I Refudiate Palin

Joe, every time you post an article about Sarah Palin, God kills a kitten.

But my fellow Noo Yawkers–especially my fellow Jews–who made a mockery of themselves at the hearing should be sentenced to two weeks in Atlanta.
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Hey, hey. Lay off Atlanta. It may not quite be NYC, but it’s a far cry from Real American™ WASP-only towns like Wasilla.

While you brag about the diversity that New York City embodies, you fail to note that it contains almost no one who utterly lacks exposure to other cultures. How diverse can it be considered if such a large group of people are utterly unrepresented?

It is true, Paul, we New Yorkers are monotonically deprived.

It grates on my to see the project described as merely a ‘mosque’ — it’s a full-fledged community center, complete with an auditorium and swimming pool, the kind of place that integrates the best of American and Muslim values. I can think of no better repudiation of the sort who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks than an embrace of the true form of Islam in such close vicinity to the WTC site.

This HuffPost column makes a similar point http://www.huffingtonpost.com/asher-smith/refudiate-is-the-new-norm_b_651299.html

I don’t get to say this often, Joe. You’re right on all counts.

Joe,
“Strategery” was not apocryphal, it just wasn’t George W. Bush. It was Will Ferrell, imitating George W. Bush in a “Saturday Night Live” fake presidential debate with Al “Lockbox” Gore.

And please, I’m beggin’ ya, as a New Yorker who lives and works within spitting distance of this proposed “mosque,” please STOP saying it is “on the World Trade Center site.”

It’s not. It’s on Park Place, two blocks up and half a block over with several large buildings between, in the long-abandoned Burlington Coat Factory building. Once in a previous post and twice in this post you state directly that the building would be on the site. It is not and would not be. Such statements add fuel to those who (misguidedly, IMHO) stand in opposition to this plan.

Casual media consumers are certain that this “mosque” would be right there next to the 9-11 memorial and the edifice formerly known as the Freedom Tower. Just ain’t so.

Funny edit at the end JK.

Well said, sir. This is America. The kind of place where our celebration of diversity is so strong that what Palin thinks is a provocation is, in fact, just life. Especially in New York. We don’t need your help or advice, Sarah. Take it to the sticks.

But a quibble… why on Earth are Sarah Palin’s verbally flubbed opinions on such matter worth reporting at all? The next step for most half-term governors and losing ticket running mates is not typically media superstardom.

People who have served full terms as governor and run for president get less attention than Palin does. Maybe every time the media reports on Palin’s bloviations they should seek out a comment from some one more qualified like Michael Dukakis?

Agreed. Great post. I hadn’t a position on this mosque till now. Your argument makes sense to me. Put it at park place.

And what does your “all-American value system” make of this, Mr. Klein?

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/the-rest-is-silence/

I’ve noticed that Liberace has never made an issue of Obama’s use of the word “corpse” when he meant “corps.” He has done this at least twice.

“In fact, it is totally evil. If there ever was a place to demonstrate this country’s core value of religious tolerance, it is at the site of the World Trade Center.”

Except those proposing to build the mosque have expressed intolerance of this country’s core values. Liberace hasn’t mentioned that. And, after smearing Fox News for not running a political ad, Liberace has been silent concering the networks that have refused to run ads in opposition to the mosque.

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“Joe Klein”?
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He suffers from the forced indoctrination into a “Religion” as a child that deprives him of the ability to think ‘critically!
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Thus, his addiction causes the mental retardation of an illiterate due to a threat of “Eternal Damnation” if he should ever “Question” the “existence” of the ‘Mythological’ “Ghostly-Apparition” entity” whose ‘Agent’ he has been forced to kneel down in front of and plead for “Grace” and the riddance of the burden of something called: “Original Sin”!
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So don’t take’anything’ this Robotic toady ‘says’ seriously!
—————
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————————-Religion is Organized Crime!

——————— Mind control de-brains the masses
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I wish to THANK Sarah Palin for her wise and ‘thoughtful’ critical ‘refutation’ of ‘STUPID’ Mayor Bloomberg’s acquiescence and promotion of a “MOSLEM’s” “MOSQUE” in Downtown New York City.
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In July 19, 2010 Newspaper, and July 20, 2010 Newspaper there are more of the hundreds of articles delineating ‘Muslim’ “Jihad” “Suicide Attacks” in the City of Baghdad, Iraq that have KILLED thousands of PEOPLE!
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What will it take to convince fools like Mayor Bloomberg, Joe Klein, and others that the ‘Muslim” “Koran” directs ALL “Muslims” to “KILL THE INFIDELS”! (Those who don’t put their face in dirt for “ALLAH”?)
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And, that “Muslims” go to their “MOSQUES” and ‘Pray to “Allah” to ‘help’ them “KILL ALL THE INFIDELS”?
Does Mayor Bloomberg have a “DEATH WISH”? Or, is Mayor Bloomberg a “Closet Muslim”?
Or, has Mayor Bloomberg been ‘PAID OFF’ TO ALLOW SUCH AN ‘ATROCIOUS OCCURRENCE’?
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The GENIUS of Sarah Palin is readily discernible, and overt in her brilliant method of drawing attention to ‘THIS’ GHASTLY potential by creating an ‘impression’ of of error through the use of ‘HER OWN ENUNCIATED WORDS’!
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How else would the ENTIRE WORLD come to know of this disgraceful display of idiocy by those who encourage a “MOSQUE” MONUMENT to all those who FORCE “Suicide Bombers”
to wear explosives, and KILL themselves and SLAY others because they believe in a different Mythological Farce!
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DON’T LET THIS HAPPEN! MUSLIMS ARE KILLERS! READ THE “FIVE PILLARS OF ISLAM”!
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Hey Joe Klein. Any news on the Blogo trial? Are you going to continue the drivel on Sarah Palin in complete denial that the President of the United States of America is being portrayed badly by Blago, his former friend and confidant?
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Why is the liberal lame stream media so mute on the Blago trial? Why is there such an outrage on every word Saral Palin says, but this trial goes unreported. Maybe now that Blago will himself take the stand, we will get some reporting on this national news event.
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Do you think so Joe?

ATL, reprezentin’!

Except those proposing to build the mosque have expressed intolerance of this country’s core values.
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Cite?

Liberace?

I wish that the media would focus on the real problem with her tweet, the bigotry, and less on the grammar. Clearly she’s not a ninja with the written word but the idea that people should be opposed to the community center and mosque simply because it’s Muslim is grotesque. It’s amusing that the Tea Party Queen would make a statement like this at a time when the Tea Party has been trying to REFUTE accusations that racism is an inherent part of their movement. But there you are: the far right conservative movement doesn’t understand who attacked us on 9/11. We were attacked by extremist Muslim terrorists, not just average Muslims, but conservatives either don’t see the difference or see it but don’t really care. All they know is that Muslims are inherently suspicious simply by being Muslim.

Beautifully written and conceived, Joe Klein, the banality of Palin aside.

And to think that our news cycle is driven by rants like these.

Except those proposing to build the mosque have expressed intolerance of this country’s core values.
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Right. Where in our core values does it say that any citizen has the right to free exercise of their religion? Nowhere!

I thought Patrick got rid of this guy.
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As for Liberace, he’s still dead. To some degree, though I can see an analogy referring to the corporate media’s interest in flashy showmanship and shiny objects.

Let me guess:
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Liberace was a gay…

“Why is the liberal lame stream media so mute on the Blago trial?”

Maybe because at this point it’s a local issue and while Rod and his cohorts might be saying unflattering things about Obama, there’s never been any evidence supporting the idea that Obama and his people were collaborating with him? It’s like the birth certificate thing: fringe conservatives will grab hold of anything they can, regardless of how much or little evidence is available, to support their idea that Obama’s presidency is illegitimate. It’s been 20 months. He’s your president. Time to get over it.

Way to pound that keyboard!
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Now, do us all a favor and don’t buy another…

I appreciate the edit, Joe.
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And I’d imagine the 120,000 Jews who live in the city appreciate it too. (The city has the 11th largest Jewish population in America now.)

Malfunctioning Caps Locks are a bad thing.

Excellent article Joe: Build it. I think it would be a very evocative location, where the juxtaposition of the two will spur efforts on both sides to avoid extremism in the name of religion.

Joe Klein has come down with a major case of LWDS.
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An another outbreak of Sarah Palin LWDS hits Swampland.
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That’s twice in only two days.
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I have counted 10 new cases of LWDS in this article alone. I would recommend you all seek immediate help before it’s too late.
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For those who are not knowledgable about LWDS please read the following information. It could save your life.
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Sarah Palin Left Wing Derangement Syndrome [LWDS]
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Symptoms:
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1. Condition boarders on insanity.
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2. Extreme fear of Sarah Palin’s ability to influence a majority of Mainstream. Americans.
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3. Fear that Sarah Palin will influence more women to vote Republican.
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4. Fear that with Sarah’s help Republicans will gain control of both houses of Congress in November.
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5. Condition causes the near total loss of Reason and Common Sense.
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Treatment:
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Psychiatric care and possible confinement to a Psycho Ward at a local hospital.
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Left untreated this condition can be fatal.
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To be of service to my fellow commenters at Swampland, I will continue to do research on LWDS and report back from time to time on the results of my research.
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No need to thank me. I am happy to be of help to you people who have contracted this terrible disease. I have inlisted Dr. Earl to assist me on this very important project.

Isn’t this getting kinda old, 3x?
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Try another occupation.
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One that doesn’t require a minimum of eight years of study…

thanks for this, joe. dingbats like palin will never understand what makes our incredible city tick.

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Joe Klein???
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‘Your’— ‘TOLERANCE”?— epitomizes, condones, and perpetuates the spread of that—’pandemic plague’— that despoils the minds and bodies of children and fools like you!
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The worst form of child abuse is the warping of their minds with lies about UN-NATURAL mythical Geeks!
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Like the one you believe in!
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“Google it”!
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Grow up!
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New York can’t be that diverse as its certainly lacking the most important portion of humanity: Real Americans

Real Americans is a registered trademark of Sarah Palin Inc. This phrase is reserved language. Failure to attribute ownership after use will result in legal recourse by Real Americans and relocation to the penal colony of New York

– That said I’ve been disgusted by not only the reaction to all of this, especially by those Jews you mentioned (persecuted from the beginning of time Jews!) ((like myself!)), but by the entirely bigoted response by the Real Americans who can’t seem to understand the right to religion, the right to property, the right to free speech, etc, etc, etc. I was also disgusted by the report on CNN this morning when the reporter asked the owner of the new Muslim community center “Why not build a Jewish Community Center or Buddhist Community Center? Why do you need to make these people upset?” A better question, why hasn’t CNN fired this very bigoted reporter, and why was it ever aired as “Morning News”? I’d expect that sort of thing from fox.

^ Not endorsed by Palin Inc. International

…”inlisted”?

Actually, one of my favorite neologisms is “sarahdipity”.

And it’s bizarre to have people completely unfamiliar with NYC’s geography, and the proposed location of this particular center, comment upon it wrongly. The mosque/center is not even on WTC ground, to be opened in a building that’s already there. You don’t see NYers telling Palin where in Wasilla to build another ugly Walmart.

Obama, there’s never been any evidence supporting the idea that Obama and his people were collaborating with him?

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Yea, just like ALL of Obama’s associations, friendships and other assorted nefarious relationships he has over the years. Obama flies well below the radar so far as the lame stream media as represented by TIME.com is concerned. They would rather spend their valuable time on people like Sarah Palin, who will drive up their ragazine sales to the levels of the National Enquirer.
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I guess when you are so popular like Sarah is, why write about some boring half-witted President?
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Soon, as the death of the lame stream media happens, you will have a choice between Fox News or tabloid ragazines like the National Enquirer and TIME.com to get your news.

Oh no you di’int, Joe. Atlanta? Really? Do you know how many New Yorkers flee your (admittedly) fair city for mine? My wife and her entire extended family included?

I don’t disagree with your general position here, JK, especially given that the proposed mosque is blocks from the World Trade Center. I do, however, find it puzzling that you would say this:
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If there ever was a place to demonstrate this country’s core value of religious tolerance, it is at the site of the World Trade Center.
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Let’s just say, for the sake of argument, that the mosque was going up adjacent to the memorial. Let’s also just say, for the sake of argument, that the hijackers were in fact carrying out their attack in the name of their religion (an argument I’m less than sold on myself, but seems to be the prevailing sentiment outside the Truther movement.) Given these two theoreticals, would it not seem a bit odd -even potentially inciteful- to avow Islam at the actual site of the attacks, from a public safety perspective at the very least? I don’t see how this could be considered the perfect place for a mosque. I’m really wanting for an explanation of that statement.

Blago and Obama were never friends or confidants.

…and I won’t even go into our vibrant Muslim population, several of whom work with me on a nonprofit fighting poverty in the city.

So, Klein, you admit the linguistic significance of Sarah Palin, as you appropriate & use the latest Palinism to enter mainstream American English vocabulary?

Liberace was gay? I thought he was a lumberjack. I was under the impression that he’d handled alot of wood. I guess we learn something new every day.

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———————-Religion is organized crime!
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————————–The only way:
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—— “to avoid extremism in the name of religion”
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————————is to ‘out-law it!
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Put all the rotten phony Charlatan thieves and LIARS in jail with the rest of the filthy criminals who rape and rob little children of their ‘mind’s and their pennies!
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———————-Religion is organized crime!
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Yep. The water supply has been spiked.

JK: my recollection of the tragedies on 9/11 was that people from many nationalities, including Muslims and Arabs, were among the dead at the WTC and on some of the planes. At the time that was adequately reported. There is nothing uniquely Christian about the WTC. It housed an international community.

Which tells me how wrong this whole campaign is. And as commenters have pointed out, the proposed complex is not in the WTC.

How have we come to be so immune to fact based narratives?

Finally, can we have a moratorium on PalinPopPsychology?

Lumberjacks, eh?
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(which RW’er here wrote that complaint letter afterwards, cut off too soon from clip, alas)

Alert:
If the Musllims get Park Place what is to stop them from acquiring Boardwalk and then getting a Monopoly?!!!!!

Hooray !!! Every loon requires a certain dose of ‘refudiation’ every day just to keep them in the cesspool in the front yard of chimpy bush’s pig farm down in crawford… BUT, this loon requires a special dose… she should be ‘refudiated’ EVERY HOUR OF EVERY DAY to make sure that everyone around the world with more than 100 brain cells working knows the MOST PEOPLE totally DESPISE THE WOMAN. She deserves as much disdain as can be heaped on her daily..

“What will it take to convince fools like Mayor Bloomberg, Joe Klein, and others that the ‘Muslim’ ‘Koran’ directs ALL ‘Muslims’ to ‘KILL THE INFIDELS’! (Those who don’t put their face in dirt for ‘ALLAH’?)”
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JK and the King of New York–both Jewish “fools”–have sense enough to realize that paltry few Muslims have hatred in their hearts, unlike you apparently.

Joe Klein: “Palin’s intolerance runs counter to my all-American value system.”

Nothing is quite like reading America hating leftist loons declare their “all American value system”. What’s next? Will Klein, William Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Obama and his angry, bitter, virulent, militant wife Michelle “For the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country” Obama profess their “admiration” for the values of the United States military?

One point that was sort of touched on but not made explicit. This sort of controversey is exactly WHY the First amendment’s Freedom of religion clause was put in place in the first place.
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The colonist were rather sick of the ‘my God can Kick your God’s ass” mentality that had been driving European politics up to that point.
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If there’s ever a case where people are asking the government to infringe on Freedom of worship, this is it.

“inlisted”?
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I think they are on each others’ to-do list, decon…

Will my ‘get out of Jail Free’ card still work?

The Constitution of the United States of America:
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Amendment IV:
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http://www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/html/amdt4.html

Lately Groenhagen has been doing hit and run posts.
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I have no idea, even if I have to follow up further with the criminal charges for harassment and making criminal threats (both felonies and both prosecuted by the federal government if crossing state lines as Kansas and NYC do not share a common boarder) why he isn’t banned by Time from posting, but, at least he only posts once and then cuts and runs now.

What did you do to him, sacred?
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I can’t think of anything you can put in the water that does that!
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Terrorist fist bump…

Patrick:
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They probably would if you were to bring charges. I hope I’m not mistaken, but you have three years to do it.
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I would go after him, if I was you, but since I’m not you (except maybe according to LM), it’s your call…

Joe Klein Klein is ashamed of jews that spoke out against the Mosque at ground zero? Guess what. conservative jews like myself are terribly embarrassed by Joe Klein. He is a disgrace to Jews and Americans. He is a weak , appeasing , weasle.
He thinks he is so superior to the rest of us. Yet, he cannot quite graps the obvious. He hates Sarah Palin, because a loser like him, has never had a woman who looks like her give him the time of day!
I dont care how intellectual or how many degrees this idiot has. Anyone, with half a brain and common sense knows that a Mosque at Ground zero and opening on 9/11, is a very wrong and sick idea!

You might have a point, Exiled, if it were on the site, but it is, from what I’ve heard, two blocks away.
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I can understand the sentiment, but there is a point also to be made that even though I’m a Christian, the WTC memorial is not a Christian site either.
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I wonder where the closest Christian center of worship is located in relation to the WTC memorial?

“They would rather spend their valuable time on people like Sarah Palin, who will drive up their ragazine sales to the levels of the National Enquirer.”
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No, because finding out that insane religious fanatics are out there ready to harm to America are here, and Sarah Palin is their leader.
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If I used the right wing logic to say that since Fox professional liars such Glenn Beck get bigger paychecks than CNN commentators, then the National Enquirer is the ultimate publication to be worshiped since, like Fox news, they get paid large sums of money to lie.

“I can’t think of anything you can put in the water that does that!”
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Two words. Flouride.

Again, two simple lies:

1. The proposed center is NOT at Ground Zero.
2. It will NOT open on 9-11.

As astroland points out in comment 31, the proposed Mosque is not at Ground Zero and it will not open on 9/11. So why are you spreading lies? A mosque close to where the WTC site is will promote religious tolerance. Something I think you need a good dose of.

Oh really porky? Blago and Barack are not nor have ever been associates?
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And, it should be pointed out, Mr. Obama has a relationship with Mr. Blagojevich, having not only endorsed Blagojevich in 2002 and 2006, but having served as a top adviser to the Illinois governor in his first 2002 run for the state house.

In the Democratic gubernatorial primary that year, then-state sen. Obama endorsed former Illinois Attorney General Roland Burris. But after Blagojevich won, Obama came around enthusiastically. At the same time, meanwhile, Axelrod had such serious concerns about whether Blagojevich was ready for governing he refused to work for his one-time client.

According to Rep. Rahm Emanuel, D-Ill., Mr. Obama’s incoming White House chief of staff, Emanuel, then-state senator Obama, a third Blagojevich aide, and Blagojevich’s campaign co-chair, David Wilhelm, were the top strategists of Blagojevich’s 2002 gubernatorial victory.

Emanuel told the New Yorker earlier this year that he and Obama “participated in a small group that met weekly when Rod was running for governor. We basically laid out the general election, Barack and I and these two.”

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http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/12/questions-arise.html
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Oh well, we can be wrong and mistaken for sure, isn’t that right, mr porker?
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Believe me in Chicago politics everyone is everyone’s best friend until you stab them in the back. How else would a former State Senator, former self-professed community organizer, in a few short years end up as President of the United States of America? Dumb luck?

Maybe you can just copy and paste the same thing over and over and hope that somebody thinks you make sense the same way that trusty Rusty spent one week on the microscopically small, insignificant but (agreed) terrible New Black Panther party and is now beginning a new week with the former Governor of Illinois wishing that he could have used Obama to coerce a Republican prosecutor to if it weren’t for the facts that Obama did not know Blagojevich, had no reason to want to help him and had no ability to prevent the prosecution.
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Outside of Obama not having ties to Blagojevich, never hearing from Blagojevich and having no ties to Republican appointee Patrick Fitzgerald, you might have the makings of a scandal.
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If Blagojevich orders Kentucky Fried Chicken for lunch, I guess we should exhume the body of Colonial Sanders to see if he had anything to do with Blagojevich’s corruption.

53_3,
I’m aware that it is not on-site. I’m taking issue with the more hypothetical assertion that the WTC site would be an ideal location, as per JK’s statement. I have no qualms whatsoever with the current situation. Rest assured. I prefer Muslims to most Christians, at least American Christians.

I would rather be treated by Dr. Kevorkian than let Earl get within 100 feet of me.

Joe Klein is just not very smart — this is an argument he cannot and should not win. There are many places in Manhattan where it would be appropriate to build a mosque, but not so close to the WTC site. If it is built, it will stand — for as long as it stands — as a big middle finger to the people of NYC.
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This is like building a memorial to Jefferson Davis on the site where Martin Luther King was assassinated.
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I am not advocating violence or the destruction of property… but if the mosque is built there then they’d better make it very strong, because someone will try to take it down. And others will keep trying until they succeed.

It’s a four minute walk from the Milenium hotel across the street from Ground Zero to 45 Park Place:
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http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&lr=&q=Burlington%20Building%2C%2045%20Park%20Place%2C%20new%20york%2C%20ny&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl
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Since walking is the primary means of transportation in all of Manhattan, that is how it should be measured.
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You will not accidentally walk into the mosque when seeking to see Ground zero.

“…MOST PEOPLE totally DESPISE THE WOMAN. She deserves as much disdain as can be heaped on her daily…”
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I don’t think I care enough about her to despise her.
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She can be a total waste of time.
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Half of the right wing have wives so ugly that they have a deep seated desire to have sex with her.

Textee,
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NYC is my home.
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It is where I, also, work.
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STFU and go back to the cave your crawled out of.

I understand that explanation, but given it isn’t on the site, “ideal” may be a thing that is in the eyes of the beholder, and may also change with time.
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Of parallel interest, would a Christian place of worship* also not be in “ideal” location that close?
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I’m just stating my thoughts on it, and I don’t read anything into yours. My opinion is that it’s not the religion that should be at issue, it’s the terrorism, which is practiced in the name of all religions at one time or another. I’m just supplying food for thought…

*I keep using “place of worship” instead of church as there are many different Christian religious sects.

Joe,

I always was taught the word is “wordilate”, not “wordiate”?! Must be just out here in the hinternlands, I guess.

J,
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I do Manhattan commercial real estate.
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There are not many buildings in Manhattan for sale at a reasonable price. Prices are still up where they were before the financial crisis due to mortgages and so on. (See prices are sticky in economics).
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticky_%28economics%29
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It is a four minute walk from Ground zero. It is not visible from Ground Zero. It can never be mistaken for Ground Zero.
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This is a good place and it is, in reality, much further away than Trinity Church (predating the towers by more than century).
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It is mostly Long Island relatives of Firefighters who are the ones objecting. (A huge portion of the FDNY are multi-generation Irish Americans in either Long Island or other suburbs) with few locals concerned at all.
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It’s our city, it was our people (including a very distant cousin of mine, who I never met) who were killed.

Oh my God, you liberals. You want everyone to like you. Even at the expense of your own country’s safety. You can’t even see what is in front of your own eyes. This mosque is a slap in the face of all Americans who love their country. You can side with the supporters of this mosque, but I’m going to side with the majority of Americans who think that this is a huge mistake. You refudiate Sarah Palin? Well, I refudiate you, Joe Klein! (love that word!) Racist, my ass.

Patrick, sorry but not a nice statement about Rep wives. Not funny. Not relevant.

Wow. I never met someone who smiled so much yet was “angry” and “bitter”. Either my 56 years of reading body language is for naught, or “angry’ and “bitter” better describes…
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you…

No, it would be more like putting a site for worshiping in accordance with Jefferson Davis’ religion next to MLK’s memorial.
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Which would mean…
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posilutely nothing…

neorationalist86:
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I prefer Muslims to most Christians, at least American Christians.
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Before I take offense at that statement, being both a Christian and an American, and of that peculiar American philosophy which posits that humans are individuals to be judged on the basis of their own merits, I’ll offer you the opportunity to clarify that remark.
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Is there something particularly about Christian Americans that you find disagreeable in comparison to Muslims, neorationalist86?

Does colorful in any way amelifacate despicable?

Just to elaborate on what patricksartor is saying above:

We really need to establish some basic facts here.

Under this proposal, nothing will be “built” on this site—at least not in the sense that we’ll end up seeing a mosque like one would see in Baghdad or Cairo or Damascus.

We’re talking about an interior retrofitting of a long-abandoned industrial/retail building. It last housed a Burlington Coat Factory, for crying out loud. It’s a very crappy building on a relatively forlorn block. It was abandoned well before 9-11 and has never been occupied since. That’s one of the reasons it’s relatively affordable, at least in Manhattan commercial real estate terms. You cannot see the WTC site from the front of this building.

If this plan goes though, about the only thing casual observers might notice is that a decaying building is no longer decaying. The local community board overwhelmingly supported this project (which is VERY rare). The opposition is overwhelmingly from outside the neighborhood and outside New York City. To put this kindly, butt out.

Finally, a word to bellagrazi. Please don’t presume to lecture about a “slap in the face” to Americans who love their country and still feel the pain of 9-11. I live two blocks north of this site and work two blocks southeast of the site. I still feel 9-11 every day. I was there, as were many of my neighbors who don’t have any problem with this proposal.

Then again, I guess we’re not real Americans.

Fat Pat:

“I have no idea, even if I have to follow up further with the criminal charges for harassment and making criminal threats (both felonies and both prosecuted by the federal government if crossing state lines as Kansas and NYC do not share a common boarder) why he isn’t banned by Time from posting, but, at least he only posts once and then cuts and runs now.”

I’m still waiting for the FBI to contact me, loser. My guess is that if you did call them, they merely chuckled and dismissed you as a whiny liberal.

Of course, we would expect a liberal loser like you to call for the banning of those with whom you disagree. The communists and Nazis (your ideological cousins) did the same thing.

(.(_) pppppppfffffffffffffffffffffftttttttttttttttt

Fat Pat:

“It is a four minute walk from Ground zero. It is not visible from Ground Zero. It can never be mistaken for Ground Zero.”

If it’s a four-minute walk for you, then it’s probably 30 seconds for someone who is not morbidly obese.

See page 2.
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Trinity Church (Episcopalian) is about a one minute walk from ground zero.
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Not that Seattle is exactly the wilderness (I haven’t been there yet, but, I know it isn’t at all) you have to be in Manhattan to see how compact it is.
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Two random examples is, first, the ovens in apartments are smaller than anything you’d find in suburbs because the apartments are so much smaller (even in Queens, which is one of the four less famous boroughs, which is still very built up).
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Second, every chain restaurant like McDonalds, Dunkin Donuts and Wendys have standard issue seats set the same distance apart from one another, except for in most parts of NYC. The seats are smaller and closer together but, otherwise identical, (And I am comparing it to Boston where I spent fifteen years and NYC suburbs I grew up in – again, not rural). So, show up at a McDonalds here and you will, momentarily have an Alice in Wonderland sensation that you have not grown fatter or taller, but, have grown from shoulder to shoulder as these identical seats are packed in so tightly compared to suburban and other counterparts.

Sorry Miss Apr.
.
I hope I don’t have to clean the chalk boards.
.
(Let me a little rude sometimes!)

patton24:

“He hates Sarah Palin, because a loser like him, has never had a woman who looks like her give him the time of day!”

Palin’s critics are usually unattractive women or effeminate men. I have seen few, if any, exceptions to that observation.

For two years I drove a cab in NYC while between jobs.
.
Only 4% of NYC cab drivers were American born.
.
Guess what the majority religion was?
.
The cab garage was almost half empty on the last day (the celebration day) of Ramadan.
.
Sir, these are Americans now as they raise their children and grandchildren in New York.
.
McVeigh was raised Catholic, so, should you call my practicing Catholic Relatives non-American?
.
More so, my family is Irish Catholics including some from Belfast.
.
No, bomb making is not a part of CCD and not a part of Mosques, either.

I don’t care how fit and strong you say you are Groenhagen, for the last time, I am not going to have sex with you.

“mythical Geeks”? Like Merwin, God of the Protractor?

patricksartor:
.
Please don’t take this personally, but…
.
Half of the right wing have wives so ugly that they have a deep seated desire to have sex with her.
.
…what the crap are you talking about?
.
“wives so ugly”?

53_3,
I’m merely countering JK’s opinions on what he said would be suitable or ideal. I’m not arguing the actual facts on the ground, facts which I already stated I have no issues with. A mosque a few blocks away is an irrelevant development in my opinion.
.
As to your second question, whether a Christian church adjacent to the site would be different than a mosque, I think the question is unfortunately, yet undeniably, yes. It has nothing to do with whether or not the WTC itself is a Christian site. My objection is not that the WTC is not a Muslim site and therefore should not have an Islamic mosque adjacent to it. My position is that given the identities of the alleged hijackers, it could be irresponsible to allow the construction of a mosque there. As for Constitutional issues, there are thresholds for all Constitutional rights that must be weighed with public safety; a well entrenched legal limitation.

SZ,
I was being a bit facetious. I do have great adoration for the Arab world and its culture. Some of my fondest memories abroad are from Palestine and Jordan. I also do not hold a great many Christian sects in high regard. I find them diluted, feel-good, or altogether misguided. With that said, I have nothing against American Christianity as a whole, as both Catholicism and several other more admirable denominations comprise American Christianity. I give thee and Calvinism full exclusion from my rants.

jbaustian –

I was living and working in Brooklyn during the first attack on the World Trade Center back in 1993, quite close to the signature “Arab” neighborhood in the city (the New York “Arab” community, it should be noted, is mostly Yemeni and Lebanese and also liberally spread out throughout the city). I well remember at the time there was all kind of dark prophecies about the way the locals would take “retribution” on the Arab community (much of it, dare I say it?, wish fulfillment). Didn’t happen. If anything, most New Yorkers went out of their way to reach out to their fellow city residents and the city lumbered forward, as it inevitably does.

This time around, the great majority of city residents are fine with the proposed Islamic Community Center (the proposed site actually feels further away from the WTC site than it actually is). The two groups that are highly critical of the idea are certain ideologues, mostly, sadly, of the Jewish persuasion, who find this a good opportunity to demogogue on the trope of “You can’t trust an Arab of any sort, any where” and certain relatives of the 9/11 victims, who feel a high degree of ownership of the WTC footprint.

Of course, nothing delights us New Yorkers like folks who have never (or hardly ever) been here telling us how to plan and livwe in our city.

New Yorkers have plenty of faults: we can be arrogant, self-centered and overly ambitious (and the Yankee fans are even worse!) but there is also no more tolerant and mutli-verse place on earth, a fact that really driven home during the recent World Cup. I find it interesting that the people here are more appreciative of the fact that the towers were brought down by crazed fundalmentalists with warped agendas that has little to do with the great majority of the peaceful and patriotic Muslims who live here.

As for you, Patton24, as someone who has met the quite lovely Ms. Joe Klein, you are beneath contempt, despicable even in comparison to the other pustulant trolls that plague this site.

Help control the pet population: Have your cat spayed or refudiated.

No, Congress’s vote to authorize the President to invade and occupy a country that had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11 –while the Bush Administration and allied rightist ideologues exploited our tragedy nonstop– was the real slap in the face to us New Yorkers.

RE 12.7: You mean Flo Rida don’t you?

I saw the story – the reporter was trying to say to the guy that if you’re gonna get all hissy over a mosque, then using the guy’s logic you may as well slap down buildings for all faiths.

Hold it right there, Zechman. Your name’s Stuart Zechman and you’re not Jewish (21.6)? You split hairs with the panache of a Talmudic scholar and you’re not Jewish? Hey, I’m named “bobell” and I’m Jewish.
.
It’s not too late to convert. Consider the benefits: No more Christmas trees to dispose of; lox and bagels; holidays when the Christians don’t have holidays; Jewish heroes to worship like Don Rickles and Kerri Strug. Don’t just sit there — consult your local rabbi immediately.
.
That goes for the rest of you, too. Even the Muslims. Why not?
.
(And for JK — don’t forget “misunderestimate.”)

Whoooooaaaaaaaa. What are you saying about Long Islanders?

So should you put a church next to the Murrah building site (now a park) then?
.
“Racist, my ass”
.
…that’s not your only body part that is.

That reporter was talking to the man who was responsible for building the Muslim Community Center. She appeared angry and upset by the fact that it was being built, herself. It was not said in such a way that we were to draw the conclusion you made, and she left little room for the man who may have been the architect or owner to get a word in edgewise.

Maybe we saw different reports.

neorationalist86:
.
I give thee and Calvinism full exclusion from my rants.
.
Thank you, although the American version of the Dutch Reformed Church has managed to unwind itself from much of the seventeenth century movement’s dogma with respect to recipients of Grace being elect, although we’re obviously not justified through works, like you Catholics, but through faith, which is God’s perfect gift.
.
Thanks for clarifying, I shouldn’t be so touchy, probably.
.
You understand, I’m sure.

It’s all gravy. I could take offense at your common misconstruing of Catholic teaching as reliant solely upon works, but, eh, not really interested at the moment. Maybe next time, Zechman.

So, you come into the Swamp to find effeminate men to have sex with by logging in whenever there is a post about Sarah Palin or the military.

Fine!
.
I can say this, at least Liberals are critical of our own and don’t give people a free pass.

Hey Joe Klein. Where you the liberal shill when this happened or was it Tumulty? I’m betting both of you were in on it.
.

“It was the moment of greatest peril for then-Sen. Barack Obama’s political career. In the heat of the presidential campaign, videos surfaced of Obama’s pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, angrily denouncing whites, the U.S. government and America itself. Obama had once bragged of his closeness to Wright. Now the black nationalist preacher’s rhetoric was threatening to torpedo Obama’s campaign.

The crisis reached a howling pitch in mid-April, 2008, at an ABC News debate moderated by Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos. Gibson asked Obama why it had taken him so long – nearly a year since Wright’s remarks became public – to dissociate himself from them. Stephanopoulos asked, “Do you think Reverend Wright loves America as much as you do?”

Watching this all at home were members of Journolist, a listserv comprised of several hundred liberal journalists, as well as like-minded professors and activists. The tough questioning from the ABC anchors left many of them outraged. “George [Stephanopoulos],” fumed Richard Kim of the Nation, is “being a disgusting little rat snake.” ( And here we all thought it was George protecting his pal, Hillary).

Others went further. According to records obtained by The Daily Caller, at several points during the 2008 presidential campaign a group of liberal journalists took radical steps to protect their favored candidate. Employees of news organizations including Time, Politico, the Huffington Post, the Baltimore Sun, the Guardian, Salon and the New Republic participated in outpourings of anger over how Obama had been treated in the media, and in some cases plotted to fix the damage.

In one instance, Spencer Ackerman of the Washington Independent urged his colleagues to deflect attention from Obama’s relationship with Wright by changing the subject. Pick one of Obama’s conservative critics, Ackerman wrote, “Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares — and call them racists.” (now where have I not only seen this type of tactic, but have personally experienced it being used to attack me? Hmmmm)

Michael Tomasky, a writer for the Guardian, also tried to rally his fellow members of Journolist: “Listen folks–in my opinion, we all have to do what we can to kill ABC and this idiocy in whatever venues we have. This isn’t about defending Obama. This is about how the [mainstream media] kills any chance of discourse that actually serves the people.”

“Richard Kim got this right above: ‘a horrible glimpse of general election press strategy.’ He’s dead on,” Tomasky continued. “We need to throw chairs now, try as hard as we can to get the call next time. Otherwise the questions in October will be exactly like this. This is just a disease.”

(In an interview Monday, Tomasky defended his position, calling the ABC debate an example of shoddy journalism.)

Thomas Schaller, a columnist for the Baltimore Sun as well as a political science professor, upped the ante from there. In a post with the subject header, “why don’t we use the power of this list to do something about the debate?” Schaller proposed coordinating a “smart statement expressing disgust” at the questions Gibson and Stephanopoulos had posed to Obama.

“It would create quite a stir, I bet, and be a warning against future behavior of the sort,” Schaller wrote.

Tomasky approved. “YES. A thousand times yes,” he exclaimed.

The members began collaborating on their open letter. Jonathan Stein of Mother Jones rejected an early draft, saying, “I’d say too short. In my opinion, it doesn’t go far enough in highlighting the inanity of some of [Gibson's] and [Stephanopoulos's] questions. And it doesn’t point out their factual inaccuracies …Our friends at Media Matters probably have tons of experience with this sort of thing, if we want their input.”

.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/07/20/documents-show-media-plotting-to-kill-stories-about-rev-jeremiah-wright/print/#ixzz0uFRd9bB6
.
Wouldn’t you all like to know if Joe Klein is a member of the now infamous, “Journo-list”? Now that might make a great blog posting. How about it Joe?
.
Or was it Tumulty? You can now blame her because she isn’t here anymore.

“What are you saying about Long Islanders?”
.
That Long Islanders do not live in New York City and many of the relatives of the FDNY who did complain are Long Islanders.

Watergate
.
“Throughout this time, Nixon still denied any involvement in the ordeal. However, after being told by key Republican Senators that enough votes existed to remove him, Nixon decided to resign. In a nationally televised address from the Oval Office on the evening of August 8, 1974, the president said,

In all the decisions I have made in my public life, I have always tried to do what was best for the Nation. Throughout the long and difficult period of Watergate, I have felt it was my duty to persevere, to make every possible effort to complete the term of office to which you elected me. In the past few days, however, it has become evident to me that I no longer have a strong enough political base in the Congress to justify continuing that effort. As long as there was such a base, I felt strongly that it was necessary to see the constitutional process through to its conclusion, that to do otherwise would be unfaithful to the spirit of that deliberately difficult process and a dangerously destabilizing precedent for the future….
I would have preferred to carry through to the finish whatever the personal agony it would have involved, and my family unanimously urged me to do so. But the interest of the Nation must always come before any personal considerations. From the discussions I have had with Congressional and other leaders, I have concluded that because of the Watergate matter I might not have the support of the Congress that I would consider necessary to back the very difficult decisions and carry out the duties of this office in the way the interests of the Nation would require.
I have never been a quitter. To leave office before my term is completed is abhorrent to every instinct in my body. But as President, I must put the interest of America first. America needs a full-time President and a full-time Congress, particularly at this time with problems we face at home and abroad. To continue to fight through the months ahead for my personal vindication would almost totally absorb the time and attention of both the President and the Congress in a period when our entire focus should be on the great issues of peace abroad and prosperity without inflation at home. Therefore, I shall resign the Presidency effective at noon tomorrow. Vice President Ford will be sworn in as President at that hour in this office.[2″
.
Too off topic?
.
I thought the topic was ancient history.

I’ve been exchanging insults with too many of the wingnuts and have gotten too used to launching insults.

bobell:
.
Your name’s Stuart Zechman and you’re not Jewish (21.6)?
.
No, I’m not…not that there’s anything wrong with assuming for whatever reason that I was…
.
You split hairs with the panache of a Talmudic scholar and you’re not Jewish?
.
I had thought it was apparent to all that my reasoning springs from the fertile intellectual ground of Pauline wisdom with respect to the primacy of the spirit of the law over the letter. You know that “Holy Spirit” thing we cross-kneelers tend to go on about? That’s this guy Saint Paul (he’s old) and his idea that the words in, say, Book of Leviticus, might not be as important as the meaning we were meant to understand. He wrote a letter that outlined why we were not necessarily supposed to be poring of the text of the law in order properly fulfill ceremony and ritual (the real reasons for which were never really supposed to be comprehended by humans). We were told that there really, literally was a “spirit of the law” –this Holy Ghost thing– which would be revealed to us when we adopted a more convenient lifestyle of showing up at a community center once a week to sip wine and eat crackers with our families, without necessarily worrying about how much or little of our heads were covered at the time.
.
Being (relatively) committed to the use value of Platonic taxonomy does not make one legalistic per se. I could go on and on about that some more, but it might appear that I am a renowned rabbinical scholar, and not a former guitar-player in a rock band.
.
Consider the benefits: No more Christmas trees to dispose of; lox and bagels; holidays when the Christians don’t have holidays; Jewish heroes to worship like Don Rickles and Kerri Strug. Don’t just sit there — consult your local rabbi immediately.
.
Fortunately, all the Judaica in Christendom is abundantly available to me for consumption of mass quantities, since I live in the East Village in New York City. Even the Indian deli managers have become adept at producing their own style of knish. I’m not joking about the knish. It’s true. (Never joke about the knish.)
.
I will consider conversion as you advise, though, in light of how my Easter celebrations might be transformed into the kind depicted here:
.

pppppppppppppffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffftttttttttttttttttttttt!

The one thing I’ve noticed about Palin is her ongoing display of ignorance seems to have had no impact on her willingness to continue saying stupid things.

Putting a mosque at Ground Zero is like putting up a statue of Slobodan Milosevic in Srbenica. It might make arrogant left wing apologists like Joe Klein feel tingly, but the rest of humanity has the good sense to be nauseous.

I wonder if the grizzly mama would be opposed to Christians erecting a community center or church near the site of the Oklahoma City Govt. building bombed by McVeigh and Nichols who were christian.

I suspeculate not!

Well said, SZ. We’ll have knishes at Ratner’s the next time I’m in town. My treat. With blintzes for dessert — why not?

No American would ever have any reason to oppose building a Church near the Murrah Building. If, however, a militia wanted to set up camp in the parking lot, I suspeculate she’d be leading the charge against them.

Get your metaphors right, jackoff.

No, it would be like building an orthodox church somewhere in the former Yugoslavia.
.
1) Orthodox Christians predate Slobodan Milosovic by many centuries just as Muslims pre-date 9/11 by many centuries.
.
2) The Presence of Orthodox Christians, who shared the former Yugoslavia with Catholics, Muslims and Jews predate ethnic cleansing by many hundreds of years just as Muslims in New York long predate 9/11.
.
The proposed site is not very near at all in real terms. If you hop into a cab it doesn’t take long to get between the two, but, outside of that, you will have to go out of your way to get between them.

“If, however, a militia wanted to set up camp in the parking lot, I suspeculate she’d be leading the charge against them.”
.
If, however, Obama wins a second term. I suspect she, in her hunger for fame, will be leading the militia group to get a chance to sell more books to even further right wing people.
.
BTW: Similar to Christian practice, Muslims are forbidden from bringing firearms or other weapons into a Mosque.
.
Get your metaphors right, kujan.

kujan,

So you are saying that the entire Muslim religion is actually a militia and have chosen to personally attacking me in the process.

Let me guess, you have not made much of your life and you blame pretty much everyone but yourself. Instead of dealing with the feelings of abandonment and abuse wrought upon you by your father. Further more, you lash out at everyone in an attempt to alleviate the pain you feel because of your deep-seeded homosexual fantasies.

I don’t know maybe daddy spanked you too hard or you enjoyed it too much, either way stop self hating and come-out already.

“Believe me in Chicago politics everyone is everyone’s best friend until you stab them in the back.”
.
I have a very strong suspicion that your knowledge of Chicago and Chicago politics is as weak as it is of New York City.
.
You didn’t even know that our mayor is the 8th Wealthiest men in the United States and Jewish, for example.

“As for Constitutional issues, there are thresholds for all Constitutional rights that must be weighed with public safety; a well entrenched legal limitation.”
.
I think that the public safety issue will pertain as a possible argument, but such an argument would undoubtedly weaken as time passes.
.
I think the Constitution is to prevent us from acting against our own best interests, especially in the heat of the moment.
.
It depends, I guess, to what degree we collectively would want to circumvent the Constitution to accomplish it. Arguments can be made to varying degrees, especially with respect to terrorism, but I’m not sure the religious aspect.
.
Also, while there is a lot of religion in politics these days, the fact that the lines are blurring a bit is not, in my opinion, become an institutional aspect of our county. Our constitution states clearly that we are a mostly Christian country ruled by a secular government.
.
As a side, I wonder what insurance company might be willing to underwrite the construction? Or to underwrite the building itself. It might be that the market, in this very unusual situation, might be able to accomplish what the government should not do…

…should become an institutional aspect of our country.
.
Sorry about the lack of clarity, and to elaborate a bit on the public safety issue and the market. Good food for thought here:
.
By the same Constitutional restraints, the government could not force anyone to underwrite the project. Nor do I think the government be able to underwrite it itself.
.
It is entirely possible that the fate of the project might be decided outside the realm of politics…

To make a long story short, I found today out that I do have to jump through more hoops than I thought to get Groenhagen to refrain from illegal threats and so on, but, it will get done.

We both make more sense than groeny…

Patrick,
.
“weren’t for the facts that Obama did not know Blagojevich, had no reason to want to help him and had no ability to prevent the prosecution.”
.

Do you always deny reality. Obama not only knew Blago, he was in bed with him.
.
Read post 13.5

Fat Pat:

“To make a long story short, I found today out that I do have to jump through more hoops than I thought to get Groenhagen to refrain from illegal threats and so on, but, it will get done.”

With the size of your belly, I don’t think you’ll be jumping through any hoops any time soon.

You’re such a loser and a joke.

Fat Pat:

“So, you come into the Swamp to find effeminate men to have sex with by logging in whenever there is a post about Sarah Palin or the military.”

No, you’re not my type. Sorry, loser. If you keep buttering up Joe Klein, you might have a chance with him.

Buttering?
.
Is that what you like to do before gay sex?
.
I am not familiar with gay sex, but, since I have all of your information I will be happy to find a gay website give them your phone number, your work phone number, email and everything else so that you can get busy with gay sex and leave heterosexual men like me alone.
.
I am so glad that I am not your type.
.
Maybe I should look for gay websites which like men covered in butter for you.

Groenhagen Advertising
2612 Cranley St
Lawrence, KS 66046-5306
Phone: (785) 841-9417
Website: Seniormonthly.net
Annual Sales (Estimated)
Less than $500,000
D&B: $50,000*
Employees (Estimated)
1 to 4
D&B: 1*
.
Kevin L Groenhagen
Age 47
Lawrence, KS
Eudora, KS
KS
.
Relatives:
Andrea Lorenzo Groenhagen (42)
Karen Joann Groenhagen (67)
Mc Louth, KS

.
Likes melted butter for lubrication.
.
I bet gay guys will love how lean and fit you are.
.
Just let me know when you are coming out of the closet and, hopefully, getting out of swampland and you’ll have lots of hot buttered friends in Kansas.

All the Liberal Loons Rant
.
“Everyone Hates Sarah Palin”
.
Let’s not let Joe Klein or the Facts get in the way of the Truth.
.
According to the latest Gallup poll
.
……….Favorable…..Unfavorable…..No Opinion
Obama…..47%…………….45%……………….8%
.
Palin…….44%……………..47%………………9%
.
Doesn’t appear everyone hates Palin. Her ratings are very close to Obama.
.
Considering how the left wing and MSM has demonized her, it’s amazing her poll numbers are so high. If she had the positive coverage that the LSM gives the chosen one she would probably be way ahead of him.
.
Facts can be so depressing to Liberals.

“Palin is the best known of the five to all Americans, but with a decidedly mixed image: 44% rate her favorably and 47% unfavorably. Her image is similar to that of former Speaker Gingrich, who has lower name recognition, but similar closely divided favorable and unfavorable ratings. The other three Republicans are not as well known, but are viewed more positively than negatively.”
.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/141341/palin-favorable-among-republicans-tops-others-gop.aspx
.
“At the same time, the other four potential candidates measured also have positive images among Republicans, even if their name recognition is lower. Huckabee and Jindal have the least baggage among Republicans, with lower unfavorables than the other three, but the differences in these negatives are relatively small.

One consideration in any party’s choice of a candidate is how well he or she would do in the general election. At the moment, three of these Republicans — Jindal, Huckabee, and Romney — have net positive images among all Americans. Palin and Gingrich are saddled with more mixed reactions from the public. As history shows, however, images can change. Romney, for example, had a net negative national image at some points in 2007 as he campaigned for the GOP nomination, significantly different from his more positive image today.”
.
This is very preliminary.
.
Remember how Hillary was going to get the nomination but get beaten by McCain back in 2006 for the 2008 campaign?

You inverted Palin’s approval and disapproval numbers and for Obama it is 45% disapprove and 47% approve.
.
You reversed those numbers as well.
.
I hope you weren’t doing the books for your company inverting expenses and income.
.
If you did you would be in jail right now.
.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx
.
Then again, lying is the Republican way of the 21st century.

Patrick,
.
Appearently you need glasses. No inverted in post only in your mind.

You two are both acting like jerks.
.
This is a public forum. Have a little self respect. Knock it off.

“PRINCETON, N.J., July 19 (UPI) — President Obama’s highest 2010 half-year approval ratings are in Washington, D.C., and Hawaii and the lowest are in Wyoming, Gallup reported Monday.

In general, Obama’s greatest support was in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic states while most of his lower ratings were in Mountain West and Southern states, results indicated.

Obama averaged 49 percent job approval nationwide during the first six months of 2010, Gallup said. ”
.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/07/19/Gallup-Obama-gets-49-percent-approval/UPI-43861279558263/
.
3X,
.
You should be familiar with the concept of a trajectory.
.
It is very often used in physics but, sometimes, has it’s place in economics and, also, studying polls.
.
Obama, just as I said when he was at an all time low during the fights about HCR when lies about death panels and 16,500 armed IRS agents were at their peak, is regaining popularity as it becomes clearer and clearer that extreme right wingers like Sarah Palin lied completely and, although it is not anywhere near what he promised or originally sought, is, absolutely, not going to do harm to people and does add coverage to those not covered.
.
Maybe you should relax on your easy chair with scotch and watch a good movie now.
.
Things aren’t going your way in politics this week.

You think Palin’s ratings are bad? What do you think of Obama’s? Not a good deal of difference.

“Patrick,
.
Appearently you need glasses. No inverted in post only in your mind.”
.
I am mistaken because your numbers are not too exciting for Palin with so many who dislike her.
.
“Not a good deal of difference.”
.
There is one thing conservatives often miss: Obama is not a far left or even left president. He is center by center left at best.
.
How many of those who do no approve of his work want him to be more liberal?
.
Many.
.
I went through this last week when we saw numbers which included a fairly large percent of people who disapproved of both parties in congress. Who would disapprove of both conservatives and centrist/centrist liberals (like the direction North by Northeast – not really Northeast, more North, like not really liberal, but more like centrist) would be outright liberals.
.
Also notice that since the two of us joined Swampland at Obama’s lowest point, he keeps on, very slowly, recovering.
.
Palin gains enemies as fast as she gains friends.

“This is a public forum. Have a little self respect. Knock it off.”
.
Groenhugger thought it would be fun to contact my workplace the first time I disagreed with him.
.
He then said that he would send buddies of his in NJ to come over here to NYC to come after me.
.
It, also, although far more minor, doesn’t help that Freeinpa, rusty and (not online now) Earl all started making personal insults he started about how he thinks I am too heavy.
.
I disagree with 3X but, since he is not making ad hominem attacks, I am not making any against him.

If you were wondering where Patrick found the basis of his insult, you can refer to item #30 below:
.

“Guess what. conservative jews like myself are terribly embarrassed by Joe Klein. He is a disgrace to Jews and Americans. He is a weak , appeasing , weasle.
He thinks he is so superior to the rest of us. Yet, he cannot quite graps the obvious. He hates Sarah Palin, because a loser like him, has never had a woman who looks like her give him the time of day!”
.
Yes, oddly enough there is a large portion of her supporters who see a pretty object to obsess over as much as, or moreso than, a political leader.
.
That doesn’t justify the comment of course, but there is certainly a bit of Palin fanboys out there, focused on her being “her” and not her actually saying anything substantive.

You are missing the point Joe.

http://ikejakson.wordpress.com/2010/07/15/why-she%e2%80%99s-for-real/

Fair enough 3X,
.
Look at the link and you will, also, find this:
.
“There are no allegations that President-elect Obama or anyone close to him had anything to do with any of the crimes Gov. Blagojevich is accused of having committed.

In fact, there are indications that Mr. Obama and his team refused to go along with the “pay to play” way Blagojevich is accused of operating, offering only “gratitude” if the governor appointed his friend Valerie Jarrett to take his U.S. Senate seat, much to the governor’s chagrin.”
.
It is possible that a desperate corrupt man wanted the, then, president elect to do something illegal and unethical and he and/or his advisers turned him away.
.
Looking at Rusty’s NAACP story just blown to bits as a complete lie and distortion by Andrew Briebert, I am very reluctant to take Rusty’s sources of information all that seriously.
.
If Rusty is right, relax. You and your party will end up getting points for this.
.
Who knows what was said or implied when as you have a criminal and his co-conspirator brother on trial.
.
Wait for phone records, etc and then it might be one tenth as awful as Rusty thinks it is.

To me, it would be like if you are in a tough section of Toledo and a drug dealer asks you if you want to buy some crack and you say, “uh no” and go away.
.
Bl… the Illinois governor made an unreasonable proposal Obama may have heard himself and Obama turned him away.
.
It sounds as unreasonable as, if the scenario above happened accusing you of facilitating crack dealers.

You never know what you will find when you clear a building site:

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/black-box/

“The smiler with the knife under his cloak” . . .

This whole brouhaha is bizarre to me. It’s not illegal (at least not until Palin gets elected to high office) to be a Muslim (this term could be replaced with any ethic, religious or community designation) in this country and it is not illegal for Muslim’s to own land. It is clearly illegal to discriminate based on religion, ethnicity or group affiliation. Why is there even a discussion about this group’s ‘right’ to build near the site of the WTC (and I agree with other posters, it would be very helpful if the MSM would be clear about that fact that this site is NOT on the WTC site)? All Americans are guaranteed the freedom to become stakeholders in this great country. It seems like Palin and her idiot followers who ‘love our freedoms’ are totally missing the importance of that particular freedom in their quest to encourage the Land Use Commission to break the law.

What is equally disturbing is how the MSM has played into their hands. One morning network host actually said “Should Muslim’s have the right to build on the site of the WTC?” WTF? Ignoring the fact that this building isn’t ON the site of the WTC, if they are citizens and can afford it, of course they have the ‘right.’ How can a supposed journalist even frame the question in a way that suggests American Muslim’s don’t have the same rights that other American’s take for granted? It is really shameful.

analoracle;

I find it mildly confusing that you first shout (from the rooftops) that Religion is Organized Crime, and then in the next breath, praise one of the kingpins of said criminal organization: Ms (Nailin’) Palin, she who thinks the United States should forgo the Constitution and Bill of Rights and turn the country into a Christian theocracy.

I would like you to explain the discrepancy.

Of note: one of JK’s favorite games over the years has been, anytime some conservative says something stupid, to DEMAND that all other conservatives repudiate the stupid remark – or else, it must be presumed, be in agreement therewith. Well: we now know JK was a Journolister, and part of conversations where doing physical violence to conservatives was discussed. JK himself seems to not have advocated violence. But as a conservative, I DEMAND he repudiate those who did. Or else, it must be assumed, he implicitly endorses their tactics.

And of course, since so many liberals, including those who post here, have condemned the frightening violent threat of Tea Partiers, I’m sure they all are shocked and dismayed by liberal Journolisters fantasizing about engaging in physical violence against conservatives.

So how ’bout it, Joe? If you’re not too busy vacationing on the Cape and sanctimoniously congratulating yourself for keeping the AC off – repudiate!

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————-For ALL those who don’t read Newspapers
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—————————–HERE ARE
The best reasons for rejecting the construction of a Moslem’s Mosque in downtown New York City:

——————-This is a COPY
of University of Michigan Professor Indred S. Wichman’s e-mail to the University’s Muslim Student’s Association in response to the students’ protest
of the Danish cartoons that portrayed the Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist.
The group had complained the cartoons were ‘hate speech.’

Dear Muslim Association,
As a professor of Mechanical Engineering here at MSU I intend to protest your protest.
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I am offended not by cartoons, but by more mundane things like:
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beheadings of civilians, cowardly attacks on public buildings,
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suicide murders, murders of Catholic priests (the latest in Turkey),
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burnings of Christian churches, the continued persecution of Coptic Christians in Egypt,
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the imposition of Sharia law on non-Muslims,
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the rapes of Scandinavian girls and women (called ‘whores’ in your culture),
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the murder of film directors in Holland, and the rioting and looting in Paris France.
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This is what offends me, a soft-spoken person and academic, and many, many of my colleagues.
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I counsel you dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Muslims to be very aware of this as you proceed with your infantile ‘protests.’
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If you do not like the values of the West – see the First Amendment – you are free to leave.
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I hope—that most of you choose that option.
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Please return to your ancestral homelands and build them up yourselves instead of troubling Americans.
Cordially,
I. S. Wichman
Professor of Mechanical Engineering
-
-

There is only one proper way to use “refudiate,” and that is in the sense of repudiating someone who cloaks themselves in Shakespeare when claiming a malaprop is a new word.

More here: http://www.sco.tt/scott_yates/2010/07/i-refudiate-sarah-palin.html