Buy This Product

This reminds me of “but American” and green products.

At the end of the day, there are two major questions:

1) How good is the product.

2) How much more does it cost?

$2, $3 or $4 more is one thing. Double the price or sell shoddy material and that’s going to flop.

I’ve never bought a T shirt, except for an undershirt for myself in my life, so…

One of the reasons Republican Congressmen are consistently against extending unemployment benefits, is because they know that if people are hungry enough, they will take jobs that are less that what they think they are worth driving down wages for everybody.

The fact that squeezing people on wages means that they are simultaneously weakening their customer base gets lost in the shuffle.

Anywhere where there’s a big disparity between what people are willing to work for and what represents a ‘living’ wage, there’s an opportunity for businesses to rake in extra profit. This is of course why, even though they won’t admit it, the Republicans love the wealth gap they’ve helped create.

JK: In Atlantic Canada for a few days. It’s hot so I am watching tv inside a/c room. The only talkfest is MTP due up in two hours. It ‘s 1.50 pm now. The run up on MSNBC is something to behold: Murder in Lover’s Lane, Buried Secrets, MTP and then Deadly Dreams. Now that is programing for you.

The Canadians appear to be faring better on jobs and their dollar is 95c to the dollar; up over time from 70c. And their banks are the soundest in the G20. Maybe some of our media folks should spend some time here.

I totally agree with you.
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The workers (i.e. non-management) being a massive majority of the workforce are, also, a massive majority of the consumers. So, what confuses Republicans is low wages = low consumer demand = low profits and layoffs for workers and management.
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The fact that the minimum wage is not a living wage is absolutely, totally pathetic.

“Buy American”? That’s so… nationalistic. Joe Klein is above such jingoism; he’s a true citizen of the world! Rather than acting like a “yahoo” and supporting clothing production inside the U.S. done by (ugh) Americans, he’s following the enlightened, liberal path of moving manufacturing to foreign countries so that they might prosper instead. Please don’t mention “buy American” or your other chauvanistic, xenophobic, racist, anti-people phrases here again.
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P.S. Click here to read more pearls of wisdom from Joe Klein.

Wow! That’s great news! I think I’ll move there immediately. I’d better get started on my citizenship application immediately, cuz no doubt there’s bound to soon be a mass exodus toward there from this horrible country.

2thirdsrocks: It is ok for other people to be proud of their countries. It is ok for Americans to admit some other countries may have an advantage on us in some areas. Always insisting on American exceptionalism makes for a closed mind. It is ok to appreciate and learn from others and still be a loyal American.

what a load!
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neither of you see any need to back up that unlikely accusation so there’s nothing to debunk, but the motives people invent to explain the behavior of their opposition just keep getting more and more hilarious. demonization is approaching an almost literal level

Yes, indeed it was so wrong for America to be by far the greatest country on the face of the earth. So wrong for it to be the country that the downtrodden from all parts of the world yearned to come to because of it’s freedom and opportunity. Now that our previously staunch allies have lost their respect and loyalty for us, all is finally being put right. Yes, America is finally being put in her place. Other countries haven’t caught up to us in terms of strength, security and economic prosperity, we’ve simply been lowered to their level. Justice has been served, America is getting hers.

Yes, 2thirds, it is truly every immigrant’s dream to come to this great country and get called a “raghead” by an old racist a$$hole like you.
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http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/02/17/marc-theissen-the-catholic-view-of-waterboarding-and-the-victims-perspective/#comment-134953
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This country has a lot of things that make it great. People like you aren’t one of them.

…the country that the downtrodden from all parts of the world yearned to come to because of it’s freedom and opportunity.

Now show me your papers.

2thirdsrocks

You are wrong. In Canada, we did better economically because we have regulations that the USA do not have. However, contrary to your idea, as an ally to the USA, Canada has never lost respect and loyalty for the American people. We are still fighting in Afghanistan because our Nato ally has been attacked on 9/11.

I find your comment quite offending.

Kattest,
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Actually, the more common motto was “look for the union label”
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It was unionized businesses paying a living wage in the US.
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I was a child when this was the campaign in the 1980s and, if nationalism + worker solidarity does not equal enough sales, then I do doubt that worker solidarity for a living wage even without nationalism will do much, either.

No offense to your canadian military or you for that matter. You’re snipers are truly awesome. As the father of a US Marine Afghanistan vet, I humbly thank them for their help. He sent me a video of your snipers blowing limbs off ragheads from unbelievable distances. Truly a sight to behold.

Yes kevikins. Only those who shamelessly bury their heads up B.O’s bunghole can be considered great Americans.

A damn good idea schlepwang. Show proof of citizenship and you can stay. It’s that simple.

Swiss,
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There are two possible consequences for an unemployed person who no longer gets benefits:
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1)Being permanently unable to pay for their children’s college education, moving to a poor neighborhood with lesser public schools and, possibly, being evicted from the home they live in by a landlord or, if they own, by a bank permanently damaging both their credit and their employablity.
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2) Get a lower paying job and still experience some of these consequences.
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3) One other possibility is that Republican leadership has a three year olds understanding of unemployment by the presumption that a job paying just as well which they are fully qualified for is around the corner.
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4) A fourth possibility is that John Boehner and the Republicans leadership would do anything including pimp out their own mother to deny Democrats a victory.
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So, watering down wages is the least insulting to the morality (as if Republicans like option #1 they are just plain psychopaths enjoying human suffering) or intelligence (which means that they know that nobody who is accustomed to and able to work would stop for far more than a week between jobs given the possibility of similar pay.
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Given the fact that no normal person would do nothing for a living at half of their old wages while a job paying near their old wages is available and may disappear if they hang around and not take the job what else is there in terms of possible explanations for Republican behavior?
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So, if this, the mildest assessment I can imagine, is “demonizing” Republicans, please tell me what is a more fair assessment.

2thirdsrocks

You are a despicable person.

I never in my dream thought that someone would describe the Canadian troops the way you are doing.

I hope you never travel outside the USA because, I am sure, you are giving a terrible image of the USA, People like you are responsible for the lack of respect certains Americans face when they visit the world.

Stop asking yourself why certain persons lack respect for the Americans. Frankly, look at yourself in the mirror. They lack respect for people like you and, gladly, you are only a minority in the USA.

Why do I have this feeling that 2/3rds brain used to have arguments going on for hours and hours on end about “my dad can kick your dad’s butt” back when two thirds was a wee lad of 45 years old?
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First, Canada is, by far, the most similar country to the US of any country in the world.
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Second, even if you want to say that, by any quantifiable standards that the US is the best in the world that does not mean we have all things better than all other countries at all times.
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I have a cousin who is an American Ex-patriot to Canada. Why? Her husband, whom she originally met in the Mid West is Canadian and she loves it.
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I bet if you had a cousin go to Canada that you would shoot them.
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Also, two thirds brain, the reason other countries lost respect for us was that some raving lunatic in order to give contracts to the vice president and help him win a re-election he would have lost attacked the wrong fckng country killing hundreds of thousands of people.
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Get your head out of GWB’s butt and remember, drinking a posting is never a good combination.
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SOBER UP YOU LUSH!

Have your birth certificate in your back pocket 2/3rds?
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No?
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Great! We’ll send you to any country that will take you.
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Antarctica is running low on people and a bass playing drunk may be just what they need.

Please do accept my apologies for writing in English with some errors. I do not want to stir anger in certain person but I am French Canadian and, sometimes, my English can be lousy.

I described what i saw and what my son bore out. But hey, if that’s too morbid for an obvious “compassionate” liberal, oh well. Your guys did a job that few have the stomach for, and in the process saved the lives of many coalition soldiers, my son quite possibly being one of them. I’m deeply grateful. Sorry you don’t see it that way but don’t expect that your opinion of me will cause me any loss of sleep.

Lizzy,
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Two thirds brain is the one of, momentarily, two wingnuts (far right wing, highly obnoxious conservatives) posting.
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I, honestly, do suspect that he is drinking fairly heavily before he posts.
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He is a self described bass player for a Country Western Band.
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What’s the difference between a local country musician and a large pizza?
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A large pizza can feed a family of four.
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2/3rds brain just makes enough to buy Jack Daniels and pay for internet service.

With all of that Jack Daniels you are drinking, I doubt that your house catching on fire would stop you from waking up.

2thirdsrocks

That is not the only thing the Canadian forces did or are doing in Afghanistan. However, if that gives you a thrill that makes you sleep blissfully at night, good for you.

Anyway, I still conbsider that people like you are one of the reason why the USA lost respect in the world.

patricksartor

I know. I’ve been reading that blog for years. Sometimes I comment when some go over the edge.

Sometimes I just can’t write:
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“I was a child when this was the campaign in the 1980s and, if nationalism +..”
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I was a child when this campaign was going on during the 1980s and, if nationalism + worker solidarity does not equal enough sales, then I do doubt that worker solidarity for a living wage even without nationalism will do much, either.”
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Yeah proofreading is a good idea.

I lost a lot of sleep until the day my son called and said he was back in the states. I did not say that was all that canada did, you formed your half cocked opinion of me without knowing the first thing about me. I have nothing but respect for anyone who serves in the armed forces in the war against terror. Regardless of origin.

Yawn.

2thirdsrocks

You seem to have respect only for persons who serve in the armed forces in the war against terror, not their country. You forgot something, the armed forces are serving their country.

Quit confusing 2/3s with big ideas. You’ll just get in his way of hating people who aren’t just like him.

I formed my opinion of you by reading what you are writing and you won’t make me feel sorry or guilty because you are incapable of nuance.

ohiolibb

Sorry! Can’t help myself.

I’m a bass player in a classic to modern rock band, who hasn’t touched a drop in over 20 yrs. With all your infinite knowledge on all subjects patsy, i’m surprised you don’t remember. But again I don’t care what you think. Offending blowhard liberals like yourself gives me a slight modicum of satisfaction, not unlike releasing a nice blast of gas after a good lunch.

It’s understandable, but trying to have a coherent argument with 2/3s and ilk is like trying to play chess with a retarded puppy.

C’mon guys lighten up. Recuperating from an appendix operation. Laughing hurts.

Only those who shamelessly bury their heads up B.O’s bunghole can be considered great Americans.
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No, only people who don’t peddle in racist garbage like you can be considered great Americans. There are principled conservatives out there who don’t throw around the term “raghead” like you do.
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But please, by all means, keep saying stupid sh!t like that on online forums like this. With poster boys like you and Racisty, more and more independents will think conservatism and racism really are one and the same.

Not a racist. Just don’t like ragheads who plant roadside bombs and fly planes into buildings.
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Keep screaming that racism thing, it seems to be all you libs really have ‘ey Kevster. And it’s working out really well for ya huh?

2thirdsrocks

Too bad it’s not a vasectomy! LOL

P.S. It’s a joke.

You dropped “raghead” on someone who posted here with the name Abdullah. Hide behind your bullsh!t macho posturing all you want, sad little man, but you are a racist.
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Racism doesn’t “work out for me.” Your side seems to have trouble with it, though. Just go ask Mark Williams who was recently toppled from the Tea Party movement. Yep, no racism there — except for the leader they had to kick out for being a racist.
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Good to see the Tea Party finally boot out some racists like the NAACP asked. Guess the NAACP was right after all.

I get it. Not as think as you dumb I am.

“Not a racist. Just don’t like ragheads who plant roadside bombs and fly planes into buildings.”
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And you know somebody who does like it when airplanes get flown into buildings of civilians?
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You know what I, also, don’t like?
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I don’t like it when Republicans make me pay my tax money for bombs to drop on civilian houses in Iraq. I hate it when Ronald Reagan took a piece of my very first paycheck when I was sixteen and used to help Saddam Hussein buy poison gas to kill Kurds.
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But as long as those civilians are “rag heads” then it’s okay to invade extra countries. If they were white, Christians that would be different.
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Nooooo. Saying that it is okay to drop US bombs in Iraqi residential neighborhoods is fine since they are “rag heads” but killing New Yorkers is a problem doesn’t make you racist, does it?
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Yes it does two thirds brain.

‘you say somethin’ kevie?

“…who hasn’t touched a drop in over 20 yrs…”
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So, you are saying that you did this much brain damage back in the 1970s and 1980s so that you still think this way.
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So, you play some covers of the Alman Brothers in addition to country music?
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That still does not mean that you aren’t a total idiot.

2thirdsrocks

I just wanted to make sure that I was not insulting you. If that insults you, I am sorry.

However, I still consider that, earlier, you insulted the Canadian armed forces and Canada.

“Recuperating from an appendix operation.”
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So it’s the pain killers which make you act so stupid?
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Got it.

“I lost a lot of sleep until the day my son called and said he was back in the states.”
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Then you should have paid his college tuition so that he would not have to have the government pay for it in exchange for, possibly, his life in a war we could have prevented in the 1990s (Afghanistan) or one that we never should have started (Iraq).
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Personal responsibility.

Was not my intention lizzie. I’m sorry that you took it that way.

2thirdsrocks

Just try to have some nuance in your comment. It would really help.

Oh Fatrick you rotund oaf, you do bore me so.

“Oh Fatrick you rotund oaf, you do bore me so.”
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Why do I suspect that you have much bigger than my 40 inch waist?
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Yeah, that’s all it is.
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Where this whole thing about my being so fat came from I do not know.
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When I want to feel skinny, I just walk into a Wendy’s or a McDonald’s and I am the thinnest guy there. If I walk into a Walmart my 40 inch waist makes me look anorexic.

Awesome band, Allman bros. But no we don’t play them. Try pat benitar, and pink, and halestorm. And our favorite, Rush, that unbelievable trio from Canada.
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Sorry to dissapoint you fatsy but we shy away from country, it just doesn’t sell. Tesla from Texas works well and gets the crowd going. And we love it. I take it you’re into showtunes?

At the age of 50 i’ve sadly made it to a 34 waist. Was a 29 when I grduated high school. I like ice cream.

Nope. Not to anyone who matters.

My son paid his own way through 2 yrs. of christian college. He then decided on his own to enlist in the Marines at which time my heart dropped to my stomach. His reason: he felt obligated to serve his country. Was not my doing. You’ve just got it all figured out don’t you patrick?

Yeah,
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Your a deadbeat since he had to pay for a Christian college rather than go to a real college.
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Let me guess that that Christian college is not Notre Dame.
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Deadbeat!

With a two year school I bet he didn’t even get E-3 when he enlisted.
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When I had a 38 inch waist I fit within the Army regulations for weight and got 95 on the exam.
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If you weren’t a deadbeat, he would have had more options.

A brief word about American Exceptionalism:

Have you ever had an acquaintance who thought they were better than anyone around them? Better than anyone at anything, and who proclaimed this obvious superiority frequently and at full volume. How did you like that individual? Care to spend anytime with them, or is it more likely you thought he was an arrogant jerk?

This constant breast beating simply bugs the living s**t out of the rest of the world, and I don’t blame them. I can’t see how it damages our national self esteem one iota to acknowledge the worth of our neighbors on this Earth, especially our allies. We’re going to be better off in the long run making friends, not alienating the rest of the world with overweening, hubristic pride.

(And I’m not some soft headed One Worlder. I love my country and have a deep and abiding respect for its sovereignty. I just don’t have a problem with us admitting a mistake from time to time.)

He went to a christian college because his original plan was to become a minister. Something you despicable libs really seem to have a problem with. I did all I could but hey, I’m poor! Does that make you feel better about yourself patrick? I’m poor but proud, and all i have I paid for with sweat and sore bones. And I’m constantly aware that there are many in this world who are less fortunate than me. If i have 2 dollars in my pocket and i see a man who is hungry I’ll feed him. And I wont ask him who he voted for either. You’re opinion means jack to me, save it. Concentrate on getting a life, obviously you have none beyond your computer screen.

“Just don’t like ragheads who plant roadside bombs and fly planes into buildings.”
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So how do you feel about white, ex-military, rural Americans who hate Democrats and “big government” – enough to blow up day care centers with truck bombs?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

Jesus Christ, this is getting really personal, fellow liberals.
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Is it really necessary to go after this guy this way?
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We’re not making ourselves into heroes by attacking him personally, regardless of what he says.
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My advice is to make him clarify what he believes and what he doesn’t. If his philosophy is wrong and anti-American, it will be apparent to all.

“I’m poor! Does that make you feel better about yourself patrick? I’m poor but proud, and all i have I paid for with sweat and sore bones. And I’m constantly aware that there are many in this world who are less fortunate than me. If i have 2 dollars in my pocket and i see a man who is hungry I’ll feed him.”
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Well, for Democrats being poor means things just didn’t fall together right.
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Every Republican I see here on line tells me that being poor is a lack of personal responsibility.
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I told your buddy Freeinpa that I could not afford to finish college and he attacked me saying that I must have been a failure if I didn’t graduate or didn’t apply for every job under the sun. Hell, I even cleaned out the fuel tank of a ship at a temp service for $6.25 per hour because that was all that was out there.
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If your poor and right wing… You’re like a masochist asking for more punishment.
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I’ll give you some credit for not pretending to be somebody else the way Earl jr1 pretends that he is a doctor when he knows less than I do about medicine (nurses and military medics know more than I do about medicine, I just know slightly more than average and Earl does not).
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2/3rds, your with the wrong party.
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If you want a country with full student loans the way they did when Carter was the president and all a student had to do was sign his or her name to get a loan to cover all of the tuition and get a minimum wage job at a wage high enough to cover food and shelter in only 20 hours per week, you should be a Democrat.
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I have no problem with ministers. The overwhelming majority of them are about doing good things for the poor. It’s the gospel of prosperity right wing ideology posing as religion I have a problem with.

“We’re not making ourselves into heroes by attacking him personally, regardless of what he says.”
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There’s only so long I take the moral high ground.
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Now I can see where 2/3rds stands. He would do far better in many ways with a more liberal government proving better minimum wages, stronger union protection (very possibly the musicians union depending upon his circumstances) but out of some sense of machismo or masochism votes for Republicans and calls us all morons and everything else under the sun.
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I know you hold the moral high ground, but, I think I just learned what makes some of these characters tick far better than regular discourse would.

Rolling Stones
Nirvana
REM
Eric Clapton
The Who
Velvet Underground
The Pixies
The Pogues
Bad Religion

Those are just a few random selections.

No, not show tunes. I hadn’t heard any show tunes since I was a child watching musicals on Television.

Are you of the bizarre and unfounded belief that Democrats are less masculine than Republicans?

It just doesn’t work that way.

What I look at is in how Arabian countries some of the people who get invaded have an Arabian exceptionalism.
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You’d hear these absurd statements that God is on their side and it was they who caused the fall of the Soviet union in the Afghan War and they will destroy the US and break us into fifty parts.
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Obviously I can not accept any of this.
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Then I’d switch channels see some idiot like Bush saying “well, they hate us for our freedom… This is struggle between good and evil (and the US is always good).
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Then I have this strange feeling like I just saw the same idiot twice. One was a religious, confused lunatic bent on destroying foreign countries for political gain and the other one was a Muslim guy.

American Exceptionalism == Douchebaggery on an international scale.
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Also, those who believe in American Exceptionalism, coincidently, believe in Sarah Palin and her idiotic ideas about Real America (TM).

lizziefromcanada:
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Je vous remercie pour votre amitie.
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I used to live 5 miles from the Canadian border in a little town called Oroville in Washington state. The Canadians kept our economy alive. And, I loved going north for great food and friendship.

I think I’ve got it.
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Two thirds is afraid that if Democrats win too often even though people like his son may very likely will have a far easier time getting all of the education they need, people like himself will have better wages and we may very likely have fewer wars to send people like his son, he and his band will accidentally put on a production of the Sound of Music instead of playing rock and on his way to church he will have an overwhelming desire to, instead, begin worshiping Satan.
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I’ve got wonderful news for you!
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First, your taste in music does not change due to who is in office or how you vote. If your band is great at rock, you will never accidentally put on a musical.
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Second, your concept that Democrats do not like clergy or that clergy do not like Democrats is just untrue.
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“Through the first nine months of the year, members of the clergy and religious groups gave $367,000 to Democratic presidential and congressional candidates and committees, compared with $288,000 to Republicans, according to an analysis of Federal Election Commission data by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics. ”
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http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7505.html
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Seriously, if you want to entertain us, send a link to a UTube clip of your band.
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I bet half of the people will like it. (And those who don’t probably will be people who didn’t like the originals, either).
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Keep in mind when your writing to men who are 6′ 2′ and somewhat slimmer and more fit than James Gandolfini (who played Tony Soprano) your whole little thing about calling us “little” this and “little” that just doesn’t make sense unless you are at least 6′ 6″ or taller.
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I’ve voted for Democrats all 21 years I was qualified to vote and I haven’t had any desire to wear dresses or listen to show tunes.

The Arizona law doesn’t require American citizens to carry those “papers” with them (though most probably carry driver’s licenses, which would immediately end that sort of discussion anyway). It does, however, penalize aliens who fail to carry registration documents that federal law already requires them to carry. Lo and behold, all the law really does is enforce federal immigration law at the state level when it comes down to it.
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I figure if that Arizona law is as bad as some people say it is then people wouldn’t need to be constantly misrepresenting it.

wow. late to the party, which is just as well. I’m wistfully remembering when some of the threads on this site were beacons of reason on several sides.

Free enterprise means that one should be able to purchase any product from any vendor at whatever price that vendor is charging.
If a consumer wishes to base his purchase on emotion, so be it. If the consumer wishes to base his purchase on value or quality or convenience, it is his choice.
However, the way things on going with the Obama regime, there are fewer and fewer choices available to consumers. Remember the old Soviet Union with very little on the shelves in stores? That’s what we are rapidly becoming. If any of you “progressive” shut ins ever get out to shop, you have seen what I describe here.

Note that I have followed this whole thread and chosen not to comment.
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Some arguments are simply not worth the effort.
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Observe and learn.

Because everyone knows that I have never gotten into a flame war myself…. ;-}

It’s true.

You confuse pride, a sense of accomplishment, a sense of purpose, and determination with arrogance, narcissism, “breast beating” and vanity. In other words, you are confusing qualities observed in Obama and the good qualities of our country and its citizens. A totally incorrect action.
There is a vast difference between admitting mistakes and bashing and tearing down you own country because you have been taught to hate it from the outside. Obama is not an American, no matter where he was born.

Rico,
Rememeber the pride that cometh before the fall. Jingoism is alive and well…and destructive.

“The Arizona law doesn’t require American citizens to carry those “papers” with them…It does, however, penalize aliens who fail to carry registration documents…”
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Idiots.

The Arizona law doesn’t require American citizens to carry those “papers” with them (though most probably carry driver’s licenses, which would immediately end that sort of discussion anyway)
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Actually, no. In a handful of states, there are provisions that allow illegal aliens to get driver’s licenses, so simply having a license wouldn’t be definitive.
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http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenterse1df

Sorry, Ricardo, but we’re all shopping in the United States — not your United Kingdom — and the shelves are full.

“Free enterprise means that one should be able to purchase any product from any vendor at whatever price that vendor is charging.”
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And nobody is proposing otherwise.
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There is a movement of humanitarians to see to it that people here and abroad can support families at or above the poverty level and the question is will people put their money down for knowing that they are being fair to workers or not.
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You, obviously, do not care about anybody anywhere at all besides yourself.
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“If any of you “progressive” shut ins ever get out to shop, you have seen what I describe here.”
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Since late 2008, as a commercial realtor it is in-my-face, jobs have been disappearing as failed right wing anti-regulation policies have eaten up many of our jobs, but, the shelves are stuffed to the brim with sellers. It’s buyers who are in short supply.
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I don’t believe I have spent more than twelve hours (including sleeping) in my home without going out to a store, a coffee shop or a restaurant in the past ten years. I am absolutely nothing like a shut in.
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How’s life in the asylum treating you Retardomax?

.

“You confuse pride, a sense of accomplishment…”
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Sense of accomplishment: Union victory in the Civil War, Victory in World War One, success against the Great Depression, Victory in WWII, the Marshal Plan preventing the rise of communist dictatorships in Western Europe and the ongoing success of the Civil Rights movement.
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Sorry, Retardomax, these are all things Liberals bring up very often and, for the New Deal, the Marshal Plan and Civil Rights, the right wing, not Liberals, fail to believe in such achievements.
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“…determination with arrogance, narcissism, “breast beating” and vanity.”
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When that sense of determination is to beat down the Arabian world for the sake of cheap oil and failing miserably at getting cheap oil from Iraq while pretending to hold the moral high ground it is arrogance and narcissism and vanity, not authentic determination.
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“Obama and the good qualities of our country and its citizens…”
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Obama has been far more successful than dubbya in foreign policy, so, I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.
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“There is a vast difference between admitting mistakes and bashing and tearing down you own country because you have been taught to hate it from the outside.”
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Who is bashing America besides Republicans calling our unemployed lazy, our minorities criminals and our president every name you can find.”
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“Obama is not an American, no matter where he was born.”
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So, he is not a true Aryan and, therefore, not a true American?
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You, Retardo, are the one who hates America as you hate the government the majority of the people elected.

alright then, thats a good way to argue the point. first, I should say that I do favor another temporary extension of these benefits (perhaps lowered even further), but having a nasty fight over it is important so that people don’t start actually expecting them to continue to be extended, since people do suddenly become much more successful at finding work when their benefits are about to be taken away.
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as for motivation, from what ive read and heard from people, its much simpler than any grand scheme to drive down wages. many really do believe you can’t possibly do any good by any redistribution of weath because you just screw up the market’s incentive system. just about everything i’ve heard ties into that line of reasoning.

we really need to recruit some better conservatives to argue here. I’m trying my best, but so far no luck. all my friends are getting married or trying to get married, so arguing politics isn’t such a priority right now.

I didn’t get much out of your name-calling rebuttal, Sheperd, care to elaborate?
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“The Arizona Law”
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“A handful of states”
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What? I wasn’t talking about how it would be applied in other states, since it’s an Arizona state law…
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I’ve got a question- do you guys and other people opposed to this have a problem with federal immigration law too? Or just that it’s being enforced?

Kev, meant to have this in my last post:
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Even if it doesn’t end with merely flashing your driver’s license, all the cop has to do is run your name through his database out of his squad car…I mean cops are going to do that anyway when they have you pulled over, in order to check for warrants and such.