The Call: Three-Month-Old Health Care Law Gets a Checkup

I was wondering when there would be a follow up since this was the ultimate dividing line between the Red and the Blue only three months ago.

Just like I said, this issue alone will not make or break a Democrat running for re-election, but, collectively, from passing something, the party overall is going to do better than they did in 1994 when the Gingrich era began.

Since it was watered down and weak, if the Republicans didn’t fill their opposition to this plan with lies and make it into a rallying cry, I believe it would have been a total liability to Democrats since it was so weak and incomplete.

Except that perhaps if the republicans had gotten on board with health care reform, maybe we’d have a stronger bill.

Naw. Never mind. I’m living a dream world on all accounts.

Yes, indeed, a three month check up and I would say the prognosis is extremely poor. Costs are escalating precipitously, the myth of “keeping your insurance” is exposed and the negative impact on an already overburdened infrastructure, is yet to be measured. Wait times to see your doctor WILL increase, your insurance premiums WILL go up and all things being said, it is the MOST confusing and disjointed piece of legislation ever perpetrated on the American public. Democrats built it and democrats OWN it. Good luck on escaping the wrath of the American public when the FULL ramifications of this turkey start hitting home.

Do you Democrats not remember that this legislation was crafted behind closed doors, without any Republican input? Hmmmmm?

It is weak and incomplete because the Democrats decided that they knew it all, and now we are all seeing the idiocy of their efforts. This went from Health Care to more of a political power grab than this Independent has ever seen.

This has less to do with Health care, than it does with the sanctimonious Nancy, Harry and the ego brigade in the White House not being willing to share even a small amount of power with the opposition. Give and take is not in the Democrat lexicon, (although I would have liked the Republicans be more accommodating when they had the edge), what I see from the Democrats is foolish and dangerous. This Healthcare bill is awful, from every angle, and if you can’t see that, then you are part of the problem. It is now being shown to be ineptly crafted and unworkable, but that won’t stop you liberated thinkers from telling us common folk that you know better than we.

Remember, Nancy’s “we have to pass it for you to know what’s in it”? I couldn’t believe my ears when she said it! Now that we know what’s in it, as was suspected, it is a complete disaster. Are you aware that “high cost” pre-existing will not be covered? Many “experimental drugs and procedures” will not be practiced because of cost considerations. Sounds just like (or worse) than those greedy insurance companies we were being saved from.

How come Sarah Palin figured this lack of services would lead to the demise of some unfortunate people because of government involvement, (anyone remember “death panel”) and our currently serving government officials didn’t figure it out? Or did they, but decided not to mention it before it became law?

Having voted for Democrats, Republicans and Independents over the years, I have come to the conclusion that I can now pare my choices down by 50%. No more Democrats!!

I never thought you could make George Bush look good, but by comparison, he does!

I’ll stick with HCR, thank you.
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Better than anything the GOP had offered up…

Well said, jim. I am also an independent voter and have drawn the same conclusions as you. Independent voters now view the democratic party with disdain and total mistrust. Obama, Pelosi, Reid and company, flat out lied to the American public and this monstrosity of an HCR bill, is exhibit number one. Liberals will fall all over themselves trying to defend this turkey and its perpetrators, but will fall FAR SHORT of convincing the American public. It is actually quite humorous to watch them get their feathers ruffled and start squawking to beat the band.

Not only can you “stick with HCR”, you, as well as the rest of us are stuck with “HCR”.

I will never understand how Republicans were somehow ‘shut out’ of crafting the bill, considering 1) the bill negotiations started from a compromised position to begin with (otherwise, Obama himself said he would have gone for single payer), 2) the Democrats continued to compromise repeatedly by adding in Republicans additions to the bill in order to entice votes, 3) the bill itself is hardly distinguishable to health care proposals by Republicans about 15 years ago at the very least, and 4) Republicans didn’t exactly foster good faith cooperation with the constant promotion of the ‘death panels’ bullhockey on the floor of Congress itself.
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The only thing that Republicans didn’t contribute to the resulting bill were ‘yes’ votes.

65% of Democrats agree with the post-American Obama, to wit: America Sucks! Big time. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/july_2010/54_agree_that_u_s_is_nation_with_liberty_justice_for_all

Do you Democrats not remember that this legislation was crafted behind closed doors, without any Republican input?
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No, I don’t remember that at all. Because I live on a planet called “Earth.”
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This seems very significant: Senator Chuck Grassley has now acknowledged that the health care bill being debated this week by the Senate Finance Committee was done with GOP input — an admission that will make it tougher for Republicans to claim Dems didn’t opt for a bipartisan approach on health care.
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Grassley’s acknowledgment — which comes after he claimed for some time that he’d been getting pushed away from the negotiating table — comes towards the end of this Washington Post piece on Max Baucus’s latest efforts to revise the bill. Grassley told WaPo…
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“This bill, except for the five to 10 things that weren’t resolved, has been put together with some Republican input,” Grassley said.
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Grassley’s admission reflects the mixed messaging we’ve heard from Republicans lately: While some are acknowledging that Republicans do agree with much in the Dem health care proposals, others say the only way forward is to completely scrap the current proposals and start over again.
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Grassley has gone a bit further here than merely claiming some agreement with Dems: He’s openly acknowledging that the GOP has had “input” into the bill, which Dems can point to in order to argue that they pursued bipartisanship in good faith, even if they were unable to reach bipartisan agreement.

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http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/bipartisanship/grassley-admits-health-care-proposal-has-republican-input/

Remember, Nancy’s “we have to pass it for you to know what’s in it”? I couldn’t believe my ears when she said it!
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Probably because you heard that one line cherry-picked from the rest of the speech by Limbaugh or Beck, right?
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Pelosi wasn’t saying the bill was a secret and they’d let us all know what was in it after the fact. The bill was available — full text, online — for anyone to read at that point.
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That line was part of a larger point she was making about the distortions and lies about the bill, and that once the bill was passed, people would see that all the Republican lies about “death panels” and the rest weren’t in it.
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And despite Earl’s protestations, public opinion on the Affordable Care Act is steadily improving as people find out that Republicans were once again lying through their teeth.

Liberals will fall all over themselves trying to defend this turkey and its perpetrators, but will fall FAR SHORT of convincing the American public.
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http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/06/more_polls_show_health-care_re.html
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The Kaiser Family Foundation is the latest survey outlet to see positive movement on the health-care reform bill. In their May poll, 41 percent approved of the bill and 44 percent didn’t. Their June poll has flipped to 48 percent approval and 41 percent disapproval. That’s the fourth poll in a row to show improving numbers for the legislation

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It is actually quite humorous to watch them get their feathers ruffled and start squawking to beat the band.
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If you projected any more, you’d be working at a theater. Tell me once again how this bill is universally reviled by doctors, despite the AMA’s endorsement.

Textee reads a weird Rasmussen poll that finds 45% of Democrats agree that America really does deliver “liberty and justice for all” subtracts 45 from 100 and gets … 65.
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Your basic math skills are as sound as your sense of history and politics.

See what I mean by ruffled feathers and indignant protestation? Let me explain it to you yet again, little kevie. The AMA represents fewer than 35% of the doctors in this country. I AM a member and I can tell you from first hand knowledge, MOST of its membership were AGAINST this endorsement. You want further proof? Then you and all doubting Thomases should contact your OWN personal physician and ask how they feel about this monstrosity of a bill. You probably wont like the answer, because most physicians, myself included, understand fully well the chaos this bill will create, let alone the escalating cost (no end in sight). Don’t come back with your puny “it will DECREASE” the deficit, because that myth (along with “you can keep your insurance”) has already been dispelled. Little kevie is so dazzled by the rainbow, he no longer comprehends reality. At what point now, kevie, do you start blaming this bogus legislation on Bush? I know you will, so I am waiting with baited breath.

I spoke with my doctor about the bill at my last physical. He absolutely loves it.
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He’s a big believer in preventative care and constantly grouses about people who wait until it’s too late and go to the ER for treatment. And personally speaking, as a primary-care provider, he said he’ll now get better reimbursements through Medicare.
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At what point now, kevie, do you start blaming this bogus legislation on Bush? I know you will, so I am waiting with baited breath.
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“Bated breath,” genius.

And no, I’m never going to put responsibility this legislation on Bush, Earl. This is a massive accomplishment, something that Americans have been looking for since the days of Teddy Roosevelt, and Democrats delivered while Republicans — once again — did nothing but say no, even after the Democrats bent over backwards to get their input.
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More and more Americans like the bill, and more and more will as time goes on. We saw this with Social Security, we saw this with Medicare and Medicaid, and we’ll see it again with the Affordable Care Act.
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Even though former HCR foes like Grassley are out there trying to take credit for the changes people love in the bill, they don’t deserve credit for its passage. Why on earth would I ever give it to them?
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The best part, Earl, is that I know you know all this. I know you realize doctors like the bill, I know you realize ordinary Americans do too. It’s evident in your snide attitude, and the flop-sweat panic of your WEIRD all CAPS typing style.
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You’re on the losing side of history here, and you know it. Republicans are made up of a steadily shrinking demographic of paranoid old white men like you, freeinpa, and 3xfire, while the groups who are demographically on the rise — the young in general, plus blacks and Hispanics, women, etc. — are voting Democratic. Conservative’s time is about up, Earl. And you know it.

As stated previously, little kevie is dazzled by the rainbow and no longer deals with reality. I’m only 37 and I can assure you, my age group feels betrayed by this administration and we will be expressing our displeasure at the polls. HCR is a favorite topic of conversation in my peer group at the hospital and we are almost unanimous in our disapproval of this legislation. Guess what, little kevie ? if doctors do not buy into HCR, it is NEVER going to work! and so far, the vast majority of us; have not. I think people like 3x, feeinpa, newfreedom and jimpinter, have an infinitely stronger grasp on reality than you, kevie. You are one of the lemmings following (blindly and too stupid to know better) Obama off the cliff…good riddance, I say.

I’m only 37 and I can assure you, my age group feels betrayed by this administration and we will be expressing our displeasure at the polls.
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Right, your age group feels betrayed by this president — which is why 57% of the 30-39 age group approves of his performance in office — .
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http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2010/03/obamas_faithful_younger_americ.html
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Listen, Baby Earl, you’re entitled to your opinions. But you might want to grow up and realize that just because you think something, not every doctor and not every person your age thinks it too, before your colleagues at the hospital pass you off to the psych ward.

And on health care specifically, 49% of the 30-to-49-year-old age group considers HCR a “good thing” while just 43% consider it a “bad thing.”
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http://www.gallup.com/poll/140981/Verdict-Healthcare-Reform-Bill-Divided.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=syndication&utm_content=morelink&utm_term=Politics
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Seriously, I think a good psychiatrist could help you with your delusions of omniscience.

It’s hard for this Democrat to diss PPACA but . . . Another of President Obama’s pre-bill “principles” was that he would “build on the system we have.” Sure sounded like a good idea, but as Dr. Oliver Fein, Pres. of Physicians for a National Health Program, noted recently, Congress decided to build on the most costly and inefficient component in our system–the for-profit insurance industry.

If the reform bill had built on our cost-effective nonprofit Medicare model, the monies siphoned off by the executive salaries, shareholder profits, padded administrative costs and convoluted billing processes of insurance companies could be used to improve and expand traditional Medicare, reimburse doctors and hospitals fairly, and cover every US resident. Nor would we be adding a Trillion-plus to our national health care costs over the decade.

Health care costs are rising across the globe, likewise populations are aging everywhere, but our US costs are disproportionately high and rising. I’ve just seen a clear chart from OECD Health Data 2009 showing the percent of GDP allocated to health in several OECD countries 1995-2007 . Needless to say our expenditure far outranks that of democracies that cover all their people.

We are paying more and getting less. When PPACA is fully implemented in 2019, an est 23 million will still be uninsured. As the insurance exchanges become fully operationalized, I suggest that everyone watchdog the choices publicized on HealthCare.gov. Plans considered “affordable” will be skimpy with high deductibles, co-pays and the enigmatic “co-insurance.” Consumers will find ourselves flayed by the mean-spirited concept of “skin in the game”

I expected better of reform–So did a lot of Americans. Kate dislikes polls, but results of a CBS-NY Times poll in Feb 2009 said that 59 percent of those polled responded that “Government should provide coverage.”

“Do you Democrats not remember that this legislation was crafted behind closed doors, without any Republican input? Hmmmmm?
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It is weak and incomplete because the Democrats decided that they knew it all, and now we are all seeing the idiocy of their efforts.”
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It is weak and incomplete because it’s a f*cking “conservative” solution to the private insurance-based disaster that “conservatives”, whether they be corporatist Republicans or Democrats, refuse to abandon.

…Romney played a powerful indirect role in Brown’s victory by persuading Massachusetts voters that they didn’t need the health care reform bill that Brown and his fellow Republicans oppose. How did he achieve that? By giving them a slightly more left-wing version of the same health reform plan four years ago.

http://www.slate.com/id/2242075
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What the f@ck do you think liberal Democrats were screaming about anyway?

Written like a fool at a fair with his fingers in his ears.\
DO NOT give us your story of EVER voting Dem.
You are a died in the wool deaf-dumb-blind republican.
Do you remember anything about the last 10 years.
Iraq war? Not!
Deficit spending? Not.
Well, try this amnesiac, when the republicans were asked for their input on health care they submitted their ideas; the Democrats said OK, makes sense, but the republicans came back and said, “Oh no, we can’t vote on what we just agreed upon”.
Yeppers, you are all hat and no cattle.

“Better than anything the GOP had offered up…”
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To be fair, it’s basically what the GOP has been offering up until Obama and the Blue Dogs actually implemented it.

Three months after it has passed, and I am so incredibly happy this plan has passed. It needs work, without a doubt, but it is a giant step forward. When Social Security was passed, it excluded farm workers as an attempt to keep blacks out of the system. It took years of modifications and improvements for it to become what it is today. The same with health care, but this bill represents a solid foundation.

Incidentally, most of the health care bill does not kick in until 1 Jan. 2010. DUH!
As for earljr. Hey Erl, some more GNOP lies.Check your numbers (as if that would make any difference) You are still looking for WMD’s in Iraq.

I think little kevie is a tad jealous, here. I have accomplished more in 37 years than he will in a lifetime and his resentment shows. Sorry, kevie, you are not very smart (as evidenced by your blind faith in the “chosen one”) My surgical skills are very much intact, my teaching skills, too. I can also distinguish between fact and fiction and this appears to be an area that finds you in serious arrears. My very good friend (and neighbor) happens to be the chairman of our University’s Psychiatry department and guess what, little kevie? He thinks Obama and his HCR plan stinks, too!

To elaborate my point of view to the right wing idiots who keep talking each other up:
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I would, by far, prefer UHC. The rest of the world does.
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As for “death panels” you are full of sh!t:
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To w!t:
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Death panels, real death panels, were in the news for years. They invariably took the form of HCICs deciding to deny coverage to many, many patients. It was almost routine.
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Now?
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When implemented, HCICs will no longer be able to deny coverage.
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I’m fine with that.
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For right now, the reality is that I can add my adult children to my health plan!
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Got it?
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So, in short, it may not have been what I wanted, but it is better than anything the GOP has ever offered!

I suspect you mean 2014, since Jan 1, 2010 has come and gone.

“I’m only 37 and I can assure you, my age group feels betrayed by this administration and we will be expressing our displeasure at the polls.”
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Earljr1:
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ATTENTION:
I am 58. Do not attempt to revise history and resell it. Why?
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There is nothing, absolutely nothing, less credible, an more incredulous, than for someone your age to even attempt to sell someone of my age a “history” that is different from what I’ve already experienced!

Kevin,
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Your data is 4 months old. Remember Obama’s approval rating was at 65% back in March, 2009 and it’s now at 47%. I don’t think that’s an improvement. Right now almost all Independents and Republicans feel he is not doing a very good job.
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I would put more faith in Earl’s views on HCR than all the Ezra Klein [your link] type Left Wing writers out there that have no first hand knowledge of healthcare.

earljr: I have an inordinate, probably oversized, respect for doctors. I consider they have a superior intelligence to make their way to that profession.
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Over time you have made my respect weaken, at least for one doctor. Your constant need to inform comment readers about your superiority is quite off putting. Your need to be condescending (little kevie), making assumptions about other’s success and motivations, and your general support of hate speech is not what I would expect of an educated healer.

If it’s any consolation, apr, my wife’s neurosurgeon and earljr1 are neck and neck in the race for the basement…

I think the real reason earljr1 doesn’t like kevin is that he has a nasty habit of publicly poking earljr1 in the eye with a sharp stick.
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He’s earljr1′s nemesis…

Did you know earljr1, that you are attempting to scare us with what we knew would happen if HCR wasn’t passed!
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I mean, seriously! My premiums already went up even before HCR was passed!

shep:
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It is rare that you and I disagree, but I do so without reservation whatsoever:
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The GOP offered absolutely nothing but obstructionism.
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And, i know you don’t like it, and maybe for the same reasons I don’t, but, in the end, it is better than nothing…

Sorry april and 53, little kevie is dumber than a rock, but tries to portray himself as something else. I have no more time to waste on this exchange, its family time and this is infinitely more important to me than exchanging barbs with the mentally impaired.

Wow, Earl, once again your a$$hole attitude completely demolished the polling evidence I brought to the discussion.
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I don’t try to portray myself as anything, Earl. You’re the one who comes here claiming to be a doctor and throwing around your own personal opinions as if they’re universal facts. You’re the one who acts like an egotistical moron and assumes everyone else is a welfare cheat who’s jealous of you.
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These are the facts, Baby Earl: Lots of doctors are for the legislation. Most people your age are for it too. And support for the ACA has only been increasing over time.
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I’m sorry if those facts make you cry, child.

Here’s the latest poll I could find, from Fox News no less. They’re not as badly biased as Rasmussen, but do tend to tilt a little conservative in their sample. No matter, we’ll use it.
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Obama’s Job Approval:
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Overall 47% Approve 45% Disapprove
Democrats 84% Approve 10% Disapprove
Republicans 14% Approve 78% Disapprove
Independents 40% Approve 48% Disapprove
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Obama’s Favorability:
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Overall: 52% Favorable 44% Unfavorable
Democrats: 89% Favorable 9% Unfavorable
Republicans: 17% Favorable 78% Unfavorable
Independents: 49% Favorable 46% Unfavorable
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/01/fox-news-poll-obamas-approval-steady-support-action-afghanistan/
(Data from the internals, PDF link at address above)
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So … Republicans don’t like Obama by overwhelming margins. Surprise, surprise. But independents are split fairly evenly.

I think, earljr1, given your serious deficiencies in matters Constitutional, fiscal, and historical, I have no doubt that kevin is not the dullest tool in this particular shed, by any means.
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You see, it’s all about those pesky facts…

earljr: You just proved my point. Hit and run arrogance.

“I think little kevie is a tad jealous, here. I have accomplished more in 37 years than he will in a lifetime and his resentment shows. Sorry, kevie, you are not very smart (as evidenced by your blind faith in the ‘chosen one’) My surgical skills are very much intact, my teaching skills, too.”
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Isn’t this the equivalent of a guy trolling chatrooms claiming he’s incredibly handsome and in possession of a huge member (i.e. bald, fat, living in Mom’s basement).
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What’s that adage about intelligence being measured by the company you keep? “If you spend your days with idiots you seal your own fate.”
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And I’m sorry, even if this wanker is a doc, his claim that he voted for Obama is a blatant lie/ex. of concern trollery.
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Socrates said “I know that I am intelligent, because I know that I know nothing.”

I have accomplished more in 37 years than he will in a lifetime and his resentment shows. … My very good friend (and neighbor) happens to be the chairman of our University’s Psychiatry department
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Yes, well, I live next the the motherf–king Pope and he loves the HCR bill.
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But really, how is anyone supposed to believe you’re a medical doctor when you revert back to anecdotal evidence and outright boasting like this?
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If you really have as much expertise as you claim, you should be able to argue your case without falling back on unsubstantiated statements about your personal life.

From Baby Earl: “Let me explain it to you yet again, little kevie. The AMA represents fewer than 35% of the doctors in this country. I AM a member and I can tell you from first hand knowledge, MOST of its membership were AGAINST this endorsement.”

lmao – so Earlyjr1, are you claiming you’re a doctor? Oy gevalt. Ok, maybe you even are, but if so, I’m guessing you’re one of the quacks responsible for a whole lot of the medical mishaps that happen every day in this country, so maybe that’s why you’re so upset at being held responsible for your incompetence as the HCR bill does. So here’s a suggestion, “doc,” get the hell out of taking care of normal people and go practice in Rush Limbaugh’s medicine cabinet, you can’t go wrong with that fat blowhard.

From Baby Earl: “Let me explain it to you yet again, little kevie. The AMA represents fewer than 35% of the doctors in this country. I AM a member and I can tell you from first hand knowledge, MOST of its membership were AGAINST this endorsement.”

lmao – so Earlyjr1, are you claiming you’re a doctor? Oy gevalt. Ok, maybe you even are, but if so, I’m guessing you’re one of the quacks responsible for a whole lot of the medical mishaps that happen every day in this country, so maybe that’s why you’re so upset at being held responsible for your incompetence as the HCR bill does. So here’s a suggestion, “doc,” get the hell out of taking care of normal people and go practice in Rush Limbaugh’s medicine cabinet, you can’t go wrong with that fat blowhard.

Read more: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/07/03/the-call-three-month-old-health-care-law-gets-a-checkup/#comment-178650#ixzz0sfgSrH5b

What hilarity! A bunch of pompous liberals all puffed up and highly indignant….you guys are more fun than the monkey cage at our local zoo. You recognize the hopelessness of your liberal cause and can hardly stand it….oh how I love tweaking liberal noses! Thanks for the amusing entertainment…I really enjoyed the show of ignorance and futility, you should really think about taking this act on the road.

OT, but as if this thread was wroth a sh!t anyway. Tom Tomorrow has a priceless one here:

http://www.credoaction.com/comics/2010/06/sensible-liberalism-featuring-chuckles/

Thank you jimpinter. Very well said and your thoughts are indeed shared by many in this country.

thats how we all should feel over the current healthcare limit the Kill at any cost additude of the Republican Minority.
oh and those interns can sing too.

Dear little kevie says…

“he said he’ll now get better reimbursements through Medicare”.

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Well Einstein, did it ever occur to you that the reason your doctor likes this bill and medicare now? I guess you didn’t realize the “doctor fix” which will pay doctors more money to treat medicare patients was not included in the healthcare reform bill.
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Why was that kevie?
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http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Medicare-fix-would-push-apf-2700343586.html?x=0&.v=2
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The Congressional Budget Office said Friday that rolling back a programmed cut in Medicare fees to doctors would cost $208 billion over 10 years. If added back to the health care overhaul bill, it would wipe out all the deficit reduction, leaving the legislation $59 billion in the red.

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Yea, he’s a happy camper, but the American taxpayer is on the hook yet again for more spending by the Democrats who control Washington.

What a thread.
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Is there anything less convincing than argument by (alleged) biography?
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When does Social Security become insolvent again? Will that be before or after the interest on the national debt is more than the amount of money we take in from taxes?

That’s all you’ve got? Seriously?
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Can we get some smart conservatives in here, please? These guys have all the fight of the Washington Generals.

An example of things to come to America, how Obama-Pelosi-Reid HealthCare Reform will bankrupt us.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/front_page/newsid_10100000/newsid_10100200/10100201.stm
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“Three people, including a pregnant woman, have been killed during riots in Athens.
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They object to their government’s plan to get Greece’s economy back under control.

It includes a freeze on public sector pay, raising the tax on fuel, and cutting pensions (as well as other entitlement programs like healthcare).

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Yes Ladies and Gentlement, hope and change you can all believe in. You may be starving, looking for a job, but yes you can!!
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You can have healthcare by golly gee!!
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Does the new healthcare plan cover malnutrition, or is that only fixed when you go and sign up for WIC?

When does Social Security become insolvent again?
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The current prediction is 2037.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/12/AR2009051200252.html
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I know, I know, another worthless liberal program that can only run for a hundred years before running out of steam. We should probably never try to do anything like it again.

If you think the Affordable Care Act has established anything like the UK’s National Health Service, you’re even dumber than I thought.
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You might as well be comparing the ACA to the World Cup.

Sorry, I usually tune out your posts and saw the BBC link.
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Comparing the American economy to the situation in Greece is about as good though.
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http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/12/are-we-greece/
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That’s from Paul Krugman, so you’ll probably dismiss what he has to say and side with the paranoia coming out of Glenn Beck’s mouth. I mean, really, who are you going to believe? The Nobel Prize winning Princeton economist? Or a manic depressive cocaine addict?

One thing is for sure — wherever Earl works, I’m sure he’s correct that all the people who talk to him share his political beliefs.
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If I worked with an unmitigated a$$hole like Baby Earl, I’d sure steer clear of talking politics with him too.

“Sorry, I usually tune out your posts and saw the BBC link.”

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That is ok, kevie. But for someone who “usually” tunes out my posts you seem to be my number 1 commenter on this site. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
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Yes Krugman is a nobel peace prize winner when it comes down “Trade Theory”. Trading between countries like the United States and Korea, or Britain and Taiwan.
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His theories have absolutely NOTHING to do with healthcare reform and it’s impact on businesses and consumers. If you want to justify your comments, stick to Keynesian Economic theory, and then perhaps you may have a point to make.

Pictures and graphs tell a story of a thousand words. I post this link just for the intellectually challenged folks like little kevie and his side-kick IQ53.
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Gee boys, look how those approval numbers are neck and neck. How the graph depicts the approval and disapproval numbers for your deal leader have steadily but surely closed over the past year and a half.
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Now the question is when will the disapproval line cross over the approval line and continue its move upwards in percentage?
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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html
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Obambi is losing public support faster than any previous President, especially when he started out with some of the highest approval numbers in history at the start.
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Enjoy the graph boys. I can’t wait to read your explanation on this one!!

Are you under the illusion that because someone wins a Nobel Prize in a specific topic of economics, that they don’t know anything about the rest of the field?
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If you want an expert on health care reform and its consumer impact, how about Krugman’s colleague at Princeton — Paul Starr, who won a Pulitzer Prize for The Social Transformation of American Medicine?
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He’s a huge fan of the Affordable Care Act:
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http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=underrating_reform
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There you go. An expert working directly in the field who thinks it’s a wonderful idea.
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Now, you’ve already decided you disagree with Starr — even before reading his piece — so now you just need to come up with your rationalization for why he’s a clueless idiot too.
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I wish I were a conservative. It must be easy already having the answers (more tax cuts! hate the brown people!) and just having to contort yourself into knots to make those answers seem to respond to any question that comes your way.
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It’s refreshingly simple, which must be why it attracts so many simpletons.

Now this graph shows an even dire picture for your dear leader, Barack “the insane” Obama.
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See how the little red line has crossed over the green one?
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Red is for DISAPPROVAL. Try not to get them mixed up, ok?
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http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Enjoy:
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http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/03/yes-obamas-approval-ratings-are.html
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Note the graph that shows just how much of an outlier Rasmussen Reports is.

An old phrase comes to mind that is almost always applicable to politics: “I don’t have to be faster than that grizzly bear. I just have to be faster than you.”
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Simply translated, approval polls and all of that stuff is irrelevant in the end. The bottom line is get enough votes to get what you want passed into law. And when it comes to elections, get more votes than the other guy.
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Until he’s not, he is the President of the United States of America. Deal with it, or move out for all anyone cares, because the bottom line is there is not a damn thing anyone can do about it until the votes make it otherwise. No polls, Limbaugh, or Oprah liking or disliking him will make a bit of difference until then.

Why do comments on blog posts so often go “ad hominum”? I am sure Earljr1, jbk123 and Kevin are intelligent people who care about our country’s problems, but their exchanges sound like middle school trash talk.

We have serious problems to solve. I appreciate a good laugh–or a clever retort but why is there so much personal rage and animosity expressed?

Turn your anger into something constructive.

Tried twice to post link to Booman Tribune post from July 3 on legislative accomplishments of Obama administration. No moderation – just disappeared. If this posts, suggest you look for it.

These comments are delusional!
Already many groups are dumping existing Medicare patients!
Wait times are extending exponentially!
Anyone who thinks medical care in the US will improve under this law is as crazy as Insane Hussein!
ret expat MD: NBME; ABIM; ABNM; ABR w/spec comp NR (never been sued or named in 43 years in medicine)

Newfree, little kevie is the prototypical liberal and will never concede one inch (even when he KNOWS he is wrong) He can always be found here, day and night, so he has no job, is dependent on the welfare state he so dearly loves and is angry with conservatives because we just might burst the fantasy bubble surrounding his ignorant head. I am actually beginning to feel a little sorry for this poor, misinformed soul.

greyhound, congratulations on your successful career and your commentary is 100% correct! Practicing medicine is difficult enough under the best of circumstances and if this law is allowed to stand, it will get infinitely worse. The American public will ultimately be the loser!

“Thank you jimpinter. Very well said and your thoughts are indeed shared by many in this country.”
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Rusty, let me clarify that for everybody:
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No, thank you jimpinter. what you said and your thoughts are indeed shared by some of the most intentionally ignorant people in this country who selectively choose commentators on the right to take incorrect and unclear soundbites to disburse misinformation rather than to think for themselves and watch the news events happen before our own eyes. Please expect to be challenged if you post such incorrect information here.

“Liberty and Justice for all” is such an extremely high bar when anybody thinks about it.
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“For all” not for 99.9999%.
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Has there been one or more persons wrongfully convicted of a crime?
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Yes?
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Then it has not achieved this incredibly high bar truly unobtainable anywhere at any time.
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Add on more serious issues that some people are the descendants of slaves, others descendants of those denied the best work they were qualified for due to religion or ethnicity and so on and nobody could, if you want to answer the question honestly, say any nation in the world will ever fit that standard.
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America is not perfect, but, translate “not perfect” into right wing mud slinging and it gets twisted and garbled into “America sucks”, which nobody said besides Textee.

apr’s comment #7.2 FTW!
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…although earl’s condescension is bigger than the galaxy, he really hasn’t once proven his superiority, esp. his “medical background”. It is relevant since it’s a key part of his “arguments” and he keeps throwing it in our faces. What / where is his mythical private-funded university? His anecdotes lack medical details / jargon beyond anything you can find watching “ER” or searching WebMD. IF he can prove he’s really a chest-cutter now’s the chance to really prove his “superiority” with this gift-wrapped invitation. If he can.

Damn, Earl, you are now one of three people I can call “kid” on this blog.
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When I was a high school senior you were a little sophomore.
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Take into account that I had to enter the blue collar world for fifteen years when I didn’t have tuition money and you spent four years hidden in a dorm room memorizing everything from cranium down to the the golgi apparatus, another four years in residency, I am more like a quarter century ahead of you in life experiences (Patrick +2 years age, Patrick + 15 years in blue collar jobs seeing the way the majority of Americans live and Earl – 8 years due to med school and residency). Basically you have no experiences outside of the classroom to view reality with and it shows, kid.
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Back when I was your age it was 2008, but, when I was your age I had life experiences far more diverse than you can expect to have over the next half century.

earl, what do you know about practicing medicine? You haven’t yet proven it to us – see #7 thread above, it’s still there. Go ahead and write your vague “oh little (fill in name)” rusty-esque screeds if those makes you feel happy but they don’t prove your relevant background or your point.

I know earljr, but I do love to poke sticks at the liberal loons who have recently been rejected by the insane asylums. I am sure kevie is typing away from his new group home since deregulation occurred of those said institutions.
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As a matter of fact, his citing of a five-thirty eight description of approvals and disapprovals to put down Rassmussen was written 3/09, clearly 3 months after Obambi took office. Why not something more relevant and closer to today’s date? Imagine that!
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+ or – a percentage point here or there is basically irrelevant, but to make a claim as he does that Obama has not fallen like a lead balloon is nothing short of living in a fantasy bubble surrounding his ignorant head.
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I have no hope, desire or dream of ever converting one of these freaks from the left. I just hope that someone who may read the garbage posted on here by the left will perhaps get a counter argument in its place.

Hey patricksartor, have you been out target practicing lately? Putting anyone in your crosshairs? Threatened anyone on here lately?

deconstructiva,
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I asked Earl a straight question I knew the answer to from an advanced college biology class regarding kidney stones (which a late relative, not myself, had) and he got the answer wrong answering it hours after I asked it.
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With Dr. Earl and 3X, since they love to flash around credentials without their names nor the names of their organizations (the company 3X was CEO of and where Earl practices medicine) I have asked them for their names and so on.
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I, myself, never said “since I am a commercial real estate agent I know better than you that….” yet am out on a limb (to some extent) by using my actual name.
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I, personally, would love to find a way to click on something about Earl, find out who he really is and then laugh about how much he exaggerates his credentials, but can not do so.
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Bringing up people’s real identity upsets some people who like to remain confidential, but, if your statements are believable and reasonable saying things like “I was a teacher and the way this article describes teaching today is very accurate…” doesn’t make me doubt you or wish to hear more of your credentials. Dr. Earl claiming to have known many conservatives at Yale Medical School was laughable. I had some very good friends who went to Yale and can tell you (as some research for yourself of Yale student surveys I am sure will verify) that finding a conservative at Yale is like finding a nice bar in Saudi Arabia.

Don’t you just love it when a liberal like little kevie will cite a source that basically pounds away at why liberals should not be upset with the health care reform bill because it does not contain their silver bullet, the “public option”
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Starr spends all of his time defending what he knows is a bad bill in his article, and hopes that in the future at some point Democrats will pass additional legislation to include a public option.
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Yea, that is really earth shaking on his part, isn’t it kevie?

Don’t do it earljr. DeconDiva, the self-esteem lacking hackey from the far left is just taunting you to expose your identy so they can then harass you from this point further.
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She and patricksartor, the gun toting lunatic from New York City love to expose people on here and attempt character assinations. Many good people have left this site since they landed like a pile of dog crap in here and stunk up the place.
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Tell them when they link to their own bios, you will be happy to share yours.

You guys are hilarious.
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Confronted with facts, you call people delusional.
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Earl confronted with the fact that he has, first, not convinced one person that he really is a doctor, second, convinced one person that, even if he were, that doctors know half as much about the economics of health care as economists studying health care do and third, not convinced one person that he, unlike my cousin and a few other doctors I met over recent years, is anything like the majority of doctors more than the Unabomber was a typical resident of Montana then calls everybody else in the world welfare recipients.
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Rusty finds out that Kevin found better surveys than he did and then makes a personal attack against Kevin rather than deal with reality. That reality are two fold. First, Obama is greatly more popular than any known or imaginable Republican opposition in the foreseeable future and, second, half of those not approving or disapproving are to his left, not to his right, who will support candidates for congress and the senate more, not less, liberal than Obama.

“…the gun toting lunatic from New York City love to expose people on here and attempt character assinations.”
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I made it very clear that I do not and have never owned firearms and have not even contemplated doing so except when I was contemplating being in law enforcement, so, please take your gun concept, or, if you prefer, your actual gun and shove it up your ass.
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There was one right winger who contacted my workplace yet had so much of is own information online, also under his own name that I tossed it back at him online until, finally, the harassment and criminal threat charges against him stuck and he stopped posting.
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Somebody else helped look for an award 3X said he won and when scratching the surface, the award winner of that award when he said he received it was younger than him and had not founded the company.
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If Earl is a doctor, first, there would be a great deal of ways for him not to be contacted during the work day nor at his home as well as a great deal of things for him to be proud of.
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Instead, he failed one test question I gave him. 0 for 1.. the likelihood of Earl being who he says he is is not high.
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The odds of Earl being high on Meth is high.

So Rusty has claimed that we should listen to Earl because he is a doctor.
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Well, guess what Rusty? Most doctors preferred that a public option be included in the health care reform, just like most liberals:
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Among all the players in the health care debate, doctors may be the least understood about where they stand on some of the key issues around changing the health care system. Now, a new survey finds some surprising results: A large majority of doctors say there should be a public option.
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When polled, “nearly three-quarters of physicians supported some form of a public option, either alone or in combination with private insurance options,” says Dr. Salomeh Keyhani. She and Dr. Alex Federman, both internists and researchers at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York, conducted a random survey, by mail and by phone, of 2,130 doctors. They surveyed them from June right up to early September.
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Most doctors — 63 percent — say they favor giving patients a choice that would include both public and private insurance. That’s the position of President Obama and of many congressional Democrats. In addition, another 10 percent of doctors say they favor a public option only; they’d like to see a single-payer health care system. Together, the two groups add up to 73 percent.

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http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112818960
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You asked for a source who was an expert on health care and its impact on society and the economy, and I gave you one, but you waved him away.
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You said you trusted a single doctor, and here I’ve given you a poll of a few thousand who say you’re wrong again. Go ahead, dismiss them too.
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Or better yet, this is probably the time when you should break out one of your alter egos to agree with you — maybe bring back “rustyreturns” out of retirement? What an effing clown.

his citing of a five-thirty eight description of approvals and disapprovals to put down Rassmussen was written 3/09, clearly 3 months after Obambi took office. Why not something more relevant and closer to today’s date? Imagine that!
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Fine, here’s a takedown they did of Rasmussen’s fundamental biases last month:
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http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/05/blast-from-rasmussen-past.html
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Is that recent enough for you, Rusty? Or will it only count if it was posted in the last hour?

And one from 28 days ago, too.
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http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/06/pollster-ratings-v40-results.html
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Rasmussen is ranked fourteenth most accurate, well below ABC-Washington Post, Survey USA, NBC-WSJ, AP-GfK, Mason Dixon, Pew Research, Gallup, PPP and a bunch of others.
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And yet, for some reason, it’s the only pollster you conservatives seem to trust.

We don’t disagree. I should have said the policies the GOP was offering up until the Bush disaster and two consecutive electoral drubbings drove the Republican base to force Republican politicians to try to live up to thirty years radical anti-government, anti-Democrat rhetoric and abandon any semi-sane policy position they ever held.
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The fact of the matter is that Obama and the Blue Dogs are, on policy, to the right of Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan and I don’t like the legislation precisely because it’s a “weak and incomplete” “conservative” corporatist policy that Obama and the Democrats now “own” and that does practically nothing to address the underlying problem with our health care system, which is industry’s stranglehold on health care policy.

Excuuuse me for butting in with a gratuitous insult, but:
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After this little display of buttsniffing debauchery by Rusty and Earljr1 I hereby declare, on this day of our great country’s 234th birthday:
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drum roll
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Rusty and Earljr1 are collectively slightly dumber than a warm rock on a windowsill!
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sting
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Thank you. You may, of course, return to your regular worship of Sarah The Star Spangled Slut Palin…

If Earljr1 and Rusty got together to found a clinic in the middle of “Real America”, I think we could all be safe.
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Howsomever, if they were to hang their collective shingle elsewhere, we might have to issue travel advisories to the effect that any minority seeking health care look elsewhere…

decon, that may be the angriest post I’ve seen from you. I like it – do more.

it seems to me that there are doctors out there who have a vested interest in what was once the status quo.
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Earljr1′s and this new guys’ commentary is like oil company wonks coming out against strong regulatory action as a consequence of the BP spill.
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All their “creds” do, whether true or false, is bring a cloud of doubt down upon their opinions:
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How much is one willing to risk in a bet that their motivation – and opinion – isn’t driven by money?

Old data yet again, little kevie, 5/09. Tsk tsk. Since Obama’s spending spree it is now documented by the CBO that Social Security will be spending more than it takes in by 2013. With the extra cost of funding, the new predictions are Social Security will become insolvent by 2020.
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Do you know what insolvent means little kevie?
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My best guess, before Obama gets out of office, and spends us into oblivion, Social Security insovency will be the least of our worries or problems. You may be eating the rats that run out from under your group home.

Oh my yes, little kevie. Citing five-thirty eight as your resource of confidence that those liberal loons know anything about polling let alone whose polls are more in line with what the vast majority of Americans think is indeed brilliant.
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Even people who only have a half a brain lobe knows the liberal bias of five-thirty eight. Plus, five-thirty eight is in direct competition with Real Clear Politics for those who consume polling data. Real Clear’s objective opinion of Rassmussen is clearly different and impartial, but then again they are also not as blatantly liberal in their summation of polls.
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From their own website FAQ:
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“What is your political affiliation? My state has non-partisan registration, so I am not registered as anything. I vote for Democratic candidates the majority of the time (though by no means always). This year, I have been a supporter of Barack Obama. The other contributor to this website, Sean Quinn, has also been a supporter of Barack Obama.

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Check it out their statement or disclosure is about halfway down the page.
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http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/03/frequently-asked-questions-last-revised.html

16.7 should have been posted as a response to 17.7.
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Oh, and I did not cite earljr as an expert on anything about healthcare reform. You my little kevie are the one who made that ASSumption. Get it?

I posted from 538, Rusty, because one of the conservatives here — you, freeinpa, or 3Xfire — used to repeatedly claim that 538 thought Rasmussen was an excellent pollster. I was simply using the gold standard one of you used to use.
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Listen, go ahead and believe in Rasmussen. Bet everything you have on its polls, put all your confidence in it. It’ll be hysterical when November comes around.

“Oh, and I did not cite earljr as an expert on anything about healthcare reform. You my little kevie are the one who made that ASSumption. Get it?”
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Earl has implied that time and time again, for the ASSumptions the whole problem is about wing nuts like you ASSumption whole.

Poor greyhound puts one post up and because their criteria was not met, the liberals attack him like a bunch of jackals (showing their usual class, of course) Don’t worry newfree, decon and patrick show classic stalker symptoms and I would not let these clowns ANYWHERE close to my personal life. I would be concerned for my family’s welfare, if I did so. Losers retaliate by attacking and the more personal it gets, the better they like it. Their assumptions about me are from a losers perspective…they are NOT successful and resent like heck those who are. Pretty typical stuff and easily understood. Keep up your excellent posts, Free, you definitely keep these crybabies howling and all of your conservative readers applaud you.

patrick, good points you have there, esp. on those flashing credentials and remembering earl’s earlier kidney stone error. However, given what you went thru with groenhagen, I don’t want earl to reveal his identity, just any medical knowledge / background he claims to have. If he has any he can do that anonymously.

Keep your nose closer to his butt when he farts, earljr1…

Thank you for your kind commentary, patrick. I will keep this in mind the next time you ask me for medical advice.

“(showing their usual class, of course) ”
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“These comments are delusional!”
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If using your patient’s anesthesia weren’t ruining your reading comprehension, only one mild remark was directed at Greyhound despite his joining the debate with the online equivalent of a drunken scream in a barroom.
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You wouldn’t know class if you life depended upon it, Earl.
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I, also, would not be surprised if Greyhound, never seen before, is an alternate handle of yours.

As stated previously, you are a loser now and always will be. Most people put in an honest days work today…not patrick, he sits on his very large butt all day long, bottom feeding on swampland (a typical day for lazy patrick) You are not successful because your work ethic stinks…just hanging out until you can get your next handout, I suppose. You are an embarrassment, patrick, to yourself and to humanity.

Earl,
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You’re a pathological liar who hates being called out on it.
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I didn’t even see this entry until now.
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You have no idea what I do but can find out if you were not too stupid to.
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I called you out on how you claim to be a doctor but got one out of one questions wrong. It was a test. Get a few questions wrong and I know if you do not know what I, as a non-doctor know, then you, clearly, are not a nurse.
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I do not take handouts, sir.
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I work for a living.

“Posted by Earljr1: As stated previously, you are a loser now and always will be. … You are an embarrassment, patrick, to yourself and to humanity.”

Earl, you sound incredibly insecure (assuming that you are not simply mean-spirited). I find it very hard to believe that you are a doctor—not because of your monumental belief that only you are right, but because I refuse to believe that anyone could make it through medical school that arrogant and devoid of compassion and respect for others. God help us all if I am wrong! As an aside, you may be surprised to discover how many of us whom you ridicule have as much education as you claim to have; we simply don’t feel the urge to broadcast it. It’s really too bad, because this discussion thread could be a very useful way to discuss issues over which there are profound disagreements among well-meaning people, were it not for irritating series of ad hominem attacks like yours. Perhaps if you feel the urge to vent again, you could simply write all of your nasty comments in a Word document and keep it to yourself. The world would be a better place if you did so.