Obama Changes Generals

By accepting the resignation of General Stanley McChrystal and replacing him with General David Petraeus, Barack Obama has taken one of the most decisive–and dramatic acts–of his young presidency. But while the fall of Obama’s top man in Afghanistan and the ascension of a military icon sometimes seen as rival to the President makes for a riveting political story, when it comes to the conduct of the war, there is less here than meets the eye.

But first the storyline. Obama made clear today that, although Stanley McChrystal was faithfully executing the White House’s war plan, the conduct revealed by Rolling Stone magazine amounted to insubordination that tests the sacred principle of the American military-civilian divide. The portrait captured by RS reporter Michael Hastings, Obama said, “does not meet the standard that should be set by a commanding general” and “undermines the civilian control of the military that is at the core of a democratic system.” Obama said that he welcomes disagreement within his foreign policy team but that he “won’t tolerate division.”

In taking that stand, and quickly installing Petraeus, Obama should quiet critics who have been mocking him for an allegedly timid approach to the BP oil spill in recent weeks. The change of generals was the firm action of a hands-on executive. And a self-confident one, too, given that Petraeus is widely viewed as retaining sympathies to the Bush administration in which he earned national prominence for leading the Iraq surge. Through Petraeus has spent much of the past year (persuasively) denying that he has presidential ambitions, some senior White House officials are said never to have fully trusted him. But Obama obviously doesn’t feel too threatened by Petraues to hand him such an essential assignment. More saliently, Obama also clearly believes that appointing Petraeus–who as head of Central Command has been closely involved in shaping Afghanistan policy, and pays regular visits to Pakistani leaders–will result in minimum disruption to the war effort.

Can Petraeus turn the tide in Afghanistan? He’s certainly a brilliant military thinker, and helped turn the Iraq disaster into a fragile peace that nevertheless has allowed a gradual American exit from that country to proceed. But it would be a mistake to assume that Petraeus is a miracle worker who can repeat the apparent success of the surge. Afghanistan is a very different country, and much of the American success in Iraq was the product of good luck–the revolt of of Sunni tribesman against al Qaeda, for instance–combined with smart strategy and more manpower.

As for the strategy in Afghanistan, it remains decidedly unchanged. And that is where the drama of the past 36 hours ultimately may have little impact on America’s national security. “This is a change in personnel, but it is not a change in policy,” Obama said from the Rose Garden this afternoon, even as vice president Joe Biden–an avowed skeptic of the counterinsurgency strategy now underway–stood at his side. That strategy has been alarmingly slow to deliver results, however, as recently evidenced by a Taliban comeback in the recently-cleared Marja district and a delayed push into Kandahar city. It’s true that the full complement of troops Obama ordered to the country last year hasn’t even arrived yet. But Obama’s target date of July 2011 to begin draw downs from the country is approaching fast, and Afghan forces are still nowhere near ready for a handoff of security duties.

The vital question facing Obama is how he handles that draw down pledge. If the war effort is still faltering (with a presidential election closing in) will he essentially give up the fight? Double down and send more troops? Split the baby and keep slogging? Those are the fundamental questions that lie beneath today’s stunning personal drama. And regardless of who’s in command in Afghanistan, Obama will have to face them soon.

Update: Greg Sargent has similar thoughts. Fred Kaplan is dazzled.

Related Topics: Afghanistan, Barack Obama, Uncategorized
  • Latest on Swampland

    At CPAC, Romney Stresses Conservative Credentials

    Three days after a trifecta of losses underlined lingering questions about his ability to win over the Republican Party’s base, Mitt Romney arrived at CPAC to allay skeptics’ fears. Throughout his second bid for the GOP nomination, Romney has made his business bona fides the centerpiece of his candidacy. But on Friday, before a packed room at the annual conservative confab, he sought to emphasize the record he compiled in Massachusetts. “I was a severely conservative governor,” he told the crowd. “I know conservatism, because I have lived conservatism.” 

    Romney: I Was A 'Severely Conservative' GovernorHuffPost Politics

    Pablo Martinez Monsivais / AP

    Mired in the Sticky Politics of Health and Faith, Obama Shifts on Contraception

    In the face of mounting pressure from Catholic leaders and politicians, the White House on Friday tweaked its position on contraception coverage mandates in the Affordable Care Act. Rather than require large religious institutions like Catholic colleges and hospitals to provide employees with free health insurance coverage for contraception, insurance companies themselves will have to pick up the tab.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    1) He’ll give it up in a heartbeat if it’s faltering. Support is already below 50% and would get lower if it continues faltering for another 12 months and Obama would be able to see exactly where they are relative to their objectives and be able to sell to the American public why they are having trouble meeting those objectives. The only reason he wouldn’t is if the Republicans are running a National Security hawk with legit military credentials who could call him on it – Petraeus (see point 2) is the only name circled that actually has that. The bigger issue is what he’ll do if some criteria are met but some aren’t – not a glowing success but a sign that Afghanistan could reasonably be fixed within a timeline acceptable to a war-weary public.
    .
    2) Petraeus will not run for office against Obama. His duty in Afghanistan will take him to mid-2011 at the earliest – and realistically through this entire election cycle even if Obama opts for the swiftest retreat possible. If Petraeus gets into the race before Afghanistan is over, now that it’s under his command, he could be criticized for abandoning his post for political gain. Additionally, having been in charge of Iraq, CentCom and now Afghanistan continuously since 2006, he’s even more limited than Palin was viewed as being in 2008 for 2012 in terms of aligning delegates. Again, he’ll be out of the country through 2012 giving him absolutely no time to shore up Primary support. 2016 is the earliest he’ll end up on a ballot.

  • stuartzechman

    Michael Crowley:
    .
    Here we go again:
    .
    Petraeus is a brilliant military thinker who turned around a losing effort in Iraq and produced what remains a peace fragile enough for a planned American withdrawal to proceed.
    .
    Juan Cole on the “surge”:
    .
    http://www.juancole.com/2008/07/social-history-of-surge.html

    Aside from defining what proponents mean by the “surge,” all kinds of things are claimed for it that are not in evidence. The assertion depends on a possible logical fallacy: post hoc ergo propter hoc. If event X comes after event Y, it is natural to suspect that Y caused X. But it would often be a false assumption. Thus, actress Sharon Stone alleged that the recent earthquake in China was caused by China’s crackdown on Tibetan protesters. That is just superstition, and callous superstition at that. It is a good illustration, however, of the very logical fallacy to which I am referring.

    For the first six months of the troop escalation, high rates of violence continued unabated. That is suspicious. What exactly were US troops doing differently last September than they were doing in May, such that there was such a big change? The answer to that question is simply not clear. Note that the troop escalation only brought US force strength up to what it had been in late 2005. In a country of 27 million, 30,000 extra US troops are highly unlikely to have had a really major impact, when they had not before.
    .
    As best I can piece it together, what actually seems to have happened was that the escalation troops began by disarming the Sunni Arabs in Baghdad. Once these Sunnis were left helpless, the Shiite militias came in at night and ethnically cleansed them. Shaab district near Adhamiya had been a mixed neighborhood. It ended up with almost no Sunnis. Baghdad in the course of 2007 went from 65% Shiite to at least 75% Shiite and maybe more. My thesis would be that the US inadvertently allowed the chasing of hundreds of thousands of Sunni Arabs out of Baghdad (and many of them had to go all the way to Syria for refuge). Rates of violence declined once the ethnic cleansing was far advanced, just because there were fewer mixed neighborhoods. Newsrack was among the first to make this argument, though I was tracking the ethnic cleansing at my blog throughout 2007. See also Karen DeYoung of the Washington Post on this issue.
    .
    As Think Progress quoted CNN correspondent Michael Ware:

    ‘ The sectarian cleansing of Baghdad has been — albeit tragic — one of the key elements to the drop in sectarian violence in the capital. […] It’s a very simple concept: Baghdad has been divided; segregated into Sunni and Shia enclaves. The days of mixed neighborhoods are gone. […] If anyone is telling you that the cleansing of Baghdad has not contributed to the fall in violence, then they either simply do not understand Baghdad or they are lying to you.

    Of course, Gen. Petraeus took courageous and effective steps to try to stop bombings in markets and so forth. But I am skeptical that most of these techniques had macro effects. Big population movements because of militia ethnic cleansing are more likely to account for big changes in social statistics.

    “Brilliant military thinking”?
    .
    “Turned around a losing effort”?
    .
    Or simple, easy-to-digest narratives with which the national press corps can enforce an orthodoxy of willful ignorance on a terrible and terribly complex subject involving minor genocide?
    .
    much of the American success in Iraq was the product of good luck
    .
    It could be said that the “heroic story” of Private Jessica Lynch was the product of similar good luck.
    .
    Why do you speak as if you have some authority or special knowledge on this subject, Michael Crowley?
    .
    Your views on the subject seems to derive from having heard these things confidently repeated by your colleagues, not from any particular study or experience.
    .
    Don’t you find a certain lack of clarity in ascribing the reduction in Iraqi civilian violence (from genocidal levels back to merely 2004 occupation levels) first to military brilliance and then to dumb luck?
    .
    How do you know any of these things you proclaim with such certainty, Michael Crowley? Are you an expert on the matter? If you are not, then whose views and analysis are you espousing?

  • Cliff

    much of the American success in Iraq was the product of good luck
    .
    I’m sorry, what success are you referring to?
    .

    The same group claimed responsibility for last week’s strike on the Central Bank of Iraq, the nation’s treasury, in which at least 26 died in a commando-style assault by bombers and shooters.
    .
    In Sunday’s attack in Baghdad’s central business district, suicide bombers detonated two cars packed with explosives outside the bank. A military spokesman said at least 18 people were killed. Iraqi police and hospital officials put the death toll at 28. As many as 57 were wounded.

    Authorities long have feared that insurgents trying to exploit security gaps, caused in part by Iraq’s still-unsettled government, could push the nation toward the brink of civil war.
    .
    Iraqi officials continue to bicker over power-sharing agreements to determine which political faction will control parliament. None of Iraq’s main political groups won a clear majority in the March 7 vote and parliament has met only once since then. Parliament is scheduled to meet next July 14.
    .
    In the meantime, Iraqis’ anger with the stalled government has surfaced in other ways.
    About 100 people protested electricity shortages Wednesday in Baqouba, the Diyala provincial capital, about 35 miles (60 kilometers) northeast of Baghdad. It was the latest demonstration across Iraq in recent days as citizens wilt under lengthy power and water outages.
    .
    A weekend protest in the oil hub city of Basra turned deadly when two demonstrators were killed after security forces opened fire on the rowdy crowd.
    .
    A government spokesman said Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has accepted the resignation of his electricity minister as summertime temperatures reach 120 degrees Fahrenheit (50 degrees Celsius). Spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh said al-Maliki soon would select a replacement to Electricity Minister Karim Waheed, who offered to step down on Monday.
    .
    Many Iraqis get fewer than six hours of electricity each day, despite billions of dollars that have been spent trying to fix the nation’s power grid since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion. Al-Maliki has urged Iraqis to be patient, saying it will likely take up to two years for the electricity grid to be fixed.

    .
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_iraq

  • formerlyjames

    Jumping the gun here? Nothing will quiet Obama critics; Obama himself seems sympathetic to the Bush wars (have I missed something?), let alone Petraeus; no strategy by any power has succeeded in Afghanistan and the current one will fail, too. Finally, on the political front, remember that McChrystal is likely to become a right wing darling and rather than fade away will claim his ticker tape parade as well.

  • shepherdwong

    “…helped turn the Iraq disaster into a fragile peace that nevertheless has allowed a gradual American exit from that country to proceed.”
    .
    Um, FYI, we’re not exiting Iraq. It’s a draw-down to a long-term or permanent presence of 40-50,000 US troops in a dozen or so “enduring bases”.
    .
    http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/168-general/36990.html

  • hellslittlestangel

    I think Obama handled the situation well and explained it perfectly. All class, no drama, respectful to all parties and the citizenry. Have the firebaggers and the right-wingers started trashing him for it yet?

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    There’s 52,000 US Troops in Germany, 35,000 in Japan and 28,000 in Korea. I don’t think you’d classify American operations in either country as being “in the middle of a war” or anything. I do believe that most people in the world would say that the wars in those 3 countries the US has “exited” – a note that is particularly interesting when you consider that there is technically still a state of war between North and South Korea. Sorry, I don’t buy your argument that this doesn’t constitute a US “exit” from Iraq.

  • Cliff

    So we’re up to, what, three blatantly wrong statements about Iraq?
    .
    Or just one blatantly wrong statement that has numerous factually wrong aspects to it?

  • shepherdwong

    “Sorry, I don’t buy your argument that this doesn’t constitute a US “exit” from Iraq.”
    .
    Great. I’ve got some (former) swampland in Louisiana I’d like to talk with you about.

  • stuartzechman

    Presidential candidate Sen. John McCain, Thursday, January 3, 2008:

    Q: President Bush has talked about us being in Iraq for 50 years….
    .
    A:…maybe 100. We’ve been in Japan for 60 years, we’ve been in South Korea for 50 years or so. That would be fine with me as long as Americans are not being harmed or injured or killed. Then it’s fine with me…
    .
    Q: Would you have permanent bases?
    .
    A: If that seems to be necessary in some respects, it depends on the threat.

    http://motherjones.com/mojo/2008/01/mccain-nh-would-be-fine-keep-troops-iraq-hundred-years

  • deconstructiva

    If anyone ponders historical comparisons, Truman canning MacArthur is an obvious pick, esp. Truman’s quote:
    “I fired him because he wouldn’t respect the authority of the president. That’s the answer to that. I didn’t fire him because he was a dumb SOB, although he was, but that’s not against the law for generals. If it was, half to three-quarters of them would be in jail.”
    …and here’s TIME’s own analysis back in 1951…
    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,821524,00.html

  • formerlyjames

    I don’t think that cooperative troop deployment in allied countries is exactly the same as those remaining in Iraq. Or did I miss Iraq becoming a sovereign, independent nation now our ally?

  • billsanford

    obama canned someone that had bad-mouthed him. This is not a particularly flattering event to obama… much less McChrystal.

    The real problem is this: obama has told the Taliban when they can take over… because the United States is leaving. Stupid beyond belief… but that is what obama did.

    Because we do not have the will to win, we should pull out of Afghanistan NOW. Let’s not waste any more lives just for the sake of obama’s political image.

  • masanf

    This article illustrates why Obama’s worshippers are so nauseating. Any time Obama does absolutely anything, at all, it is taken as evidence that he is super awesome and automatically renders all valid criticisms of him wrong. How in the world appointing Petraeus to oversee Afghanistan somehow mitigates the criticisms of his incompetence in handling the oil spill is beyond me. The two things have no relation to each other, at all. That he appointed Petraues does not change his ineptitude in the Gulf of Mexico. It doesn’t take political or presidential genius to remove a man who has insulted you in public on multiple occassions and replace him with a guy who turned Iraq around, a man who Obama claimed was full of baloney just a few years ago, back when Obama was calling the surge a failure.

    Obamabots are a complete joke.

  • formerlyjames

    OK, if this thread turns into another Dudgesludge hangout I’ll be gone. Talk about a waste of time.

  • masanf

    I don’t know what is more lame, somebody claiming that an appointment of a general in Afghanistan somehow renders invalid criticisms of Obama’s ineptitude in handling the oil spill or someone citing Juan Cole in attempt to claim the surge didn’t work. What next, a blog post from Helen Thomas being used as evidence about how bad the Israeli’s are? Give us all a break. Denying that the surge was a success ranks up there with denying the earth is round or that the sun is the center of the solar system. The notion that Petraeus’s strategy didn’t have anything to do with the turnaround in Iraq and acting as if it was all just “luck” is pathetic as it is hilarious.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    It bears repeating that the whole goal of the operation is for the Afganis to take control of their own defense. Without a specific(flexible) timeline there is no impetus whatsoever for that to take place. Karzai would be delight to have US forces prop him up forever but it cannot happen.
    .
    Of course, understanding such things requires above-Neanderthal levels of thoght so it’s unsurprising that certain sorts of people would fail to understand.

  • stuartzechman

    Denying that the surge was a success ranks up there with denying the earth is round or that the sun is the center of the solar system.
    .
    Really?
    .
    How so?
    .
    How do you know this with such certainty?

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    “Great. I’ve got some (former) swampland in Louisiana I’d like to talk with you about.”
    .
    Sorry, I’m not sure I get the reference.
    .
    “I don’t think that cooperative troop deployment in allied countries is exactly the same as those remaining in Iraq. Or did I miss Iraq becoming a sovereign, independent nation now our ally?”
    .
    Well, considering the troop presence is continuing from the end of the relevant wars, at what point (with exception to Korea) in those theaters did it transition to “cooperative troop deployment” authorized by a “sovereign, independent nation now our ally”? Also, considering that the most recent Japanese PM resigned because he couldn’t get the US to close one of its bases in Japan….

  • diecash1

    Why exactly do you keep bringing the Gulf into this discussion? What precisely does it have to do with removing McChrystal?
    ..
    Since you brought it up, what precisely and specifically could Obama have done differently in the Gulf?
    ..
    How would you have handled it?
    ..
    How exactly do you assess all blame to Obama for the Gulf spill? Are there no other more culpable parties?
    ..
    Please enlighten us with your brilliant analysis.

  • apr2563

    stuart: Pundits and opinion writers are idiot savants. They are experts on every subject. They are walking encyclopedias who will opine on anything from A to Z. Of course, they are never wrong. Well maybe sometimes. But will they admit it? No. Will they ever say “I don’t know”? No.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    I would like to note that even in the quoted article, it is implied the surge was a success. Sure, there was a sudden increase in deaths as one side got slaughtered by the other, but your piece explicitly implies that the decreased violence after the surge’s effects had been fully felt had been directly due to the works of the surge and Petraeus. So…yes, I think it would be reasonable to call the surge a success. Whether you’d call it a good thing….

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Pretty much, I haven’t heard a single person make a suggestion that wasn’t tried with sole exception to the nuclear option – which has relatively obvious consequences. Would you care to correct that? If not, would you care to demonstrate why this means that Obama is incompetent?

  • stuartzechman

    forgottenlord:
    .
    I think that Cole’s piece implies more than anything the importance of defining what the word “success” means within the context of a multi-year occupation of Iraq.
    .
    A mini-genocide occurring on our watch, even being assisted by our efforts to disarm one side in an internecine conflict, seems to defy characterization as “success,” at least in terms with which most Americans are probably familiar.
    .
    The other aspect treated by Cole is the bizarrely-named “Sunni Awakening.” There, again, the definition of “success” needs to be carefully considered.
    .
    The “strategy” of massively bribing and arming formerly insurgent Anbaris, for example, seems rife with the likelihood of unintended consequences. It’s like calling the “strategy” of supporting bin Laden in Soviet-occupied Afghanistan a “success.” Sure, Anbar province has been pacified, sure the Soviets have been thwarted, but what have we really done?
    .
    Do we know? I don’t think that we do.
    .
    The press corps’ lazy blanketing of the Iraq occupation under the consensus trope “the surge worked” functions to suppress necessary inquiry into what “success” really means for US interests. Defining down that term allows for political rah-rahs and missions-accomplished, but not for real debate on the question of US goals and their measurements. Easy-to-produce and more-pleasing stories with war heroes meant for domestic consumption seem to be the greatest factor in the ubiquity of this conclusion, not actual analysis.
    .
    As with most narratives we’ve heard repeated incessantly by the political class, repetition does not equal truth.

  • carotexas1

    Well Tweety thinks he has conceded power to Petraeus.

  • nflfoghorn

    Nah, I wouldn’t ditch. I welcome them. It’s comic relief.

  • pintortwo

    citing Juan Cole in attempt to claim the surge didn’t work (is lame)
    .
    Maybe you’ll believe an old Navy guy:
    .
    The surge has been a dismal flop. Iraq’s government and security forces are congenitally corrupt, incompetent, and ineffective, and we will never fix that. Results of the country’s latest purple-finger poll have been rejected by both major candidates for the prime minister slot, violence is on the uptick, and the Obama administration is once again stuttering into the microphone about how American troops may not be able to withdraw from Iraq on schedule. Ray “Desert Ox” Odierno has been making that kind of boo noise since he took command in Iraq in September 2008. In February 2009, Petraeus hagiographer Tom Ricks quoted Odie as saying he wanted to see 30,000 U.S. troops in Iraq until 2014 or so.
    .
    The goal, from the beginning, was to control the strategic location that is Iraq (check on a map, it’s a good place for forward bases), and to secure regional resources- they (the Pentagon) want to stay for as long as we’ll let them.

  • nflfoghorn

    Matthews (1 or 2 T’s?) comes off as one who has all the answers. My goodness, it’s as if he’s the great and powerful Oz.

  • rickburgoon

    Let me see if my limited intelligence gets this right. Its now decisive to accept a letter of resignation? So I suppose that a fast food clerk who takes a Happy Meal order and processes it is now evidence of being a decisive leader? The man RESIGNED. The only thing Obama had to do was…well, simply receive the letter. Naming Petreus was about as simple as asking for a cup of water. Brilliant leader who ran the surge which Joe Biden said would fail and Sen Obama harshly criticized. Obama had his feelings hurt and acted swiftly becasue he did not have to do much of anything. Time has so lowered the bar for this President I swear next they will say the grey hair is evidence that he found the Fountain of Youth and now has the strenght of 10 mere mortals. Seriously, Time needs to change its name to Tepid…

  • nflfoghorn

    Ostensibly, he resigned. Hopefully the other half of your brain knows what really occurred.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Huh, rereading my post, I’m wondering why I didn’t try to put a bit more of a tongue-in-cheek spin on it….

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    McChrystal offering the letter and Obama accepting it is a show of respect between the two individuals for the reputations of each other. However, if you want to get to the crux of what this was, Obama fired McChrystal. ‘Nuf said.

  • pintortwo

    Or you’ll recall, masanf, that the improvements we’ve seen in Iraqi violence, due to the successful surge, were manipulated and dishonest.
    .
    When “a bullet went through the back of the head” of a bad guy, and “Attacks by U.S.-allied Sunni tribesmen” don’t count in the military’s calculations (link). Numbers then trend down. Viola! success.
    .
    The surge was made to make you feel better about our military staying there as long as possible.

  • dpeaton

    The most alarming news in this bit of fluff is that Obama’s senior aides are paranoid about Petraeus running for President, which shows you where they are at.

    McChrystal had to be fired, but he was betrayed. Last August he wrote a report that was leaked to the Washington Post saying 40,000 extra men would be needed or the war would be lost in a year. Here we are 10 months later and he still doesn’t have any where near the 30,000 that were promised. The situation was deteriorating and he apparently realized he was being set up for failure. Plus his men were being killed in greater numbers because the rules of engagement don’t allow them to adequately protect themselves in dangerous situations.

    The ineptitude of this White House in conducting this war is breathtaking.

  • Friar Tuck

    Its now decisive to accept a letter of resignation?
    .
    Dude, Obama cut ‘em off so quickly and surgically that McChrystal probably walked around for an hour or so before he realized they were gone.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Actually, nearly all reports have suggested that the Pentagon, not the White House, was holding the dagger on the troop deployment issue. In many ways, McChrystal and Obama both get screwed by delayed troop deployments

  • carotexas1

    Friar Tuck FTW

  • burrrobson

    I wish, wish, wish I could see an article and just read it and assume it’s written by a real journalist or a neutral commentator, but Time magazine is the opposite in the print media to what Fox news is in the television media. Sigh, no wonder Obama is deemed here as ‘da man’ for ousting the general. Is he ‘da man’ for having his own private Viet Namish thing going on? Oh wait, like Al Gore’s divorce that’s Bush’s fault. Sorry!

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Um….WTF?

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Stream of consciousness hieroglyphics

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    “The goal, from the beginning, was to control the strategic location that is Iraq (check on a map, it’s a good place for forward bases), and to secure regional resources- they (the Pentagon) want to stay for as long as we’ll let them.”

    Thanks Pint!

  • stuartzechman

    I’m wondering why I didn’t try to put a bit more of a tongue-in-cheek spin on it….
    .
    Hey, you got me running a commentary lap…

  • dpeaton

    Even if true, does Obama work for the Pentagon or vice-versa? He’s commander-in-chief.

    Here’s what McChrystal wrote last August:

    “. . . we face both a short and long term fight. The long term fight will require patience and commitment but I believe the short term fight will be decisive. Failure to gain the momentum and reverse insurgent momentum in the near term (next 12 months) -while Afghan security capacity matures- risks an outcome where defeating the insurgency is no longer possible.”

    He wrote that in August, ten months ago. If anyone wonders why his morale was dropping like a stone, it’s because his report, which was 66 pages long, was not taken seriously by the White House.

  • subframer

    Yeah, this is just nonsense, the equivalent of watching Sean Hannity. The surge was, of course, an obvious success. The major point of this article is to blow smoke up Obama’s rear end; the favorite pastime of the MSM, and do difficult in the face of Obama’s mounting ineptitude. But TIME, you can always depend on TIME for political partisanship and journalistic hackery.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Obama is Commander-in-Chief. He can’t do everything for them, just tell them what he wants done and expects the subordinates working for him do their job. To this extent, Robert Gates is the highest ranked official in the Administration that could be blamed – the most Obama can do is go “why isn’t this being done faster” and if Gates isn’t giving him a sufficiently good answer, fire Gates. If he doesn’t feel that he can get better results from someone else or if he feels that the cost of having problems in Afghanistan are compensated for Gates’ ability in other fields of managing the Defense department, that wouldn’t be his natural option.
    .
    The White House took his report seriously. In fact, the reports coming out are that the only reason the Afghanistan review took so damn long is because Obama kept sending back the Pentagon’s plans for deployment with the words “must be deployed faster”. Obama took McChrystal seriously and did everything reasonable to implement it. It falls upon the shoulders of the senior staff at the Pentagon to execute the duties of the Commander-in-Chief and I’ll be shocked if there hasn’t been a lot of pressure going both ways. Problem is, with exception to a handful of individuals at the top (such as Gates), they’re all military. The MILITARY stabbed McChrystal in the back, not Obama. Obama did not intend and repeatedly stressed to the Pentagon that it was not acceptable to have a deployment plan that took this long.
    .
    Learn the facts. Obama should not be to blame – particularly if he has stressed at his national security briefings that he wants the deployment to be on the original schedule. If he’s done that, he’s done everything within the power of a President.

  • sevenoaks07

    All the wise ones never thought that Obama would show MacChrystal the door and bring Petraeus in. This emasculated the Republicans and the wise Washington ones. So: McC has gone into the shadows; Petraeus will once again have to burnish his excellent credentials and the usual gasbags will have to swallow their disappointment.

    Every gasbag was looking for a cave ; Obama delivered a smash hit. Live with it.

    Michael Crowley: what do you have to say since you were waxing ignorant all morning on Starbucks Joe?

  • http://selmas1sunshine.wordpress.com selmas1sunshine

    He deserved to be replaced! With as much military experience he has what made him make such a foolish mistake.

    How can he ever expect real respect from the troops when he cannot seem to respect his superiors!

    A change is coming…great replacement choice.

    Thats how business is done…get rid of the light weight!

  • pintortwo

    forgotten:
    .
    The concept of the “Long War” is attributed to former CENTCOM Commander Gen. John Abizaid, speaking in 2004. Leading counterinsurgency theorist John Nagl, an Iraq combat veteran and now the head of the Center for a New American Security, writes that “there is a growing realization that the most likely conflicts of the next fifty years will be irregular warfare in an ‘Arc of Instability’ that encompasses much of the greater Middle East and parts of Africa and Central and South Asia.” (emphasis mine)
    .
    - “Understanding the Long War”

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    I’m not seeing a connection with the current discussion.
    .
    “the most likely conflicts of the next fifty years will be irregular warfare in an ‘Arc of Instability’ that encompasses much of the greater Middle East and parts of Africa and Central and South Asia.”
    .
    The emphasis isn’t on the words “50 years” because it’s talking about geopolitical realities for the United States in the grand context of the world with, it seems to me, little explicit bearing on Iraq or long-term permanent bases deployed there – other than emphasizing their strategic importance. Am I missing something?

  • shepherdwong

    “Here we are 10 months later and he still doesn’t have any where near the 30,000 that were promised.”
    .
    Maybe that has something to do with the fact that we’re already shredding the exhausted combat forces we have with fourth, fifth and sixth deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan. Anyway, so what? What good would 30K soldiers do to crush a native resistance movement in a country of the size and remoteness of Afghanistan? Ask the Russians: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/afghanistan/cs-invasion.htm
    .
    As far as consciously killing more noncombatants to save more soldiers, some people still consider that monstrous. Not enough to matter, apparently, but some.

  • pintortwo

    Forgotten, I was referring to…

    There’s 52,000 US Troops in Germany, 35,000 in Japan and 28,000 in Korea. I don’t think you’d classify American operations in either country as being “in the middle of a war” or anything. I do believe that most people in the world would say that the wars in those 3 countries the US has “exited”
    .
    and
    .
    considering the troop presence is continuing from the end of the relevant wars, at what point (with exception to Korea) in those theaters did it transition to “cooperative troop deployment” authorized by a “sovereign, independent nation now our ally”
    .
    My link implies (as I see it) that it’s far different from Germany, Japan or Korea. That the military plans for Iraq to be “in the middle of a war” for generations. That there is no intention to “exit” Iraq, but to keep it as a vital link in an enduring network of military bases. There will be no “cooperative troop deployment” but kinetic warfare. That we don’t care about Iraq’s sovereignty, independence, or friendship- only how bases there will enhance our ability to secure these “critical” regions. And as neoconservatives have decided what is “critical”, I think it is safe to assume it refers to the natural resources in that arc.
    .
    Bringing it back home, by elevating Petraeus, Obama must see Iraq the same way, or he doesn’t want to take the heat for making a change.

  • dpeaton

    fl: How about providing a source for all those suppositions? Are you getting that from Alter?

    But regardless, your argument is that it’s everyone’s fault except Obama’s. That’s not going to wash, regardless of how true it might be. If the job’s not getting done or even worse, if the whole thing falls apart, the American people will know who to blame. I personally am appalled at the lack of inspirational leadership. Obama only touches tangentially on why we are in Afghanistan in his speeches. He should be giving rousing speeches to both the troops and the American public if he truly believes in the war. I’ve never seen him give a speech in which he outlines why Afghanistan is important and why we need to fight tenaciously to win.

  • pintortwo

    Here we are 10 months later and he still doesn’t have any where near the 30,000 that were promised. -dpeaton
    .
    .
    roughly a third (of the 30,000 troops Obama promised in December)… is in place.
    (…)
    Mullen told members of the House Appropriations Committee the remainder of the 30,000 will arrive as rapidly as possible over the summer and early fall.

    .
    - http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=58461

  • pintortwo

    “In the period roughly tracking with President Obama’s first nine months in office, the number of Defense Department armed security contractors soared 236% — from 3,184 to 10,712 between December 2008 to September 2009. The number roughly doubled between June and September 2009 alone.
    .
    The new Congressional Research Service report also calculates that contractors in Afghanistan make up between 22% and 30% of the armed U.S. force in Afghanistan.”
    .
    - (link)

  • pintortwo

    You’re very welcome JC. Cheers!

  • stuartzechman

    The surge was, of course, an obvious success.
    .
    No, it isn’t obvious at all, although you’d very much like for it to be beyond question.
    .
    …Sort of like how Saddam’s WMD program was beyond question prior to our invasion.

  • shepherdwong

    “I’ve never seen him give a speech in which he outlines why Afghanistan is important and why we need to fight tenaciously to win.”
    .
    Funny. It took me about four seconds to find this (hint: use teh Google): http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/full-transcript-president-obamas-speech-afghanistan-delivered-west/story?id=9220661
    .
    Are all wingers either pathologically incurious, or dishonest, or does it just seem that way?

  • freeinpa

    This whole episode is a classic liberal cartoon rivaling Dukakis in a tank.

    Isn’t this the same “General Betrayedus” who Soro, Moveon Biden. Reid, H. Clinton called a liar. The same one Biden denounced the surge as foolish and not a workable strategy? The same General Sen. Obama lectured to for a full 7 minutes during the General’s appearance before Cogress on what would and would not work and what a low bar for success he had set.

    Now he is General BailUsOut. Seems like a full menu of stupid was on the breakfast menu at the White House this morning.

  • dpeaton

    I heard the speech at the time. It was a lousy speech. The cadets were falling asleep. He had to defend his deadline for leaving, which was attacked recently by both ranking members of the Senate Armed Services Committee. His reasons were not convincing. We’ve had long term commitments defending European and Asian countries. Why not Afghanistan?

    It was not a speech that sent patriotic young men rushing down to the army recruiter. In fact it probably had the opposite effect.

    When it comes to rallying the nation to war, he’s boring.

  • dpeaton

    I like that. “General Betrayedus” is now “General BailUsOut.”

    Good one.

  • tiggymow

    Its more like a sign of “the Truth Hurts” cause Obambi KNOWS the General was spot on!

    Lou
    http://www.anon-vpn.at.tc

  • stuartzechman

    Why not Afghanistan?
    .
    Because the occupation is not in our interests, is counter-productive in terms of our country’s priorities and threatens US national security.

  • maverick2k9

    “Understanding the Long War”
    .
    I think the Long War strategy should now be officially called the “The Wrong War” strategy.

  • shepherdwong

    “I’ve never seen him give a speech in which he outlines why Afghanistan is important and why we need to fight tenaciously to win.”
    .
    “I heard the speech at the time.”

    .
    So, pathologically dishonest then.

  • dpeaton

    Like a true pathological liberal, you only hear what you want to hear, so let me rephrase what I said: the speech was lousy, uninspiring, and didn’t do what it was meant to do. For a guy reputed to be a great speaker, it was a huge disappointment.

  • dpeaton

    Like a true pathological liberal, you only hear what you want to hear, so let me rephrase what I said: the speech was lousy, uninspiring, and didn’t do what it was meant to do. For a guy reputed to be a great speaker, it was a huge disappointment.

  • paxbob

    Though I voted for Obama with great enthusiasm, I was not charmed by his choice of McChrystal. First of all, from my own army experience, I don’t trust anyone who voluntarily jumps out of perfectly good airplanes and eats perfectly bad snakes. Second, McChrystal was a major cover-up agent when the army and the Bush administration tried to use Pat Tillman’s patriotism to their own twisted ends and hid, even from Tillman’s family, the embarrassing truth of his death by “friendly fire,” one of those great oxymorons that ranks up there with “military intelligence.”
    But most important of all, the subordination of the military to civilian command is as close to sacred doctrine as this country has. McChrystal deserved the humiliation of being relieved of this command. If only it were this easy to pull the plug and get our young men and women out of that totally unwinnable mess.

  • tanboontee

    Political confidence? Hardly.

    Political expediency? Most likely.

    Just wonder why replace the general with his very predecessor that the White House once shunned? Is that not slapping one’s own face?

  • votedemocraticparty

    Who Stood up for General McChrystal?
    I don’t understand a President who says he welcomes debate, but tolerates no divisions on his team
    By William R. Mann
    http://votedemocraticparty.com/?p=957

  • michaelfury

    Why has Rolling Stone now 404ed its 2007 article on E. Howard Hunt?

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/11/17/head-sh0t/

  • 11charlie

    “We’ve had long term commitments defending European and Asian countries. Why not Afghanistan?”

    Those commitments were dictated by the Cold War and the external threats from the Soviet Union, the Warsaw Pact, and North Korea.
    .
    When the Cold War ended, you still had the threat of North Korea to both South Korea and Japan. The continued presence of US forces in Europe is because of operations in the Balkans, Iraq, and Afghanistan. So it’s due to either external threats or because operations far from CONUS requires the use of secure facilities in the Eastern Hemisphere. And the host nations, at any time, can tell America that they are no longer welcome in their country.
    .
    And I remember when I was in the Army, West Germany and South Korea were called duty stations. You were assigned there like you would have been assigned to a CONUS post. In Afghanistan, you are deployed, to conduct operations. We could be there for another ten years, and that won’t change at all.
    .
    Also, when was the last time that the United States conducted military operations in Germany since the end of the Second World War? Or in Japan or South Korea? When did you ever hear about Americans being killed by German insurgents, or Japanese ones?
    .
    If the US stays in Afghanistan for an extended period, I’m afraid we’d only see more men and women get hurt and killed. The British found that out, and so did the Soviet Union.

  • floridajoe55

    Few thoughts from a retired AF SpecOps officer:

    1. Regardless of the truth of what was said, President Obama had to address the McChrystal issue. We simply can’t have the military openly disrespecting those above in the chain of command or you have anarchy. (For those throwing around insubordination — don’t think anything attributed to McChrystal rose to insubordination. Only really dissed VP and an ambassador.) However, he shouldn’t have allowed an atmosphere where his staff felt comfortable openly disrescpecting chain of command. If one disagrees strongly enough, you retire or resign, then go make all the speeches you want.

    2. I smiply can’t understand how these combat warriors would let their guard down in front of a reporter —– liberal, hate-the-war, hate-the-military Rolling Stone?????

    3. I think the Pres should have publicly chastised McChrystal to make it known that kind of disrespect was totally unacceptable. However, with the trust he had with the Afgans, and expertise in the area, the war effort might have been better served leaving him in place. Little side note — looks like Petraeus who was over two war theaters as CENTCOM CO was demoted to take his subordinate’s place.

    4. Finally, if you do have the State Dept undercutting the military commander in the theater, the ambassador should have been called on the carpet too.

  • http://ringwalk.wordpress.com ringwalk

    “…Stanley McChrystal was faithfully executing the White House’s war plan…”

    In every other instance I have heard it referred to as McChrystal’s plan.

  • apr2563

    Remember how often Bush said his decisions were based on the advice of military leaders in Iraq and Afghanistan? In regards to Iraq, he didn’t listen to Shinseki and saw to it that he had early retirement. He didn’t like the advice from Tommy Franks and replaced him with George Casey. He was replaced by Petraus.
    Under Bush, Afganistan was led by McNeil, then McKiernan, and McChrystal.

  • pintortwo

    Still a lot of comments touting the success of the surge- well it depends on how you look at it.
    .
    There’s no reconciliation between Iraqi sects, the government can’t legislate, the Kurd oil dispute is unsettled, the recent election are dubious, the “decrease” in violence was due to number manipulation (see link @ 2.8) and violence is actually increasing (link) :
    .
    Gunmen… ambushed 10 police and army checkpoints across (Baghdad), killing as many as nine soldiers and officers and wounding two dozen…
    .
    Bombings soon followed in Falluja, Samarra, Tarmiya and Suwayra… On Monday evening a bomb struck in Mahmudiya, and three more exploded in Basra… killing at least 20 people…
    .
    The worst attack occurred… in Hilla… More than 150 people were wounded. An earlier blast struck a police patrol in the city, killing two.
    (…)
    By nightfall, Monday (May 10) had turned into the bloodiest day of the year, surpassing the death toll from a series of bombings at Shiite mosques and neighborhoods last month.

    .
    But, as a PR move, the surge is a complete success, as evidenced by the number of comments touting its success.

  • pintortwo

    Anyone interested can read the memo from Col. Timothy R. Reese (Chief of Baghdad Operations Command Advisory Team) describing the failure of the surge and Iran policy in general. He suggests we declare victory and go home.
    .
    - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/world/middleeast/31advtext.html?_r=2

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    I think you’re missing crucial elements
    .
    The bases in Japan and Germany were built in large part because of the “threat” of the Soviet Union more than they were about securing an ex-enemy. When we consider it from that perspective, the activities in Iraq are analogous. However, I don’t think we’re in disagreement that it is a strategic decision to keep bases in Iraq.
    .
    What we are in disagreement of is interpretation of what that means. Does this mean that they are “in the middle of a war” as you put it. The purpose isn’t for active combat within Iraq. The purpose is for support for the general region. Similar bases already exist in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia – and forces from those bases and the bases themselves were used for staging purposes in Iraq (and possibly Afghanistan though I can’t recall for sure). Ok, those forces aren’t NEARLY at the kind of numbers that will remain in Iraq, but the strategic relevance is more similar than it is different. The purpose isn’t to continue fighting in Iraq – at this point, the armed individuals in Iraq aren’t actually looking to shoot Americans. Unless the soldiers are given patrol orders to keep the peace (I think unlikely and certainly I haven’t read anything to suggest otherwise), then the parallel would be exactly the same as it would with other nations we hold bases in.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    dpeaton: I’m not saying everyone other than Obama is responsible. I’m saying that Obama has done what, IMO, is the most his office can perform and he has demonstrated consistently that he is in favor of McChrystal’s assessment and done his work. My source is Joe Klein’s regular reporting on what he’d been able to determine. When Obama initially rolled out his intentions with Afghanistan, they were given 6 months to deploy – 6 months are over. He gave them an objective, they told him they could do it, and they didn’t meet their objective. Now, explain to me how a CEO would handle the situation if he told a department “I want this task completed within 6 months, can you do it?”, they replied “It’ll be done” and 6 months later it wasn’t done. Is that the fault of the CEO or is that the fault of the guys in the department who didn’t get it done? He has to be able to rely upon the guys who run that department to ensure that the job gets done. He HAS to, especially when he’s working with several departments including that very same one to get a lot of other projects done (y’know, Health Care, Economy, Gulf of Mexico, GitMo, Immigration, Environment, Iraq, Iran, Israel/Palestine, Pakistan never mind the normal run-of-the-mill duties that he has to be aware about and make decisions on).
    .
    I’m not saying that everyone but Obama is responsible. I’m saying that it’s someone in the Pentagon holding the knife. I’m saying that the knife is equally in McChrystal’s back as it is in Obama’s.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Also, if you think Obama should give a speech on it, why don’t you draft your own speech of some sort. Give us an idea of what you think it should say. I’ve done that a few times when I’ve felt that the speech he gave was just wrong so if you feel that the speech was wrong, show us how it’s done.
    .
    If you don’t think you can do it, go away. There’s enough serious issues here. Obama doesn’t do rousing, Obama does intellectual and inspirational. It’s not his style and if there’s one thing that’s been proven, if you do something that’s not your style, you come off as false. He gets your heart going with his way of approaching problems and how he thinks about them, because you feel like he’s being honest with you and he’s thinking the problem through. That’s not rousing for those who are more oriented towards action.
    .
    I’d rather Obama be himself. And apparently, no matter how much the media ranted that Obama wasn’t angry enough, when Obama went and tried being “angry enough”, they just went and called him fake. It’ll be the same thing for this speech.
    .
    Moving on.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Huh, apparently the wingnuts feel that humility is a trait to be scorned.

  • pintortwo

    Forgotten, I think the difference we have is that I believe, and the link supports this, that Iraq is intended for active warfare. Not necessarily in Iraq itself, although it is possible, but as a pivot-point for anywhere in the “arc of instability”. And that the military, prior to invading Iraq and building bases in Afghanistan, had every intention to be actively fighting and nation building for the next 50 or so years. My own belief is that it is for economic reasons, not national security (at least not directly- the neocons believe that once the network of bases are built and unfriendly nations toppled, peace will materialize- we just have to kill many first).
    .
    IOW, have you heard the statement “we should just bomb the hell out of the Middle East, turn it into a parking-lot, and take the oil”? Well, that’s basically become our foreign policy.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Ok….now I’m really confused. Apparently we’re saying exactly the same thing. However, I still consider it to be ending combat operations and having withdrawn the troops from Iraq if they are now in the enduring bases but you don’t. The reason I consider it a completed withdrawal is because they actually aren’t being used, at the point where the “withdrawal” is complete, for combat. Whether the next Neocon President will use them for combat purposes (as, we both agree, had been intended by the Cheney group) is irrelevant to Obama’s campaign promise to withdraw American troops from Iraq – the enduring Iraqi bases are part of the American global strategic landscape and therefore maintaining a presence there would be, in my mind, no different than maintaining a presence in Germany. Sure, the strategic element is “economics” not “national security”, but it is still “strategic” and therefore legitimate.
    .
    I guess I simply see the issues as two different things and two different political points: one is continuation of the War in Iraq. The other is the maintaining of the “American Empire”. While I’m not a fan of the latter, I’m not going to claim that Obama failed to end the War in Iraq because he continued the maintain the Empire even though he did end the war element.

blog comments powered by Disqus