More on McChrystal

Why would you replace McChrystal with one of the very circle of insubordinates who expressed those incendiary quotes? How can Rodriguez be trusted?

Where do all these alleged “counterinsurgency experts” come from? I don’t recall the U.S. fairing too well in the counterinsurgency dept. in recent history.

the military leaking campaign to force him into the major troop escalation
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…enabled by our virtuous press corps and its limitless anonymity-granting policies.

I invite you to make sure you’ve read the other comment thread before you decide that it’s not vital that the chain of command and the UCMJ prevail. The notion that everything would be great if we just free to bomb the pi$$ out of everything is a major driver of the current debate.
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Stated another way, If Obama doesn’t stand up to his own Generals, how’s he ever going to retain the respect of the rank and file?

I think the real problem is that counterinsurgency may be the wrong approach to Afghanistan however well it is applied. A COIN strategy requires a heavy troop presence and is in many ways an occupation, and we already know how the afghans respond to those.
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The better solution may be to work with the locals and give them the support they need to stabilize the situation, this includes being ready to negotiate with the Taliban in a substantiative manner, not necessarily conceding control but in effect bribing them to change sides. This has been done before and was done when US special forces helped the northern alliance drive out the Taliban in the first place.
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If we cannot put a soldier on every street corner we should enable the afghans to defend themselves. This could be done with a minimal US troop presence. The Special forces assisted Northern Alliance victory was engineered in part by only a dozen or so US special forces. If we could recapture this approach there is a good chance of stabilizing the country.
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The one thing we have to be willing to accept is that Afghanistan is unlikely to turn into a full fledged modern democratic state anytime soon, we need to reevaluate our goals and perhaps shoot for a semi-democratic nation that will support the US some of the time.
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There that’s my rant, make of it what you will.

it is rather amazing that RS seems to be siding against COIN and McChrystal’s rules of engagement, an unprecedented effort by the United States to conduct a war in the most humane possible manner.

That is not how I interpreted the article. Hastings was addressing the practical challenges of implementing COIN and more humane rules of engagement, but I can’t imagine anyone reading that article and deciding that the solution is to fight in a less humane way. It’s pretty obvious Hastings was implying that getting out of there or some version of CT-plus is probably the best choice among a terrible set of options.

On a very interesting note, it was just a few weeks ago that the top Canadian General in Afghanistan was sacked – in his case, getting to friendly with a subordinate.

Seems to me the whole group of them need to be removed, with McCrystal fired and the rest reassigned.

Because this post of mine and another could be seen as pro-Hastings and pro-Rolling Stone, I should add that I’m very critical of Hastings in light of that GQ piece he wrote about covering the 2008 campaign. He came across as remarkably superficial in his analysis of the campaigns and issues. I just don’t see any evidence that he is calling for less humane rules of engagement.

What makes you think that Obama garners any respect? Where have you been? I am still closely tied to my military brethern. There is nothing but raw contempt for this person. As someone who has been in the military since 1972, I have never seen disdain for a commander in chief at this level. Carter was never heated this much!!
McCrystal’s speaking out is not without historical context or merit. Trust me, flag ranked officers are not under the UCMJ as privates are. McCrystal will not go to the brig or be placed on latrine duty. He will be relieved, as I have stated.
Obama is the dog that has finally caught the firetruck.

He won the prize and has no idea what to do with it. If he had any moral standing, he would resign, admitting he is in over his head. Of course, that would leave us with bumbling Joe.

Andrew Exum, one of the smartest counterinsurgency experts around, lays out the case for and against firing the General.

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Exum makes another point, about my old alma mater, Rolling Stone: it is rather amazing that RS seems to be siding against COIN and McChrystal’s rules of engagement, an unprecedented effort by the United States to conduct a war in the most humane possible manner. I agree that the writer doesn’t seem to know all that much about COIN …

WTF!?!?

Pork–I think those comments came from McChrystal’s personal aides, a group of that doesn’t include Rodriguez, who has a staff of his own, works and travels independently, except for the morning Commander’s report meeting, when the entire hierarchy gets the dail sitrep.

Not sure if this has already been said on one of the other related threads (too many comments to read all), but my take was that this was an intentional move by McChrystal. I don’t think this was a gaffe, it was very well planned. He has achieved his 2 main objectives, namely
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(i) he told the truth like he saw it, and
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(ii) he will most likely be fired, thus being excused from the burden of what he and many others already saw as a certain failure in Afghanistan.
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He has a win win situation here, and the Obama administration has a lose lose situation. If Obama fires him, he will have the serious task of replacing him, and if/when the war fails, there will always be the lingering question that the outcome could have been better with McChrystal. If he does not fire him, he is seen as a wuss, retaining the services of the general who has stated publicly that he does not have too much confidence in him as CinC. Forget the apology that came later, the general has serious issues with the Obama defense team, and now he is going out with a bang. Obama and his team have to clean the horrible mess that will be left behind.
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Just my take …..

Agreed.
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Of course, this is the problem with putting someone in charge who don’t (or shouldn’t) trust.

Yup, that was pretty much my take as well.
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http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/06/22/mcchrystal/comment-page-1/#comment-175845
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If true, it’s an astounding act of egotism on McChrystal’s part.

springerrider, you and your military “brethren” may feel comfortable (maybe even proud) of expressing “raw contempt” for the President of the United States, but all you’re really doing is showing raw contempt for the uniform you wear and the nation you’re supposed to be defending.

It sure is hard to believe it’s a gaffe. I’m not sure how you get to be general without a minimun brain and a smidge of diplomatic and political ability, BUT I guess he is not the 24 hr general and military man that was described in the first piece of the day if he is willing to fail in this way. No mistake, in military terms it looks like a very awkward, FAIL within certain terms. Now, if he just wants a good paying nice job with some partcilar…nameless…company when he gets out, maybe this was a good way to achieve that. Me, I just have to wonder, is he cagey beyond all means and concerned only about his future or is he the great general who just is apparently suffering from male menopause.

Try to do same at least once talking to your boss.
Just try iot and watch, what happens next.

p.s. Why I have never read any military general giving interview abroad?
Actually – anywhere?

That is social life, not ,ilitary , right?

Not everyone is Flattening Stanley…Karzai hearts McChrystal.

Karzai’s spokesman said: “The president strongly supports General McChrystal and his strategy in Afghanistan and believes he is the best commander the United States has sent to Afghanistan over the last nine years.”

Joe Klein:
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This is typical of the rightist commentary in your thread below:

These kids are over there dying so you and your family can sleep safe tonight.
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Are you ready for failure in Afghanistan? Are you ready for six dirty bombs to go off simultaneously in six cities across the US, shutting the country down for months? Are you ready for the shelves in your grocery store to go bare, gangs in the streets openly looting for food, and complete chaos.
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That is what the next act of terrorism will look like when we walk away from Afghanistan without victory.

Ordinary people don’t know why we’re occupying Afghanistan, Joe Klein.
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Sometimes they’re inclined toward the popular right, in which case New Democrats like you are allowing their apocalyptic, bed-wetting fantasies to go unchallenged, and are setting the stage for the next “the left stabbed the military in the back” story to take hold in troubled economic times.
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Sometimes they’re inclined toward the popular left, in which case explanations like this one, from your colleague, the spy-novelist David Ignatius

One reason our Afghanistan strategy is so puzzling is that people don’t have a clear picture of what the United States is trying to achieve through its mix of military and diplomatic action. We know from political science studies that when a strategy becomes fuzzy, political support vanishes. This was true in Vietnam and Iraq, and it’s now happening with Afghanistan.
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The Silk Road study tries to visualize the kind of Afghanistan that might exist after U.S. troops begin coming home in July 2011. Instead of being a lawless frontier, this post-conflict Afghanistan would be a transit route for Eurasia, providing trade corridors north and south, east and west.
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To make this transport-led strategy work, Afghanistan would need to build more roads, railways and pipelines. A hypothetical railway map shows routes that connect Iran with India, Russia with Pakistan, China with the Arabian Sea…
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I first heard discussion of this modern Silk Road idea from Ashraf Ghani, a former Afghan finance minister. He made a powerful analogy to America’s own development: What secured our lawless Wild West frontier was the transcontinental railroad in 1869. With trade and economic growth came stability.
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Asian nations understand the benefits they could gain from transit links across Afghanistan. Take the ring road that links Afghanistan’s biggest cities; the United States has pumped $1.8 billion into this and other road projects since 2002…

are infuriating for the willingness to embrace nation-building, government spending, jobs-creation, a commitment to a national transportation infrastructure vision, complete with real capital to build it –the entire liberal domestic program for productively getting our country out of its economic misery– just as long as the nation being built isn’t the one in which majority of Americans live and (would like to) work.
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That Ignatius is so obtuse as to believe that Americans will get behind the billions needed to even have a chance at building a nation in Afghanistan once they hear careful explanations of how the other Asian countries in the region would benefit from such infrastructure commitment isn’t particularly surprising, because it’s representative of the perspective of a political class that exists insulated from the consequences of the policies they advocate.
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What’s so incredible is the astounding degree to which you, Ignatius and your colleagues in the Serious Foreign Policy Community have lost touch with Americans during these troubled times.
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How can anyone who is even remotely aware of the (completely reasonable) economic fear and insecurity gripping a furious public write

The American public is tiring of an Afghanistan war that lacks a clear strategic framework.
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..if we think less about “clear and hold” and more about roads and railways, maybe people in America — and Pakistan, India and China, too — will understand better what’s to be gained from a more stable Afghanistan.

with a straight face?
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“Roads and railways?”
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Over there? Not here, where we need them the most…where we need the jobs that these projects provide to get us through the shockwaves of the greatest financial collapse in 70 years?
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You see, that’s just not going to wash with anybody who lives outside of your Beltway cocktail party circles, despite whichever Af-Pak/Pak-Af semantic games seem cleverest to you and your colleagues at the moment, Joe Klein. Ordinary folks out here might not have met the esteemed former Afghan finance minister at a casual summer get-together, but we’re at least bright enough to see that the obvious analogy isn’t the f*cking “wild west”, it’s to Amerca’s lack of infrastructure development at home, where trade, economic growth and stability are sorely lacking right now.
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Someone needs to sit down and explain to Ignatius, the New Democrats and those who think like this that no, nobody in America needs to hear about how “this Silk Road study is so valuable,” and that no, it doesn’t “explain the longer-term mission that U.S. troops are serving in their battles in lawless areas of Afghanistan” to anyone.
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Someone needs to explain to our elite policy commentators the reality that there are only two competing views in in the minds of the American public, one exemplified by

Are you ready for the shelves in your grocery store to go bare, gangs in the streets openly looting for food, and complete chaos

and the other by

In 2009 alone, after many billions of dollars had already gone into the construction, expansion, and maintenance of US bases in Afghanistan, American taxpayers were called upon to pay for more than $1 billion in construction contracts—and based on the evidence at hand, including those future options, this may prove just a drop in the proverbial bucket.
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All of this has been happening without a clear plan laid out in Washington for the future of US military operations in that country, without a legitimate national government in Kabul, and of course with no shortage of infrastructural repairs needed at home.

That is the framework the current President and Congress are operating in.
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If the Obama Administration wants to further cultivate the betrayal fantasies of movement rightists whilst further alienating a citizenry rightly concerned with their own futures during hard times, he will promptly sack or humiliated the brave, truth-telling General, and continue an unexplained, incomprehensible, out-of-touch “strategy” of nation-building abroad and unemployment benefits cessation at home.
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There are enough of us liberals out here to blunt and perhaps stave off the rightists’ calls for honor-revenge now, but you are losing time you can’t afford to waste, Joe Klein. I’m not writing this stupidly large amount of copy because I have nothing better to do, I’m doing so because you need help, you need assistance in understanding just how precarious this line the Administration is walking is.
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Do you yourself and your comprehension of the situation in America a favor, Joe Klein, and read through the popular rightists’ responses to your post “McChrystal” below, reminding yourself that these are real people, with real homes and families.
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Then consider whether the Af-Pak or Pak-Af (or whatever you’re calling the justification for that enterprise these days) sufficiently takes into account the situation at home. Consider that a majority of the public support for the occupation comes from a third of the population –tens of millions of people– who are convinced that, if we “fail” or are “defeated” in Afghanistan the sum of all their apocalyptic fears will come true. Consider that most opposition to the occupation comes from people whose lives have been made much worse during the years since the invasion, and who prioritize the government’s actions a bit differently than you and your colleagues.
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Just think about these things, Joe Klein, and then think about whether you want to legitimize the fear-mongering and honor-offense of the popular right through your continued cheer-leading of the occupation, or whether it’s time to start advising the Administration publicly, in print that it’s time to get back to basics, and start solving problems at home…now.

Thanks so much for responding to commentary, Joe Klein, it is always greatly appreciated.

Having read the article, it seems clear that McChrystal has to be fired, not just because of the comments in the article, but because he allowed the situation to develop in which Hastings had this much access.

Apparently Hastings had been granted interviews (don’t know how many) but then because of the volcano grounding flights Hastings had access for more than a month. It sounds in the article that McChrystal sort of forgot there was a reporter around, even though Hastings said he has tapes of most of what is reported in the article, and that he otherwise had his notebook in his hand. It sounds as if McChrystal knows this, since he’s apologized for the poor judgment in allowing the profile.

The fact that McChrystal has fired the press aide who arranged the initial interview suggests he understands that he wasn’t protected by this aide, and he surely knows that he behaved in a way that didn’t protect his chain of command, and he’ll be fired.

He does not actually sound like a person “in control,” as I read the article. There is no evidence whatsoever that routinely sleeping 4 hours out of 24 promotes sound decision making. He sounds like he’s crossed well over the line between confidence, even arrogance, and the narcissism that clouds perspective. After all, he expressed disappointment that the President didn’t seem to know enough about him when they met. “But enough about me, let’s talk about you. What do you think about me?”

In truth, what he has done which can’t be excused is jeopardized the mission and the troops by behaving in a way that pretty much requires the President to fire him. It’s difficult to see how this insubordination can be tolerated. And the President has been put in the wretched position of having to decide which is worse for the mission – letting the COIN move forward with its architect, or letting a renegade general get away with misconduct.

I’m inclined to think Obama will accept the resignation.

I read the RS article on-line. McChrystal comes off as OCD crazy – the one meal-a-day, 9 mile run, four hours of sleep stuff. While there’s a lot to admire about him – his courage and commitment to those under his command, there’s also his checkered history, especially the Pat Tillman business.

He seems like a classic military narcissist as evidenced, in part by the cringing sycophancy of his staff. He pretty much got his way and then slags those who backed him in the press. Ultimately a threat to the republic.

His appointment was a horrible mistake, solely Obama’s responsibility.

Here’s a little irony for you. One of McChrystal’s aides is quoted of saying about his first one-on-one with Obama:

“Obama clearly didn’t know anything about him, who he was. Here’s the guy who’s going to run his f…ing war, but he didn’t seem very engaged. The Boss was pretty disappointed.”

So here’s McChrystal handing over his career to a reporter from Rolling Stone. Wonder what he knew about him.

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Or there’s this:

“I’d rather have my ass kicked by a roomful of people than go out to this dinner,” McChrystal says.

“Unfortunately,” he adds, “no one in this room could do it.”

I wonder if Obama will resist the obvious rejoinder to that one.

Anyone who has actually served in the military would know that this is not a close call. McChrystal and the members of his staff who made the insubordinate comments MUST be punished. They must be either discharged or busted in rank.
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McChrystal’s office comes off sounding like a frat house rather than a military command. That his staff thought that they could get away with calling the vice-president “Bite Me” (to a reporter!) is astonishing to me. That kind of behavior has never been tolerated in the military. I certainly never saw behavior like that during my enlistment, and no one I served with had any respect at all for the president who was in office at the time (Tricky Dick).
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If Obama thinks that McChrystal’s continued service is important, then he should bust him. Take away one of his stars. Turn the colonels and majors in his office that were insubordinate into majors and captains (or make them stand before a court martial).

“This is typical of the rightist commentary in your thread below…”
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I just heard their leader, Rush Limbaugh, explain that “the way you win wars” is by targeting civilians, a la Dresden and Nagasaki. Obviously, these people aren’t fit to live with other human beings, no less influence foreign policy in any fashion.

Stupid O’Bama,gets into office an allows all the Bush appointed hacks to stay.
America has only one military business being in the far east—straighten Israel out.
Swamp lands are infested with alligators. Any of the Un-informed CNN Posters dare to learn un-biased facts? Go to WRH–you’d learn something of importance, your country is the biggest terrorist country.

“The boss was pretty disappointed”….. Well, General McChrystal, You are one of MANY dissatisfied constituents who share this sentiment. Obama (the unqualified) has proven time and time again, his inability to manage ANYTHING except his teleprompter. His flowery rhetoric (with the help of his trusty teleprompter) is just that…flowery rhetoric promising all things to all people and then delivering nothing…nada…squat! The left wing gets all breathless in trying to defend this empty suit, but his record (or lack of) speaks for itself. This egotistical pretender is leading this country into bankruptcy, our foreign policy is a joke and the hard, indisputable fact remains…61.4% of Americans think this country is headed in the WRONG direction. So much for leadership, Gen, McChrystal, our great leader?, would have trouble navigating his car out of a parking lot. You deserve better than having this man determine your fate, sir and I (and most Americans) wish you well.

I did both national service and stints abroad over a 5 year period. Knuckleheads who think they know it all because they “served” are precisely the people who need to be disciplined. One can have all the contempt for Obama; but he won an election and the rules call for one to take orders from one’s CinC. If one does like that then get out of the army. It is a volunteer outfit. We don’t need unthinking and prejudiced knuckleheads.

“infuriating for the willingness to embrace nation-building, government spending, jobs-creation, a commitment to a national transportation infrastructure vision, complete with real capital to build it –the entire liberal domestic program for productively getting our country out of its economic misery– just as long as the nation being built isn’t the one in which majority of Americans live and (would like to) work.”

This, a thousand times, this. Nation-building for thee, but not for we?

Would it be “political suicide” to suggest removing a significant portion of our 60,000+ troops from Germany or 40,000+ from Japan?

Joe

This is something beautiful to prove that America still leads the World in many ways and regardless of differences that we sometimes have.

http://ikejakson.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/to-honor-america/

It is yours to deal with as you wish. I am sure the authors meant it to be passed on to every name and place that you can think of.

I was at West Point with McChrystal and even then he was arrogant and dismissive of his classmates. He has very carefully crafted his self-image as a warrior-intellectual. However, he is a dime store Petraeus. His foreign policy credentials are razor thin as he spent time at Harvard and the Council of Foreign Relations as a fellow not a hard-working student-scholar. Obama’s mistake was to be fooled by this fabricated veneer and not realize that Special Ops soldiers can be difficult to keep on the team.

I pray that Rodriguez is not the chosen successor. A capable officer but he lacks the breath to run such a complex theatre like Afghanistan. Unfortunately, we can’t get Eikenberry to suit up again.

Joe Klein: A humane war. Isn’t that a oxymoron?

I don’t think the “horrible mess that will be left behind” will be any worse than the horrible mess Obama is faced with now. Obama needs a general who is not trying to shove a knife into his back and he cannot appear to be weak here.

If Obama sends McChrystal packing and brings in a new Afghanistan commander that brings the possibility of new hope. One thing seems sure to me – McChrystal’s situation is untenable and he simply cannot stay on. The UCMJ is very clear on this.