian followers”, though in much smaller numbers than right-wing authoritarian followers.

  • hippooath

    What a load of hoot.
    .
    String together a bunch of patriotic meaningless, valueless and heart swelling words and people lose complete perspective. I’ve asked many on the right what they exactly have lost and I have yet to get one single answer. Only the same swill as above. A lot of patro-babble, no substance and no facts.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Your delusions of grandeur are escalating out of control. Did you do ANY work today fatpatrick, or has this been yet another wasted day in your miserable existence? Did you get your handout today?”
    .
    No, but I got a new lead today regarding a sublease I am working on for a client.
    .
    If I am so deluded, then name the gym, punk.
    .
    Otherwise, I am going to continue to presume that you work cleaning floors part time at a hospital and live in your mother’s basement.
    .
    You know 0 about medicine, economics, history, math, biology, international relations, law or the constitution, but are still out there touting yourself as a genius.
    .
    I see very low self esteem and very low sense of self worth. Since you feel bullied by others who are far, far better educated and far better earning than you are, you create an online persona of a doctor.
    .
    Earl, I think your mommy is calling you.

  • newfreedomblog

    And people like blossum38 wonder why there is so much animosity on this site between the two factions. Imagine that.
    .
    But thank you for taking your time to regurgitate your crap yet again, momentoad. It makes me laugh each and everytime.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Sorry, Earl,
    .
    Clergy members back Barack.
    .
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7505.html
    .
    He beat out all of your Republicans.
    .
    Just because we do have a couple of atheists here and there, as do much of the libertarian parts of the Republican party does not mean that you have anybody but the most extreme and confused religious people in the Republic Party.
    .
    So, I may not be into praying myself, but, I can’t wait for the clergy to get involved for this year’s election.

  • apr2563

    Paul: Remember the 92 Republican convention when Pat Buchanan and other mouth breathers scared the sh!t out of the American people. To paraphrase Ann Richards, “they can’t help it….”.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    LOL
    .
    You see, there are people I believe here.
    .
    Apr is, among other things, a former school teacher.
    .
    Pafro is a geologist.
    .
    53_3 and Stuart Zechman both do work on computers (I do not know all of the specifics, but, they are middle income or higher and successful people).
    .
    My cousin just finished his residency for pediatric gastroenterology and he is not going to Switzerland. He is going to Chicago (from Michigan).
    .
    Why would an emergency thoracic surgeon go to Switzerland? Did you go there to learn what Pectus Excavatum was so you can prove to me that you know at least half of what an Army medic knows about medicine?
    .
    I know emergency Orthopedic surgeons go to Ireland, but, why would you be in Switzerland?
    .
    You know, hotels in Switzerland do have wireless service and there are adapters for the European electrical system to plug in your laptop. You have not explained your absence online.
    .
    You are just so full of crap it is insane.
    .
    You will notice that, despite being around many middle income and several very successful people here in the Swamp the only ones I question are you and 3X.
    .
    It was not until 3X started talking about an award he claimed to have won which went to somebody else did I realize that he was full of crap about his so-called CEO background.
    .
    For you, your language, your vocabulary, your grammar and, far more than that, your mentality are so radically dissimilar to that of most doctors that I had to wonder more and more as time went on.
    .
    Now it is clear to me that you are not a doctor.
    .
    You will have to email me at work with your email address from your hospital for me to believe that you are a doctor.
    .
    Until then, I will believe you are very unhappy man wishing to put down others as much as possible.

  • 3xfire3

    sacredh,
    .
    The last poll I saw showed the Tea Party approx 70% Republicans, 20% Independents and about 10% Democrats [ probably blue dogs ].
    .
    Yes most Tea Party members will vote Republican as well most Independents. Most people are not happy with Obama’s ideas of change and want to change to a more moderate form of government.
    .
    You have a tendence to be a little more rational then most of your peers on this site and perhaps can at least understand my opinion. Your peers on the other hand will just throw out a bunch of garbage to try and prove me wrong. As Americans we are all entitled to our views and opinions as long as they have some level of sanity.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “About 14 percent of the electorate in 2000 identified itself as part of the “Christian Right,” with 79 percent of this sector voting for George W. Bush.[2] But contrary to the impression fostered by the direct-mail rhetoric of many liberal groups, not all Evangelicals are part of the Christian Right, and some Evangelicals are actually politically liberal or progressive. Black Evangelicals, for example, overwhelmingly vote Democratic, but they are conservative on some social issues: tending to favor a social safety net for the poor and unemployed, but believing homosexuals are sinful.”
    .
    Earl, let’s do some more math.
    .
    Making the unlikely presumption that evangelicals are no more likely to be in the Tea Party than anybody else then 21% of that 14% are already in the Tea Party.
    .
    89% of that 14% is 12.46%.
    .
    21% + 12.46% = 33.46%.
    .
    To win an election, you must exceed 50% or a very large plurality nearing 50% in a three way race.
    .
    Even if there were many non-Tea Party religious right people dying to run out and vote, guess what?
    .
    You and your far, far, right wing ideology still loose.

  • scooterfox

    new:

    You almost made me spit out my afternoon tea!

    “Regurgitate your crap?”

    Pot? I think the phone is ringing… Oh yes, “hello? Kettle? Yes, he’s here… ”

    -its for you, newfreedom…

  • 3xfire3

    apr,
    .
    I hear Propaganda books can be fascinating.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “I hear Propaganda books can be fascinating.”
    .
    Why bother with propaganda books when you have 24 hour a day propaganda TV an ads with hollow phrases, quotes of admired leaders taken out of context, pretty pictures of bald eagles and flags with absolutely no content.
    .
    Propaganda is so much easier to take that way. You do not even have to pretend to think!

  • sacredh

    3xfire3, I live in a conservative area and work with mostly ex-military. We’re split pretty much down the middle politically at work. There are now 5 guys at work (out of 16) that either consider themselves Tea Party members of at least look on them favourably. All five voted republican in 2008 (and 2000 & 2004). We had 2 reliably republican guys that didn’t vote in 2008 for president because they didn’t like Palin. I can understand your opinion because I see it first hand at work. However, I don’t see the Tea Party having much influence except in who winds up as the republican nominees.
    .
    We also had a reliably democratic vote that didn’t vote for Obama because he doesn’t like minorities. That isn’t a guess. He said it himself. I believe you and I discussed before that we both want basically the same thing for our country but disagree on which party can deliver and our reasonings for it.
    .
    I think it might be a little early to count the independents in the R column. It’s over 3 months until we vote and alot can change in that long of a time. I also have a hard time believing that moderates are going to be attracted to the republicans this year.

  • earljr1

    Oh fatpatrick, you are such a sad, sad joke. The very fact you find it necessary to demean and insult, shows how miserable your existence must be. Your “lead” will quickly find out what a lazy tub of lard he inherited and find himself a competent broker. Your fat butt cannot be pried away from swampland long enough to do any real work. Fat boy in a boxing ring, lord, the very picture makes me laugh out loud!

  • 3xfire3

    Patrick,
    .
    You are so confused, irrational, illogical, ignorant, and probably a little insane that I feel sorry for you.
    .
    Since it’s impossible to have a rational, sane conversation with you, I encourage you to stop replying to my posts and go bother someone else.
    .
    I will no longer read or reply to any of your posts. You are a totally waste of time.

  • earljr1

    fatpatrick is in liberal lala land and fantasizes that independents and people with a strong religious foundation plan on voting for Obama. That train has left the station, but you are simply too ignorant to acknowledge this fact. (no surprise) Conservatives WILL prevail, and the liberal ideology will be rejected, forthwith. By the way, fatpatrick, you spell lose, this way…not loose. I have watched you make this mistake numerous times and find it distracting. Do a better job, okay?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “The very fact you find it necessary to demean and insult, shows how miserable your existence must be.”
    .
    So, following that to it’s logical conclusion since you demean everybody, that you must have a life worse than anybody here can imagine.
    .
    “Your “lead” will quickly find out what a lazy tub of lard he inherited and find himself a competent broker.”
    .
    No, my lead was a broker. I have an exclusive with a sub landlord – and the broker will show it to his client. Your knowledge of commercial real estate, who real doctors use all of the time, is frighteningly bad reminding me that you never discussed leasing an office with a real doctor much less being a real doctor.
    .
    “Your fat butt cannot be pried away from swampland long enough to do any real work.”
    .
    You, clearly, do not understand the term “work from home”.
    .
    I take incoming and make outgoing calls, replenish my database and, during dead moments come online without going anywhere. I might spend a four minute break online and go back to work for a few hours.
    .
    You, clearly, are a very deranged man, Earl.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Wait, survey after survey after survey shows Obama recovering more and more from his all time low with many groups of people and statistics about the self described “religious right” shows them as a small group already attributed to the Republicans and you believe all of these things are false for no known reason, but, you have some reason to say that Republicans win.
    .
    Did God tell you this?
    .
    Was it that voice you keep hearing telling you that he is God and that he will give you victory against liberals, intellectuals and people who have picked on you all of your life?
    .
    Earl, you are just a waste of time.

  • 53_3

    Looks like you’ve crossed off the last person on your list there, 3xfire3.
    .
    Do us all a favor, and keep it that way…

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    A week and a half ago, after you started making some nasty personal attacks against me, I called your daughter a $20 whore.
    .
    (Sure, even if I was responding to something you shouldn’t have said, I shouldn’t have said that)
    .
    You didn’t blink.
    .
    I watch something you found inspirational and, listening for specific content such as “The Tea Party believes, to finance tax cuts we should cut back spending on [please tell us where]” I got a very content-free patriotism and a quote from a speech from Abe Lincoln who was saying, in context, that slavery was an unspeakable evil and tell you what I did and did not hear in it and you are furious.
    .
    Clearly you love the Tea Party more than you love your daughter or, possibly, just claimed to have a daughter but do not have any daughters.

  • earljr1

    fatpatrick, you couldn’t sell peanuts to a starving monkey. You have NO sales personality, are unattractive and dumber than a rock. Face it fatboy, you are nothing but a loser. (or if it were you spelling this, it would be looser) Dumb Ass.

  • earljr1

    And you, fatpatrick, are in denial. The economy is in dire straights, unemployment is over 10%, he has broken virtually every promise he made and yet, you, in all of your infinite wisdom, think the American public will repeat the same mistake again. Face it fatboy, only people like you are that dumb. Keep up your but, but, but, rebuttal and sleepwalk until the election. What a rude awakening you will have. (I can hardly wait)

  • earljr1

    fatpatrick, you are a vile, disgusting person. I have seen a lot of weird people in my profession, but you take the prize! To call a man’s daughter a whore is BEYOND contemptible and only shows you for what you are….a no class, unprincipled individual and totally lacking in moral fiber. I’m sure your mother must be very proud.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Well, now you have impressed me.
    .
    First you know my personality?
    .
    Second, now I can imagine you as a doctor.
    .
    Man enters with bullet wound.
    .
    “You stupid Mother fkr! Why did you get shot! Look at you! You’re fat! Why should I save your lame ass life!”.
    .
    And you wouldn’t get fired after a week.
    .
    Yet, you are an expert on starving monkeys and how starving monkeys… buy things?
    .
    Just stop pretending to be somebody else, Earl.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “What a rude awakening you will have. (I can hardly wait).”
    .
    You know what is going to happen in 2012 already?
    .
    Obama’s popularity is bouncing back since the passage of HCR, just like I said.
    .
    He got in with 53% of the vote. He dipped down to 43%. He is now back to 49%. Follow the trajectory.
    .
    Long before 2012 he will be back at 53%.
    .
    Also, there are reasons to believe that the economy will be in far better shape by then.
    .
    When Reagan was at this point 28 years ago, there was 10% unemployment to. Did he win in 1984?
    .
    Yes.
    .
    What promises did Obama break?
    .
    One: Closing Gitmo.
    .
    What has he left undone for his promises: immigration reform.
    .
    What task does he have left to do which he promised after he became president: A stimulus package big enough to work.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “I’m sure your mother must be very proud.”
    .
    My mother is far more proud of me than your mother is of you living in her basement and leaching off of her when you are 47 years old.
    .
    You should have heard what 3X tossed at me, first.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Want to hear something vile?
    .
    How about a lie about death panels for political gain even though it would cost millions of people access to medical care.
    .
    Want to hear something vile?
    .
    How about scare tactics to convince people that 16,500 armed – armed – IRS agents are going to prowling around for political gain even though it would cost millions of people access to health care.
    .
    Want to hear something vile?
    .
    How about lying about WMD to convince an otherwise just country to attack a country for no reason other than political gain killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians of that country and thousands of our own soldiers.
    .
    Want to here something vile?
    .
    How about letting our national guard troops stand by while residents of the ninth ward of New Orleans are dying with bodies of loved ones floating down the street.
    .
    Want to here something vile?
    .
    How about rigging the vote in Florida denying tens of thousands of voters their right to vote to get your brother appointed president.
    .
    Want to here something vile?
    .
    How about editing a tape to ruin the career of an outstanding public servant for political gain.
    .
    Earl, you and the people you support wouldn’t know the first thing about morality if your lives depended upon it.
    .
    Yes, there are reasonable conservatives all of whom were disgusted by the incessant lying of the Tea Party activists and the Republican Party.
    .
    You, sir, are not one of them.
    .
    You are a pathological liar.

  • earljr1

    Your head is so wrapped in liberal fluff, you would not know reality if it bit you in your very large butt. Speaking of pathology, there is definitely some in your befuddled mind…I suggest that you get help before it is too late. btw, fatboy, I am 37 and at the pinnacle of my success. I replaced a failing heart this morning, what have YOU accomplished? Time to grab some lunch and converse with normal people. I have certainly wasted enough time with the likes of you.

  • http://milascurtains.wordpress.com milascurtains

    3xfire3 .
    I am so sorry for You – You still get all Your “facts” and outlook from faux News and live in Faux World so far.

    maybe it is time for selfrespect and start thinking?
    To think – it never hurts.

    Just start it.

  • http://milascurtains.wordpress.com milascurtains

    There is no necessity to be demonstrative Patriotic,
    You just should have brains to get it – Trash Party is really unorganized crowd of always angry people, always angry with the world for their failure.

    I guess there is a certain word characterizing this movement – what is exactly is – anarchy.
    Decent people would never go along with it.

    E just should ignore these tribes , like they do not exist in our society – the less they recognized the less they matter.

    p.s. I think it is media, who is making the Greatest Promotion for these nasty senseless people.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “I have certainly wasted enough time with the likes of you.”
    .
    After you’re done scrubbing the toilets at the hospital where you are an orderly, please feel free to not ever waste time here again.
    .
    What is not needed by anybody is denial of statistics, denial of scientific information without proof that it has been refuted, denial of economics unless the facts have been refuted and people lying about themselves.
    .
    None of those things are good for debate.
    .
    I will say this: I have the best of luck when arguing with you. Things were so dead and I just got in touch with somebody else who should be able to work on a small deal with me. It is fantastic considering what an awful year it has been.

  • earljr1

    I can well imagine fatpatrick having an awful year….with your nasty, mean disposition, be prepared for a lot of those. I wish you good success with this new client, however. Keep your snarky comments to a minimum and who knows? Even pigs find an acorn every now and then. My day is done, my transplant is doing very well (in between scrubbing those toilets you so desperately want me doing) and I feel VERY GOOD about all that was accomplished today. God is good and so is life. Selah.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Earl,
    .
    What part of the planet earth do monkeys buy things and pigs eat acorns?
    .
    LOL.
    .
    Look back, Earl and I was polite to you for the first five or six weeks but as time went on when you talked about people’s worthless lives (as fascists and other very hateful people do) and began to say things that sounded 0% like a doctor, I both began to lose respect for you and doubt that you were a doctor.
    .
    I actually talked with a emergency room technician once and even asked them. You were saying how common it is for people to be attacked with ice picks. I knew that was rare. He had seen every household appliance, sports equipment and tools in his victims, but never an ice pick. Why? If you want to use an ice pick, since they are so rare today, you have to order one in the mail, wait three to five business days and then attack somebody.
    .
    I began to pick up around there that you aren’t who you say you are.
    .
    But, if you decide that we worthless people aren’t worth you precious time since we do things like look at Gallop polls for our best estimate of who is pleasing the American people and who is going to succeed in future elections, that would just fine with me.
    .
    Glad you had a good day.
    .
    Have more by sticking to sights where everybody agrees with your highly, highly conservative views if liberals make you blood boil and have many more good days.

  • earljr1

    You asked an E.R. tech if he had ever seen an icepick and because he said no, you doubt my credentials? C’mon patrick, get real. Why not ask the next policeman you see. It seems to be the weapon of choice for the street thugs around here. Some refer to it as a stiletto, but to me, it looks like an icepick. All I know, is that I have had to open many a chest because of heart and lung piercing. I just asked my wife and she said yes, you can still buy icepicks at our local supermarket, on the hardware aisle. My conservative viewpoint is a personal choice, because I think a liberal ideology is ruinous for the country. You and I are polar opposites in this respect. Fine, lets leave it at that. This is what makes this country so great, we can disagree and no one gets sent away to a labor camp. Good luck with your client and you and I will undoubtedly,continue to butt heads, politically. I only hope the name calling and needless accusations cease….our world will be a more peaceful place.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Why not ask the next policeman you see. It seems to be the weapon of choice for the street thugs around here.”
    .
    In NYC, I did ask a cop.
    .
    He’s never seen it, either.
    .
    From my previous understanding, your “around here” is not in NYC.
    .
    Even when I did a temp day labor job while unemployed in a cold storage facility and even in my grandmother’s house where there had once been, before the 1940s, an actual ice box (as she called it the rest of her life – 1903 to 1988) before there was a refrigerator and I never saw an ice pick in any context at all.
    .
    Run a Google search on Ice pick and you will find Murder Inc, a Jewish street gang from the 1930s and Leon Trotsky in the early Soviet Union in the 1920s.
    .
    If your patient lived, then his idea would, most likely, point to the same individual responsible for all of the other ice pick killings around there.
    .
    In NYC it would be baseball bats, sledge hammers, sharpened screw drivers, dull screw drivers, hockey sticks, hockey pucks, silverware, broken drinking glasses, pots, pans and every household appliance, but not ice picks.
    .
    Relatively rarely is it a gun, either, since there are not many guns here, they are dramatically less than half of attempted murder weapons.

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